Arrowheadlines: Chiefs News 1/9
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 9, 2012 5:42 AM CST
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PrintGood morning! We have another day of not a lot of Kansas City Chiefs news. Must be the offseason. Luckily what we do have is interesting. Keep reading for information on upcoming free agents, how to hear the Chiefs in surround sound (besides being at Arrowhead), and more info on Greenwood's new contract. I love that the guy we always get the most information on is a special teams player from Canada. Enjoy.
Hiring a head coach is only the first big choice the Chiefs will make in the next few weeks. Then come the decisions on whether to re-sign the 22 players who don't have contracts for the 2012 season.
Some are frontline players such as wide receiver Dwayne Bowe, the Chiefs' leading pass catcher for the last three seasons, and cornerback Brandon Carr.
Others are less crucial but still useful players such as linebacker Jovan Belcher, safety Jon McGraw and pass rusher Wallace Gilberry.
Chiefs Have Work To Do On Player Contracts from KC Star
Former Chiefs guard Will Shields is one of two first-year eligible nominees alongside former NFL head coach Bill Parcells, while former Saints and Chiefs tackle Willie Roaf is part of the Hall's finalist list for the second consecutive season.
The 44-member Selection Committee will meet on Saturday, February 4th to vote on this year's class. To be elected, a finalist must receive a minimum positive vote of 80 percent. The Hall must select at least four new members, but no more than seven.
Shields And Roaf Knocking On Hall's Door from The Mothership
COACHING AND FRONT OFFICE F
I am going to start right at the top and I am going to be harsh. If this team could win 7 games and be a home win in week 16 against Oakland away from winning the crappiest division in football, think how good this team might have been with even slightly better management. At the end of the lockout, Scott Pioli sat on his wallet and did almost nothing to address the incredible lack of depth on this team.
Grading The Kansas City Chiefs from The Lawrence Journal World
The Arizona Cardinals may welcome a familiar face to their ranks in the next few days.
According to Chris Hamblin, the Cardinals extended an offer to former offensive coordinator Todd Haley, though the spot offered is unclear.
Report: Cardinals Extend Offer To Todd Haley from Arizona Sports
Cumulus already broadcasts Atlanta Braves baseball games in Surround Sound, and now the company says this will be "football's first surround sound broadcast delivery across radio..."
...The Chiefs Radio Network has more than 50 affiliates. The Cumulus-owned flagship is classic rock "101 the Fox" KCFX.
Cumulus To Offer NFL Kansas City Chiefs Games In Surround Sound from Radio-Info.com
If Greenwood cracks the team in 2012, he'll have a chance to play as close to home as possible in the NFL. The Chiefs are scheduled to play a road game against the Buffalo Bills. There's even a slim chance Greenwood could play in Toronto at the Rogers Centre as one of the Bills' eight home games will be played in Hogtown in 2012, the final year of a five-year deal between the NFL team and Rogers Communications Inc.
"That would be an expensive weekend," Greenwood cracked when asked about how many ticket requests he'd have if he plays in Toronto. "That would be awesome."
Until organized off-season workouts begin in the spring, Greenwood will spend much of his time in Kingston - he does have a one-week trip to the Dominican Republic with his girlfriend scheduled for later this month.
"I need to take it easy for a bit and let my body heal," he said.
Regi Grad Gets New NFL Contract from The Kingston Whig-Standard
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From the small sample size it seems Cardinals fans will welcome Haley back.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
32 is reason enough to be expendable?
I think if anything this year proved how valuable he is as depth. The guy can play both positions, special teams and he’s the only veteran leadership on the back end. He should be at the bottom of the depth chart but no need to cut him before langford or washington.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Totally agree
He is the perfect example of “depth”. He’s not a starter or star, but he’s been there long enough now where he knows the system and he’s made some plays.
He’ll come cheap and be glad to have the job. Sign him.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Unless They Find A Younger Player Who'll Sign For The Minimum
Veteran’s minimum for 32 year olds is significantly higher than for a young player…that’s mainly why I think he’ll get cut. He isn’t a horrible player and he contributes, I just think they’ll look for someone younger and cheaper. Although maybe he does re-sign. I’m only speculating.
