And some of us listen.  Highlights from yesterday's session with the media.  I tried to highlight what Herm was actually saying and avoiding the fluff.

On how Brodie Croyle looks:

“Yeah, he’s just rusty. That’s what’s good about the bye week, we’ll have another day tomorrow and next week we’ll have three more practices. That’ll be good for him. He looks strong, his arm looks strong."

On the bye week with so many young guys:

I know it helps us a lot because there’s so many young guys. If you think it about it, they’ve played nine games already, that’s almost a college season.

On DaJuan Morgan's strengths:

“He’s a pretty good tackler, he’s very sudden when he reads it. I think he’s playing a little cautious right now, because he’s not confident. That comes with playing. You have to play these kids."

On Jamaal Charles not breaking a big one yet:

“He hasn’t been in the game a whole lot. He hasn’t touched the ball a whole lot. It has to do with a lot of things. Plays, lots of three-and-outs for us, too many three-and-outs. He’s dropped a couple balls when it could have been a big play, so that’s part of it too. I think he’s becoming more comfortable in what we want him to do.”

On 35 year old Muhsin Muhammad zipping past the defense:

“He took a bad angle. The guy caught it, cut across the grain and they made a big score. It’s part of the learning process too.”

On Tamba Hali and the rest of the pass rush:

“He helps you, no doubt. That and the inside guys making sure the pocket’s pushed. Our line has not been good at times on pass rush. You always have to keep the pocket tight, you can’t let the pocket open up. When you’re a tackle, the basic rule is you never want to rush outside the hashes because it expands the pocket too much. You want the pocket to close so the quarterback can’t step up. When you get your tackles outside the hashes, the quarterback can step up because he feels no pressure in the middle of the pocket. So we have to get that adjusted and try to do a better job about that too.”

Maybe Jamaal Charles could be utilized more to avoid three and outs?  And the guy is a track star, fast is fast regardless of the level of competition.  I'm just very anxious to see him in the game more and more.  You've got a weapon, now let's see what he's made of.

Around here we've beaten the offensive line to death with consistent (but deserved) criticism.  Their inability to effectively protect the quarterback or consistently create running lanes for Larry Johnson has been a massive problem.  It's handcuffed our team's ability to get anything going offensively.

However, the other side of the line has been just as big if not bigger of a failure in the Chiefs downfall.  The defensive line, comprised of two 1st round picks, one 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick (albeit all within the last 3 years) aren't getting to the quarterback nearly enough.

With a below average output from the defensive line, Herm Edwards had this to say, “At times we got there, but we didn’t sack him. If you hit the guy and disrupt the guy and he can’t throw it on time, that’s almost as good as a sack. If you can make the guy throw quick, you’ve got a chance.”

Ugh.  You HAVE to get to the quarterback in this league.  It's as crippling as not having the ability to make first downs through the air on offense.

Teams pass the ball now.  A lot.  It's performances like these that really do make me think Herm is instituting game plans that are simply out-dated.  I mean I'm not blaming the guy.  That's his style.  It's just unfortunate his style is heading in the opposite direction the league is headed.

The KC Star and the FanPosts touched on this subject as well.

Poll

If you could add a Pro Bowler it would be on the....

• Offensive Line
• Defensive Line

  282 votes | Results

**UPDATE SAT. 5 PM** Final cuts have been made. Head here.

Of course, the 53 players on the team after 5 PM central time tonight won't be the exact roster for opening day. After the NFL roster deadline hits this evening, expect the Kansas City Chiefs to pick up one or two players off of the waiver wire.

I've run through the roster and made my decisions on who I think will be cut. Interestingly enough, while researching this and reading others cut lists, most of them are in agreement about 95% of the time.

The only differences I've seen in people's cut lists are the tail ends of the linebacker and line rotations. A little LeRue Rumph here. A little Anthony Alabi there. Maybe throw in some Sippio. (Update: Sippio apparently has been cut)

There isn't anything groundbreaking in this post because it's pretty easy to pick about 90% of this roster with about that same certainty.

QB: Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen and Damon Huard

No surprises here. The Chiefs will carry three quarterbacks on the final roster no matter what and these are almost assuredly the three they will keep.

