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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

The Truth about the Cap

So I was thinking today after a lot of talk about different cap numbers that are being floated around. I figured I'd try to think out loud and try to take a look at where the Chiefs are with the cap and what it really means in terms of spending.

Star-divide

First lets look at the numbers we heard straight from the GM on the Border Patrol this morning.

According to Pioli the $62 million that is being talked about lately, will be reduced by $25 million after current contract escalators and performance incentives are applied.

Now we're at $38 million under.

We just signed Stanford Routt to a 3 year/$19 million deal. Apparently $11 million of that will be applied to the 2012 cap.

As was pointed out in the comments, Routt looks like he is a $3.33 million cap hit this year

Now we're at $35 million under.

I'd like to think Dwayne Bowe will be resigned. What sort of contract? Larry Fitzgerald is on a 8 year/$120 million deal. Bowe isn't Fitzgerald. Anquan Boldin is on a 4 year/$28 million deal. Bowe is younger and more dynamic than Boldin was when he signed his deal. What do you say we split the difference and say Bowe signs a 6 year/$66 million deal, and since they've done it with almost every major deal, let's assume salary plus accrued signing bonus will count $15 million in the first year (about 33% above the yearly average of the deal)

Now we're at $20 million under.

Hey Kyle Orton fans, let's get him locked up. Matt Hasselbeck is currently on a 3 year/$20 million contract. This is an apt contract comparison to me. Certainly he's not going to fetch 6 years/$59 million like Ryan Fitzpatrick did. I'm comfortable putting Orton in the $6-7 million range, and just because this is all hypothetical, I'm giving him the cap-friendlier $6 million.

Now we're at $14 million under. Wait, wait, wait. Kyle Orton is not resigning in KC unless Matt Cassel is flat out cut or traded. Cassel will make $5.25 million this and there are only $600,000 in bonuses left on his deal, so really to cut Cassel and sign Orton financially is a wash. Either way, the Chiefs don't spend more then $5.5-7 million on a vet QB. Let's put that $6 million back.

Now we're at $20 million under.

I don't know what the Chiefs rookie salary pool will be, but I'm guessing between $2-3 million.

Now we're at $18 million under.

What do we NEED to upgrade to be a Super Bowl contender this year:

OT, OG, NT, #2 RB.

What depth positions NEED to be filled through the draft or Free Agency

#2 TE, FB, #4-5 WR, Back up safeties, Back up DE's (maybe resign Gillberry?),

So now we have $18 million to send on many positions.

Want to re-sign Carr ($10 million?), Leron McLain ($2 million) ? Want to sign Carl Nicks($6 million?), BenJarvis Green-Ellis ($4 million), Paul Soliai ($7 million?)? Decisions will have to be made, but there isn't going to be a crazy free agency splash. There will be maybe 1 larger signing and a few $1-2 million/year deals. Turns out we can afford a few of these guys. I'd say there is a enough cushion here to sign 2-3 mid-high end free agents and a few $1-2 million guys.

The point is, let's look at what is actually available to spend and what we should be REALISTICALLY expecting.

(People might take issue with some of my assumed numbers. I admit they are a guess. Dwayne Bowe, for example could be anywhere between a $10-15 million cap hit this year so I am giving and taking a few million bills.)

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Interesting

I’m guessing you can only fill a hole on O-Line or D-Line through free agency, but not both, and the other will have to be addressed via the draft.

Pioli will get a chance to prove he can find some jewels in the rough though with those $1-2 mill signings. Hopefully he finds more Sean Smiths and Ryan Liljas and not Sabby Piscatellis and Mike Goffs.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 21, 2012 10:25 AM CST reply actions  

Plus

Players got cut like Carr and more to follow. We typically r one of the cheapest franchises in the league and it shows

by krayfish on Feb 21, 2012 11:17 AM CST reply actions  

kray, unless my eyes have deceived me, I haven't seen you around here in awhile.

"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "

by chief Stevie_k on Feb 21, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Where you been Kray?

LONG time no see.

The most important thing you can do in life is help other people.

by dklogue1 on Feb 21, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions  

Signing Orton and cutting Cassel leaves us without a viable backap QB.

