Chiefs OC Brian Daboll On Matt Cassel
by Joel Thorman on Feb 8, 2012 9:00 AM CST
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PrintWhen the Kansas City Chiefs brass came out last week and said there would be competition for Matt Cassel at quarterback I was a little taken back by it. I had trouble processing exactly what that meant because the Chiefs have never really wavered on their support for Cassel and, despite what was said last week, he's never really been faced with a quarterback competition he could lose.
The Chiefs hired Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator and judging by his initial comments to the KC media it sure sounds like Cassel will be the man in 2012.
"I have a lot of confidence in Matt," Daboll said. "I've known Matt for a while. He's a smart player."
Now, to be fair, Daboll's not going to say anything but positive things about Cassel in his initial press outing so this doesn't necessarily mean anything. But it continues to look like Cassel will be the Chiefs starting quarterback in 2012.
As for the rest of the offense, Daboll pointed out that there's a lot of talent on the team.
"I think at the skill spots, we have some young, dynamic players with [Dexter] McCluster and [Jamaal] Charles. [Dwayne] Bowe is a free agent, but he's a heck of a receiver. And then the [Jonathan] Baldwin kid from Pittsburgh, big, he can make acrobatic catches. Tony [Moeaki], who's been injured, but I remember looking at him coming out of college from Iowa, I think he's a very skillful tight end."
He's right -- there's a lot of talent on the Chiefs offense, at least on paper. Dwayne Bowe, Jonathan Baldwin, Steve Breaston, Jamaal Charles, Tony Moeaki...there's a lot to like.
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He must have just completed a 5yard pass in this picture.
RonSkitzo FOR PREZ BRAH
by dbakerku on Feb 8, 2012 9:07 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
Either that or..
just missed a 5yrd pass.
An artist formely known as, xxBAxx816
Chiefs 2012 Record will be 12-4, AFC West Champs!!
BJ Penn, the best P4P fighter on the planet.
Chael Sonnen is the savior of the UFC MW divison.
Team Zing!
LMAO.
5 Yards??! Really? Sweet… THAT’S a ‘deep ball’ in KC.
Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is a NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!!!
by ARROWHEADSHANE on Feb 8, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
That made me laugh!
I hope we can upgrade the qb position, Cassel would make a good backup here.
That's not what Scotty thinks
Cassel must have some blackmail photos on Pioli the way he’s protected around Arrowhead.
by Full Metal Jayhawk on Feb 8, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
I think your completely correct. Any hopes that any of us have towards RGIII, Manning
or any other alternative are between slim and none. Daboll is another attempt to make Cassel a success to save Pioli’s face. All our discussions here are basically a waste of time. Get, “yes man” coaches and Pioli can call all the shots and run the ship exactly the way he wants. It appears also that he has Clark in the palm of his hands. All of this talent that the Chief’s have will be wasted the next few years on the Cassel experiment. BS
Oh for goodness sake.
Do you remember that Pioli was not the only freaking guy going after Matt Cassel in 2009? Do you? Good grief, everyone who needed a QB wanted him. He hasn’t panned out for whatever reason, but Pioli isn’t being stubborn and trying to save face, because everyone had the same face. He doesn’t really have a whole lot of options QB wise. He’s not going to spew a bunch of draft picks. He may bring back Orton (they’ve said they’re going to try), he may go after Manning if he’s healthy. We don’t know yet.
But no one is dumb enough to destroy their legacy by being too stubborn to yank a player if he needs to be yanked. The fact that Cassel was a highly sought after player just ruins this silly argument.
by bossmanham on Feb 8, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I agree with this
accusing Pioli for forcing the team to stick with Cassel at the risk of hosing his own legacy is suck a crock. If there’s a good way for him to go after Pey Pey or RG3 he’ll do it. But he won’t do it if it means putting other aspects of the team in unnecessary risk.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
yes sir
Everyone acts like taking a risk on cassel with a second rounder was a huge mistake. The fact is, it was a great move on piolis part. We didnt then and didnt now overpay for him..Is he or should he be oyr future QB is another question. But its not like Pioli dumped off a whole lot to get him..Shit happens in the NFL. Things dont always pan out the way it is designed.
by TheScreenName on Feb 8, 2012 11:59 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
Given the options available, Cassel was the best move at the time.
It didn’t work out. Now the question is: what do they do about it?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Agreed there too
I wholeheartedly supported the signing of #7. He WAS the best option at the time. Look at the KC QBs then…Thigpen, Croyle and God only know who else. Yes, #7 was better than those clowns…but then again, Palko was probably their equal.
It has been shown that it is time to improve the position, not sit tight and wait (a la CPete). Will he make the move? That is the question that will define his time in KC, to me anyway.
In accordance with the prophecy
Heres the part people are not understanding ( not you)
Just because there is QBs available via draft and/or free agency, doesnt mean they are worth what they want/need to get them. Only a handful that are AVAILABLE, IMO, are better( experience being a factor too) than Cassel , Orton being one of them.
So you take this small handful. Now you have to not only deal with how many draft picks it is going to take to move up or spend to get this QB, but also if you even have a buyer. If there is a buyer, you have the chances that you way over spent, which is bad business in any walk of life. On top of that, you have the chance that the QB doesnt want to play here no matter what you pay him. Then, add the possibility that our scouts seen something that are making them avoid certain players contrary to what you hear on ESPN ( Aaron Curry).
