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The Worst Game of the Season for the Kansas City Chiefs

NFL.com

I can confidently say that I don’t think we’ll see a worse performance by the Chiefs than yesterday’s loss to the Broncos at Mile High. Jay Cutler and Selvin Young both individually had more offensive yards than the Chiefs did as a team. Bronco receiver Brandon Marshall nearly topped the Chiefs’ 129 total yards with 115 yards receiving. Of the Chiefs’ twelve drives, eight were three and outs. This one is going to sting for a long time.

The Offense

132 passing yards. Nineteen yards lost on five sacks. Three turnovers. 1/13 on third downs. Sixteen rushing yards in seventeen attempts. Two drives that went beyond three plays.

Hands down, this was the worst game of the season for the Kansas City Chiefs’ offense.

Brodie Croyle was 15/29 passing for 132 yards. Kolby Smith rushed thirteen times for twelve yards and briefly left the game with an ankle injury but returned. Tony Gonzalez, also injuring his ankle but returning, caught seven passes for 76 yards and patiently scored the team’s only touchdown of the day on a fifteen yard run after the catch.

That touchdown capped off the only positive showing by the Chiefs’ offense. The drive began at the beginning of the second quarter and lasted 8:51 on fifteen plays. On that drive, the Chiefs converted three fourth downs, of two, one and twelve yards. Croyle was 5/8 on the drive and was sacked twice. In a game that was almost unbearable to watch, the Chiefs’ second quarter drive was downright impressive. Playing with desperation that we’ve rarely seen, the two short fourth down conversions were made by the Chiefs bullying their way across the first down line with power rushes.

After a Chris Terry false start that moved the ball back to the Bronco fifteen-yard line, Brodie Croyle swung a pass out to his left side to Tony Gonzalez. TG cut towards the sideline, cut back to the middle of the field while Bobby Sippio blocked a Denver defender and tight-toped the sideline all the way into the end zone.

After that drive, the Broncos gave the ball back to the Chiefs after scoring their third touchdown of the half. With the score 21 to 7, the Chiefs had the ball with 1:55 left in the half. Forty-four seconds later, the Broncos had the ball back in their hands after Dustin Colquitt’s fourth punt of the first half. After a huge Selvin Young run put the Broncos in Chiefs territory with less than a minute left, Denver was able to easily get in position for a Jason Elam field goal.

It was 24 to 7 and the game was pretty much already over. The Chiefs had some pretty good field position in the first half and were unable to do much beyond the one touchdown.

The Chiefs didn’t score again and only gained thirty-four net yards in the second half.

The Defense

Unfortunately, there isn’t a "But the defense held them in check" story here like we’ve typically had. The Broncos racked up 453 in total offense. Jay Cutler passed for four touchdowns and 244 yards. Selvin Young rushed for 143 yards. In the first half.

On the second play of the game, Selvin Young rushed to the left side for fifty yards. You could see the rest of the game laid out from there. We were doomed from the start and everyone knew it. I held out on the doom thoughts briefly after we scored that touchdown. But the Chiefs didn’t do much from there to garner applause.

The defense looked completely flat. There was something different about our defense on Sunday. The energy wasn’t there. The desire wasn’t there. It was almost as if, as many of you have already said in the comments, that the defense quit. We didn’t hear Jared Allen’s name called. We heard safety Bernard Pollard’s name called quite a bit, mostly because he was making tackles on Selvin Young and Brandon Marshall in the secondary after big Bronco gains.

There was failure in every single facet of the defense. From the defensive line to the secondary, the Broncos completely dominated.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I’m trying to look for positives from yesterday’s blowout but I’m not finding any. Our normally stout defense was torched. Our normally feeble offense was, well, just that. Except worse than usual.

The Chiefs have been on this losing path for a long time. This game was the culmination of many of our problems and not just on offense. We’ve been overlooking our poor rushing defense for most of the year and Selvin Young and the Broncos exposed us for who we really are on the defensive line.

After being eliminated from the playoffs with this loss, next year is officially on the table for discussion. After going 4-3 to start the season, the Chiefs have lost six games in a row. The Tennesee Titans travel to Arrowhead this week and I’m already looking towards that game.

Yesterday was embarrassing.

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Herm's new catchphrase?
"Well, obviously our defense is our strength" (added emphasis on the 'g').

Well, last two games I'd say no, our defense soiled the sheets, and our only strength was that the laws of physics and the NFL rulebook dictate that the clock keep moving and the game finally ends.

How about we play to this strengggth: if you don't block someone you're fired?

/still angry.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 9:23 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

I was pleased with the no huddle offense...
UNTIL, until, I realized that Denver's D was basically in the grade school football formation of trying to time their running starts at the quarterback, because NO ONE was going to touch them.

"Look at that Svitektion out there!  It's like the French army swinging pillows in bubble-wrap armor!"

