Chiefs Reportedly Deny Bears Interview Request For Jim Zorn
by Joel Thorman on Jan 31, 2012 1:48 PM CST
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The Kansas City Chiefs reportedly had not one, but two employees that drew the interest of the Chicago Bears. We know the Bears already got one Chief -- Phil Emery, the now-former college scouting director, who was introduced on Monday as the Bears new GM.
Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times cites a league source who says the Bears also requested permission to speak with Jim Zorn for the same position in Chicago.
The Chiefs denied the request, according to Jensen's report.
Zorn is under contract in KC and the job in Chicago was not a promotion so the Chiefs did not have to allow the interview to happen. This is common in the NFL. Teams routinely deny requests like this. Maybe I'd have a beef if this were a promotion but it was for the same position. And, In a way, it's a good thing that other teams in the league want your coaches or, in the case of Emery, your front office members.
Now, here's a question fans will be wondering: Does the Chiefs denying the request for Zorn make him a player in the offensive coordinator hire? The only report I've seen concerning Zorn was the KC Star's Sam Mellinger a while back saying he doesn't expect him to be the next OC.
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Franchise and trade
for Zorn and Cassel.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
Move Zorn to LT
Make Branden Albert place kicker…his natural position.
by cheapham on Jan 31, 2012 2:04 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Then move Succup to QB
so Cassel can go back to TE
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Could be a case where if RAC can't get anyone to be the OC
Zorn will get the job by default so they won’t let him go.
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
I doubt Zorn is OC ... if he was "the choice" (at least a clear choice) they likely would have announced it long ago and moved on to other things
my guess is they do want him to stick around, he is familiar with the players, system, etc … and perhaps want to give him some kind of promotion (Asst OC?) without him being “that guy”
should know more in a week … stay tuned, sports fans!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Could be that if they don't get their guy that they want Zorn there as a safety net.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
That's a scary thought...
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Hard to say.
Can’t really use his time in Washington as an example because he had too much on his plate and they’re the east coast Raiders in that they were/are a complete mess of a franchise. Maybe he’s a guy that would make a decent OC without the HC duties looming over him.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 2:00 PM CST up reply actions
Here's The Thing
He’s been coaching a long time and the only team that’s ever given him an OC position was Utah State (1992-1994). He’s also worked for four teams as an assistant coach since then (and a second time for Seattle) and nobody was apparently interested in giving him an OC job until he got to Washington, where he was so bad he got relieved of those responsibilities.
I realize that Washington was a bad situation under Snyder, but just because Snyder is an idiot doesn’t mean he was wrong for relieving Zorn as playcaller. As I recall, the Redskins fans thought he was horrible.
I think what hurt Zorn is he was pulling double duty
He was hired to be the OC but no one wanted the HC job at that time so he was PUt in as HC at the last second and it was all down hill from there
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
You May Be Right
Snyder did everything ass-backward…he decided to start hiring assistants and coordinators and then thought he’d just plug in a head coach. Can’t imagine why any head coach wouldn’t want a job where the owner picks his staff for him.
He was originally hired to be the OC in Washington
and was thrust into the HC role like a week later. Hard to blame the guy for being overwhelmed and out of his element given those circumstances…especially given the goofy rosters that Snyder always cobbles together. He seems worthy of an actual shot at OC IMO.
He's also coached alot of staffs where the head coach had a heavy hand in the offense.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
yep.... maybe being OC for the Chiefs isn't as glamourous a job as us fans would like to think
If they don’t hire someone from one of the SB teams, this is going to be another “Clancy Pendergast-only person who would take the job”, or Zorn hire
It does make the OC search a bit more complicated though doesn't it?
Come work for us but you don’t have any say on debateably the most important offensive assistant position.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
You think Muir had any say
in Zorn being hired by the Chiefs?
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
Much different situation
Anything Muir-related is always the exception to the rule.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think coordinators have that kind of power.
Input yes, but not hiring power. I don’t think that makes any difference whatsoever in the OC search.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
shouldn't the new OC implement his own system?
