Where Does Dwayne Bowe Rank Among Free Agent Receivers?
by Joel Thorman on Feb 16, 2012 10:34 AM CST
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Where does Kansas City Chiefs WR Dwayne Bowe rank on the list of impending wide receiver free agents?
I'm a Chiefs fan, which means I'm biased, so I'd place him in the top handful of available receivers. But, according to unbiased rankings, the top five sounds about right for him.
The top free agency receiver is Wes Welker, but we know the New England Patriots won't let him get away so he'll get the franchise tag or a longterm deal. And then there's Mike Wallace of the Pittsburgh Steelers. Again, they won't let him leave.
Those are your top two guys, according to rankings by Pro Football Focus, and the next two are Bowe and San Diego Chargers WR Vincent Jackson. Jackson is third and Bowe is fourth, according to PFF.
Despite his touchdown receptions dropping from 15 to five, Bowe had an impressive 2011. Catching a pass of 20 yards or more in 12 of 16 games this year, he showed that he can stretch the field and, in the right situation, could put up big numbers again in 2012.
He caught a pass over 20 yards in 75 percent of the games this season so he's one of the few guys on the team that consistently stretches the field. And, he's only 27 years old, which means he has at least a few more years in his prime.
Jackson is already 29 years old and his legal past may be more red flags than Bowe's occasional boneheadedness. But....I think Jackson is a better talent than Bowe. He can stretch the field a little more (maybe that's due partially the quarterbacks each guy has played with) and I love me some 6'5" receivers so he gets bonus points on size.
But which one is the better free agent? Which one am I going to sign if I'm a team not named the Chiefs? Again, I'm biased, but I take Bowe. He's younger and, outside of his 2009 season, he's been very consistent in the league. I think he might actually be less of a risk than Jackson.
So those are your top four receivers. The first two -- Welker and Wallace -- are likely staying put. But Jackson, and perhaps Bowe, could hit the open market. Thoughts on how those guys are ranked?
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So in other words
Brother is getting paid. I think Pioli draws a line and isn’t the type to enter bidding wars. Similar to Carr, if they find more money elsewhere he’ll have to choose which of the two he wants more. And judging by his affinity for Cassel, I think he’s more inclined to keep an offensive weapon and replace a defensive starter
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:39 AM CST reply actions
I think he's getting franchised
Just always seemed like the most likely scenario with him.
Keeps him motivated, lets us see what we have in Baldwin, locks him into KC.
I’m not saying it’s what I would do, but I think that’s been Pioli’s plan pretty much all along.
It makes sense in a way
IF Baldwin breaks out, suddenly Bowe becomes a lot more expendable. If he doesn’t, we know we’ve gotta cough up the cash.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Oh hell no
Bowe has earned his. He has nothing left to prove. Give him an incentive heavy contract and let the Killer B’s ball out for the next 4 years
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Bowe has plenty left to prove
He isn’t any where near as good as he could/can be.
That doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve a long-term deal, but let’s not act like he’s a perfect player.
Oh, and ‘earned his’ means nothing in the NFL. You aren’t paying for past performance, you are paying for future results.
And the pattern is
with competent QB’ing Bowe is a baller and force to reckon with. I’m afraid to see him leave KC because if he goes to a team with an actual QB shit will get ugly around here
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I mostly agree with you
But again, he has plenty to improve on, and is still inconsistent.
I would pay him, and I think he would excel on another team with better QB play, but you never know. WR’s that change teams usually struggle to replicate success.
I disagree with the inconsistent part
He’s had 1100+ yard season his last two years. Has just under 5000 over his career. And has great YPC/YAC numbers.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
Fair
Game to game he is inconsistent, specifically he drops passes that he shouldn’t at a higher frequency than other ‘elite’ WR’s.
True
But you also can’t just look at the WR in a vacuum. Some of those passes that he’s dropped are on him. Some are on his QB (or lack there of), and some are on the fact that he’s been the only target and has been double teamed (and doesn’t drop ALL of those). Yanno? I’m just saying giving those circumstances, the fact that he’s put up the numbers he has is pretty damn impressive.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
Very impressive.
I’m not saying he sucks, I said above that he’s probably close to the 10th best WR in the NFL. That’s very high praise anywhere other than AP.
He could improve on his consistency and focus, especially on more routine plays.
1 Reason i would put him up there with top receivers.
Look at what QB he has throwing to him. Other top receivers has Future Hall of Famers as QB;s. Drop passes his fault or QB fault? Other kc receivers has them and chiefs is up there nere tops in league on that. Put him with a good QB and his numbers would put in with top 5 WR’s each year.
Agreed.
I should have read your post before responding.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
There's no way he signs an incentive heavy contract
After being in the league and producing this long.
The “franchise him” situation is assuming he’s asking for elite money.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not so certain
he doesn’t deserve it. Hard-pressed to find a WR in this league who has done more with less
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I agree to a point
However, there’s a limit to the amount I think is prudent to spend on a WR. Hard to find a less crucial position in the NFL.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
If he's lived up to the billing
and production of a Top 5 receiver, you give him Top 5 money. What precedent does that set if you don’t?
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
I'm a fan
But he’s not one of the top 5 WR’s in the NFL.
Top 15? yes.
Spitballing
Megatron, Fitz, Andre Johnson, _________, ___________ ?
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Jennings, Welker, White, Marshall, Wallace, Nicks...
I could look it up and get more, he may be around 10th, though.
Fine.
Top 10 money he wants. Top 10 money he should get
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
If he wants a contract that pays him around the #10 WR in the NFL
He should absolutely get it.