Younger player will be just that
Younger and won’t kow the system like McGraw. Maybe they draft someone younger, but this is a guy you want for depth. Like you said, he does contribute, and that’s what you’re looking for from a guy like that.
A young, unproven guy, who knows?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
It's Mainly About Salary
If they can find someone cheaper who could possibly improve, why would they pay more for an older guy who won’t? McGraw is basically the fourth safety at this point…that’s not a roster spot you want to invest much in.
Agree
But, look at what happens when you don’t have veteran depth. Can can do both, even if it’s young guys on the practice squad.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
True, But
Once you get past the third safety spot, veteran depth isn’t much of a priority. Kendrick Lewis is a decent, but average safety…if they find someone better to start in the draft, he becomes the veteran depth. McGraw has had a good stint here, but he’s still a limited player making more than a young player would. Those kind of guys get replaced all the time.
I'd keep Lewis too
You have Flowers, Carr, Berry, with these guys for depth and it’s hands down the best in the NFL. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t look for good young talent, but this is the last area they need to worry about.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
In '11 the rookie minimum was $375k, a 7-9 year vet was $810k
So it’s not a totally insignificant difference. I do hope that we’re actually pushing the cap a little before guys start getting cut due to salary though….
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Maybe not a priority for the position itself...
But I heard a lot about how Vrabel’s locker room presence was missed, because of the things he was able to teach people. McGraw would make a good “player-coach”, a player that has been around long enough that he can help the young guys in front of him develop.
Even if he doesn’t see the field much, his experience would be invaluable for the players on the defense.
I was sorry to see Vrable go
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
This
McGraw proved his worth this year again & provided some quality depth. If he wants to play again & doesn’t retire, then sign the man.
This
McGraw proved his worth this year again & provided some quality depth. If he wants to play again & doesn’t retire, then sign the man.
I agree, both times you said it!
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Yep.
As far as I’m concerned, though he may not be the best of the best, he’s certainly shown enough during his time as a Chief — from work to leadership to versatility — that I think we ought to keep him in the red and gold until he retires.
And it’s not like re-signing him is going to break the bank.
how many NFC west teams draft ahead of KC this year? 3?
pretty sure the NFC west is by far the worst division in the NFL.
D-Bowe says: "THAT'S MY BIKE, PUNK!!!!"
the NFC West is THE worst divison
and that’s why the 49ers don’t impress me as 6 of their games were against 3 of the worst teams in the NFL, nearly 1/2 of their wins. They’re a good team but not great and their weakness at QB is going to show in the playoffs.
I thought they looked great against the Steelers
but now I realize that the Steelers are not a very good team
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
you really said this? wow ... that's all, just wow
the Steelers are not a very good team
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
You think they are????
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
It's true
When their QB is running around on a broken ankle & half of the other starters are banged up.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I do mean right now
They are not very good. Injuries are no excuse, just look at KC. If Ben was that banged up, he shouldn’t have been playing.
Just look at what they’ve done recently. They just got by the Browns, twice, hammered by the 49’rs and if anyone other than Palko was QB for the Chiefs that day, KC would have won.
Full strenght, they’re very good.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I think we're all in agreement
They’re getting pretty old as a team, I won’t be surprised if they fall flat here in a couple years & need to do a rebuild. Ben may not be ‘old’ but he’s taken the punishment of a 12 year starter & seems more injury prone every year.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
His Line Isn't Good
Tackle has been a problem area the last three years or so and guard was a problem spot with Keomatu. Legursky and Pouncey are both solid, but there isn’t much depth.
The Steelers Got Hit Hard By Injury Towards The End
They lost Mendenhall, Pouncey, Smith and Hampton and Roethlisberger was banged up. That said, they weren’t a great team…just sort of above average. Their core of talent on defense is getting old and their offense is just so-so outside of Roethlisberger and Wallace.
Here's the big question.
Do you think the Chiefs should resign Bowe, and do you think they will?
by flip8744 on Jan 9, 2012 6:52 AM CST via mobile reply actions
They already would have
If they could have comes to terms, I think.
I think they end up tagging him. Carr is more of a concern to me.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Agreed
I think Bowe works under a franchise tag, Carr I have no idea what happens. He isn’t worth a #1 CB salary, but he may be able to find some team willing to pay that on the open market this year. So I’m less certain he returns if Pioli doesn’t lock him up before FA hits.