I’d want Zorn to forget about anything the Cheifs tried on offense last year
The offense sucked against Denver.
Both games.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
So you want to stick with Muir
only thing that was different is that Haley didn’t have veto power of the plays anymore
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
And RAC actually gameplanned
You know, watch tape, have a plan, that sort of thing.
Didn't Haley call him a "QB guru"?
I remember something about that. I’m hopeful for his impact on our QBs with a full offseason, assuming he stays.
Maybe he'll make Stanzi the Manzi!
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
Or Cassel the King?
Don’t think I’ll hold my breath on either happening.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Dont get all wrapped up in anything that is said about a staff member from one of the figures within the organization.
What do you think that Haley would have said " yeah bring this guy in!" and then tell the media “Yeah, this guy is a real piece of shit coach, but fits in perfect with what we are trying to do around here.” ? Come on now. Any coach hired by a the team is going to get endorsed. Then that coach gets fired for sucking ass and then we get back to square 0. The only real constant in KC. Stuck in neutral while the rest of the league passes by.
by readANDgold58 on Jan 31, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe they are giving Zorn prep time "interview" like everybody else
let him take a step back and look at everything and come up with his own offense and present it in an interview. I doubt he would want to interview pitching the Haley/Muir offense.
Zorn has a WCO background.
I imagine his offense would look more like that than the EP offense that Haley tried to install.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
For Cassel, yes.
Orton and Stanzi’s arms aren’t that bad, though.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
Maybe it fits.
We have big strong RAC recievers not really speedster deep threats. and IF we stick with cassel it might work better.
I'm willing to try anything different at this point.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
Even the Oopty Oop offense?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
HAHA
When I read this I immediately thought WCO was wrestling league and wondered if Zorn was an ex-wrestler.
by Spiderwomn69 on Jan 31, 2012 2:26 PM CST up reply actions
This might have more to do
with Pioli telling Emery to not F with any of our coaches. Find your own…
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
If Pioli was that smart he would have told Emery that BEFORE he left and then this wouldn't be a story
Sounds like they asked for permission after Emery was hired so I guess Pioli and Emery didn’t discuss it prior to him taking the job? I’m starting to think the whole front office is dysfunctional
Maybe QB coach was not at the forefront of Emery's throught process.
Of course, that would negate another opportunity to bash the Chiefs’ front office.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
I dont think there is anything wrong with telling your former employees
to leave your coaching staff alone unless you are willing to give them an upgrade in title. GB straight up told there guys and I think that is the best way to go about keeping your team together.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
but when Philbin left GB it was discussed to not try to hire anyone on the GB staff
Just saying that the discussion should have taken place and made this a non-story to begin with, or, the Chiefs are running out of options for OC and don’t want to lose Zorn and be left with only Muir and Carthon as options
The report makes it sound like the Bears asked for permission BEFORE hiring Emery
Probably at the behest of Lovie Smith. I don’t think Emery had anything to do with this.
I got the same impression.
I have a hard time seeing Lovie wanting Zorn to be the QB coach on his own…
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
They have a need
Zorn is pretty highly regarded and on an offensive staff in transition. Not an unreasonable scenario.
Also, Emery has barely been on the job a day. He’s already making calls about the QB-coach position? AND we’re already hearing about it? Usually head coaches make those calls/moves anyway. They build their own staffs.
Lets see man
If you go to a new team… The first thing you are going to ask is what coaching positions you need filled still. They say QB coach… Who do you think the first person you are going to call is? People you know..
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Right on
It’s not a huge deal either way. Just seems like we shouldn’t be making judgements on Pioli/Emery, their relationship, and their professionalism based on this…especially since we don’t really know the details.
I agree
I have a friend who is a HUGE bears fan he keeps telling me they can find anyone to fill it. They have talked to Greg Olson, Dowell Loggains and Dirk Koetter. All of them turned down… They are running out of people LOL
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Hah
Given Cutler’s fiery relationship with Martz…perhaps no QB coach wants to touch the guy anyway.