I'm not sure Bowe is definitely worse than any of those guys.
And I know I’d rather have him than Marshall.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
by MtHammer on Feb 16, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As per NFL.com
Receptions – Bowe = #10 (#6 if all non-WRs eliminated)
Yards – Bowe = #13 (#11 w/o non-WRs)
Yards/Game – Bowe = #17 (#15 w/o non-WRs)
TDs – Bowe = #45 (obviously a horrid offensive season all the way around in KC!)
20+ – Bowe = Tied #9 with Baldwin (Sea), Nelson (GB), Green (Cin)
I would be interested to see a “drops” count.
In accordance with the prophecy
I am the 1%
He had something like 12.
Roddy White had more with 15.
But, Bowe does not appear on the top 15 highest drop rate list, according to Profootballfocus.
Bowe doesn’t have anything to prove, imo. He’s not top 5, but he’s definitely top 10.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Feb 16, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
I dont think any of those receivers you mentioned are better then Bowe
with the exception of Wallace and Welker… If Bowe had a Rodgers, Ryan,or Manning, I think you would see the same numbers then those receivers
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
He's better than Welker, Wallace and Nick
Welker is nothing without Tommy
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 16, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I think AJ has fallen off a step
He’s never been as singularly dominant as Megatron and Fitz. Those two have been dominant forces even as the only threat on the field. AJ has had the benefit of a solid enough running game to keep safeties honest.
When you mess with Daboll, you get the horns.
he was hurt some this past year, no? AJ
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
True, but that needs to be part of the equation
He’s a little long in the tooth. My ratings are based on the potential of the guys going forward. AJ is a bit older than Bowe, has had injuries in each of the last two seasons, and that means Bowe would be a more desireable option ceteris parabis.
When you mess with Daboll, you get the horns.
Spoken like a member of planet AP
3rd best WR in the league, he needs you as his agent.
I suppose rankings are a bit muddy, no two will be alike.
But I see Bowe as one of the best in the league after contact, runs crisp routes, can get you short and mid range possession receptions, but can also make the play on the deep ball (although lacks speed to gain full seperation a la a Fitz or Megatron).
The guys you named seem far more one dimensional: Welker is a short to medium possession guy, fairly ineffective deep and outside the hashes. Wallace is a deep threat tour de force, but limited in his short routes and possession receptions. Marshall can do both, but falls off when his QB is lackluster. Jennings seems to be average as a possession guy, better as a genuine deep threat. But I’ll give Jennings this, no one scores TDs on a broken leg quite like he does.
When you mess with Daboll, you get the horns.
You can pick nits at some of the choices, and some depend on what you are asking of them
But there isn’t a GM in the NFL that would pick Bowe as the 3rd best WR in the NFL.
I mean, you have him over AJ. I can’t take you seriously after I see that. Sorry.
AJ is good for what 8-10 games a year? That has to factor in
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
He missed 9 last year
And even with that, has averaged 13 games the last 4 years.
And he's three years older than Bowe
When you’re looking at signing players, age discrimination is part and parcel of the game my friend.
When you mess with Daboll, you get the horns.
It sure is
I’m factoring that into the equation, he’s still leaps and bounds better than Bowe.
The precedent that you're not willing to massively overpay
For a position that, at the end of the day, isn’t all that important?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
I do often wonder about that
He HAS consistently produced, regardless of QB. And on the rare occasions Cassel was slinging the ball around decently (and it DID happen sometimes) Bowe absolutely tore people up.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
He looked all right in a couple other games
But yeah, SEA would be the standard.
If that Matt Cassel showed up every game we wouldn’t be talking about QBs.
And yes, Bowe was ridiculous that game. It does make one wonder what would happen with a QB who plays like a QB every single game.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
I think
Cassel’s first year here pretty much stunted what he could do. The year before he was for all intents and purposes a first year starter on a team that could help the first year starter QB. We moved him into a situation that really sucked for any QB, especially one without much real game time. A proven vetran would have done better, but not by much. By the end of his first year here Cassel was probably pretty rattled. That is probably one of the reasons that Matt tends to do very well when we run the hurry up or no huddle offense. It doesn’t give him the time to think about all the new and interesting ways in which BRich will try to get his QB killed.
I think we missed a turn back there somewhere...
Ha! Nice...
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
that's funny
It doesn’t give him the time to think about all the new and interesting ways in which BRich will try to get his QB killed
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
We are so in agreement here it ain't even funny.
Just makes me sad that, that ‘real’ QB won’t be here any time soon. Which of course, is why it’s so much fun to salivate at the idea of a healthy Manning, or an RGIII.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
Also may need to factor in offense
with a new OC almost every year he has still been getting his numbers. That has to count for something
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
Then you have to let it account for Cassel as well
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
So Bowe gets a pass for having different OC but Cassel doesnt?
sounds great
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Not that crazy. Bowe has produced his numbers may have been able to be a bit better with more consistancy but Cassel is a different story. You cannot tell me Cassel would have better vision, a stronger arm, make better decisions and so on if the same OC was in place. Bowe has made things happen regardless while Cassel has not. Cannot compair the same. Call me wrong all day wont change the fact that Cassel is who he is and Bowe is who he is
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
"Locks him into KC?"
How does a one year tender lock him to anything? I’m going against the grain, as per usual, and predicting Carr gets the tag. Bowe gets a new deal.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Umm...
It locks him into KC for this coming season.
I would be completely in favor of locking him up long term, but I don’t think that’s what Pioli will do. I’d sign Bowe and Carr long-term.
