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Brian Daboll: Another Perspective

I wanted to offer a different perspective on Brian Daboll that I've been pondering since I heard about the hire.

I have to admit, when I heard his name pop up in the beginning, I was just as skeptical as most. Afterall, Miami had a horrible offense statistically. How could this possibly be considered a "good hire"?

I think this hire makes sense from a variety of standpoints. He seems to run a hybrid / adaptable offense that doesn't limit itself by terminology, and forms it's identity around it's personelle. Is it west coast? Is it the EP system that we've been talking about for the last three years? I don't know. And if I had to guess that will change over the course of his coordination depending on what pieces we have to offer, and what our opponent is doing defensively (afterall, we are a game-plan team).

The Kansas City Chiefs have chosen the course of building their team almost exclusively through the draft. Free agent hires are almost strictly considered supplemental, and can rarely be "counted on." This approach is used by the team that our owner has chosen to model the organization after, the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Steelers have possibly been the best drafting team of the last decade and have become the face of this approach in my opinion (not to take away from some of the better drafting teams like BAL & PHI)

Part of the reason this approach works for them is because of their stout coaching staff. Their staff is notorious for being able to find a balance between their draft picks, and their scheme. This is incredibly important for them because of another reason that Clark Hunt has chosen them as our standard: They are very efficient monetarily. They receive value from their players in the form of production, that production supplies wins, and ultimately renders fan excitement. The fans drop the money back into the organization and kick start the entire process all over again. Thee model.

The Chiefs are a smaller market team and have a considerably different way of operating than for instance the Raiders, Jets, or Redskins. They may not always have the luxury of going out and targeting a player, or competing in a bidding war for a free agent that "fits their system". Occasionally they will have to simply make due with what they have.

This brings me back to Brian Daboll. I believe that he may be just the type of coordinator that Scott Pioli is looking for to complete his 'type' of staff (I do realize he may not work out, and that Romeo does the hiring), and very possibly what he was looking for when he first began this process three years ago.

In order to successfully operate the way that we have chosen to operate and achieve the goals that we have set out to achieve (competing for entry to the Big Game every year), we have to strike that balance I was referring to earlier. We must find a coordinator that has the capability of achieving that balance, and making the proverbial "Chicken Salad Out Of Chicken Shit."

That balance was part of the reason why Daboll recorded high marks on the Phinsider poll regarding whether he should be kept. If he can offer us that kind of creativity, he may be able to offer the offense what Romeo did for the D. I believe we will, from an organizational standpoint, continue to acquire a team full of relative role players, like we're starting to see on D (and really, O if you think about it. We just don't have the QB to bring everything together). This helps to keep team morale high by getting everyone involved, helps keep contracts low due to the spread around workload, and maintains that team-first attitude that the Chiefs have installed.

Another reason I believe this is what Scott Pioli wants, organizationally, is what I recall about the reports that came out during Haley's first year. Supposedly Scott wanted to retain Chan Gailey, who is known for the same type of innovation and player-makes-the-system sort of coordination.

I think (personally) that aside from Haley's abrasive manner, his system may have cause more of his downfall than anything. The EP system we have been running is much more dependent on a quarterback that can quickly read the field and diagnose (like Brady or his previous QB Warner), than other systems like the West Coast O, which is much more about timing and chemistry between QB and receiver. I do think that Matt Cassel (Matt Moore?) possesses traits that may be able to transform him into an average / above average QB in the right system. I do not believe that system to be the one that Haley was so staunch about not changing for some reason. He seemed hellbent and sort of nostalgic about recreating the EP system that they used during his time with Parcells in NY, and I believe this is what Dick Haley meant when he allegedly told Todd that he "cant win with him."

Clearly, given the right circumstances, Matt Cassel is capable of a 11 win season, as he did in his first year starting QB for anyone since high school. But he needs to have a system tailor made to fit him, as well as obviously an OC who is capable of delivering that (Matt worked with the similarly offensively quirky Josh McDaniels in that eleven win season in NE). That type of attitude seems to be what adored Brian Daboll to Miami fans this past year.

Really, Matt Cassel can take the place of any player who is being underutilized in this example. I use him because he is probably the biggest example of it on the team.

I understand the hesitation about the hire. I still have some as well. But I am in the camp of people who believes that this offense has a hell of a lot of talent that is just waiting for someone to come in and do with it what we all think it's capable of. If Brian Daboll is able to achieve that, I think we will be very close to operating as an organization as Scott Pioli intended when he took the job. If we ever want to be the type of team that Clark Hunt wants, that matters.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Nice write-up

This hire grows on me more everyday, he can make chicken salad out of chicken shit and thats exactly what we need.