Problem With Cutler
Is the same problem every other Chicago QB has ever had. You can’t run a pass-heavy attack in Chicago. The weather conditions don’t allow it. That’s why their franchise passing leader is a guy who played in the 1950s.
Who Wants To Work With Lovie Smith?
That guy is basically a dead man walking…he got rid of Mike Martz and all Martz did was run an offense that turned Matt Forte into a star (he was average his first two years) while getting a serviceable passing attack with a bunch of scrub WRs.
I couldn’t believe they opted to keep Smith for another year.
I wont even get started on that whole Smith thing!
Every year I get a good laugh at my buddies face when Lovie is retained!!!
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Martz got the QB killed with all of the 7 step drops though
and they don’t have the oline for that and Martz would not fix it
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Many of the comments above make me wonder just how much Haley had to say in
many of the hires and/or players brought in. I’m thinking that that is where the friction started. How would any head coach like being told who his OC or DC were going to be and what players or FA were being brought aboard. Did Haley actually want Cassel and Vrabel? Weiss? Certain FA’s? Certain draft picks? Were there players that Haley wanted that they just told him "NO’? I wonder if we’ll ever find out the truth? Haley may have been put into some un-workable situations and I definately don’t picture him as a “YES” man. Wouldn’t this be a difficult situation for most head coaches if it turns out to be true?
What comments above are you referencing?
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
Dont bite...
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
by KSU-Chief on Jan 31, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
theres our new OC boys
God help us. Chadhia was right, no coordinator wants to come here. The 2012 season has already gotten off to a rocky start
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 2:49 PM CST reply actions
Did I miss an announcement somewhere?
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
They are just waiting for McD
to finish the SB up… He turned us down so he could get a SB ring real quick and get more money… I’M KIDDING!!!
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
This would be a rather hilarious scenario though
Go to the Pats for a couple weeks to earn a double paycheck for the 2011 season, and then skip off to KC the next season.
If McD didn’t worship the ground that Hoodie walks on…it wouldn’t be the most unbelievable scenario, especially given the craziness of his tenure in Denver.
And if he wasn't already under contract.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
I Don't Think It Means Anything
Other than that the Chiefs don’t want to go looking for a new QB coach. The only way Jim Zorn becomes the new OC is if nobody else wants the job…because if the Chiefs wanted him to be OC, they’d have hired him by now.
this
The only way Jim Zorn becomes the new OC is if nobody else wants the job
that is what I’m saying
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 2:53 PM CST reply actions
Or if the Chiefs don't want anybody else
It’s not exactly a robust year for OC candidates anyway. Saunders and Jackson are enticing, but their histories with the Chiefs aren’t exactly stellar, and that has little to nothing to do with the current staff really.
Also, there’s nothing wrong with doing due diligence and exploring other options before hiring internally. See: the hiring of Romeo Crennel as head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs.
No one wants to work with Matt Cassel
Our OC is going to be either A :Zorn, B: Carthon , C: Muir….again
Pioli can’t hire outside his little box
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
He has a very narrow view of people to pick from. I remember the criticisms of Carl Peterson when he hired Herm…that it was basically a desperation buddy hire. It took Peterson 20 years to get that insular with his coaching searches. It’s taken Pioli three years.
I predict that whoever the Chiefs hire as OC will underwhelm everyone.
who could they hire that would "excite"?
not trying to be funny just asking the pickens are looking slim.
It would excite me
if they got someone outside his circle of trust
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yep. He should definitely hire someone he doesn't trust.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Jan 31, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How about someone that's not his buddy
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:19 PM CST up reply actions
inside the circle / outside the circle
if they suck it doesnt matter. I just want someone who gets results regardless of where they came from.
Agreed
In the end, I don’t care if he hires every coach Bill Belichick ever fired if they get results. I was just pointing out that perhaps one of the reasons we haven’t been more successful is because he seems to lean too heavily on former Belichick coaches and players.