I think if Stanzi was developing as expected, we would have seen him displace Palko last year. Cassel needs to stay, either as our backup or our starter.

by Jaywalk3r on Feb 21, 2012 11:22 AM CST reply actions  

You can find guys with some starting experience for cheap

Didn’t someone just sign Troy Smith for nothing? Seems like there are always a few guys like that that could step in if needed and not totally embarrass you the way Palko did.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 21, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, like Henne ... oh boy ;-)

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 21, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Cassel's cap number is higher if we cut him than if we keep him, anyway.

We might save cash, but we’d lose cap space. I don’t think Pioli plans to waste cap space like that.

by Jaywalk3r on Feb 21, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Routt is not an 11 million cap hit

Signing bonuses are pro-rated for the length of the contract. So his 4 million signing bonus is only 1.33 million is applied to this year. His base salary is 2 million for the year, putting his cap hit at only 3.33 million. He’s going to make money from the Raiders and he’ll get his whole signing bonus, but the Raiders money doesn’t matter to us and again, signing bonus is pro-rated.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 11:27 AM CST reply actions  

No he is getting $11M this year as part of a 3yr/$19.6M deal

All that is guaranteed if he gets cut is his $4M signing bonus and $2M of his salary, but if he stays (and of course they aren’t going to cut him) he gets $4M signing bonus and $7M in salary for a cap number of $7M + $1.33M = $8.3M. But then his salaries in 2013 and 2014 only total $8.6M with a total cap value of $8.3M + $2.67M = $11.97M or only about $5.5M per year. This kind of backwards frontloaded deal will be common this year because of the carryover cap clause and the resulting huge cap…

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Links

Here’s the tweet yesterday from Andrew Brandt on Routt’s big March.
https://twitter.com/#!/adbrandt/status/171738257963499520

Add in the 2 million base salary and you get to the 11 million being reported on ESPN.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/stanford-routt/

ESPN is pretty consistently terrible when it comes to stuff like this, especially when it’s coming from divisional blog writers.

The Chiefs would be nuts to spend 1/3rd of that big of a cap space on a #2 CB. People give Pioli a lot of crap, but contracts are one of his strong suits.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 11:34 AM CST reply actions  

Thanks. I stand corrected.

I figured they just front loaded the deal to protect future year’s cap hits.

That extra $8 million is actually a nice opportunity and significantly affects the tone of the end of this post.

by RedNose on Feb 21, 2012 11:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Did you forget something
What do we NEED to upgrade to be a Super Bowl contender this year:

OT, OG, NT, #2 RB.

Nowhere on that list do I see QB

'' if you’re expecting something to look real fancy or nice, I don’t think that’s what you’re going to see here with this Chiefs team'', Todd Haley

Aint that the truth

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 21, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Hahah

If we can upgrade QB, I’ll take it. I don’t know what’ll be out there that’s a big improvement over Cassel.

by RedNose on Feb 21, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

There isn't without giving up multiple 1st rounders + or trading away a players. Both sets the overall development of the team back.

Our QBOTF is alreay on the roster…his name is Ricky Stanzi…he will start once the O-Line is shored up and we find a RB to replace TJ.

by DivineGrace on Feb 21, 2012 11:33 PM CST up reply actions  

that is a spiffy little website. good info.

"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "

by chief Stevie_k on Feb 21, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions  

here is my question

what do all the numbers mean?

3 year, $19.6M. does that include the signing bonus or is the signing bonus on top of that? It has his average salary as $6.533M…

with a $2M base and the $1.33M prorated signing bonus.

Does that mean that the deal was for 3 years and $15.6M +$4M signing bonus
OR
3 years and $19.6M + $4M signing bonus?

"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "

by chief Stevie_k on Feb 21, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Cassel can't be cut, as he would cost almost as much in dead money as cap dollars if he stays.

Cassel got a $10M signing bonus (prorated in at $2M per year for five years) and a $7.5M roster bonus last year (prorated in at $2.5M for three years.) If he stays, his cap number is $5.25M salary + $2M + $2.5M = $9.75M. If he got cut or traded, the last two years of bonus money would come due immediately, so he would cost 2 x $2M + 2 x $2.5M = $9M in dead money.