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 9:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How about
if you do not prepare your team, you are fired!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 9:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

They
were timing each other to see who could get to the QB fastest!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 9:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

That's a panic move
And maybe you didn't know this, but Herm's not a panic guy.

Seriously though, there's a lot of heads that should roll before Herm's thought cough SOLARI cough

Get a new O-coordinator, get an O-line, give Croyle another year, then if we're still 4-12 demand his head on a pike.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 9:33 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Worst game in how many years?
I've gone back to 2000 and I can't find a worse loss. Not just by points-  we lost 45 to 7 last year to the Steelers- but overall. Even in our bad losses over the last few years we have a lot more yards.  

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 9:38 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

What
can we honestly expect with Croyle, and Kolby, a win? In other words, neither has proven their worth in the league.
oO Buckeyes Oo

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 9:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know they haven't shown much
But you're willing to write them off after so few games?

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I
have a new nickname for Croyle, who was the first guy you had to fight on Tyson's punchout, thats it!!  Just my opinion, I don't like Croyle at the helm of my Chiefs, he hasn't proven anything positive, and he's had the reps and gameplay!!

What's the excuse now, somebody, anybody, hell Parade?

oO Buckeyes Oo

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 9:40 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Come on
Croyle has only started three games behind one of the worst offensive lines this franchise has even seen.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 9:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

the history of the NFL is littered
with strong armed qb's who failed to develop, for whatever reason.

by sm7600 on Dec 10, 2007 9:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said to D Thomas
You're willing to write him off after only three games?

That's insanity.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 9:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's just say
there's no reason to withhold the opinion.

by sm7600 on Dec 10, 2007 9:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He
may develope over time, but I don't think he will last very long as a starter. Another big hit or two and he Will shatter!!! I'll stick with my opinion on this topic.
oO Buckeyes Oo

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 9:56 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Where I agree with you
is that he may get destroyed with our offensive line.

On another topic, if we get a a high enough draft pick, do you take a QB? Are you that unimpressed?

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 9:58 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

In all honesty
I don't know that anyone with the organization is capable of finding a competent NFL qb in the draft, and developing that person

by sm7600 on Dec 10, 2007 11:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No QB could thrive in this offense
This is coming from the guy that defended Huard to his last breath.

I think we are seeing now that it doesn't matter who is at the helm.  The offense is rotten to the core.

Plays are being called by an Offensive Coordinator who should not be an OC. He isn't inventive with his playcalling and does not have that instinct for knowing the right time to strike and the right time to switch things up.  I honestly think Solari looks at his call sheet and says "Well we've run it three times, so I guess we should throw a pass in there".

The offensive line is a shambles.  The backups are even worse.

There is no true fullback on the team.

Eddie Kennison has never gotten back in the groove from being injured and Bowe and Webb are inexperienced and still making mistakes.

Remember in preseason when Huard got hurt and we all talked about how bad the offense looked when Croyle was running it?

We all know now that it wasn't so much that Croyle wasn't handling it.  It was that the offense had completely decayed over the off season.  It didn't get any better with Huard at the helm.  Huard didn't win the job.  He got it by default.

Croyle can develop into a great QB.  Or he could not.  But one thing is for certain.  With the offense we have this season, NO ONE can honestly say from what we've seen that Croyle can't be a big time QB... or that he can.

Drafting another QB would be THE MOST STUPID THING that the Chief could do.  Because it doesn't matter if Peyton Manning or Johnny Unitis in his prime take over the team tomorrow, this offense isn't scoring points.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 6:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whether
or not you feel Herm Edwards should be held responsible for the debacle (mockery? tragedy? comedy? joke? slaughter? putrid vomiting?), I would very much like it if we at least stopped talking about former coaches like they weren't half the coach Edwards is. You can talk about talent and injuries and building and patience and those are all valid points, but the fact remains that Edwards is now at the helm for one of the worst losses in Chiefs history- closest I've found is 44-10 in '94, but that's the same spread.

He may turn this team around next year or the year after, but for the time being, I think Dick Vermeil and the rest of our recent coaches have earned a break.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 9:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

A little devil's advocate
MAWK, you mentioned how terrible this loss was and sarcastically MAWKed Herm's "rebuilding" by saying hard losses like this are expected, etc.

We lost 44-10 in the 1994.  We were good that year.  Damn good.  Certainly a contender.  Why wasn't that loss MAWKed like this one was?

(Note: I'm just playing devil's advocate here.  In no way am I accepting this loss)

by Joel Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 11:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because
A. We were coming off seasons of 11-5, 10-6, 10-6, 11-5.
B. We were 5-2 at the time. Not 4-8.
C. We had Joe Montana and Marcus Allen.
D. Because there are games like this. I'm not upset about the gap of the loss, honestly. What's bad to me is the level of horrendous play we saw yesterday. I'd need to look at the box-score, but I'm pretty sure we had more than 7 first downs in that game. It's not how much we lost by, it's how we lost. Same thing for the fact that it's not that we're rebuilding. It's the way we're rebuilding.

