Looking on to the offseason: Free agent O-linemen
by NigerianNightmare on Jan 4, 2012 5:55 PM CST
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Oh, the Vermeil Era. A time when Kansas City was actually a Super Bowl contender. The only thing really holding them back was the lack of a defense (basically the opposite of today). Priest Holmes, Tony Gonzalez, Dante Hall, Larry Johnson and Trent Green were some of the superstars of that era, but the real work, the work that made this offense so unstoppable, was the work done up front.
Some of you may remember 2003, when Kansas City went 13-3. Consequently, this was also the year when Kansas City's line was constructed and about as full of talent as any offensive line in the history of professional football. Look at this lineup, that we all wish so much to have back.
LT: Willie Roaf. Future HoF, one of the best tackles ever.
LG: Brian Waters. Possible HoF.
C: Casey Wiegmann. Pro Bowler.
RG: Will Shields. First-ballot HoF, and probably the 3rd best offensive lineman EVER (behind Anthony Munoz and John Hannah).
RT: John Tait. Pro Bowler.
Can you recall a time when a defensive front seven was able to slow them, and the rest of our offense, down? It was a simply impossible task. How much fun would it be to have that 2003 offense again? Star running back and fullback, great receiving corps, and a possibly great QB (still shaky on Orton's future), along with an incredibly dominant line (built through both draft and free agency, like the 2003 version), and an actual defense that can keep the other teams away from the endzone?
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Most of us here on Arrowhead Pride would agree that we should take either Jonathan Martin, Riley Reiff or David DeCastro in the first round of the upcoming draft. Problem is, we can't have them all and there are two positions worth replacing (Right tackle and left guard). We can draft DeCastro and put him at guard, draft Martin and put him at RT, or get Reiff who can play both. Whichever we choose, the other position needs to be addressed through free-agency. So I have compiled a list of offensive linemen who will be free agents soon.
Louis Vasquez, Guard, San Diego.
Obviously, San Diego would be stupid to let him go. Though he has always been a dominating lineman, he was often overshadowed by Dielman, McNeil, and Hardwick. He's big, fast, agile, young and nasty as it gets. Not to mention he mauled Ray Lewis on the goalline during a Monday Night game, a maneuver that I found eerily similar to this...
Bobbie Williams, Guard, Cincinnati
via prod.static.bengals.clubs.nfl.com
11-year veteran and 35 year-old guard/right tackle Bobbie Williams is obviously not our lineman of the future, and though nimble his power-blocking abilites and 350 pound frame may not be appreciated in KC like they were with the Bengals. Just throwing out names.
Carl Nicks, Guard, New Orleans
via media.nola.com
Nicks is the guy that everyone wants and not a lot of teams can afford. Huge, talented, smart, and if you ever watch Saints games, incredibly agile. If there's a screen called, he's always the first one out there, and oftentimes he'll bowl someone over and into the ground. Kansas City has the money, New Orleans doesn't. He's expensive, but oh so worth it.
Ben Grubbs, Guard, Baltimore
Mobility, strength, talent, attitude, free agent. All things that Kansas City needs. Baltimore will probably keep him, but Grubbs would be quite the addition if he came here. Not to mention the game against the Ravens next season could be a nice storyline.
Vince Manuwai, Guard, formerly Jacksonville
Yes, he was a free agent since last year which means that a lot of teams including KC passed on him. But I'm just throwing out options. He's a power-blocker that has a good pulling ability and since he went to Hawaii he has to be an above-average pass protector.
Kareem McKenzie, Tackle, New York
He's a good fit for our system, if possibly a little old. He's a tall, wide run-blocking natural Right Tackle that has done wonders for New York's great running attack (up to this year). Good in pass-protection as well.
Rob Sims, Guard, Detroit
Big, fast, mobile guard with a nasty mean streak. Could be a relatively cheap option and could help our offense a lot.
Demetrius Bell, Tackle, Buffalo
via rayonsports.com
Great pass-protecting tackle that is not as physical as we might like in the run game (basically the opposite of B-Rich). Better suited to left than right tackle, but he could end up working in Kansas City.
