Why Drafting Robert Griffin Is Not Optional For The Kansas City Chiefs
by SillyHatDay on Feb 4, 2012 2:39 PM CST
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PrintI've had my fill of some things around here. The one I've reached my wits end on in the QB conversation. I can't take anymore of this Peyton Manning and Matt Cassel talk. I'm going to go through and dismantle the arguments in favor of these guys.
Then I'll show why The Chiefs cannot afford to not afford RG3 this April. Enjoy the ride.
First, put Peyton Manning out of your heads. Bringing him in is terribly short-sighted and foolhardy for a number of reasons. Among them are his age, health, expense, and opportunity cost. At 36, Manning is in the twilight of his career. At best we would hope to wring 3 years out of him. At the end of that period we're sitting in 1995 again, wondering what to do with our QB vacancy and likely no jewelry to show for it. Also consider than Peyton's neck may never be truly right again. It'd feel pretty shitty to have the most expensive man in football riding our bench because his neck has been aggravated by hits from DL escorted to him by Barry Richardson. Even if he stays healthy, the cost is not worth it twofold. Pioli has played the salary cap pretty well thus far, keeping us in position to be able to retain players we develop (Hali, DJ, Bowe, Carr). Maybe we get an uncertainty discount on Manning but he's still going to be expensive enough to obliterate our cap space. "But we have to spend it all anyway!" Right, so spend it on players who can contribute long term. Thus is the opportunity cost. We could spend in on, I don't know, a QBoTF prospect instead.
As for Cassel and the rest of our QBs, they're a platoon of mediocrity. I feel generous calling Cassel average and likewise I think the term discounts Orton a little. Either way neither stray appreciably far from the mean. The point I want to slam home here is that average, or even above average, just isn't good enough. If the best one can say of your (non rookie) QB is that "he's above average" then you should be moving mountains to find a replacement. Average QBs can and do make the playoffs with regularity. My definition of a successful season for the Chiefs is winning a playoff game. I've seen us get there enough, but I'm not old enough to have seen a win. As far as the franchise goes, lets talk about who has won playoff games here.
The last time the Cheifs won a playoff game, Joe Montana was at the helm. Of the playoff games the Cheifs/Texans have won, either Montana or Len Dawson was the QB for 7 of the 8. These two men, Dawson and Montana, are the only two QBs in Chiefs history anyone would even consider using the word elite to describe. Outside of them there are only two other QBs the Chiefs have fielded that I would consider better than average by a significant margin. They are Trent Green and Steve DeBerg(debatable, I know). As for that outlier in the 7 of 8 number, it was won by Mr. DeBerg in 1991.
Maybe the Chiefs have just had a spurt of bad luck for the last half century or so. To judge this, let's look at what kind of QBs typically make it to the superbow. I went through every SuperBowl since 2000 and rated all 26 QBs on a 1-5 scale. 5= great 4=well above average 3= roughly average 2= well below average 1= awful. Of those who appeared, here they are by rating:
5: P. Manning, Brees, Brady, Roethlisberger, Warner, Rogers
4: E. Manning, McNabb, Delhomme, Gannon, Collins, McNair
3: B. Johnson, T. Dilfer, Hasselbeck,
2: Grossman
I know some of you could quibble with some of those but keep in mind it's rough, and I gave primacy to the year of play. Some notes about what my crude rating scale shows: The average SB QB comes in at 4.4, or very good. On only three occasions do I have the inferior QB prevailing: E. Manning def. Brady, T. Dilfer def. Collins, and B. Johnson def. Gannon. Recall that in 2002 the Buc's coach was John Gruden, who knew the opposing Raiders inside and out, having been their coach the year before. No 5 rated QB lost a SB without also having won one. The only non-5 to appear in more than one SB is E. Manning. Of the 26 SB appearances, 65% were by 5s. 85% were by a 5 or 4. The point here is that unless you have a top end QB, your chances of getting to a SB are tiny. Said another way: if you want a SB ring, you need at least a very good QB.
via static6.businessinsider.com
This April, the biggest thing in Quarterbacking since Peyton Manning is going to be on the board. He'll go to IND, ironically, to succeed Manning. There is, however, a nice consolation prize for a team willing be be aggressive in the QB market. Robert Griffin would be the high prize in any other draft. He's a brilliant guy, has exceptional accuracy, and luminal speed to boot. A good decision maker with an accurate arm is rarely any worse than "good." He's got "franchise QB" written all over him. The Chiefs MUST be aggressive in trying to acquire him through the draft. St. Louis bought all their stock in Sam Bradford, so they'll be looking to deal 2 overall to a QB hungry team. A team that has won fewer playoff games in the last half century than chance should permit should certianly be that team. It doesn't matter what it would take to move up to 2 to get him; give St Louis whatever bounty they ask. If we get a franchise QB out of the deal no one will look back and think "man, just wasn't worth it." The skeptic could argue that he's just a prospect, and we have no way of knowing how good he'll be in the NFL. That's only true because it's true of every player ever drafted. Fact is that the draft is where NFL players come from, so that's where you're going to make (or break) your team. This team has very few holes in it. RT, maybe ILB could use an upgrade, but QB is the crater in the team. It's outsized importance mandates that we be aggressive in fixing it. It is therefore imperative that we move up in the draft and select Robert Griffin. Maybe the experiment fails, but we're already failing by not trying.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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totally wreck'd, Silly ... not necessarily on board with it (I'm an Orton kinda guy) but major props for a killer post!
probably a good thing if Pioli NEVER looks at Arrowhead Pride, we’re so “all over the place” with out opinions the guy could freeze in terms of making a decision if he actually listened to us all
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Feb 4, 2012 2:50 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
We have to walk away from Peyton
He is (was?) an outstanding QB that any team would have killed for when in his prime. However, the key phrase is “in his prime”. He no longer is. At 36 years old, he would be on the down swing with no major neck injury. Yet, he does have a major injury that kept him out an entire season. It isn’t an ACL, or hammie or high ankle sprain. It is a neck injury that affects nerves to his throwing arm. A neck injury he has had surgery for at least twice. A neck injury that affects his velocity and “feel”.
Are you all willing to take a chance on a 36 year old QB at best on the decline, and at worst, one hard hit away from the drool squad? If we are going to mortgage the future for one guy, shouldn’t it be for someone with a lot more upside than one or two years tops?
I don’t want to be competing for “a” championship, I want to be competing year in and year out for that same championship for 13-15 years.
Walk away from Peyton, embrace the Griffin.
Spruce, I agree on "walk away from Peyton" but I dislike the idea of trading draft picks
I know RH3 is a talent, not a question of that in my mind, but I’d prefer grabbing Orton back … the guy can play, he knows our system, or players, he’s proven he can move the ball with our team already, he’s proven he’s a good enough QB to get us at least to the playoffs, IMO
by trading off draft picks we lessen our ability to continue to build the team (through the draft) and to get players that would help any good QB be a winner … in addition, as good as RG3 is, there’s nothing written in stone that says that next year might not be an even better time to “take the chance” and draft a QBotF
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The problem with waiting until next year is that we've been doing that for the last 30.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
by MtHammer on Feb 4, 2012 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is RH3 the half brother of RG3?
I know RH3 is a talent
That’ll be cool like the Pounceys and the Mannings!
Jared Allen, Culinary Acadamy
by aPacificChief on Feb 4, 2012 10:20 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know
You discount Manning, and then point out Montana… You want Griffin, who not only is out of our reach, but not a guy Pioli would take at our pick anyway… And you can’t spell CHIEFS!!!
I don’t think we get a QB in this draft unless it’s a developmental guy who slips. Bring in a free agent, whether it be Manning, Orton, Campbell, or maybe even a Matt Moore type, and hope for an elite guy in the draft next year or the year after.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Montana had 3-4 Rings?
and didn’t have three recent Neck surgeries either
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 4, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
+ Montana didn't get the Chiefs to the promise land.
It was great while it lasted, but ultimately it didn’t pay off. No Lombardi’s.
got us close with not much talent.
imagine how close manning would get us with talent.
by kc-twitch on Feb 4, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Assuming he could play a full season without ending up on the IR.
And also assuming he still has zip on his passes. Impinged nerves are funny things.
If Manning could stay on the field, and produce at the level we expect from him
If not its a costly mistake that not only sets the franchise back for years in the QB position, but also could cost us Carr/Bowe/etc
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
it could ... he ain't gonna come cheaply
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Manning stated
he would be willing to play for a team without a big up-front salary, and instead have an “incentivized” contract…i.e. if he makes the playoffs, wins playoff games, etc. he gets paid more…that sounds like a great deal for the Chiefs….
http://www.lfpress.com/sports/football/2012/02/05/19341116.html
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 6, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The Montana deal certainly worked out
That was one of the greatest years for Chiefs fans. Not all great seasons end with a Super Bowl and I’d take 2 or 3 years like ’93 in a heartbeat.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 4, 2012 4:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
amen to that
montana torching defenses, while DT was making elway wish that he was playing for an NFC team. good times
Seriously, when have I ever been sarcastic?
This
And people say, “only 3 seasons” as if it’s a bad thing.
Isn’t that 3 full seasons to find and develop a QB?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
What did we do to develope a QB while Montana Started?
Nothing, cept wait on the next San Francisco QB to become available
So... we actually develop someone this time?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
that would be exciting
Providing COLOR commentary for Arrowhead Pride! AKA The Picture Diva!
"I am not embarrassed to be with a younger man, except when I drop him off at school."-Angie Dickinson, veteran vixen
How long does it take Weeden to develop? He could potentially be drawing social security by then.
Twitter: @RaiderHater86
Go ahead, judge Weeden, He's a man...he's 40. He can take it.
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
You a Vermin Supreme fan too?
“If elected, I will ensure everyone in America gets a pony”
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Mandatory Toothbrushing got me on board.
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
Think of the money we'll save in health care costs!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
that is the fault of Carl Peterson's drafting strategy.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 4, 2012 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
best postseason success in 40 years yet people think it didn't work out
I really don’t get some people
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Feb 4, 2012 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
it wasn't the obtaining Montana that didn't work out
it was the lack of obtaining his replacement that sent the Chiefs down the Bono/Grbac path
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 4, 2012 6:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So we obtain Manning
Then draft a replacement next year.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I am about sick and tired of hearing, Next Year
MIZ-DGB
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Feb 4, 2012 3:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
agree
at what point do we stop deluding ourselves that next year will be any different. every year it’s not the right time, but next year will be. don’t get me wrong, i’ve been on that side of the argument as well, but enough is enough. this team can not, and will not, take the next step toward being dominate until we get a franchise QB. manning is not the answer. he may give us a few good years, but he’ll eventually retire, and if he does what everyone hopes, leaving us drafting later in the draft, decreasing our chances of getting that top tier QB. all the while our young team gets older. the time is this year, not next year.
Seriously, when have I ever been sarcastic?
So you know 100% Pioli would not take RGIII?
Like how so many people were 100% sure he would not take a safety that high, even AFTER the quotes came out?
How is he out of our reach? We have the picks to make a trade, and players that could be included.
Yes let’s do this same thing NEXT year.. after we win the West with our IR players back. Can’t wait to hear how we will get an elite prospect next year sitting in the 20s!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know 100%
but he has actually said that spread QBs are garbage.
