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Variance and the Broncos

The Broncos, led by Tim Tebow, have pulled off yet another amazing last second win. This will convince many, probably including the Broncos' front office, that they need to stick with Tebow as their QB-of-the-future. He took a team in last place to a division championship and a playoff win. What's not to like? If the Broncos want to have a good shot at winning pretty much any game they play, keeping Tebow is the right move. If they want to become one of the best teams in the league and win Super Bowls, they need to dump him and find a real quarterback as soon as possible.

That doesn't make sense, does it? Isn't having a shot to win every game and being a good team the same thing? You put a good team on the field, you have a better chance to win, you put a bad team on the field, you have a worse chance to win, right? Well, not necessarily, and here's why.

Star-divide

The Green Bay Packers score 35 points per game, while the Kansas City Chiefs score about 13 points per game. So obviously a Packers-Chiefs game would see the Packers win by a score of 35-13 right? Of course not, because scoring 35 points per game doesn't mean you score 35 points in every game, it means that on average you score 35 points per game. Some days the Packers score 49 points, some days they score 14, but overall the average is 35. That is an example of one of the most underrated forces in life; variance.

Variance is the measure of, predictably, how much things vary. Sets with high variance vary a lot, while sets with low variance vary very little. So a society where all men are 6-feet tall would have low variance in height, and a society where lots of people were 4'6" and many other guys were 7' would have a high variance in height. They could both have the same average height, but the variance would be very different.

The idea behind variance is pretty simple, but many interesting effects come out of it. Because it is often easier to effect the variance than it is to change the mean, these effects can become very important. For example, making your house less likely to be robbed is very difficult. But you can change the variance in how much you can expect to lose from a robbery by simply buying insurance. Without insurance, you either lose nothing (you aren't robbed) or you lose a lot (you are robbed). But with insurance, you either lose a little (you aren't robbed but still pay premiums) or you lose a little bit more but still not much (you are robbed, but insurance gives you some money to help cover the damage).

In football it is also often easier to change the variance rather than change the mean. In this case, instead of money, we're measuring point differential. Teams with a high average point differential are good while teams with a low average point differential are bad. To improve your mean, you have to improve the team. This is very difficult, because you are competing against 31 other highly competitive teams in a zero sum game. But increasing or decreasing variance is relatively easy, since nobody cares about variance (even though they should).

So the question becomes how do we change our variance in point differential and should we try to move it up or down? The answer to the first question is pretty intuitive. To increase variance in point differential in a game, you want lower scores and fewer possessions, while decreasing variance means higher scores and more possessions. That means that a team that wants higher variance should run the ball and stop the pass, while a team that wants to pass and stop the run.

The answer to the second question is that it depends. If you're a good team, you want the variance to be low, while a bad team wants the variance to be high. If a good team has an average point differential of +6, then a variance of 0 would mean that they always win by 6, which would mean they always win. But a team with that same average but with a high variance has a chance of being upset in a given game. So a good team reduces their chance of being upset by reducing the variance in point differential, while by similar logic bad teams increase their chance of upsets by increasing variance.

And this brings us to the Broncos. As a bad team, the Broncos want to increase variance by running the ball and stopping the pass, and that's exactly what they've done. In fact, by starting Tebow, they can now run the ball more than any other team in the league, which means their chances of pulling off upsets are far higher than what you would expect from a team of their quality.

If you don't believe me, consider the Big 3 teams (Packers, Patriots, and Saints). They all have great offenses and not so great defenses, which means that each team has several drives, decreasing the variance and decreaing their chances of being upset. These three teams have been upset 6 times, and only once can you really describe the game as a shootout (Buffalo over New England). All the other times the good team was held far bellow their normal score. In fact, when we beat the Packers, this is exactly what we did. By running the ball effectively and not scoring too quickly, we limited Green Bay's possessions and gave ourselves a better chance of winning.

But building your team to increase variance is a bad idea. Sure, you'll be able to pull off more upsets, but the ultimate goal is winning Super Bowls, and thus you don't want to build a mediocre team that can occasionally pull off an upset, but build a good team that doesn't get upset. That means building a team that passes well and can stop the run, not one who can run well and stop the pass.*

*Actually, this isn't true for other reasons. You actually want to build a team that can pass and stop the pass. The short version is that even if not being able to stop the run causes you to get upset every once and a while, you're still very likely to make the playoffs if you're a good team, and so you should focus on being able to beat other playoff teams rather than beating bad teams. And, for reasons I won't explain here, good passing teams are more likely than good running teams to be good overall teams, so you need to be able to stop them with a good pass defense.