Added to Routt’s cap number this year being $8.3M, not $3.3M, and they’ve got way less to spend than you are crediting…

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 1:22 PM CST reply actions  

And here are the conflicting numbers going back and forth

This site: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/matt-cassel/

It shows $28 Million guaranteed, with only $205,000 in bonuses over the next 3 years.

It shows the entire $10 million signing bonus applied to the 2009 season.

Sources sighted for the site are listed as Rotoworld and USA today.

What am I missing here?

by RedNose on Feb 21, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions  

spotrac is wrong on a lot of their contract numbers. The signing bonus counting in the first yera instead of prorating is a prime example here. It prorates at $2M per year for the life of the contract.

The $28M that was guaranteed was his $10M signing bonus and the first two years of salary. We could have cut him last year without owing him any more money (we still would have had dead money due to the signing bonus.) But we picked up the rest of the deal by giving him a $7.5M roster bonus last March. Now there is signing bonus money and roster bonus money still to be applied to the cap. Google “matt cassel contract” and you’ll get several links and can find the right numbers…

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions  

They are

See below where I went into it more, but Roster Bonuses are applied to the salary cap the year they are incurred. They do not prorate for the life of the contract like signing bonuses do. Roster bonuses are not guaranteed money, which is why if Cassel was terrible in 09/10, the Chiefs could have cut him and been OK.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think you are looking at this right...

Routt is 3.3M. I showed you the numbers. We do not count the 5 million from the Raiders as part of our cap hit as he was not traded. The Raiders cut him and that 5 million goes in as dead money on their part this year, not ours. It’s 3.3M.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Isn't the $5 million from the Raiders in addition to the $7 million in base salary that he'll receive from the Chiefs?

It’s money he’s owed from a previous contract that doesn’t involve KC. Routt was a free agent; we didn’t trade for him.

by Jaywalk3r on Feb 21, 2012 2:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Routt's base salary for 2012 is being reported as $2M.

That that means is that his base salary for 2013 and 2014 will average close to $7M those two years, and an average cap hit of $8.1M in 2013 and 2014.

It appears even with the $37M in cap room, Pioli didn’t front-weight the contract.

It appears he either wants to make Routt prove his worth, or this signing really is insurance in case Carr doesn’t re-sign. One thing is for sure, whether 2013 or 2014, Routt will probably be cut or have to renegotiate his contract unless he plays superbly. Otherwise, he’ll probably end up getting cut next year….the cost of cutting him would be $2.67M (the rest of his prorated bonus), but would save about $13.65M in cap over the 2013 and 2014 seasons.

If my understanding and calculations are correct.

"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "

by chief Stevie_k on Feb 21, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

With a contract structured like that, while we have cap space available,

I can’t help but wonder if Pioli is planning to go after a quarterback other than someone who is just average like Cassel.

by Jaywalk3r on Feb 21, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

He got a 3yr deal from us worth a total of $19.6M

$6M is guaranteed no matter what. That’s his $4M signing bonus and $2M of his salary for this year. But he gets $11M from us (Oakland’s $5M has nothing to do with us) this year if he doesn’t get cut before the first game of the season. That’s $4M signing bonus and $7M in salary. So his cap number will be $7M + 1/3 of $4M ($1.33M) = $8.3M. Check it out if you don’t believe me.

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Where are you getting that he's getting 7M salary this year?

That’s what doesn’t make sense…the 11M you’re referencing is coming from what again? Like I said before, he’s getting 5M from the Raiders as part of his guaranteed money. He’s getting 4M from the Chiefs as a signing bonus. He’s schedule to make 2M in salary this year. Routt is making 11M this year. The actual cap hit to the CHIEFS is 2M (salary) + 1.33M (pro-rated bonus (4M/3 years)) = 3.33M. Why are you adding the 5M from the Raiders on top of this?

