Flowers vs Carr: 1 vs 2??

Okay. After much debate on this issue, and with Carr's re-signing being one of the most talked about topics, I decided to clear up some things. Seems we have a back and forth ballgame on who's better, Carr or Flowers. I personally think Flowers is, but I also can say that Carr is giving him a run for his money. My irritation to this matter is when people look at a site like, lets say Pro Football Focus, and see Carr ranked in top 10 on some categories. Since Flowers name isn't nowhere around, they assume Carr must be better. I mean he is taller! Plus, with us having CBs that maintain their respective side of the field, this ranking must be telling? WRONG! I'll explain without trying to be too lazy to actually back up what I backed up!?!?

Since the " Carr is a top 10 CB on the rankings and Flowers isn't" is mainly coming from the Pro Football Focus page, I will mostly focus on that.

I have always thought of Flowers as the #1 CB and Carr #2. Not by position on field, but more of talent displayed. Apparently, others feel differently about the talent, and who can blame them. Carr has looked solid. One can argue that he isn't under the microscope with the expectations Flowers has, which doesn't have us dissecting him as much. But others can say, doesn't matter, Carr is better. Which they maybe right.

#1 or # 2? LCB or RCB? Does it even matter what side the CBs are on, I mean, WRs line up everywhere. Well apparently to Pro Focus Football, it does.

While doing a breakdown on Asomugha and his comparison to Revis, PFF stated:

Revis, as we know, is integral to what the Jets do, because he allows them to take away the opposition’s best receiver, and to concentrate on the other weapons on offense and roll coverages toward them. Revis does that because he tracks receivers from one side of the field to the other, and even to the slot. Asomugha doesn’t. In fact, Asomugha not only doesn’t track receivers, but he lines up on the right hand side of the defense, the ‘easier’ cornerback position. It’s easier because most passers in the league are right handers, and so naturally throw more to their right, to the left cornerback’s coverage. The only right handed quarterback to pass equally to the left as well as the right is Peyton Manning, everybody else attacks the left cornerback more often.
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The part to mostly focus on is when they mentioned : "Asomugha not only doesn’t track receivers, but he lines up on the right hand side of the defense, the ‘easier’ cornerback position."

Now yes, WRs line up on both sides. But the percentages show, from PFF of course, that QBs mainly throw to their strong side, which for most QBs, is their right. Even if they throw it equal amount of times to each side, seems to be that the right side is their most comfortable, meaning better throws. If they had to roll out of pocket because of pressure, they would rather run to the right. Gives them a more natural throw. If they had to scramble to the left, it would not only be unnatural for them, but probably not a throw they have a high percent of making. Even if the QB rolled out to the right and threw to the left, not only would it be difficult, it has a high chance of being picked. So one would think by percentage wise, the top WR would more times then not, line up on the right side. Now one could say "what about the lefties?" Well, according to PFF, the league is mostly (and very STRONG mostly) right handers.

So can we say Flowers has the more difficult task over the two? Hell yea we can. I mean, PFF set the whole top 10 Carr movement in place and they just proved Flowers has a harder job. And for the record, I am not hating on PFF. They do a crazy job of getting stats straight out of the depths of hell. I am hating on the people who read it without reading the small print ( which I am sure someones comment will find something I overlooked, or underlooked).

Next issue would be the 2 topics in which Carr is top 10 and Flowers doesn't make the cut. For those who haven't read it, there are 2 topics in which Carr placed in top 10 across the league. And despite the fact I will slice up those names, it really is kudos for Carr. He deserves the recognition. I hope we re-sign this man.

First category is completion percentage when teams are going after that CB. Top ten are:

# Name ---------------- TA Rec %Ct

1) Darrell Revis ----- 85 / 35 / 41.2

2) Ike Taylor ---------- 96 / 40 / 41.7

3) Brent Grimes ----- 56 / 25 / 44.6

4) Chris Gamble ----- 60 / 27 / 45.0

5) Sheldon Brown---- 76 / 35 / 46.1

6) Antonio Cromartie- 84 / 39 / 46.4

7) Richard Sherman-- 84 / 24 / 46.4

8) Asante Samuel ---- 61 / 29 / 47.5

9) Joe Haden --------- 85 / 42 / 49.4

10) Brandon Carr----- 79 / 39 / 49.4

Now don't let what I say next seem like I don't think any of these players are great because I do. And also don't let it come off like I think the Pro Bowl (which I'll get to) doesnt have its share of politics and players on this list that may have been snubbed. But, like PFF said, these list aren't too serious either. In fact this is what they said:

Numbers without context can be an awful thing and you can read a lot into what these say, but know that they’re by no means definitive on their own or combined. We always prefer our grading in situations like this where context can be taken into account … a dropped pass when a cornerback was beaten, just what exactly the cornerback did to force an incompletion, and so on.

But numbers are fun, and while we wait for the divisional round of the playoffs (and before Tebow kills the internet), it doesn’t hurt to have a look and make something out of them.

Did ya see where it said a dropped pass when a CB was beaten? Yes I know it happens on both sides of the field. But if the theory is true, then passes going to the left might be stressed passes because of roll out situations/ cross body throws that make it an unnatural throw, therefor reulting in an incomplete pass. Well it changes things doesnt it? How how many incompletes passes were overthrown versus actually being knocked out by the CB? These little pieces matter to really determine the whole story.