As fans, we just expect our team to sign every single person who is on the market without realizing what might take place behind closed doors. I am all for going after the big named QB but not if we overpay for it. There wasnt too many options for us at QB position from the year we traded for Cassel up until the end of this season.
2009- The year we traded for Cassel & Vrabel for second rounder (close enough to a first rounder). low risk/ high reward move.
2010- Too hard to judge Cassel off the one year he had here in 2009. Wasnt bad or great. Obvious choice to roll with him for 2010 season as Weis was our OC. Put up pretty solid numbers and we went to playoffs.
2011- Another obvious choice that we had to go with him after the 2010 year. No reason to jump yet. Offense was invisible. Cassel gets hurt, we grab the best QB we could at the time which was Orton.
For people to talk shit about Pioli over this Cassel thing is kinda ridiculous. He played the cards the way it should have been played. There was not enough info to jump from Cassel in the 3 years. I feel now though, there is. This year should be the year PIoli does go aggressive after a QB. If we dont land anyone, there could be other factors then Pioli being cheap or not pursuing them. Okay. Im done
by TheScreenName on Feb 8, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I disagreed with the Cassel move in 2009.
Seemed like cart-before-the-horse, to me, but then Pioli only seemed to figure out that the line play was poor after training camp began. This was something we fans knew as far back as DV’s ?3rd? retirement.
Get the trenches squared-away as quickly as possible, and have something at least DECENT up front, before sticking your $60-million man behind them. I keep coming back to Kurt Warner being expendable after Mike Martz and the FO let the St. Louis O-Line deteriorate, year by year, while all they did was worry about skill players. Warner led the Cards to the SB after being considered expendable by a substandard team. Chiefs were substandard. They’re CLOSE to standard, but not outstanding, so now is the time to be looking for QB, but if we’d done things in proper sequence, that QB would be coming into a SWEET situation. Instead, we went after Cassel, and threw him to the wolves. Now, we’re not even sure he’ll be any good after they get their shit together up front.
would of ≠ would've
umm, i have to disagree here
We used a second rounder for cassel AND vrabel.. if we didnt make that move, who would have been the qb? I agree that it starts with the line but there is a fine balance between manning up the line and filling other areas as well… We made a move and though it hasnt produced superbowls, it hasnt been that bad either…
Maybe you and a few others disagreed with that move at the time, but id like to see the approval pole on it. My point is that since we traded for cassel, there was never any real reason to move away from him yet until this year.. he shut up even the biggest of cassel haters during mid to late part of 2010…So for people to put this on Pioli as if he made moron moves regarding Cassel, is just insane. This would be the year criticism would be deserving if they dont at least take long looks at potential QBs.
by TheScreenName on Feb 8, 2012 11:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Meh.
A high 2nd-rounder on a team in total disarray up front should be spent on the trenches. Spending the 2nd on Cassel “AND Vrabel” was a waste, in my opinion. Find some unencumbered journeyman FA and build your fuckin’ team, sez I. Cassel was the highest-rated FA QB in the 2008 offseason, but probably not the most successful FA QB in the 2009 season. I’d rather have that pick for OL and be a whole freakin’ YEAR ahead of where the Chiefs are, now. Same for the McCluster pick. OL or DL at that spot.
would of ≠ would've
What you say makes sense
But, to play the devil’s advocate, if he (Pioli) does indeed recognize that #7 is not the answer…what the hell is he doing waiting around? A lot will be said about Pioli’s will to improve the team (the ENTIRE team) if he makes a sincere play at a difference maker at the QB position. If not, then it isn’t illogical to assume that he is indeed completely married to the success/failure of #7.
In accordance with the prophecy
I think he probably thinks Cassel is good enough, given enough talent around him.
But at the chance to get a better QB I don’t think he’d scoff.
He hasn't really had an opportune time to switch QBs before this off-season.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Who says he's waiting around.
He did draft a QB last year already as a hedge bet to get things started. He’s already said he is going to bring in more competition this offseason unless he’s bold faced lying. Problem with some fans is he hasn’t made the exact moves they want him too. Which are what exactly? I’d love to know the great alternatives they’ve had. Draft Mark Sanchez? lol.
The guy is hardly sitting on his hands, and has had a roster full of holes to fill on top of just the QB. He’s done a pretty decent job of filling a lot of them already in a short amount of time. Really, what percentage of players on the current roster were on that ‘08 team before he took over? I’m guessing it’s pretty small.
You make very fair points
But you can’t seriously expect us to think that bringing in Palko as “competition” for #7 and Stanzi was Pioli wanting to have a better QB than #7, can you?
True, lots of people only like their choices, I concede that point. However, it is insulting to see the one guy they bring in during FA be Tyler “I’ve Been Overrated My Whole Life” Palko as the “serious” competition for #7. Even more insulting than that is being fed the line, with a straight face, that this is a legitimate move.
And you are exactly right about the number of holes on the roster. There are/were many. Problem is, Urban may have been a better QB than Palko and he was a WR…a BAD WR.
In accordance with the prophecy
Tell me where any other team in the NFL does any differently with their GM:
Get, "yes man" coaches and [GM] can call all the shots and run the ship exactly the way he wants.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
by Tomahawk29 on Feb 8, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How many chances does Cassel get?
