Building the Perfect Defensive Beast
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 6:31 PM CST
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....and missing a few pieces. The Chiefs have been busy in the last week adding an Offensive Coordinator and also adding a couple of players at Strong Safety and Tight End. In reviewing the Chiefs website, we have not zero Centers anymore but two. Depending on how you look at it we have either three Offensive Tackles or three Tight Ends (or One of each in all reality). Preparing for Training camp, I would assume we need another pair of QB's on the roster, more offensive lineman, and another Tight End or WR or both. Scott Pioli should be busy re-signing some more of our players from last year and come March 13th some others in Free Agency.
What do we truly need?
We have 5 Inside Linebackers on the roster and we have 4 Outside Linebackers too (not counting that mysterious 257 lb Defensive End we have also). So do we need another body or clearly just ONE impact body?
I have been a big detractor of the Nose Tackle Position. We don't play it that often, we have done well enough with over the Hill guys and undersized guys..... Maybe I am wrong and if we had a dominating guy in there I would see the impact difference a Nose Tackle can make. I doubt that guy is going to be available to draft in 2012. We have one guy designated NT on the Chiefs roster and he did not play many snaps last season. Again a body or ONE impact body?
Defensive End is a different animal. We need lots of these beasts to make our Defense dominant and active. We have two and then a list of project guys. More 6'5 300+ lb Man-Beasts. This is a need (every year IMO).
The Chiefs secondary is an awesome thing. Re-Sign Brandon Carr. Another body is always welcome every year.
My list of needs would be Defensively:
- Brandon Carr
- Free agent Nose Tackle
- As many Man-Beasts as we can find in Free agency or the Draft
- Later round drafted Defensive Backs
Chiefs current Roster
| Position | Starter | Starter or Backup | Reserve | Reserve | Reserve | Reserve |
| Offense | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Quarterback | Matt Cassel | Ricky Stanzi | BJ Coleman | - | - | - |
| Halfback | Jamaal Charles | Lamar Miller | Dexter McCluster | Shaun Draughn | - | - |
| Fullback | Shane Bannon | - | - | - | - | - |
| Wide Receiver | Steve Breaston | Jonathan Baldwin | Jeremy Horne | Terrance Copper | Jamar Newsome | Jarius Wright |
| Tight End | Tony Moeaki | Orson Charles | Jake O'Connell | - | - | - |
| Offensive Tackle | Branden Albert | Bobby Massie | Steve Maneri | David Mims | - | - |
| Offensive Guard | Ryan Lilja | Jon Asamoah | Darryl Harris | - | - | - |
| Offensive Center | Rodney Hudson | Rob Bruggeman | - | - | - | - |
| Specialists | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Long Snapper | Thomas Gafford | - | - | - | - | - |
| Place Kicker | Ryan Succop | - | - | - | - | - |
| Punter | Dustin Colquitt | - | - | - | - | - |
| Kick Returner | Dexter McCluster | - | - | - | - | - |
| Punt Returner | Javier Arenas | - | - | - | - | - |
| Defense | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Nose Tackle | Jerrell Powe | Anthony Toribio | - | - | - | - |
| Defensive Tackle | Brandon Bair | Lucas Patterson | - | - | - | - |
| Defensive End | Glenn Dorsey | Tyson Jackson | Allen Bailey | Derek Wolfe | Mike Martin | Dominique Hamilton |
| Outside Linebacker | Tamba Hali | Justin Houston | Andy Studebaker | Cameron Sheffield | Gabe Miller | - |
| Inside Linebacker | Derrick Johnson | James-Michael Johnson | Brandon Siler | Demorrio Williams | Cory Greenwood | Caleb Campbell |
| Cornerback | Brandon Flowers | Stephen Gilmore | Jalil Brown | Javier Arenas | - | - |
| Safety | Eric Berry | Kendrick Lewis | Antonio Allen | Donald Washington | Kyle McCarthy | - |
2 35 Kansas City Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina P4Grab -19 Reach
2 43 Kansas City Bobby Massie OT Mississippi P3Grab +3 Value
2 50 Kansas City Lamar Miller RBF Miami (FL) P4Grab +12 Value
3 67 Kansas City Orson Charles TE Georgia P4Grab -12 Reach
3 80 Kansas City Antonio Allen SS South Carolina P9Grab -8 Reach
4 106 Kansas City James-Michael Johnson ILB Nevada P4Grab -7 Reach
5 130 Kansas City Jarius Wright WRS Arkansas P4Grab +5 Value
5 139 Kansas City B.J. Coleman QB Chattanooga P3Grab -5 Reach
5 142 Kansas City Derek Wolfe DE34 Cincinnati P4Grab -1 Reach
6 170 Kansas City Mike Martin DE34 Michigan P9Grab +16 Value
7 203 Kansas City Dominique Hamilton DE34 Missouri P9Grab -23 Reach
7 222 Kansas City
Some Sunday mock Drafting on www.drafttek.com netted a haul of prospective Kansas City Chiefs.
I used the available Offensive Tackles as trade bait and moved from 12 to 19 with the Chicago Bears for Jonathon Martin. I traded from 19 to 35 with Minnesota for Mike Adams. Bobby Massie should be able to hold down the Right Tackle spot.
We should be loaded for that 2013 1st round Quarterback now :)
I love the Kansas City Chiefs roster on the Mothership. Jon Asamoah is an Offensive Lineman, Gabe Miller at 257 lbs is a Defensive End, and Steve Maneri is a 290 lb Tight End.
