Past 20 Quarterbacks to win a Superbowl..
by Iczer on Feb 7, 2012 7:48 AM CST
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This is my first Fanpost, so go easy. I don’t think I’ve seen this info posted before. Let me know if I missed something.
Going back from the last 20 Superbowl winners, I looked to see who the QB was and their draft slot. I was actually astonished to see that 14 of the past 20 Superbowl winners had QB’s drafted in the first round. I did bend the truth a little bit, Brees and Favre were both 33rd overall but that’s RIGHT outside the 1st round .
| Year | Winner | QB | Draft pick |
| 2012 | New York Giants | Eli Manning | 1 |
| 2011 | Green Bay Packers | Aaron Rogers | 24 |
| 2010 | New Orleans Saints | Drew Brees | 33 |
| 2009 | Pittsburgh Steelers | Ben Roethlisberger | 11 |
| 2008 | New York Giants | Eli Manning | 1 |
| 2007 | Indianapolis Colts | Peyton Manning | 1 |
| 2006 | Pittsburgh Steelers | Ben Roethlisberger | 11 |
| 2005 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | 199 |
| 2004 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | 199 |
| 2003 | Tampa Bay Buccaneers | Brad Johnson | 227 |
| 2002 | New England Patriots | Tom Brady | 199 |
| 2001 | Baltimore Ravens | Trent Dilfer | 6 |
| 2000 | St. Louis Rams | Kurt Warner | Undrafted |
| 1999 | Denver Broncos | Jon Elway | 1 |
| 1998 | Denver Broncos | Jon Elway | 1 |
| 1997 | Green Bay Packers | Brett Favre | 33 |
| 1996 | Dallas Cowboys | Troy Aikman | 1 |
| 1995 | San Francisco 49ers | Steve Young | Supplemental draft |
| 1994 | Dallas Cowboys | Troy Aikman | 1 |
| 1993 | Dallas Cowboys | Troy Aikman | 1 |
What does that tell us? I think it tells us that by drafting a 1st round QB gives us a MUCH better chance to win a Superbowl than waiting for a diamond in the rough, free agents that nobody else wanted or pipe dreams of drafting another Tom Brady that comes once a decade. Defense does not winner Superbowls anymore. The rules have been catering to the offense. There were THREE QB’s to throw for over 5,000 yards this season. This is now a passing league.
I for one am tired of mediocrity and never seeing the Chiefs try to make the move to set us over the top. Moving from 11/12 to possibly 2/3 would be a lot cheaper than potentially next year where we stand to do substantially better with many injured players coming back who stand to improve our team a lot.
We are a QB away from competing, how can Pioli not see this? Peyton Manning would be a step foward, but he'd only give us a few years, IF he can even get back to his pro bowl form. Maybe Pioli can grow a pair and make some big moves sometime soon..
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I agree, either this year with Luck/RGIII or next year's crop, a franchise QB is long overdue
Drafting at #11 this year would take less to move up to #2 to draft Luck/RGIII then if the Chiefs finish 8-8, 9-7, 10-6, etc and are drafting mid-teens to early 20’s next offseason. Plus, with Manning most likely available as a FA, a QB-needy team can go afther him and that would leave one less team to have to outbid for the #2 pick. Problem will be if Cle wants RGIII, I don’t see how the Chiefs can match what they have to offer in terms of picks.
Chiefs_KC
Getting RGIII isn’t out of the question. See my reply to SillyHatDay’s fan post. If Pioli hasn’t been suckering us fans, he’s going to have to get a significant QB somewhere. Orton is a viable option. P.Manning would do in the short term. I really don’t know what to think of Jason Campbell. Another possible option would be to draft one of “the next 3” QB’s this year; Foles, Tannehill, or Weeden, in the second, and give that guy a decent shot at the job this year. Could be we’d find another Dalton. Don’t completely write off Stanzi. The main reason he didn’t do anything last season was Haley’s peculiar ideas.
on the othr hand,
…if Pioli doesn’t bring in another QB capable of challenging Cassel, then it’s time to “Occupy Arrowhead!”
great chart, well done ... but I disagree with the premise that me MUST draft RG3
Aikman, Elway, the Brothers Manning … top picks to be sure
Dilfer was never considered elite, nor Rothlisberger for that matter, even Brees and Favre came in 2nd Round and Steve Young, Tom Brady and Kurt Warner were bottom of the pile guys along with Brad Johnson
my point, if any, even a Kyle Orton can win a Super Bowl with a good enough team … let’s finish building the TEAM, and remember that even an ELITE guy like Brady misfires sometimes
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Why finish building the team first when QBs can take a year or two or three to fully develop?
Get the QB now and then fill in the few remaining holes as he develops.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
fair enough as far as it goes ... unless we already have him
ie, Stanzi … maybe he is, maybe he isn’t, needs that time to develop, right? or do you stick him under center anyway? or do you get a Nick Foles guy? or trade away picks and pray that RG3 is that guy? (which limits filling holes with the top talent since you’ve traded away picks)
questions, questions!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
KC also has plenty of cap room to make some moves in FA. We don’t have to live or die from through the draft. If we get a franchise QB and players see we’re headed up, that would be good leverage for them to sign with KC. Just my 2 cents.
we do have cap room now ... but I'd prefer we get Carr and Bowe back and there aren't too many guys in FA that I'd care for
Nicks and Soliai and Calais Campbell … that’s about it that I’d want to go after, all are “iffy” in terms of getting to sign (Soliai might be the best shot if he’s on good terms with Daboll)
build thru the draft, that’s how successful teams do it
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Not Grubbs?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
only if he's 28 or under ... if so, go get him
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
make it so, number one
engage
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I absolutely put Stanzi under center before signing Orton.
He’s got the greater potential to be more than Mediocre.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
of course with a lefty on the field as the QB....
…Right Tackle becomes a much more important position.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I'll freely admit I don't know as much about FB as many/most of you, but
if we do get a lefty QB, couldn’t we slide Albert to the right (blind) side, and draft someone like Reiff or Martin to play LT?
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
we could.. yes...
but having a lineman swap sides isn’t something that’s super easy to do.
It completely changes their stance, leverage, which leg to explode off of, and the total technique of playing the game.