The positivity from Dolphin fans does give me hope.

Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!

by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 6, 2012 11:19 PM CST reply actions  

me too

it does sort of remind me of how we all felt losing Chan. sure some didn’t like him, but I think there was that “chicken salad” element when he was here. especially with Thiggy under (a few steps behind?) center.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 6, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions  

this is why I was stunned at the Baldwin pick last year ...
maintains that team-first attitude that the Chiefs have installed

great writeup, btw … and I’m more than ready and willing to give Daboll every chance, but I do NOT have any faith in Cassel being any kind of competent QB … Orton yes, Cassel no, regardless of system

going back to Daboll … I know Miami fans love the guy, and he’s done some good things there, but he was pretty atrocious the two years previous with the Browns .. approach with caution, I guess

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by upamtn on Feb 6, 2012 11:28 PM CST reply actions  

definitely an approach with caution sort of thing.

but as far as solidifying our foundation goes, even if it is in year four, it needs to be done. who knows, maybe Daboll can continue to grow (which is another thing RAC says he’s done a lot of lately), and become one of “those coordinators” that are truly coveted by most fanbases.

as far as the non-football stuff goes (referring to the organizational stuff), i like the hire as of right now. hopefully i continue to have that attitude towards the middle / end of next season

for the record, i don’t have much faith in cassel either. but the new quarterback acquisition that we’re all hoping to make this offseason is still out of our control completely. just like i said above, we may be in a position that even pioli doesn’t want to be in next year with just cassel. who knows what he really wants. but he can go after manning, orton, and RGIII hard, and still end up empty handed. in that event, in theory, this hire makes sense to me

by Chris Sembower on Feb 6, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions  

i was pretty shocked at the baldwin pick last year also

i’m reserving my right to pass judgment for another year or two because i love his upside, but aside from the fight (that happens in most training camps at that time), he hasn’t seemed to portray any of those initial fears. i’m hopeful.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Bowe wasn't a team first guy either, but he appears to have bought in.

And Cassel… Cassel has been competent. It’s amazing the die hard faith you had in Brodie, whom has still yet to win A game, and the 100% lack-of you have in Cassel.

Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011

by ArrowSpread on Feb 8, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

You see AS

the two are not interdependent. The former induces the latter.

"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
" I believe you have to be a glass half full person in this league, you really do."--Todd Haley

by Aiken_Drum on Feb 15, 2012 4:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice post, and an interesting perspective

Cassel certainly does not fit a system where quick reads are required.

And I do agree that Haley’s insistence on the “system” was part of his downfall. Like how he’d call the same plays regardless of who was in at RB.

I hope that Daboll is someone who has a system, but is willing to mold that system to conform with the talent given. I believe we have the weapons in place to do something (although I’d sure like to see QB and O-line fixed up), so hopefully we’ll see progress.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 6, 2012 11:42 PM CST reply actions  

exactly

gotta figure he’ll get a piece or two to work with this offseason as well. i’m excited to see what he draws up (that is of course after hopefully seeing at very least some hearty quarterback competition)

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:08 AM CST up reply actions  

Well, if you only call certain plays with certain players, defense gets a big advantage.

Your scat-backs need to squirt up the middle (or cut-back to the middle). Your big backs need to catch some passes and break a few outside.

One of the reasons I didn’t like LJ was he pigeonholed the offense, due to lack of versatility. But I think he was just the tough guy Haley could throw at the pile, to set up the play fake. Wouldn’t get hurt. Check. Wouldn’t put the ball on the ground. Check.

I never would’ve PICKED LJ, myself, especially since KC needed big men, at the time, but that’s Peterson for you.

Give me a stocky, all-around good ’back, any day of the week. Good hands, good blocker, tough up the middle, beat up anybody quicker and quicker ’n anybody who can beat him up. Heh.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 7:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Haha so you're a fan of a RB

With no discernable weaknesses?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

No category below 7. That's the main thing.

The guys I’d be sortin’ through would be the ones that had everything, but were too slow to make a difference for a lot of other teams. If they’re otherwise complete players, I’m not as worried about getting high marks in speed. Quicker than guys bigger and stronger than guys smaller, generally compact. My emphasis is on blockin’ it up right, and havin’ a tough-as-nails SOB who can play physical and will come back for more – something underestimated in Thomas Jones, btw.