How many times do we blame the head coach, offensive coordinator, injuries, or some other reason before this organization looks at Cassel himself?
If Cassel is the starter this year
I think this is his last chance to prove that Belichick didn’t’ pull the wool over everyone’s eyes
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
completrly agree with this statement
This is Cassels last year to prove he can start for this team. If he has a good season, they probably continue with him. I can imagine they’d still be looking at opportunities to upgrade the position but I would feel it would be with a greater sense of urgency if he was terrible rather than good. Either way, probably need to change my screen name..
Time to take back the AFC West
Go Chiefs
by King of the Cassel on Feb 8, 2012 2:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
C'mon Coady
The AP doesn’t try to figure out why a player is not playing good and fixing the problem, they just want the player or coach gone if we lose a few games in a row. If you want Pioli and Cassel gone than don’t go to the games,
There are only a few AP fans who support Cassel,Most of the AP hates Cassel. What are the AP going to say about Cassel if he does good next year? The fact is, The play calling for Cassel sucked, The O line pass protection sucked, The WR play from Bowe was inconsistent. The Play calling for Palko and Orton was a lot more aggressive than it was for Cassel. I believe Haley set Cassel up failure with the conservative play calling,
Haley wants to run the ball, that is why he is going to the Steelers. When Haley was in Arizona he didn’t even call the plays for Warner.
Coady season ticket holders are the most loyal fans, they go to game when it rains, snows or cold weather.For a season ticket holder to pay 3,300 dolars a year for tickers gives them the right to vent when things are going bad. I no longer live in KC,We as Chiefs fans need you to go to the games and give us home field advantage. If you can afford the tickets, don’t give up on the Chiefs even if Cassel fails next year.
Coady don’t get pissed off at Cassel when we have not even played a game this year.
That is a waste of time and energy. This year if he doesn’t play good Boo him off the field, If he does good Cheer for him. I’m worried about our RT and LG, If we keep B- Rich and Lilja at their position than we need to have good play calling to cover up our weakness.
Peace Out for a couple of weeks.
He may not have been the whole problem
but he was part of it
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
YOU GO STAND BEHIND A SWISS CHEESE LINE WITH ABOUT A TWO SECOND OR LESS WINDOW BEFORE 350 POUNDS OF MANBEARPIG IS ON TOP OF YOU.
Do ANY of you clowns remember Orton’s FIRST play from scrimmage. We were lucky he didin’t end up on IR. But by all means blame Cassell, it’s the easy thing to do.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
by crashman6 on Feb 8, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Do u also remember the one sack Orton took in his 3 games here?
Do you?
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Feb 8, 2012 11:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wait, does this have anthing to do with ability to read a defense
and quick release?
What's the difference between jelly and jam?
Well, not waiting for 30 secionds to have the play called in on time has a lot to do with how well someone can read a defense.
But go ahead, like I said, blame Cassel, it’s the EASY thing to do.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Bro, there are problems on the line for sure...
But Cassel is still part of the issue here.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Feb 8, 2012 11:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Reading the defense after the snap has nothing to do with the play clock
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
I don't think Orton's reading the D all that great AFTER the snap, but his understanding and
his anticipation are clearly a cut above. But I’ve seen enough plays where the defense deceived him by going counter-to-tendencies with their pre-snap look and Orton sticking with his pre-snap read, rather than seeing what the D actually DID.
If Orton sticks, I’ll get to see how good he is at parsing the defense after the snap. The best QBs have that overall understanding and have done due diligence in the film room. I think Orton does all of that stuff. But man he’s not very maneuverable.
would of ≠ would've
It IS worth noting that Orton only took 1 sack in 3 games, isn't it?
And that Brady, with the same line as Cassel, took about a third as many sacks.
It’s not all his fault. But there seems to be a correlation there…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Been saying this for weeks.
It mostly just falls on deaf ears. It’s not all on the OL.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
Thing is, the style of play was different for Cassel.
He was expected to run around and take some chances. It was their scheme for him and that overrated O-Line. We talk about how few sacks Brady took behind that same line, forgetting that that same line got Brady on IR after a handful of plays against the worst pass-rushing team in the league, in the first game of the 2008 season.
And despite all the praise for New England in 2007, it looked to me like they were winning with a lot of smoke and mirrors, behind a pretty weak offensive line. It took the Giants fundamentally sound defense and good-enough offense to break those mirrors and clear some of that smoke.
would of ≠ would've
Oh, I'm here, but unlike some of you I have a job to tend to.
No sacks in three games don’t mean crap.
Given time and receivers that don’t drop balls, Cassell is not as bad as all of you make him out to be.
Back to work.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Cassel is worse than we make him out to be
But its not his fault. Never his fault. Everyone’s fault but Cassel’s.
Nice conjecture. You seem to have little grasp on reality.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Dude
The bottom line is that behind the same OL with the same “weapons” Orton only took one sack in three games. One. Orton, unlike #7, recognizes, by alignment, where guys will be and who will likely be open. Then, he does something quite insane and goes through his progressions. Add to that his release (which is MUCH quicker than “Ball Pat” #7) and you get the idea. Orton had guys drop balls. Orton missed some throws. Yet, he made the offense look like an NFL offense. True, they didn’t score. That is a result of zero run game. No excuses there, points need to happen. But to say #7 is blameless in this steaming, hot mess is silly.
