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Trade Scenario with DT Glenn Dorsey

With all the talk and discussions going on, I had one that works for us and the Carolina Panthers. The team is now coached by Ron Rivera, an old Defensive Coordinator from San Diego who is pretty familiar with Glenn Dorsey. The Panthers really need a big time run stuffing DT for the defense, which is a 4-3, and most agree that Dorsey would flourish in the 4-3. Personally, when I see folks talking trade with Dorsey's name involved, it seems to me the trade value is really low for him.

As a former top 5 pick and starter since drafted, Glenn has plenty of value. A recent poster, MN I believe, showed him to be the #2 overall against the run while playing out of his comfort zone as an inside DT. With a really high first round pick in this upcoming draft and maybe not interested in bringing a young guy who takes a couple of years to become a top pro, Ron maybe would be involved with a trade for Glenn. Yes, a couple of maybes in this scenario, but Dorsey is worth a first round draft pick and most of his contract dollars have already been paid by the Chief's. Sure we might have to sweeten the deal some, but I expect Dorsey to leave next year in FA anyway, so trade him while we can.

There are 2 players worth trading up for not named RG3, as in the top prospects at OT and CB. I think Carr is done here, chasing those big dollars in FA so we could find ourselves in need for another CB, so why not the best one in this years draft? Claiborne is a young stud and his first round dollars would certainly be less than paying top FA money. The other is Kalil, who has been touted as the best OT in some time. He was better at USC than the OT that Dallas took last year from USC who played very well as a rookie.

FA could very well dictate our needs in this draft, and replacing Carr, should he leave, is something that needs to be considered. I believe Bowe is gone as well and was already planned for with the Baldwin pick. Pioli keeps us guessing in the drafts, thank God, otherwise it would not be as much fun as this endless speculation of what he is going to do. If you remember last year about this time, Scotty addressed the idea of drafting to replace players who might leave in the future. One thing for sure is that players move on. Some retire or get cut, others chase the dollars in FA, and some get traded. As ever, I bleed red, Go Chief's!!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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I think Rivera is gonna transition to a 3-4

That is the rumor around here (yes i am a KC fan in NC). He is gonna do like the patriots (i guess) when they went from 4-3 to 3-4 and start to gather personnel for the 3-4 and use both this year and make it permanent later.

by km230015 on Feb 15, 2012 7:50 AM CST reply actions  

No, you had it right the first time.

The Pats moved from a 4-3 to a 3-4 under Belichcik. A couple of years ago they talked of moving back to a 4-3, but they never really ended up doing it.

"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan

by MtHammer on Feb 15, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

They used the 4-3 for the majority of the 2011 season.

Belichick had stated that with the lock out stealing almost all of training camps… it was going to be too difficult to install his complex 3-4 scheme… so they played 2011 in a base 4-3. As the season went on the Pats started installing some 3-4 packages, but it was the exception, not the rule.

Belichick has also stated that in 2012 they will be going back to the 3-4 base…. as they will have a true off season to install his chosen base defense.

So… Belichick moved the Pats from a 4-3, to a 3-4, to a mix of 3-4/5-2/2-5 and 4-3 (his complex set), to a straight 4-3 base, and will be going back to a 3-4. Just like everything else Belichick does… it never stays the same. He works around the personel he’s got.

They used to never use TE’s for anything except blocking….and ran a pretty heavy run scheme. Then they started using a few double TE sets and counting on all underneath throws to slot and WR positions. Then (Randy Mos era) they used an offense that incorporated a shit load of down field throws and Welker eating up defenses on the underneath. And starting in 2010, and heavy in 2011… they started playing a double TE set on almost every down… slid Welker out wide a bunch…. and threw the ball to the TE’s like crazy, almost ignoring the deep throws.

They’ve lost a couple Super Bowls now, but I don’t take one single thing away from Belichick’s ability to coach a team. He seems to find a way to win games every year; No matter how much film the other guys have watched, and no matter what personnel he’s got available to him.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Feb 15, 2012 5:36 PM CST up reply actions  

His willingness to change things around according to personnel

Is a big part of his ability to consistently win IMO

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)

by MNchiefsfan on Feb 16, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions  

I am not for or against trading Dorsey but...

I cant see his value being a first round pick. He is going to make right around $6mil this year and is a FA at the end of that. That alone drops his value. The fact that he was 2nd vs the run is great but he was down right pathetic in the pass rush. I know that isnt what a 3-4 DE does in RAC D but even when he was on a pass rush he didnt get any kind of push at all.
If you look at players traded in the last couple of years, find me a non QB that was trade for a 1st round pick. The fact that he was the 5th pick means nothing to other teams. Sea traded Curry for a 7th and a conditional mid round pick, Ted Ginn was traded for a 5th. Granted Curry wasnt good in any area of his game like Dorsey but it shows you that high picks mean nothing.
Lets say you find a team willing to part with a 3rd rounder(might have to be conditional). Is that really worth it for KC to have to find another run stuffing DE? Now this also depends on what you think Dorsey is going to be worth after this season. I dont think he will get a contract worth more than $4mil/yr. That isnt bad for a pure run stuffing staring caliber DT/DE.