I’ve heard a lot of college players and 2 NFL line coaches say that it’s easier for a lineman to switch positions (Guard to Tackle or vice versa) than it is for a player to move to the opposite side of the line.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Yup that is correct
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
I will say this: the Texans took David Carr early and tossed him on the field so he could "develop"
while they did what you suggest (filling holes) … meantime he got sacked so often he ended up looking like Cassel on a bad day … his first instinct after a while was “tuck, duck and drop”
a ton of potential there ruined by an incomplete OLine … and THAT’S why I’m DYING to get a guy like DeCastro to go with the other young studs (Hudson and Asamoah) … that interior of the OLine is a unit and right now it’s not finished … for my money get the best we can get for the longest time (that’s DeCastro in this instance) and add RT in 2nd then add more depth here and there in the later rounds
continue to develop Stanzi, get another one who shows promise if you want, pick up Orton to gun it as needed in the meantime and watch the killer new OLine protect him and open the holes for Charles and Dex
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
How can you want to fix the Oline so badly
But put the biggest hole on said Oline down the list?
If Oline was the only way to go.. RT would be a bigger importance. DeCastro is the best Oline prospect IMO however LG is not the biggest hole and could take mid/late round guy and develop him ala Asamoah
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:00 AM CST up reply actions
I want DeCastro precisely BECAUSE he's such a rare talent ...
no way we get THE best OT out there, right? right! so instead of the 2nd or 3rd or 4th best RT left on the board, get THE BEST Interior Lineman … make LT and C play that much easier/better, etc etc ad nauseum
make sense at all? I mean, we can always get RT in 2nd and he’d still be an upgrade
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Who is to say with Hudson at C instead of Weigs that Lilja does not play lights out?
We could always get a later round guy to groom when Lilja is done
/you know I love DeCastro as a prospect, just a different angle
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
point tooken
but I love me the idea of not just DeCastro’s talent and ability, but the fact that he’s young … so are Hudson and Asamoah, finishing that interior “unit” for a long time
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I love the idea of having a brick wall in the interior 3
Then having 2 tackles that can take wide angles and just skirt the pass rushers past the QB, a lot like the Saints line.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
bingo!
even orton could have a field day with a line like that … not to mention what JC and Dex could do … hell, Battle could finally make those short yardage first downs
see? instant Super Bowl favorites right there!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
We tried that with Trent Green...
and he was a much better QB than cassel, best OLine weve ever had prolly.
and won us 13 games in 2003 ... happened to fall to Peyton first round that year, helluva game
but you can’t blame the offense for not getting us to the Super Bowl, not when we went down in a game with no punts
yes Green was much better than Cassel, no question, and I believe Orton is, too (regardless of what that Idiot Texas Chief says)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
But I still wouldnt consider Green Elite, had an exceptional Running game.
When LJ failed Green couldnt carry us, granted the D didnt allow him, but Brady got there with a D that was just a bit better.
Can't say instant Superbowl favorites without saying Manning like everyone else
Gotta have a RT that is able to keep the QB clean.. for that line to work
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:44 AM CST up reply actions
Clean
As in Orton getting sacked one time in three games?
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Feb 7, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
What JNC said
While I by no means think B-Rich is the guy we want, we all know Cassel makes O-linemen look worse. As does Palko
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
It wasn't really a shot at any QB or coach
Just saying to have a line like the Saints, as was the topic above.. need to have another tackle who can push those rushers around the QB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Ahh I see
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
My bad
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Nah, it was mine
I made the mistake of not following the full discussion.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Nor did I state it clearly enough
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
How about we just agree
That we both suck? :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yeah well now your wrong
We were kindly disagreeing.. not arguing!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'm the one that's wrong... and that's final. Argument over. Finite, finished, completed, done, extinguished
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I'd rather try to find the QB for the next 10 years
Look at the Saints, both Brees and Nicks are free agents, they are going to do everything they can to keep the QB, even if it means losing the guard in free agency. I’d rather sign Grubbs or Nicks as a FA and use pick #11/12 to go up for the QB while still getting a proven G to upgrade the Oline
they'll do all they can to keep both Brees and Nicks
and Brees will want Nicks to stay, I’m sure
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The big question is money
They signed Evans to a massive deal, and Nicks is arguably the better guard.. does he stay for less?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
a little less than what he might get on the open market ... and Brees taking a little less (a la Peyton a few years back)
just so they all stay together for another few years to make that run
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
That is what our logic says
Not like millionaire’s have logic though
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
ha!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I can't see Orton signing unless he can't find anywhere else where he'll get a chance to start
He could beat out Cassel in my mind, but if Cassel’ still on the roster Orton will look to sign somewhere else where he’s told he’ll come in and be the starter day 1. I’m not sure you can ever get a team built up enough around an average QB to win the Super Bowl these days with free agency, there will be guys that want to leave to play on a team with a top level QB and guys that will follow the biggest payday. Right now, KC offers neither. This is why KC may lose either Bowe or Carr this offseason if they can’t get one of them signed before free agency starts
by Chiefs_KC on Feb 7, 2012 8:32 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
if I was Pioli I'd flat out TELL Orton he'd start ... and carry thru on it
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Well, yes but I don' t know if Pioli would do that
Pioli’s talked about bringing competition in for Cassel, but I don’t know if he’ll outright commit to someone and tell him he’s the starter. Even though everyone else who’s watched Cassel knows he’s not a starter
by Chiefs_KC on Feb 7, 2012 9:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I know ... he also said he wouldn't draft Safety at #5 in 2010
competition isn’t going to make Cassel any better … we all know that … Orton, even Jason Campbell would be an improvement
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
but I don't think he ever said he wouldn't I think the quote was "Thomas you know how I feel about drafting a safety at #5"
and then there was endless speculation about what he felt about it. Actually Cassel supporters in the past have said that competion would make Cassel worse because he wouldn’t feel he had the support of the HC and GM….. translation = we don’t care about winning games, we only care that Matt is comfortable going to work every day, no need to feel the need to improve, etc Campbell would be an improvement and was a rd 1 QB
Thats a bit of a reach
If you think any GM or HC cares more about the comfort of any one player than winning games your wrong. winning is their job, plain and simple. The question is first do the professional talent evaluators think Campbell would be better in our system than Cassel/Orton. And second is it enough of a boost to be worth the cost.
Imagine for a second your GM on a team with JarMarcus Russel at QB and you can pick up Ryan Leaf, sure Leaf might be an improvement but is he enough of an improvement to justify a $10 million a year salary?