In accordance with the prophecy
Orton got his plays sooner than Cassel, Haley was gone.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
or Orton was able to read defenses better and then there is always this
Nothing against (Palko) or (Cassel), man, just — Kyle is a new beast out there with us," fullback Le’Ron McClain said. “He ran the whole game on the sideline, coming to us on certain plays, telling us in the huddle — boom, boom, ‘Just get open for me right here.’ ”
This doesnt to mean he thought Orton was a HOf QB but it tells me that he had a much greater grasp on how to play QB in the NFL than Matt and Palko.
Orton knew not only what he was supposed to do and was capable of doing it but he knew where they were supposed to be as well as what the defense was doing .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 8, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions
1 TD, and how many picks in 3 games?
2!
Yeah, Orton is Sooooo much better than MC over a three game sample.
Really?
I’ll give Orton the benefit of the doubt as well and acknowkledge the TD pass Bowe dropped in the endzone during the Raiders game.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Orton also saw a doubleteam of Baldwin pre-snap, but failed to recognize
BOTH defenders had cement in their shoes, and the target Orton dismissed was wide-open, while Orton forced the ball over the middle for the interception. You can fool Orton with pre-snap. Show one thing and do another, and he’s toast.
Maybe that changes with more time in the offense, but it’s definitely something I saw in Orton.
Also, Orton LOST that game against the Raiders. He WON the surprise game against the Packers, but they had no defense, and their O-Line blew up, which made Rodgers MEAT for our pass rush.
I agree, though, that Orton’s grasp of tendencies and formations seems far above Cassel’s. I’m not sure how much of that has to do with Haley’s departure. Orton also has a stronger arm than Cassel, by a pretty wide margin, imo.
would of ≠ would've
I din't say he was blameless. But to blame ALL failures on the QB is absolutely short sighted.
And that is the tone here at Ape Pride.
You would think it was Cassel that blew out Jamaal, Eric’s and Tony’s knee. Or knocked Bowe down before he DROPPED a pass.
Every article that mentions MC is FILLED with mindless drooling hate.
“Orton had guys drop balls. Orton missed some throws. Yet, he made the offense look like an NFL offense. True, they didn’t score. That is a result of zero run game. No excuses”
Yeah Cassel had a run game I forgo…oh, wait.
Freaking pathetic.Those are the same things that happened to Matt and yet those were excuses to perople like you. Are you freaking joking. Because buddy if your not that is some WEAK sauce brother.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Wow
Speechless actually. Sorry you see it this way.
To continue your line of thought…Damn #7 for hiring Daboll!
In accordance with the prophecy
This is Dead Horse Beating territory.
Most of us have been pretty patient with Cassel, but the longer we watch, the more we see lack of awareness as a major issue with the guy. Brady, with much less to work with as far as foot speed, does more to evade pressure and make good throws than Cassel has ever shown. When Cassel locks in downfield, he’s likely to stumble straight into an easily avoided pass rusher, and when he’s showing good awareness of the pass rush, he’s missing wide-open targets down the field.
Cassel’s done some pretty good things on plays that go exactly as designed, but there doesn’t seem to be much beyond “pull it down and run” when a little more creativity is called for. What does he DO with the extra time his feet buy him? He doesn’t seem to recognize when he SHOULD use his feet to evade, for instance, a 3-man rush, but because the quick pass is dialed-up for fear of pass rush, he’s forcing the ball into triple coverage, rather than realizing he has time and room to let something develop. Not very good at using his blockers.
Roethlisberger is a PLODDER by comparison to Cassel, when it comes to foot speed, but Big Ben senses where his guy is and where the pass rusher is, and USES his blocker to keep the pass rusher in a bad position. Cassel’s just as likely to HELP the pass rusher, by NOT sensing the geometry/momentum of the situation. This is hard to put into words, but some guys have an instinct for setting up blocks and some don’t.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Feb 8, 2012 10:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually if I remember correctly, at the Oakland game I attended Christmas Eve, he was flushed from the pocket several times and had the ball stripped from his hand by an Oakland defender. Plus, he was sacked at Denver.
Is that what you guys do, make shit up to defend your myopic view of a TEAM sport?
Keep it up guys you’re doing great.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Check the stats
How many times was he sacked?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
He was sacked once in 3 games...
That’s not made up shit. I believe even Muir said the reason the online looked much better the last 3 games was because of Orton. You keep saying all this made up shit like this is some mystery. Is the online good? Probably not, but it looks a whole hell of a lot worse when Cassel is the qb.
The one sack stat isn't made up
Check it out. Wow, now you’re denying facts to support your argument.
I would, but I played FS when I played football so I would suck back there
and that same line gave up only 1 sack when Orton was starting
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
I'm not a clown
I do not wear big floppy shoes for your enjoyment
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Big feet.
Gives his toes more wiggle room.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 8, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
You mean when we ran a play that takes FOREVER to develop
And he hit his hand on someone’s helmet on the follow through?
Yeah. Why?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
On the very same play where a rookie OL turned his back on a rush lane
the very same.
In accordance with the prophecy
On that note Orton played better in 3 games then Cassel did all season..
Orton beat undefeated Packers with that same line, made reads and got rid of the ball quickly. Didnt eye just one receiver and freak out when there was pressure..Also it was the same line last year when cassel threw for 27 TDS and everyone said he was the man.. I thinks its time to stop with all the excuses and just move on.. Seriously!