I think the Baltimore Ravens know something about Defense.
It’s still early, but the 2012 draft class looks awfully similar to last year.
Defensive line and quarterbacks dominated the top of last year’s draft, and Ravens Director of College Scouting Joe Hortiz could once again see that being the case.
In his early analysis of this year’s crop, Hortiz identified three positions (in no particular order) that appear to be the strengths of the 2012 class:1. Quarterbacks
2. Defensive line
3. Wide receiversDefensive Line
Pass rushers are a valuable commodity in the NFL, making defensive linemen some of the most popular picks in recent drafts. There were 12 defensive linemen taken in the first round last year, more than any other position, and they could again dominate the top of the draft this April.
“This year, D-line is strong,” Hortiz said.
That could be good news for the Ravens, who said at the season-review press conference that adding a pass rusher will be one of the priorities this offseason.
The strength in this year’s defensive line group is that a number of the players could fit in either 4-3 or 3-4 defensive schemes. These “tweener” guys, as Hortiz calls them, could be defensive ends or pass-rushing outside linebackers, depending on the team that drafts them.
Some of the players who fit that mold are South Carolina’s Melvin Ingram, Alabama’s Courtney Upshaw and Southern California’s Nick Perry.
“You’re probably going to see a lot of defensive lineman go in the first round again,” Hortiz said.
Geaux Chiefs
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Here is a huge piece of that puzzle you're talking about!
"I never went to bed with an ugly woman but I sure woke up with a few!"
/no skitzo
Campbell likely isn’t going to make more than Dockett, whose four-year extension is worth $48 million. In age and production, however, Campbell is close to two ends who signed contracts last summer: the Falcons’ Ray Edwards, whose five-year deal is worth a reported $30 million; and the Panthers’ Charles Johnson, who signed a six-year, $72 million deal.
That’s a wide gap and could present some challenges in negotiations. The Cardinals also have the franchise tag available, which would restrict Campbell’s options in free agency.
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
and he is young! just growing into his paws ; )
……………probably will be tagged but a guy can dream right! I’d much rather see him on the line than Dorsey or Fat Tyson ; )
"I never went to bed with an ugly woman but I sure woke up with a few!"
/no skitzo
Could definitely take Dorsey's spot
and make T-Jax beastly
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
Paul Soliai ... plug him in at NT, re-sign Carr (like DUH!) and add Antonio Allen (DB) in the 3rd Round
BOOM!
Defense Done
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
kind of short on Defensive Ends there :)
A rotation of Dorsey, Jackson, and Bailey?
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
well, Dorsey and Bailey rotate anyway ... have someone who gives TJax a breather don't we? Gilberry?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
besides, I'm referring to starters
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
As Steve was saying, skip the whole NT and slide everyone over a bit. Take that Solai money and put it in Calais's pocket
"I never went to bed with an ugly woman but I sure woke up with a few!"
/no skitzo
what, run a 4-3?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Not a 4-3 but a hybrid if you will............
Like Steve said…..
We don’t play it that often,
I know if The Chiefs had a “beast” NT than they would run it more but they don’t and I’m not sure Solai is either. So a hybrid type alignment to make Calais fit. Anything to make him fit! I’ve been watching JPP over here and the amount of damage that kid is doing is amazing. Calais is right up there with him, a game changer. You guys are much smarterer than me, so I’ll leave it up to you, as to how to make it work. I say just sign the guy and let the chips fall where they may, cause I know QBs will be falling as well. Hali/Calais….wow!
"I never went to bed with an ugly woman but I sure woke up with a few!"
/no skitzo
Arizona had a Pair of NT's
Big Dan Williams and David Carter amassed 500 snaps together and Kelly Gregg out-performed them individually
the AZ duo amassed more QB pressure
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 9:40 PM CST up reply actions
Fan of Don Henley?
Providing COLOR commentary for Arrowhead Pride! AKA The Picture Diva!
"I am not embarrassed to be with a younger man, except when I drop him off at school."-Angie Dickinson, veteran vixen
Really? You want Lilja, Bannon and Cassel starting?
And you don’t want a bigger back?
by NigerianNightmare on Feb 10, 2012 6:52 PM CST reply actions
OI was going to address that
and just wanted to stop with the defense tonite
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 6:58 PM CST up reply actions
"Building the Perfect Defensive Beast "
Starting with…the offensive line!
Or something. o.O
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
So...um...where's Amon Gordon on that depth chart?
Isn’t he one of the DE’s?
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
is he FA this year?
or is he one of thee two we just re-signed?
aaaaarrrgggggg! I’m so confused lately … lack of nutrition due to poor diet due to low income leading to advanced stages of Early Alzheimer’s
off-topic: do you know that it costs MUCH more to eat a healthy, nutritious diet than it does to eat really crappy, cheap food
I miss eating salmon on occasion
/le sigh
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
the chart is correct :)
Gordon is an UFA
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 9:34 PM CST up reply actions
After I hit post, I popped over to do a quick search and saw that he's a UFA
thanks guys!
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
Yes, I have heard that it's more expensive to eat healthy...esp since to find decent
prices on healthy food, you have to drive around more, thereby using more gas & spending what little you have on that. ;-)
I do have a very good friend who lives on a paltry amount of income (disabled)…she’s gotten really good at healthy meal planning on a budget…I’ll ask her for tips to pass along to ya.