By the way, go to Pro Football Reference and just flip back through the records of the Schottenheimer teams. It's not just the records, it's the kind of wins they were. Convincing. I'm not pining for Marty, I know he was as conservative as they come, and I honestly believe that the man is just cursed to never win a playoff game. But when you talk about consistency, talent, discipline, and winning, man. The guy set the bar high.

For the record, Schottenheimer inherited a 4-11 team and in his first two years was 19-12.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 11:23 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I am
all aboard as far as Croyle goes but....

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 9:53 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Vick
got 23 months in prison!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 9:54 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

How much
will he actually serve?  All of it?

by Joel Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 10:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I think
he has to serve all of it.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 10:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Difference between Fed and State Pens
State Pens typically require you to serve 50-60% of your sentence before you are eligible for early release.
Fed Pens require 80%.

by HIV 2 Elway on Dec 10, 2007 10:53 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Glass Joe as in "Glass Jaw"
Your knowledge of old school NES is only outdone by your ability to evaluate players, sir.

Perhaps you should revisit your Huard fanhood, if only he could - I don't know - finish an entire game.

The only difference between you and someone who wears a Champ Bailey jersey is geography.

I'll remind you that Bordie went toe to toe against Peyton Manning with a much more limited game plan, and Kolby threw down 150 yd.s rushing in his first NFL start.

"Great, just great, I can't wait to watch Ohio State lose the national championship AGAIN."

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 10:05 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

D Thomas
Parade's got a point. You were backing Huard week in and week out until you saw how terrible he was, then when Brodie came in and was driving, you were orgasming over the guy. He's had some bad games against good teams (and Denver), but if we gave Damon 7 games, I think Croyle deserves his fair share.

We all need to not just cling to "He's got such a great arm!" though. So does Kyle Boller. I want the kid to succeed, but I'm not willing to be patient to the point of frustration with him.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 10:32 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You're
 right, a 61 passer rating is great. kinda funny how you switched from Brodie to Kolby in that Payton Manning comparison!! Besides you know it all, you're a parade for GOd's sake. You can down the Buckeyes all you want, but what bowl game will you be watching? LOL

At least Huard can produce wins, but how would you understand, you're a parade right?

oO Buckeyes Oo

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 12:34 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Keep your perspective
The Chiefs are 4-9.  Croyle has only played 3 games.

That means that 6 of those losses are Huards.

The only win that actually looked like a win was against San Diego.  The rest were all "pull it out of your butt" wins where the team played horribly but got it anyway.

At least with Croyle while you're losing you may be developing a great QB in the future.  

What are you getting with Huard playing?

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 6:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is starting to look like...
a Greek-freakin-tragedy.

Herm "The Destroyer of Teams" Edwards needs to retire and go full time into preaching.

when Law or Surtain miss a tackle, drink. when Law or Surtain fall down, drink twice.

by geekfather on Dec 10, 2007 10:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

The fact is...
About half our veterans have "packet it in" for the season.  Larry's probably not coming back for this.  Our O-line could care less.  Both Brodie and Kolby showed serious potential when other parts of the team came to play.

Writing either off at this stage is moronic.

You want to naysay and fret, start talking about LJ.  He's a 4th year veteran and our highest paid player who's basically sitting out this season.

Have LJ start with Brodie and trade off with Kolby and a decent O-line and then think about how you want to evaluate them.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 10:18 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Trade LJ
Kolby is more of a team guy and is willing to block. LJ cannot/will not block!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 10:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No way you can say that either
Three games isn't enough to condemn or solidify any player's spot on the roster.

Smith and Croyle have to get a pass this year because of a horrible, horrible offensive line.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 10:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

How
is it that LJ gets a pass he is a true locker room cancer, he is that guy that the vet players would be a monster if he got his payday. You want to build a young team around this guy!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 10:33 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But
if LJ and Smith have the same O-line, and one runs with passion, and determination, doesn't fumble inside the 20, and the other does none of those things and costs us penalties after signing the largest contract in Chiefs' history, don't we need to examine that?
You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is
what I am saying,if your going to build a stud o-line,then it does not matter who is back there.(see Denver stats with undrafted runningbacks)

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 10:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah
do you think maybe we should implement the zone blocking scheme as we develop a lot of new young o-linemen.  Being easy to learn is its primary advantage, and Kolby Smith is the kind of back that fits that system...either stay playside or make one cut and go.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 10, 2007 10:45 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Talent does matter
unless you have a cheap chop-block cut back scheme like the broncos, you do need talent. And one of the problems with the Broncos in recent years has been that when you have a defense that can outsmart the scheme, the running game gets shut down.