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Feb 8, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The DEFENSE and the Packers beat the Packers. Not Kyle Orton alone.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
True, but i think that controlling the clock, and making the right reads, 3rd down conversion and a balanced attack was also the reason we beat the pack.
But the D gave the rest of the league a blue print there’s no denying that.
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Feb 8, 2012 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
And that was all on Orton, Cassel would have never done that in that big of a game for KC
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Feb 8, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
PURE SPECULATION
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Cassel wasn't the problem?
Even if that was true, he sure wasn’t the answer.
He was the main problem, along with Palko.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
I was pretty sure Daboll didn't have a clue.
Then he goes and calls Cassell a “smart player?” Now I know he’s an idiot.
Yeah, he should have called him an idiot.
by Tarkus on Feb 8, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That signifies a few things, but none of which are that he isn't smart
To execute looking at all his options before checking down does require that he have enough time to perform said activity.
Is he guilty of staring down his primary target at times? Absolutely. Many QBs are guilty of the same. But where was this knock on him when he spread the ball around very well in 2010? Did he suddenly get dumb?
Well, Bowe had about the same percentage of the team's receptions in 2010 and 2011, so I don't think the ball was spread around much differently either year.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Well he is an idiot
That is the criteria for not being smart duhh…
by readANDgold58 on Feb 8, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Someone can be a smart player and not be a good player
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Yep. Tyler Palko is a smart player.
We need a really good QB. Not a coach-in-training…
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
You do realize your post is quite Ironic given your signature.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
This of course
One of the biggest red flags to this hiring, it says hey look what this guy can do with Matt Moore…let’s stick with Cassel again!
Ugh….
by Spiderwomn69 on Feb 8, 2012 10:59 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
I'll believe otherwise
when I see it.
Still excited to see what he does with McCluster.
by Spiderwomn69 on Feb 8, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
That was my gut reaction
when I heard of Daboll’s hiring. Until I see this actual QB competition or an attempt to do something different at QB then I believe that again for another season we stick with Cassel who has yet to be consistent from year to year.
by Spiderwomn69 on Feb 8, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
I have never seen such a polarizing figure in KC
With weapons around him, he showed he is capable of winning 11 games against a first place schedule.
In 2009 we were garbage and it should not have been a surprise that he did not set the world on fire.
2010- 27 and 7
2011- loses feature back, loses TE, 1st round pick is out first 5 games, fan base consistently bemoans the conservative playcalling, yet after the Halloween game, a good percentage here was back behind him. Then they lost two, he got hurt, and now he is apparently worse than Tyler Palko.
I am not in any way saying Cassel is a star, stud, or anything like it. But he is treated here like he gives half-effort, like he is the worst QB in the league.
I’m just in awe daily at the blind hate towards anything Cassel related, when we have had very few QBs in the last decade who at least have shown that they have a willingness to learn and improve, will give up their body for the team, and have the respect of his teammates and coaches. Not even Huard, Croyle, or anyone else has faced this kind of treatment and I do not think it’s fair.
Cue the hammering of the guy who defended Cassel. Note I never said he was a star or “the answer”. I just think every day it becomes more and more unfair how he is treated.
You have a lot of guts. Oh, and by the way, you are correct.
Not even Huard, Croyle, or anyone else has faced this kind of treatment and I do not think it’s fair.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Feb 8, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
None of those guys got paid like a franchise QB.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Just wish Cassels good and bad plays didn't even out
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
A direct result of his play
The love / hate goes hand and hand with his inconstant play.
First, I have no blind hate, I was looking forward to seeing him continue to grow and develop into a better QB, but instead he regressed. Again. It would be one thing if this just happened only last year because of injuries. We can go back and forth and blame the situation and everything that happened to the team from Haley to the revolving door at OC. It does not make him a better QB to blame the situation. He can be a probowl QB with the #1 rushing backfield, but as soon as that’s gone he dives well below average? I’m sorry I’m not buying it that a pro QB can’t have any production and show some little inkling of consistency. We had a crap QB situation all of last season but Bowe still managed to produce so again, not buying that a pro QB can’t hold it together because of the situation around him.
by Spiderwomn69 on Feb 8, 2012 11:32 AM CST up reply actions
So for instance
when Jay Cutler had no OL and was awful in 2010, and received more help in 2011 before his injury and was a Top 5 QB, you would say that the situation around him had nothing to do with that? He is a pro QB.
Hmmmm... I see your point
I am not going to argue situation, every QB on every team has something to deal with. My point is that he is either good or really bad. From season to season and even game to game he swings back and forth. On the plus side his record indicates this year should be a good one for him so if we’re stuck with him at QB we have that going for us…
by Spiderwomn69 on Feb 8, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
Cutler has always had the physical tools and everyone knew it.
Cassel proves his limitations year in and year out. You improve his situation and he is still the guy who can’t take the top off a defense on a consistent basis and telegraphs his targets.
This is the precise issue.
Cassel has no upside.
The guy has a weak arm, which can be overcome if you are accurate with the football. Problem is that he is a weak armed, inaccurate thrower, which I suppose could be overcome if you were excellent at reading progressions and finding the open receiver (which he can’t), which I suppose could be overcome if you had excellent pocket presence and ability to avoid sacks, which he doesn’t.