Don't understand
how prolonging his contract situation until next year is going make things any easier with Albert & Dorsey hitting the market too
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Albert should be extended this year
If we follow our pattern of extending the players they deem most important a year early.
Dorsey is probably going to walk.
I don’t think it is better to prolong his contract situation, but they may do it, unfortunately to give Baldwin a chance to develop and give them an excuse to let Bowe walk as well.
ny thinking is that both Bowe AND Carr are "getting paid" ... big money, and rightfully so
the real question is going to be … who pays it? what team?
in my mind, no reason we can’t or shouldn’t re-sign both … I think Bowe, Carr, Hunt and Pioli need to all sit down with a marriage counselor and work it all out in a nice, casual manner with some herbal tea :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
faster? so what?
Dex is faster too, but he isn’t a cover guy and can’t tackle … screw “cheaper is better” … it has NO bearing on which is the best player among the two choices of Carr and Routt
one on one Carr is so much better it’s not even worth considering
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Agree
The Chiefs have no excuses for not getting each (Bowe/Carr) back and on the field in some way for ’12.
I don't know that I can agree.
I’m not sure Carr is that much better. Furthermore, if he’s asking for a ridiculous number for his contract, which all the reports I’m hearing are saying he is, then even the slight downgrade that Routt might be is a better decision.
I love Carr, but if he’s being unreasonable with us, and can get paid somewhere else, more power to him. I just don’t want a massive downgrade at the position. IOW, there better be a very good cornerback there, whether it’s Carr or Routt.
I agree.
I’d love to keep Carr and, as underpaid as he’s been so far in his career, if he can swindle a team into giving him a terrible contract he should go for it. But I would prefer it be with another team in that case.
No matter what, he’s a great story and I’ll be rooting for him wherever he ends up (within reason). But, purely hypothetically, if he wants 14 million per year and Routt will take 7, we should absolutely go the Routt route.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Cheap Routt>Expensive Carr
/Heh, cheap routt, expensive carr
"There will be increased competition at every position, including the quarterback position".-Scott Pioli
by severn58 on Feb 16, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I will alway rec terrible puns.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Do nothing
We all know Bowe is a talent, but he is only as good as the peeps around him. We have two QB’s going into this year both can get the ball to him. The chiefs should go all out this year bring in R. Moss and T Owens to back up him and Baldwin now they have to perform or they will be on the bench . These two might be getting up in age but they are great physicals speciman in football terms. They can all ways put the franchise tag on him.
I'd put Bowe before Jackson
But I think, like Welker and Wallace, there is no way he hits the market. Pioli will either franchise or sign Bowe and keep him in KC. So that leaves Jackson as the top "get’ in this next FA period.
Just keep matriculatin' the ball down the field, boys.
If people are saying Bowe is #4 then we can kep him cheap!
Low ball him Pioli!!!
#Idonnotactuallyendorsethisidea.
##WhyanyonewouldlistentomeforfootballadviceIhavenoidea.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
agreed!
#neverevereverlissentonate
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What's with everybody hashtagging everything today, anyway?
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
You understand
#nateisanidiot
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 16, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions
Bowe would definitely be higher up
if he actually had more accurate balls thrown his way. He barely had any real action this past season.
Stanzi: "If you don't love it, leave it! USA #1"
Would love to see
A full season of Orton & Bowe. Methinks it could get Brandon Lloyd-esque
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
Methinks
You’re fat, ugly, and your mother dresses you funny.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Bowe > Jackson
Similar numbers with WAY worse QB play.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Age is the biggest factor imo on why Bowe is better
19 months younger, and with WR’s age is a big deal, they can fall of a cliff fast.
True story
Also more versatile, and there’s something to be said for being the toughest receiver to bring down in the league.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
I agree
But, I also think (this season excluded) that Jackson made some tough catches in traffic that Bowe doesn’t pull down. I also think that Jackson was, overall, (again, this season excluded) a better hands guy. Now, this is just my first thought. I’ve not backed it up with stats.
To the cloud!
In accordance with the prophecy
I am the 1%
I think Bowe is better than Wallace too...
Wallace is fast….but i dont think his body of work is better than Bowes…
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Not just saying this because I am a KC fan but
I might have Wallace at 1a and Bowe at 1b. Wallace stretches the field in a different way. Most of Bowe’s 20+ were catch and run. He is one of the best in the NFL at breaking tackles. He broke 10 tackles to lead the NFL last year.
I was going to write a FP with the top WR’s on the market. One thing that scares me is the Bills/Johnson contract. I think he is going to want a bunch of money and the Bills will pay him. If that deal is done before KC signs Bowe then we might just have to FT him. I think Stevie is going want a contract like Holmes 5 year $45mil deal. If he gets that then there is NO way Bowe doesnt want more!
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Nix
isn’t going to shell out the bucks for Johnson. The rag-tag bunch they run in Buffalo, I know Gailey could just develop some other late rounder of UDFA to fill out the starter position in the offense he runs. Buffalo doesn’t necessarily fork out the cash, can’t see them doing it
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Been writing checks like no business
The families of Tamba Hali, Derrick Johnson, Jamaal Charles, & Brandon Flowers all would like to say hello. From vacation.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Buffalo's payroll has been consistently higher than KC's.
#knowledgeispower
#twitterisgay
Likely because they’ve had to pay higher amounts to attract talent to town. Plus with all those shitty draft picks from the Juaron era this doesn’t surprise me
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
So you're wrong, then
Buffalo doesn’t necessarily fork out the cash
Thanks.