Out of this list of ten, only Revis made the Pro Bowl and none made the SB. I bring up the SB for the people who think we should pay Carr whatever it takes to keep him, even if it's wayyy over paying. How many really good CBs didn't make the Pro Bowl or this list? Quite a few.

Next list is the QB's rating when they throw at a certain CB:

Out of this ten, seven are duplicated. If this list means so much, why then does only Revis and Carlos Rodgers make the Pro Bowl off of both list? Seven players appeared on both list, yet only 2 of them are on the Pro Bowl roster, in which only 1 of those made the list twice. .

Point being, that this list doesn't really indicate every factor involved in determining a players skill. Pro Bowl doesn't either. But if Flowers made the Pro Bowl this year and not this list, would we even be having this discussion of whos better? 5 other players that made Pro Bowl are not on either of these list.

While we are on Pro Bowls, why not mention another "issue" people have with Flowers. His height. Yea I know, he isn't as tall as you would like him, but does it mean he will not reach his potential greatness? Four out of the 6 CBs on the 2011 Pro Bowl roster were 5'10" and under (3 at 5'10")..So....yea.

During my debate with this topic, I also heard about Carr being better then Flowers during 2010. "It was Flowers first 3 VERY solid games that padded his stats" the guy said. So sure enough, just like I knew I would, I found his source on PFF. Here it is:

That brings up the question of which Kansas City cornerback is covering who, but it may not be as important as we expect. Brandon Flowers is widely acknowledged as the top dog in the Kansas City secondary, but when we look closer at the numbers it is astonishing how much of that value came in the first three weeks of the season. In the first three weeks, we recorded Flowers with a ridiculous 95 percent Success Rate. He allowed only two completions over 10 yards, and one of those was a failed conversion on third-and-20. But since the Kansas City bye in Week 4, our numbers have Flowers as a very average player, perhaps in part due to a hamstring injury suffered in Week 11. The numbers tell a pretty astonishing story about the Kansas City defense after the bye week:

Stats for Flowers/ Carr 2010 weeks 1-15 (thats what they have):

Notice in the grey box that it mentions Flowers hamstring injury suffered in week 11. Lets start with week 12. Say the hamstring injury bothered Flowers for at least the next three games, it is a hammy we are talking about here. So can one say that if we are going to put an asterisk on the first 3 games of his VERY VERY good start, we should at least put one on the last 3 (possibly 4) games. I mean it's fair right? Evens itself out I would think? Now to find out what the REAL number would be, we would need a breakdown of the season without the first 3 and the last 3 (possibly 4) games included. Well, PFF doesn't have that available. If someone does have it, I would like to see it. But until then, we can't really use the ol' three game excuse anymore, can we?

Can we also throw in that PFF's All Pro team of 2010 (dated Jan. 12th, 2011), has Brandon Flowers and Champ Bailey as starters. Yea, over Nnamdi.. Same source people use to say Carr had a better 2010 season. Why wasn't Carr even in the PFF's All Pro team if he had the better season?

I feel I proved my point, but just to fling some shit as I walk away, let's mention Flowers ability to tackle. This is HUGE. Ya see, If you can't tackle as a CB, they will run the ball at you. Carr holds his own, but Flowers is in another class of his own. He is a star on his own list. Once again, coming from PFF:

Flowers’ Physicality

At the other end of the scale sits a player who has long since earned that recognition, and did it precisely because he has always been a complete corner. Denver’s Champ Bailey enjoyed an excellent season last year, after struggling through injuries in recent times. The Broncos star missed just a single tackle on 44 attempts, showing that he is as adept in run-support as he is in coverage. That mark wasn’t good enough to lead the league at the position though; that honor goes to a young corner hoping to work his way into the echelon that Bailey has resided in for some time.

Brandon Flowers from the Chiefs amassed 65 attempts, and missed just one tackle. NFL Draft guru Mike Mayock raved about Flowers’ physicality and tackling ability when he was drafted, and he is being proved right the longer Flowers plays. The Chiefs have put together an extremely talented young secondary, and Flowers’ career path has been steadily on the rise since he was drafted. Kansas City has themselves a corner with the potential to emerge as one of the league’s true elites, and he has the tackling skill and toughness to do so as a total package at the position, not just as a cover corner.

Just so we are clear, Flowers had 65 attempted tackles and only missed ONCE! Only one time! Bailey was second with 44 attempts and only one missed tackle. Everyone else's ratio is 27.5 and lower. How can we just ignore that like it's nothing?

Flowers and Carr are both CBs I hope to have in a Chiefs uniform for years to come. I understand the hype Carr is getting, but don't let that blur the fact Flowers is still sick. I mean if I wanted, I can bring up a source on the internet who says more things nice about Flowers, but I wont. Eff it, I will.

Bill Williamson, who covers the AFC West(love him or hate him), has Flowers down as his potential player to soon lock up the Pro Bowl. Now once again, I don't see Carr anywhere on that list. Me personally, I think Carr has a very good shot at being on Pro Bowl roster. This is just to show that you can get all kind of conclusions off the internet, doesn't mean crap!!!

But it sure is nice to debate which one of our Cornerbacks is better. That's a great problem to have.