We need a talent back.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 10:57 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say
that talent didn't matter...I just thought that with Waters and Weigmann being the only o-linemen we should keep, maybe making things easier for Niswanger, Taylor, and new guys we draft or pick up before next year would be a good thing to do.  We don't have to commit to the whole system, but practicing 4 or 5 zone blocking plays (dive, counter, toss, and a few twists) might help the new guys build some cohesiveness and confidence.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 10, 2007 2:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

PV
was replying to above comment, not yours.

And yeah, I definitely agree that some zone blocking would help. Currently, this whole "go straight forward, yes, even you, running back" scheme hasn't been too successful.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 3:23 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Too early to cash in LJ for Kolby
Larry had a few 100 yard games this season.

The entire Chiefs team INCLUDING Kolby had only 16 yards yesterday.

I LOVE Kolby, and personally I think LJ is an A-hole.

But ALL players on the offense are affected by the missing pieces.  Croyle isn't playing as well as he would with protection.  Hell, Huard would have played better with better protection, and you know how much I LOVE Huard  (sarcasm).

I like Kolbys scat back ability.  But seriously, he's only played 3 games and in one of them he was completely shut down.  We simply haven't seen enough of him to know if he is going to be good long term or has just had a few good games.

LJ may be a total jerk, but you can't deny that for two years he was maybe the second best back in the NFL.

Its not just an excuse for Herm, but honestly, WHAT PLAYER COULD succeed with this offensive line and playcalling?

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Quick question
if we need better pass protection or Croyle will die, why would you be backing LJ at this time? You realize the man does a better Ole! than most bull fighters?!

You know who is going to be good long term?

Darren McFadden.

Just sayin'.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 8:47 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Line should come first
Theres no doubt that LJ has alot of shortcomings.  His attitude is horrible.  I don't like him as a person, period.

But he IS a good at running the ball.  And you know, thats the most important thing for a running back to be able to do.

Don't you think if you want better protection for your QB it would be better to get some talent on the offensive line to block in the first place rather than getting another running back whose secondary job is blocking?

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Darren McFadden.  Actually I love pretty much all of Arkansas backs.  

But it goes back to drafting for our needs instead of drafting star power.  We already have a star running back and another back that could potentially be a star in the future.  So we don't really NEED another great running back.

However, we need to replace 3 out of 5 offensive linemen this year, and not just the starters.  All the backups but Niswanger look like they need to be replaced as well.

Right now in my opinion we NEED linemen to block for the running backs we already have instead of getting another running back to get smashed behind the line of scrimage or a different QB to get sacked 8 times a game.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 9:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Couple of things
It may seem hypocritical for me to blame Herm while absolving Croyle, but here's my line of thinking.

In the games and situations where Brodie's been given a chance by the O-line (and not facing a 28 point deficit), he's succeeded. In the games where we've been close and needed good coaching, we've come up short.

As far as personnel goes, I want to be fair to Brodie, but I also think this is the most talented offensive skill player draft in years. I think passing up a known talent for an offensive lineman (especially off of a team that fell apart like Michigan) might be a mistake. I also think the worst case scenario is we have a quarterback competition between two players with athletic talent, and whichever one doesn't work out, we trade or cut.

It's a moral imperative that we trade LJ so we can move up and get McFadden, if only to keep the Patriots from getting him. We owe it to the world.

After our discussion of how much money we're spending (read:blowing), couldn't we cut some fat and bring in some high draft picks and truly rebuild?

I don't want us to ignore the O-line. I'm not a masochist. I just think we'd be better served by signing a major O-lineman and using veteran talent along with some 2nd-4th round talent, as opposed to gambling with a stud in a loaded offensive and defensive draft class. We can have our pick of the best QB class in years, a high talent running back, a shut down corner (since no one will be drafting defense), or Glenn Dorsey.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 10:30 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

MAWK
Do you think Miami would take LJ?  If we could get their 1st and 3rd round picks this year (maybe 4th too) we could draft McFadden and a CB or Dorsey...honestly, I don't see us drafting a QB, not until Herm gets a chance to evaluate Croyle behind something other than the offensive line from St. Mary's Embroidery and Knitting Technical School for the Blind.

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 10, 2007 10:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

No way
they love Ronnie Brown. Love love love. They're taking Woodson, I'd put pretty good money on it.

I'm dead serious. Everyone needs to root for the Niners. If the Patriots get McFadden...

Dear God.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 11:16 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see the Pats
trading away that high pick. Just a hunch.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 11:43 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't see that happening.
For one, what are they going to trade it for? I mean, granted, they can get three 2nd and 4th round picks and all of them will end up starting because Bellichek is a damn cyborg, but the other thing is the new attitude the Pats have adopted. This "F*ck you and f*ck your mother and f*ck your pets and your mother's pets" thing. The best way to support that attitude is to draft the best pro prospect in the last two and next two years.

