Was Larry Johnson's contract worth it?

by ryan vb @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 2:42 PM CST

From the diaries. -- Chris

Hi cross state football fans. This is Ryan, aka VanRam, from SBNation's Rams site, TurfShowTimes.

No, I'm not here to talk smack about the prestigious Governor's Cup. I'm here with a question about a certain RB's hefty contract.

Steven Jackson's current contract is set to expire after this season, and there's a debate emerging as to whether or not he's worth the kind of $$ he'll likely command. Larry Johnson's contract from 2007 is the most obvious comparison, so I wanted to gauge fan opinion about the deal.

Do you feel that LJ's contract was worth it? Clearly there was no way to know that he'd suffer a season ending injury, but that's always a risk in football. A contract like that will impact a team's salary cap quite a bit. Do you still feel it's justified given the other needs the team has to address? Anyone here share some of the theory explored in this article that team's shouldn't tie up resources in a star running back?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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RE

My advice would be...

Don't give huge contracts to overworked running backs. I know the "Curse of 370" is an unprovable abstract idea. But at some point the correlation gets creepy.

by Chris Thorman on Jan 17, 2008 3:14 PM CST reply actions

Yea they

seem to think they do not have to make contact, or try as hard. Ya know it seemed like LJ did not run nearly as hard this year.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 3:24 PM CST up reply actions

Not worth it

I'll admit it, at one point I was a fan of LJ's contract.

However, further research by myself shows that RBs are a dime a dozen. Was Priest that great? Was LJ that great? Umm...well behind our line, ya they were that great. The key to everything is the offensive line.

And Chris brings up a great point about the curse of 370. It's not scientific by any means, there's no explanation for it, but most backs don't come back and perform well after hitting that landmark number. I don't need scientific facts or other explanations to tell me that past history scares me on this one.

Steven Jackson is a bit different though. He's so important to your offense specifically. Catching the ball out of the backfield, pounding it, etc. I would just be a bit worried about your offensive line situation. He's going to take a beating next year (even if you get Jake). He wasn't even healthy this year, which isn't a good sign at his age.

Also, with the Rams at least, you guys are in a similar boat to us. You won't be legitimate contenders for a couple years. You need to use that time to build your offensive line and defense. Let's say that takes 2 years (which is being generous). That's 2 more years of pounding the football (probably moreso in the next few years considering your WR corps aren't exactly, um, young), 2 more years of abuse on his body. If, big if, he makes it through those couple years, and you do build up your offense and defense and become legitimate contenders, then you've got a Steven Jackson who has a lot of wear and tear on him and approaching 30 years old (believe he'll be 25 by the time next season starts, so add 3 years of rebuilding to that and he'll be 28).

Optimism certainly wouldn't be the word I used to describe that situation (hey, kinda like the Chiefs...)

by Joel Thorman on Jan 17, 2008 3:27 PM CST reply actions

Also

running on turf doesn't help at all!

by Joel Thorman on Jan 17, 2008 3:30 PM CST up reply actions

I am

more pleased with the way Kolby ran as opposed to LJ he ran with power when he had to, has the elusiveness of Priest Holmes, expect big things from him with a good line!

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 3:37 PM CST reply actions

Well I for one

would like to point out that the lack of effo....

*MAWK is thugged from behind, duct tape wrapped around his mouth, and dragged to parts unknown. In his place, the hooded conspirators have placed a clone, Herm Edwards Was Right, Dammnit, or HEWRD.

HEWRD: Well, I for one think that you have to pay running backs what they're worth. You can't predict how a player is going to perform. Your biggest concern should be making sure that they are committed to you in the long run! If there are any problems, just blame it on an O-line that's older than most forests! Pile on the money! Also, Chan Gailey is swell, isn't he? You play! To Win! The Game!

Not criticising Herm Edwards for anything since December '07.

by Ridiculous Matt on Jan 17, 2008 4:04 PM CST reply actions

Maybe it's just me

But when you say HEWRD out loud, doesn't is sound eerily similar to Huard?

MAWK, is your affinity for Huard coming back into play?

by Joel Thorman on Jan 17, 2008 4:17 PM CST up reply actions

I JUST

Hope duct tape is not cutting of circulation to the brain he sounded a little out of sorts.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 4:23 PM CST reply actions

Hmmm...