Considering Russel would be costing the team 3000000 million just in cost of food
Yeah I would take the 10 mil upgrade
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
Where is the quote of him saying that he wouldn't take a Safety at #5?
I believe you are referring to what another GM told Peter King he thought Pioli would do…
Hardly a quote.
Na he was overheard at the combine saying what Chiefs_KC said
‘’You know how I feel about safeties that high’’
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
not enough of an improvement. Orton is mediocre, just like Cassel.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
hater ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
that not hating.. its the damn truth.
Why are you so eager to settle for mediocre once again?
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
see: Niners
Smith, Alex
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
at least you finally admit that Orton is a mediocre QB..and then you're settling for another one.
Now I can add a name to the list of people that aren’t allowed to bitch OR make excuses for him if the Chiefs sign him.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
but only insofar as reminding you that a mediocre QB can do very well
happy now? :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
sure. You admit Orton is mediocre
and try to convince me that mediocre is good enough to do well provided every other variable is absolutely perfect… and that it’s only happened on a super-rare occasion and tends to be the exception, not the rule…
While I point out that the best chance to build a successful offense is to have a “franchisee” QB that far exceeds “mediocre”.. even if the rest of the offense around them isn’t perfect.
Sounds good to me. You’re banking on becoming the miracle exception to the rule that comes alone one time in a generation.. and I’m banking on a good to really good QB coming out of the top of the first round (50% of the time) and joining the Chiefs.
My risk has a 50/50 shot… Your risk .. less than 5%.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Also
those teams with mediocre QBs on that list that won the big game those teams didnt go back…
I thought we were trying to build a team that continually goes deep into the playoffs, RIGHT?
right
because the Ravens almost never even make the playoffs at all …
oh, wait
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
yep, there defense gets them to the playoffs year after year...
but they can’t get over the hump with their middling QB.
I know that’s what I’m hoping for. And again.. you are arguing for the exception and suggesting that it’s the rule. In 2001 Dilfer won a SB.. btw.. he was a first rounder QB.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Please note
I didnt say make the Playoffs, mediocre QBs make it every year.
bq.I thought we were trying to build a team that continually goes deep into the playoffs, RIGHT?
Getting to the playoffs is different than going deep, This was the 1 year, and Flacco played good in the playoffs, but no SB trophy.
see Harbaugh, Jim
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
not to mention ... see: team, the rest of
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
but... if he did that.. we'd be stuck with Orton
yet another in the long line of mediocre QB’s to lead the Chiefs.
In most cases….a team with a great QB and a mediocre O line will be more successful than a team with a mediocre QB and a great O line.
And as many have pointed out.. the O line is 6 guys (counting the TE) … the QB is one guy.
The chances that the team is ever “finished” with the Oline are slim to none. Contracts expire, players retire, free agency happens…. I would argue that putting together an elite team is 6 guys and keeping them all together and happy is HARDER than finding 1 great QB that you can hold onto for 10 years.
RG3 (as a prospect with potential) has so much more upside than Decastro (no matter how good he might some day become) that you can’t even compare the two. You know me uptman.. I’m a defensive FIRST kinda guy, and always have been. I LOVE Martyball… dominating defense + reliable run game is my favorite kind of football…. BUT… that’s not the kind of football that wins championships anymore. It CAN work (anything CAN work taken as a flyer) but all the recent rule changes were made to favor the passing game.. and teams that can score quickly. I don’t see the NFL reversing those rules any time soon.
In short… the offensive game has changed dramatically. The QB position was always been the most important on the offense, but recently the importance of the position has doubled? tripled? quadrupled? It’s not my preferred kind of football game… but it’s the reality of the new NFL. NO team.. since K.C. has fielded the kind of dominating O line that the Chiefs once had. No one has put together that kind of line, because it’s just not the correct priority.
To win reliably (in the long term) a team needs a good to great QB and a good-enough offensive line. Not the other way around.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
dunno, the Ravens and Steelers been looking legit for years with killer defense, killer OLine and "someone" at QB
To win reliably (in the long term) a team needs a good to great QB and a good-enough offensive line. Not the other way around
and there is no way I consider Big Ben to be “elite” at QB … I love me that Martyball, too
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ben is elite at escaping
Charges.. and defenders
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
Please STOP trying to say that Rothlesberger is not a top 10 QB
Ben is in the class of very very good on the field (off the field he’s a criminal).
That’s not a good example to use.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Calling him top 10
Is still an insult. He is clearly better than top 10.
P. Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Brady, E. Manning would be in my top 5 in some order or another
Ben would appear in the next group of 6-10
Cassel would fall in the 16-20 range right alongside Orton.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Ben and Eli are pretty much equal
That isn’t the prevailing opinion maybe at this second, considering one just won the SB.
Otherwise I agree with your top 5, assuming Peyton’s health.
Also agree that Cassel and Orton are in the 16-20 range…I may open it to 16-24, regardless, mediocre.
I'd agree that Ben and Eli are very close as well
But I’d give the edge to Eli over Ben.. not by much.. but then again… I have to harbor some hatred for a serial date rapist
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Ben? elite?
he’s had a couple of very good years, some better than average years, and a couple of horrible years to boot … hardly the definition of “elite” in my dictionary
perhaps your own personal thesaurus has a different definition and meaning than mine of the term “elite”
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
apparently Kyle Orton
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
if winning SB is the criterion for :"elite" then there's a major issue here
it also means that Dan Marino was not elite … and that Big Ben is somehow better than Peyton Manning, or that Brad Johnson is as elite as Peyton (having the same number of SB wons)
come on
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
not just 2 SBs,
but Id consider him elite talent because hes a proven winner and brings things to that team as a QB that other teams dont have in a QB, some very rare talents in his size strength, and able to move the football very well.
he was pretty bad that year he won his first Superbowl...
I know as a Chiefs fan… I’d have been screaming for him to be cut if he played that that for our team in a Superbowl winning season. I’d absolutely hate the guy and be calling for Cassel to replace him….
oh wait…. hmmm… no I wouldn’t
A lot of people discredit what Ben does on the field because of his off field issues. They like to minimize his contributions. He’s a piece of human garbage off the field. He should be in jail.. not playing football. BUT – when he is playing QB, he’s damn good at it.