I swear to God, I can just see them faking an injury on him, holding him out until they play the Colts and then Bellichek saying "Now witness the power of this fully operational Darren McFadden."

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 11:55 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember
The Patriots won't have their 1st round pick because of the whole cheating thing, so if they give away the SF pick for a bunch of lower picks they won't pick anyone until the very end of the 2nd round (assuming they win the Superbowl and pick 32nd).

by PVChiefsfan on Dec 10, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I see...
That must be what they're doing with Koolaid.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
MAWK is scaring me how much he's in Bellichiks head.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 7:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This line of thinking got us where we are now
No QB can survive without an O-line.  Look at David Carr.  He was THE best QB in that draft.  #1 pick in the first round.  But with no line to protect him, he was ruined.

Look how well Matt Leinart is doing this year.......  crickets

I find the idea of "well we can't pass up THIS QB because he's so good, the O-line can wait another year" to be falling victim to a players celebrity appeal built up in the media.

The idea that the only good QB has to be taken in the first round is preposterous.  Brady was a 7th round pick, Romo was undrafted.

But they are smart players with good skills.  Just like Croyle is.  The thing Brady and Romo have that Croyle doe'nt is a good O-line.

You say we can just go get a free agent line, but look at McIntosh.  He was the best out there last year.  Trully good O-linemen are RARELY allowed to go free agent by their teams.

The Chiefs have historically had one of the best O-lines in the NFL.  For the most part, they did this by drafting the players, not free agency.  Willie Roaf is the exception, and that is a case of Vermeil filling a hole for the short run rather than wanting to take the time to develop a new player who would peak after he had left.

Szott, Alt, Grunhard, Tate, Shields, Waters... These guys were found by the Chiefs and drafted.  Except for Tate who the Chiefs allowed to go in free agency, these players learned their position and stayed with the team for 10 or more years.

If you're REALLY building for the future and not just temporary wins, you draft the players and develop them.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 6:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Um.
So drafting primarily defensive players except for DBowe over the last five years got us here?

ERRRRRR!

The Browns are a great example as the gentleman said yesterday. Draft a lineman AND add a free agent. But you can't honestly be advocating the thinking that a rookie lineman is more of a sureshot than a QB or RB? The busts are much more catostrophic with skill players, but the payoff is higher. And it takes serious work and development to develop a great lineman. Just drafting Long isn't going to make the counter work.

Look, DJ, I know you like developing players in house.  But it's not as simple as "Let Herm draft them and watch them grow!"

We need to balance free agency and rookies.

So you absolutely do not think drafting the best player available in a skill player heavey draft is a good idea?

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 8:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Draft the players you need, not the ones you want
This kind of goes along with my previous response to a post above.

The reason they've drafted heavily for defense the last two years is because that was the weakness of our team.  If you remember last year, even with Huard at the helm throwing passes for the first time in 6 years, the offense was CONSIDERABLY better than it is this year.

That's whats so mind blowing about this year.  How could they have disintegrated so quickly?

My main point in this post was that finding good free agent linemen is extremely difficult.  Usually teams don't let a good lineman go unless they are getting older and the team has found a younger player to replace them.

I'm all for drafting impact players with high draft picks.  But how do we know we don't ALREADY have that kind of player?  Why waste a first round pick on a QB and then find out next year IF Croyle gets some protection that he is THE guy we've been waiting for since Len Dawson?

Look at the Browns.  Perfect example.  They practically gave away next years draft to get Brady Quinn.  All of the sudden, they have the LT they drafted filling a major whole in their line and Derek Anderson, the guy they already had is having a terrific season.  Brady Quinn is a first round pick sitting on the bench.

So why potentially throw a first round pick in the garbage on a QB if Croyle pans out next year and you have this 1st round pick sitting on the bench?  Why draft another top running back when with some good blocking LJ could return to his old form next year?

The line is the weakness now, not those other two positions.  The line is what needs addressed, not just for this next year, but for the forseeable future.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 10:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dear Santa,
All I want for X-mas is Herm Edward's resignation.

Love,

Every Chiefs Fan

when Law or Surtain miss a tackle, drink. when Law or Surtain fall down, drink twice.

by geekfather on Dec 10, 2007 10:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Excuses are like...
... assholes and Herm Edwards just ran out of colon.

I worked over my DirecTV Superfan package this weekend and couldn't find a team playing with less heart than ours.

Even the Jets, Dolphins, and 49'ers were working through the 4th quarter.

Ugh.  

Herm's lost the team- they don't believe in him, his system, and his methods.

He's failed at his own credo-

"Know your role and do your job"

He is not a good head coach.

He is a good defensive coordinator.

He should go back to the role he's meant for.