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
rice, beans, potatoes ... not too bad, and eggs
red meat and fish are luxuries for me, have been for a long time
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Winter has to suck a bit...since you're not likely to find a nearby farmer's market under all that snow, eh?
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
by WorL4Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
Well aware of the difference in cost of eating healthy vs eating crap.
It sucks. I actually like to eat healthy.
It’s just much, much harder to do so.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
It's the worst thing for a confirmed bachelor.
I’d eat better with someone to cook for (and cook for me!). Big fan of making a big pot of soup. Great way to keep some red meat in the diet for the money.
would of ≠ would've
Yeah, I make home made chili pretty often.
Partially because it’s delicious. And partially because for less than $10 worth of ingredients I can feed the wife and myself for a few days.
And it reheats nicely.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
The offense keeping our d on the sideline
Will make them quiet beastly. We were 24th in time of possesion last year. When you look at the Ravens from 1996-2000 the big difference was their jump in time of possesion and how it affected their overall defensive rank and pts allowed:
Year/time of possesion rank/total defense rank/points allowed
1996 30th/30/442
1997 26th/18th/345
1998 26th/22nd/335
1999 20th/2nd/277
2000 2nd/2nd/165
Carpe Diem
I hope that is what happens
I don’t see a significant shift in talent this off-season to the Offensive side of the Ball. so far
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
Trent Richardson
=Jamal Lewis who did a great 1-2 punch with another UT rb Priest Holmes. Were not being built to be the Patriots, we don’t have Tom Brady. Were being built to be the Ravens, remmeber Pioli worked with Ozzie Newsome 6 years.
Carpe Diem
I would be fine with Richardson
I am old school and remember when you wanted good running backs early in the draft
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 10, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions
and pass up DeCastro?
blasphemy!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Funny how guys like ups and I are accused of living in the past, and then people turn right around and say OG in the 1st just isn't done!
would of ≠ would've
you got it, Prof
it’s progressive, forward thinking like ours that this country NEEDS
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
So your 2012 campaign will be centered around a platform of more first round interior O Line?
I’m interested in learning more, and may possibly become a card carrying member of the D.O.P. (Draft O-Line Party).
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
your pamphlet to offensive-line prosperity
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631907
membership is free!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Now there's a platform I can get behind
…and then convert the third and short.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
aye
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Just owning that area behind center, between the tackles, would be HUGE.
It’d show up as superior line surge in short yardage, too. To me, though, it’s as much about seeing that cradle of love in front of my QB.
would of ≠ would've
T-Jax is capable of giving that
Kelly Gregg and Glenn Dorsey are not.
That’s why I’m a fan of Soliai being brought in. Having someone that can walk a C/G back a few steps is HUGE when pressuring the QB.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Another 5-tech, and maybe we'd get to see Jackson inside, occasionally.
He’s the strongest guy on the line, imo. Soliai would be good. So would Rogers just joining the rotation, with a fair amount of Jax-Rogers-Dorsey, in various configurations. Amon Gordon would be a nice 4th for that kind of 3-man front.
would of ≠ would've
assuming Berry comes back healthy and carr gets resigned and Houston continues to develop
I am happy with our back 8. But our front 3 need a lot of work
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 11, 2012 3:52 AM CST reply actions
why?
I think our front three is fairly solid. Dorsey and Jackson are legit, we are one NT away. Also we already have supreme depth with Powe, Gordon, and Bailey. Our defense is one piece away from complete
There are no stupid questions just stupid people
They are average
Jackson is an average player. He went from being a bust to being a guy that starts. Well…Ok if that is all you expect. But, i think we need a difference maker on that side that can also rush the passer. Jackson is to 1 dimensional.
We have no NT. Gregg is gone and Poe was active for 1 game. So, the most important piece on the line , we don’t have
Dorsey is a nice story. But, the guy is just average and he had a down year this season. Maybe Bailey can take over for him in the future. But it is time for an upgrade
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 11, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
FA or Draft
We really need some D-line bodies too
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
agree on NT, I'd love Soliai or someone ... disagree on TJax, I think he's turning into a very good 3-4 DE for us
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Shooting yourself in the foot
Jackson was never a bust, he’s been a solid starter ever since he got here, exit the one season he was injured so I don’t know where you’re getting that from.
the fact that our two DE’s can look “average” without the “most important piece” should speak a lot to their talent.
Dorsey has had two above average years as our DE but one “down year” and you’re willing to throw in the towel already? Not that it matters you think that Bailey can be the starter there so we obviously don’t need an upgrade.
There are no stupid questions just stupid people
furthermore
I stated Powe would be a solid backup not starter. You’re like contentiously agreeing with me there
There are no stupid questions just stupid people
I said maybe on Bailey
and Jackson is just ok
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 11, 2012 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
a lot of people think otherwise, but it's cool :-)
Jackson is just ok
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ok who.....?
The rubber hoses are out
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 12, 2012 4:16 AM CST up reply actions
300 snaps later, I think otherwise
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:04 PM CST up reply actions
Not this conversation again.
Please raise your hand if you think the job of a 3-4 DE is to sack the QB. Anybody? Anybody? /crickets
The only people who ever thought Jackson was a bust was short sighted nit-wits that have no clue about what it takes for a 3-4 DE to develop in the NFL (or the type of nit-wit that thinks that a 3-4 DE should be sacking the QB).
T-Jax is not an ‘average player’, he is a beast and only getting better. Put a REAL NT between Jackson / Dorsey and watch out, the Chiefs will not just have one of the top D-Lines in the NFL…we will have THE top D-Line in the NFL.