HoFer might be a stretch.. and 1st ballot…. well.. better men than Ben have failed to attain that lofty position. But he’s certainly a very good QB, bordering on elite.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
You may want to take a look at the QB's in the HOF
If you win two SB’s, including win a SB MVP, you go in the HOF first ballot.
I’m not sure what % of that first graph is sarcasm, but he was actually very good the year they won their first SB, the offense was just not geared around him, it was geared around the running game, which is also true for Elway’s SB wins.
Ben’s stats that year were really good. He led the league in YPA and TD%.
it was all sarcasm
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
2006 and 2008 both less than stellar
look it up for yourself
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6770/career;ylt=Aq6kwC0YEkOoX0k4mlbfHH.uLYF
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
59.7% completion rate and 59.9% completion rate in those 2 years
Both higher than Orton’s Career average completion rate.
So his 2 worst years… were better than Orton (mediocre).
I’ll take a QB whose worst seasons are still better than some starters careers. (Orton/Cassel)
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
You beat me to it
And those may have been less than stellar by Ben’s standards, but certainly not ‘horrible’ as you put it.
should we then ...
…look at Troy Aikman’s worst 2 years and disqualify him?
How about Peyton Mannings worst 2 years?
Brett Favre?
I can understand you saying that Ben is not “elite”.. instead he’s “Great”… that’s an argument of semantics. He’s been better than good for his entire career. He’s one of the best scrambling QB’s ever to play. He’s played behind sub-par Olines and won Superbowls. He CAN make all the throws… how about that perfect ball in the corner to Ward for a SB win? … He’s accurate, and he’s a special player as a QB.
But to suggest that Ben is some kind of exception to the rule of a team needing a true franchisee QB (which is the argument you keep bringing him up along with Flacco and Dilfer to support) … is just flat out indefensible.
Ben is a GREAT NFL QB. Imo he’s one of the elite guys playing the game at the QB position. If you want to call him just great, instead of elite… fine… so be it. But stop using him as some sort of example that mediocre QB’s with stellar offensive lines is how you build a winner. Ben is NOT mediocre by any stretch.. and the Steelers line has NOT been a great line hiding Ben’s weaknesses while Ben has been with the team.
That argument is completely invalid.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
It was Holmes in the corner...
But otherwise, nice work :)
thanks for the correction.
That pass was damn flawless.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
yanno, Tex ... I was going to ask if you could possibly be more annoying but I already know the answer
… on top of being more stubborn than a mule (but I’ll give you points for debate skills, even if you are obnoxious)
(angelic smile)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Heh
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
by TRSChief on Feb 7, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Bah dammit. Formatting.
Ate half the image.
Nevermind. Taking my toys and going home.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
so Im the kettle....?
What are you trying to say? I scream like a little bitch? huh..huh…HUH?
Them’s fightin’ Words. Put your dukes up!
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Yeah pretty much.
Either that or it’s now 14 minutes til quittin’ time here at work and I’m far more preoccupied clock watching to be bothered with a witty retort.
C’mon clock, don’t fail me now!
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
He has a career passer rating of 92
And more importantly, in my evaluation, he has an 8.0 ypa, and is ridiculously clutch.
He also has worked with bad OL’s (something you apparently haven’t noticed) and has been a magician escaping pressure.
Sure, he’s probably a terrible person, but he is elite, and will be a 1st ballot HOF’r.
The Steelers? A killer O-Line for years????
Are we talking about the same team that has had their talent on the O-Line questioned from seasons start to seasons end almost every year in the last 7… including when they went to Superbowls?
The team where Big Ben has to defend the awful play of his O-Line in the press year after year?
Ben Spell-Check-berger has been an absolute GENIUS at scrambling around in the pocket… absorbing a metric ass ton of hits.. escaping tackles, and making something happen out of absolutely nothing. His O-Line has been the crew that have forced him to have to scramble like a chicken with his head cut off for the majority of his career.
That ALL on Ben (to be successful behind that line) and his ability/size/power to get away. It has nothing at all to do with the line being “killer”
You cannnot possibly tell me with a straight face that you believe your own comment that the Steelers line has been “killer”… unless you ment to type “killer defense, a killer of an Oline that has resulted in multiple injuries to QB’s…..”
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
The problem with that is that it shouldnt be Pioli's decision it should be Romeos hes the coach and the GM should be giving the coach whoever he wants
The fact that Pioli is talking so much about tell me that hes trying to sell everyone on that hes open to someone replacing Cassel but Im not buying it . I wouldnt be surprised if there is a large faction within the team that wants Orton and Pioli and some others may want Matt and this is his compromise .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 7, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
the coaches job is to coach the team...
the GM’s job is to assemble the team, handle the contracts and the business side… Most GM’s have experience from the player personnel side of football…
The two need to work together to target the kind of players they both believe in… but it’s NOT the coaches job to make personnel decisions and the GM’s job to give them whoever they want.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
someone noted that Daboll is an old buddy of Pioli's and mentioned often in War Room
Pioli hire? Crennel hire? interesting either wa
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
there are a lot of guys mentioned in that book.
And they all had something to do with the Belichek tree….
That’s kinda what the book was about… the Patriots and their coaching offshoots to the Falcons and Chiefs…
So, of course he was mentioned.. he was a coach with the team.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Call it the Parcells tree, then
Given that Bellichek and many others were asst. to Parcells…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
point taken
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I don’t think we MUST draft RG3, I more or less think we NEED to make a move sometime. We’ve all heard the story of how KC NEVER drafts a QB in the first round. We can’t always bank of FA or pray for the next Tom Brady. Why not go after a guy who has the brains and can make the throws like RG3 or potentially Barkley next year?
You just gotta remember, it will surely cost us more next year to move up high enough to get a top tier QB. Our team WILL be better next year, and our draft pick will be that much higher.
When is a TEAM ever FINISHED?
Say we go with DeCastro instead of making a move for a QB.. ok that works this season.. with Cassel!
What if Albert leaves? Well that means we gotta go LT asap.. with Cassel!
A team is never done, and we will likely not be in such a good position to get our guy in awhile
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 8:39 AM CST up reply actions
Wouldn't really say Steve Young was a 'bottom of the pile' guy
He signed a record contract with the USFL to start his career
didn't he get like a $10 million dollar annuity as part of that deal?
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I'm on board with that, ups...