I agree about Bowe
He’ll be franchised & shopped around. If there’s a good deal he’ll be traded, if not Pioli will keep him around for a year to a) allow Baldwin another season to develop b) See how Bowe performs while making $10m in a season. I think it’s doubtful that he’ll re-sign after that, but a lot depends on how well Baldwin improves next season.
I’ll be very disappointed if Carr doesn’t re-sign, but a lot depends on his expectations. Jalil Brown may well become an adequate replacement if he leaves.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I like the idea of franchising him and looking to see what you can get out of him
He’s a good receiver, don’t get me wrong. It’s just that after watching the Oakland game, there were passes that Orton had right on the money to him and he dropped. I’m not saying the game wouldn’t of ended the same, but for the #1 receiver to drop passes like that. Those were game changing drops. I’m thinking grab another receiver in the 2nd, Nick Toon.
He's not a guy you want to depend on in a close game
But he is, by far, the most talented receiver I’ve ever seen in KC. So frustrating.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
And on Bowe's end...
He may want to see who his QB and OC are……I know I would if I was him.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
Several reports I've seen say Carr is a very likely re-sign.
They said the team is very proud of their corner duo.
I hope you're right
Someone is going to pay him and it may as well be the Chiefs
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I say pay the man some $
Let him and others know that hard work does pay off. For a D-II player to come in and improve every year. Hopefully he’s one that would like to see the team grow. He takes a little cabbage, but not greedy enough to want to break the bank. I know that him and Flowers have a good relationship/connection going on. I see him sticking around for a decent, but not ridiculous, pay.
Hard to say that
There’s a good chance most of our free agents (and their agents) were waiting to see what the front office does about HC / OC / DC before signing on.
Those kind of things do make a difference.
I doubt we see many / any contract signings or extensions until our coaching situation is locked down.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
So does that mean that all the Pre-fire re-signs were a vote of confidence for Haley, Muir and Crennel?
I can understand the argument to an extent, but more so with offensive players (Bowe, Orton), not defense (Carr).
Charles, Hali and DJ all re-signed. By the above argument, they must have all liked Haley….not the $$$$$
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
There wasn't a coaching conundrum when they re-signed.
Things were on the up, looked stable and we’d been winning.
This season has been turbulent, Haley was fired and we limped through the end with an interim head coach.
Are you suggesting the environment in which DJ, Hali and Charles are re-signed is comparable to the current one?
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I am saying that if half the chiefs pending free agents
thought:
1) Haley was a good enough head coach to re-sign,
2) Crennel was a good enough D-Coordinator to re-sign,
3) Muir was a good enough O-Coordinator to re-sign…
then surely the current situation is at least as good as the former situation.
To insinuate otherwise is to infer that:
1) Haley >>crennel,
2) crennel the HC & DC <<crennel the DC
3) Muir > anybody else in the world.
The DC isn’t changing, so that is a non-factor.
The OC is changing, and like Palko as QB, who the hell ever replacing Muir already improves the OC position immensely.
It has nothing to do with a “conundrum” or “chaos.” Simply put, the situations, even if OC isn’t filled are guaranteed improvement over the former situations. YET, though the former situations apparently weren’t optimal, those big name free agents still re-signed…and in the case of Breaston, et al, outside free agents decided to sign.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 15, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
Guy from Lawrence doesn't mention the great position we're in to re-sign our good players and still have big cap space.
I know some people just look at the dollar figure, but that’s thinking about the team spending too simplistically. Eventually you do have to spend money on good players, but I think that’s what Pioli has been waiting for.
The whole "Hunt" is cheap
Is a bunch of shit. They’ve spent 195 million in EXTENTIONS. That doesn’t include Berry and all the other rookies, plus what they have to spend this year.
Seems like so many fans just want them to spend the money regardless of who they give it to.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
We wanted to build through the draft and groom our own players.
And that’s what is going on! People just seem to forget.
apparrntly Pioli forgot too
We also want to keep a coach and consistent system in which to develop our players under, right? In order to develop players you need to draft along your HC’s coaching style and give him time to groom them, right? Not saying I am a huge Haley proponent, just pointing out that you’re argument is too simplistic and discounts the other side of things.
by JMagsKC1 on Jan 9, 2012 8:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
My argument had nothing to do with a coach, so there's no way it could be too simplistic in that regard.