It is not about sacks
but the guy gets absolutley no pressure up front. Yes, a 3-4 end needs to have at least some pass rush ability and he has none. that is why he is 1 dimensional and that is why he wasn’t worth the 3rd overall oick
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 13, 2012 1:25 AM CST up reply actions
3-4 DE job is not to pressure get sacks, it is to eat up double teams, stop the run (set the edge), and let the LB put pressure / get sacks
T-Jax does just that, eats double teams, sets the edge (got 40 ‘stops’ last year) like the “Big Dawg” he is. Once they started playing Houston teams gave up even TRYING to run to that side of the line.
Add to all that the fact that the year he was drafted was overall cr@p-tac-ular and T-Jax was (and IS) an awesome pick-up.
The 5 tech job in OUR system is to take doubles, not in every system.
Best to make that point clear before someone comes up with stats against other starting 5 techs.
Another point is that a lot of the other starting 5 techs stay in subpackages and are asked to rush from the interior, we do not ask Tjax to do that instead have Bailey/Gilberry
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 13, 2012 6:31 AM CST up reply actions
When they get caught in the base D against the pass, Jax is far from the weak link in rush from the front 3.
would of ≠ would've
If he uses the bullrush
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 14, 2012 6:10 AM CST up reply actions
Richard Seymour played the exact same spot (5 tech ) with the Pats
He averaged 5 sacks per year and got pressure on a consistent basis. Yes, you need your D-line , even in a 3-4 , to generate at least some pass rush. If you don’t, your D becomes 1 dimensional and it is easier to expose, as ours was several time this year
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 14, 2012 12:59 AM CST up reply actions
Actually Seymour played the same position, 5 tech, but different spot, RDE not LDE
Even Pioli said that Tjax is not going to be another Seymour. Hell if it was so easy to find guys who could 2 gap and 1 gap like Seymour could.. every team would have 2 of them.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 14, 2012 6:10 AM CST up reply actions
Soliai would go a long ways on that fron 3 ... Dorsey is pretty good v RUN and Bailey is able to work inside on the Pass
they do complement each other in that way … be nice to see if Bailey develops more and is able to better shut down the run, but a solid NT like Soliai would be awesome
SILB isn’t a critical need, especially if Siler works out there … that could give us 4 solid starters at LB (we have 3 already for sure)
Defense is almost there!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Solial would go a long way
Into making this D-line really good
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 11, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
ha, yes ... was just saying that (above)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
and i was agreeing with you
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Feb 11, 2012 2:31 PM CST up reply actions
I like making a play for Soliai, although I think Gregg-or-better in the middle would be fine.
Assuming Eric Berry returns to form (a safe assumption, with today’s medical science), this defense cures most of their ills.
I still want Bailey to continue developing. I’m still eyeing Dorsey @ RDE and wanting more pressure from him against the pass. I’m still eyeing NT and wanting more pressure from HIM against the pass. Soliai MIGHT cure what seems to ail Dorsey.
IMO, the cardinal sin on this D is losing inside contain against QBs. Keep the throwing windows small and don’t let him escape through an inside gap. It was a big problem with the pre-RAC defense. RAC’s front 3 haven’t gotten as much penetration as us Dan Saleamua fans would like, but they’ve kept that fence in place, since RAC. Part of my issue with Dorsey might be his trying to stay under control, stay in the play, stay on his feet, rather than going all-out to kill the QB. If the NT gets more push on passing downs, the ends can come up the field more aggressively to match. What they don’t want to see happen is a big bowlin’ alley openin’ up between NT and either of the DEs.
would of ≠ would've
Carr and Soliai and all other resouces to offense
Berry & Carr are self explanatory, but my understanding is you need a NT who can take up 2 defenders to make the 3-4 really work right. And if the DT’s can do it too, so much the better.
The only NT who does that and we are likely to have a shot at is Soliai, and perhaps Daboll can use their joint Miami experience to help get that done.
Then if we actually “Beef” up the offense, install a system that allows us to have a positive time of possession, then I would bet that the defense would be significantly better too, and the Beast can rise………..
I would not at all mind drafting Antonio Allen (DB) in 3rd
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'm down with that
With the caveat being later resources (or FA resources) being spent on trying to find more quality DB depth.
Don’t have to burn the high resources for starters, but we can’t afford to have an injury leave us so vulnerable again.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
I'm not against late-round picks for DB, as a regular thing, but never draft there for backups.
You’re always drafting for a potential starter. That backup WiLL be starting, the minute your #1 goes down. I know you don’t mean it this way, but the way folks talk about drafting backups sometimes sounds to me like it’s OK if the guy sucks, because he’s only a backup. I’d never draft a guy to back somebody up.
would of ≠ would've
Not at all looking for guys who suck.
Carr and Lewis were both 5th round picks.
I’m perfectly happy getting more of those type of guys. If our depth starts looking like that, I can’t see any problem.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
yeah 4-5 round
maybe higher some sesons depending on the rest of the roster
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yup. I'll be so glad once we have solid starters top to bottom and we can look for depth as early as round 2
Then we’ll be a perennial playoff team.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Yeah, but I don't think either one was picked in order to be a backup.
They thought both were potential starters and both started as rookies.
I’m still looking high for DBs, but sure, if a good one’s still there in the 5th, go for it! Both Carr and Lewis have to be considered scouting coups. Peterson/Edwards took Carr for measurables; whereas, Pioli took Lewis for football IQ, imo.