A guy with this sort of skill set would usually have a hard time starting in college, never mind the NFL.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
I see what you did there
with that last line.
KC’s “#1 QB” was a back up TE in college. Wow.
In accordance with the prophecy
Cutler actually had his best Chicago QB rating in 2010 according to Yahoo, 86.3.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Good catch
but using the eye test, he was pretty bad in 2010. I mean even Tebow rates highly in the QB rating. But I will admit, I was unaware of that statistic.
Tebow was 27th in rating last year.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
The only way for Cutler to have a CHANCE on some of those teams he played for
was to take big risks, of the Brett Favre variety. Favre’s career was salvaged by dominant wideouts, starting with Brooks and Freeman, not to mention some pretty darn good TEs (Sharpe, Chmura, IIRC). You give those gunslingers great WRs and just let ‘em chuck the ball around to the single-covered guy, wherever he is. A lot of Favre’s most famous “great passes” would’ve been considered ill-advised and poorly executed, were it not for a helluva lot of circus catches.
would of ≠ would've
Nothing against Favre or Cutler, here, but Cutler's never had anything close to a complete offense around him, imo.
We’ll see if he lasts long enough for Chicago to get their shit together, but KR converts and Roy Williams ain’t gettin’ it done, and that’s to say nothing of that crap O-Line he’s played behind.
would of ≠ would've
"I just think every day it becomes more and more unfair how he is treated."
Steve, you are entitled to your opinion of Cassel, just like we all are. However, you are being unrealistic if you don’t see the flaws in Cassel’s performance throughout his time with the Chiefs.Unlike you seem to feel, I feel that an individual should be praised when he does well and criticized when he performs poorly. IMO, Cassel has performed poorly more often than not since he’s been the Chiefs’ QB. Granted, some of his poor play can be attributed to poor play-calling, even when Weis was here, while most appears to be because he lacks intelligence and ability.
I admit that Cassel has shown some brilliant play on many occasions with his heart and determination. However, on most occasions, as has been pointed out by many on this site, that he lacks the ability to properly read defenses and alter the play when necessary, lacks the ability to accurately deliver the ball, too often lacks pocket awareness, too slow in making good decisions, too often focuses solely on his primary target, and posseses a bad case of tunnel vision. All QBs, at times, appear to show signs of these aforementioned flaws, but Cassel shows them most of the time.
Most of the flaws in Cassel’s game are correctable and should have been corrected. However, the fact that he has shown little to no improvement shows either lack of dedication to his game or lack of intelligence and ability. I would love to meet him and sit down and talk with him about the things I’ve mentioned. I think Cassel has shown himself to be a very nice person with a lot of heart and courage. I had a few student pilots that possessed the same attributes, but I and other instructers could not teach them to fly well enough for us to feel justified in sending them off to defend our country. A few slipped thru the cracks and ended up killing themselves and others.
IMO, Cassel is good enough to be some teams, even the Chiefs’ backup QB, but unless he makes big improvement, he should not be the Chiefs’ starting QB this year.
by Flyboy26 on Feb 8, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Great response
Very little I can disagree with. One thing I think we can agree on is that he has been at his best when he was receiving stable coordinating and coaching. Here’s to hoping some continuity from this point on will benefit him, be it as a starter or a backup.
Even in Cassel's "good stretches," they were protecting him with scheme.
It’s the sort of thing that’s gonna bite ’em in the playoffs and against playoff teams in regular season.
I’d love to be wrong, because I often see problems with QBs get ironed-out by just a LITTLE better protection or just a LITTLE better running game. Everybody tends to MISS it, though, instead concluding that such-and-such a coach is a real guru, when it was just a matter of raising the mean time before sack from 2.3 seconds to 3.3 seconds.
would of ≠ would've
Great points Flyboy. I completely agree with your points and would never question the
personal character of Cassel. In every respect, he seems to be a great guy, but IMO, not a good QB. One of the best examples is 2010. The Chief’s were playing a last place schedule and did well most of the time and Cassel looked good but then the last game against the Raiders and the Ravens, the pressure level was raised and he bombed. Most people here have watched the Chief’s and pro-football for many years and it does not take a genis to see when a QB has what it takes and when he does not. From now on, after three years of a trial, every game that Cassel starts is a waste of the talent that this team has and it’s up to Pioli to get a better QB in here. That’s all there is to it.
The OTHER side of that argument is that those last-place teams were last-placers, because of poor line play.
Look at those games that KC won in 2010: When they were winning up front, they won the games fairly soundly. Then they stole a couple games against better-stocked teams. thru preparation and some quirky playcalling that wrong-footed opponents. But both Oakland and Baltimore OWNED the Chiefs up front.
Bewsaf would come on here, and we’d go WOW! Looks like Lilja and Wiegs are pretty damn good! or Kalo would come on and we’d see Ron Edwards had a GREAT GAME! NEITHER was the case; rather, when they played against 2nd-tier competition, they did very well, and when they faced good competition, they were thrashed.