MV

by mikvogel on Dec 10, 2007 11:26 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

DJ
I'm deliberately not chiming in on the above as to not "cheap shot."

But aren't you going to defend your man? Usually all I say is that he's coaching badly this season and made bad personnel decisions. These guys want him taken out on a rail!

Herm defenders! A call to arms! Two weeks ago there was no end to the Herm-love! What say you! Defend your man! Stand by him! Stroke his sweet head! Don't let these fans tear him up like this!

You play to win the game! I don't know what that means, but it's true!

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 11:37 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

This one was rough and counts big time
against Herm Edwards. The team is not improving whatsoever. That's on the head coach.

Just head on over to some Dolphin sites. They're saying the same things about Cam Cameron.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 11:40 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Chris
suprised to hear you chime in on this. You are usually quiet on the coaching job.

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 11:50 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know I've been
Just chimed in though with the new post.

by Chris Thorman on Dec 10, 2007 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You have to give me a chance to get home from work
I usually don't respond to those kinds of posts for the same reason I don't read the boards at the KC Star.

You can't debate people that are ruled by the emotion of the moment and want to destroy the mansion that is being built because we run into a few bad bricks.  Alot of people are just Whitlock the Hutt disciples regergetating his columns.

You, MAWK, are a little different.  Even if you will not change your opinion and I think you get a little carried away sometimes, you will at least listen to reason (eventually).

I enjoy debating with anyone that is willing to discuss things honestly.  But its kind of hard to jump into the fray with someone who's only comment is "HERM AND CARL MUST DIE!"

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 7:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh
hehehee..

heeehhehehehh

hhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahhaahha

"mansion that is being built."

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Get this! Following what is arguable the worst loss in Chiefs history, we're building "a mansion."

You realize that if we're building a mansion, it's got an unsound foundation, rats in the walls, and the plumbing doesn't work, because there's shit raining all over us, right?

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 8:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mawk
And if next year the Chiefs play even up to the level they did last year, we won't even remember this loss to Denver.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 10:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Mawk
I never said Glass Joe was the only source of the problem, but he hasen't led us to victory yet.
His numbers are weak, and he hasen't shown any leadership either. I'm not going to support him just because he has a strong arm, and I was trying to stay positive for the better of the team. Bottom line, chatter all you want but he's at the helm, and he MUST take the rap along with HERMIE. I guess his numbers speak in my favor, so you can make an injury-prone QB seem like the great white hope all you want. He hasen't done anything remotely great yet.

Besides, wins speak for themselves, and we haven't seen those thingies in a long time !

oO Buckeyes Oo

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 12:14 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Everyone ready for this?
The offense has been worse with Brodie at the helm.

And he does deserve blame for that. I agree. I have a much easier time forgiving the kid for not being ready when he wasn't the starter all season and behind that O-line than Herm in his second season.

Trust me, I'm just as worried as anyone that Croyle's nothing but a big arm in a sharp suit. My fear is that we're going to trust in him completely, skip out on the great offensive talent in this draft, and not realize until next year with a revamped O-line that he doesn't have what it takes.

Too many questions to answer and not enough time.

Also, just like a Buckeyes fan to say wins speak for themselves. Good luck against LSU. And by that, I mean, "Good luck trying to keep it within 30."  You might want to reference yesterday for how you're going to feel after the championship team.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
I mean I guess you can label me a Brodie apologist, but you think we're less competitive with Brodie in there?  I mean with the way the season has gone I agree the offense has tanked, but at least we put together drives, and I'm sorry, but I don't think the Indy game is even close with Damon in there.  Huard was a stop gap quarterback and the more he got banged up the worse his accuracy got.  By the end all of his completions looked like they were in spite of the pass.

Maybe you're right and we need to draft a QB and have them compete it out in the spring, but regardless I don't think the offense is worse because of Brodie Croyle, I think the Chiefs' veterans decided this season was over after LJ went home and then losing to Oakland.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 12:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
that we've mounted drives. We've had more potential with Brodie. I've felt more confident and more excited about the offense with Croyle in at QB. But we've still backslid with Croyle at QB, statistically. That's muddled with injuries, competition, team effort, etc, but I can't blame Edwards for not producing despite obvious obstacles without holding Croyle to the same standard.

I don't think drafting a QB would hurt us in any way.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 12:46 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

QB isn't the problem with the Offense
It would hurt us because by drafting a QB, we are NOT drafting another position player that would help the REAL problem.

Even with Huard starting, QB was not the problem with this offense.  With Croyle as QB, its not the problem either.

So instead of getting ANOTHER guy that won't be the problem or the solution, lets FIX THE PROBLEM!

New Offensive Coordinator.  New playbook (probably).  New Offensive Line.

There will ALWAYS be another good QB.  It's not like if we don't get one this year we never will.  But no matter who it is, they won't succeed until the line is fixed.  That must take priority.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 7:06 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

DJ
take a long look at the talent. Look at it. This is not Troy Smith, Alex Smith.