Cut: None

RB: Larry Johnson, Kolby Smith, Jamaal Charles, Jackie Battle and Dantrell Savage

Dantrell Savage hopefully makes this team as a kick returner but I've included him in the running backs section. LJ, Kolby and Jamaal Charles are all 100% safe. Battle may not make it because of roster numbers but he's probably safe too.

Cut: None

WR: Dwayne Bowe, Devard Darling, Will Franklin, Maurice Price and Jeff Webb

Despite not catching a pass this preseason, Devard Darling is still accomplished enough to get the nod over Arthur, Joachim, McMahan and Sippio. If you make an argument against Darling, you have to make an argument for one of those guys making the team and I don't think you can. Maybe you can make an argument for Bobby Sippio but I think you're splitting hairs at that point.(Update: Sippio has apparently been cut)

Cut: Jabari Arthur, Sergio Joachim, Kevin McMahan and Bobby Sippio

FB:Mike Cox and Chris Manderino

Word on the street is that the Chiefs like Manderino's special teams play, which is great for him because Mike Cox has the starting fullback spot nailed.

Cut: None

TE: Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam and J.P. Foschi

TG and Cottam are locks to make the roster and we'll give Foschi and his GA Tech roots the nod over the injured Mike Merritt and Michael "What happened to people being excited about me?" Allan. Allan may spend his final year on the practice squad before permanently falling off into obscurity. My future money says this is another D3 experiment that will not succeed.

Cut: Michael Allan and Mike Merritt

O-Line: Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Rudy Niswanger, Adrian Jones, Damion McIntosh, Herb Taylor, Barry Richardson and Wade Smith

I think those first eight offensive linemen I listed are definitely going to make the team. Beyond that, I think we could see another player dropped at a different position in favor of another offensive linemen. That linemen may not even be on the team right now and there is no way the Chiefs are satisfied with the depth they have on the offensive line.

Cut: Travis Leffew, Tre Stallings, Will Svitek, Anthony Alabi, Edwin Harrison and Rob Smith

D-Line: Turk McBride, Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey, Tamba Hali, Alfonso Boone, Ron Edwards. T.J. Jackson and Brian Johnston

After Ron Edwards, you're entering a pretty blurry area on the defensive line. TJ Jackson and Brian Johnston both had their names called more than a few times last Thursday against the Rams and that may be enough to distinguish themselves from the other defensive linemen.

Cut: Johnny Dingle, Jason Parker and Derek Lokey

LB: Derrick Johnson, Pat Thomas, Donnie Edwards, Demorrio Williams, Weston Dacus and Nap Harris (Int'l player Aden Durde will be on the practice squad but not count for a spot)

Nap Harris seems to be on everyone else's cut list and he certainly is a possible roster casualty. One of the cuts listed below could out value Harris on special teams, making the decision to keep him even more difficult. Donnie Edwards of course makes the final cut but how durable will he be in his 13th season? He's already tweaked a hamstring.

Cut: EJ Kuale, Steve Octavien and LeRue Rumph

CB: Patrick Surtain, Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Dimitri Patterson, Tyron Brackenridge and Maurice Leggett

The first four CB spots are taken with Brackenridge, Barksdale and Leggett battling for the final one or even two spots. Can't say I've seen much of any of those three this preseason, making my analysis a bit strained. Brackenridge will probably get the nod because the Chiefs liked him enough last year as an UDFA to play him a bit and neither Barksdale nor Leggett has distinguished themselves.

Cut: Rashard Barksdale

S: Jarrad Page, Bernard Pollard, Jon McGraw and DaJuan Morgan

The safety position isn't difficult to figure out. Page and Pollard will start with McGraw and Morgan rotating in and out. The Chiefs don't need five safeties on the team.

Cut: Khayyam Burns

Special Teams: Nick Novak, Dustin Colquitt and J.P. Darche

Again, no surprises here. The Sams v. Savage competition is pretty much even but I'll throw my support behind the younger, less Drummond-like Dantrell Savage. My gut says Sams makes the team though but I can't bring myself to post that.

Cut: BJ Sams and Connor Barth (he's still on the roster so we'll include him for good measure)

We've already had a few threads about the roster cuts so use this spot to make any last minute predictions. I'll update you on the cuts as soon as I hear about them.