For homegrown talent
they’re M.O. is to let them walk. Name some players other than Kyle Williams they’ve opened their wallets for? Ralph Wilson is cheaper than Clark Hunt, face it
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
Keyword: homegrown
They overpaid on a trending QB who took an epic nosedive performance wise
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Feb 16, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
IDK, I'd have to look
They gave McGee a big contract, and they drafted him. The counter to that, is how many ‘great’ players have they let walk? May just be that they’ve drafted poorly.
"Just?"
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
3 years is forever in football
And frankly, it’s ridiculous to bash him for being cheap then turn around and bash him for taking a chance.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
The notion of it being 60 million is silly as well.
In purely guaranteed money its nowhere near 60 million, remember all contracts are incentive laden.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 16, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Bud
I’m talking about the Bills owner giving Fitzpatrick $60 mil last season.
Ahhhh I see
Sorry, pulled an all nighter on a paper. Need to get some sleep…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
They are switching D's
They just gave Fitz a bunch of money and the town pretty much threw a parade when they got TO. You dont give you QB that much money then let his best target walk. Yes the dude is an idiot with his celebrations but at least he is getting into the EZ. That fan base would go nuts if they let him walk because they were cheap and Nix knows it… Also it isnt just about handing out a contract it is about keeping a good player that could be great if he gets his head right.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Objectively subjective fan
Most likely, Jackson will be the top free agent WR because of his size, production (who was throwing the ball to him) and the fact that he was already franchise-tagged last year. With that being said, I would definitely want Bowe on my team – the guy has been consistently good for the most part with a circus of qbs, better run blocker, and his YAC speaks for itself. Add on top of that the facts he is young and home-grown makes it even more likely he will stay as a Chief.
Bowe gets the franchise tag
You know why? Because Pioli can’t risk him leaving, because Pioli’s reputation is tied to how good Cassel looks on the field, and in the stat column. Bowe makes Cassel look better, which in turn makes Pioli look better.
Carr is more valuable to the team, but I worry that we are at a much greater risk of losing him.
by DoNotAlterWalter on Feb 16, 2012 11:32 AM CST reply actions
The more I read about Routt...
They more comfortable I am with replacing Carr with him.
Sounds like Routt isn’t a #1 CB…which is fine, we have Flowers. Routt excelled as a #2 CB next to Asomugha. Seems like the Raiders just made another bad move and tried to make a #2 CB #1 by paying him like a #1…even though he’s not at that level. I think Routt would be great playing opposite Flowers.
Agreed
But I’d still rather keep Carr.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
How is Routt in man vs. zone?
Looked, at least to my eyes, like Romeo asked Flowers and Carr to play A LOT of man-to-man this year with little help at times. Seemed like a big advantage to be able to do that.
by polodude017 on Feb 16, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
He was good across from Asomugha in the Raiders man-heavy scheme.
But, again, when left in single coverage on the opposing team’s best receiver with zero help all year, he didn’t fare as well.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Fallacy.
Pioli’s reputation is tied to whether we start winning playoff games and championships.
Cassel’s success in particular doesn’t matter.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Eh I dunno
Whether we start winning playoff games and championships is directly tied to Cassel’s success. If Cassel doesn’t succeed, the team doesn’t succeed.
Pioli’s job is to stock this team with good players. The most important position is QB. Therefore, if the team (ie Cassel) fails, Pioli will take the brunt of the criticism. IMO it would be deserved.
by TheScootness on Feb 16, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
Not really.
Another QB can be brought in if we can find one, that takes Cassel’s job. Cassel ends up riding the pine, new QB does better, we win.
Nobody goes, “Ooooh, we won the AFC Championship game this year, but Pioli failed because Cassel got replaced!”
So, no.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Ok I gotcha
My premise was that Pioli didn’t find a replacement and that Cassel was the starter again and ultimately failed.
In my mind, if Pioli does find a replacement and he performs better than he’s doing his job. Cassel wasn’t a mistake at the time, but it’s time to move up a notch and everyone can see it. Pioli is only failing if he fails to address the obvious.
by TheScootness on Feb 16, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
That's exactly what I'm saying.
People keep saying Pioli’s entire career is somehow staked to Cassel and he’ll just stubbornly go down with the Cassel ship because of it.
It makes no sense.
Pioli’s rep will be tied to whether he can make the Chiefs a winner. Get us some playoff wins. Get us to the super bowl.
Nobody’s going to give a shit if it’s not done with Cassel driving the bus, or somebody else.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
I think that people assume that Pioli has some blind faith in Cassel
And will continue to let him be the sole starting QB without any competition. While I don’t particularly care for some of the things Pioli does, I have to assume he’s smarter than this.
He sees the same things all of us do. He has to realize that Cassel is not quite cutting it. If he doesn’t address the problem this season or (God forbid) next season then I’d agree with the theory that he’s “stubbornly going down with the Cassel ship” and needs to be fired himself.
by TheScootness on Feb 16, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
He might be the #4 FA WR
but he’s #1 in my heart
3 guys with great QB's throwing to them and then Bowe gets .......well whatever we had at QB
What is Welker without brady = ?
V-jack with Phillip = ?
Wallace without Ben = ?
Bowe without a QB = still a beast
There's also the fact that
Bowe and Welker have put up similar numbers over the same span. And that’s with Welker having a better ALL WORLD QB and not being the lone target for much of his career. Where as Bowe has been the Only target for much of his tenure and had Larry, Curly, and Mo throwing to him.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
I heard some Saints fan say they heard on local sports radio in LA that if they don't get Colston taken care of, Bowe is an option.