Corner, especially, is a position that I’m pretty likely to draft fairly high, even if I’m pretty set at the position, especially nowadays, with the rookie cap making the next-year trade of a corner to a team in need something so cap-friendly. This is the middle ground between my wanting to pony-up for veteran CB – whatever it takes, and saner minds, who want to keep salary under control long-term. I’d draft ’em early and often, and the ones that are hits, I give them an early bump on their rookie deal, and try to keep ’em longer-term for middle-of-the-road salary.
I’d’ve tried like hell to re-sign Carr to a reasonable deal LAST year. I think Carr really helped his value by playing out the string and finishing strong in his contract year. Heck, after his 2nd year of starting, I’d’ve been pushing for a $2 million a year deal for him, for 3 or 4 years. Seems like a lot, but not so much when you consider the total payout would’ve been a mere $8 million, when that’s now ballpark for his ANNUAL salary.
would of ≠ would've
Did you read my Edit?
I think you will like it
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2012 5:34 PM CST up reply actions
No. You mean there's a FanPost above the discussion?
I always forget to read ’em.
would of ≠ would've
Pioli took the 5th-rounder that "gets it."
Peterson took the 5th-rounder who was an athlete, needing coaching-up. Seems like Pioli’s pattern is more looking for guys who “get it.” Sure you want exceptional athletes, and that’s what the 1st 3 rounds are for, and where the real scouting distinguishes between those elite athletes for the ones with football sense.
I didn’t like the McCluster and Arenas picks, but I have to admit, they had veteran traits. The game was NOT too big for either one of ’em.
would of ≠ would've
I'm of the mind that you everyone you draft you do it because you think they can start - or develop into starters
But some end up being good enough to make the cut but not usurp a starter. That’s good depth.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
I just don't really see NT as that huge of a need anymore
Our apparent disinterest Offseason-wise the past few seasons tells me that it just isn’t viewed as one of our bigger needs by the FO, despite the old adage “NT is the most important piece in the 3-4” I think its because we’re more of a hybrid set-up with our 3-4/Nickel/Dime all being used rather effectively, and having the personnel to do it outside of a safety that can cover TEs, and stop the run which I hope we have next season with Berry.
I think Crennel likes the Sub-Packages, granted it makes Kalo pull his hair out, but we’re still tooling with it and rotation is ideal with any defensive front(See: Giants) Plus its part of Crennel’s success when dealing with the best passers in the league(Almost beating Manning, and beating Rodgers was on the backs of the Nickel). We just need to be a bit more stout, Gilberry just wasn’t enough but Bailey seems to have that pre-requisite strength. He got much better as the year progressed in run defense in those packages, and was refining his pass rushing skills rather well.
It wouldn’t surprise me if we target more of a penetrating lineman with better size/strength this offseason instead of plug and play nose, to fit into our Nickel Packages. I can already see the fans cursing the world when we draft ANOTHER DE early again lol.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 11:27 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
I was actually going to bring that up
Are the days of the 2 gap base 3-4 running out? With the amount teams are passing now, we are in subpackages more often so a 2 down NT is on the field even less. Tossing three 5 techs out there with a rotation in the subpackages seems the better way to go, from pressure from the front 3 and keeping fresh in the subpackages.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
or...
are the # of guys available that can play run and pass that limited? Just looks to me it is easier to draft quality 4-3 guys vs. 3-4. 3-4 guys might take a little longer to develope as well. When everybody was running 4-3’s it made sence to be different. The no hudle has killed the ability to sub as needed, so I’m thinking 3 down players are that much more valuable.
I agree, too. So maybe we're not EVER going to see a high NT pick.
With the emphasis on 270-pound OLBs, you still have a pretty big 4- or 5-man front, even without a monster NT. Adding more 5-tech kinds of players and you can just mix it up on the interior 3 and against nickel offenses, you can send one of those 5-techs to the sideline.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see another UDFA and/or another 3rd-round DE/DT type guy brought in. Nor would it surprise me if they continued some scattergunning at DE/OLB, because those athletic fronts on D are enjoying some success, right now.
would of ≠ would've
I agree
We need more 3 down players on the front three. The only one we have I’m comfortable with is T-Jax, and he’s not much of a pass rusher (he’s just not as awful at it as Dorsey and can push the pocket back a little)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions
There are seemingly less and less 2 gap prospects
More guys who are better at pass rushing from the interior IMO
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
But that was always the Chiefs issue
We could not find good 4-3 DT’s
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 12:53 PM CST up reply actions
With the spred going crazy in college, there are more 1 gap prospects
Bigger DEs move to DTs, bigger DTs slim down, etc.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
I know Romeo has a long history of 3-4 play
But if he is such a matchups kind of coach he has to realize the benefits of those 4-3 fronts against certain teams. That might explain his 257 Lb DE and his sub 300 lb DT’s. He could esaily throw a 4-3 look at any team when he wants too.
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
Our subpackages are basically a 4 man front
Hali/Houston as DE’s
Bailey/Gilberry as DT’s
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
Which should also down play the need of a dominate Mike LB
We wouldn’t want to take DJ off the field?
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 1:02 PM CST up reply actions
Well we run a lot of different players in the subs
DJ is a constant, we run 3 safeties, Belcher, Stude, Sheff, etc
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
So a better Cover SILB would keep the base on the field
regardless of true front 3-4 or 4-3
Hali would be the wildcard role?
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
A guy who could cover could keep us in base more often
Also depends if we are calling a man coverage or zone
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
I was thinking Zach Brown, for that reason. A smaller, speedier LB as one nickel option.