Leonard David, Guard/Tackle, Detroit
Leonard is a big-ass man. 6'6, nearly 390 pounds at his peak during his career, the former #2 overall pick in 2001 has blossomed into a very successful player at both guard and tackle. He started at left tackle in Arizona, moved to right guard, and though his career there was successful and he established a reputation as one of the best guards in the league, he went on to Dallas where he got a bit of the national spotlight and got some recognition in the form of Pro Bowls. He then went to Detroit, where he has had an uneventful stint. They probably won't resign him, so he'll be a free agent again next year. Once again, not a potential long-term player. He's a ten year veteran, that I believe can still play at a high level. Unfortunately, his most feared talent, power blocking, will not be appreciated at guard in our ZBS. He could play, he could lose some weight for his current 355 pounds, or he could play right tackle like he did in Arizona. Just an option.
Thoughts? Ideas? Others I left out?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Wrong John
That ain’t Tait pictured, that’s Welbourn
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 4, 2012 6:01 PM CST reply actions
Yeah, I know.
But it was the closest picture I could find of all the star O-linemen in that group together.
by NigerianNightmare on Jan 4, 2012 6:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'll say this, the premise of needing to replace Lidja is a bit premature, as Wieg's is
also a weak link and drafting or signing a FA is a real possibility. That would leave us with Hudson as a possible replacement if Ryan couldn’t hack it, gets hurt, etc. I was surprised he was our RG last year, then moved to LG this year. I know most think that last years second round pick is slated as the next center, but if we draft or sign an experienced center, that would place Hudson in a position he played really well in college. We are assuming he will be good at center but have no knowledge this is so. As to your post, I really would like to see the o-line fixed in free agency and let the draft play out from there.
Damn, put Davis on the poll twice on accident.
Sorry, guys.
by NigerianNightmare on Jan 4, 2012 6:26 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Not paying Nicks that much money to play in a blocking scheme he's never played in.
Not to mention I don’t think NO lets him get anywhere near the open market. He’ll be signed or franchised/dealt. I like Vasquez option alot but he’s another guy I’d be surprised if he’s available as the Chargers could conceivably lose 2 of the 3 guys you mentioned(or all 3) to retirement due to medical issues.
Davis is too fat, Williams is too old. Mackenzie is a guy I really like but is only a marginal upgrade over the 2010 version of Brich.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Chris Myers is another guy not on the list.
But I thinks he’s a FA but again, like Nicks and Vasquez that I doubt he hits the open market. Scott Wells might be worth a look because he fits what we need in a center and could come fairly reasonably priced(and most likely will be available). Move Hudson to guard where he played really well this year and Lilja to depth.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Wells was who I was going to mention
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 4, 2012 7:16 PM CST up reply actions
New offensive scheme since there will be a new head coach
and new offensive coordinator next year.
So can’t really say whether or not Nicks would be a fit for the blocking scheme.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Jan 5, 2012 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
They aren't changing our blocking scheme when every player we have and our young stud blockers are ZBS players
Not to mention we have a one cut runner who’s pretty good. Charles or something?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 5, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Albert and Asamoah could work in either scheme
Hudson might, but that is a bigger unknown
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 5, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
Assuming Hudson can play C, it's a fit for either system.
You’d just need an Erik Williams or Larry Allen as the 2nd G.
would of ≠ would've
Nice Post. Opens up more possibilities for short-term FA plus 2nd- or 3rd-round picks,
where some of us (me) were thinking 1st round must be used for OL.
would of ≠ would've
my only concern is ... how old ARE those guys?
I can’t see signing a 35 yo anything … now, a 26 or 27 yo young vet just reaching his peak, I’m down with it
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Not looking for long-term fix, but keep the position group on the up-tick,
while having the patience to develop a very good 2nd- or 3rd-round pick.
Not saying this is end-all, be-all, but it’s nice to see these options.
would of ≠ would've
McKenzie is pretty much done......I see and have seen a lot of him here in NY
……………….Penn St. dude and a classy individual but sorry to say he needs to be put out to pasture soon. Now if you could jump across the OL here in NY and grab JPP! Then you’d have something real special.