Went to LSU, playing half of your games indoors, having that Brees fella throwing to you. I dont think he’d put up 2010 numbers since they spread the ball around so well, but I could see him thriving in that system.
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
Yeah, I have no idea what their cap space is.
Just a dude in a fantasy league of mine, said they discussed Bowe and what he brings on a show a couple of days ago.
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
by CharlieConway on Feb 16, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
They have a huge problem with cap space
And Bowe will probably get a bigger contract than Colston, so I don’t see him going there unless he takes a discount…which doesn’t seem likely.
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Never going to happen
But it would be so nice to actually have a QB.
by Eastcoastransplant on Feb 16, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
you think the Saints aren't going to re-sign Brees? really?
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Takes care of a couple of needs, without downgrading a whole lot from Bowe to Colston.
I think most Chiefs would love that. Saints on the other hand….
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
by CharlieConway on Feb 16, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
yea i thought it would be a funny convo
bowe is gonna get top WR money and they are trying to figure out if it is gonna be Colston or Nicks unless Brees is in the market for giving discounts.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Welker is definitively ahead of any of those guys.
He’s older and he has a game that doesn’t fit well in all offenses. He’s great for the Pats with Brady, but I don’t know if he’s that good in any other situation. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great player and I like him, but if I’m a team looking to sink money into a FA WR, I’d probably go with the other three over him.
In my opinion they are all really interchangeable depending on what facet of the game you want to stress. Welker doesn’t fit it some offenses, he’s older and smaller. Jackson has off the field issues. Wallace isn’t overly developed as a route runner. Bowe has the dropsies sometimes.
He has the best QB in NFL history throwing to him. He's not that good
and he dropped that pass in the 4th that would have probably lead to a NE super bowl victory.
Ok, I think you're taking my point a little too far.
Your second point should really have no bearing here. He’s probably got the best hands of the four.
by polodude017 on Feb 16, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
it wasn't a perfect pass ... so maybe Brady isn't "the best" huh?
come on, man … Welker is VERY good
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"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
If you want to base his career on one play
Then Yes, Welker sucks.
but it hit him in the hands
where as Bowe had 4 steelers around a poorly thrown ball.
but everyone was blasting Bowe for that.
Agreed, if we want to break down those two individual plays
Welker sucks and Bowe shouldn’t have gotten as much blame.
If the perception of the two is that Welker has better hands
It is accurate.
No that Bowe is looked at and judged off that one play and
Welker is given the “but look at his body or work”
Who is judging Bowe on one play?
I love the guy, but I have about 10 drops of his etched in my brain.
not the drop his effort
i am to lazy to look (ESPN is 1 i know), but i have seen some columnists use that play as an example of why he is not worth top WR money and we let him walk.
He got a lot of that rep early in his career from Haley
Who had him on the pine. I think he has outgrown the ‘lazy’ label myself.
Yea i just think it is funny.
If people still want to sleep on him fine. I think with a legit QB he would be putting up insane numbers.
So, what's the deal with Baldwin
does this kid have his shit together?
IMO that should really have little bearing on Bowe's situation.
by polodude017 on Feb 16, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
we'll find out in due time if Baldwin has it together or not
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Outside of that San Diego game on Halloween, he wasnt consistant at all.
But on offense last year, nothing was consistant. A rookie WR, a lockout, a dumb mistake that cost him several games, 3 different QBs, 2 different Head Coaches. Quite the whirlwind.
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
by CharlieConway on Feb 16, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
I believe with the new CBA, a player can only get the tag once.
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
by CharlieConway on Feb 16, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
reading sports nation RECIEVER ROULETTE they have on the side on the home page today.
sounds like they can tag a guy twice, when you read about vincent jackson they said he was tagged and they could tag him again?
they also said bowe was asking for santonio holmes type money at 5 years, 45 million, 24 million gaurnateed. thats not bad at all when you think about it for a guy like bowe?
well, there's the Franchise Tag and another type of tag
I believe the Franchise Tag can be used only once per player … the other is a “restricted” type
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
when you say the other tag, can we use both on bowe and not lose him for 2 years?
did you read that reciever roulette? what do you think of that kind of deal if thats what he wants? fair?
no, you use one or the other
franchise tag he stays for a year and is free agent again next year … the other tag is a restricted, but he can sign with another team anyway if they match or beat your offer (but you get a draft pick in return)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
ok, reading that made me think of this.
lets say we have every intention of signing bowe ( or can we franchise him and use the other tag on another guy like carr? ) if we can do that and intend on losing one or the other (hopefully neither) I sure hope they use that tag on one where we atleast get value in a pick in return, if they have no intention of signing him low ball his number knowing another team will pick it up.
can we do that?
could we use the exclusing and low ball hoping someone makes a bigger offer and get 2 firsts?
I would do that with both bowe and carr that might be our way of moving up for RGIII
well, I have no clue of their intention ... but if all he's asking is $5 Mil/year they'd be insane not to get it done
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
maybe something like this?
year 1 12 million
year 2 12 million
your gauranteed 24 is already up
year 3 9 million
year 4 6 million
year 5 6 million
45 million 5 years 24 million gauranteed.
ASTQB's Rankings
1. Mesean Jackson
2. Dwayne Bowe
3. Vincent Jackson
4. Mike Wallace
Don’t think Welker is worth a damn without Brady.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:00 PM CST reply actions
Miami Dolphins
2005 – 29 REC / 434 YDS / 15.0 AVG / 0 TD
2006 – 67 REC / 687 YDS / 10.3 AVg / 1 TD
Everything else has been since he went to NE in 2007.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Welker is worth way more to NE than he would be for most any other team
They utilize him in a way that maximizes his productivity.