To me, Jones was the bell-cow for the KC offense. His YPC was, to me, a barometer on how right the OL was gettin’ it. We all want the guy who can make a difference when things go to shit, but all too often, getting that guy (in the 1st 3 rounds) sets you back in the blockin’-it-up category. I would rather have had Pouncey than McCluster. So would Pioli, to his credit.

I sure wished that Jones could’ve made more of a difference than he made, for the sake of winning more games, short-term, but he was all-around consistent eNOUGH, that a team that was clickin’ around him would’ve made him a star. Not a GREAT pass catcher, but he sure will make the catch on a well-thrown pass, and advance the ball, when the situation falls right. Trick is getting more situations to fall right, and that’s the thing that I seem to worry about more than most.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 22, 2012 7:08 PM CST up reply actions  

But not just the OL. Also the passing game complementing the run game.

And that, too, was pretty weak. Weaker than the WR talent on the field, imo.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 22, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Hoping for the best. He is the right age to be coming into his own.

We may have hit paydirt.

If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?

by electriclight on Feb 6, 2012 11:52 PM CST reply actions  

I did want Al Saunders but..

I was at the Dolphins game.. He made Matt Moore look like a pro-bowler. So we will see, but if memory serves me correct..expect the Chiefs to draft another TE…they were used often in the game..lol

by cyberry on Feb 7, 2012 12:32 AM CST reply actions  

i re-watched that game last night after hearing about all of this

they played great against us. and seemed to expose a number of weaknesses in our D. nice crossing pattern TD by fasano on an overreacting DJ… some nice pulls by different Olineman… Moore looked pretty composed… Jake long did a number on Hali for the most part… BMarshall’s big day… Solid game plan. Romeo’s no pushover, either. He just seemed to get out-schemed that game. It does actually comfort me that our O-coordinator stumped our HC in a real game situation

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:10 AM CST up reply actions   1 recs

"It does actually comfort me that our O-coordinator stumped our HC in a real game situation."

Excellent point.

Toby is in HR, which technically means he works for corporate, so he's really not a part of our family. Also, he's divorced, so he's really not a part of his family.

by Rev. Slappy on Feb 7, 2012 2:33 AM CST up reply actions  

sort of reminds me of Romeo's little comment about Orton during one of the PC's at the end of the year

he said something about not forgetting about the fact that Kyle walked the ball up and down the field at will (49 points…that was an uggggggly game) during their first showdown at Invesco

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 2:40 AM CST up reply actions  

But but but

I thought they cheated in that game! Saw all our practices! No other way they could beat us cuz they couldn’t do jack in Arrowhead that year!

When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.

CHIEFS WILL!

by NJChieffan16 on Feb 7, 2012 1:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Yes, agreed

That does give me some confidence as I imagine most of us view Romeo as one of the better DC’s in the league. Romeo had no help from our offense, but the fact remains that Miami steamrolled us.

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Feb 7, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions  

And Matt Moore lit us up

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Miami definitely steamrolled the Chiefs. Won that game in the trenches.

You watch other games of theirs and they were doing some good things up front.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 7:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Fascinating

I’ll have to go back and re-watch it myself.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Very well written

I’m definitely in the wait-and-see camp for this hire. But you make some very positive and interesting points.

One thing I hope for is that we have coaches and more importantly, coordinators, that will change to fit the strengths of the players, put them in the best positions to be successful, and not just stuobbornly stick to something that clearly isn’t working.

Why was Matt Cassel and Josh McDaniels such hot commodities after 2008? Because the New England staff changed up the offense to best fit Cassel and try to win games with what they had, instead of lose games while trying to force something that doesn’t fit.

That is by far the best coaches; the Belichecks, the Gaileys, whoever accepts his players for what they are in the best interest of winning games and not for what they want them to be for the sake of “sticking to the process”.

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Feb 7, 2012 1:16 AM CST reply actions  

I agree completely

I used to see those clips where the players would say “i just want to thank coach so and so for putting me in a position to succeed” and i would think… man what a load of crap. such a cliche. but it really is true… Because not every coach does (as we just witnessed…)

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:29 AM CST up reply actions  

I've always been a proponent of finding the little things with bad teams to identify a good coach

As much as those “sexy” hires from high flying offenses or defenses built from superstar players excite the masses, I’ll take the more unknowns that find ways to make lowly personnel into average teams, turn the Derek Andersons, Colt Mccoys and Matt Moores into servicable players that put their teams into positions to win more games than most expected them to against teams none believed they would beat.