I would like Manning. GEEZ, that would be fun to watch…but I would rather build a solid line like we had early 2000’s so that our QB is well protected. I think we COULD do both this year, getting Manning or Orton in FA and then building our line with DeCastro, and either Sanders or maybe trade down and pick up Adams or Sanders and get Nicks in FA.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
I think we can do both as well....
Moving up for RG3 in the first round, taking the best guard available in the 2nd round, and addressing the RT in free agency.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Can't...
We just gave up our 2nd and next years first for the privelege of moving up to get RG3….
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
nah, we tagged and traded Bowe, and gave up next years first.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
2 firsts+Bowe?
Too much, 1st/3rd this year, Bowe, 2nd next year would be much better
Which could still net..RGIII/Sanders(Nicks/Grubbs in FA)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm WILLING to trade 2 firsts + Bowe for their first....
if we can get it for less… bully for us =P
I’d be open to our first + Bowe + Dorsey too
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I don't want to give up a first next year
Lose too much mobility in the draft
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
if RG3 turns into what I think he has the potential to become.. he'd be worth every first from now til 2015
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I wouldn't go that far
Has an amazing ceiling.. but I like the draft! Gotta gimme picks!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
that's why I say Id be willing to trade 2 firsts + Bowe
But personally. I like RG3 more than I like Luck.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
RGIII has the higher upside, Luck has the higher floor
RGIII has that risk, from being so mobile
Luck has the rock foundation of being a pocket passer, and a good one
The way I see it, is they would still be getting the 11th pick, Bowe, a 2nd/3rd to drop back 9 spots. They want a proven #1 WR and got it, can use the 11th on Oline/Defense and continue to build
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yep
That was exactly what I was saying. They would get a #1 WR and can still use pick 11 to get Reiff or Martin or DeCastro.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah that has been the amount I would give up for RGIII
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
why not the other way around
get the qb, then draft around him, granted draft picks will be fewer but FA is another angle.
I want the QB...
It’s just that the QB I want is Manning, not RG III. Manning can finish out his career here (3-4 years optimistically) and in the meantime we can groom Stanzi and build our O-line, and draft for depth everywhere else. And we get to keep Bowe/Carr.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
I would just like the team to take a shot at a possible elite QB weather it be RG3 or whoever.
AND YES, I do understand that if it doesnt work out it could set this years draft back & a few years down the road Pioli/Crennel could be fired for the miss, but we have such a good core on both sides of the ball, a lot of people feel its the time to get that guy under center.
if we dont try and get an Elite QB the 2-3 years down the road when Pioli/crennel are fired and everyone wants Hunts head on a stake, most will look back and say we had a ton of talent and a nice window to win big in 2015 but couldnt do it because we didnt have a QB that could get us deep into the playoffs when we needed an arm that could pull us out of a tight situation, and now we have fired everyone and have to start over.
Or we save the chance to move up and use the picks we could use to deepen the core and strengthen the team and possibly win with solid play and a good enough QB, I just dont wanna look back if this senario doesnt work out and say what we all say about past players(Gonzalez, Waters, ect) its to bad we didnt have an elite QB to take DJ, Hali, Bowe, and others that would be up there by 2015 who have worked hard to make this team what it is. Then everyone say well I hope insert team name can get em that ring with there elite QB because they deserve it.
I agree
I’d rather KC TRY and make the big move and set us over the top to be a Superbowl contender on a guy like RG3. He has all the makings to be a franchise QB, unlike Russel a few years back. Instead of sitting our our asses and playing it safe every year while us as fans see what the whole damn problem is and it is our QB. We CANNOT rely on Cassel’s arm to win us games.
Since 1998 there have been 39 first round QBs drafted
How many of them have won superbowls? A whopping 4.
4 out of 39 is a 10% success rate, not looking too good. Wouldn’t it be simpler to just draft the best QB available, and not worry about guarantees?
There are a lot of 1st overall picks in the list of superbowl winners so obviously the best strategy to is to intentionally loose every game every year until we end up with an awesome QB.
The list above points out that there have been 8 Superbowl wins by 1st round QBs
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
:'(
I know I’ve never one!!!!!!!! Meaniehead!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
Eh if I was at least I coulda made it rain!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
Go through the odds of how many late round QBs have won SBs then
I’ll wait
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:06 AM CST up reply actions
A lot fewer, I'd guess the success rate on that is like 1% if that
Thats why you have to trust your scouts, evaluating college talent is hard, anyone who says otherwise is wrong, and it is in no small part a guessing game.
The guys with the most talent are the guys taken first
That is the reason you usually have to be in the top few picks to get your guy, obviously a lot depends on the team they go to and how they are handled
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
A lot of the predraft hype on Stanzi had him looking like a clone of Tom Brady
Why’d he fall all the way to us in the 5th?
I know I’m being pedantic but the guys with the most perceived talent get taken first, there’s no real way to gauge actual talent.
The reason I’m not worried about the Chiefs in the long run is we’ve had some good drafts with Pioli, Besides everyone we got Pioli wanted the Kelce kid who turned out to be a top center his rookie year, and got taken just ahead of us. I think he’s a good evaluator of talent and I trust that given time he’ll find a way to get us a good QB
Every year there are all these 'late round steals'
Most do not pan out, and quite a few of the late round gems are guys no one expected.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
I think that was based on his lack of a haircut and would probably be drafted in late rounds
more than projecting him to win superbowls
Well the prostyle offense and late round projection surely helped
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
talent alone is not a definitive guarantee of success
you know that, being Ryan Leaf and all
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Hence why I said it also depends on what team they go to and how they are handled
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
general theory by most is that if a guy is talented enough and good enough, he'll be able to lead any team to the promised land
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
That is more of the NBA/MLB theory
Draft the prospect with the highest ceiling, stash him on lower quality teams and hope he pans out
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
I couldn't agree more
One thing most of the recent superbowl teams have in common is their offense are designed around their QB. For that reason I still don’t think we have any idea how good Cassel is (okay maybe some idea) but we’ve never designed an offense around him, our team is designed around the run game and our D. Until we are willing to design our offense around a QB I don’t think we’ll consistent success.
Or that is the offense built around Cassel
Limit the chances he has to screw up and cost the team games
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:35 AM CST up reply actions
In my mind building an offense around a player means
both playing towards their strengths and trying to minimise their weaknesses, not one or the other.