He is out of our reach because there are several teams ahead of us who could want to trade up. If Cleveland wants him, we can’t dream of outbidding them. Same goes for Washington. We would have to hope neither of them plays and we could compete with Seattle or Miami. It is going to be a hell of a trade foor whoever gets RG3, and I can’t see a GM who hates spread QBs and normally trades down making the biggest deal.
And while I am frustrated, too, at the idea of Cassel or Orton at the reigns again, next year does look a lot better than this year because two of the first round grades opted out of competing with Luck. Next year there will likely be four or five first round grades for QBs, and we might well get one in the 20’s, or at least only have to trade up to 10 instead of up to 2…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Yeah trade up next year.. when we are in the 20s instead of this year at 11/12 makes sense? not.
Not all spreads are the same, nor are QBs the same.
Really? The Browns/Skins/Hawks/Phins could dangle Bowe/Dorsey/Gilberry/Carr? Not saying any of those are in play.. but we have way more ammo than any other team. Rams need a #1 WR.. Bowe may not want to play here, hey look tag and trade. etc
Jones fell like a rock this year, Barkley stayed. He is the top prospect followed by others including Bray.. we don’t know how their seasons will go of if they will regress.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 8:04 PM CST up reply actions
agree with bam all the way
let’s do this already draft RG3 and not wait another year
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 5, 2012 9:23 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
is that like how you're 100% sure Manning is too old and injured to play? or how you're 100% sure that Stanzi sucks and your interpretation of the qb situation this year is the right one?
How is he out of reach? because there are QB needy teams ahead of us. And one of those teams has a stupid owner.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
We have more to offer than most teams
100% sure I do not want to take a risk on Manning.. just another old crappy stop gap that does not help this team in the long run.
100% sure he couldn’t beat out Palko, so yes.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 8:55 AM CST up reply actions
THIS IS ALL CONJECTURE ON YOUR PART. All of it.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
Let's see
I put ‘I DO NOT WANT’ and he couldn’t beat out Palko..
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Manning's crappy
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Now that is a Fan Post!
also rec.
I totally agree with the premise. No need to send players to St. Louis just picks. In this 2012 draft we might only score a solid hit on 1 player anyway. Send it all to St. Louis if they want it for the #2
my opinion.
I disagree with this post personally. Yea we probably would have manning for only like 3 years but you act like thats a horrible 3 years? He has been medically cleared by the best of the best here and noway he would just risk it if he wasnt cleared so to bring in his medical status like its a reason not to get him is pointless right? No your not going to have a ton of money sitting on the bench if you do its during the year he gets hurt and you got that with any player, we all know if he gets hurt again he will retire and we get our money back and we are in the same scenario we are in now except hopefully in a better situation to move up realistically for a QB of the future unlike now.
have to say it sounds more like excuses of not getting manning rather than reality of getting manning will actually do for us, its peyton manning for crying out loud he is a different bread he is not falling off right now cause his age he is to smart been to smart the whole time he will play at a high level no other QB we can think of getting will give us in those 3 years if he is here.
only a fool wouldnt want a medically cleared peyton manning he gives you the best chance at getting a ring RGIII doesnt give you that chance your just lucky if he gives you a panthers season this year.
by kc-twitch on Feb 4, 2012 3:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Where does it say we get our money back?
and why would Manning sign a contract if he gets hurt and doesn’t get paid
if he retires we no longer have that big contract?
not saying you get back the money spent on years he played but after he is gone you dont have to keep paying him? do you?
any player on our team or any team runs the risk of getting hurt usually the QB is protected more than any other player so actually less risk with peyton when you think about it so if he does get hurt yea its possible and we would lose out on that time in that year but thats with any player so thats pointless to bring up right?
say we sign him?
3 years 60 Million dollars with 30 Million as a signing bonus/ or guaranteed.
He plays one year and retires he gets that 30 Million and we have to eat the Cap hit over the 3 years or 10 million per year or something like that
plus the 20 mil for that one year he did play (or partial year)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
While that 20 mil is pretty much the cost of the #1 overall pick now
With those contracts you can afford to strike out until you hit a home run
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
Give him wings?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
The deal he has with Indy if they pick it up
is a $28M signing bonus with four years of salaries at $7.4M, $8.4M, $9.4M, and $10.4M through 2016. That would give cap numbers of $14.4M, $15.4M, $16.4M, and $17.4M. That’s actually only $15.9M a year for four years. All indications are that he will back off of that a little, at least reducing the bonus/guarantees, which he will have to do because of the injury concern. It was a five year, $90M deal for Indy because they gave him $26M last year, but it’s not that horrible for another team even if he actually demanded that… If they take the bonus down to $15M and made the salary incentive based, he could get $16M a year and not cause the least bit of cap problems for the Chiefs.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
by nmchief on Feb 4, 2012 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't matter what his deal with Indy is
There won’t be a trade, and it will be a new contract with his new team. Old QB with a bad injury.. don’t see anyone shelling out a huge contract
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
nmchief nice comment, thanks for taking care of what I wanted to say.
notice the comments stopped after your comment basically. except one more comment that was well pointless to what you just said just more excuses.
Yeah ok lets talk about past contracts that have no weight on the possible
last one Manning could get.. but pointing out that his last contract means nothing.. is an excuse? Maybe you should go through and read that Indy can not trade Manning due to his contract, so he will be cut, and has said that he is willing to take a contract with almost no bonus/guaranteed…
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
My point was that even if he demanded the money he was looking at,
It wouldn’t be all that bad. And as I stated, and you reiterated, he has already said he might take less, or at least less guarantees and bonus money. I was replying to a comment that said he would get 3 yeras/$60M with $30M guaranteed, and that the contract he negotiated last year along with his comments since imply that he’ll come cheaper…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
twitch, I have to disagree ... it's not at all pointless, in fact it's a major point in my mind
to bring in his medical status like its a reason not to get him is pointless right?
and Steve’s right> should that happen the money is gone … as of now we don’t even know that Manning can sling a football around the way he used to, regardless of how good he says he feels
and while his doctors may have cleared him to play, there are other doctors who are very familiar with the 3 surgeries that he’s had and they have doubts about the wisdom of his returning to football … I don’t think one can cavalierly dismiss the opinions of others in the medical field that easily
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
its pointless to keep saying his neck injury will prevent him from playing when he has been medically cleared.
that excuse is done! no longer valid. if he couldnt sling it anymore or play at his level of play he wouldnt keep trying to play we all know this some of us just dont want to admit it cause they dont agree with picking him up so they say basically whatever even pointless stuff that has been dismissed to keep it going on how they dont want him.
Get an Indy QB? Okay. I'll take one who has nerves that still function from neck to arm to hand
That’d be Orlovsky or Painter, it seems.
If Pey Pey is recovered, great. But when a man’s nerves are screwed up it’s…kind of a bad deal.
You want him here, no excuses, because he’s cleared to begin practicing. Groovy. When his passes go from A (his hand) to B (a wideout’s hand) without any issue, I’m just as for Peyton Manning as you. But I’m not sold on the wiring being good in the house, even though the inspector said there’s no flood damage anymore—it’s all dried out.
Get my point?
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
by go_saleaumua on Feb 5, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually being cleared does not mean much
Yes there has been regeneration, however he still has a much higher risk of re-injuring it and being done with football, it has also been said that at this point he does not have the arm strength he used to.
Like a kid throwing a tantrum he didn’t get the candy he wanted in the store
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
obviously nobody wants a guy that is screwed up and wont play at a high level.
That being said though it wont be that way with peyton, I just dont see him as the type a guy to know something is wrong with him to keep him from playing at his level of great play and just out for a payday while sitting,
if peyton cant play at a his high level he would retire and problem solved thats the kind of guy peyton is. I dont see the risk you all are trying to make out.
He is 1 hit away from being done
He could play, and play for years at a high level or we could put our future on him and he could take 1 hit on the frozen turf in Arrowhead and be done.. and we are left in this same position.
He loves the game, he is going to play, not just for the money. The body can’t always keep up with the mind.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 5:47 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He is 1 hit away from being done
Isn’t everyone? How do we know how particularly susceptible he is to injury?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Several APers have even said they have had the injury and the risk of re-injuring it is higher
Lots of reports about his injury have stated that
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 5:52 AM CST up reply actions
I say we sent Indy our first and third...
for Curtis Painter.
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
Oh I like this idea too!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
We'll call him the Little Dutch Boy...or maybe Shelac.
He’ll gloss the town over with his courageous, heartfelt, Purdue quarterbacking. Hey, it got Indy right where they wanted to be this year, didn’t it? :D
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
manning
Buys time to find your qb of the future plus hey our core ain’t getting younger and there super bowl ready with manning playoff ready with Orton and draft with Cassel. Pick your wish even if we trade up for rg3 which im not against pioli needs to be aggressive in free agency then to fill those needs we would have in the draft without the picks. With manning you keep the picks and improve so manning idea is first
by rickrock58 on Feb 4, 2012 3:21 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Orton buys us the same time, and more time at that, for a lot less
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
orton does
But we maybe could be dangerous but with manning we are top 5 in league
by rickrock58 on Feb 4, 2012 4:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
perhas
that assumes Manning even wants to come to KC
and that we can sign him and have enough cap space to sign the other FA’s we want/need
and that Manning’s healthy enough to play at a high level
it’s highly doubtful we sign Manning for even a low price of $15 Mil (plus a bonus which also counts to cap space) and have much or enough room to get Carr and Bowe much less Soliai and or Nicks
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
point tooken :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I believe the word you're looking for
is “tookeded”
by Ochophosphate on Feb 4, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Manning doesnt make us top 5 all he does is immediately take the shine off our other players
The moment we sign him Moeki,Bowe ,Breaston,and Baldwin are just serviceable and will all need to be upgraded .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 4, 2012 5:30 PM CST up reply actions
Nope. Chuck Testa.
It makes just as much sense.
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
good post dude, but the window for the chiefs to win super bowls is open right now, we have some great core players.the huge missing piece is at qb.
manning brings us a legit shot at a super bowl, even if the window is only 3 years for manning. Montana weapons on offense vs what manning would have with this chief offense aren’t even close, and look what montana did with the chiefs offense. Guys like manning don’y just fall of trees every year,u need to act now and get manning.
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Feb 4, 2012 3:23 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
For every Peyton Manning, there is a Ryan Leaf.
This premise alone makes me say no to trading up for any one player. You can point to all the stats, breakdowns, analysis, or whatever…but RGIII still hasn’t even seen a percentage of the playing time that even Tyler Palko has. So to proclaim him as our QBOTF is hardly a safe bet.
If drafting QBs were a sure science, then Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, David Carr, Matt Leinert, and a laundry list of others would never have been taken. You are investing in a complete unknown outcome. That’s called gambling, and it’s usually frowned upon. Look at some other teams that have gambled. Both Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco were drafted through trades. Both QBs are now on the hot seat. Of course, this means nothing when talking about RGIII, but it is something to consider if you are talking about trading up for a player.
I have no problem drafting a QB…if he’s there for our pick. This QB class got a lot weaker when Barkley and Jones decided to stay another year. And suddenly, the 2013 class is showing a ton of promise. Meanwhile, we have an opportunity to continue building our roster. The O-line, D-line, secondary, and TE spot could all use some help. So I don’t see how trading away opportunities to address those spots really helps us that much.