Those are the coaches that the term “any given sunday” was coined for

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Feb 7, 2012 2:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I completely agree.

it’s sort of the Moneyball approach, applied to football. Find the “right” (there’s that word again…) group of guys on the field with the right skillset, with the right attitude, coached by the right guy, and they can achieve some pretty special stuff.

gotta find all those right guys though…

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 2:21 AM CST up reply actions  

i do think though, that in order to seriously compete for a SB on a regular basis,

we need some of these role players to step up and be full time players. houston and bailey from this last draft come to mind. houston did a good job convincing me he can be SOLB, and if bailey starts doing the two-gap thing like a champ, we’ll be set there.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 2:23 AM CST up reply actions  

Absolutely

But the only way role players step up and contribute are for them to be put in positions for them to be successful by doing what they are good at.

I always defer back to the Pats run in the early 2000s. An unsung part of those teams were their defenses. No real superstars, just players that were put in positions that best utilized their strengths. That was Romeo’s work, and he does it well.

I would wager that is why Romeo likes Daboll so much. He recognizes those same things, and will do what he has to with what he has to make the team competitive. System, comfort, pride be damned.

And you would have to think with Pioli being a part of those same championship Pats and making the system fit Cassel to get to 11 wins, he too would covet that; that was something Haley was not reasonably providing as a coach, as far as we could tell.

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Feb 7, 2012 2:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

It's interesting with Crennel

You see him bring in guys like Smith and Gordon and get productive minutes out of them. I believe that’s similar to what you’d see in NE.

Now I hope he doesn’t bank on that ability too much and still upgrades our talent at NT…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Yup. I think Belichick had a lot to do with it, too.

There’s that priceless sound bite, where he’s talking to a LB (I think), where he tells him “You’re not that quick. Don’t get into a quickness battle with this guy. Play him physical.” That, or words to that effect.

In other threads, folks are talking about how many sacks Cassel took in New England, and a lot of that, I think, was because of the style of offense they switched to, compensating for OL (RT) woes with a mobile QB who could run around and make yards with his feet. Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers take more sacks than some, but it’s because of the style of play they’re in and the surrounding personnel.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Bailey made progress against the run as the year progressed

And is already a superior pass rusher to Dorsey.

Frankly, Dorsey is by far the easiest guy to replace on the line because of our scheme. He’s constantly single-teamed. So any player that replaces him will have an easier job than he would if he were trying to replace T-Jax (who sees double teams almost constantly)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been thinking this more and more. Especially if they keep Gillberry (which I doubt, but I hope they do)

He has a pretty hefty contract also. He may be hard to trade. Surprise release? I can’t believe I’m saying that. But this draft looks pretty strong in 34 DE’s from what I’ve heard. If we snag one with good value, Dorsey may be gone.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't believe we'd have a problem trading Dorsey to a 4-3 team

He is a good-to-excellent run stopper, and has done all right in a system that asks him to do things he’s not built to do.

A team like, oh, I don’t know, the Rams (who DESPERATELY need help stopping the run) could be very interested.

Now, do the Rams have anything WE want by any chance? :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

but with his contract as well? that's really the only thing that makes me wonder.

he has a contract worthy of a skillset that is full of more than run stopping. he’s not pat williams.

i’m just thinking out loud

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Last year of that contract though

With the vast majority (if not all) of the guaranteed money paid out. I believe that could make a big difference.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions  

good point

i hope you’re right because I’d hate the idea of not getting anything from him.

our 34 base D could become pretty stout at stopping the run, rushing the passer (getting Bailey into Dorsey’s spot), and covering (with Berry back to take on the slot / TE). I’d love for us to not have to shift into nickel as much next year. Gotta get another widebody in at NT though…

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

It all depends on RAC's opinion of Powe

I’m not holding out a ton of hope.

I believe Dorsey is completely replaceable without our run D suffering much at all IF we upgrade the NT position with Soliai, Garay, or Pouha. Maybe even Rogers.

I think of it like a math problem. IF, with a better NT and the return of Berry (as well as standard “development”), we manage to only get 10% worse against the run, isn’t that overcome by getting 50% better at rushing the passer from our based D?

And that’s assuming Bailey wouldn’t be able to do what Dorsey does. And given what I saw (I don’t know if you saw it, but my last post discussed the two at length based on hundreds of snaps watched), Bailey is more than capable of handling a single blocker in the manner Dorsey has been asked to do.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Hard to say about Powe.

I think he’s AOK physically, but one of the reasons RAC has stuck with those veteran NTs (Edwards and now Gregg) is they keep their heads in the game, and doing their job is more important than making a splash.