Of course, the 53 players on the team after 5 PM central time tonight won't be the exact roster for opening day. After the NFL roster deadline hits this evening, expect the Chiefs to pick up one or two players off of the waiver wire.

I've run through the roster and made my decisions on who I think will be cut. Interestingly enough, while researching this and reading others cut lists, most of them are in agreement about 95% of the time.

The only differences I've seen in people's cut lists are the tail ends of the linebacker and line rotations. A little LeRue Rumph here. A little Anthony Alabi there. Maybe throw in some Sippio.

QB: Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen and Damon Huard

No surprises here. The Chiefs will carry three quarterbacks on the final roster no matter what and these are almost assuredly the three they will keep.

Cut: None

RB: Larry Johnson, Kolby Smith, Jamaal Charles, Jackie Battle and Dantrell Savage

Dantrell Savage hopefully makes this team as a kick returner but I've included him in the running backs section. LJ, Kolby and Jamaal Charles are all 100% safe. Battle may not make it because of roster numbers but he's probably safe too.

Cut: None

WR: Dwayne Bowe, Devard Darling, Will Franklin, Maurice Price and Jeff Webb

Despite not catching a pass this preseason, Devard Darling is still accomplished enough to get the nod over Arthur, Joachim, McMahan and Sippio. If you make an argument against Darling, you have to make an argument for one of those guys making the team and I don't think you can. Maybe you can make an argument for Bobby Sippio but I think you're splitting hairs at that point.

Cut: Jabari Arthur, Sergio Joachim, Kevin McMahan and Bobby Sippio

FB:Mike Cox and Chris Manderino

Word on the street is that the Chiefs like Manderino's special teams play, which is great for him because Mike Cox has the starting fullback spot nailed.

Cut: None

TE: Tony Gonzalez, Brad Cottam and J.P. Foschi

TG and Cottam are locks to make the roster and we'll give Foschi and his GA Tech roots the nod over the injured Mike Merritt and Michael "What happened to people being excited about me?" Allan. Allan may spend his final year on the practice squad before permanently falling off into obscurity. My future money says this is another D3 experiment that will not succeed.

Cut: Michael Allan and Mike Merritt

O-Line: Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Rudy Niswanger, Adrian Jones, Damion McIntosh, Herb Taylor, Barry Richardson and Wade Smith

I think those first eight offensive linemen I listed are definitely going to make the team. Beyond that, I think we could see another player dropped at a different position in favor of another offensive linemen. That linemen may not even be on the team right now and there is no way the Chiefs are satisfied with the depth they have on the offensive line.

Cut: Travis Leffew, Tre Stallings, Will Svitek, Anthony Alabi, Edwin Harrison and Rob Smith

D-Line: Turk McBride, Tank Tyler, Glenn Dorsey, Tamba Hali, Alfonso Boone, Ron Edwards. T.J. Jackson and Brian Johnston

After Ron Edwards, you're entering a pretty blurry area on the defensive line. TJ Jackson and Brian Johnston both had their names called more than a few times last Thursday against the Rams and that may be enough to distinguish themselves from the other defensive linemen.

Cut: Johnny Dingle, Jason Parker and Derek Lokey

LB: Derrick Johnson, Pat Thomas, Donnie Edwards, Demorrio Williams, Weston Dacus and Nap Harris (Int'l player Aden Durde will be on the practice squad but not count for a spot)

Nap Harris seems to be on everyone else's cut list and he certainly is a possible roster casualty. One of the cuts listed below could out value Harris on special teams, making the decision to keep him even more difficult. Donnie Edwards of course makes the final cut but how durable will he be in his 13th season? He's already tweaked a hamstring.

Cut: EJ Kuale, Steve Octavien and LeRue Rumph

CB: Patrick Surtain, Brandon Flowers, Brandon Carr, Dimitri Patterson, Tyron Brackenridge and Maurice Leggett

The first four CB spots are taken with Brackenridge, Barksdale and Leggett battling for the final one or even two spots. Can't say I've seen much of any of those three this preseason, making my analysis a bit strained. Brackenridge will probably get the nod because the Chiefs liked him enough last year as an UDFA to play him a bit and neither Barksdale nor Leggett has distinguished themselves.