That doesn’t mean he isn’t worth a damn. For instance, what they ask him to do, he would do much better than MeSean.
I think Mesean is the most exciting player in the league. Just vastly underpaid and knew that his career could be over with one big hit.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
All about perception
had he played the contract thing different he wouldnt have gotten Mesean. but hey guys make mistakes If wallace is #2 in FA Mesean is “Wallace +” yet drops because of attitude. Philly may get him on the cheap due to PR.
Right, Pats know how to use him but Brady is accurate enough to hit a 5’5’’ man in stride among a bunch of defensive monsters. It’s crazy watching how small the holes are when he passes to Welker. Not too many QBs in the league who can consistently hit the small guys.
Cassel has a 6’2’’ monster and a 6’5’’ monster and still can’t hit ’em.
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by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
right
and that’s why the Patriots won the Super Bowl!
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What's that got to do with the price of rice?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
I'll trade you a bag of rice for your nice catch of several red salmon ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
ie, Brady's very good, yes ... but Welker is also very good
ie, good WRs help out any QB, even the good ones
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ah...
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
not arguing that at all!
a lot of somethings
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
we do have some somethings, we just need more somethings
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Don’t matter if you can’t touch him.
I think you need to rewatch that ’07 Cal/Oregon game.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
ha!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Cassel would be lucky to pass to THA1
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by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
why would you want a whiny, me-first, non-team player like that on the Chiefs?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Because he's an incredible talent who can single handedly win games
He might have the Peyton Hillis “me first” attitude, but he backs his shit up
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 16, 2012 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
backs it up with what, sulking?
whining? not playing to the best of his abilities because he didn’t get his brand new, shiny contract like he wanted?
great team player there, huh!
no thanks …
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
He quits during a game
I dont care how much talent you have, take that shit somewhere else. TO had talent to and teams were better off with him packing
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
yup, same with Moss
talent w/o effort is nothing
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Talent is the most important thing in professional sports.
It’s this attitude that results in having a roster filled with such game breakers as Urban and Lance Long.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Did you seriously use the Heat as your example? They made it the Finals their first year together and are obliterating teams this year.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
They should of won the finals with no problem
I believe what is trying to be said is just because you fill a locker with talent, doesnt mean it will all gel. Chemistry is just as important
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I’ll take the talent and will deal with tough losses in the Finals as opposed to hoping a crew of “Right 53ers” can scrape out a playoff appearance.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
They already talking about which of the 3 gonna bail
cause they cant afford to keep all three at the money and pay the other 9-12 guys
I thought Battier, Haslem and others signed up to play for free?
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
Finals or right 53??
Basketball or football? eagles didnt go anywhere
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
That really supports your arguement
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 16, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
if talent is the most important thing in professional sports then the 2011 Broncos should not have won a single game with Tebow at QB
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
They have a lot of talent on defense
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
why yes, yes they do!
which supports the argument that it’s a team game, a team sport … it’s NEVER one guy
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Because he's the most explosive player in the NFL
I think he’ll chill out when he finally gets paid.
He was getting a few hundred grand putting up insane numbers taking dome smashing hits all the time. Did you see Dunta Robinson try to kill him?
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
Philly has a roster full of "explosive" players
Vick is the most explosive QB in the league, Well maybe not with CAM. but you get the point.
well, see ... there it is
Carr was putting out even when he wasn’t getting paid … a whole lot of players do that: they earn their future huge paydays by going all out on every play, and letting the poker chips (money) fall where they may … it they play hard AND have the talent, they’ll get the big bucks w/o sulking and whining … that kind of “bad attitude” is what costs games, and nobody wants that kind of player around, regardless of talent
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
How quickly you forget everything Desean did for Eagles. And how do they repay his hardwork and sacrifice…by going OUTSIDE the organization, throwing crazy cash to everyone but the man who had been there.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
thats the biz dont hate the player hate the game
Philly did what every team does. His mistake was thinkin ghe was special.
not the point here
is Jackson a team player of a me-first player?
does he want the TEAM to win or HIMSELF to make tons of money?
if he’d kept his mouth shit and played his hardest all year he’d likely already have his payday …
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Just like Carr already has his payday?
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I think Desean will get paid as well.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Different situation
He said “LIKELY”….
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
What you dont see about Jackson is in the locker room
He might be someone that brings up a red flag to give high dollars.. Why invest in something that might cause problems ( LJ)
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Do you see MeSean in the locker room? His teammates seem to like him
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 16, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
NO but I am guessing by how he gives up on the field
and that the team doesnt seem to want to pay him, there must be an issue
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
They already said they were going to franchise him
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 16, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
The Jackson case should be the latest example for the players of how football is an unpalatable business for them. They run the risk of career-threatening, even life-threatening, injury. Yet they have little financial certainty and a minimal amount of freedom. They are subject to a disciplinary system in which their appeals are heard by the same person — Goodell — who levies the original penalties. And after their careers are over, far too many of them die early, evidenced again this week by the death of former star wideout Freddie Solomon, who was only 59 years old.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Ok
So what about everyone else who doesnt cry when they arent getting paid yet? I understand they want to get paid before the can suffer a career ending injury but there is a way about doing it
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Forte did it the “right way” and ended up blowing out his knee. He’s now going to get a lowball contract. Why show such respect for the owners/GMs when they obviously don’t care about the players.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
I could give examples of players that did do it the right way and were paid well
you either act like a child or act like a man. The money is going to come off of just talent regardless, but to act like a bitch because it isnt happening when you want it to is not right
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions
I agree it’s not as fun for the fans. But from the players perspective, they get one, maybe two chances to get a contract. Jackson was tremendously underpaid through his rookie deal and vastly outperformed it.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
so what about players who underperform and are overpaid even for a rookie contract?