Hue Jackson Would Excite Me
That would a) be a hire from outside Pioli’s circle and b) be a guy who has produced good results in limited opportunities as an OC.
If I had to bet, though, I think we end up with Zorn. Not because Zorn is good or because the Chiefs want him, but because I don’t think anyone else wants to come here and work for Pioli’s team. That’s how bad I think Pioli’s rep is outside of KC right now.
by UCrawford on Jan 31, 2012 3:21 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
totally agree
He is becoming an albatross around this teams neck
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
He is a hole in 2 on a par 5 around this teams neck?
I thought they got rid of Haley already?
What is with all the golf talk?
I corn-fused ya’ll!
If it was that bad here, I'd think some of the old hands would be jumping ship.
Romeo, Thomas, Gibbs. Those guys are grown up enough that they wouldn’t live with a totally crappy situation just to keep a job.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Where Would They Go?
Romeo wasn’t a HC candidate anywhere else. Nobody was lining up to hire him as anything other than a DC. Gibbs isn’t even a DC candidate…he was so bad with New Orleans that he was lucky to get a position coach job so quickly. Thomas is a Chiefs HOFer…I suspect he’s sticking around more because it’s KC than anything.
The Rams apparently wanted to interview him.
And they were denied permission.
"Piracy is the new radio." -- Neil Young
Doesn't it have to be somebody who's not already on the staff?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Ah. Well, I'm still wondering about ours, too.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
So, it would have applied retro-actively if we hadn't hired Romeo?
I thought the point was to get minority coaches interview and networking opportunities with different teams. The Rooney rule is confusing.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I think
your own guy doesn’t count only if you don’t hire him.
"Piracy is the new radio." - Neil Young
Yeah, that's what I think is weird.
I thought the point was to let minority coaches make the rounds, not necessarily to ensure that they got jobs.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Well, it is.
Just because there are exceptions doesn’t mean it fails to do that.
"Piracy is the new radio." - Neil Young
Actually,
I just wanna know who we interviewed :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
We Interviewed Crennel
And then hired him. Rooney Rule didn’t even come into play. If we’d hired a white guy, we would have had to interview a minority candidate other than Crennel.
No, I meant I wanna know EVERYbody we interviewed.
For fan-service and gossip purposes.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I Think It Went
Fisher, Ferentz (who turned down an invite, I believe), Philbin, and someone else I can’t remember.
Yup
Rooney Rule only matters if the guy you eventually hire isn’t a minority. Actually, I think it might only apply if the guy isn’t black. I seem to recall that Ron Rivera didn’t qualify as a Rooney Rule interview or hire.
Wikipedia is my friend. I hope the evil entertainment industry doesn't kill it.
As of June 15, 2009, Rooney Rule requirements now apply to all searches for senior football operations positions within the NFL, regardless of a team’s title for that position. It now also includes all ethnic minorities, not just African Americans.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Ah
Good, they changed it.
I still stand by my position that if the NFL wants to encourage real diversity, they’ll focus more on supporting minorities in their assistant coach and quality control positions rather than senior leadership. That’s where people start building their connections and qualifications. And that’s what gets them hired.
When I was younger, I was convinced that the 49ers were run by the mob.
Couldn’t see how they could afford to pay all that talent. And, they had an Italian-sounding GM.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And Thomas for DC, right? Over on the darkside.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Thomas I Think Could Get A Job Elsewhere
I just suspect that he might prefer KC because it’s where he played and won a Super Bowl.
Or because he's 100 years old and his wife is from the neighborhood.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
They could just go to the house.
I know I would. Retire and build a boat or something. Or, Romeo could probably get a TV gig pretty easily if he got bored.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I agree about Jackson
I think he’d be a great hire. Not sure he would want to come to KC though. Just because he now hates the Raiders doesn’t make him hate KC less from his time as a Raider. He was apparently quite angry with us after their home shutout this year. Given our defense’s performance in that game, he may not be super excited to work with Crennel (and vice versa).
Did He Say He Hated Kansas City?