Cut: Rashard Barksdale

S: Jarrad Page, Bernard Pollard, Jon McGraw and DaJuan Morgan

The safety position isn't difficult to figure out. Page and Pollard will start with McGraw and Morgan rotating in and out. The Chiefs don't need five safeties on the team.

Cut: Khayyam Burns

Special Teams: Nick Novak, Dustin Colquitt and J.P. Darche

Again, no surprises here. The Sams v. Savage competition is pretty much even but I'll throw my support behind the younger, less Drummond-like Dantrell Savage.

Cut: BJ Sams and Connor Barth (he's still on the roster so we'll include him for good measure)

We've already had a few threads about the roster cuts today so use this spot to make any last minute predictions. I'll update you on the cuts as soon as I hear about them.

As the final preseason game nears and the New England Patriots loom on the horizon, I figured now is as good of a time as any to go over some odds for the Kansas City Chiefs 2008 season, courtesy of Bodog Life. I'm not a gambler but these odds are great for community projections as well.

An explanation of some of the numbers used would help too.

Team Odds

Odds to win the 2009 Super Bowl XLIII: 125/1

Odds to win the 2008 AFC Championship: 55/1

Odds to win the AFC West Division: 12/1

Continue reading this post »

I make no promises that this is going to be a regular segment. Absolutely none.

1. Finally, we face a real offense! Are we about to be exposed? I believe this team is on the path to redemption, but it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Particularly for our defense: we boast little passrush, our best DT is a rookie, our LB corps is thin and may have a massive hole at MLB, and our secondary is talented but incredibly young. Everybody could hold their own against the laughably lousy Bears offense, but the Cardinals offense is another level of trouble: their QBs are uniformly more talented, their OL is bigger and better, their rungame doesn't depend on a rookie, and little needs to be said about their WRs. This unit may be too much to handle.

2. Will we generate any pass rush? The biggest deficiency in the Chiefs' solid defensive effort against the woeful offense of the Bears was a complete lack of pressure on the QBs. Demoting Boone and placing McBride on the strong side will definitely help matters, but it will not fix them. Our pass rush is in serious condition, folks. Hali will do what he does, but this far in his career he's proven to be an every-down DE that's good at a lot of things, but not great at any. He is no sack specialist. McBride has not generated much excitement (from anyone other than Adam Best). And if Johnston emerges as a DE in this league, it won't be this year. He needs time. If you want to keep your eye out on a sleeper, there's been some buzz around the quick Jason Parker, so keep your eyes on #92.

3. Will the right side of the line get their act together? The only obvious sack that the Croyle-led offense gave up against the Bears' blitz-free, vanilla defense was McIntosh simply getting beat around the corner. The only stuff of LJ occurred when Adrian Jones allowed a DT to slide through completely untouched to slam into Two-Sev six yards behind the line of scrimmage. This right side is leaky, and for their one game so far, they've struggled.

4. Can our corners handle the best WR tandem in the NFL? Boldin and Fitzgerald are Pro Bowlers, with a pair of good QBs to get the ball out. They will likely only suit up for a couple series before retiring for the evening. But the time they are on the field will tell us a lot about the character of our young guys. It seems inevitable to me that someone is going to get utterly embarrassed. That's not the issue for me. I'm more concerned with how our young guys would react. It helps to have a short memory at corner, and we're going to see exactly how tough, how focused, and how intense our corners can be. (For the record, Flowers has a great record of rising to the occasion.)

5. Will Herb continue to play well? The most pleasant surprise of the Chicago game last week was the emergence of Herb Taylor at LT, filling in for the still-injured Brandon Albert. It was pointed out to me tonight that Mike Lombardi agrees. The possibilities behind this are serious. We may actually have legit starting talent in Herb Taylor. What if we have starting talent in Barry Richardson? Dare I dream of the day that the Chiefs actually fastened down the right side of their line with a pair of 6th rounders?

6. Will Darling finally emerge? Among the many reports emanating from River Falls, and the performance we witnessed against the Bears, Devard "DVD" Darling has not generated much excitement from anybody that I can tell outside of Warpaint. Here at AP, we've all lost a degree of faith in him as we continue to be underwhelmed. The good news, really to all of this, is that it's just one preseason game into the league. But DVD's route-running looked sluggish and I never spied a moment, rewatching the game, where he had shaken off his coverage.