Brian Brohm.
Andre Woodson.
Matt Ryan.
Colt Brennan.

This is an unfathomably talented group. And I'll say it again.

If McFadden is, by the Grace of God, there, we take him. We take him and trade LJ. Trade him to the Jets for a bagel.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 8:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

LJ Trade?
It wouldn't kill me if the Chiefs traded LJ.  It will never happen because LJ is kind of Petersons pet project, but I wouldn't oppose it.

However, when McFadden in a Chiefs jersey is running up the back of Chris Terry and John Welbourne next year because we didn't get a top prospect Left Tackle and theres only so much money available to spend on free agents every year, we'll all be driving ourselves off of cliffs.

And we haven't even talked about Cornerback.  There's no way Law can take another year, and Surtain is aging rapidly too.

Almost all of the pro bowl Left Tackles and Cornerbacks in the last 10 years have been taken in the first round.  They are almost more important an early round selection than QB is.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 10:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You guys forget
Carl is on the hot seat here, when the new GM comes in do you really think he will keep Herm and Carl cronies?

by Eric on Dec 11, 2007 11:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Peterson
With all due respect, you are wrong if you think Carl Peterson is going anywhere.

People have been saying Peterson should be fired for 10 years.  The Chiefs have gone through losing seasons before.

Peterson will be here until he decides its time to retire.  Not before.

by DJ on Dec 11, 2007 5:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Last year
he signed (I think) a 4 year contract and said that would be his last contract and was retiring after that.

So I'm pretty sure he's got 3 years left.

by Joel Thorman on Dec 11, 2007 9:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is how you blame Herm and not Croyle
It's easy, it's called play calling and pass protection.  Croyle didn't audible in a predictable running play for almost every first down in the first half.  Croyle didn't construct the worst O-line in Chiefs history.

Those are Herm's faults.

NOW, did he get spooked?  Is that why when we went to the no huddle things crashed, or does our O-line suck so bad that they can't even pass block when the defense is rushed?  I don't know about that.  If you want a knock on Brodie call him "footsteps brocro," the kid may be spooked but he's no Damon "Help I've fallen and I can't get up" Huard.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 12:30 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

NO
he hasen't won one game, I guess thats normal for such a great QB!!! YOu have NO arguement, the guy has no confidence, and it's obvious in his press conf.

Bottom line, a loser won't get my respect, HINT HINT!

#THE OHIO STATE BUCKEYES#

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 12:45 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude
you have GOT to chill with the kneejerk reactions.

Damon wins a game: "Huard is great!"
Damon loses a game: "Huard's a bum!"
Croyle plays well: "Bro Cro is awesome!"
Croyle loses: "Bench the bum! Bring back Huard!"

You can't just try things until you win and then stick with that until it falls apart. You need a plan.

You would agree that his arm strength is way better than Huard, right?

And also, leadership? I don't give a damn about how he does in a press conference man. In the three two minute drives where Solari hasn't held him back, he's mastered good drives with confidence. Say what you want, but the guy's got leadership.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 12:51 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

MAWK
"You can't just try things until you win and then stick with that until it falls apart. You need a plan."

Not picking the same old fight here MAWK, but how come you don't apply that logic with Herm too?

Herm has a plan.  It takes time to fully implement.  But every loss, its Herm Slamming time.

You say you have to criticize Croyle (even though I don't think your heart is in it) because you are criticizing Herm.

Why not applying the same patient standard to both?

Croyle is trying to learn one position.  Herm is rebuilding an entire team.  Don't you think that would take longer?

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 7:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Because
even when we won, I knew we were going nowhere.

Herm has a plan. The plan sucks, DJ. The plan leads to more first round eliminations. And these aren't losses we learn from. These are losses that make us question if we should let our all-world tight end go because we're so bad.

How about Herm shows me ANYTHING other than the ability to figure out that a tall, athletic wide receiver is a good draft choice, that we're headed anywhere. That's my problem with it, DJ. Not the losses. Not the gameplan.

We're going nowhere.

You and Herm are going to be the last to open your eyes and see it, in 2009, when we have to start over again.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 9:00 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Herms plan
Where do you draw this conclusion from?

Herm says that he doesn't use the word "rebuilding" because it means you're building the same thing that was already there again.  Losing in the playoffs. He's trying to build a team that will win a championship.

Now of course, every coach says that. But you have to take the guy for his word and give him a shot.

I understand that you haven't bought into Herms "plan".  That's fine, he hasn't given you a reason to yet.  But just because some don't believe it doesn't mean it can't work.