Coming out of 2010, KC was hovering around #16 in terms of play in the trenches, imo. To take the next step to the SB, they needed to get into the top 5 or 10, and they made NO progress in the trenches. Kelly Gregg was OK, but not a huge upgrade. Asamoah was no upgrade for Waters. At best, a wash. Hudson never started (unless Lilja was hurt). They made no progress up front (other than Houston), and were exposed in 2011 for their mediocrity in the trenches. Cassel was and is pretty much middle-of-the-road, as well. Upgrade there would be nice, but I prefer to lock up the big men, first.
would of ≠ would've
Well said Flyboy26
Never argue with an Idiot...... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
sometimes I wonder how they would do that chalk outline, if you pushed someone into a tree chipper.
The only way to treat Cassel fairly is to upgrade the quarterback position
That’s all I’m asking for. I know he’s not an idiot. I know he’s a good guy who tries hard and works on not making mistakes. I gave him three years to prove everyone wrong. I went along with the excuses year by year. I defended him in 2009 because it was all brand new. I defended in in ’10 because even though the Chiefs went 10-6, there were still things he could improve on and ’11 should have been the year.
But enough is enough. The injuries are no excuse, they were in fact an exposure of his physical talent. We’ve gotten so used to choppy play at the QB position that Orton looked awesome. That should tell you enough. Everyone who defends Cassel to be the starter completely ignores his pocket presence, release, reading progressions, and arm strength. The fact that we can upgrade from this should be a no brainer.
by old_school on Feb 8, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely
and I make no bones about it, that if we can upgrade without compromising the future of our drafts, I would more than welcome it.
This says it all
We’ve gotten so used to choppy play at the QB position that Orton looked awesome. That should tell you enough
by Spiderwomn69 on Feb 8, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you.
I’ve been a bit of a Cassel apologist before in the sense that he is the best option we have on the roster.
Having seen the offense move without Haley and with Orton back there, it just leaves me wanting more than when the team was all three and outs and blow outs. Hopefully, Stanzi will come along this year, and there will be another QB in the mix for that “competition.”
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Daboll was asked about Cassel.
What do people here think he should have said? He sucks? We can’t win with him? Oh noes, we need to trade up for RG3 or sign Manning?
If Mike Singletary can say it, so can Daboll
We can’t win with him
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
You know, the former NFL HC who was fired.
That guy who went 6-10 and the next season with the same roster the team goes to the NFC championship game with a new HC.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 8, 2012 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying he should say it
just saying he can say it
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Of course he can.
He can be a complete idiot. Hopefully we didn’t hire a complete idiot to run our offense.
I dont understand why people want/expect Daboll to come in and start insulting his new players
Not sure how that helps him or the team.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 8, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
Nothing endears potential free agents to a team
than to publicly trash current players in the media. I’m sure potential QB prospects LOVE the idea of a GM/coach telling the world how much they suck if they end up signing a deal then struggling at some point.
Mike Singeltary
and he benched a player for half assing it, personally if a players not going to give a 100% he needs to be benched.
Never argue with an Idiot...... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
sometimes I wonder how they would do that chalk outline, if you pushed someone into a tree chipper.
I agree with Joel
that he would definitely say positive things about him. As well he should, but I can think of plenty of nice things he could have said, but calling him smart was the last thing I expected.
He also said he heard good things
from talking to defensive coordinators. I know it’s far fetched, but it’s just possible that Cassel is not hated around the league like he is on AP, and maybe just maybe he’s not the worst QB in the history of the NFL.
Palko wins that award hands down
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Without looking back at that interview, I don't remember that Daboll said specifically that he'd heard GOOD things from other DCs.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
If we're going to stick with Cassell
we’d better STACK our O-Line…because that’s the only way he’ll ever be anything other than mediocre.
I hope Mr Pioli treats this off-season for what it really is...a huge chance to prove himself to the fans and to Mr Hunt.
That goes for ANY QB. Did you catch Brady's pre Super Bowl interview?
He said he is lucky to have a front line that GIVES HIM TIME to find his open man.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Cassel took 47 sacks in 2008 in NE,
Brady took 21 in 2007 and 16 in 2009 with the exact same starting five linemen.
Now, I’m not trying to say first-year-starter Cassel should have been the same as Brady, but you CAN’T say that the QB doesn’t make a big difference in the effectiveness of the pass pro.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
by Brsrkr on Feb 8, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Being a "smart player" really only matters if you have the skills to go with it.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
by Scott B. on Feb 8, 2012 11:07 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I actually think the opposite.
I actually think Matt has the skills. I think his lack of football intelligence is his biggest problem. That’s why people started sending the house on him last year. He made the line look worse than it even is. Then, as mentioned previously, Orton comes in and hardly gets touched. That’s because teams knew they could not do the same thing to Orton that they did to Matt.
Dislocated finger = Hardly touched.
That makes me smile.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
It doesn't take much to dislocate a finger.
And there’s a big difference between hardly touched and never touched.
Orton was sacked in Denver. And flushed from the pocket repeatedly throughout.
Once again, you all make me smile.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
yeah but his offenses still scored pretty well while he was there and he didnt have nearly the amount of weapons that we had
by Willie Beamon on Feb 8, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
NO! HE WAS SACKED AT DENVER IN THE LAST GAME OF THE SEASON!
Jesus Cripple Christi!
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
So then what is your point?
If Orton taking only one sack means nothing and they both are getting the same amount of pressure why is it that Cassel takes sacks and Orton doesn’t? Perhaps one qauterback keeps his eyes downfield? Has a better poket awareness? Doesn’t tuck and run as soon as he is pressured? Each of those sound like basic things an NFL level quarterback can do.