7. How many minds will Sippio have blown by the final whistle? After Gretz's enthusiastic defense of reserve WR Bobby Sippio, how can you not pull for this guy? The battle for the 5th receiving spot is still completely up for grabs. (Bowe, Franklin, Darling, and probably Webb are locks.) Price has looked fast and great at running routes. Jabari Arthur and Kevin McMahan got on the board last week. Hell, the Chiefs might elect to fill the 5th spot with either BJ Sams or currently-injured rookie Kevin Robinson, who are returners but teams virtually never keep five receivers + a returning specialist. Can Sippio fend them all off? My brain says Price... my heart says differently.

8. Can Savage or Battle make enough happen to sneak onto the roster? After studying my crystal ball, I suspect that the Chiefs are going to be working the hell out of Savage for the remainder of preseason. He will probably garner more carries than any other RB, as the Chiefs either wonder if he's worth moving the earth to try and fit him in our crowded backfield, or to dangle him as preseason trade bait. Jackie Battle has run strong, but that's why I suspect we've got no room for him. We've already got a guy who can run that strong, maybe you've heard of him. I see Battle and I think practice squad.

9. Which kicker will make the most of his chances? Second verse, same as the first. Neither kicker has been able to reach the endzone on kickoffs, which hasn't been pleasant. Barth has had his game opportunity so far, and nailed a decent 37-yarder. Here's hoping for more chances come this evening. I'm sure the Chiefs have Feeley (and worse yet... Morten Andereson) on speed dial.

10. Who can make a name for himself returning kicks? Nobody has really shown a Justin Phinisee-like presense returning kicks this preseason, which has got to make Kevin Robinson happy. Sams doesn't even appear to want the job. C'mon BJ! Throw caution to the wind! (Phinisee, who looked phenomenal in the 2007 preseason returning kicks for the Chiefs, is a free agent. I'm just saying...)

Since I love lists of ten, let's do that, shall we?

Provide me feedback, let me know if you agree or disagree.

1. First string offense has a lot of promise. Hard to tell if Herb Taylor or the right side was up to the job because Gailey's playcalls didn't trust them at all. Lots of misdirection, lots of bootlegs. Croyle and Thigpen have proven to be effective when mobile. When Huard comes in, the offense reverts to 2007. That's not coincidence, and it leads me to believe that pass protection will still be a problem.

2. All RBs look solid, almost all WRs looked solid, too. Only significant WR I was not impressed with was Darling, who was invisible. But the depth of WRs who made plays yesterday was mindboggling. Sure, Sippio(!!!) won the game, but he had another tough catch-and-run earlier in the game. Franklin looked like the best non-Bowe WR. Webb got waaaaay open a couple times. Maurice Price looks like he's in incredible shape after recovering from a broken collarbone. Even Jabari Arthur and Kevin McMahon looked great.

3. I think Lovie and Herm had a gentleman's agreement to not blitz each other's QB. I don't think I saw a single blitz.

4. LJ is going to LOVE the zone blocking system. The guy gets to crunch linebackers and secondaries way more often, now. LJ finally gets to earn yards the way he likes: initial explosion, crunch some folks at the second level, and take off. Loved that touchdown run.

5. DJ looked good, but all other linebackers failed to play the right gap or play tough. Only DJ made a truly powerful play, and he made several. Pat Thomas just about embarrassed himself at the Mike. I think the Chiefs will be stewing over putting Donnie in the middle of the field and putting DeMorrio and DJ on either side. This team will struggle with depth at LB all year.

6. Our secondary was schooled several times over, but not without promise. Maurice Leggett was beat on two obvious plays (one of them being a TD), but only because he made minor, correctable mistakes. His coverage was otherwise pretty strong. Morgan got beat a couple times as well, but his speed is undeniable. Page needs to wrap up better, still. Flowers and Carr both look like rookies, and I continue to have high hopes.

7. Our DL is in trouble, even if Dorsey returns. We might be okay in the middle when he returns (a rotation of Edwards, Tank, Dorsey, and sometimes Boone could be a LOT of fun, although our scrub DTs -- particularly Lokey and T.J. Jackson -- were slaughtered), but we're going to be hurting on the outside all year. Boone is not fast enough to get around the corner at DE, Hali was shut down on sacks but he didn't play too bad, and no other DE made noise other than Turk and Jason Parker on a couple of chases.