Don’t present a red herring where it doesn’t belong. We could talk about coaching consistency later.
You don't keep a coach just for consistency.
Especially when the team is the model of INconsistency under him.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Agreed
The Hunt is cheap talk is ridiculously overblown. It’s mainly because of Pioli’s unwillingness to go after free agents…which I’d say is a problem with Pioli, not Hunt. Hunt has said before that he has never turned down a request from Pioli on players over money.
Devil's Advocate
That could also be because it was made clear to Pioli as to what the limits are up front, and Pioli has just never tried to push them.
That’s kind of arguing semantics, and I don’t actually believe that point, but Hunt’s quote doesn’t necessarily mean anything.
Valid Point
I think it’s disproven somewhat by the extensions they handed out this year, but you’re right in that we don’t know what is said behind the scenes.
But we can reasonably assume Pioli wouldn't have come here had he not been able to spend....
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
Why pay a head coach and d coordinator when you can save by having one guy do both jobs?
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Hire Chip Kelly, and he can coach offense too.
Your dream three-in-one scenario, HIV.
OT: Osweiler—is he worth a tinker’s damn at quarterback? And is Burfict all he’s cracked up to be (tackling, reading what the O is doing, etc)?
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
Chip Kelly – Believe the hype
Osweiler – Don’t believe the hype
Burfict – Given our draft position and unlikelihood of trading up for a QB, Burfict is the player I want. Dude is the perfect mix of size and crazy. This D has a good mix of cerebral and nonstop effort players, now it needs some throat slashing craziness.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Sign Jason Voorhees as a Safety (in an ironic way)?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
I hear he has a non-stop motor.
40 time was slow, though.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
But he is excellent in pursuit
I hear he has character issues though
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
You're right, and I don't completely disagree with Pioli's frugality (yet)
He believes in building through the draft, and I think it’s a sound strategy for long term success (see the NYJ & Raiders for the opposite strategy). As long as he drafts well & locks up our in-house players it will work.
That said, I think this is a critical year for Pioli’s tenure; if he sticks with Cassel & fails to retain Carr & Bowe, and doesn’t do enough to improve the OL he’s going to lose a lot of support from the fan base.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Agreed
And that’ll be year four of his tenure. If he hasn’t figured it out by then and his efforts aren’t showing drastic improvement, it’s unlikely he’s going to. I generally say a GM deserves five years on the job before he’s canned…I think the jury is still out on Pioli, but I also think it’s fair to say he hasn’t produced the results the fans have a right to expect.
He's fortunate that the AFC West is so bad
If he’d gone to Cleveland & had to go up against THOSE teams 6x per season, he’d probably be fighting for his job right now.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I'm ok if we keep Cassel this year.
Namely because it would be pretty hard to retain Orton and Cassel, hard to keep Orton and trade Cassel (what with them having the same agent and all), Stanzi is in development, and we won’t be in position to draft an immediate ready to play QB.
I'm pretty much indifferent to Cassel
I’m just saying that if Pioli sticks with him & he plays poorly, it reflects badly on Scott. Also, there’s no reason he can’t keep both Orton and Cassel, unless Orton simply doesn’t want to be here.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
If Cassel stays, Orton leaves, and nobody else comes, I'd rather Stanzi start.
See what he has…worse case scenario, you’re drafting Barkley or RG III (in the almost impossible scenario he doesn’t declare this year).
I’m not saying a “suck for Luck” thing, but I am saying that the last thing I want is a mediocre season from Cassel and KC….where we miss the playoffs, but draft in the 12-16 range again.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
Big Question.... what happens with the Offensive Coordinator?
I’m assuming Crennel is the HC. I would have had no problem with McDaniels coming here, but he’s gone. So is the dude from NE, who his going to have his hands full at Penn State.
Do they promote Jim Zorn to help keep continuity?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
why would you want to have offensive continuity ?
last time i checked they couldn’t score td’s I don’t want that to continue
2010 AFC WEST CHAMPION KANSASSS CITY CHIEFFFFFSSSSSS
by Bleedzredngold on Jan 9, 2012 7:27 AM CST up reply actions
So, bring in a whole new system?