I understand your point but it works both ways … ultimately, if the guy is talented enough and works within the system, the system will take care of him
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
If the contract is not guaranteed, these types of guys get cut all the time.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Underperforming players get cut
See Stanford Routte
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
OK?
So his rookie contract is “underpaying”..When its up either sign with Eagles or sign elsewhere.
Doesnt give him a reason to stomp his feet like a child. He signed a contract and now has to honor it. The owners are pieces of work themselves, and the players know this. But as a MAN, you are required to act a certain way. Hell, he is a role model to some kid in Philly. That is showing the kid, if you dont get what is fair, throw a fit.
There is other ways of handling it, thats all
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
Players don't need to give a shit about being role models
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
True
And Mesean actually is a good one. He’s leading the whole anti-bully thing and has been praised many times for his efforts.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
and sorry
they are role models automatic. They dont have to give a shit about it but the ones that do get paid more at the end.
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
But he put the team first
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Feb 16, 2012 1:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Always take care of you and yours first
but does he have to act like a bitch during the process?
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Man a lot of hate. Isn’t the GM acting like a bitch by throwing money around like a drunken sailor at EVERYONE except your #1 WR who had multiple 1,000-yard seasons and single-handedly won games.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
He had a great 2009 season
been declining ever since.
2008: 62 rec/912 yards/4 TDS
2009: 62 rec/1156 yards/12 TDs
2010: 47 rec/1056 yards/8 TDs
2011: 58 rec/961 yards/4 TDs
TDs are total TDs not reception TDs. Also tough to quantify his field position contributions either through his punt returns or punters kicking out of bounds in fear.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
So what's your point?
Reception TDs..
9 (2009)
6
4 (2011)
Your statement of “he’s declining every year” is overly harsh. He is still a top flight WR and return man and has proven that over his career.
Even with his overplayed drama, he still put up great numbers.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Your statement of “he’s declining every year” is overly harsh. He is still a top flight WR and return man and has proven that over his career.
Even with his overplayed drama, he still put up great numbers.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Dude has been a stud every year since coming into the league
He had VY for part of the year and still almost put up 1000 yards
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Not sure where we are going with these arguments here
I dont think his talent is in question. I said he acts like a little bitch who doesnt get her way, therefor, I can understand being sketchy about giving him longterm deal.
Are you saying it is ok to not even finish running your routes on national television and give up on your team just to wave the finger at your GM and Owner? Just because he has talent and was underpaid? Not sure what the hell we are even talking about anymore
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
I just will never understand how many APers consistently side with the GMs and Owners.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
Not siding with them
They set the system up for themselves not the players whining about it now does no good.
I am not sure if there is a side anyone is picking
The crybaby shit that goes on with these players, especially WR, is a part of the game I can do with out.
Not sure where that says I side with the GM and owners? But it is the Owners money and he has a right to take everything into account before investing in a player.
It is no different then teams passing on players with talent but character issues.
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 2:44 PM CST up reply actions
I just think this particular case has a lot more to do with a undersized, fragile WR as opposed to a “diva” WR.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Ok so why are we arguing?
If you are saying he is undersized and fragile, shouldnt there be reason to delay the signing?
I understand players want to get paid before something happenes that they cant, but Owners want to make sure they pay someone that doesnt cause issues, stops playing once they get money, or gets hurt and becomes useless.
Its a grimy sport for both sides, but acting like a child instead a grown man is something that shouldnt be tolerated
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions
first priortiy isnt always the easiest to get the deal done
there is other things that factor in with why he isnt getting paid. I honestly feel they should of but now since he displayed what a jackass he is, I could give a fuck less. If he would of kept his cool, he would of looked like the good guy in all this
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
awwwww
the poor players. Not like they are Jews and thrown into a concentration camp… they can use their college education to get a real job if they want. oh wait……………………………………………..
Yeah.. I just hate when people feel pity for players
Or when players say “i got kids to feed” I feel like hitting them in the face with a bag full soap bars.
Point is, they don’t have to play. They aren’t being forced into these “bad situations”. They get paid millions…. they take on any risk involved.
Might be a fun guy to party with
who knows why his teammates like him. He might be a stand up guy. The fact we do know is that he gave up on the field, cried, and Eagles for some reason dont seem to wanna pay him yet
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
People say that about Dex
but oh wait, we run him with draw plays up the middle.
I wonder it Cassel or Whatever QB
just shouts at the line, “Dex-Draw, Dex-draw, Hut.”
I wonder what the actual % of that play “working” getting more that 4 yards.
I really like Bowe and believe that his stats would be much better with a better QB.
I can recall some drops obviously but I also recall play after play where the passes to him were way off. He’s also the type of receiver where if more of his catches were in stride, his stats would sky rocket. Bowe’s ability for yards after catch are awesome. Just imagine his total yards if he was getting his passes in stride from a Maning, Brady or Rogers.
If Mesean played in a nationally televised primetime game every week
He’d probably put up about 2,500 yards and 25 TDs.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:13 PM CST reply actions
I think you have that backwards
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Fool always shows up when the lights are bright.