8. Barth was money on his kick, so that's good. But neither kicker could get the ball to the endzone on kickoffs.

9. No major kick returns. Sams didn't even return one. Charles was iffy. Savage was actually the best returner of the night.

10. I think our offense will get into the lower 20s or upper teens, and I think our defense is going to be in the mid to lower 20s. I think our defense has lots of talent, especially in the secondary, but we're going to get killed from having no depth at LB, and no talent other than Hali at DE.

Thursday PM Update: sunny d posted about the scrimmage, with a streaming audio link.

Good morning. Here are you updated links to the afternoon session.

UW-RF

BobGretz.com

WPI ($$$) P.S to KCChiefs.com - In your training camp wrap ups, how about wrapping up the entire day of practice instead of just the morning? I know I can't get enough coverage of camp!

Gunther Cunningham spent yesterday morning and afternoon with his linebackers, since he took over the coaching of them after the '07 season. The linebackers definitely seem like the position of the hour, with a lot of print and digital space being dedicated to them as of late. As you can probably imagine, there is a lot of yelling going on when Gunther is around. When the defense came together for drills, Gunther had this to say and I'm sure it was much more funny in person:

"In Spanish, they say ‘uno’, in German, they say ‘eins’, in English, we say ‘one.’ Got that?! ONE!"

Brian Waters, Brodie Croyle, Tony Gonzalez and Damion McIntosh all sat out the afternoon practice for rest. Tamba Hali, Brian Johnston and Trevor Johnson didn't suit up either but did participate in light drills. The latter three have minor injuries they should recover quickly from.

Damon Huard excelled in yesterday's afternoon session, prompting the UW-RF site to say he looked like a completely different player. I didn't think Huard had become too rusty. Like most NFL players, I'm sure he just needed a few days to get back in the rhythm. I know it seems like I haven't been giving Huard enough respect around here but that's more based on the fact that he doesn't fit into the Kansas City Chiefs long term plans. I guess I'm just anxious to move forward. He does make sense in the plan for this year I have to finally admit after some convincing from you guys.

Gretz mentions that after Bowe, Franklin and Darling, the fourth WR spot is wide open. Sippio will probably make the team at least as a special teams regular and occasional wide receiver. I think it's about time we put the Sippio craze to a rest. There is a reason the guy isn't starting - he's too slow. Sure, I'm sure he's great on goal line situations where speed is less of a factor but is it really worth it to give him a starting gig on the team based on that merit alone? I say no way. At the same time, because of the numbers game and the other WRs on the roster, Sippio may slip in there by default.

No practice this morning or in the afternoon. The Chiefs take the field to scrimmage the Vikings at 6:30 PM tonight. It looks like it may rain so we'll see how much scrimmaging actually gets done. It doesn't take much to make the coaches stop this thing.

Jared Allen and Benny Sapp return to face their old team. Here is a clip of Allen, beard and all, talking about playing against the Chiefs. He really strikes me as a team leader, something the Chiefs are still looking for.

Note: Forgot to add in this quote by Bob Gretz that every NFL fan should keep in mind during training camp:

There’s been great readership and reaction to these practice reports and it’s a pleasure to do them. But let me re-affirm something: these sessions as single elements that constitute only a moment in time. One day a guy is up, next day his legs are tired and he struggles through practice. Nobody in training camp has 11 great practices in a row. What I look for our trends, situations and performances that happen on a regular basis.

Memorize that last line and you'll be able to analyze camp that much better.

It was a rainy morning in River Falls, WI, and because of that, the Kansas City Chiefs worked out inside. Here are a few updates from UW-RF site and WPI. The AM practice pictures are here. The Chiefs should be taking the practice field around 3 PM for a more robust practice session.

• "Kansas City’s starting five on the offensive line remains, left to right, Branden Albert, Brian Waters, Rudy Niswanger, Adrian Jones and Damion McIntosh. Albert, KC’s second first-round pick, showed no ill effects from the ankle he sprained earlier this offseason, and was light on his feet."


• "The Chiefs rotated wide receivers with the first-team offense. Dwayne Bowe, Bobby Sippio, Devard Darling, Jeff Webb and Will Franklin all received reps with Brodie Croyle under center. Oliver Hoyte, Mike Cox and Chris Manderino split reps at fullback."