He was only in Oakland for two years…it’s not like he was Al Davis’ illegitimate son or anything.
Word was that he was pretty angry at the Chiefs after the game in Oakland this year
Perhaps specifically Haley. Not sure though.
I Suspect That Might Have Been Haley
Who was, to be blunt, a fucking pissant with more than one opposing coach. Haley was bush league when it came to professionalism.
Heh, agreed
I’m just saying…a history like that can make these kinds of hires a little more tenuous.
Doesn't Bother Me
Way I see it, as long as Jackson is willing to take a job in KC, he’s probably cool enough with the Chiefs to not even give it a second thought.
Indeed
I’d love the hire if they brought in Hue Jackson. He’s definitely on the top of my list.
I don't see why he would be.
My only worry about Jackson is that he’s a roamer. Eleven jobs in 25 years, or something like that. I’d like to get some offensive stability for a change. That’s why I’m glad they’re keeping Zorn as QB coach.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Context Matters
Most of those departures were to take a promotion, except for Atlanta and Oakland. And in those two instances, there was a new GM who came in and decided to clean house.
Don't get me wrong, I'd be excited if we hired him.
Just nit picking.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
That Particular Nit
I don’t consider to be much of a negative. NFL coaching is a transitional business…lots of guys move around every couple of years, even though they’re good coaches.
Meh.
Art Shell came over from the dark side. That rivalry stuff means a lot more to the fans than it does to players and coaches.
"Piracy is the new radio." -- Neil Young
I'm not sure you can use the "outside his circle" argument
Sherman was on our radar and has ties to no one.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe I missed the connection, but did Pioli know the new ST coach before he was hired?
For that matter, did Pioli have any connections to Zorn?
Anyway, I thought OC was going to be Romeo’s call.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm Sorry, But What Did He Do That I Should Be Impressed With?
From what I can tell the dude doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page. What has he done in his career?
That's not the point.
You act like the only people the Chiefs will hire are those from their inner circle.
"Piracy is the new radio." -- Neil Young
As per above
Sherman who we missed out on has no ties.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
I thought that would be the case too until the Sherman news
Follow that up with a ST guy no one is tied to and maybe theres some hope yet. And sorry that was a reply fail.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
I Guess I Should Put It This Way
I’m impressed with an “out of circle” hire if it’s a guy that quite a few people wanted or who is a young up-and-comer. I’m not impressed with it if it’s a retread that hasn’t done anything and that nobody seems to know or care about.
Maybe Tom McMahon turns out to be good. For now, he’s a “meh”. Mike Sherman, to me, is definitely a “meh”.
Its funny because there were at least 3-4 teams that wanted Sherman
So does that not qualify as a guy that quite a few people wanted?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
They Interviewed Him
And then passed. Sorry, but the guy was in charge of Green Bay’s offense during some of Favre’s less impressive years and didn’t do a hell of a lot at Texas A&M.
Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe he’s Chan Gailey. But I don’t see it.
The UC might have some justified house-related pissiness happening today.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
You Had To Bring That Up
And here I was taking my mind off of it.
The realtor has been notified and is researching the town’s rules on improvements as we speak. :)
Good luck with that.
We need more housing value and less pissiness.
"Piracy is the new radio." - Neil Young
I Just Want To Sell The Fucking Place
And not have to pay extra money to do it. If I were to break even, I’d be okay with it. I wouldn’t be happy (because that’s a loss of about $20K) but I’d be okay with it because I wouldn’t be paying $1500 a month for a place I don’t live in.
At least Pioli isn't trading draft picks for subpar coaches.
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
If The Chiefs Didn't Want Anyone Else
They would have hired him by now and wouldn’t have brought other people in. Sorry, but if Zorn ends up as OC, he’s strictly a consolation prize.
You could be right
But I’m just saying there are other ways of looking at that potential situation. Not sure it’s as cut and dry as that. Is Crennel a consolation prize? Most people consider him the best HC hire of this off-season.
