Help Me Understand our Cap Space
by The Gentry on Feb 7, 2012 3:36 PM CST
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PrintSeveral items on the Chiefs' cap situation have been posted today, with a H/T to vplus10 for really getting me thinking about this. I feel like I'm working with only partial information.
I'm going to try to do the math, but if I mess up, please let me know what I've done wrong. I have to have done something wrong...because if my calculations are correct, we will have cap space equivalent to almost double the GDP of Tuvalu (or in other words, the amount Bill Gates makes as he drops a deuce in the Corn Palace).
- Salary cap for 2011 Season = $120.38 million
- Chiefs' were under the cap = $32.76 million (this was as of Aug. 29...didn't immediately find better info)
- Salary cap for 2012 season = $121 million(TBD, but between $121-125, so I'm going conservative)
- Players under contract for 2012 as of now = $95.84 million
In addition, we can roll the amount we were under in 2011 over to 2012 (right guys? H/T to vplus10 and bossmanham on this info!).
So that means $121MM + $32.76MM - $95.84MM = $57.92MM
Wait! We have to leave something for the rookies...that's about $5MM, so now we're down to a paltry $52.92MM that we can spend in free agency.
We have $52.92 million to work with??? Can that possibly be right? If so, then don't we end up being able to do just about anything we want in free agency?
I've never been on the "Clark is cheap" bandwagon, but if we really have this much to work within and still end up well under the 2012 cap, then I have to jump on board. With this kind of space, we should be front loading contracts with really good players.
I'm a business owner, so I understand why Clark wants to spend wisely, but every business owner also wants to WIN. And we've got a lot of key pieces in place. With nearly $53 million, we should be able to easily plug those holes up and become an instantaneous contender.
But my numbers have gotta be wrong. $53MM? My heart leaps, but my head says, 'No way.' Tell me what's up with my numbers.
Numbers from:
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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good question
you make the right point about “running a business”… people seem to think the Salary Cap is some big pool of cash sitting at Arrowhead… really, the team has to generate that revenue to be able to pay players that much… it’s like saying your credit card has a high limit and equating that to having money in the bank.
I thought they kept the money in a big vault behind the practice facility
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
But we have the money
Unless I miss my mark revenue sharing alone just about covers the cap space. and that’s before tickets, parking, merchandising etc.
Now I’ll admit the Chiefs couldn’t maintain the salaries that the Steelers are paying out($150 million!?) but they can reach the cap easily.
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
there are other costs to running the Chiefs
not saying they aren’t profitable… but it’s not like they are just sitting on 50M
Or people seem to think that the Chiefs have revenue to cover that cap space.
Here’s a little breakdown from Forbes for last year.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
I'm kind of interested as to where they got their numbers.
Everything seems accurate except for player expenses.
How does a team that’s paying less than $100 million in player salaries end up with more than $150 million in player expenses?
And why the leaps in 2008 and 2011? Outside of those years it seems like a pretty steady increase in line with revenue increase.
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
Says to the side that that includes “benefits and bonuses.”
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Also
I wonder if that includes the coaches and the GM? That had to be in the mid teens last year with Pioli/Haley/Weis/Crennel etc.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Good question.
I thought the part about the stadium was interesting, and I hadn’t seen that before:
As part of the renovation of its stadium, the Chiefs signed an amended lease in 2006 that requires the team to pay only $450,000 in annual rent and reimburses the Chiefs for stadium upkeep from county, city and state tax collections. This enables the Chief’s stadium expenses to run $4 million to $5 million lower annually than other teams that also operate their stadium.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
There's no cap at all on coaches or staff,
and they don’t count at all against the player cap.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
That isnt what we are talking about
We are talking about the numner that Forbes has as the “Player Expense” They have KC as $150mil last year. Also no where in the numbers does it account for coaches/GM.
We are not talking about actual NFL Cap.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
That's still a huge jump from $95 to $152.
and its not like we weren’t paying bonuses and coaches last year. Yet that number is much closer to our actual payroll than it was this season.