Even though we weren’t overjoyed with Edwards in the middle, and KC didn’t put great pressure on the QB in 2010, without blitzing, the RAC-led defense shored up one of the biggest issues with D-Line: escape lanes for the QB. Our front 3 might not get to the QB, but if he wants to escape, he has to take the LOOOONNNNGGGGG way around, and can’t just squirt up the middle, picking his way around prone d-linemen, who went for the sack and ran themselves (or belly-flopped themselves) out of position.

If they keep that Master Kim thing going with D-Line, I think Powe will get off his blocks better. That was the main thing I didn’t really like about him, much. As a natural 2-gapper in college, I think he’ll master the technique at the pro level.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 7:50 PM CST up reply actions  

I hope you're right about Powe

That would be a huge, unexpected boost for our defense and remove one of our biggest needs without having to go to the FA well…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

It IS interesting (and hopeful)

How Anderson, McCoy, and Moore all had their most respectable seasons under Daboll…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

I’ve read a number of articles quoting QBs like Brady and Pennington where they credit Daboll with teaching them tons about the intricacies of defensive play (as he was a DB in college) and how they attack the offense. I got really excited when I read that. Because that is needed in his attack style O (in my opinion). And not all coaches approach it that way.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Focusing on attacking rather than "not screwing up?"

What a novel approach! :)

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions  

"not screwing up"

and not out-thinking ourselves.

this is what I am most happy to see regardless who we just signed at OC. i love the “attacking” comments. i still voted not sure in the poll though. like a true MO’ian, SHOW ME MOFO!

the expat formally known as Chiefsinchina

by Shanghai_Chiefs on Feb 9, 2012 8:44 PM CST up reply actions  

That was the big difference McClain seemed to be talking about when Kyle Orton played.

An understanding of tendencies, and attacking them. I didn’t like Orton’s reaction-time to counter-tendency looks given by the opposing defenses. He trusted his pre-snap reads more than what his eyes told him post-snap. Could be a vision issue. Could just be familiarity with the team and scheme, and how much extra processing the new guy had to make.

I think Haley drew up a game plan that he thought played to his players’ strengths and we were maybe wrong to blame him for failures in execution by the players. But I definitely saw signs in AZ and KC that he wasn’t as quick to adjust to what defenses were doing. That, again, is not necessarily a bad thing in an OC, because a good DC can ALSO see what’s working, and change things up on you, anticipating the types of plays you’re likely to switch to. If you have a QB that can’t adjust along with you, and see things for what they are, you might be limited. It’s the old double-double-reverse psychology thing that can turn out to be a wash and maybe for the worse, if your players are inflexible.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 7:58 PM CST up reply actions  

It's awesome to watch a team execute when the defense knows exactly what's coming and can't stop it.

That’s the big case to be made for an elite Oline. KC hasn’t had many (any) plays of late that were unstoppable.

If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?

by electriclight on Feb 12, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions  

Short yardage, yeah. Gettin' that movement is the brass ring.

It was basically what decided whether Switzer would win another SB. When they lost that, Switzer couldn’t win a championship.

But I still suffer a Marty hangover and that was part of his philosophy: Execute at a high level, and win even when the defense has the right call on. IMO, it’s why he was unsuccessful as a HC. And when he came around a little, he was clumsy with the changeups. His son, Brian is cut from the same cloth, and he was handed an offense that let him be that way.

One thing about those Dallas offenses was that they ran and passed out of that same I formation. Sure, they’d do OK even when the D called it right, but they manufactured big plays by catching the D NEEDING to respect the best-in-league OL threats on the ground. (I’d say Emmitt, but he was pretty much a Thomas Jones, who was more fluid on the screens, at least for a good chunk of his record-breaking career).

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 22, 2012 7:15 PM CST up reply actions  

Daboll is the future HC of the Chiefs if he succeeds here

this is why he was brought in over Saunders. I read on a comment somewhere that Daboll has run the offense PeyPey plays in in IND

There are no stupid questions just stupid people

by IPWT2009 on Feb 7, 2012 2:11 AM CST reply actions  

The K-Gun, I believe

the same hurry-up system that the bills used to get to those 4 SBs in the 90’s

Ironically, that system requires two or three good receivers, a versitile tight end, and running back.

check, check, and check.

I’m just sayin.

I’ve thought about that before as well. If Daboll can run it, he has the perfect K-Gun offensive personelle here.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 2:18 AM CST up reply actions  

One more thing

I’m not fan of Cassel, but IMO he’s looked better when in a hurry-up setting, when he doesn’t have to “think” nearly as much.