L.J. is worth the money if we also spend the money to give him a decent O-line and coordinator, which we've done one of two.

I say Jackson is definitely worth the money. Backs like Action Jackson and No. 27 are hard to come by. Three of the four teams left in the playoffs have Pro Bowl-caliber RBs: Barber, L.T. and Maroney. You have to have that kind of threat to open up the running game.

- Adam

ArrowheadAddict.com

by arrowheadaddict on Jan 17, 2008 4:34 PM CST reply actions

Barber?

He retired.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 4:36 PM CST reply actions

Marion Barber

975 yards and 10 TDs. Not bad, but certainly not Pro Bowl caliber*

Gets more carries now. Those yards were only on 200 carries.

*Yet

by Joel Thorman on Jan 17, 2008 6:01 PM CST up reply actions

Maybe I misunderstood

but Marion Barber is with the Cowboys I know this. The cowboys are no longer in the playoffs. I thought he was talking about Tiki.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 6:35 PM CST up reply actions

Ryan Grant

of Green Bay impressed me fumbled twice in the first 4 min forgot about it then took off for 201 yards!

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 4:40 PM CST reply actions

The offensive line IS important

but it is not everything. I don't believe for one second that you can take a good line and put anybody at RB and end up with a great HB (yes, the Donkeys could put practically anybody back there and they would get 1,000 yards, but how many of those backs were consistent Pro Bowlers, or will go to the Hall of Fame? And 1000 yards helps, but not like 1800 does). I am not saying that LJ or Jackson are worth the kind of money we're talking about, but they are among the better backs in the league. Take Kevin Jones from the Lions and put him behind the Chargers line and see if he rushes for 30 TD's...

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 17, 2008 4:42 PM CST reply actions

LJ

cannot do anything without a good line, bet he misses Dickie V now!

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 4:45 PM CST up reply actions

L.J.

Will be back next season. A lot of Chiefs fans are going to eat their words.

And Marion Barber made the Pro Bowl this year. Look it up.

- Adam

ArrowheadAddict.com

by arrowheadaddict on Jan 17, 2008 6:31 PM CST reply actions

Only if

he runs with the effort he showed prior to last season. He used to run people over, I can think of plays where he was pointing out people to block then he ran out of bounds to avoid contact.He needs to watch tape of Marion the barbarian to learn again how to apply the hit! Not to mention learning how to block!

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions

come on

L.J. missed training camp and it obviously hurt him. Edwards stated several times that he is a Pro and he will get it going. Because he missed trainging camp, he was out of football shape. His mistake was, he thought he could work his way through it. No one factored in the fact that the O-line was going to get so old so fast. Once this happended, you could see that L.J. was not running as hard. To his defense, he is an emotional player, so when the O-line failed to produce holes for him to run through, he got frustrated and gave up. Now, some can argue that this is no attitude for a pro, but we need to keep in mind, L.J. was coming of a monster year. I think we need to wait until th 2008 to make a judgement call on L.J.

by newfan on Jan 17, 2008 7:21 PM CST reply actions

He has

nineteen million guaranteed, he should at least try when the holes are not there. FORTY-THREE million overall he does not deserve that he is not a overall top of the line back, good runner he is. Look at how many shots our QB's took due to not being able/won't block.Look at Marion The Barbarian how aggressive he is, he does not make that money.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 17, 2008 8:26 PM CST up reply actions

In the most simple terms

Absolutely not. LJ got his contract and his signing bonus and he's laughing all the way to the bank.

Since the negotiations started, I have been exceptionally cynical about this kid -- injury or not. I do not think he has the passion for the game or any concept of teamwork. Period.

When I think of what we could have done with that chunk of the salary cap...grrr.

by gritsnyc on Jan 17, 2008 8:09 PM CST reply actions

wow

that's a pretty interesting set of reactions. I'm surprised to see that most of you think it was not worth it.

for the record, I tend to agree. after watching enough Chiefs games this season too (I live in Springfield, MO) they look like they could use an o-line almost as bad as the Rams, and i think that's where the money should really be invested, also since the QB is kind of an investment too. and we do know you've got to have a decent one of those...right?

by ryan vb @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 18, 2008 8:25 AM CST reply actions

Jury is out

behind a bad o-line with no protection who knows.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 18, 2008 8:28 AM CST up reply actions

The question was

Was Larry Johnson's contract worth it?