More like, going light up front and putting a semi-lineman kind of SILB in there, like sticking Sheffield at SILB when they were in nickel and Green Bay was trying to sneak in some running plays. Go ahead and let Bailey and Gilberry pin their ears back and have Sheffield follow the ball.
Sort of a more athletic, smaller, penetrating first wave, with a little bit bigger 2nd wave to mop up the holes that first wave tends to leave. Bailey sure got a whole lot better at closing down on the draws (RB and QB draws) that used to be the antidote to him ‘n’ Gilberry in the middle.
I like 1-gap, because it forces the issue.
I like 2-gap, because you’re looking to FINISH plays with one of the OTHER 8 guys, and the 2-gap players give the other 8 guys an edge, by eating blockers and by keeping it unclear to the opposing offense just who the 4th or 5th or 6th attacker is going to be. In the 4-3, you have those 4 guys who are gonna do pretty much the same kinds of things all day long. In the 3-4, you might be blitzing from the left, from the right, up the middle, or all three, and, other than the 3 front guys, everybody else has closing speed.
Blah blah blah. I think it’s easier to disguise 3-4, especially if you have the option of singling-up outside, at will.
would of ≠ would've
I think Sheffield was more of a spy on the QB then anything else
Rodgers definitely didn’t want to run to much with a 250 Lber keeping an eye on him.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
I think if you read his original scouting reports, it's all about having an instinct for the run game.
But yeah, it makes sense that he was spying on Rodgers on passing plays. A big danger with those situational DTs is losing the contain (inside or outside).
I was pretty surprised at how well the 4-man rush kept him corralled, though, without any help from the back end.
would of ≠ would've
Hell even out base 3-4 is close to a 4-3 under
With how often we send the front 3+Hali, front 4
In the 4-3 under the SLB is shifted over on the line just like a 3-4 SOLB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions
so DJ would go to 4-3 OLB?
I think I mispoke a comment above then
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
DJ could be WLB or MLB depending who the other LB is
Belcher would push DJ to WLB
Stude might keep DJ at MLB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
Speaking on ILB's - Luke Kuechly
Negatives — Not a natural man-coverage backer, is not especially quick or agile with his back to the quarterback and isn’t asked to cover a tight end or running back very often… Can get a little high at times when taking on blocks or forming up at the line of scrimmage, may have some difficulty taking down larger backs at the next level until he learns to play a little lower… Has decent speed but is not a burner by any means, makes up for lack of top straight-line speed by always being in position… Not a natural pass rusher, rarely blitzes and lacks elite explosiveness when asked to rush the quarterback from the edge… Tackling numbers are out of this world but makes too many tackles after the runner has already picked up a good chunk of yardage… Isn’t a downhill linebacker that will crash gaps and make plays at the line, his tackling numbers pile up by the amount of tackles he makes downfield… Kuechly is being touted by most as a first rounder because of his tackling numbers and incredible instincts but he’s no more than an average athlete and below average strength.
Read more: http://sidelinescouting.com/rankings/2012/ilb/luke-kuechly/#ixzz1m6pTpp4D
Would seem to me to not fit what we need?
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 11, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
right
Masons was all over that guy at first, but not of late … precisely because he doesn’t really fit our needs
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yeah he doesn't fit
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
I'd be drawn by his instincts, and the way I'd build teams.
But he’d go way higher than I’d be picking his like.
would of ≠ would've
Tell that to the Giants
They just won a Super Bowl off the backs of a defensive line that was constantly substituting players in and out.(Highly versatile players as well)
Hurry up offense, while advantageous in its own merits, isn’t run all game long like Jim Kelly and the Bills back in the 90s. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. basically all the top QBs in the league, huddle up throughout games.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
That is only because the offense sub'd
If they went with a wide set, and did not sub you can catch the defense unable to sub
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think you should expect the offense not to sub
Whenever i watch games, the only times I see the hurry-up implemented is either to take advantage of a big play, take advantage of a tired defense, or to beat the clock.
And even if you catch the defense unawares, we have a great defensive mind back there running things to keep make adjustments and make creative play calls.
I used the Giants example on purpose, Coughlin comes from the Parcells school the same as Crennel and I have to think the views are pretty similar especially with the way he’s utilized our talent.
Great people want 3 down players at every position, I do too, but that’s something that is next to impossible to find, and something we definitely do not have currently. We can chase that dream, but my vote is on us never attaining it.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
If you do not sub with a hurry up offense you can keep the same defensive players out on the field
If you run a huddle, defense can sub during that time. If the offense subs the defense gets their chance to match.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I know this
: /
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't mean to hit enter, got distracted by a text and never finished
You stated they were constantly subbing, but you can force a defense to keep certain players on the field. One thing the Pats offense has going for it with the 2 TEs is they can come out in a base set, have the defense form to stop the run then roll to a hurry up and split the TEs out wide creating match ups. Sub in a new back, defense subs in better cover guys then you can run easier.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Fortunately...
Peyton is about done. Hope luck isn’t just as good at it.
But...
they were doing it to keep guys fresh more so than situational, and I didn’t think they did it as much as they normally do. The trick was, they proved early that they didn’t Have to sub.The Pats lost by giving the Giants D too much repect and not playing patriot ball. The Pats did the same with the Ravens and it almost cost them there to.
The Pats lost because they didn't have great wideouts and Pollard took out Gronk.
