Brandon Flowers' contract (and what it means about Brandon Carr)
The extension Pioli worked out with Flowers last year was a beauty for the Chiefs. It shows exactly why Pioli is so well regarded in the NFL community.
Flowers was a year away from free agency and the promise of top ten corner money (about $10-$11M per year and rising,) and that would have given the Chiefs three top tier players as free agents and only one franchise tag. He would have had all the negotiating power a player can wield, and likely would have cost more in actual money, but definitely cost more in cap dollars.
What Flowers actually got was a five year extension worth $50M. His agent can go brag on getting him, on paper at least, $10M a year and a spot on the top 10 corner salary list. Let's break down the actual deal. He got a $10M signing bonus and a raise in 2011 (the last year of his rookie deal) to $1M in salary. He then gets salaries that bounce around from $5.25-$7.25M per year from 2012-16, along with reporting bonuses of $2M per year in the last three years of the deal (2014-16.) Salaries count the year they are paid, and the bonuses prorate evenly over the remainind years under contract at the time they are paid. Here are the details with cap ramifications...
2011 $10M bonus, $1M salary, $2.7M cap hit
2012 $5.75 salary, $7.45M cap hit
2013 $7.35M salary, $9.95M cap hit
2014 $2M bonus, $5.25M salary, $7.75M cap hit, $5.4M cap hit if traded or released
2015 $2M bonus, $7.25M salary, $10.75M cap hit, $4.9M hit if moved
2016 $2M bonus, $6.5M salary, $12M cap hit $3.5M hit if moved
The first reality of all NFL contracts is evident here. The last couple years are bullshit. See those outragious cap numbers? $10.75M in '15 and $12M in '16... not likely. Both years are set up such that the team can save not only $9.25M in '15 and $8.5M in '16 by getting out of the contract, but $5.85M in '15 and $8.5M in '16 in cap dollars as well. If Flowers begins to lose effectiveness by then, he will simply be released. If he's still playing well, but the Chiefs don't think he's worth the money or a new contract, he will be traded. And if (we hope) he's as good or better than he is now, he'll get another extension in 2014 that will convert some of that salary into a proratable signing bonus and keep him another three or four years. Even if he sees this coming, he's unlikely to hold out to fix it because he loses a $2M check if he's not in camp on time from 2014 on.
Flowers' agent leaves with 5 years, $50M. "I got Flowers $10M per, come sign with me!" But from the Chiefs' view, they have him for four years with a total cash outlay of $30.35M, or about $7.5M per. They only gave up $10M+ once, in 2011. He only has one year at $10M against the cap (actually $9.95M in '13) Just like Charles, DJ, and even Hali, this is a very team friendly contract.
So what does this have to do with Carr? Folks, this really mean he is gone. I wish it didn't but it does. I bet that Carr even got an offer of similar money and commitment from the team this year, and just wants more. He, too, is looking for top 10 corner money. But he wants to use his leverage to get the best deal, so he is waiting for free agency and job offers from other teams. Five years at $50M would probably do the trick. Pioli just isn't going to be the guy to give it to him. Now that there's no contract to extend, there's less magic on the table. If Carr gets paid like that, it would actually mean giving him $30M in three years, so he would get a couple million a year more than Flowers. His cap number would be higher than Flowers' from day one. Are the Chiefs going to make Carr their highest paid corner? How do we think Flowers would react to being the second paid corner on the Chiefs? Are the Chiefs going to commit over 20% of their cap dollars to three players in the secondary? No way. I don't think it will happen. I think the tag goes on Bowe, and Carr walks (I'm not even sure it won't just be a tag and trade with Bowe, but that's another conversation...) The team has known it, that's why they spent picks on Arenas and Brown. The only thing left to find out is what round the compensatory pick we get in '13 comes in.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Interesting take NM
This is a pretty deep draft class for CBs with 7 or 8 that could go in the first 2 rounds. I wonder if we could sign Bowe, and then trade down in the draft and with 3 picks in the first 2 rounds get OL, CB, and NT (Janoris Jenkins at the end of the first or beginning of the second could be awesome).
Do you think Arenas or Brown can step in to be our #2 corner?
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I hope so
Either would probably be a downgrade from Carr, but hopefully not a disasterous one. Luckily the secondary is pretty darn good with Flowers, Berry and Lewis. Hopefully Brown or Arenas can either replace Carr or at least hold down the fort until someone else does…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
i think Carr gets and signs a similar deal
by stagdsp on Feb 2, 2012 3:28 PM CST via mobile reply actions
yup, and he SHOULD get it
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Yup. Yup.
I still don’t like the back-loaded bullshit, and it’s good to have somebody remind us, once in awhile, about the “out-years” of these deals. In those first 3 years, the ones that count, it’s roughly $8 million, isn’t it ($24.1 million, over 3 years)? That seems about right, and it seems about right for Carr, too.
would of ≠ would've
I just think if he was going to resign he would have.
Waiting this long is a sure sugn they aren’t on the same page. Unfortunately, the same can probably be said for Bowe. I am really starting to think they will end up franchising Bowe and then trading him, and that means Carr gets to take offers. I doubt seriously Pioli is interested in a bidding war.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
i dont jump to that conclusion
Hali signed late, but he got his deal
I think it’s just part of the game, nobody wants to show their hand until they have to
by stagdsp on Feb 2, 2012 5:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Pretty gloomy. I hope you're wrong.