It’s on of the reasons that I tend to defend Cassel, me and the people at his dinner table.
Since he’s been with KC they’ve had 5 OC, at least 2-3 QB coaches. At what point do you stop bringing in new people?
They have the talent. If they get the o-line problems fixed they’ll score plenty.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Cassel is more of the problem than the o-line is
I agree that we have had too much turnover on the offensive coordinator position, but Cassel has hit his ceiling, and this team needs the QBOTF on this roster to take over for Cassell sooner than later. Maybe he’s already on the roster (Stanzi), maybe he is just an extension away (Orton), maybe he’s in this draft, but the only thing certain is new blood is needed and fast
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 7:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Wait, did I just read that right?
Cassel is more of a problem that the o-line? Are you serious? They guy spent almost every game staring up at the sky. They can’t run block, can’t protect the QB, no matter who it is, and they’re not the problem?
See: Richardson, for starters. He couldn’t block my 11 year old daughter
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
That is one player in the line
Richardson was epically bad this year, no doubt. But to claim that Cassel didn’t have plenty of time to make plays on most of the pass plays this season was clearly not watching close enough.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 7:46 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I approve this message.
The Cassel Truthers need to realize that he’s a damn fine human being but an average (at best!) QB.
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
Orton sacked once behind the same o-line
In 3 games…explain how Cassel gets sacked so much.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Jan 9, 2012 7:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I got this.
Happy feet.
Sub par pocket awareness.
“Bowe’s not open, OH SHIT!”
And sometimes feels pressure from “ghost” defenders, I swear this is true, I’ve seen it.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
by severn58 on Jan 9, 2012 7:53 AM CST up reply actions 6 recs
Bingo...
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Jan 9, 2012 8:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I know this is stupid question
because I wouldn’t really expect an honest answer, but were all of you saying all this last year when he threw 27 td’s and 7 int’s and the Chiefs won the division?
Yes, I know, you all hated him then too.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
one word.
Charles
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Charles was the QB?
Isn’t Charles going to back next year?
What has Orton ever done in his career for anyone to think he’s a serious upgrade over Cassel?
Do you really think he’s the missing piece to take the Chiefs to, and win, the SB?
If not, then what is your answer to the QB question?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Don't be stupid !!
I didn’t say Charles was the QB. But he kept pressure off of Cassel so he could hit hos first read everytime. That’s how he had 27 and 7 . The D says oh shit Charles isn’t running, then Bowe takes a 5 yard pas for a 50 yard TD. Quit with the Cassel shit, he isn’t a starter. Orton at least can go through his reads and not get dancing fever when he gets hit once. This argument that Cassel is better is just ridiculous. Open your eyes. Orton isn’t great either, but he’s leaps and bounds better than Cassel
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
by dbakerku on Jan 9, 2012 8:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Duh?
Try to be civil. I know what you meant, which is why I wrote it right underneath. I also know how football works.
Also, don’t tell me what to write and what not to.
Got it?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I Think The Difference Was Scheme And Coaching
The problem, I suspect, with Cassel is that he’s a limited QB who can only perform well in a system designed to minimize his weaknesses. Weis’ offense didn’t ask him to do much besides manage games and not commit turnovers and he was good in that role. However, he also struggled a lot when faced with good defenses (he was really only good against the bad teams in 2010). I don’t think Haley had the first idea of how to use him and that he’s not as good a QB as Orton (who is average), but in the right situation he’s an asset. Problem is that it’s usually not the “right” situation in the NFL because opposing teams gameplan to keep that from happening.
For Cassel’s future, I suspect he’s somebody who’s only good for us as a backup. He makes a fairly low salary next year, so I’m cool with it if the Chiefs keep him for 2012, but I don’t see him as a viable option past that unless he reworks his contract to get paid very little.
Actually, quite a few of him were supporting him at that point because he wasn't losing us games.
The guy regressed again and clearly is far too inconsistent to support as a long term option at QB.
Like all of you, I just want the Chiefs to win the SB
Orton is certainly not going to do it, and Cassel may very well not be the guy to do it.
I’ve asked, so many times, even though people can normally just write immature things…….
What is the right solution???