Matchups would’ve been much more difficult if the Giants hadn’t been able to single Gronk up with a LB all day long.
would of ≠ would've
true...
but Brady didn’t really play up to par for the “greatest ever” title often bestowed upon him. I’d like to see how he’d play for, say Pit, or the Rams, before anointing him.. They didn’t attack near enough to suit me…not that I’m a fan.
I thought OchoCinco ran good routes and got open, but it seemed like it was all just to clear it out
for throws Brady COULD make? Not sure. He could sure chuck it deep to Randy Moss, and, when Gronk was healthy, he could just chuck it in the general area and Gronk would go and get it, until Gronk had the ankle thing. Maybe you’re right, and it’s just that they keep the team-build and scheme in line with what Brady can do.
would of ≠ would've
I see NT as still significant enough to drop some money
The more stout you are against the run on 1st and 2nd down, the more you’re able to pin your ears back with Houston/Hali on 3rd down.
Additionally, it would be nice to have a NT who commanded double teams every single down, and could collapse the pocket a bit.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Is a 1 gap system better these days?
Get more pressure up front, still causing doubles, playing the run on the way to the QB and can still keep ILBs clean.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
Reply fail. See below
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I think it's more a result of the personnel on hand.
If you have some really talented 1-gap guys, then you shouldn’t force 2-gap on them.
And vice versa.
If you don’t have personnel geared then put in a system and acquire talent appropriately I guess?
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Who cares about stopping the run
When the best in the league hardly run it?
If the focus of every team is to win the Super Bowl, and every Super Bowl features a prolific passer, my money is gonna be on the team that can stop the pass.
Obviously it takes a great QB as well.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Stopping the run still matters a great deal
And also, A huge, strong NT can be a boon to pass rushing, as he’s more capable of “walking” an interior lineman back a few steps.
Nothing screws with QBs more than a collapsing pocket.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Who says that Nose Tackle can't play in sub-packages?
Or that we can’t get stout enough in sub-packages to stop the run, without that Nose?
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Yup. You come at it from both angles.
A better NT and you can leave him in there, with maybe your first move towards the nickel being the swapping-out of your SILB for a safety, for instance.
You can swap out your NT for a DB and maybe stick a bigger SILB in there. Or, depending on what you fear most from the opponent, maybe just go straight to dime D.
I’m one who prefers to stay big up front and send a LB to the sideline, and bringing in a DB. Big Nickel is where it’s at, for me.
would of ≠ would've
Need the personnel to do it
Right now, we don’t have ’em.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions
If a team has a lead on us and wants to control the clock
I care very much about stopping the run.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Not sure. It may well be
But do you see Romeo switching it up? I guess I don’t.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Would it take much?
Keep the back end, and the LBs the same. Tjax over to RDE as the stoutest DE next to Tamba, Dorsey at NT(or replacement), Bailey at LDE
Romeo has used a lot of different packages, not sure he is so penciled into the 2 gap if it is not the best option
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Dear God... Reply fail AGAIN
I need sleep
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:27 PM CST up reply actions
zzzZZZzzz
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Dorsey can't even handle one offensive lineman well
Now you want to put him at Nose?
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
In a 1 gap scheme where he would still likely get singled due to Tjax yes
Or replaced as stated
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
I thought we played 2-gap or 7-tech or something
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
We play 2 gap
DE’s are a 5 tech, nose a 0 tech
Question was about if a 1 gap scheme is better these days, and if it would take much to convert
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
Dorsey might be a good option at the nose when you switch to 1-gap attacking.
It was his forte when he was drafted. Cunningham never could get enough pass-rushing DTs.
would of ≠ would've
But the one gap requires a NT with pass rush ability
That’s not exactly Dorsey, at least from what I’ve seen. Maybe lined up under the nose we can regain that same fire we saw in college.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
A 1 shade, gets to pick his spot where to shoot
IF he can anyways, hasn’t really shown the ability to do it at this level
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Dorsey was a 1-gapper coming out of college.
Got famous because he was good at bustin’ up the middle.
would of ≠ would've
Hasn't really shown that in the NFL
I wonder if that Knee injury has taken away that explosiveness.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 11, 2012 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
I checked back and even in 2008
Dorsey was not a big threat to the QB.
Consistent in tackles and stops over the years though
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah I read a scouting report from NFL.com about Dorsey
And they said people compared him to Warren Sapp, but that was more to potential then anything else. They said that he was the ‘garbage man’ for LSU taking care of trash up front so the linebackers could make plays, why I thought he’d be ideal for us at 34 DE.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Feb 12, 2012 5:37 AM CST up reply actions
And he is a pretty good complement to the penetrating Hali.
But sending 4, with Houston (or Hali) on the strong side, leaves a bit to be desired from Dorsey on the weak side. And sending 3 is really weak, and I don’t think the problem is with Jackson at LDE, but at NT and RDE. Folks aren’t wow-ed by Jackson’s pass rush, but he does it just the way I’d hope and expect, from a 3-4 LDE.
would of ≠ would've
I think it was in the lower leg, more than the knee.
But yeah, he didn’t pan out the way it was expected. And Jackson does look like the better of the pair of LSU tackles.
would of ≠ would've
Could hapen I suppose
I’m not crazy about putting Dorsey in a position to draw double teams, though. He really struggles when doubled.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Isn't that kind of the point?
He struggles with double teams in order to keep a LB clean? That’s how I have always viewed the 34 anyway.