But won't this mean your bad team will be even worse? If you inherit a 2-14 team and build a lower variance team, won't you reduce your chances of winning? Yes, bud that doesn't matter. Even after their win today (notice that they won against another high variance team), the Broncos have very little chance of winning the Super Bowl. They have virtually no chance of beating the low variance Patriots and the low variance team they'd likely see in the Super Bowl (the Ravens or Texans they would have a better shot against).

When a bad team invests in the passing game, however, they either become good, which was the goal in the first place, or stay really bad, which gives them higher draft picks to continue to improve their passing game until they get good. A team like the Broncos is doomed to be like those mediocre NBA teams who are good enough to make the playoffs and miss out on the lottery yet have no chance at the title, making them perpetually mediocre. But a bad team who invests in their passing game ends up like the Colts or Lions, who both dug their way out of the bottom of the barrel in just this way, while teams like the Titans depend on their running game and stay mediocre forever.

In short, the Broncos are making a mistake if they stick with Tebow. They may pull off an upset every once in a while, but they can't expect to win as many close games as they did this year, and will likely end up at around 6-10 next year. The Chiefs, meanwhile, need to get rid of Cassel and Orton and take a risk on either Manning, Stanzi, or some other QB who has a shot at being above average. Sure it may backfire, but it's better than being mediocre.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 62 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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but with insurance you always lose something because you're paying the premium ... even if you aren't robbed, so in that sense you lose a little constantly to avoid the possibility of losing a lot (being robbed w/o insurance)

as for the Broncos and Tebow, no question this whole season was outside the norm, but I’m not convinced he can’t be a pretty decent QB someday … not an Elite Passter a la Brees, Rogers … that will likely never happen, but the guy is an athlete and a competitor, and if he improves his mechanics and their system is designed to take advantage of his strengths … I see no reason why they shouldn’t hit 8-10 wins on a regular basis

and in our division 10 wins is likely enough to get you in …

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 8, 2012 9:25 PM CST reply actions  

I'm not so sure.

I’m no expert in player development, but I would think that physical attributes (accuracy, arm strength, etc) are very hard to improve while most development occurs in areas like reading defenses, making good decisions, footwork, and the like. Tebow seems to have all the qualities you can coach, but lacks a good accurate arm, which basically just makes him a bigger and stronger version of Palko.

But I guess you can say this post assumes that Tebow doesn’t improve much from now until he retires.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 8, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Tebow and the Broncos are using the Raiders game plan

run it down your throats and throw selectively long, play good defense

That was figured out

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 8, 2012 9:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't be fooled by their win today.

Don’t forget how close we were to beating the Steelers with Palko. The Steelers are built to beat passing teams like the Saints and Patriots, not run heavy teams like the Broncos. There is no reason why the Steelers should have been favored by 9. The Patriots, on the other hand, should crush the Broncos again. It will be nearly impossible for them to keep up with Brady barring some sort of meltdown by the Pats.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 8, 2012 11:20 PM CST up reply actions  

the steelers were built to beat passing teams....

is that why tebow only got 316 yards?

seriously the kid tried his hardest. He doesn’t deserve all this hate…even if we’re chiefs fan.

by Chiefshero on Jan 8, 2012 11:23 PM CST up reply actions  

btw remember the old quote

“you play to win the game”

if you win it, good job
if you lose it, you suck

plain and simple

we could build a pro-bowl 16 win season team and still lose the SB(pats)
so did the pats deserve to win the SB or did the giants deserve to win?

simple, the one with the higher points wins. In the end, it doesn’t matter how you do it, winning is winning

by Chiefshero on Jan 8, 2012 11:25 PM CST up reply actions  

True, he did pass for 316 yards.

But he did not do it in the way a true passing team would. He wasn’t sitting back in the pocket breaking down the defense, he simply avoided pressure (if there was any) until the coverage broke down somewhere. The stat line is not one you expect of a great QB. It seems more plausible to me that it was due more to the Steelers not playing him right than for Tebow to suddenly improve in one week.

As for winning, of course. Nobody wants to turn the NFL into the BCS. But you have to recognize that the better team doesn’t always win. If they did, you’d have an undefeated team every year. The Pats in 2007 were clearly better than the Giants, the Giants just had a good game while the Pats had a bad one. The Giants certainly got lucky (one play comes to mind), but I wouldn’t say the Pats deserved to win. I would just say that the Pats had a much better chance of winning.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 8, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

yeah, it's not like he's the incarnation of PURE EVIL like Osama bin Laden or TonyG ...
seriously the kid tried his hardest. He doesn’t deserve all this hate

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 9, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions  

Please stop making this a big deal.