We have seen that we can win with Kyle Orton. It’s a good chance that Peyton Manning would also make us contenders. Even Cassel has shown that he CAN win. There’s also a promising Matt Flynn to consider. All of these options would allow us to keep building our roster and still have an opportunity to upgrade our QB play from last year…yes that includes Cassel who would have a much better arsenal around him this upcoming season.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Feb 4, 2012 3:27 PM CST reply actions 7 recs
Nimitz has received the first reports on the Battle at Midway]
Lt. Comm. Rochefort: Three Jap carriers sunk, Admiral. Isn’t that worth at least a “hot diggity damn”?
Admiral Nimitz: I’ll take it under advisement, Joe. There’s still one enemy carrier out there somewhere.
Lt. Comm. Rochefort: We’ve already achieved a great victory, Admiral. Shouldn’t you call the carriers back to Pearl and out of harm’s way?
Admiral Nimitz: Ah, that would be the smart play. Joe. Trouble problem is; I want that fourth carrier Quarterback!
For every Midway, there is a Market Garden.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
wreck'd for this alone, citadel ... well said!
If drafting QBs were a sure science, then Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, David Carr, Matt Leinert, and a laundry list of others would never have been taken. You are investing in a complete unknown outcome. That’s called gambling, and it’s usually frowned upon.
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
and on rivers
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
so what? you never draft a QB and always look to aging or mediocre QBs to lead this team?
if you want to be dominate for years, you have to draft. plain and simple. sure it’s a gamble, but if you never bet big, you’ll never win big.
Seriously, when have I ever been sarcastic?
tell that to the cashless people dejectedly walking out of the casinos in Vegas :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
a gamble is just that; a gamble
but you can’t expect to win a million dollars if you only bet $1.
Seriously, when have I ever been sarcastic?
Unless you have 1000000:1 odds
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 5:46 AM CST up reply actions
yep
the old lets wait til the fifth round and try get another Tom Brady
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Feb 5, 2012 6:22 AM CST up reply actions
Well then wouldn't we wait til the 6th?
Pioli coulda tried his best in the last draft to get the next Brady.. we did have the #199 pick afterall
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
For every Leaf and Russell.....
there are incompetent GMs and scouting departments that ignore all of the red flags associated with these players that give every indication they would be busts. If you could explain RG3’s red flags i’d love to hear them?
Not a pro style offense?
Does take hits?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions
Not everyone
Plus it depends on the system, and what routes the WRs run.
/Is an RGIII supporter
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
I was under the impression
Our WR’s ran routes like the Baylor Bears do.
run around downfield till Cassel throws it or gets sacked
Ha
Actually we didn’t run a whole lot of down field routes with Cassel or Palko, more with Orton but still didn’t take enough shots
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
ohhhhh
Those WR’s took some shots.
Cassel and Palko were great at running the WR’s right into a DB slam
That was Coach Anderson's idea of trickery.
When he did it as an NFL h-back, he was 243 pounds….so he could just fall forward for the first down.
Our most dependable wideout is fifty pounds lighter than that. Breaston canNOT fall forward for the first.
Therefore, Richie Anderson is looking for work. Hope he kept that insurance license current…
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
Obviously where he belongs
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
Many red flags aren't apparent until after the fact.
Carr, Leinart, and Blackledge show us that.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
What were Carr's red flags?
An OL that cant block for him?
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 5, 2012 10:51 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly my point.
It wasn’t until he got to the NFL that people realized he couldn’t handle NFL pressure. But coming out of college, he was considered an excellent choice for the Texans as a QBOTF.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
If he'd had anyone on his offensive line during his first three years, I don't think we'd be talking about pressure issues.
Poor bastard has been playing with NFL PTSD ever since he left Houston.
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
by go_saleaumua on Feb 7, 2012 7:32 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't
every draft choice a gamble? Yes. So, this isn’t about gambling, it’s about upping your bet to win more money. You know what is a sure-fire way to lose all your money when you gamble? Never change your bet. The smartest way to play is to occasionally bet big and then leave when you’re up. It’s obvious that you ‘could’ lose by betting big. But you absolutely ‘will’ lose by never changing your bet. The Chiefs need to pony up and take a chance—bet big on RGIII.
I believe in the Chiefs' Way. Someday, we will set the standard for how to be a championship team!
Wonder what would happen if a team never picked a player with their draft picks
Just sat there.. never turning in cards and letting the clock run out every time
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah except.. not picking at all
I know you could jump in and run your card up, however I mean.. they do not at all.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
wouldn't that COOL!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
By 2033 we would own the whole draft!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
Hah!
That would be hilarious. Every time it’s their turn, they just say…‘nah, we’re good.’
I believe in the Chiefs' Way. Someday, we will set the standard for how to be a championship team!
I've got
Tyler MF’ing Palko! Heard of him???
I believe in the Chiefs' Way. Someday, we will set the standard for how to be a championship team!
who?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Translated:
Calabaloo Falco
I believe in the Chiefs' Way. Someday, we will set the standard for how to be a championship team!
I wish I could say something classy and inspirational, but that just wouldn't be our style
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Who knows
maybe Palko will be a great QB someday. Then, he can say that it was the Chiefs who gave him his first real shot. Is that kinda sorta inspirational?
I believe in the Chiefs' Way. Someday, we will set the standard for how to be a championship team!
more like "lets start by saying a hail mary please" :)
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Feb 6, 2012 1:40 PM CST up reply actions
Betting out of frustration is another sure way to lose.
How much of the RGIII argument is predicated on the fact we haven’t drafted a 1st rd QB since Blackledge? A ton of it. Fans are tired of the current QB play, so they want something done differently. It’s certainly understandable, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the right move.
I’m already looking at what might be a stacked 2013 QB class. There are already several names on that list that would have been 1st rd picks this year.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
IF they come out
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Barkley, Jones, Wilson, Smith, and Manuel.
They’ll be seniors and it’s not hard to imagine any of them as 1st rd guys.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
Barkley yes
Landry.. not so much
Wilson still has a lot to prove
Not high on Manuel
Landry.. not so much
Wilson still has a lot to prove
Not high on ManuelSmith?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Wilson has proven one thing...
He’s got testicular fortitude. Dude gets wacked time in and time out, but he justs keeps gettin up.
by 12t on Feb 4, 2012 5:37 PM CST up reply actions
Well... I'll leave you to continue doing your ''research'' on that matter
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
Wilson will be the best of the bunch
He’s battle tested coming from the SEC. Barkley…just another USC QB that’ll be over hyped and under perform.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 10, 2012 7:03 AM CST up reply actions
But...
Next year, if we don’t pick in the early part of the 1st round, we’re going to be faced with the same dilemma—is it worth it to trade up for an unknown quantity? And, there are ALWAYS holes that need to be filled. Players leave and/or get hurt on a regular basis. Maybe Charles or DJ or Flowers or Hali suffer a career-ending injury (God forbid!!!)—we’d have to consider filling that with a 1st round pick. And, players in college get seriously hurt too. You can’t bank on there ever being that perfect player available at the exact moment when every other position on your roster is set. RGIII is, from what I’ve seen and what I’ve read, a better Cam Newton. Does that mean we should be buying 2013 Super Bowl tickets? No. But, we’d definitely have a solid foundation on which to build. I’d be extremely happy if we skipped it this year and took a promising QB next year. But, it just seems like the way the front office evaluates QB’s, moving up is never worth the risk involved. Eh, it’s just frustrating.
I believe in the Chiefs' Way. Someday, we will set the standard for how to be a championship team!
Or we have our IR players back, and win the weak West
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions
So if we 'win the weak West' next year that means....
The Chiefs have gone from a 2-14 team….to winning the divison 2 times in the next 4 years after being 2-14.
If it was the end 2008 and they told me Pioli was going to take over and the Chiefs were going to win the AFC West 2 times in the next 4 years…
…First, I would have said they where full of sh!t.
…Second, I would have been very happy thinking ‘what if he could do it’.
Yeah we could win the weak West..
We are not going anywhere in the playoffs with Cassel, nor winning a superbowl. However if just winning the West makes you happy, then congrats
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 5:47 AM CST up reply actions
Eli would like to talk to you about your pussy approach
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 4, 2012 5:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The guy who refused to play for the team that drafted him?
Good point. What if RGIII decides he doesn’t want to be a Chief?
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
Yes for every Peyton Manning, there is a Ryan Leaf but....
“Qui audet adipiscitur”
Unless you take a chance then you run a bigger risk of remaining mediocre, all because of being too cautious.
Jared Allen, Culinary Acadamy
by aPacificChief on Feb 5, 2012 4:30 AM CST up reply actions
Nice use of the Roman axium, but here's one from a little closer to home.
“He who dares, is stuck with Mark Sanchez and has to find another QB 3 years later.”
When you gamble big, you often lose big.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
Because of the unique competitive environment that is the NFL
Gambling is usually one of the few ways to get ahead of the other 31 teams.
Plus I would have never taken a chance on Sanchez. The odds were not good considering that he only had but a year of starting experience. I’d refer you to a piece I wrote on QB’s awhile back here on the Pride.
In short if you have a choice of two or three top teir QB’s and are not sure which you to choose from you go with measurables that cannot be replaced. Such as height, arm strength and most of all Starting Experience. With a close attention to the progress of the years they started.
"Qui audet adipiscitur!"
by aPacificChief on Feb 6, 2012 5:35 AM CST up reply actions
why do people just not get it
yes, when you gamble big, you MIGHT lose big. you could even agrue that you lose more often then you win. BUT if you never bet big, you’ll NEVER win big. it’s basic mathematics; teams with a very good to great QB win the SB at a much higher percentage than those with out a good QB. teams also find the good to great QBs in the first rnd at a much higher percentage than in later rounds or FA. don’t get me wrong, i share your fears of drafting a bust, but time has proven over and over again that if you do not have to stones to draft a franchise QB, you’ll almost never find one.
Seriously, when have I ever been sarcastic?
Pretty good write up...
I have to admit I rec’d it mainly on the last sentance…
It is therefore imperative that we move up in the draft and select Robert Griffin. Maybe the experiment fails, but we’re already failing by not trying.
Except none of us here risks anything in this scenario.
If it fails, we’ll all turn around 2-3 years from now and blame Pioli/Crennel/Hunt/whoever.
Much easier to place a bet when it isn’t your own money.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
If it fails that sucks because you can get set back... I understand..
But not trying to get an elite QB and failing to get do the dance for not having the most important position on the field taken care of.
If it fails, we’ll all turn around 2-3 years from now and blame Pioli/Crennel/Hunt/whoever.
CORRECT. And if we dont try and get an Elite QB the 2-3 years down the road when Pioli/crennel are fired and everyone wants Hunts head on a stake, most will look back and say we had a ton of talent and a nice window to win big in 2015 but couldnt do it because we didnt have a QB that could get us deep into the playoffs when we needed an arm that could pull us out of a tight situation, and now we have fired everyone and have to start over.
Oh but thank god we saved those couple pics in 2012...
Least we were able to draft some more players that were talented. I bought all there jerseys and they went to multiple pro bowls and everyone in KC loved em… I hope they get a chance to win a superbowl with that team they just signed with that has a good QB like waters did a few years back with Peyton and Tynes did with Eli, because they deserve after the carrer they had here in kc. poor guys.
Start with Orton and Al Saunders
Save a hell of a lot of money for top tier free agents
MIZ-DGB
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Feb 4, 2012 3:33 PM CST reply actions
I thought the same thing....then read the last paragraph and was like "wait a minute!" lol
How long should you try? Until.