What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!

by KSU-Chief on Feb 15, 2012 8:08 AM CST reply actions  

Third might even be a hard one to run with.

Sometimes being solid is good enough. Just because they arent super stars doesnt mean we should trade them.

I think our NT has to be more then just solid. And if we ever get that, Dorsey and TJax could really do some damage. A defense full of solid players, is a hell of a defense.

by TheScreenName on Feb 15, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Not that I'm equating the players but...
find me a non QB that was trade for a 1st round pick

I didn’t even finish reading that sentence before Richard Seymore popped into my head. I’m sure there are other examples.

I’m not saying I disagree with you. Dorsey isn’t going to bring a first rounder in compensation.. maybe a very late 2.. but I doubt that as well. I’d think we’d be most likely to get a 3 for him, unless we used him in a package deal to trade up in the draft.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Feb 15, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree...

It should have stated non QB, non multiple PB player :)
There have been plenty of players traded for a 1st round pick but like you said they are considered to be some of the best at their positions. Roy Williams excluded because Jones was trying to sell seats.

What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!

by KSU-Chief on Feb 16, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions  

I would love to move up for RG3

but, I’m NOT in favor of trading current players… I’d trade 2-3 picks, though

by stagdsp on Feb 15, 2012 8:43 AM CST reply actions  

So Bowe/Carr would be ok?

I mean.. technically they will not be a Chief as contracts are ending

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 15, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions  

no

they ARE current players, at least until March 13th :)

I, of course, want to keep both

by stagdsp on Feb 15, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions  

Hence why I said they will not be Chiefs

They will be FAs

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 15, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

MIGHT be

but, as of now, they are Chiefs :)

and, KC has time and a Franchise tag to ensure that they can continue to be Chiefs

by stagdsp on Feb 15, 2012 9:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Well as of now the only thing that we know is their contracts end

They both MIGHT sign for 8 years at 1$ a year.. haha

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 15, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

ummmmmmmmmmmmm

no

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 15, 2012 10:12 AM CST up reply actions  

It fits into the ''might'' category

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 15, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, and THIS "might" happen too ... in fact, probably sooner than Bowe and Carr signing for $1

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 15, 2012 4:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Why no trading current players?

I certainly see Dorsey as an option because he is bound to be replaced soon.

In accordance with the prophecy
I am the 1%

by SCKSChief on Feb 15, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

IMHO

they have a great young core of players, and are only a few pieces away from being a top tier team… I wouldn’t want to take a step back just to trade up in the draft.

To me, giving up Dorsey, Bowe, Carr, whoever WOULD be a step back, at least in the short term, as the team would have to try and replace them.

Instead, lock in the players they have, maneuver around the draft with picks and future picks…

I would be happy with a trade up that included the 2012 and 2013 1st and 3rd round picks or something like that for RG3… they’d still be able to get OL in the 2nd, and have FA to fill in some other holes.

example:
sign Grubbs, Soliai, Carlson in FA (fills LG, NT and TE needs)

do the trade above for RG3, sign Orton or keep Cassel for one more year

Draft Sanders/Massie or your favorite RT of choice in the 2nd round (fills RT need)

Draft a backup S in the 4th round.

everything else is gravy

by stagdsp on Feb 15, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough

I was just curious. I like the thoughts.

In accordance with the prophecy
I am the 1%

by SCKSChief on Feb 15, 2012 9:52 AM CST up reply actions  

Not a bad game plan stags.

But why stop there? Put a Non exclusive tag on Carr and see if we could get two high picks for him. Sign Routt and Draft a RB plus fill yet another need with additional pick like ILB or DE upgrade that can put pressure on Passer.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Feb 15, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions  

I really like your thinking Stags.

Makes a lot of sense and would build an elite team.

by Mr.Pibbs on Feb 15, 2012 5:57 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't see trading Dorsey being a step back

solid in the run game, major liability in the pass rush. With the league clearly turning into a QB’s league and passing for 5000+ yards becoming a reality we need someone to step up and become the aggressor that can both play against the run and rush the passer.

I feel like letting Dorsey go for a 3rd would be beneficial in the long run. There are FA’s available and guys in house capable of playing that spot just fine IMO.

Dx3: Draft David DeCastro

by shotty on Feb 15, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I have no problem trading Dorsey if the value is right.

I expect though, that nobody is giving a first round pick for Dorsey.