Steelers =

no Pouncey
no Mendenhall
no Hampton
no Clark
no Kiesel
1/4 of Big Ben

And they played on the road. The Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers, and Raiders could have beaten this team.

by Shackett on Jan 9, 2012 4:12 AM CST up reply actions  

Insurance

Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.

by Sudden on Jan 8, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I love the idea of variance.

Very well written, thanks.

You think it's coincidence that I bleed red?

by Mully on Jan 8, 2012 9:26 PM CST reply actions  

If the Chiefs had bought adequate QB insurance
But you can change the variance in how much you can expect to lose from a robbery by simply buying insurance. Without insurance, you either lose nothing (you aren’t robbed) or you lose a lot (you are robbed). But with insurance, you either lose a little (you aren’t robbed but still pay premiums) or you lose a little bit more but still not much (you are robbed, but insurance gives you some money to help cover the damage).

and not gone CHEAP on Palko as our policy.

We would still have Haley as Head Coach and Romeo as Defensive Coordinator

Rec on the post and totally agree

Not sure that Orton would not be the Guy to make us better; like Dawson, Montana, and Green did before

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 8, 2012 9:45 PM CST reply actions  

That was the quote I was looking for

A zero Sum Game.

The NFL is not that. New talent always enters the equation so the team that best utilizes what is out there, Players, schemes, or matchups wins

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 8, 2012 10:30 PM CST up reply actions  

In terms of wins, the NFL is a zero sum game.

There are 256 wins every year to be divided among 32 teams, and only 12 playoff spots. Sure, it’s possible for every team to be improve from one year to the next in terms of talent, but it won’t matter as much if everybody improves by the same amount.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 8, 2012 10:51 PM CST up reply actions  

If you get down to details, my explaination isn't 100% correct.

You are more likely to have an upset in a low scoring game because a 14-10 game can be determined by one long pass or pick 6, while a 45-30 game will only become 45-37 if the worse team gets a big play. So with the Broncos’ style of play, they put themselves in good position to take advantage of lucky plays.

At the same time, they never win by more than a touchdown. In fact, the only time they won by more than a touchdown since Tebow has started was when they beat Oakland 38-24 when they got a punt return for a touchdown.

Out of their 8 games where the final score was within 7 points, they are 7-1. In games where the margin was 8 or more, they are 1-3. Close games are more likely to be decided by more random big plays, and so a team with lots of close wins and few large wins, like the Broncos, should be considered lucky.

Besides, like Michael Vick, Tebow’s success is largely due to the fact that teams hadn’t figured him out yet for the most part. It looked like the Pats, Bills, and us had figured him out, so I don’t know why the Steelers couldn’t deal with him. I assume it’s either because they got too cocky or they just didn’t have enough people healthy.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 8, 2012 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

because that tebow is a lot different from the other tebow

if you look at how the broncos has played, it’s normally run, run pass (like us except for the 3rd and 16, we run)

tonight broncos is more pass, run, pass. He was given 21 chance to throw the ball tonight. That’s more than his last two game.

so he has things we haven’t seen yet.

by Chiefshero on Jan 8, 2012 11:18 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not so sure.

Against us, the Broncos ran 47 times and threw 22 times. Today they 34 times and threw 21 times.

So you are right that, as a percentage of the plays, he threw more today than in week 17. But considering that he was throwing for 2.3 yards per attempt against us as opposed to 15 yards per attempt today, it could be that they were simply doing what happened to be working at the time.

I think it’s more about the teams he faced rather than it being any real improvement. I remember after his good game against the Vikings saying similar things, and it turned out that he was only doing good against the Vikings. But we will see, I’m certainly willing to change my mind if he shows that he has improved.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 8, 2012 11:27 PM CST up reply actions  

i say he confused the steelers D with the bootleg

he was basically standing for 5-10 seconds at a time

you can have CBs but they can only hold on for so long. Look at the chiefs. We have orton (which people will argue is a better passer than tebow) but he’s been having horrible numbers in the last 2 games.

why? Because our O-line is horrible. We don’t give our receivers enough time to move. It’s run 10 yards and watch out. the denver o-line gave the WR time to run 10 yards, slant, run another 30 and beat the defender

remember how we lost on big plays this season. We gave the opposing team too much time in the pocket. Carr and flowers are good, not 5-10 seconds good

plus look at all the good QBs, rodger, brees, romo, manning. Time in the pocket=more time to run=more open for throws

by Chiefshero on Jan 8, 2012 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

remember the 90s chiefs?