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Might not be right, but I'd throw this out....
Sign Orton
Trade Cassel
Draft a QB in a reasonable round, say the 4th and down.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Not unreasonable
But, then who’s your back-up QB?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
In this situation I'd actually have Stanzi battle with the rookie...
No sacred cows basically, best guy of the two can move into number two.
As far as rookie QB goes, I don’t see us doing anything drastic to move up and grab RG3, that being the case I’d just as soon move QB down the list of priorities, stockpile the fatties on both sides of the line.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
This, and he looked like he was continuing to improve
I don’t think many people saw an elite QB in Cassel in ’10, but he did look like he was improving so he deserved the support. That all came crashing down against Oakland & Baltimore, and continued through the ’11 season.
When the facts change, the opinions will change too.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
It crashed against Baltimore and Oakland
Because they’re lines were too big and fast for KC to handle and they manhandled KC.
You could put as much of both of those games on the defense as you can on the offense and you know it.
I don’t think any player should be evaluated on this year. In fact, I think Haley got a bit of a shafting, but it was the right move.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I was. I've been dogging him since the moment I saw him play in a chiefs uni.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
"Happy Feet"
He dances around back there like he has to pee.
Maybe that really IS what is going on. We should treat him like my 3 year old and remind him to go pee every hour.
severn--you and the rest of us.
How anyone can miss Cassel’s happy feet issues is beyond me. At this point I don’t think you CAN make that better…
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
2arda,
Richardson would stomp your 11 year old daughter into a mud hole, if he wasnt such a nice guy.
The problem is that Cassel is a scared to death stiff.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
Gee, you think so?
I guess sarcasm is lost on some people
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
It wasn't lost.
I just find it hard to believe you are that myopic regarding Cassel.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
Can anyone on here read?
How many times do I have to write the same thing?
I don’t think Cassel is an elite QB. However, to think Orton is a step up is simply fantasy.
I’ll try again…….. WHAT IS THE LONG TERM SOLUTION?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
But Orton is a step up from Cassel.
That in no way means Orton is a first ballot HOF sure-fire SB winner. But if you only marginally improve your chances of getting to the big dance, you still do it – while looking for “the guy”, whoever that ends up being.
If we’re going to develop a QB draft pick (stanzi, or someone acquired later) and try to win as much as possible in the meantime – we’ll get a better QB performance out of Orton than we will Cassel.
a C is better than a D, but neither will get you on the honor roll. But you still take the upgrade where you can til you can figure out how to pull an A.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I guess that's where I disagree that most
I’ve never seen anything out of Orton in his career to think he’s any better.
like I said above, if they can get a healthy Manning in here for two or three years, they’d probably go to the SB.
If they can swing a deal and get RG3, I’m all over it.
I have NO problem dumping Cassel for the right guy/situation, but to me, Orton is a lateral move only.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
No
Plus, they couldn’t score!!!! The defense won those games.
Hell, they beat Denver 7-3.
I’d rather he throw for 150 yards and put 28 points on the board.
What were the point totals in those three games?
19-16-7 I think.
If Cassel had done what he did during those games you folks on here would be ROASTING him for not scoring in the red zone and throwing two int’s in the Raider game that cost them a playoff spot.
Be honest.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
If Cassel had come in after we just claimed him off of waivers and put up those numbers, we'd be pretty happy about him
Not to mention just the sheer basic mechanics of his game. Orton has a much better release and throwing motion than Cassel does.
That’s not a final nail in the coffin, mind you. There are QB’s with odd / awkward throwing motions that can succeed (Rivers, for one). But Cassel is no Rivers.
Orton has the mechanics to deliver a hard throw to complete a good out route, or make a timely pass on those vital medium routes that Cassel simply doesn’t have.
If we could package Cassel’s grit, drive and determination with Orton’s sheer QB mechanics we’d be sitting pretty. But we can’t.
And I’ll take Orton’s superior technique over Cassel’s.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
You said it well
They both have excellent qualities, but they both have flaws as well they seem to prevent them from getting to the next step.
I like the way you put it. Combine the two and you’ve go a great QB!
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
That's the thing!
Cassel has never approached those kinds of numbers in THREE YEARS with this offense. For Orton to do it right away says a lot.
Simple.