- Jim Rohn
Eh I saw 'not optimal'
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
My personal choice would be Manning
If I had the choice. Trade up for RG3 or pay for Manning.
Manning is a proven commodity. He is a great QB. I keep hearing the Cowherd commercial that the Patriots are the Chiefs without Brady….and its true.
Great QB’s make teams great. Its been proven time and time again.
No one is calling RG3 great….because he is not. Not yet….and maybe never will be. Taking him would mean we give up atleast 2 first round picks and even more additional picks. Who knows how he even pans out,
Best bet for a SB now would be Manning…..pretty much an obvious decision.
How long should you try? Until.
- Jim Rohn
Slid post, Rec'd
I appreciate the idea behind this post and am a huge RG3 fan, but I do have some issues with it. Peyton Manning most likely won’t want to come to KC. But he would (if healthy) give us the best chance to compete for a Super Bowl. At any rate, I have a feeling Orton is our guy and I’ll take that over Matt Cassel if given the choice.
Dx3: Draft David DeCastro
Manning says he is right on track....
and so do HIS doctors…I choose to believe HIM and not everybody elses “speculation” or “hearsay”
If you go after Manning, all you lose is Money…If you go after RG3, you have to give up draft picks, which makes other positions on your team weaker…
These are multimillion dollar deals…no team goes into a deal with Manning unless he passes physicals, etc….
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
KC has sold its fanbase on "the future"
when do we worry about “RIGHT NOW”….after 40 years of waiting for a Championship, I dont care about3 years from now…I want to win RIGHT NOW….and Manning, if healthy,… gives us the best chance to do that,….its only money….and since Clark has been selling us short for the last few years with the salary cap he should have no problem SPENDING IT ON MANNING…if he REALLY wants to win a SB…
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Well that really sucks for you
I want to win RIGHT NOW
We ain’t winning anything for a while
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 4, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
sigh.......weak
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
The KC Chiefs have to have the worst record in all of Football for trying to aquire a quality QB thru the draft.
Some of our top QBs in KC History were mentioned in the Post: Dawson, Montana, Green and DeBerg. We can also mention Gannon and Grbac. None of these guys were drafted. The only High draft choice I can ever remember was Todd Blackledge and every knows that sad story. Except for Blackledge KC has not made the least bit of an effort to obtain a highly rated prospect for QB in anythigh close to a high round.
If there was a class held for teaching “How To Draft A QB” the Chiefs would not even get a failing grade. Am “INC” or a “DNP” (Did not Participate) would be about the best we could expect.
Maybe the experiment fails, but we’re already failing by not trying.
Except for Len Dawson (Who pretty much came with the franchise) the Chiefs have not had much success landing a Top Teir QB from FA either. Montana was a short term “Rent – a- Player” at best. He brought some short lived excitement but we all knew it was borrowed success at best to be paid for by sacrificing a serious effort at long term achievement.
We deserve more than a little borrowed glory. A year or two of possible winning seasons is not enough. Been there. Done that. Let’s make a real effort to establish a culture of domination that can only come from bringing in a young talent that we can grow to admire as he grows into his position and learns to succeed. If a little “Luck” is too much to ask for then let’s have a little RGlll.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
by CatChief on Feb 4, 2012 4:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
"We're already failing by not trying"...
Truer words were never spoken…Nicely supported & researched article…Easy to digest & see your logic…Just note that there is no way in Hell 1 Arrowhead supports , endorses or even recognizes logic when it comes to drafting QB’sOTF … A fellow poster friend of mine likes to say " No Balls, No Blue Chips"…More words of wisdom…Every year (Almost) we’re close…Good Offense / porous Defense…Stout Defense/ Anemic Offense…The one Constant question Chiefs fans get asked ?…Who’s your QB again ?…
I disagree that Manning would be a bad move (why can't we groom a successor behind him, again?), but I would be fully in favor of grabbing RGIII.
30 years is plenty of time to wait after your last first round quarterback busted.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Yep, I'd be good with either scenario.
But I too don’t get why Manning would stop us from grooming his successor (as well as building the rest of the team).
because Manning has never shown any signs
of wanting to help groom a backup, ie he takes all the first string snaps in practice, never giving a backup time to develop and thats why the Colts were in the situation they were in this year when he got hurt
Manning doesn't have to develop the backup, he just needs to play while we develop his backup.
You know who else wanted to part of mentoring his replacement? Brett Favre. Which was fine, because the Packers developed Rodgers without him.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
by MtHammer on Feb 4, 2012 4:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This
Why not compete WHILE we develop our QBOTF?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Edit: That should read, "You know who else wanted NO part," not, "to part."
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
I didn't mean that.
I just meant there’s nothing to stop us from drafting and coaching our QBOTF if Manning is signed.
Would be a ton of Money in the QB position
Manning – 10+ Million
Cassel – 5.5 Million
Drafted QB – 5+ Million
Stanzi – 1 Million
To the rams...
with say, Gilberry…as much as I like him…I’m in with that.
by 12t on Feb 4, 2012 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
believe you'r right....
but that’s not to say we’re not going to get him signed. Actually, it may well be. ok, give them Dorsey.
by 12t on Feb 4, 2012 5:55 PM CST up reply actions
It would actually still be less than the Colts paid Manning last year.
But, more importantly, we can cut Cassel this year with practically no cap hit. Pioli hella frontloaded his contract. With Manning and a rookie QBOTF, there’d be no reason to keep Cassel around.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
That's being awfully harsh towards RGIII and/or Stanzi.
Palko was the worst starting QB in the league last year. What on earth makes you think that RGIII or even a Tannehill or Foles would be closer to Palko than, say, a rookie like T.J. Yates or Christian Ponder (or ideally Cam Newton or Andy Dalton)?
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Why would we assume that Stanzi would be a viable backup plan?
and RGIII would probably get to sit the entire season like Stanzi did.
and should IMO anyway
Let me put it this way, there's no way Stanzi is a less viable backup than Palko. He's almost guaranteed to be better.
But if we took a 1st round QB, he’d probably be 2nd string ahead of Stanzi. 1st round quarterbacks that don’t start immediately are almost always the backup. Ponder, Locker, and Gabbert were all 2nd string at the beginning of the year. It’s different when you have a 5th rounder like Stanzi or Yates, but 1st rounders are usually viable backups. Locker and Ponder, subsequently, played pretty well when they were forced into action, by the way.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
I heard the Chiefs are talking to Brian Daboll about the OC position
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Nonsense.
I’ll believe it when I read it on AP.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
That was a Colt thing, he would be in KC, he love Indy and he is the one and only!
He said it how much he loves Indy, and really i don,t thing it would be a problem of him grooming his replacement unless he planned on playing as long as farve.
I would actually love to see him show up little brother whom incidently thinks he is better than his brother, The manning show down kansas city vs. new york, and peyton lights their secondary up for 500yd and 5tds, jamaal runs for a buck 50, and eli finds himself getting up off the ground about 25 times, of the things he has said about being elite.
Peyton would show him what elite means, San fran should have beaten them if not for that turnover. Eli has the biggest head in the league, and now that they have won the second superbowl he really things he.s better than Peyton and Brady and brees, also Rodgers, kurt Warners said he had a ways to go before he is in the same league as the great ones, and really not hof material stock, let him go somewhere the defense is not as good as the giants and then we would see if he still thought he was elite!
Eli IS elite.
I’d rather have him right now than Peyton…then again, he has 8 years left probably, while peyton has 3-4. And Peyton is available, while Eli is not.
Eli is a great quarterback. He’s been better than Brady twice (actually 3 times, but twice when it counted most). He has more Superbowl wins than a lot of guys…Favre, Peyton, tied with Elway, Marino, Young, etc. He WILL be in the HOF based solely on his 2 SB wins.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 9, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
It's doable, if...
you’re willing to part with Carr. Here’s how.
1. Sign Bowe, pay the man. It’s been decades since we’ve had a star WR.
2. Tag Carr at a compensation of a first and third round pick. Let’s see if Detroit is interested.
3. If someone goes for Carr, trade our own first round picks in ‘12 and ’13, plus our ’12 second round pick, and maybe a ’12 third round pick to St. Louis for their ’12 1st round pick.
4. We’d still have the ‘12 first round pick we got for Carr to get a RT with. Of course, we’d have to live with Arenas, Brown, or Daniels opposite Flowers. Go for it.
by Special K on Feb 4, 2012 4:44 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
well, I dunno, but...
We made a similar deal with the Vikes about 4 years ago…picks were for that year.
let's see...
I think we traded some guy named Gerald Allen, or Jarret Allen, or something like that…
I heard he had a pretty good season in Minnesota this past year
Anyways i like that idea. I’m comfortable handing starting duties over to Travis Daniels. He looks like he could have some game. Keeps Javy as NB/PR. Jalil can come in on nickel and dime sets and continue to play ST
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Feb 5, 2012 4:06 AM CST up reply actions
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 9, 2012 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA!
Revis AND Nnamdi. YUP! Carr’ll kick Revis’s and Muga’s ass any ol’ day, and twice on Sundays! Beautiful GSD there. But I think even he disagrees with ya on this one. ;=)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Feb 9, 2012 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
I would use the word elite when describing Palko
“Palko is in no way elite. Good God, he’s about as awful as they come.”
2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl
Something else to think about...
If RG3 “busts”, he is athletic enough to keep around as a gadget guy, right? All is not totally lost if he doesn’t turn out to be a solid pro QB.
Twitter: @RaiderHater86
Great post...
As Marty showed us, its always easy to play it safe and just punt. Sure we could punt on getting a top of the draft QB until next year but what is gained? Its time for Pioli to show us he has a pair and go for it on 4th and short. We’re not making a move like ATL did last year or like the Jets did for Sanchez. We’re moving up 10 picks. Go for it.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
I don't see us being able to outbid CLE if they're interested
But I want to see SOMETHING big this year.
Sign a big time NT, sign Manning, make a big move up for a QB in the draft… Whatever. SOMETHING that show some initiative that isn’t just a “safe” move.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
30 million should allow at least one extravagant move considering how close we are
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Feb 4, 2012 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
Acquiring a good quarterback would achieve that.
Lots of solid guys out there…Painter, T-Jax, Caleb Hanie….
I think we should mortgage the farm and send a third to Carolina for Jimmy Clausen. Add that depth, competition at every spot, talk about the players who are here, getting a little bit better every day. That’s my KC motto.
/burping koolaid
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
How many other teams are saying the same thing?
That’s what makes it optional. On a brighter note, Al Davis is gone, so that should help.
Thanks for the compliments
and reasonable dissension.
I’d like to point out that if we sign Manning, I could easily see us winning a superbowl. That said, It would have the stain of feeling like PEYTON MANNING won another superbowl, not the chiefs. I’d have a hard time accepting it as legitimate. Maybe that’s a stupid psychological hurdle on my part.
On Montana: I point him out not only to state that it takes a certain caliber of QB to make it, but also that renting someone else’s HOFer for a couple years creates too short of a window at too high an expense. Someone said earlier that our window is open now, and agree. I just happen to think its still opening.
Haha rec'd for the honesty with youtself
Maybe that’s a stupid psychological hurdle on my part.
I doubt when the Celtics finally won again, the fans minded that it was with KG and Ray Allen…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Amen
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Heard that cleveland
Has recently stated they would not trade up 2 spots to grab rg3. With Peyton Manning(wash)and Matt Flynn(mia)still out there,i feel we have a hell of a chance to grab rg3.. No Cassel 2012! Who cares who the president is lol.