I was disappointed that Pioli didn’t just get both these guys signed, when Flowers re-signed.
would of ≠ would've
pioli screwed up on this one
He could have signed him for 5 yr 25-30 mil last year instead of the tender and we had the money. Now if we loose Carr we will have to waste a draft pick to replace him.
by chiefnation on Feb 2, 2012 4:20 PM CST via mobile reply actions
If he would have signed for $5 or $6M last year they would have signed him
He knew then he wanted to be a free agent. All players do, really. They might have gotten him for $7 or $8M last year. Now it’s $9 or $10M.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
He said himself, he would have signed a long term extention last year
But none was offered.
by craig in calgary on Feb 2, 2012 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
See, it's stuff like that that I hate hearin'. Sure enough: craig in calgary. DANG!
would of ≠ would've
Remember, Dr. Mills. Hoodie/Pioli have a documented history ...
of letting CB’s walk after about 4-5 years when they start demanding big money, and then replacing them with draft picks. Yeah … they re-signed Flowers … but still. I also think I saw somewhere once where Hoodie said he believes CB’s start going downhill after 4-5 years due to nagging injuries, and aging already diminishing their athleticism for the most part. He just believes in keeping DB’s … CB’s especially … freshly stocked with draft picks.
I’m still very suspicious that Jalil was drafted to replace Carr if he shows promise. I mean, Jalil has almost the exact same measureables as Carr. I kinda have a gut feeling Scotty-P lets Carr split, too. And that Scotty just might draft another CB in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th rd, or wherever. New draft picks in 2nd rd. and later also come MUCH cheaper. ;+)
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by LocoLoboChico on Feb 4, 2012 1:06 AM CST up reply actions
The League needs to come up with something that would make players want to stay with their original team.
The Chiefs have alot of players on their roster now that will be wanting to get paid in the future, the list of key players on the FA market is going to grow over the next few years.
I agree with you, Carr wants to get paid or he’d be signed right now. But I also think Carr could be as good or better than Flowers in the future, like Hmills said, Flowers is as good as he’ll ever be, but Carr is still growing and improving every year. Maybe we should sign Carr and trade Flowers.
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Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
IMHO
Carr is good, because Flowers is great. They don’t pass Flowers’ way very often, which means in game situations, Carr is getting a lot more actual real reps.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 3, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Funny, I see 'em both defend the 9 route and I like the way Carr does it, better.
Carr is much more convincing in inside leverage against the bigger and faster wideouts. Flowers is going to leave a window, even if he defends it perfectly, provided the WR and QB execute. Carr will make a play on the perfectly executed, but ill-considered throw, because he’ll match the speed, get the position AND contest for the ball.
You put a smaller WR in front of Flowers and he’ll put on a clinic that Carr would be hard-pressed to match. Anybody quicker, Flowers will beat him physically. Anybody not quicker and it’s lights out. Flowers will put up a good fight against anybody, but there are big ‘n’ fast guys he’s flat-out mismatched against, and those are the games where they stick him in outside leverage and we all bitch about how slow our safeties are.
would of ≠ would've
Yep, the drafting of Baldwin and Brown both look like insurance picks
against having to sign Bowe and Carr this year..
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
Moeaki, too
I bet we see another wr or te in the 2nd to 4th this year, too. Bowe considers himself more elite than Carr or even Hali… He wants big big bucks. The good news is, he is really good. He might be worth the cash, and if Pioli doesn’t think so, we could probably find someone who will pay it and give us a high pick for the privilige. You know we could get a 2, and maybe even a 1…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I still think
we work out a deal with Carr and we tag Bowe. Would not be real surprised with a tag AND trade. Maybe we could trade Bowe and our 11th pick to STL for their pick. Then we could get RG3.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Feb 3, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
I still think it's the opposite
Sign Bowe, Tag Carr
I don’t see them trading up for RG3, as much as I’d love to
Absent facts, I'm taking Pioli at face value.
I’m not sure how Haley’s firing will play into this, but that’s a part of the dynamic. How much do these guys like playin’ for RAC? Rumblings from terminated mid- and senior-management notwithstanding, what IS the relationship between Pioli and the players? The coaches and the players? We’ve seen that mgmt-to-coaches wasn’t all that great.
I’m pondering these intangibles, and expecting these guys will re-sign with the ballclub, because as much as I liked Haley, I doubt there’s a single player who’s heard a sneeringly sarcastic remark aimed at him by Pioli. I may not like Pioli’s scattershot “rising tide lifts all boats” approach to personnel (I’m more about laying the foundation stones, before building my towers, using the stone-building time to shop for good deals on windows), but I think he can make a good pitch to Carr and Bowe that glory awaits, if they will stay the course. There’s talent sprinkled across the whole roster, and they’re one good draft and round of FA to round out the team.
would of ≠ would've
True-but maybe the players saw a coach they repected get totally beaten down by Pioli?
because as much as I liked Haley, I doubt there’s a single player who’s heard a sneeringly sarcastic remark aimed at him by Pioli
Looks like we will never get the real scoop.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Feb 3, 2012 10:50 PM CST up reply actions
