We had an awesome o-line. Tony G, Kennsing, and all our receivers had time to move

Look at the orton/packers game. Our o-line was awesome. He stood in the pocket and gave receivers a chance to move around.

Look at oakland and denver, orton had less time and the receiver had to immediately get open. They never got the chance and our passer rating/yards went down.

it’s basic football, more time in the pocket=more open=easier to throw to.

he might not be brees, manning, or rodgers but give tebow time and he can pull a 316 game off.

btw if you look at his florida games, he basically stood in the pocket and waited a while. again more time=easier to throw to

by Chiefshero on Jan 8, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Chiefs gave up 1 SACK

in their past 3 games. To Robert Ayers on a Hail Mary attempt.

Pioli drafted Hudson and Asamoah. Both are two of the smartest linemen in their respective drafts. Both played at Center but will be Guards. This is important because centers read blitzes. The fewer blitzes the fewer offside penalties.

Shields, Szott, and Grunhard were the heart of that line because of their intelligence of the game.

Chiefs still need a Center and RT. I don’t see Hudson playing center because he’s the perfect size and speed for pulls. A Center in the Chiefs Offense needs to be able to set up the screen.

by Shackett on Jan 9, 2012 4:24 AM CST up reply actions  

Hudson will be a center

Nicknames I have coined:

Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'

by Nick Britt on Jan 9, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Just saw your last sentence

He isn’t the perfect size — too small. Size is acceptable at center in the ZBS though.

Nicknames I have coined:

Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'

by Nick Britt on Jan 9, 2012 10:27 PM CST up reply actions  

O-line play, specifically pass protection, is judged too harshly on their own merits

Take New England for an example, using rough estimation numbers here. 2007: gave up app. 10 sacks. 2008: gave up 40+ sacks. 2009: gave up app. 10 sacks again. We all know what the difference was. QB. Brady vs Cassel.

How well a QB reads the defense he is facing play to play, how quickly he scans the field and finds the open receiver after the snap, and how quickly he gets the ball out of his hands is the difference between being an “elite” o-line and leading the league in sacks given up

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 8, 2012 11:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

will tebow ever be brady or manning? Nah

will he continue winning game by allowing defense to break down and taking advantage? Yes

everybody has their niche, tebow found his tonight

by Chiefshero on Jan 8, 2012 11:47 PM CST up reply actions  

Maybe

Its unlikely his success is sustainable long-term, as his style could just be a new fad that defenses aren’t used to seeing but will eventually master, like the wildcat.

Or maybe defenses won’t…

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 8, 2012 11:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I would compare it to ben or brees' version

they don’t scramble to the left or right like tebow but they slowly side to the left or right. That sudden movement gives WR more time to run their route.

that’s one reason why steelers lost tonight, ben couldn’t slide left or right. I mean he could but not how he does normally.

Tebow takes the same idea and exaggerates it. Instead of a slow slide, he runs to the left or right

by Chiefshero on Jan 9, 2012 12:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Sure

Like I said, his strength allows him to avoid sacks and extend the play, similar to Big Ben. But again, his lack of accuracy and arm strength becomes a liability against a disciplined defense like the Chiefs did against them in week 17. Keeping Tebow in the pocket with as many defenders in pass coverage as possible is the way to beat their offense

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 12:14 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

unless elway decides to teach tebow the middle/short pass

then we’re screwed

btw I could never understand the arm strength issue. He can throw 30-50 yards easily but that’s considered weak?

I would argue that tebow lacks the ability to read his offense or he lacks depth perception. He’s either 1) throwing it to the opposite direction or 2) at the person and into the ground

maybe more time with the playbook and glasses might help him out

also he lacks decision making, i.e. cassel. He needs to stop double guessing and go for it. It’s not scan see guy open, scan again, and then throw

it should be scan,see guy open, pull the trigger

by Chiefshero on Jan 9, 2012 12:18 AM CST up reply actions  

Arm strength isn't about how far you can throw it

Its about how much velocity and zip is on the straight line throws on out routes and when coverage is tight. Tebow also has a wind up throwing motion that uses those valuable milliseconds to get the ball to the receiver before the defender can make a play on the ball. His arm strength doesn’t make up for that lost time.