GIVE JAMAAL THE DAMN BALL!!!!!
by chief913-816 on Feb 4, 2012 6:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I heard that Pioli said he would not draft a Safety with the Chiefs 5th pick of the draft ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
So, you're saying we're picking a nickelback.
Love. It.
Vermin Supreme in 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rji74B453JY
In fairness.
Berry is actually a DW, not S.
by Tarkus on Feb 4, 2012 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
My issue with this post is there are 1-5 “franchise quarterbacks” every draft. Every year there is a next big thing.
Whether Orton or Peyton, I like having a guy that can play 3-5 years gives us ample opportunity to find our 1st round guy and get him on the field when he’s ready. Getting RG3 more than likely means giving up 2013’s first. He’s not worth two top tier prospects and whatever else StL gets for the pick. I would rather trade down this year and have extra picks to give up to move up in 2013 or 2014. If we’re going to trade picks, we need to first get a surplus. Just a thought.
@relaxingpoo
I'm done waiting
IMHO RG3 has all the trappings of a top tier QB. pull the trigger. It’s as though the ghost of Todd Blackledge has scared this franchise away from having a 1st round qb on their board for eternity.
by SillyHatDay on Feb 4, 2012 6:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
This is the exact attitude that gets teams in trouble.
Impatience. For us we tried Cassel and I think most can agree, including apparently our GM, that it’s time to do something difference. But there’s no point in being impatient and taking unnecesary risks and mortgaging the future to try to quick fix the problem.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
they tried a new way with Mackovic who somehow managed the playoffs
Marty took us to the playoffs for over half of the decade of the 90’s … that doesn’t count? child, please, count the blessings … for that matter, be thankful we still have a team in KC
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The Rams can not find a trade partner
Cleveland is not interested in moving up, Minnesota is not going to take a QB so Cleveland can sit and wait for RGIII if they even want him. We could deal with “The Walrus” if we want too
Signing Manning is less of a risk of setting back the franchise then drafting RGIII
Griffin costs us draft picks now and in the future. The only thing drafting Manning does is cost us a bit of money and in all honestly it’s probably money that we would be under the cap anyway. Manning is a proven commodity even at 80%. RGIII has proven nothing and is for all intents and purposes the definition of a boom or bust player(probably heavier a touch heavier on the bust side.
You bring in Manning pay him a three year contract with 20M guaranteed, all of which is money that most likely won’t be used if Manning isn’t brought in, and then if you want to spend draft picks on a QB you take one of the prototypical guys coming out next year for which there will be 3-4 of the in the first round. If Manning can’t get back to health you have Cassel in the wings and we’re no worse off then we would’ve been not taking Manning as well you have your 1st rounder waiting for you next year to start if need be. If Manning is healthy you deal Cassel mid-season to a QB desperate team in a playoff run and you stash your first rounder behind Manning for a season or so a la Aaron Rodgers.
I get the frustration of not wanting to settle for a bad QB situation but really I don’t get where people are coming up with all this “risk” in signing Manning when there is no risk. If you’re worried about money, it will be there and even more of it will be there next year when Dorsey comes off the books and it’s not like we’re going to stop drafting or we’ve traded away multiple picks like the Raiders(or like you would to get RGIII in a bidding war) to forfeit the future of the young talent on the team either.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Feb 4, 2012 7:30 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
" Robert Griffin would be the high prize in any other draft. "
I’m not so sure if he would go before any of the #1 picks or first QBs off the board of the last four drafts. You could also make a strong case that if there weren’t an abnormaly high amount of QB needy teams this year that he may not even be talked about as the #2 pick in this draft.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Matt Ryan coming out wasn't in his league
RG3 would be the 1st QB taken in that draft, and probably last draft as he’s more polished coming out then Cam was. He would have been #2 to Stafford, though.
Too much to read.
But here is my take and it will not take that long to read!!! DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES GET RGIII !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice post
I don’t care if we get manning or rg3, we need a qb. Get one.
RG3 for K C
I agree 100% we need RG3 I watched some of his games last year and liked what I saw. We really do need someone thats not at the end of a career but the begining and I believe he can do the job for us.
Congrats on the Front page love Silly....and a nice read by the way!
But if Pioli thinks that RG3 is the QBotF then I’m all in!
Plus I wouldn’t discount making a move on Peyton either, considering the world might end by Dec. 2012. Then we wouldn’t need to worry too much on the future draft picks too much.
Just a lot of ammo and Mountain House.
Jared Allen, Culinary Acadamy
just one last good year of football?
i guess by then we’ll know if we had won the division or not
Seriously, when have I ever been sarcastic?
I'm not sure i'd see RG3 get his jersey from the commish
will probably faint in the heat of the moment.
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Feb 5, 2012 4:08 AM CST up reply actions
great pic hope It's a glimpse into next season
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 5, 2012 9:27 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
My preference would be to build a team which can compete year in and year out.
To me that would be to keep the draft picks and continue to fill the remaining holes; RT, ISLB, NT, a complementary RB, a second TE, and safety depth. Then, hopefully we can obtain the QBOTF.
My reasoning is based on 42 years of observation. This is an opinion, therefore, I will not support this argument with research, only those many years of frustration when my team was out of the playoff picture in the first half of the season.
I do not remember a year between 1971 and 1991 when the scenario was not the same. Had and offense and no defense. Had a defense and no offense. Mainly defense and no offense. Some years even that was defined by good D line and no D backfield, or good D backfield and no D line, etc, ad nauseum.
In those first few years of King Carl’s reign we actually had both. Then from 1995 to 2007, the same old thing. D no O, O no D. Mainly O in the Vermeil years. Lest we forget the 2004 playoff game with no punts.
We can say what we will about Pioli an the “Patriot way”. Which do you prefer, on hit wonders and then wondering who will play cornerback or knowing every year that your team is competitive?
I guess it boils down to this, do we want to risk slipping back into that historical pattern, or build a foundation to compete year in and year out like the Steelers, Ravens, and yes, dare I say, the Patriots.
My vote is for the latter. Draft a RT, ISLB, NT, a complementary RB, a second TE, and safety depth. Pick up a free agent QB and be in a position to supplement and replace the roster to be in a position of “overall” strength for years to come.
by Nankerpang on Feb 5, 2012 11:54 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
At the same time we could fil those holes in the 2nd and later rounds
Having 1st round pick(s) to play with along with possibly a tagged player
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
wow
you totally dismantled those arguments!
NOT!
1. You operate under the premise that all money of every contract counts toward the salary cap. Not so. Thus, you just can’t flat out say signing Manning would destroy our cap. In actuality, if anything destroys it, it would be re-signing both Bowe and Carr for what they probably have over-valued their worth at.
2. You operate under the premise that signing Manning would not mean upgrading the OLine. This premise, as do others, as we will see, requires Pioli to be a complete fool….Yeah, sure…he’s going to go out and sign a 36 year old HOF QB coming off an injury and not fix RT (at the least) and maybe LG/C….
3. You operate under the premise that Manning isn’t healthy. Eh. Neither side can make a great argument either way.
4. You operate under the premise that Manning has the pocket awareness of Cassel/Palko. Notice how many sacks Orton had when he took over? Yeah, exactly…and Manning has much better pocket awareness than any QB that suited up for KC this year.
5. You neglect to consider the possibility of Manning’s heightened performance because of having an all-pro running back. Yep, I’m operating under the premise that Charles comes back looking like Charles.
6. You fail to consider the highly likely possibility that Charles greatly takes off the pressure from Manning getting blitzed. Unless it is 3rd and long—and I highly doubt there would be many with that offense—teams will be too afraid to blitz. Seriously. Charles in the backfield, Manning throwing…Defenses=screwed.
7. You operate on the premise that the Chiefs should only think long-term, neglecting the window in front of us w/ Manning.
8. You operate on the premise that Pioli, again, is a fool….and would not continue to draft/develop a QB to take over after Manning. Beating a dead horse….Rodgers behind Favre, Brady behind Bledsoe, etc etc etc….
9. You operate on the premise that a change of HC, OC, etc won’t improve the offense, and especially the QB position.
10. You operate on the premise that Stanzi won’t do anything, despite having no evidence to the contrary. While….
11. Operating on the premise that RG III will do something, despite having no evidence supporting that claim.
12. You operate on the premise that mortgaging the short-term future will pay off in the long-term.
13. You operate on the premise that winning a Super Bowl should not be the goal in the next couple of years….
I could go on and on and on.
This team does not have many major holes to fill. Getting a future HOF QB could put this team over the top. Winning a SB ASAP should be one of the main goals of the organization, regardless of what happens in the next 5 or 10 years. Signing Manning and developing a QBOTF are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Both can be done. And, if Manning is willing SHOULD BE DONE. Getting Manning does not cost a boatload of draft picks. signing Manning allows us to spend draft picks on future starters and depth, not as currency to move up and draft the ‘sexy pick’ of 2011. There will be sexy picks in 2012…and 2013…and 2014. Not like this is the only season to draft a QBOTF.
Cassel is a great backup. If Manning got hurt, the team would be okay with Cassel. Likewise, gulp as a leader on the Cassel-hate bandwagon, I’m going to say what needs to be said: Any rookie QB coming in this year probably won’t have a much better season, if it is even as good, as Cassel would have.
In short, there is no reason to try not to win in the short-term and the long-term. Signing Manning and developing a QB (even an existing one cough Stanzi cough) is a good, smart mixture of short-term and long-term planning for success.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
1. Cause so far Pioli has really over paid to keep our own players?
2. Oline will get help
3. Bad injury, nerve damage, not full arm strength.. pretty easy to be cautious
4. It’s not only pocket awareness, we have been letting free rushers through and not even Manning can avoid those other than grounding the ball
5. There is the other side of the coin. Some think Manning will be 100%, some don’t. Some think Charles will be 100%, some don’t.
6. What if Manning takes 1 hit and is done? What if Charles is not the same?
7. Well yeah we need a long term contender, not a flash in the pan
8. Manning has not shown he is willing to coach up a QB under him. See Painter
9. Cassel is Cassel, sooner or later teams will figure out the offense, Cassel can not beat a team by himself. Changing OC’s does not change the talent at QB
10. 5th round pick who couldn’t beat out Palko
11. Much more talent
12. Manning lovers are doing the same thing
13. It is a goal
Good thing this is the 2012 draft, not the 2011 which we didn’t move up for the ‘sexy pick’. You say yourself that we do not have a ton of major holes, why not spend the picks to fix the HUGEEEEEEEE hole at QB then?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 5, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions
1. Missing the point. The point was signing .manning wouldn’t necessarily mean taking up a lot of CAP SPACE.
2. I agree. He seems not to.
3. Understood. But nobody really knows one way or another.
4. See both of our points #2, see also my original points 6 and 9.
5. Okay….
6. Then we still have the good backup, Matt Cassel. What if RG III gets another concussion, then another, then another? Cassel in 2012, as much as I dislike him would probably fair comparably to RG III’s rookie season anyway.
7. We need both. People are being somewhat hypocritical. They’ll say we need to draft a QBOTF now because we need to stop looking to the future to get him….AKA so we can win sooner than later….yet…they’re against signing possibly the best option to win a SB in the next couple years? oKAY???
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 5, 2012 9:47 PM CST up reply actions
what if cassel gets 20 concussions
you can’t say or think someone will get hit in the head or hurt you hope for the best if it does happen cassel better be ready to back up RG3!