Strengths=game management
Weaknesses=throwing the ball
hahahaha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure game management is even a strength
Guy tried to call timeouts on back to back plays beacuse he couldn’t figure out what the call or reads were. Once Palko got into the game it seemed like even he could process the calls and get guys lined up, pre-snap reads, etc
He can walk on the field, off the field, hand the ball off
Pretty darn good game management right there
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:46 AM CST up reply actions
Man, I'll hand the ball off to Charles and stay the F out of the way
And do it for half of what Cassel is making.
Let’s do this.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
that would make you a more relaible QB then Brodie Croyle if you can do it.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Or we draft Miller
Trade Bowe/Breaston/Baldwin/etc for Oline/TEs and run wildcat every play!
Who needs a QB?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
who needs any good players...
just hire a bunch of guys off the street for the offense, keep the defense… then with all the extra money we hire superman to play QB, or someone else who can fly over the opposing D.
I don't know..
Me thinks that would draw a flag in the no fun league, or if superman hit a player, it would be a flag for ’’launching’’
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe we should look to the Arena Football League...
That’s where the Rams found Warner….
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
I thought they found him in a Piggly Wiggly bagging groceries for $2.15/hr. =P
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
That's what
AFL players do on the weekdays….and it was Hy-Vee…wrong region…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
I wonder if an old lady ever yelled at him for making the bags too heavy..
…or if he ever broke the eggs.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
LoL, success rate or not you have to show your trying to get a QB, a lot of draft picks have an elite ceiling...
Sometimes it is how the team that drafted that QB handels that QB.
Since 1998, there have only been 14 Superbowls played...
There can only be 14 Superbowl winning QBs, so looking at the number drafted as 39 to use as a statistical comparison is flawed
by Chiefs_KC on Feb 7, 2012 9:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
That no one wants Matt in KC?
haha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
Damn.. Thats mean..
no.. the trend is.. you have to have a top 5 qb in the league.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
So you want Cassel in KC?
He is the Matt I referred to…
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:13 AM CST up reply actions
And right now..
The chiefs have a top 25 QB.. So.. We have a ways to go. Unless we get Peyton Manning, in which case, we are immediate superbowl contenders next year :)
"It's still real to me dammit!"
top 25? oh yeah, Stanzi ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yeah!
Let’s get Manning!! Please? I want my P. Manning jersey in red and gold…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
Spray paint
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
This could not be further from the truth
Defense does not winner Superbowls anymore.
Giants defense held a offense that was averaging 32 ppg to 17 points
Packers had the #1 defense last year
When the Saints won there defense forced game winning turnovers on at least 3 separate occasions against Warners ,Cards ,then Favres Vikings and then sealed the SB by stopping the older Manning .
I could go on and on …
The key to winning the SB is not about where your QB was drafted its about putting together a team that can win in a variety of ways and finding a way to play your 4 best weeks of football in January
Each team only had the ball for 8 possesions in the game Sunday vs typically 12, so you could point to that reason for a 33% drop in points scored
meaning, both offences ate up the clock by moving the ball and not the defences stopping the other team which would have resulted in more possesions for each team. Also, all the team examples you mentioned the QBs were E. Manning, Brady, P. Manning, Brees, Warner, Favre, A. Rodgers…
yet Rodgers and Brees and for that matter Stafford didn't make it to the Big Dance this year
even though Flacco was as close as Rodgers … hmmm, how about that
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I could also point to the fact that the Giants defense actually scored 2 points as well
If not for that safety Brady is playing to get to the 40 not the endzone for a game tying field goal .
Good qb play is crucial but this claim that only 1st rd qbs are capable of playing well enough to win a SB is the most ridiculous thing Ive read
by Willie Beamon on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
I never said only 1st round QB are capable to win a SB, I simply pointed out that the last 20 years the winner has been a 1st round QB the majority of the time, simple as that. This is a passing league now, we need to adjust or we’ll continue to be mediocre with Cassel at QB.
Thats clearly what you are implying but what youve ignored is that
think it tells us that by drafting a 1st round QB gives us a MUCH better chance to win a Superbowl than waiting for a diamond in the rough, free agents that nobody else wanted or pipe dreams of drafting another Tom Brady that comes once a decade
In that 20 year span there has been 46 qbs taken in the first rd and only 6 have actually won a SB.
Drafting a QB in the first rd means nothing now because truth be told the only way that works is if you get a HOF’er in the first rd and what are the odds of that ?
There is nothing wrong with wanting something better than Matt but the the dream of 1st qb = sbs is not at all accurate .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 7, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
that's not what he's implied AT ALL... not even close.
It’s the argument you WANT to have… because it supports your position.
The BEST chance to end up with a great to elite franchisee QB in the last 20 years comes from drafting one in the first round. No one said it was 100% prospect, or that it was a sure thing, or that you COULDN’T end up with one somewhere else. But the BEST chance (almost 45-55% odds (based on how you define franchisee) of getting that guy comes by having a fisrt round QB.
in a SEPARATE statement… (not at all linked)…
12 of the last 20 Superbowls were won by 1st round QB’s. (and 2 more by the 33rd pick…1 pick outside the first round) … Meaning that over 50% of the time the Superbowl has been won by a first round QB.
(I can’t stress enough that this is a SEPARATE statistic than the first one. NO ONE is trying to link these 2 into saying that 50% of the time you will win a Superbowl if you draft a first round QB.) No one except you.. as you continue to link those two things in order flame your straw man.
None of the rest of us believe that a 1st round QB = A Superbowl win.
We take those as 2 separate points. .. The Chiefs need a great to elite franchisee QB, and the BEST odds of us getting one is with a QB in the first round. The odds drop so much after the first round that it would shock you. So, we should take the risk on a first rounder the team believes in ASAP and stop putting it off for some magical date in the future like we have been for the last 29 years.
IF we get that 1st rounder.. we HOPE and DREAM that’s he becomes that guy that can lead us to a Lombardi trophy. But we KNOW that the chances of that happening with anything other than a first round QB are very very very very slim.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Calm down there skippy, you seem like you’re just trying to start an argument. Look at the graph I posted. It’s pretty simple, 14 out of the last 20 Superbowl winning teams had a 1st round QB leading them. What point am I trying to get across? Maybe that teams willing to take the risk on a 1st round QB, one that already is talented enough alone to be taken in the first round is a risk worth taking?