A sack...singular
Why are you screaming about this? We have conceded that point to you. Yet you harp on about it. We get it. He was sacked ONCE in Denver. Can we move on?
In accordance with the prophecy
Im sure he meant when he started not when he came in for one play
Nothing against (Palko) or (Cassel), man, just — Kyle is a new beast out there with us," fullback Le’Ron McClain said. "He ran the whole game on the sideline, coming to us on certain plays, telling us in the huddle — boom, boom, ‘Just get open for me right here.’ "
then you add in things like Matt supposedly still calling out the Patriots plays etc and I could see why so many would question his in game IQ
by Willie Beamon on Feb 8, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
"Matt 'supposedly' still calling out the Patriots plays"
Source please.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
Its posted around here somewhere from a radio interview
by Willie Beamon on Feb 8, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Daboll would not say anything "negative" given the circumstances...
He just got hired… I would not expect him to throw anyone, much less his CURRENT QB1, under the bus at this point.
IMHO on the offensive plan of mngt/coach:
Coming from NE coaching tree, Pioli and Crennel expect him to bring some decent level of continuity to the E-P offense. His signing signals their willingness to work with Matt, should they NOT bring in Orton, Manning or RGIII intentionally or otherwise.
well it might be good
that cassel will have to compete for his starting job if It’s Kyle we may have a new starter if they draft another QB in the draft I also think we might have a new QB but more towards the middle end of the season hope they are really debating the RG3 possibility
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 8, 2012 11:42 AM CST via Android app reply actions
nice to see some support for cassel on here for a change.
some of you seem to genuinely enjoy being negative.
Agreed
I would not object to any upgrade at any position. But for now, he is our guy. And until he is not, I will support him as I would any other player. Maybe I am too loyal, but I was the same way about Haley. And now that he is gone, I don’t care about him. I wish him well, but he is not our guy. And if you aren’t with us, you are against us… Unfortunately, Cassel is with us and many treat him as if he played for a division rival.
Look the bottom line here is Cassel does not have what it takes to take us to the Super Bowl!! Period, point, blank!! My excitement for this upcoming season is dwindling by the day reading he’s going to be the starter next season, when there is absolutely no excuse to go after Manning if he is healthy!!! NONE!!!
by Chiefsallday25 on Feb 8, 2012 11:56 AM CST via mobile reply actions
agree take the chance already!
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 8, 2012 12:00 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
What about jah boi Darren Thomas in the 6th or 7th?
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 8, 2012 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
I'm off to lunch. Have a nice day fellas.
"...and we're gonna be ready for them"!
"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck".
So he's not an idiot, good!
Only an idiot would throw Cassel under the bus after just getting hired and having had very little time to do an in depth analysis.
At this point the comments mean nothing.
by aFan4Life on Feb 8, 2012 12:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I knew that Daboll guy was a Cassel homer...
Ban him from AP!
I think it's interesting that Daboll
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Oops.
I think it’s interesting that Daboll uses specific terms like “dynamic,” “heck of a reciever,” “acrobatic catches,” “skillful tight end” about other offensive players. But with Cassel, it’s “I have a lot of confidence in Matt.” That sounds decidedly more vague and subdued than the language he uses about the other offensive starters.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I hope you're on to something
And I REALLY hope my thought that Pioli will never replace #7 is a wrong as the day is long.
In accordance with the prophecy
Caption that photo, ok....
…and Bowe says to me, get me the ball Cassel, and i’m like alright man. Everytime i throw him the ball, or anyone the ball for the matter, its at least THIS far over their heads. I am not sure why they have kept me around, except for the fact that i have some pretty explicit pictures of Scotty the Don Pioli when he was alone with Clark.
….but you didn’t hear that from me Thomas. Remember that!
Matt Moore?
I didn’t read all of the comments, and it was likely mentioned, but Moore played quite well, the last half of the season, for Miami, and could provide some competition for Cassel, if Miami is indeed in the Peyton or Orton sweepstakes. Moore’s issue is alot like Cassel’s, he’s been inconsistent, but he did seem to thrive under Daboll’s offense, when the Dolphins went on their winning streak. Not the best option, but better than Tyler Palko, and we have yet to see Stanzi after a full offseason. I think Pioli has to be concerned about his job, if the Chiefs don’t, at the minimum, make the playoffs, and I think he will try to upgrade the QB position, even if it is only by increasing the competition for Cassel. I am pretty damn sure that we will have a reliable backup, as the Palko era displayed just how important it is to have somebody to take over, if needed. We could see Cassel, Moore (or Henne) and Stanzi (In any order). Not Manning or Brady, but a definite upgrade.
There once was a man from Nantucket......Nevermind.
by Racyman on Feb 8, 2012 7:40 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
RE: Matt Moore
Last 9 games of 2011 Chiefs offense vs Dolphins offense (ironically starting with the 31-3 blowout)
Dolphins 225 pts/25 per game
Chiefs 84 pts/9.3 pts per game
Matt Moore last 9 games
61.2% completion, 7.72 yds per attempt, 15 tds 5 ints 97.8 qb rating
Any Chiefs qb last 9 games
57.9% completion rate, 6.47 yds per attempt, 4 tds 9 ints 69.2 qb rating
Carpe Diem
orton
i dont know why there is even an orton discussion, he will not sign with kansas city end of story
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