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 5, 2012 9:54 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
Once you get a concussion, you're more susceptible to getting them....
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 5, 2012 10:19 PM CST up reply actions
1. Would take up more than RGIII
2. Pioli has said Oline is a priority this off season
6. Not sure Cassel would be around with his contract a long with Mannings. Oh what if game.. What if Manning gets hit his first snap and is done? What if Cassel breaks his hip trying to run for a first down? What if.. yayyy those were fun
7. Looking to the future statement stems from people saying ‘oh we will get Manning and then draft our guy next year, year after, etc’ or ‘dont go QB in the first this year, but next year!’…after we win the West with our IR players back and are picking in the 20s
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 5:53 AM CST up reply actions
1. So?
2. And?
6. Cassel’s contract is good enough to be a backup. You’re the one that inadvertently brought out the what if game with your Manning injury speculation and conjecture.
7. So? this team is one draft away from having the majority of it’s holes filled. Unless Pioli goes crazy in free agency this year, we need those picks.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 8:48 AM CST up reply actions
1. You pointed out $, so I countered, sorry it doesn't fit your side
2. Meaning we will get Oline help? Didn’t know RTs or LGs can only be found at 11 or 12th overall…
6. That depends on how big Mannings contract is, and how much is left for Bowe/Carr/etc
7. There will always be holes, the biggest hole on the team is the most important position. Have to get that figured out asap
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
1. it doesn’t hurt my side, either. KC has plenty of cap space.
2. Yeah, I know. I’ve been saying the OLine will get help. the original argument from the author of the post argued that Manning wouldn’t have a line to block for him. And I never said RTs or LGs can only be found at 11 or 12…and honestly, I wouldn’t want to get a RT at 11/12….normally, I probably wouldn’t be thrilled for a LG there, either. And if Pioli signs Nicks or Grubbs it becomes a moot point anyway.
6. True, but again, a big contract does not automatically = a big cap hit.
7. I agree. Hence, the Manning talk. I favor quantity of holes filled through the draft, but as it isn’t up to me, I’m not really going to be disappointed with the QB position unless Cassel is the starter again.
Less than a year removed from the draft, it would be easier to positively view a trade up. For instance, I suppose I would trade Baldwin and Hudson for RG III. I wouldn’t trade Berry, however….TJax, Baldwin and Hudson? Probably.
It is not that I hate the idea of trading up for RG III. I don’t like it, per se. But I don’t hate it. I do like the idea of filling most of the holes with draft picks. And injury or no injury, Peyton Manning is Peyton Manning.
As for Stanzi, I still believe he’ll be successful as an NFL QB. that doesn’t mean i’m not leery….just cautiously optimistic….basically the same way I am with RG III, and the same way I’d be with a Manning signing. I want a new STARTING QB. We have that in common. Philosophically, I just prefer a different means. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be excited it Pioli traded up.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 8, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions
8. Manning isn’t the qb coach. The qb coach staff is. Your premise is that unless a QB is taking a guy under his wing, that young QB can’t grow? Work ethic rubs off.
9. True. Cassel’s weaknesses won’t just disappear. But this team has had horrible play calling. Even the casual fan knew what plays would be called. I’m assuming Daboll won’t implement a run, pass, draw, punt offensive system. Also, I’m somewhat inspired of what that coaching stuff can do after seeing Alex Smith.
10. With our former HC that got fired? Pretty sure he beat him out when Romeo came in. You’re way smarter than that stupid homer retread argument….
11. Talent doesn’t always translate. Guys with talent tend to slack off. How many Heismann winning QBs have ever amounted to anything in the NFL?
12. No, they are fixated on the short-term. In this team’s case, signing Manning does not hurt the long-term. Trading eleventy billion picks to draft a talented college player who is this year’s Viagra could hurt both the short and long-term goals. If Manning crapped out, there’s always next year to draft next year’s stud. Future HOF QBs ARE WORTH THE RISK!
13. There are stupid owners and GMs willing to go Josh McDaniels stupid to trade up to #2.
10.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 5, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions
8. A lot of people use the point that Manning will coach up a young QB and we will be set
He has not shown the ability to do that, why always look to late round QBs? They are late round picks for a reason.
9. Except under Haley/Weis/Muir.. its always been crap with Cassel. Yes when Charles goes off.. defenses have to key on him.. but if they take him out? Screwed is the correct answer.
10. Righhhhhht cause somehow the ’’logical’’ argument is that Haley just didn’t like Stanzi, instead of ya know Stanzi not being able to BEAT out Palko. RAC came in with Orton and the end of the season, of course he would play Stanzi at that point if it came down to it. Amazing that the homerism flows with some right to Stanzi who can do no wrong and is a HOF QB when he gets the chance.. and loves puppies.. and sky dives.. Stanzi is not the answer.
11. How many QBs at all have amounted to anything? How many old injured QBs go on to different teams and lead them to a Championship at least once?
12. eleventy billion picks.. might want to redo the math
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 5:59 AM CST up reply actions
8. i guess it depends on your definition of coach up. you can be a passive coach. if the young qb is hungry and a student of the game, they’re going to do their best to emulate the successful. Why was Tom Brady a late round QB? Just curious….
9. Cassel has had success. even i can’t deny that, and i extremely dislike him. Daboll’s success with Bush in Miami + McCluster starting to turn it on toward the end of this season could very well mean we have more than one rushing weapon. Besides, are you operating under the premise Pioli won’t go out and get some insurance for Charles?
10. The logical argument is that Haley’s regime had many flawed evaluations and weaknesses….HE GOT FIRED! Remember Gaither? Hmm. There is nothing anywhere that says Stanzi could not beat out Palko. You have no basis for making any negative claims on Stanzi because you haven’t seen him play, at all. So you can cry this illogical crap if you want, but it’s just your damn opinion…one, I will agree on most of the times, but not when it is illogical.
11. Oh, I see. didn’t want to go there with young, unproven, and talented. How many QBs at all have amounted to anything? Not many, but Manning is such a QB.
12. No, the math is right when Snyder is involved.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 8:41 AM CST up reply actions
8. Cause he didn't have a great career, didn't have an NFL body, didn't have a great arm
9. Yes he has been able to take what the defense gives him WHEN they are focusing on Charles.. he has not been able to do squat without Charles. Well I would hope that Pioli would be going after later round RBs.. why that was brought up I don’t know since this is about QBs
10. Oh wow Gaither.. a guy who has had questionable work ethic and attitude his whole career, a bad back injury, and trying to transition to a ZBS RT.. yeah great argument there, sure got me. It is more logical than ‘herp derp Haley no likey Stanzi’
11. Manning WAS such a QB
12. eh
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 8:50 AM CST up reply actions
8. Well the NFL was surely correct there 198 times, huh?
9. I agree, but so what? He is still an adequate QB, who should be a great backup. But it isn’t necessarily true that only Charles will help. It was brought up because you seem to think Charles is the only hope for Cassel, and seem to want to make the argument that Charles is basically done, or will be drastically different.
10. It sure is. A guy with questionable work ethic learning enough of a playbook to start a few days later at LT. c’mon, you’re starting to get ridiculous here. Of course it is a good example.
11. yes, and COULD STILL BE. You cannot logically deny that. Manning COULD still be a great QB. Stanzi COULD end up being a great QB. You automatically assume RG III WILL BE while discounting the others. Funny how that works. You enjoy satirical homerism, but should look in the mirror.
-Manning has proven himself. The injury was major, could still be. But if he is cleared to play, and he is cleared by the Chiefs medical staff (assuming they want him), then it is no more risk than going with any other QB. Especially when the reward could be high. This is medium risk (if the medical checks out), high reward.
-Trading the house for RG III is high risk, high reward. there is almost never a sure thing drafting in the NFL at the QB position.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
8. Cause he had a year to sit, and get coached up
Like he would have worked out on any other team without Bill
9. Charles(read beastly running game) is the only hope for Cassel, we have no idea how Charles will be when he comes back
10. It was a different scheme at the position he has been productive at. Not a different system and different position, nice try
11. COULD BE yes.. am I willing to put my hope on that? Nope. Talent wise RGIII>>>>>>>>>>>>Stanzi, not hard to put money on which one should be better
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
it all falls on should
there have been many first round qb busts that SHOULD have been better….
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
So limit the prospects because guys busted in the past?
Well that means no FA, no draft picks, no resigning guys..
Guys have gotten paid in FA then slacked off and not produced
Many draft picks have busted
Many guys have been resigned and sucked it up
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
i would expect guys who were resigned to suck it up
in fact, I totally expect Palko to be resigned.
On the opposite spectrum, I hope Bowe and Carr are RE-SIGNED
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
Good thing this is the 2012 draft, not the 2011 which we didn’t move up for the ‘sexy pick’. You say yourself that we do not have a ton of major holes, why not spend the picks to fix the HUGEEEEEEEE hole at QB then?
Because it isn’t every year you have the ability to sign a known quantity (talent/skill-wise) who has a career of playing at a HOF level. That’s why. Also, we need more depth and competition….and people seem to think this is Madden. KC wouldnt be the only team negotiating with STL. You think Pioli will outbid the crazy bastard that is Daniel Snyder? Exactly.
But as I’ve said many times, if Pioli did do it, I would embrace it and be excited. Manning, Orton, RG III…even Stanzi. As long as the season starting QB isn’t named Cassel, Palko, Russell, Leaf…..
But to me, if Manning checks out medically and physically—which if Pioli signed him, he would have to—he makes more since in the short-term.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 5, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
So we won't be the only one to call up the Rams for their pick
But the only team with the chance to get Manning? Or Orton? Nope.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 6:00 AM CST up reply actions
never said that.
however, there’s a very limited number of teams who have need + the talent + weak division + $. It isn’t Madden. Just because teams want him, doesn’t mean he wants them. And this could include the Chiefs, but because they should have everything he wants…..
How many teams that want Manning are on his list?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
You didn't say it, thats why I did
You can not say.. Oh look we will not be the only team trying to get x, but only use it for an argument against one side.
Who says the Chiefs are even on his list? Who says he doesn’t want to go to an NFC team instead of playing Indy?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 8:46 AM CST up reply actions
nobody does. it's a rationalization.
the only NFC team worth going to is San Fran.
And I’m making a sound assumption that he’d rather face his brother in a SB than an NFC championship game. I’m also making a sound assumption that family matters will play a part (aka location). I can’t see Archie being happy having to fly back and forth from NY to SF.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
Seattle needs a QB in their weak West as well
Cards could use one, etc there are plenty of teams out there that could upgrade their QB with Manning.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
really? the NFC West is weak?
why I could have sworn the 49ers went like 13-3 and made it to the NFC Championship game. hmm.
sure there are many teams out there that could upgrade their QB with Manning. but that’s where reciprocation comes in.
Many of those teams are not playoff caliber, or if they are, they either have a QB or are in a division or conference (NFC) with a tough teams and QBs.
Rodgers, Brees, Eli, Stafford, Romo, Ryan etc vs. Brady, Rivers, Roethlisburger etc.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah cause we have constantly been a play off team?
Oh wait..
Yeah the West is weak, 49ers made a run just like we did. Good running game, great defense, minimal chances with the QB putting the ball at risk, doesn’t make the division good.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
it makes them easily the best team in that division.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
Which can still use a better QB
Case can be made that the 49ers are in much better shape than we are
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
i'd love to hear that case.
they might have a better OLine? And better DLine? but we have better receivers and DBs….and collectively, our LB corp is better.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
and we have better special teams
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Look how the teams ended up this season. Case solved.