I hope we move on from him, but that would be more ideal than the offense haley was running.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree on the hurry up thing

which is one reason I feel like he’d have a hell of an easier time in a WC offense where more often than not he knows where the ball will be going

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree

His biggest liability by far seems to be his brain. So take the thinking out of it (see; Harbough’s work with Smith this year) and let his skill players make him look good.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

yep Smith is a prime example of exactly what we're talking about

it CAN be done. i’m not rooting for them to start QB7 or anything… but if it absolutely has to come down to it even after Pioli tries his ass off to get another, I’m confident that someone can scheme enough with the other players we have to hide some of his deficiencies. Daboll has that type of resume, so… I’m hopeful as of now.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Me too

More so thanks to your post :)

I still would be thrilled at a big time move to trade for RG3 or acquire Peyton, though.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Thanks :)

I actually think that Peyton makes an awful lot of sense from both angles, his and ours. He would step onto a team that’s A LOT like the one he won the SB with originally

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Take into account a weak division

And not in the NFC with his brother and most of the other elite QBs…

I agree. The most talented teams without franchise QBs are SF, NYJ, and us in some order.

The Jets are getting worse and older, and are still very financially tied to Sanchez. They also (from what I know) don’t have nearly the cap room we do, nor do they have the receivers we do.

The Niners are a threat. Better defense, better coach, better O-line. Worse receivers, but that’s about it.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions  

Any offense can be a K-Gun system if the players are in place (as Sembower mentioned above me).

If your skill position guys are above-average to good and your quarterback has a series of plays he’s comfortable calling, you can have a K-Gun with crossing patterns, “go” routes, double TE sets, full house sets………

Daboll will succeed if—-

1) he is as flexible as he seemed to be in ’10 (Cleveland, when he made Hillis a star) and ’11 (Miami, when he made Bush a solid back and accentuated the wides and TE), and

2) he hires a solid staff to work with him. We have to have teachers on this squad, not yellers, scheme mavens, or yes-men.

If the guys play with good technique and he calls plays to suit the talent on the field, OR provides our QB with a series of plays suiting the talent and lets the QB make the call (K Gun system), we’ll be in good shape.

Vermin Supreme in 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY

by go_saleaumua on Feb 7, 2012 8:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Dude I have a lot of respect for you, Sal.

But Matty Nice sure as hell isn’t the QB you want making decisions out about anything! It doesn’t matter what series of plays. He runs the scripted ones the best. With Matty, Its, “uhhh … what should I do here … Jim … Todd … Bill … Casey … Thomas .. Dwayne … what do you want???” Just have Matty throw quick, short passes from three step drops … or the shotgun (yeah from the hurry up/no huddle, or the conventional – just as long as its using the “Rhythm Method”) to a predetermined spot and/or receivers. He CAN’T read defenses! So for the love of god, DON’T let him audible; he ain’t Jim Kelly! Do NOT let Matty think! Have a good one, bruh. :+)

A Dog's Heart
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by LocoLoboChico on Feb 7, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

...and when did I say I wanted Cassel in the K-Gun?

Other than that, I pretty much second everything you said.

I was talking about our QB….if that’s Cassel, then yes we have to spoon feed him three options and let him run one of those three. Anyone else, we can mix it up a bit.

Vermin Supreme in 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY

by go_saleaumua on Feb 7, 2012 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I tend to agree, and YET, I've seen Cassel make quite a few good area throws, based on where defenders were.

He wasn’t always on the same page with his WRs, and some of those looked like WR reading the coverage better than Cassel did. But there were cases where Cassel was playing keep-away from the DB and the WR wasn’t anticipating. One of the Manning brothers would’ve explained this and gotten the WR on-board.

But on the main point, I agree that the quick pass off the play-call or pre-snap read is where Cassel makes his better throws. Give him an extra couple seconds with the 4-man rush and, assuming he doesn’t stumble into the arms of a defender, he doesn’t seem to have the patience or the accuracy to make use of that time. I think it very likely that it’s a vision thing.

But part of it could be a trust thing. Like Eli talking pre-SB about trusting a WR. If the WR is trustworthy, Eli’ll make that pass. If he’s not trustworthy, we all bitch about how Eli didn’t anticipate the opening as good as big bro’ would’ve. Getting inside Eli’s thought process a little explained a lot and explained why, with WRs he trusts, Eli’s an elite QB (going back to my defense of so many cast-off QBs).

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 8:11 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's a funny result of going back and re-watching game film for the "breakdown" posts...