To him - Absolutely
To the Team - Jury is still out
To the Fans - Absolutely Not

I have always thought that position players contracts should be simpler.

They are payed the League minimum as a base plus 10% each year they play in the League.
Negotiate the percentage or a flat rate for each category of performance they achieve in a single year.
Add 5% for previous years performance to each offensive category if those expectations were met the previous year.
Bonuses are paid through a negotiated sum between games played, started and playoff performances.
Injuries do not count against you other than you do not get money for non performing. You still get your base plus the longevity.

Isn't that what most of us are paid through, a performance based salary? Can it get more fair for the fans? Because when its all said and done, its our money isn't it?

by Lanier63 on Jan 18, 2008 9:56 AM CST reply actions

I love the idea Lanier

but the NFLPA wouldn't let that happen in a kajillion years.

by Tom Bahali on Jan 18, 2008 11:22 AM CST reply actions

In hind site

I was one of those fans who agreed to pay him the money at the time. Roaf and Shields retirement was not on my radar at the time. As a fan at the time, it was the right thing to do. Law's signing was very similar in that he was a fan favorite at the time. This past year's performance by both players sucked and I now take a position that while we're rebuilding, we need to not mortgage the franchise with Free Agents. In addition to the performance measures laid out by Lanier, we need an "exit" clause for poor performers who don't hit targets. Thats puts a squeeze on guarenteed money. I do blame Larry's injury on his hold out and not being football ready, but I'm also hoping he bounces back to his old form and becomes a leader for this youth movement. Larry, Pictures in Las Vegas are not helping your fan base!!!!!

by KC Fan in LA on Jan 18, 2008 12:13 PM CST reply actions

I don't think you

can blame LJ's injury on anything but it being a freak accident. How does conditioning help your foot not bend under the pressure of AJ Hawk twisting you down?

by Chris Thorman on Jan 18, 2008 12:20 PM CST up reply actions

Roaf retired before Larry signed, I think Shields

did as well.

by Tom Bahali on Jan 18, 2008 12:19 PM CST reply actions

I think that he meant

no one had an idea that our line would suck as bad as it did, even without Roaf and shields...hell, LJ gained almost 1800 yards with Jordan Black at left tackle (mostly because he just ran up the middle behind Waters, Weigmann, and Shields).

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 18, 2008 1:12 PM CST up reply actions

Why is it

LJ needs such a fabulous line to get paid? Would he deserve the money more if he did these things without hall of famers?

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 18, 2008 2:57 PM CST reply actions

The only sample we have of LJ

is behind a good line. He played well for the 1 1/2 years he was the starter. So, judging from past experience, you could make a case that he deserved the money (b/c we expected him to do the same thing year after year...oops, we were wrong).

by Joel Thorman on Jan 18, 2008 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

We are

not always going to have hall of fame lineman. That is what leads me to believe the line makes the back.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 18, 2008 5:26 PM CST reply actions

Georgia Frontierre

Rams owner has passed away at 80. It appears the Rams will be going through the same transition the Chiefs just went through. Well good luck to the Rams through a rough time within their organisation.

by Eric @ Arrowhead Pride on Jan 18, 2008 9:49 PM CST reply actions

LJ will return to greatness

I know this is true. He cares to much about the history of great running backs, and his name not being one is motivation enough for him. With a new LT and RG with D Mac moving to RT, I see Larry running for 1700 yards and 18 TD's next season.

by Tom Bahali on Jan 18, 2008 11:07 PM CST reply actions

I didn't realize

our line would be playing as bad as it did. Could have been the scheme, but in either case, LJ's injury (in my opinion was related to the number of carries the year before, the hold out and little in the way of run blocking. I hope and am counting he'll bounce back but I think we all agree he needs line support.

by KC Fan in LA on Jan 22, 2008 12:08 PM CST reply actions