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
Signing Bonuses are pro rated...
so we could technically spend more than that. I wrote a post about this in terms of cash spending vs. cap space, it might help answer your question: http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2012/1/17/2712193/dispelling-myths#storyjump
We should have no problem staying under the cap in 2012, even with a Bowe, Carr, and another high profile FA.
right, so in addition to salary for the year, you also have to include pro-rated bonuses that are due
actually they’ve been paid already, but whatever part of a prior bonus that does count against this year’s cap
I did not know you could roll over previous cap space to this year, that’s news to me … so yes, it appears we have plenty to spend … but that plenty can disappear in a hurry with just a few major signings
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I thought that they changed the bonus a couple years back. Bonus counts only the year it pays out.(unless guaranteed)
If a player signs a $30mil 3 year contract with $10mil signing bonus in year 1, a $7.5mil roster bonus in year 3… A base salary of $2.5mil, $5mil and $5mil with all base salaries guarnateed.
His cap numbers would look like this:
Year 1: $12.5mil cap hit
Year 2: $5mil cap hit
Year 3: $12.5mil cap hit.
If he was cut after year two the team would save the $7.5mil bonus hit but have to take the $5mil guaranteed base salary hit in year 3.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
well, depends I think on the setup or structure of the contract ... ie, when bonuses are paid or due
and/or what’s guaranteed
I’d love to have that kind of money to buy toys with, though :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
No, bonuses are prorated over the remainder of the contract.
In your example, the $10M signing bonus would count against the cap at $3.33M per year for three years. They wouldn’t pit a big bonus like you called for in the last year of a deal, because at that point it would be no different than salary, since there are no future years to prorate it over… Your player’s cap number would be
Year 1: $3.33M bonus proration, $2.5M salary, $5.83M cap number
Year 2: $3.33M bonus proration, $5M salary, $8.33M cap number
Year 3: $3.33M bonus proration, $5M salary, $7.5M roster bonus, $15.83M cap number
You would never guarantee an entire contract, either. More likely the first year of your hypothetical contract would be fully guaranteed, year two would be guaranteed for injury only, and year three would be at the team’s option. If you cut him after year 2, you would be on the hook for only the remaining un=prorated portion of the bonuses paid, in this case $3.33M.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Got ya...
Roster bonus is all in the year paid. Signing bonus is prorated for entire year. On the contract… I just used it as an example. It isnt a real version of actual no rookie contracts. But upper 1st round rookie contracts are fully guaranteed now…
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
That's a good post, and I remember reading it
You were working off of the $134MM in spending but keeping us under the $121MM cap, right? But according to my math, with the carry-forward, we have a cap of $153MM this year.
2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl
We should be around the $50mil mark
When it comes to available cap space. I doubt we spend anywhere close though, unfortunately.
Even if we spend half of that
We should be able to significantly improve our team.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
No, spending half will MAINTAIN our team
Bowe and Carr will take up a chunk and deservedly so.
Great post. I've been wondering how this works also. Again, it appears that money is
available for Bowe, Carr, McClain and Manning……if management really wants to make a run. Of course, any of these positive moves, a new QB especially, would increase revenues.
Yeah I think Clark really lucked out
With the way the team played out the end of the season, there was some definite hope there that we could rebound in 2012-13 and field an AFC West contender.
Make a couple big-name FA signings and have another solid draft and they should be able to sell quite a few tix. Plus the economy starting to rebound and the new coaches.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
You know the Chiefs won't roll any of the savings from '11 forward, though.
They will get up closer to the $121M or so that the cap is in ‘12, but probably won’t even hit that. In ‘13, they will be required to spend about 90% of the cap. It’ll probably be $125-$130M by then, so we’ll have to spend about $118M. This year they will just build up toward that. That does still give them over $20M to spend, though, so we should see a relatively busy FA season, at least from Chiefs standards.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I really think this should be rec' d up and we should try to keep track of where,
approximately, we stand. I also understand than anyone that’s on the team not, that is let go, naturally their salaries would be deducted.
boy
pitt is 30 million over the cap oak 20 millon
okay i have cerebral palsy arthris and chronic fatigue as well i have a great life and loveing folks some days are better than other days i got a make-a-wish in 2001 and saw my favorite team the broncos it was the trip of a lifetime i wish everyone couild have gotten to enjoy that with me i know some of u hate the broncos and that okay but i bleed organ and bule for my mnr fans but i bleed orange and blue denver will rise again resident broncos fan for every blog resident broncos for stampede bule thanks shvd98z24 real name jeremy woodard nettleton high class of 02 yes i am a raider Stay humble in victory respect all fear none and finish larry soprano
Oakland had a bunch of dead cap money in 2011.