Their LBs are not that bad if you include Smith, their Dline/Oline are better. We do have better WRs, they have better TEs, we have better DBs
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
i'm not arguing any of those points.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 8, 2012 6:27 PM CST up reply actions
like the post
don’t agree I think RG3 is the missing part to us getting to a playoff game and maybe further
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 5, 2012 4:40 PM CST via Android app reply actions
There's something about RG3 that make me think Akili Smith
I agree that KC needs to draft and develop a QB. I’m just not a big fan of trading away the mortgage to get an unproven guy. And I’ve seen too many overhyped first round QBs go down in flames.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx
Really?
RG3 compared to akili smith? I don’t see it. RG3 completely carried Baylor the last 2 seasons, they would have been 3 or 4 win team this past season without him. He is the type of player that makes everyone around him better, you can put a game on his shoulders. He’s a proven leader who can handle pressure and has the ability to make plays that defenses can’t game plan for, to me he is the best offensive weapon in the draft.
So when it comes to comparisons I don’t think it’s Akili Smith.
I see a playmaker along the lines of Michael Vick, Reggie Bush, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, and Andre Johnson. He’s a superstar, and not only that he handles the ball every snap which makes him even scarier to defenses.
I see the true comparison being more along the lines of Cam Newton, it’s all about what he does with the ball in his hands. The Chief fans deserve this type of player, because quite frankly we have never had one. With all due respect to JC and Bowe.
I actually don't care if we draft RG III, but after conversations, I'm starting to hope we don't just to spite some of the illogical boners for an unproven college qb
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
So you don't want Stanzi to ever see the field then either
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Stanzi is an unproven NFL QB, not an unproven NCAA QB.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 8:59 AM CST up reply actions
No he is still an unproven college QB until he actually gets game action
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 9:07 AM CST up reply actions
no. he is in the nfl with an nfl contract on an nfl team. he is an nfl qb
if he was an unproven college qb without game action, one wouldn’t be able to say he is worse than Tyler Palko. We’d have to see him get game action to determine that.
hmm…
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 6, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Palko saw the field, sucked horribly, yet Stanzi was not put in the game
So yeah, point proven that Stanzi could not beat out Palko at any time during the season or when Cassel went down.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 6, 2012 9:49 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah see?
Some wanna believe that twisted around BS why their man crush didn’t play! Sorry.. I’m not going to believe some story how ‘Haley no likey Stanzi’
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 5:53 AM CST up reply actions
to those with a brain it does
to those who want to bend RG III over and show him ‘some love,’ it means Stanzi sucks.
because, you know, they’ve seen him play and know he sucks.
you know, because 5th rd rookie QBs are failures if they don’t make the field their first year….because that is obviously expected.
And there is noooo way said qbs don’t make the field when there is a crappier qb on the team starting ahead of them….even if there is no intention of playing said rookie qb all year regardless of performance.
Also, there is no such person as T.J. Yates who had so little talent that he got drafted after Stanzi and couldn’t beat out a pretty worthless Matt Leinert, only to play when the starting QB and backup got injured.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Neither have seen a single actual snap in the NFL
I’d call them about even as far as “proven” goes.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
never said he was 'proven.' but he is an NFL QB. Something RG III isn't.
The staff has had a whole season to see Stanzi read an NFL defense. They’ve had 3 years of college tape + one NFL season to see Stanzi under center…and under center reading the defense.
In that regard, Stanzi has proven some very valuable things at the NCAA and NFL level (even if in preseason games and practice) that RG III has yet to do.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
What has he proven? That with his best on display he is nothing more than a 5th round pick
That the coaches did not feel good enough about to put him instead of Palko?
Wow.. glad you made the case against Stanzi
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
and your recycled garbage comments are making a case against Stanzi? It's all conjecture bullshit.
redudant conjecture.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
he has shown something RG III hasn't shown.
I don’t know how else to say it, because if you’re too illiterate to read it the first time, it’s pointless to try again. Maybe if I was John Madden, I could pull out my scadoodle and draw you a picture.
RG III: No experience operating in a traditional offense. No experience taking the ball under center. No experience reading a defense (at all, frankly), and especially under center. Absolutely no experience at all in the NFL (training camp, preseason, practice, etc.
Stanzi has proven he can play in a pro offense. he has proven he can read a defense while taking the ball under center.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 7, 2012 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
Remember
A lot of experts said the same thing about Newton and Tebow. RG3 was a more efficient passer then Stanzi in college. Better completion percentage, better TD to INT ratio. I feel everyone makes a bigger deal out of a QB learning to take snaps from center rather then shotgun. Sure it’s a learning curve getting use to 3, 5, and 7 step drops, but anyone can learn especially a great athlete like RG3.
okay? Newton and Tebow aren't exactly your best cases.
anyway, it is more about reading the defense from under center.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 8, 2012 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe not
But still newton and tebow both played out of the spread in college and were primarily option read qbs. The point is they both showed the ability to adapt to the nfl and different defenses.
I do believe RG3 has the ability to do the same, mainly since he actually depends on his arm more then his legs. So it’s seems that your point is that RG3 doesn’t have the mental smarts or awareness the read and identify defenses.
All of those.. in COLLEGE
RGIII has taken snaps under center-proven
They had pro sets-proven
He has read a defense-proven
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 7, 2012 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
and preseason and practice
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 8, 2012 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with rollo and bam
RG3 is ten fold better then stanzi not saying stanzi isn’t good but like they said can’t beat out palko but back to RG3 I think he is better then luck and will have a better career when all said and done he can read defences and he has a hell of a arm powerful and those legs arm like no other he can burn almost anyone on the field I say he can be the beat QB taking in a very long time with his ability he turned baylor around let’s see how they do next season
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 8, 2012 8:58 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
All unknown.
And RG III never read defenses in college. His OC read the defenses and called in the plays to RG III. Not saying he couldn’t do it. He was a talented QB, but nobody knows how either Stanzi or RG III will become as NFL QBs…
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 9, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
The OC called the plays yes
It’s not like he was right next to RGIII saying ‘hey son look at Wright over there, take him early’ or after the snap ‘Hey do you see how they are dropping into a cover 2? yeah take the shot now!’
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 9, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
RGIII is like 21 years old
Production/Experience
2008: 12 games, 160-267, 60%, 2091 yards, 7.8 YPA, 15 TDs, 3 INTs; 173 rushes, 843 yards, 13 TDs, 4.9 YPC
2009: 3 games, 45-69, 65.2%, 481 yards, 7.0 YPA, 4 TDs, 0 INTs; 27 rushes, 77 yards, 2 TDs, 2.9 YPC
2010: 13 games, 305-454, 67%, 3501 yards, 7.7 YPA, 22 TDs, 8 INTs; 139 rushes, 635 yards, 8 TDs, 4.3 YPC
2011: 13 games, 291-402, 72%, 4293 yards, 10.7 YPA, 37 TDs, 6 INTs; 179 rushes, 699 yards, 3.9 YPC, 10 TDs
this is just sick
http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-robert-griffin-iii
I would be fine with this over 16 games
2011: 13 games, 291-402, 72%, 4293 yards, 10.7 YPA, 37 TDs, 6 INTs; 179 rushes, 699 yards, 3.9 YPC, 10 TDs
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 9, 2012 5:22 PM CST up reply actions
Well golly.. those mean so much!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 9, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
A couple things...
Eli is a 5. No doubt about it. He is elite…I would put him above Ben pretty easily right now. Only QB’s out there I would rather have are Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees, and those are maybes… Notice that Eli beat the 2 QB’s that people consider the best, Rodgers and Brady. Brady is 36 and is probably on the backside of his career. I think he may be done with SB’s, and I hope so.
Next, the last time we got a future HOF QB it worked out pretty well. We got to see 3 playoff games. Manning has been cleared to play by the doctors, and said he is ready. He also said he is not looking for a huge up-front contract, but would rather have one built on incentives. That is perfect for the Chiefs…if he makes the playoffs, pay him. If he goes down with injury, we have Cassel as a backup. Keep Cassel and Stanzi, and we don’t even need to address QB in the draft. We can draft other PON, like offensive line.
Which leads me to my next point: Barry Richardson will NOT be our starting RT this year. We may keep him for depth, but we WILL get an OT in the draft or free agency. At 11, either Martin or Reiff should be there, or we could trade down for more picks and pick up either Adams or Sanders or both. Instant upgrade at RT. Get Nicks in FA, or go DeCastro in the 1st, Sanders in the 2nd and our O-line issues are no longer an issue. Hudson moves to center and we’re fine.
I think with Stanzi sitting behind Manning for a few years, we could already have our QBOTF, and we have a journeyman backup in Cassel if the worst happens, in which case, we can trade up next year and get Barkely.
OTOH, if we could tag-and-trade Bowe and our 11th pick for St. Louis’s 2nd pick, I would also be in favor of that. I just don’t want to be this year’s Atlanta Falcons, trading away the farm for an unproven player.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 6, 2012 10:02 AM CST reply actions
Daboll
I agree except if Daboll doesn’t want him he might treat him like a dog trying to get him to quit.
by Totally confused on Feb 7, 2012 4:10 AM CST reply actions
It is easy to fall in love
with a prospect. Let’s take a look at the second QB’s taken in the draft in the last 20 years.
2 won Super Bowls: Trent Dilfer and Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers is the best QB on this list, but he had the luxury of sitting behind Brett Favre. Would he have been this good if he had been thrown into the fire? Trent Dilfer is largely considered to be a marginal QB who rode the coattails of a legendary defense. The team he won it with was not the team that drafted him.
2 others made the Super Bowl: Donovan Mcnabb and Kerry Collins. Mcnabb is the second best QB on the list, and anyone would be happy if the QB they took had his type of career. Collins actually had a nice career, but was a bust at the beginning when thrown into the fire, and was on his third team when he made it.
I think 4 others could be considered qualified initial successes: Daunte Culpepper had some success, of course with two of the greatest WR’s ever to throw to. Phillip Rivers has had some success in San Diego, but many people believe that choosing him over Brees was the mistake that cost a talented team their Super Bowl run. Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez have been to the playoffs on multiple occasions, but both play for defensive minded teams and are thought to be middle of the road “game management” guys.
That leaves the rest of the list which includes Ryan Leaf, Dave Brown, Rick Mirer, Joey Harrington, Byron Leftwich, Matt Leinart, Brady Quinn, and Tim Tebow.
It’s a crapshoot.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
Seriously?
On the Peyton Manning topic:
At best we would hope to wring 3 years out of him.
Umm…. Yeah…. 3 Super Bowl contending frick’n years. I was born 26 days after the last time the Chiefs were in the Super Bowl. I’m 42 now. I’ll take the 3 damn years!
Dear Santa, All I want for Christmas is a NEW OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!!!
I sit here thinking one thing.....
RUN THE DANG BALL!!!
We have one very good, and very injured runningback, with now quality backup.
Old guys rule...yeah you might have youth and talent on your side...but I have time and treachery...