I don’t think Tebow lacks the decision making. He lacks the confidence in his physical ability to make those tight throws into coverage (rightfully so). That is why a lot of his throws end up one bouncing or air-mailed, because he really does lack the ability to get the ball there on those straight-line throws, especially when he is a bit off-balance or throwing on the run

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 12:49 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

if you watch the ESPN special last week

tebow hesitates too much

Like when his TE is open but he looks around again and then throw the ball late

by Chiefshero on Jan 9, 2012 1:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Truth Lies in The Middle

I don’t think the Broncos have discovered some magical formula that the rest of the NFL will be looking to copy over the next decade. They’ve had a good run of things coming out to their favor. Give them credit for taking advantage of situations (idiot Chicago RB, crippled Steelers team). However, don’t mistake that for the ability to be a top flight NFL team over time with the players they have on hand.

by denverrefugee on Jan 8, 2012 10:32 PM CST reply actions  

they got a decent down field threat

and a QB that can throw a fastball, knuckleball, and curve to make most MLB pitchers envious

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 8, 2012 10:34 PM CST up reply actions  

Heh. He throws a great punt

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 8, 2012 10:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

Tebow IS a unique talent. I wish them semi-well with the experiment.

Unique opportunities, but unique problems.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Jan 8, 2012 11:07 PM CST up reply actions  

I really admire Tebow but I also see him like a young fighter. He'll improve in some areas

but to certain degree will keep taking a beating when he runs and take hits like he does. Eventually, it will catch up to him and he’ll slow down and not be as effective. And for awhile it will be offset by him just getting better in his technique and knowledge but I do think that his success will be shorter than a conventual QB.

by jcox31mc on Jan 8, 2012 10:40 PM CST reply actions  

What the overlooked aspect of Tebow's mobility isn't his speed

Its his strength to get out of tackles and his body control combined with said to always fall forward and inflict as much punishment on the tackler as they may on him.

His throwing technique and accuracy is what will disallow him from becoming a sustainable passing QB in the league. But as long as he can continue to make his low number of completions count at the most important times, which is possible considering the team’s dedication to running, he may continue to lead his team to victories.

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 8, 2012 10:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

None of 'em (or us) last forever.

And Tebow does have a runner’s body and reflexes, and he’s not going out of his way to take those hits. He protects himself about as well as any QB, and as long as he exercises pretty good judgement, I can see him lasting about as long as other QBs. I just wouldn’t want to have to shop for his back-up. Elway mixed it up quite a bit, for many years, and he held up for a long time.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Jan 8, 2012 11:13 PM CST up reply actions  

The problem he and the offensive scheme presents to opposing defenses is that mix of run and pass

Teams know how to beat an offense like Denver’s, but its much easier said than done staying disciplined in your defensive gamelan to not cheat up on the run in the secondary and avoid getting caught out of position to give up the big pass play.

We fell trap to it in the first game against Denver. Pittsburgh did it regularly tonight.

Law of averages dictates that Denver’s offense is bound to have one drive in every 20 or so that will be a time-consuming, multiple 3rd down conversions with short to mid-range throws and yard-eating runs. But most of Denver’s scoring drives, including tonight, always involve that big pass play made possible by linebackers or the secondary biting on that read option play action fake to draw them in and free up a receiver one on one with a defender down the field. These throws are what Tebow excels at because he can float them with no concern of real accuracy or ball velocity. These plays also allow a bit of improvisation in route running by the receivers since the safety is usually trailing from biting on the play action fake

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 8, 2012 11:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

If you stay disciplined and keep people back, Denver can run right over you

That’s more or less the problem PIT had. If Polamalu sticks to the WR, then Tebow has the power play up front, and can just run it. If Polamalu bites on the play fake, the WR gets open. Well, on the game-winning play, Polamalu bit.

It’s a pick your poison kind of offense, and KC won one meeting by taking chances down the field. In the first meeting, they didn’t want to give up big plays down the field, and Denver ran over ’em. By the time the game-winning play to Decker was made, the KC D was tired (and sore).

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Jan 8, 2012 11:48 PM CST up reply actions  

What we did the last game against them

Was not allow Tebow out of the pocket by keeping containment on the edges. Tebow isn’t likely to take risks with his lack of strength and accuracy in his throws to try to fit them into tight windows of multiple defenders. So rushing four with discipline on the edges and keeping the linebackers in the throwing lanes is the way to prevent those big plays. There were many plays in the last KC/Denver game that Tebow had a lot of time in the pocket, but just like Elway was complaining about in the media about Tebow this week, he wouldn’t “pull the trigger”.