..that is… players’ salary’s.. or bonuses that counted against their cap… for people no longer on the team.
I’m not sure of Pitt was in a similar position.
A fee teams took advantage of 2011/2012 to better position their caps for 2013 when the floor takes effect.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
fee= few,
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
the right seat from the players side of the table. (to the dealers immediate left)
You WANT the inexperienced idiot to go first.. NEVER last.
If you’re sitting in the middle on 16… the dealer is showing a 4… and the guy sitting left chair has 13 (its his turn)…
If he takes the hit (because he’s a complete moron that doesn’t know how to play) while the deck is positive… he’s likely to eat the face card. So he busts….
NOW it’s the dealers turn.. and by rules he HAS to take a hit. He now deal himself a 5 or 6 and has 19 or 20… and EVERYONE at the table loses. (Not just you… everybody that was paying attention and knew that the dealer had to take the risk)….
The guy sitting left chair can cause EVERYONE to lose, by taking a hit at the wrong time. If he’d have just stayed at 15… the dealer would have drawn the 10 card in a positive deck…and busted.. and EVERYONE at the table would have won.
Never stay at a Blackjack table where there’s an amateur in the left chair. NEVER…NEVER…NEVER… his/she WILL screw over the table… and they will do it more than once. Everyone will pay for their lack of understanding how the game should be played. Get up and leave that table immediately… like 10 minutes ago.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
13, not 15.. jeez..
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I once sat at a table where the guy sitting left chair SPLIT Kings....
In a positive deck.
When every other person at the table had chosen to stand pat on 13’s-17’s … because they knew the deck was positive (more ten count cards than numbers) .. and the dealer had a face up 5 (requiring him to take a hit).
The dude SPLIT a 20… into 2 hands. Got 2 more 10 count cards in a row… and the dealer drew a 6 for a 21…. beating everyone at the table.. including the doofus that split the kings.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
If you're sitting in the farthest left (and there are more open chairs to your left) at a table...
and someone gets up.. and MOVES to your left…..
They are trying to tell you something… You’ve made a boneheaded play that cost the table.
Left seat on a balckjack table carries a responsibility to the rest of the table. If you don’t want to take that on… don’t sit on the left.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Thanks Tex
I do plan to get up the nerve to play at the Casino.
SO to the Right I will go, is it correct etiquette to ask?
just pick up a book or watch the videos in the room before you play
a quick perusal of the odds tables should tell you when you should, and shouldn’t take a hit.
No need to ask.. just don’t sit in the far left seat of your learning the game. Let someone else take on that job.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
nothing wrong with splitting aces on a positive deck
It’s the smart way to play.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Vegas is my one little joy in life. It's my vacation to myself.
I don’t care if I lose what I brought to gamble with.. the gambling is my vacation.
I’d spend just as much money going to Disney World, or the beach or whatever…. it’s my entertainment.
The free booze doesn’t hurt )
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
he split KINGS?????????????????
no
way
man
nobody
does
that
shit
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
the half bald head, hawaiian shirt, black horn rims, and cargo shorts should have given it away.
Never should have been at that table. I KNEW it was bad news when the guy sat down /sigh
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
seriously
he freaking SPLIT a pair of freaking KINGS … in Blackjack
some people should never be allowed to gamble
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
yes, he seriously split a pair of kings.
the table audibly moaned.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAHABNANANAMA!!!!!!
OM freaking god …. ROFL my FAO!!!! And I don’t know no-nuthin about gambling except what little my uncle tried to teach when I was kid/very young teen. So I have no business gambling either. But I don’t think I would’ve even split a pair of Kings. Seriously!?!?!? Bwhahahahaha!
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