"Well now she's gone, even though I hold her tight........... I lost my love, my life that night."
While I agree that we need better O linemen
I seem to recall a different 13-3 team than you do. Yes, we had the best offensive line in football. But that team was not a Super Bowl contender. I remember at least two teams that they scraped by, Denver and Green Bay, with the help of a touchdown return on each game by Dante Hall. And that’s not counting other times Hall was the difference between a win and loss. In the second game with Denver, the defense was gashed so badly by Portis that it was just embarassing.
And it seems like nobody could stop the offense, but it wasn’t like every single game was a high scoring offensive clinic. The reason there were no punts in the Indy game was because their defense was as horrid as ours. Indy was completely spanked in the next round by the Patriots.
Other than that, I agree that O line is one of, if not the top priority this offseason.
by old_school on Jan 4, 2012 9:11 PM CST via mobile reply actions
The return he had against the Ravens too was sick that year
We beat GB in OT on the Trent to Kennison TD
That Ravens TD
where they had to kick twice b/c they were offsides on the kickoff! Hahahaha love it!
Your eyes tell you more than any statistics can.
Its not just the Money............
Absolutely agree a proficient line is the key. Who can forget what those guys in the picture did for “Trint” Green, a f/a after thought—Holmes, and 2.7?
I wanted to draft Nicks in 08 but can’t argue with who we took in the 5th instead, and interestingly whether we get to keep Carr or can entice Nicks or anyone remotely of his caliber to sign with us is the Big Elephant in the room.
If you want to play for Championships and the SB, and if the money being offered is the same why would you come here? We are looking at our 5th OC in 5 years. Our 6th HC in 13 years. Our record is 36-60 the last 6 years. We last won a playoff game sometime in the 90’s. And we have an Owner & GM who make tight jeans look baggy.
I would think this is doubly true in the case of interior lineman as they are the ones getting pounded and not getting the glory. So other than the money it really is about TEAM for them. And objectively if your team in comparison to other potential teams is in disarray both on the field and off……………
Actually, I think Green and Holmes were DV's 1st choice in St. Louis.
Could be wrong on Faulk, but I think Holmes’s injury was what made bringing Faulk over from Indy a priority, and we all know that Warner only got his chance because Green was injured.
The thing I didn’t like about that DV beginning and the Haley beginning was trading picks for veterans. That’s what puts teams into total re-build down the road, although Pioli came out even on the draft picks, with the 2nd for Tony Gonzalez. I still wonder what the team would’ve been with more attention to the trenches. Roaf and Tait were definitely nice ones, though. But those 2nd-rounders could’ve done a lot for interior linemen.
would of ≠ would've
We have to get a new RT, but I would like to see what Richardson could do at guard.
I hope we at least sign him cheap as a swing tackle.
I like that idea
but I’d still sign one of these guys to make sure we have a solution.
KC needs 2 new OLinemen this year
I could see it being any combination of solutions to get to that end result.
My best guess: Draft an OT to start for B Rich, bring him back as the swing tackle.
Lilja starts for one more year, and they draft a G/C in the mid rounds to develop as his sucessor.
I don’t see them starting 2 new guys on the OL next year, right off the bat.
BRich is a good back up.
I hope he excepts it after starting for two years.
Nicks and Martin
Would be a dream off-season for the Oline.
That, or a later pick at OT, who can push B-Rich.
What happens with Nicks will be very interesting to watch, this offseason.
would of ≠ would've
o-line
Isn’t our offense structured for zone blocking in the running game? I think this is because of Jamaal Charles’s speed in getting to the outside of the defense and springing a huge run. I think this is why Scott Pioli has drafted Asomah and Hudson because of their ability to pull to the outside.
I think this will factor into who we choose in the draft, whether Decastro or Martin or a free agent fits our blocking scheme.
I don't think they're tailoring the line for JC.
And I’m not certain how committed they are to the system, long-term. Hudson works fine at C in a power-blocking system. Clearly Wiegs and Lilja were an upgrade over what they HAD, but they’re one bruiser away from doing either one.
would of ≠ would've
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