I hate Cassel a little less. I mean, he’s still not a good QB. But he’s not as awful as I remember.

That said, “not awful” isn’t nearly enough. Still, it was weird…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Yes. And there IS a progression in his play.

I’m still not sure how instinctive he MIGHT look in the pocket, with a LITTLE better pass pro’ and run game.

I’ve basically seen him prove to me, at one time or another, that he CAN do this or that thing that I bitched about him not being able to do. And maybe he WILL learn to slide if there’s a more regular place to slide to, and he might be able to slide AND see the field, if he can start trusting his guys. The thing is, they still haven’t really been all that trustworthy. We NOTICE the times they WERE trustworthy and he wasn’t A-Plus, but it can be deceptive. Just a little more trust and maybe he slides around better than Brady. But a major contrast between Brady in NWE and Cassel in KC is the high number of plays Brady gets where he can just reposition and wait for his guys to get to the double move.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 22, 2012 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

very interesting and if you're right it's a very good sign

I’ve never been fond of coaches who have to run “their system” and require massive overhaul of rosters to be competitive. I much prefer coaches who look at what they have and use a scheme that works with their current talent.

by aFan4Life on Feb 7, 2012 7:50 AM CST reply actions  

I see you edited ... nice miniposterize ... COORDINATE!

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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 7, 2012 8:06 AM CST reply actions  

iCOORDINATE

our new OC comes from the Apple tree of coaching

the expat formally known as Chiefsinchina

by Shanghai_Chiefs on Feb 9, 2012 8:48 PM CST up reply actions  

nice

I agree with you and hope this guy works out.

by kc_okerix on Feb 7, 2012 8:52 AM CST reply actions  

Good stuff Chris

I’m starting to warm up to the hire a bit. He does sound like a Gailey type, which is what we need, because we don’t have the skill at QB for anything else.

I’ve got a bad feeling that we’ll be rolling with Cassel again this season (puke) and it’s horribly depressing. I’m praying for at least Orton, but I don’t think we get him, RG3 or Peyton. Maybe Daboll can figure out a way to will us to some wins despite Cassel with some big help from the D. You’ve at least given me a little hope.

TOUCHDOWN! KAN-SAH-CITY!!!

by TheScootness on Feb 7, 2012 10:00 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks Scoot

I share your bad feeling. Though Romeo has quelled those fears some by his Cassel responses in his press conferences. Possibily indicative of nothing, but I’m hopeful it’s code for “we at very least hear you and are trying to solve this problem ourselves”

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Nice job Chris

It’s also nice to put a little analysis in there. I’m tired of the “Cassel sucks, replace him at all costs” stuff on here. I can definitely see where those posters are coming from, though. Maybe there is hope for #7. I think i’m slowly creeping in to offseason mode. Hope springs eternal, and all that.

Aw, what am I saying? Pitchforks and torches, everyone! Burn! Pillage! Replace!

by Ozarks on Feb 7, 2012 1:21 PM CST reply actions  

Haha

thanks Ozarks. I’m definitely one that is going to remain pretty “hands off” in my criticism of the QB situation this offseason because I recognize that no matter how much I think I know, I don’t know anything compared to the poeple making the decisions. But I’m going to grow pretty sad if we get into next season and I feel like we are nowhere and didn’t even try to get somewhere.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Very nice write up Chris

and I agree wholeheartedly. We’re both twitter addicts, so you’ll understand what I mean when I say, “the only folks I’ve seen down on the Chiefs hiring of Daboll is the fans.” I haven’t seen one football writer knock the Chiefs for hiring Daboll. All say, “excellent choice…solid…should do well” etc.
I’m not going to say Daboll is the next thing since sliced bread, but I’ll say I’ve gone from uninspired and partially ticked off to excited for what he brings to the table. You mentioned Josh McDaniels and Daboll could possibly have as much potential as McD, if not more, and a lot less repuatation to worry about.

by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 7, 2012 1:34 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed on every level

I think I said something on twitter the other day about the fact that the only people I see in the anti-Daboll camp are citing stats as their reason to hate. Everyone in the pro-Daboll camp cites games they watched. I much prefer the opinions of the ones who actually watched it, regardless of whether their opinions coincided with mine.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I was at the Miami game

and yes, we were torched. That team was just waiting to break out and I’d say their defense was a bigger achilles heel than the offense. You could definitely see the team buy in a little more and grasp what he was teaching as each week progressed. If we could get everyone to participate in OTAs, have a strong off season and training camp, we could very well have a powerful offense hit the field in 2012.

by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 7, 2012 1:49 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we could as well.

especially if we can add some pieces to it like we have the last couple of years. Give Daboll a new toy or two…

by Chris Sembower on Feb 7, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Rec'd
the only people I see in the anti-Daboll camp are citing stats as their reason to hate. Everyone in the pro-Daboll camp cites games they watched

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 7, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions  

Excellent write up Chris.