This whole argument assumes
RG3 will be great, and Manning wont be healthy. It wouldnt be a shocker if it took RG3 two or three seasons to become really good, i think in most cases it takes even longer than that to become elite. So sure 5 years down the road we may have an elite quarterback, but at that point our window may be closing, espeacially because we’ll be trading away most of our pics or some of our studs. Let’s assume Manning will be good to go. Anyone remember how rediculously good this guy was? He comes back at 80% we have a great shot RIGHT AWAY. We should also get 2-3 years to develop a QB. Also, lets not forget the elite talent we can draft this season, hopefully on OL maybe a DT. i think trading multiple picks is SO dangerous considering how thin this team is.
IMO the price has to be right (i want to keep our own FA’s) but if it is, it’s a no brainer SIGN MANNING!
Go luck yourself.
Manning
Career-wise, not as good outside the dome/on grass fields where weather is a factor. Don’t get me wrong. He would still be an upgrade if he was just 80% healthy, but we don’t know he can sack up and handle the weather. Kansas City is kind of windy.
Kinda thinking
that before we offer Peyton a multi-million dollar deal, that we will be sure he is healthy, and likely his contract will be dependent on whether he plays…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 9, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Your saying in essense that if Peyton is not in a dome he does,nt win
Must have did something right he will be a first ballot H.o.f.er i bet you that
His home stadium was a dome
Saying someone plays better in a dome when their home is a dome is kind of pointless, IMHO.
Manning wins pretty much wherever he goes. Most QB’s stumble a bit when they go on the road. Look at Brees in St. Louis, Seattle, and SF this year.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 9, 2012 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Fair point
However, don’t make me do the research on his away games that were domed vs open.
Why don't we find the next "Manning" rather than the last "Manning"
A few draft picks on other “un-proven” players is all it will take.
Maybe we did...
No one has really seen Stanzi play in a real NFL game, have they? Just like noone saw Brady play a real NFL game until Bledsoe got injured, right? Or did Bledsoe just suck and they finally put Brady in? I can’t remember…point is, finding the next Manning would be great, but who are you willing to roll the dice on?
Guys, I really don’t think we’ll be in a great position to get RG3 this year. I think Cleveland will offer its TWO #1 picks and probably a 1 or 2 next year, and their #4 position will look a heckuva lot nicer than our #11. Only way I could see it happening is a minimum of 2 #1’s and tag and trade Bowe, and I’m not sure an untested and unproven QB is worth that risk. That said, if I were Pioli, and I couldn’t get Manning this year, I would try it…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 10, 2012 8:55 PM CST up reply actions
you're wasting your breath there. People are sure that because Stanzi sat while Palko played, it means that Stanzi couldn't beat out Palko, and thus, Stanzi sucks.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Feb 11, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Manning as of the latest reports cannot do this anymore
Arm Strength
Very good arm strength, but not elite. Showed the ability to make throws to the wide side from the far hash in college. Potential for his arm to get stronger in the NFL as he gets bigger and stronger, develops more core strength, and learns to properly drive and transfer his weight on throws.
or this
Accuracy
Deep ball accuracy is superb. As stated, he doesn’t have the strongest arm, but has Philip Rivers-type ball placement on deep routes. Despite not having elite arm strength, receivers rarely have to slow up and wait on his deep ball – he consistently hits the WR in stride. Trusts his WRs and throws the 50/50 ball often and accurately – giving his WRs a chance to climb the ladder and make plays over DBs. Has a tendency to throw behind his target on timing routes to the outside and throws over the middle. Wasn’t challenged by a ton of man coverage – however Oklahoma ran predominantly man against Baylor this season and he responded with some stick throws into tight windows – both deep and over the middle.
http://draftbreakdown.com/scouting-report-robert-griffin-iii
What would it take?
A first a second and D’Bowe? More?
This is a make or break year to my mind. Alot of our guys are getting into thier prime, we need to get the franchise QB NOW not later. Frankily I don’t care if they go apeshit like Ditka and throw our whole draft at SL for him.
In todays game a franchise QB is worth any 3 other players on the roster, it sucks but it’s true. Do whatever it takes but get him in here.
Fear of Failure? What has caused this franchise from taking any risk toward creating a real foundation for a dynasty approach to multiple runs at championships?
Only once in almost a half Century has this franchise used its #1 pick to select QB in the Draft. Yeah, there have been a couple of stabs at a QB FA or a QB by trade. We have had flings with guys like Gannon, Montana, Grbac and Green. But only once in all the years in existance have the Chiefs gone after a QB in the Draft and that was tinged with “Fear of Failure”. The drafting of Blackledge was only because they were afraid of the unsubstantaited rumours surrounding Marino and Drug useage. Most likely rumours started by the Dolphins so Marino would slip. The Steelers and Chiefs played the part of “Chumps” in that fiasco. Fear of failure let the spectre of success for a decade slip through a hesitant grasp.
Drafting a franchise QB can mean challengiing for championships for a decade while deserate grabs at someone elses discards may mean a brief fling but void of deep commitments and rich rewards. Our Chiefs have too many needs to have success arrive with the single aquisition of a great arm and sound mind of a star QB. Yeah we need a QB now but at what cost? WE should go for a QB if at all possible , but, not if it prevents us fron also aquiring those other pieces to fit around him.
1. Need an Outstanding QB. – This is a given. If we give up two #1 draft choices can we still aquire a dominant RT and an upgrade at OG and provide enough up-gades to Defense?? ( Go for it.)
2. Need an Outstanding O-Line for protection. – Looks like we need FA help. With Cap room this is possible but requires a will to succeed. This is required to protect the investment. ( Aquire OG in FA and hope to Draft a quality RT in mid rounds.)
3. Outstanding Defense. – To prevent the opponent from succeeding with their outstanding QB. ( Aquire by FA a quality NT, Grubbs or Nicks; 3rd CB, Routt; DE upgrade that can put more pressure on passer, Mario Williams; Upgrade NT with FA Garray, Soliai or Pouha.
Lose two #1s for RGlll. Gain a high pick (2nd) for Trade of Dorsey. or Consider that compensation could come from loss of Bowe or Carr if tagged.
FA signings: DE Mario Williams, NT Soliai, CB Routt, OG Nicks or Grubbs. re-Sign CB Carr if possible.
FA key loses: Bowe or Carr, BRich,
Draft with two #2’s:
1) QB RG lll (BU) after Trade. net loss is 2013 #1 pick.
2) OT Zebrie Sanders (FSU).
2) FS/SS Harrison Smith (ND), George Iloka (Boise) or Antonio Allen (SC)
3) RB Martin (Boise)
4) WR Joe Adams (Ark), McNutt (IA), Janus Wright (Ark) or Possey (OSU).
5) ILB Franklin (Ark)
6) CB Asa Jackson (Cal Poly) or Omar Bolden (ASU)
7) C Vlachos (AL)
7) NT/DT Baptiste (BU)
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Mario is a OLB in a 3-4 or a DE in a 4-3
Not a 2 gap 5 tech.
No way do I see us signing Mario, Soliai, Route, Nicks/Grubbs+Carr and/or Bowe
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 17, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
I could see us signing Soliai, Route or Carr, Bowe, and a free agent offensive linemen, though.
I don’t want to get my hopes up too high, but I think that’s plausible.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Bowe+Carr=great FA period for us
If we landed Soliai/Grubbs.. would be even better. Nicks? Oh hell yes.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 17, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
If we get our 2, and either Solia or Nicks
that would be a solid “triple”. If we get all four, that’s a grand slam in FA. Think what we could do in the draft if we lock up Bowe and Carr and get OG and NT before the draft even starts. In that scenario, I would be all for trading up to get RG3 even if it meant losing our #2 this year and #1 next year. Get a late round OT to compete with B-Rich for RT, and some depth at S, TE, CB, and LB.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 17, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
Could agree with that
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 17, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
Kansas City Chiefs Quarterback Situation
This is a great article and it all makes since to me, but guess what, we got to be real with this situation and this is the situation we’re up against.
Quarterback
1. Peyton Manning = Cost a butt load of money, High risk with maximum 3 years in league due to age/health, with no guarantee of SB.
2. Matt Cassell - Average QB at best with no guarantee of making playoff and if so, will not advance past 1st round. Will not play backup to Kyle Orton
3. Kyle Orton – Slightly better than Matt Cassell, will get you to the playoffs, 50% chance of making it thru 1st round, 40% chance of winning AFC Divisional, 20% chance of winning SB. Will not play backup to Matt Cassell another season.
4. Ricky Stanzi – Low draft rookie, needs development, maybe good backup or third in line, lets play him in real NFL game and see what we got and make a decision.
5. RG3 - Proven capabilities, #2 (should be #1) overall player in draft, could start immediately but definitely a #2 in line while learning NFL waiting to be #1in case anything goes wrong with #1 – this is our QBOTF.
With the talent we have right now (considering we get the deals done with Bowe & Carr) , the Chiefs are ready to be that team to be contenders for a good stretch of years if they simply make the right decisions. To me the best scenario for this team right now would be to stay as far away from Peyton as possible. That could be a costly setback for years to come. Trade Cassell and get whatever you can for him. Resign Kyle Orton as your #1 QB and definitely move up in the draft to get RG3. We can not rely on a draft next year because the Chiefs (as we seen this year) has enough talent to win a certain # of games which will not guarantee you that you’ll be in position to get that quality pick. With Orton, RG and Stanzi, you have a leader, quality #2 ready to go, with a backup in development. We got the money to make this happen plus feel in the other holes on the team that we need to address such as the OL & DL. What do you think?
How can you say "proven capabilities"?
He hasn’t played a single down of NFL football.
Akili Smith had 32 TD passes in only 11 starts in college. Now he’s an intern for Cal…(#3 pick)
Jim Druckenmiller led his team to 2 consecutive big east championships. He finished his NFL career with 1 TD, and 4 INT’s.
Don’t forget Ryan Leaf, Cade McNown, and Tim Couch. I’m not saying RG3 isn’t better than all of these guys. I am saying that even if he is a great athlete, don’t crown him the next Steve McNair (his likely comparison) without him having played a down.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 17, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
RG3 is better then all those guys you just mentioned by far none of those other QBs had the ability to do what RG3 can do sorry!
RG3 hands down is our best option but it would be almost impossible trying to beat out the browns and redskins to get him its going to be hard but if we don’t try to go after him that would by far one of the worst decision they can make saying we have a team full of young starts and no QB to take us where we want to go the superbowl
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 18, 2012 9:44 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Ryan Leaf...
The Chargers traded two first-round picks, a second-round pick and Pro Bowler Eric Metcalf for a quarterback who would alienate teammates, infuriate fans and produce a mere 21 starts with 14 touchdowns and 36 interceptions.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=cr-worstfirstroundpicks042407
Do you want to mortgage away our team to get an unknown (RG3)?
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 17, 2012 2:22 PM CST reply actions
How about Eli?
Big trade to get him, I would say it paid off.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 17, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Yes.
Do you know why the Chargers have been able to draft 2 franchise quarterbacks since Ryan Leaf and we haven’t? Because they aren’t afraid to try.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
ding ding
let’s not make it another year of being scared to move up for once! we have a good enough team built to if we went after RG3 and it didn’t work if would hurt us as bad if we didn’t have all this young talent
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 18, 2012 9:46 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Lol Ryan Leaf
Ryan Leaf’s problems were between his ears, still are in fact. I seem to recall his road to legendary bust status began at Arrowhead. DT and Neil ruined that boy and it was AWESOME!!
Thing is there is nothing indicated by RG’s play or Character to indicate he’ll turn out that way.
But most of all, fear should never dictate when they need to make a pick or get the guy they need.
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