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
perhaps, but fool don't show up the rest of the time, and that's the problem
if fool HAD showed up more often this past year instead of being a selfish, whiny, crybaby me-first and the gimme-gimmes his team might have won more games …
just a thought, yanno?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
and your point?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
And was no point
but if you figure it out, let me know
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'd welcome Bowe back, but I think he wants a big market team for the Bowe Show.
My 2 biggest issues with him are his inabilities to get open and drops at game difference making opportunities. No doubt he has been a focal point for our offense at the receiver position, but I have not been overwhelmed by his efforts. the drafting of JB makes me think that Scotty Pioli isn’t all that sold with him.
i know someone posted about putting the non-exclusive tag on Carr
but if it is put on Bowe i wonder if someone would be moe willing to bite and give up picks.
No one is giving two firsts for Bowe.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Why?
According to AP, he’s the 3rd best WR in the NFL.
If Bowe thinks he is the 3rd best WR in the league, the best case scenario he plays one more year in KC (on the tag).
No way does he get a long term deal that makes him one of the 2 or 3 top paid WR in the league.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Yup.
Are we sure that you cannot give a franchise tag more than once? I looked around on the interwebs and couldn’t find that anywhere.
Supposed to be part of the CBA going forward
Any event i know no one is giving up 2 1st but the exclusive lets the agent shop his guy for a deal. I think that would give hi his value and then the FO could decide if he is worth it if not get compensation or work our a trade.
Do you have a link to this?
I have seen you say it a few times that it is part of the new CBA, but I have yet to find that fact online, and would think it would’ve been fairly major news. Not saying you’re wrong, just would like verification.
I do remember hearing that they no longer could do it, but even if it was an option it never used to happen for a reason.
You had to pay the player 120% the value of the franchise tag in year two. (based on average of the top 5 players at position or 120% of you previous years salary (whichever is higher).
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
WalterFootball has the FA WR's ranked:
1) Mike Wallace
2) Dwayne Bowe
3) Vincent Jackson
4) Wes Welker
5) Stevie Johnson
6) Brandon Lloyd
7) Marques Colston
8) Desean Jackson
9) Mario Manningham
10) Reggie Wayne
sounds about right Desean might could argue going higher
Due to the fact you can put him back to take a punt if you need big plays.
People LOVE Brandon Lloyd. Isn’t he like 35?
6 1st round draft picks, 2 Super Bowl Champions and counting
by Another Successful Tedford QB on Feb 16, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
He's 30.
Considering how late he bloomed, he should still have at least a few good years left in him.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
I don't get all the Wallace love, dude has 1 route
Must be because he’s a youngster.
"There will be increased competition at every position, including the quarterback position".-Scott Pioli
No
it was go deep and catch this.. Moss cant run a route for shit
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
Gotta have a QB that can get him the ball on his one route
These guys can sign anywhere (barring being tagged), so I’d put a few of those guys over Wallace because they’re more “complete” receivers. Wallace wouldn’t do a whole lot here, or say Cleveland. He’d just be running in a straight line, fast, but just out for a Sunday stroll.
"There will be increased competition at every position, including the quarterback position".-Scott Pioli
I agree
Just saying some receivers dont need much more then one route. I havent caught on to his hype myself but he is a deep threat for sure.
Does anything do good in Cleveland? Manning would be shit in Cleveland
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
I think Manningham is gonna be the steal of this WR class if he leaves NY.
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
Absolutely, but he played a big chunk of it injured, and then Cruz's emerge didnt help.
But with his speed, experience in the slot, I think he’s gonna make his next employer happy. I just hope it’s not in SF.
Oh, man. It's my mom. She looks pissed.
When they make these list
are the taking talent or the overall picture?
I mean, age is a big one of course. Then you have a guy like Desean Jackson who stop running routes in a baby like protest. He is talented, but shows that if things dont go his way, he will throw a fit. That drama queen act would make me think he it would effect spot on list
1. Vincent Jackson
2. Mike Wallace
3. Dwayne Bowe
4. Desean Jackson
5. Wes Welker
Twitter - @bkissel7
Jackson is the only issue I have
talent yes, asshole yes
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
assholes are still allowed to catch TD's
I just want the dude out of our division.
Twitter - @bkissel7
ooohhhh
got ya, colston should be in top 5 consideration too. if NO wasn’t so loaded on offense his #’s would be much higher
Twitter - @bkissel7
You gotta think though
out of this list, seems Bowe does most with less. Colston is good dont get me wrong, but I wonder how good Bowe would be with an Elite QB
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
do NOT go there, young man!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
absolutely ... name your terms, homeslice!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
you realize it's gonna be hard for you to make shit up describing just how insanely awesome Iam
you, Sir, are on!
and I look forward to your amazing fanpost, long and full of shit win for yours truly (huge grin)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
good point ...
… I see it a lot on SBNKC ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
yanno, with my background I should be doing some of that ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'll email in a bit
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
my cpu is going crazy
lets set it up. need someone that has done the technical side
Twitter - @bkissel7
sent
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Think about it
Look at those receivers Manning has made look really good. I dont think they would even play if Cassel was QB.
by TheScreenName on Feb 16, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
Bowe is number one
Imagine what bowe would do with a real qb, a qb that didn’t stare him down the whole time and actually read a defense.
by Chiefsdodgerslakers2415 on Feb 16, 2012 2:31 PM CST reply actions
baldwin slides to the 1, breaston to 2, can find a wr in fa or draft.....
there are legit reasons why they could move on without bowe….
losing carr on the other hand makes no sense to me.
Pay Brandon Carr/ Pay Colquitt
Team Colquitt
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