Many others could learn what a good post is from this one! Well thought out, well written, and you have discussion based on it cuz of the aforementioned. I too am warming up to Daboll. It’ll be interesting to see if he measures up to that promise of what he can provided.

by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 7, 2012 8:40 PM CST reply actions  

great post

so let’s draft us that QB then RG3!!!

by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 7, 2012 10:16 PM CST via Android app reply actions  

however comma....

His best offense in any season finished 22nd in the league. As for the QB, Matt Cassell is a career backup. Just watch video of him and compare it to any of the elite qb’s in the league. Hell, watch Orton in his first game against Green Bay. Fantastic performance. Cassell’s progressions are slower, he locks in on one receiver early and if it’s not there, he throws it away most of the time. That’s not going to change, even with the best coaches out there. May, Daboll has an interest in keeping Orton around since Miami did make a play for him last season.

by mrdenver1 on Feb 8, 2012 11:10 PM CST reply actions  

it was refreshing to see Orton throw the ball to Copper when he saw the 1-on-1.

I’ve always thought Copper was better than his press clippings. And not just Copper.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 8:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm gonna go on a limb

and say I like the hire of Daboll.. Its interesting how similar the Dolphins players compare to Chiefs. And I think we have more skill so im kind of excited to see what he can do!

and I’m still not 100% on board that Cassel is the guy.. I’d really like to see Pioli to get Orton back and with our first draft pick sign a O-lineman. I think that alone would help sure things up on offense

by sweetactionjackson13 on Feb 10, 2012 10:22 PM CST reply actions  

absolutely agree

I think Oline needs to be a priority for sure (RT at very, very least). I would definitely hope to see Cassel upgraded as well. In a perfect world, someone who isn’t quite so handcuffed by his system.

by Chris Sembower on Feb 10, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Cassel

has his moments but most of the time i cringe every time he drops back to pass it lol

by sweetactionjackson13 on Feb 10, 2012 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree.

sure would be nice to have a guy that inspired some confidence on a regular basis

by Chris Sembower on Feb 11, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions  

One of the reasons I like Campbell.

Watching him play in Oakland, he might only get a handful of good looks, but that handful of plays, the ball’s delivered.

I want a QB who, when Al Michaels says “He has time….” something GOOD happens for the offense.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I wasn't sold on this hire...

because it wasn’t a “sexy” choice. A friend made me realize that I was just hoping for another Todd Haley type. I really wanted a hotshot OC with big ideas….

Upon reading this article, reading the comments, and pondering my own reflection in my imaginary koi pond, I’m effing stoked. Or, rather, I’m trying to be. The qualities I respect in a coach above all is the ability to prepare for an opponent, use the talent on hand, and and adapt/adjust throughout a game. It sounds like that may be what MR. Daboll does best. I can’t think of a bigger contrast in running backs than going from hillis to bush.

An endorsement from Tom Brady goes a long way with me as well.

I think I’m getting excited.

@relaxingpoo

by RelaxingPoo on Feb 11, 2012 12:44 AM CST reply actions  

I'm right there with ya Poo

I admire those same qualities in a coach that you listed above. Similar approach that Romeo has on D, it seems. I’m stoked about the thought that someone could bring that same puzzle-solving mentality to our O

by Chris Sembower on Feb 11, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the success of the new OC will depend more on fixing OL than 'most anything else.

I don’t want ‘em standing still on QB, but if they DO, there better be some developments from Cassel. But I just think it’s unlikely we’ll see them. (sigh)

In my view of the league, many OCs are the product of the players they’re blessed with. Same with DCs (like Gunther).

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Feb 11, 2012 8:23 PM CST reply actions  

I don't care honestly..

Show me an assistant coach in the NFL and I’ll show you a feel good story of some kind, they all got’um. This guys got an inovative approach, that guys got a winning attitude that carried him through blah blah blah.

All I know is this, he better start off shitting tiffany cufflinks or he’s gonna be the poster boy for fail in KC.

Personally I’m kinda glad we went no name, but I think we did so as much for the front offices rep around the league as for who was interested.

by Scythian on Feb 14, 2012 2:56 PM CST reply actions  

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