Realistically, Herm is in the second year of a 4 year contract. Whether we believe in him or not or whether his plan works or not, he WILL be around long enough to see his plan come to fruition.  At that point we will see if it works or not.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 10:16 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

YOu're
right he's not Huard, he can't win one game, let alone four!
#THE OHIO STATE BUCKEYES#

by D Thomas on Dec 10, 2007 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Look at your theory....
Brodie, or as you call him Glass Jaw, with this putrid offensive line, will undoubtedly get hurt and the fearless Damon Huard will improve his record to 6-6 right?

Mawk, myself, and everyone else with half a brain will have to shut up and accept that our stupid notions of "developing a young QB" were foolish and misinformed, and the Chiefs will have a 6-10 record, with lingering doubts about QB which much have just had a "flukey" game against Indianapolis.

That way we can look forward to next year where we will be led Damon "I'm blowing into this straw to direct my wheelchair bootleg" Huard rolling his way to victory and another, what?, 8-8 season.  Maybe we would have had that impressive record if we just hadna let that Croyle kid start!

Now let me tell you what really is going to happen.  Let's say again, your glass jaw hypo is correct.  Well then Huard might come in for half a game, get injured.  Hello Thigpen 0-3 goodnight.

Or, Brodie who seems to finish games even without blockers struggles on for 3 more games, maybe in a last ditch effort to keep their jobs the O-line puts up a decent effort against the Jets or LJ comes back or something and we go 1-2; 5-11.  Then we know Croyle is tough enough to at least play.  So we draft a QB, who, wow remember this concept, has NO NFL experience, shocking how that works out, and we have an unknown who can take a hit and was at least alright against Indy vs. a total unknown that D Thomas might like more if he says "gee golly" and has tool-bag goatee, but with NO again that ABSOLUTELY NO, NFL experience, it's funny how these young guys never seem to have that!

So congrats, your season is now rooting that Croyle gets injured and hoping we get the worst draft pick possible to stay as mediocre as we can be, woo-hoo, rebuilding, such any concept, so easily lost on people.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 1:45 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Don't worry
Hermie will talk Carl into pulling the trigger on a blockbuster trade Pennington will save the day! His toilet paper arm will get us at least three yards a pass play. Then the questions will ber asked why are you staying with Pennington, because YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME HELLOOOO!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 2:32 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I don't know
what's sadder. This comment, or that part of me goes, "No, I can see Herm doing that. That would make sense. What's that smell? Oh, my vomit. Interesting."
You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 2:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't
try to inhale while you vomit! You could choke, and you may checkout!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 2:50 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh sweet baby jesus
His name is Chad, CHAD!

The day Pennington comes to KC is the day this become the Official Kansas City Brigade Pride Parade.

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on Dec 10, 2007 4:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Pennington
Oh there's no doubt Pennington will be a Chief next year.  None at all.... * pukes *

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 7:12 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If he brings in
Pennington, promise me you'll join us in the light of reason.
You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 10, 2007 9:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

mawk
I've always said one of Herms weaknesses is his loyalty to people who don't deserve it.

But I don't throw the baby out with the bath water because of someones flaws.

Bellichik is a ruthless, arrogant, cheating S.O.B.  But I'd love to have him coach my team.

My patience with Herm will wear out when I think he has had ample time to repair the damage done to the team from the Vermeil Super Bowl shot.

If he doesn't get rid of assistant coaches this off season, my patience will start wearing a little thin.

But I think I have a pretty good idea what Herm is going to do.  Remember this post because I'm going to predict the future.

Solari will be fired.  An experienced Offensive Coordinator will be brought in (I hear Cam Cameron might be looking for a job)along with a new playbook and the Al Saunders playbook will get thrown out since apparently no one has a clue what to do with it anymore.

I PRAY they will get rid of the Special Teams coach.  He's the guy that wanted Eddie Drummond.  He's the guy that can't get his kickers to focus enough to make 30 yard field goals.  He's the guy that can't get his special teams guys to learn how to block.

To me, what Herm does with the coaching decisions is almost more important to me than what players they draft.  For all the flack Herm gets for what goes on in a game, the Head Coach is more the glue that holds things together.  The Coordinators and the coaches have alot more control over what goes on with playcalls and personnel on the field than the head coach does.

by DJ on Dec 10, 2007 10:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So it is written
so it probably won't happen, but I'm willing to mark it down anyways.

Your prediction has been noted in annals of AP. When these things happen, AND we're good, I'll let you serve me my crow.

Your final thought is kind of perplexing. The one thing everyone's said is "Well, okay, the coaching's been bad, but he's brought in so much talent!"

If that's not him, and all the things that are him, we're terrible at, then, um... why isn't the guy packing his bags? Because that glue? It's runny and messy and dripping out the sides.

You Play! To Punt! The Ball!

by Ridiculous Matt on Dec 11, 2007 9:59 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know
Hermie is thinking about it. Hermie says Chad can dink and dunk with the best of them!

by Eric on Dec 10, 2007 4:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

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