"We couldn't beat the Chiefs, but we damn near killed their horse"
John Madden 1975 Chiefs-42 Raiders-10
What I mean is, he gets pancaked and moved around by them
Dorsey saw double teams relatively rarely in our base defense this last year. T-Jax saw many, and Gregg saw quite a few as well. Dorsey was generally single teamed. When he was doubled he really struggled to hold his ground.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
I follow.
I’m a little knee jerk this morning:)
"We couldn't beat the Chiefs, but we damn near killed their horse"
John Madden 1975 Chiefs-42 Raiders-10
No worries
I’ve had like 16 reply fails. We’re all struggling
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Part of it's the job description for Dorsey.
Part of Dorsey’s job is keeping a lid on any shenanigans opposing offenses try to pull against Hali’s every-down, all-out, upfield assault. Lining up in the A gap is a lot different deal. Then it’s all about Dorsey trying to get a jump off the snap, and get into the O-Lineman before he can get squared-up on Dorsey. This is something Dorsey’s actually pretty good at. He gets that half-step and he CAN split that gap, keeping TWO linemen busy AND causing problems.
He just can’t be the lone guy getting penetration, because he’ll get exposed in space, coming off-balance, if the QB has any where to run to.
It sure will be fun watching this D next year.
would of ≠ would've
I am sure you are right
Watching the Chiefs play is worth 345 days of not watching the Chiefs play
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Not at all
just the Chiefs fill a void, I have a gap I guess too.
I prefer to talk Chiefs than other things
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2012 12:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
He gets that half-step and he CAN split that gap, keeping TWO linemen busy AND causing problems.
I can honestly tell you, I saw virtually nothing of him doing this in 200+ snaps watched.
Maybe I’m missing something. But he hardly ever drew double teams and when he did got absolutely stonewalled most of the time.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 12, 2012 11:09 PM CST up reply actions
Where is the Tjax breakdown anyways?
Tjax would still get doubled taking G/C, Dorsey G, Bailey T with Hali T and Houston TE/RB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:32 PM CST up reply actions
he's sleeping ... leave him alone, man
better yet, do your own TJax breakdown
I dare ya :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
WoahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Just settle down there, no need to overreact! haha
I was promised a Tjax breakdown, and I shall get one!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:35 PM CST up reply actions
You will
My wife got sick. so I’ve been put into primary parental duty, which has made homework more difficult to complete, which has made doing the post more difficult.
I plan on watching some game film today though. I want to do at least 200 snaps before I write on the guy.
I’ll try, man! I gotta “checkoff” my priorities one at a time.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
It's all good, life>AP... sometimes
As stated below I didn’t know if I just missed it
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Nope, you're good
I’ll try to make up for it by making it a good one. I’ve been out of the game for a while, need to see if my parantheses still work.
()()()()()()
Yep, I’ll be all right.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 11, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As long as there is no mention of Manning haha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
More than halfways done
Should be ready to go by tomorrow nite or so… I’ve only done the BUF game so far with game tape, but I’ve got the statistics part done :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Now your just spoiling me
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 6:32 PM CST up reply actions
I'm a giver
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
hahahaha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 12, 2012 9:01 AM CST up reply actions
hahahaha!
parenthetically good to go
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Nor did I know if I just missed it
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Josh Chichester TE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 11, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
haven't seen it and I've been waiting with my own rapt anti ...
… pation!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Stephon Gilmore
Impression: Is a “plus” sized corner with good quickness and fluidity. Needs to clean up his footwork in off/zone concepts, but has skill set to play near the line, check receivers and turn and run. Should be able to fight for a starting role during his rookie year in more of a zone scheme.
I like these kinds of guys.
Sort of like Jalil Brown, only more fluid/flexible. Depends on coachability, sounds like. I’m always lookin’ for guys who can play the inside leverage. Sounds like you’d want inside help very nearby in off-man calls. Sounds like he also has the tools to play safety, but needs coaching-up on the LB side of things: picking the right gap and trusting yourself. But somebody who’s a good enough tackler to fit well with what the Chiefs have and want to do.
The kind of annual DB pick you want to be making, year in and year out. I still have early-round bias at DB, because I’m still waiting to see a couple things develop in the secondary. They’re not quite where I want ‘em yet, in depth, at the corner spots. I want a 3rd corner, more on a par with the two starters, outside, who can come up in press against the slot man, and who allows them to be more dictatorial (rather than reactive) against the bunch formations. A guy who’s convincing outside, when maybe Flowers is the perfect antidote to a particular WR in the slot.
Could be Jalil Brown is going to become that guy. He’s coming at it from the direction I like to see, with my NFL-readiness bias towards the guys who can make it a fight to get off the line, which you don’t see a lot of in the college game. Brown may yet turn out to be the better of the two corners from his alma mater, last year, because he’s good at the physical part of the job description, and not some hot-house flower unused to jamming at the line.
would of ≠ would've
Gilmore and Allen would give great flexibility in the secondary
Gilmore could play some Free Safety and Allen besides backing up Berry could be that smaller Linebacker type to take on TE’s.
Impression: A physical in the box type player who doesn’t key overly well. Isn’t an NFL caliber pass defender either and looks more like a very average old school type strong safety.
Has to be an upgrade on McGraw
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions
Heh. If Zach Brown slipped, I might nab him and try to make him that kind of SS.
Come in in place of McGraw. Just on speed alone, the D would have more flexibility in pre-snap formations. If McGraw’’s helping deep, he has to be deep at the snap.
would of ≠ would've
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