The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.

by saskwatch on Feb 15, 2012 9:35 AM CST reply actions  

Agreed way too steep of a price

If he was a pass rusher, yeah maybe

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 15, 2012 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

If he was a pass rusher

I doubt we’d even be talking about a trade.

Dx3: Draft David DeCastro

by shotty on Feb 15, 2012 10:06 PM CST up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly. NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD TRADE A FIRST ROUND PICK FOR DORSEY. I know sometimes its easy to get drunk on your own players (that is, thinking crazy about how good they are) but still, CMON man. A first round pick for Dorsey, C’MON?????

Name the 16 players traded for a first round pick since 2000. Each player at that time was arguably regarded as one of the best at his position, or darn close. Heres the list

2000 Keyshawn Johnson NYJ/TB
2000 Joey Galloway SEA/DAL
2001 Trent Green STL/KC
2001 Kevin Carter STL/TEN
2002 Ricky Williams NO/MIA
2002 Drew Bledsoe NE/BUF
2003 Laveranues Coles NYJ/WAS
2003 Peerless Price BUF/ATL
2005 Randy Moss MIN/OAK
2006 John Abraham NYJ/ATL
2006 Deion Branch NE/SEA
2008 Jared Allen KC/MIN
2008 Roy Williams DET/DAL
2009 Jay Cutler DEN/CHI
2009 Jason Peters BUF/PHI
2009 Richard Seymour NE/OAK

Do you really think Dorsey would pull close to the same value as some of these players. C’MON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by mcgrathp on Feb 15, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions  

Palmer?

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 15, 2012 2:41 PM CST up reply actions  

I'd be thrilled if they could get a 2nd for Dorsey

and I’d be satisfied with a 3rd.

Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things

by jmcgoblue on Feb 15, 2012 10:21 AM CST reply actions  

A second is what I'd hope for, too

and if they could get Indy or StL to bite for a top 2 pick in the third, I’d be all for it

sooner or later, God'll cut you down...

by nmchief on Feb 15, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions  

thrilled...

…same here…He’s a square peg we’ve been trying to cram into a round hole. His value is dropping. Any 2nd round pick would be great.

by Special K on Feb 15, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I would only trade Dorsey for a 2nd rd pick or better.

And only after signing FA Cambell.
Then if you can trade the 11th pick for a 21st pick and a second, we could have 3 second rd picks. With those picks we could get
1a ILB Hightower
2a OT Sanders
2b TE Fleener
2c CB Minnifield
Also, sign G Grubbs in FA

by Mustang fever on Feb 15, 2012 11:51 AM CST reply actions  

not a chance we get a 2nd for Dorsey, but nice try

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 15, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

not a chance we get Campbell either. They aren't letting him hit the market.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Feb 15, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions  

Jason?

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 15, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

No, not Jason

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Feb 15, 2012 8:20 PM CST up reply actions  

This guy

Calais Campbell

Considered one of the top prospects at his position, and there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell he hits the open market

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Feb 15, 2012 8:21 PM CST up reply actions  

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hell no they don't let him go

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 16, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions  

also, there's very very little chance Grubbs will ever hit the market either.

Ray Rice is the biggest priority for Baltimore, but Grubbs is a very very close second.
I expect that one of them (probably Grubbs because the franchise tag for RB’s is so cheap) will get a long term deal, and the other will get tagged.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Feb 15, 2012 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

They are also working on getting a long term deal done with Flacco

Could take a nice chunk of cap

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 16, 2012 5:50 AM CST up reply actions  

and they'll want to make sure Flacco stays upright ... thus Grubbs stays, my guess

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Feb 16, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions  

If they can afford it of course they want him to stay

Just like Nicks

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 16, 2012 11:49 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe we could trade him to New England for Tom Brady, or maybe we could send him to Green Bay for Clay Mathews and Aaron Rogers. Maybe, we could get Stafford and Megatron for Dorsey. These all seem just as likely as the Panthers sending their first round pick to the Chiefs for Dorsey. Hell, maybe we could get the Panthers to thrown in Cam Newton, but we’d probably have to send Sabby Piscatelli to make that happen, and hell that price is too damn high.

by mcgrathp on Feb 15, 2012 1:21 PM CST reply actions  

Unless they can find an immediate upgrade over him, he'll be donning the Red once again in 2012.

*Aw come on. Don't leave your Uncle T-Bag hanging. - Dr. Funke
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.

by mistamic on Feb 15, 2012 2:10 PM CST reply actions  

why not send Dorsey, Cassel and our 1st for Sam Bradford and their 2nd. They can take RGIII for around 22 million and we take bradford for the remaining 26mil over 4 yrs left on his contract. We not have our QOTF in Bradford and the Rams get RGIII with their 2nd Pick (their QOTF) and still have our 11th pick to get more help.
WIN WIN HERE!!!

by Douglas E. Dart on Feb 19, 2012 9:01 PM CST reply actions  

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