Chill out dude lol
Here you go
Let me paste what I wrote in the OP since you seem to have gone on some random tangent.
“I think it tells us that by drafting a 1st round QB gives us a MUCH better chance to win a Superbowl than waiting for a diamond in the rough, free agents that nobody else wanted or pipe dreams of drafting another Tom Brady that comes once a decade.”
If you read that closely, I said drafting a 1st round QB gives us a MUCH better chance. One more time, MUCH BETTER chance. Never did I say only 1st round QB was the only way to win a Superbowl.
my response was to Willie Beamon.. not you.
I understand perfectly what your article says.
I never suggested that you said only a 1st round QB was the way to win; quite the opposite.
If you keep up with AP.. Willie and I had an almost identical discussion on another thread where he kept introducing straw man arguments to attribute to me when discussing taking a first round QB at all.
Then we mosey over to this thread where the discussion is SB quarterbacks..and low and behold here come the straw man arguments again. It gets in my craw..
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
My apologies, I’m not too fond of this forum layout as it looks like you’re responding to my posts. Obviously I was thrown off by your posts lol.
Right, it's 3 different arguments:
Mine: A teams BEST chance to get a very good to elite level QB is to take one in the first round. No other round of the draft, free agency, or undrafted group of players give you nearly as good of ods to end up with a great-elite QB as does taking a 1st rounder.
Yours: 12 of the last 20 Superbowls have been won by first round QB’s. Meaning that a team can improve it’s odds of winning a superbowl by having a first round QB. That’s not to say all first round QB’s win Superbowls, just that the big game is, more often than not, won by a 1st round QB.
Willie’s: Of the 46 QB’s taken in the first round only 6 have won Superbowls. Taking a first round QB is not an indicator of winning a Superbowl.. 6 out of 46 is not good odds to win a Superbowl and therefore a first round QB isn’t the key to winning a Superbowl.
You are starting with the Superbowl and comparing it to the QB’s that have won in them.. specifically looking at the round they were drafted in. You aren’t saying every first round QB has a high probability to go on to win Superbowls. You are saying Superbowls are won by first round QB’s.
Willie is looking at ALL first round QB’s and comparing that to the number of them that have won Superbowls… to show odds of an specific guy taken in the first actually winning the big game; instead of the odds that the the big game will be won by a first round guy (ANY first round guy.. no specifics)
These are in no way the same argument. You guys are looking at it from opposite sides.
He’s starting with all
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
If you're ever unsure exactly what a comment is responding to, click "up" a the bottom of it.
It’ll take you directly to the comment it’s a reply to.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Yeah the interface takes some adapting to
And some of the functions aren’t readily apparently. But it gets the job done. More or less.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
or as I said above... hell Ill repost it.
Just by not taking the chances we could be missing out on great opportunities…
YES, I do understand that if it doesnt work out it could set this years draft back & a few years down the road Pioli/Crennel could be fired for the miss, but we have such a good core on both sides of the ball, a lot of people feel its the time to get that guy under center.
if we dont try and get an Elite QB the 2-3 years down the road when Pioli/crennel are fired and everyone wants Hunts head on a stake, most will look back and say we had a ton of talent and a nice window to win big in 2015 but couldnt do it because we didnt have a QB that could get us deep into the playoffs when we needed an arm that could pull us out of a tight situation, and now we have fired everyone and have to start over.
Or we save the chance to move up and use the picks we could use to deepen the core and strengthen the team and possibly win with solid play and a good enough QB, I just dont wanna look back if this senario doesnt work out and say what we all say about past players(Gonzalez, Waters, ect) its to bad we didnt have an elite QB to take DJ, Hali, Bowe, and others that would be up there by 2015 who have worked hard to make this team what it is. Then everyone say well I hope insert team name can get em that ring with there elite QB because they deserve it.
I agree Akr_Baby
We’ve got a great young core of talent but no QB to lead us. We need to make the move sooner rather than later.
And again you keep grasping at straws
THE FACTS
46 1st rd qbs
6 won sbs
Aikman,Eli,Elway,Big Ben all have multiple wins during that span
Over that same 20 years there have been about 15 non first rd qbs that have played in the SB but by using your logic IF ONLY THEY HAD BEEN DRAFTED IN THE 1ST RD THEY WOULDVE WON IT
Nevermind the other 25= other 1st rd qbs to never ever even play in a SB
So lets go over the raw math here
46 1st rd qbs taken
only 10 or so actually have played in a SB
6 of those 10 or so have played and won multiple Sbs
15 non first rd qbs have played in Sbs during that same time span
Those 1st rd odds suck we are much better off building the best team we can and putting ourselves in a position to make a move when someone we feel is a future HOF qb comes along than just rolling the dice and playing the it gives us a better chance odds .
The jets were in a similar position and did that with Sanchez and its blown up in there face and that window is barely open
by Willie Beamon on Feb 7, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
and you're still arguing a different position than the one that was presented.
Look at all the 2nd round QB taken in the last 20 years.
Then look at all the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and finally undrafted…
Compile a list of the number of each of those groups won the Superbowl in the same time period.
your going to come to the same conclusion that everyone else has….
Your BEST odds are STILL with a 1st round QB. No matter how crappy you think those odds are… they are still better than any odds you’re going to get anywhere else.
BTW.. you say 6 won SB’s… but some of those guys have won more than 1 SB.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Feb 7, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
His premise is absolutely correct.
12 of the last 20 SB’s have been own by 1st rounders.
More 1st rounders have won the SB than any other single round or undrafted in the modern era of football….
Therefore.. the probability of winning the Superbowl is greater with a first rounder than with any other round/undrafted quarterback in the modern era of football.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
would you please stop doing this?
but by using your logic IF ONLY THEY HAD BEEN DRAFTED IN THE 1ST RD THEY WOULDVE WON IT
No, that’s not my logic. It has never been my logic. I’ve never suggested it. I’ve never implied it. I’ve never supported it. That’s YOUR straw man argument of this comment.
And now the argument is changing from the odds of a superbowl being won by a first rounder to the odds of any specific first rounder winning a Superbowl during their career? That’s a diffferent conversation. Further… NOW we’re introducing the number of non-firsts QB’s that have PLAYED IN a Superbowl (not won it) and directly comparing that to the number of firsts that have WON the Superbowl… while discarding the the others that PLAYED in it, but didn’t win?