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Per John Clayton
Routt will receive $6.5 million in guarantees and will make $11 million this season as part of a three-year deal

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions  

Clayton is an idiot

We’re not on the hook for 8.3M, I’m not sure what else to say to convince you otherwise.

http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3183/stanford-routt
Click on view contract details.
6.5M guaranteed, 4M of which is a signing bonus. 2M is guaranteed salary. 3.3M.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, your Cassel numbers are way off

Cassel’s contract was specifically designed to pay him the majority of his money up front. We can cut him and incur 615k in dead money this year, but a savings of 5.25M in salary this year, 7.5M next year and 9M in 2014. You might want to reconsider your sources or read up a little more before passing out so much misinformation.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions  

No they aren't. It was a six year deal, not five as I said, but

Cassel got a $10M signing bonus, of which $1.67M was on the cap in ’09, $1.67M in ’10, $1.67M in ’11, and $5M still owed to the cap. He got a $7.5M roster bonus in ’11, of which $1.875M was on the cap in ’11 and $5.625M is still owed to the cap. All he has left now in money is the salaries you mention and insignificant workout bonuses, but he still has a bunch of bonus money to come off the cap.

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Cassel didn't get any signing bonus

He got a roster bonus in his first year for 10M and a 7.5M option in his third year. Roster bonuses aren’t prorated, they are incurred the year they apply. That 10M is paid and accounted for as is the 7.5M.

From Wikipedia:
The roster bonus has a very specific effect on a team’s “salary cap,” the amount of its payroll that counts toward the money permitted by league agreement. The fact that it postpones much of the salary cap impact of a new player is one of the reasons it has become a popular contract feature, especially in the contract of highly-compensated star players, but also as a way of recognizing and incentivizing mid- and lower-salaried players as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roster_bonus

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions  

The block you quoted is explaining that roster bonuses, like signing bonuses

are prorated. That’s how

it postpones much of the salary cap impact of a new player is one of the reasons it has become a popular contract feature

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions  

No, it's not

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

The non-guaranteed amount of any salary advance, off-season workout bonus, off-season roster bonus, or off-season reporting bonus is included in the team’s salary in the year it was earned. These bonuses cannot be prorated.

HENCE, Roster bonuses are not GUARANTEED. They are CONDITIONAL and you must be on the roster as of a certain future date and are therefore not prorated.

by excidium on Feb 21, 2012 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

They're not guaranteed, but they are prorated.

Peyton Manning is due a $28M roster bonus on March 8. You are saying that that entire bonus counts against their cap, plus the $7M or so in salary he is scheduled for, he would count against the cap for over $35M! Signing bonuses and roster bonuses are both prorated.

Your wiki quote is explaining that. If you want the money to count against the cap the year you pay it, it’s called salary in the contract. If you want to prorate it out, it’s called a bonus. Signing bonuses are due when the contract is signed, and roster bonuses are due only if you are still on the roster when the payment is scheduled. They are both prorated, signing bonuses over the life of the contract, and roster bonuses over the remainder of the contract at the time they are due/paid.

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm reading the askthecommish thing and see where he says roster bonuses are paid that year

but that runs contradictory to what I’ve read elsewhere. I’m looking for it and I’ll link if I can find it…

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions  

figured it out. From the paragraph above the one you quoted on askthecommish:

Money guaranteed or paid for option years, contract extensions, contract modifications, individually negotiated rights of first refusal, and option buyouts are considered signing bonuses.

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions  

In fact, the whole paragraph:
Also included in the "bonus" are guaranteed reporting bonuses and guaranteed workout bonuses. Roster or reporting bonuses earned or paid
before preseason training camp

are also considered bonuses. Guaranteed salary advances or advances that do not have to be repaid are treated as signing bonuses. Money guaranteed or paid for option years, contract extensions, contract modifications, individually negotiated rights of first refusal, and option buyouts are considered signing bonuses. Reporting bonuses are treated as signing bonuses if the contract is signed after the start of training camp. Roster bonuses are also considered signing bonuses if the contract was signed after the last preseason game. Finally, individually negotiated relocation bonuses are treated as a signing bonus.

Cassel’s bonuses are prorated as signing bonuses because they were both paid before preseason training camp. His first roster bonus was part of his extension, and the second one was part of an option.

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 21, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions  

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