• "Dwayne Bowe is full of energy. With Jared Allen gone, he’s definitely the heartbeat of this year’s Chiefs team. Today he played free safety with the walkthrough defense (normally comprised of offensive backups), and playfully acted like he might deliver a big hit to anyone who caught a ball in front of him, including his cousin Bobby Sippio. Bowe stayed after the walkthrough for an energetic game of catch with tight end Tony Gonzalez and linebacker Donnie Edwards."


• "Head Coach Herm Edwards held a press conference at the close of practice. He discussed the importance of holding a walk-through versus a full-strength practice. "We have so many young guys; it’s good to give them a walk-through like this," Edwards said. He also said this morning’s walk-through would settle the players’ anxiety and serve as a teaching session. Walk-throughs also give the special teams’ players an opportunity to run more drills. The only injury Edwards said was affecting the team right now was the recovery rookie wide receiver Kevin Robinson. Edwards said that Robinson had his knee cleaned out about a month ago. "He’s on the mend," said Edwards, "but he should be ready to play in the preseason game at Chicago.'"


• "Tamba Hali and Ron Edwards were two of the defensive linemen who saw quality time during the mock-snap drills. Rookie DaJuan Morgan was also seeing some first-string time in the safety position. Throughout the practice, the defense seemed more leisure than the offense, primarily focusing on one drill, using only two strings of players."

Oh man, it felt good to post this. Training camp has officially started! More updates later tonight and don't forget about AP's birthday tomorrow! We're turning two!

I'm almost positive that this Bob Gretz article from the mothership is in response to this one from Jon at MVN but judge for yourself. First, Jon's point about the Chiefs signing first round picks:

Ryan Sims’ Dad made a pretty glaring accusation a few months ago that Carl Peterson has a history of low-balling first round picks. He claims that at the NFL Draft, many NFL teams warned him about Peterson’s ways. While so many were quick to brush this off and claim that because Sims was fat and lousy as a player, he has no credibility. I, on the other hand, became concerned as to whether there is any truth to his comment. Quietly, Peterson has racked up a very lousy recent track record of bringing first round picks to camp on time. Dwayne Bowe was a holdout. Tamba Hali made it to camp literally hours before camp started. Derrick Johnson was a holdout (albeit, a short one). Ryan Sims was a holdout. John Tait was a holdout. Sylvester Morris was a holdout. The only recent player to make it to camp in plenty of time was Larry Johnson.

And here's part of what Gretz wrote and was posted this morning:

Based on what they write and what they say, who could possibly think otherwise that the Chiefs drag their feet and are extra tough in negotiations, especially when it comes to their earliest selections.

The truth, however, is something quite different. Over the most recent five-year period of signing first-round picks (2003-07), the Chiefs rank in the middle of the league when it comes to getting their first choice signed. They are neither the team that is the earliest of signers or the latest. They aren’t even close to being the team that suffers the most first round holdouts.

Gretz uses the end of July as his measure of what a hold out is because if a player gets into camp by August, he's only missing a few days of practice. I think that's a valid measure.

I think they're both right (Ha, way to take a stand I know). While Gretz is correct that at least recently the Kansas City Chiefs have done a decent job of getting picks signed in a timely fashion, Jon is also correct to point that Carl Peterson does indeed have a bad reputation when it comes to contract negotiations. What's missing from Gretz's article is other contract negotiations, not necessarily rookie ones. Jon ends with a valid point:

There seems to be a huge divide between the players and the front office. Kyle Turley ranted on Sirius NFL Radio shortly after his retirement about the front office’s tactics. Greg Wesley accused the Chiefs of lying to him about their intention to release him. Trent Green was clearly not happy about the way he was let loose (and long-revered Chief Will Shields chimed in on Sirius NFL Radio that he concurred). The Chiefs are having a hard enough time attracting marquee talent in Kansas City; they can’t afford to lose players because they can’t put up with the management.

And there's the point to be made about Carl Peterson that Gretz doesn't mention. It's not about just the rookie contracts. It's about resigning players without BS. That, is something that Carl Peterson can't claim to have done successfully and is really the whole point of this debate.

Let us know your thoughts in the comment section, where I'll flesh out my thoughts throughout the day.