THE FACTS
Sure, those are facts. They don’t pertain to the argument in question, nor are then even a fair comparison because you changed the parameters to support your position…. but they are facts.
So lets go over the raw math here
Yes, lets do that… as it pertains to the point of the post.
12 of the last 20 Superbowls were won by first round QB’s. That’s more than any other single round of draft pick during the same time period. So, first round QB’s win more superbowls than any other rounds QB’s.
That’s the raw math.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
who has ever made that claim?
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
well said, WIllie
and how many people really think Eli is better than Brady?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
"Moving from 11/12 to possibly 2/3 would be a lot cheaper than potentially next year where we stand to do substantially better with many injured players coming back who stand to improve our team a lot."
But next year there could be less teams with glaring QB needs and there will be alot more 1st round talented QBs.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
You don’t know what will happen this next year. QB’s could decline, get hurt and not re-signed, etc. Either way, franchise QB’s are not a dime a dozen. Look at Indy, they have Peyton Manning who is supposedly back to playing and now they’re drafting another QB. Teams cannot and will not pass up talent at their position if it’s best for them. But lets also not forget the fact that if we’re higher in the draft, that’s more Pioli would have to give up and less of a chance of it even happening then.
there never seems to be less teams looking for a QB than QBs available
This year the QBs available are (I’m not going to count Flynn), Luck, RG3, Manning., that’s a total of 3. Teams that could use a QB:
Ind
KC
Cle
Mia
Wash
Arz
Den
That’s 7 teams, so 4 teams this year are going to strike out on a QB so atleast 4 will be looking again next year along with any team that’s giving up on their QB after next year
Compare the number to the 1st round QBs drafted
To give a frame of reference.
I think it tells us that by drafting a 1st round QB gives us a MUCH better chance to win a Superbowl than waiting for a diamond in the rough
This conclusion is not valid based on the data you presented, mostly due to poor wording.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
I think you're forgetting the whole point of this post, maybe I did word it poorly.
The point is the teams that TOOK the chance to draft a QB in the first round seem to be doing fairly well.
Aaron Rogers could have been a bust, John Elway could have been a bust, Eli Manning could have been a bust, Peyton Manning could have been a bust. There are no sure things in the draft and I know this, but I’d at least like to see KC make the effort in trying to find our QBOTF.
Think of what a franchise QB should mean: as compared to a mediocre QB.
He handles the rush better, less sacks and more completions. He does not lock onto receivers, better chance for completions and hitting other open receivers. Doesn’t panic under pressure, less sacks, more completions. Better passer, hits receivers in stride, more completions, more yards after catch. In addition, line does not have to hold their blocks as long, receivers can run better routes and know they have a better chance to get the ball and overall, a much better team because players have confidence in their QB to bring them back when their down and make better use of their talents. RB’s have better runs due to Defenses not being able to focus on the run and so many other factors. Just a move up from a 15-20 rated QB to a 10-15 rated QB could make all the difference in the world.
You mean from Cassel to Orton?
Just a move up from a 15-20 rated QB to a 10-15 rated QB could make all the difference in the world.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Feb 7, 2012 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
nope.
Cassel to Orton is moving up from a 15-20 to a 15-20
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
How is that moving up?
I confused.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:50 PM CST up reply actions
Now you understand
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Nooo I have understood haha
Really should have taken up out of that statement though
“Cassel to Orton is moving from a 15-20 to a 15-20” makes much more sense
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
No.
I had it right the first time.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Feb 7, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Orton is not a huge upgrade from Cassel
Nor is he in the top 10 range
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
There's a strong argument to put Orton in the top 15.
Same with Cassel in the top 20. I never claimed he was top 10.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Feb 7, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
there's a strong argument against it too.
Both Cassel and Orton have had the same kind of mediocre career numbers, when taken on a whole.
If one is an upgrade to another… it’s by so little as to not break into a new category.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I look at Kyle Orton as a much better passer of the football.
The biggest difference for me is that Orton has the ability to make lesser guys look good. Recent examples include Copper and Pope who both suddenly looked serviceable in the last three games. Cassel, on the other hand, looks good because of the support he receives from good/great players. Career numbers cannot be totally dismissed, but numbers don’t tell the whole story.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Feb 7, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't see a difference between Cassel and Orton, go back and watch
the Green Bay game. Notice the play action, watch him look over the entire field, watch how his screens are set up and notice how many passes to the receivers were in stride, not behind them. Not perfect but a big improvement over Cassel, with only a couple of weeks with the team.
if you look at the complete careers of the 2 players... neither one stands out as dominate over the other
I agree that Orton makes the faster reads, and releases the ball quicker.
But Cassel is the better team leader, and doesn’t have near the roller coaster career from one game to the next.
They both have strengths and weaknesses, but at the end of the day… they both end up in the same place. They take different roads to get to mediocre, but that’s where they land.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
We could still get a 1st round QB...
Unfortunately, his name is Tannehill…
No, I would reach for Brock before Tanne
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
We can get Brock
in the 4th, likely…or Foles in the 2nd or 3rd…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
Brock will NOT last til the 4th
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
aaaaaaaaaghh! (me running down the street) aaaaaaagh!
will we ever get a franchise qb THROUGH THE DRAFT EVER! I was 8 when the Chiefs last won the SB, and still in my lifetime have yet to see a qb we groomed through the draft that we acn call OUR franchise qb
we called Dawson "ours" even though he was a "castoff" from other teams
and he was certainly “The Franchise QB”
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
NICE~ this little list of all QB's taken First Round from 1990 - 2009
http://www.docsportsblog.com/?p=1800
to finalize it and bring it up to date wouldn’t take much … bottom line is, more failures than successes
2002 and 2003 were pretty horrible overall, 2004 was spectacular and 2005 was “good”
an interesting look … remember, these are first round, not specifically top picks … interesting list nonetheless
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
So, I guess the Chiefs just give up and punt?
Everything the Chiefs have done in the draft or FA over the last 40 years has not worked. Maybe, they should try something different.
Don't worry we'll get the 1st pick in the draft next year.
Sorry, the daboll hire is really rubbing me the wrong way.
MIZ-DGB
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Feb 7, 2012 5:33 PM CST reply actions
Anyone have piolis number?
I need to give him a call
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