So again, if the linebackers can stay disciplined in playing the run when necessary and not biting on fakes and the secondary keeps focus on coverage, its an easy offense to shut down.

Staying disciplined is always the wildcard

I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.

by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 9, 2012 12:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I would like to point out that you don't have to have an Elite QB to win it all.

9 comp / 21 attemps
123 total passing yards
42.9 comp %
5.9 yards per pass
0 TDs
2 Int

Is that a Super Bowl Champion QB? You bet!!!

Oh, and today that very QB is considerd “Elite”.

How do you win a Super Bowl without an “Elite” QB you ask?
A good running game (Denver has this)
A great defesne (Denver as has this)

by DivineGrace on Jan 9, 2012 3:32 AM CST reply actions  

Denver won a playoff game - not a Super Bowl

2011 – GB vs Pitt – 563 yards of passing between both teams
2010 – Indy vs New Orleans – 611 yards passing between both teams
2009 – Pitt vs Arizona – 700 yards passing between both teams
2008 – New England vs NYG – 621 yards passing between both teams
2007 – Indy vs Chi – 711 passing yards between both teams

NFL is a Frachise Quarterback league. Super Bowls are played in Warm Weather. The Ball Goes Into The Air at 8 PM.

by Shackett on Jan 9, 2012 4:35 AM CST up reply actions  

seems yards per SB been going down recently

also chicago did not have a franchise QB nor did arizona.

give it a few years went manning gets old, brady retires, and ben retires due to injury

who’s going to be the next brady? Ain’t luck that’s for damn sure. Newton? Maybe. If he can keep his int down

by Chiefshero on Jan 9, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Which QB had those stats?

If it was an elite QB that’s a pretty bad day at the office.

As for winning a Super Bowl without an elite QB, you’re right, you can. But let’s look at the last couple Super Bowl Champion Teams:

Packers
Saints
Steelers
Giants
Colts
Steelers
Patriots
Patriots
Buccaneers
Pats
Ravens
Rams

Of those, Many had great offenses, and a couple had great defenses. Of those with great defenses, the Giants were a running team, Bucs sucked at passing and rushing, The Ravens were a running team, and the Steelers were a passing team.

In short, the last team that could be said to have a good defense and good running game that won the Super Bowl won because of a miraculous passing play and a good performance by their defensive line. The last one before them won theirs 10 years ago. Clearly, if you want to win the Super Bowl, it’s better to focus on your passing game than your running game.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 9, 2012 1:51 PM CST up reply actions  

simple answer: LUCK

you can be as good as the 16-0 pats but if luck is not on your side, you fail

by Chiefshero on Jan 9, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions  

Simple answer: pass rush

Tom Brady had .3 seconds to pass in that game so his receivers weren’t able to get as open.

by Knightwolfbr on Jan 9, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions  

Which QB had those stats?

That was Big Ben’s stats from his 1st Super Bowl. The Steelers were NOT a passing team at the time, they had a great running game/defense and THAT is why they won it all.

by DivineGrace on Jan 10, 2012 1:35 AM CST up reply actions  

1 hour after tebow beats the steelers

we have a post claiming why tebow sucks and why Pittsburgh should have won

stay classy KC

by Chiefshero on Jan 9, 2012 1:00 PM CST reply actions  

I never said the Steelers should have won.

Tebow does suck, and the Steelers would usually be the better team, but injuries are part of the game, and the Steelers, injuries or not, let Tebow throw for 15 yards per pass. Besides, this wa a good matchup for the Broncos. We’ll see how they do against the Patriots.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 9, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Dump Orton and Cassel and take a chance on a 5th round afterthought in Stanzi?

Now, that would be a dream come true for Broncos fans. I sincerely hope you do. Anybody have Pioli’s address? I’d like to try to talk to him to tell him what a good idea that would be.

Hey guys, I’m not trolling here. I’m just expressing my disagreement with the OP. I do have a couple very close friends who are Chiefs fans, and I personally would hate to see such a debacle to happen to them.

I love my wife.

by AZDynamics on Jan 11, 2012 12:12 AM CST reply actions  

Absolutely.

We already know that Orton and Cassel are average at best, and you’ll never win the Super Bowl with an average QB unless you have the perfect team around him. Stanzi has enough potential where it’s worth the risk.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 11, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions  

Who are "we"?

You still have never explained to me how a 306 yd per game average and 106.0 QBR, with no running game, is “average.”

It’s amazing how so many people are willingly blind . . .

I love my wife.

by AZDynamics on Jan 11, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions  

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