Draft or acquire a FA QB that can either replace Cassel immediately, or can replace him when he goes down this year, and improve the QB position.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
Simple?
OK, who is the FA QB that is available that they would sign?
Or, who is the draft pick they could put in right away? They’re picking too far down, unless they make a big, big deal to get to Griffin, and that’s not Pioli’s style.
PS.. please don’t say Matt Flynn, because they’re not going to sign him.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I'm not the football player procurement God: Pioli is.
But he’s a fairly shitty one.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
Well, this is his year to prove you wrong, we hope
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I can agree with you on that, bro.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
You do realize you're wrong, right?
They can’t run block, can’t protect the QB, no matter who it is
Orton wasn’t sacked until his third and final Chiefs game. Two whole games, no sacky sacky.
As for Cassel, go check out his 2008 sack #s with the Patriots. People like to blame the line for Casshole’s problems. The line isn’t all elite (yet), but they also shouldn’t be expected to hold the pocket for 30 seconds at a time….
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Jan 9, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
For now, it's Cassel
Yawn, another day, more of the same blather. Anyone who thinks cutting Cassel to sign ORTON needs to put the crack pipe down. You want to bring Manning, healthy, in here for two-three years, great, you want to make a deal and get RG3, yippee. Orton? Stop, just stop.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Ok?
Can you honestly and reasonably say Cassel is a better QB than Orton?
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 7:41 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yes
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
You mean...
locking on to one receiver; inability to go through progression; locking up, scrambling and taking a sack when your main receiver isn’t open makes him better than Orton? Didn’t realize that.
Oh wait, are you the one everytime claims is Matt Cassel himself?
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 7:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
everytime everyone
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 7:51 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
People tend to read what they want
Not what is written. I’ve been dealing with that for all the years I’ve been writing.
Read what I wrote above.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Here, I'll help you..........
You want to bring Manning, healthy, in here for two-three years, great, you want to make a deal and get RG3, yippee. Orton? Stop, just stop.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
If you believe this,
then you are the one who needs to lay the crack pipe down. It’s a sad sad QB situation, when we all are so happy to see Orton play. That should tell you all you need to know about Cassel. Cassel makes Orton look like Montana
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Who needs to put the crack pipe down? Read below....
“Cassel makes Orton look like Montana”
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Ok,
Cassel makes Orton look like a starting QB, since Cassel looks like a 3rd stringer is that better. Matt give it a rest, you had a good year last year, because of the team. This year proved what you really are, thank you for riding the team to the playoffs last year, we appreciate you not messing up too bad, but your time has come to an end. See ya, too bad I think Pioli is an idiot and sees something else in you that only 1 fan in the world does. So I think we’re screwed in watching another year with you.
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Try to grow up
Just because you can’t have a decent conversation doesn’t mean nobody can.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
You win. I'm done
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
dbaker
Do you feel like I do having wasted a half hour on this .
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
absolutely
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
then why still here?
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Funny
How he won 11 with the Pats, 10 last year with the Chiefs and a division and he’s that bad?
Compare the years the two had last year?
What are you all basing this on? Three games this year?
I remember like it was yesterday when Palko came in at the end of a horrible game and drove the Chiefs down the field, for a field goal and everyone was screaming for him to replace Cassel. Well, you got your wish. Happy?
Have you watched Orton throughout his career? I by no means think Cassel is an elite QB, but you all must be drunk to think Orton is any step up over Cassel.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
I actually have watched Orton throughout his career
I think he is a much better passer/QB than Cassel.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
I can't argue with the grades from the KC Star
especially the Front Office grade. Pioli needs to improve quite a bit.
It's all a moot point
Orton will sign somewhere else, he all but said so. Cassel will be under center and hopefully the Chiefs will sign Carr and Bowe and fix the pieces they need to. Also, if everyone comes back healthy the Chiefs have far and away the best team in the AFC West.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
And we'll be stuck losing in the playoffs
Because like the Ravens, the better teams know all they have to do is stop the run and force Cassel to beat them. And even in the 2010 season Cassel couldn’t do that. Sure he’ll play great against a bad secondary but put him against a good one and he’ll collapse.
Maybe
But if they significantley upgrade both sides of line, which they will, I hope, they may not be true.
It’s not one guy, it’s the whole team and this team needs improvement in a number of areas, many of which can help the QB, no matter who he is.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
True, it is a team sport and the Chiefs need improvement in a lot of areas
but you also need those certain players who are “threats”. Every team, or most teams have at least that one guy. We had Charles last year and look what happened to our running game when he went out. But again look what happened last year when the Raiders and Ravens stacked the box to stop Charles. I’m not saying Orton would’ve gotten us to the Superbowl last year but compared to him there are areas of Cassel’s play that seem like no matter how much coaching he just hasn’t got it. If Cassel could just learn to go through his reads better that would make a big difference. Instead he gets happy feet and tends to panic when his main read is covered. I like the guy and really wanted him to succeed here but it was evident towards the end of last season that we need someone who can make opposing defenses pay for crowding the line to stop the run.
All true
Since I believe he’s going to be under center, whether any of us like it or not, I give him one year.
If they fix the lines, and he gets a full camp with healthy players, and full camp with Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin and Moaeki and he can’t get it done, then I’d say dump him for a loaf of bread.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
You also have to remember
Last year, in my opinion, one of the biggest problems the team had was nobody, and I mean nobody to play opposite Bowe.
Do you remember who was playing wide reciever opposite Bowe last year in the playoff game?? Yeah, me neither. I think they yanked him out of the stands.
If you can crowd the line and take away the only threat in the pass game, it makes it tough for any QB.
Hey Tebow, which god is helping you win? Apollo, Ares, Atena, Demeter, Kronos, Zeus, Brahma, Ganesha, Gauri, Hanuman, etc.? Shut up, play and lose.
Then again the other factor may be Haley too.
Look what Fox has done with Tebow (still don’t think he’s a great QB). Maybe Haley was trying to put a square peg into a round hole. At least with Crennel maybe Cassel will feel more comfortable. Who knows, just wish Cassel had some better natural abilities like pocket awareness.
This team needs improvement in many areas,
none more than QB. Theres a reason you’re alone in your estimation of Cassels play. It’s clear as night and day that Orton, while not being a world beater, it’s lightyears ahead of Cassel in the talent department. While I admire your persistence in sticking to your guns on the subject, the proof that proves you dead wrong has been displayed enough times this year to determine this to be fact, and not simply opinion. Orton has out performed Cassel, and by quite a large margin.
by mind the gap on Jan 9, 2012 10:07 AM CST up reply actions
cassel
Is garbage at qb give Orton a full offseason in our system our running game a improved oline and the multitude of weapons we havegot and he neverwas has and a tough defense and a competent offensive cord and you will see him shine way more than Cassel ever could
by rickrock58 on Jan 9, 2012 8:26 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm going to go on recored once again saying:
During the entirity of their careers.. Kyle Orton has been worse than Matt Cassel.
Kyle seems to go through progressions better, BUT he has a career history of having just enough impressive games to hide his really poor decision making.
Orton loses as many games for his team as he wins.
While it’s true that Cassel rarely puts a team on his back and wills them to win (and Orton has done so on a few occations).. Orton also manages to stuff a team down the back of his pants and shit all over them just as often as he impresses.
Orton is not a significant upgrade over Cassel when taken as a whole. A lot of people are letting Orton’s career day vs. the Packers fool them into believing that’s what Orton is as a QB. It’s simply not true. Some of the SAME people that have spent the last 3 years making fun of Kyle Orton…talking about how bad he is, and in general insulting the neck bearded freak… seem to have put the guy up on a pedistal after 3 games as a Chief… In which he only played well in ONE of them… and had just as much trouble scoring TD’s as Palko did before him.
Orton and Cassel are almost statistically identical. Neither is significantly better or worse than the other. If you have no faith in Cassel…. why believe in Orton? The QB solution for the future is not Cassel… But it’s not Orton either. The Chiefs need to find a new path.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 9, 2012 9:28 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
The argument in Orton's favor is that he's always been surrounded by inferior talent compared to Cassel
Other than in ’09 anyway…
Also, considering how well Orton sells the play-action fake, I’d be interested to see how well he’d play with Charles back.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Im not
Id me more interested to see how he plays in Denver as Tebow’s replacement.
That way we can keep beating the Broncos.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
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