Yes
Crennel as the HC is a joke
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Philbon out of GB
There are better options than a 65 year old who bombed in cleveland
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
What coach hasn't bombed in Cleveland
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
LOL, What?
Really? A Joke? Care to explain that?
What part of irrational hate don't you understand?
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Jan 31, 2012 3:20 PM CST up reply actions
I Half Agree With Saints_Chiefsfan
I was impressed by Crennel’s win over Green Bay, but let’s not forget the Chiefs shit the bed the next week against a not very good Raiders team with the playoffs on the line.
I think Crennel might be better than Haley, but that’s not a high bar. And while it’s true that Cleveland is a football graveyard, Crennel did nothing to make the case while he was HC there that he was better than what his record said.
Wait the raiders blew us out
i thought some guys couldnt do what they get paid for and block Seymour from putting them on there ass and letting him block a kick in a close game.
They Did, But
They blocked the second kick using the same play they used to block the first one and Crennel didn’t adjust.
Didn’t say they got blown out…just said they shit the bed. I consider two blocked FGs in a game unacceptable.
For Us Or Them?
We hired McMahon to be ST coordinator. I don’t know if that’s an improvement or not.
Suits Me
Like I said, two blocked field goals in a critical game is unacceptable. Or in any game for that matter.
He Corrected The Complaint After The Game
I felt it was something that should have been corrected before the second block.
It’s a minor knock on Crennel. I was just saying while I think he’s an improvement on Haley, that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s going to be that great. But I’m cool with giving him a couple of years to see what he can do.
Wait what?
Crennel didn’t adjust?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
Not After The First Block
Richard Seymour said they used the same double stack play to block both field goals. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t they also use it against the same blocker?
Yeah....if I'm Crennel, I probably assume my ST coach does some adjusting there.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Nope
But to me a FG block means something went very wrong with either the blocker or the scheme. It’s an unusual enough event (as opposed to a miss) that it should attract a HC’s attention to ask where the breakdown was.
And you don't think it drew his attention?
He just said “Better luck next time boys and less hoopla!”? Cmon now.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:55 PM CST up reply actions
If It Had Attracted His Attention
And he didn’t have them pull Maneri, then Crennel would deserve more blame.
Because Crennel is a ST specialist and knows which guy should go in there?
And ya lets put in a guy who has had zero practice reps and doesn’t know his responsibility, mid game when its worked all season long like this.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Did The First FG Block Get Your Attention?
Yeah…mine too. Even though I’m not paid to pay attention to it.
You're making some very big assumptions
And acting like Crennel is a pop warner coach or something. Give it a break already. This isn’t Madden where you just sub in Brian Waters because he has an 87 ST rating.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
No, I'm Not
You’re making assumptions that just because I criticized him for making a mistake in the game that I want him gone. All I’ve said is a) I think he blew it by not picking up on the ST coordinator’s mistake in a big game with playoff implications and b) he wasn’t the most impressive possible hire (even though I think he’s okay).
Quit trying to make my argument something it isn’t.
You are assuming that he did not pick up on it
Or discuss it or go over it with Hoffman. The whole premise of your argument in this situation is entirely based off an assumption.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
Not only that.
It sounds like UC wants Romeo to be a micromanager and not trust his coaching specialists to do their jobs.
"Piracy is the new radio." - Neil Young
If A Coordinator Gets One Field Goal Blocked
You can blame the players and possibly the coordinator. Two, you definitely blame the coordinator and possibly the HC. Two using exactly the same play, the HC and coordinator definitely screwed up.
Exactly
But when Haley does it?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
Are You Calling Me A Haley Supporter?
Because if so, I think you seriously need to pull your head out of your ass.
Yes, I'm Assuming That
Because if he had, the Raiders wouldn’t have been successful twice in a row running the same play against the same blocker.
Unless you’re saying that Crennel recognized the play and then chose to do nothing about it. Is that what you’re claiming?
Nope
I’m suggesting that because this is professional football and these are professional coaches that there is a pretty good chance it wasn’t ignored and it was talked about, but left the adjustments in his ST specialists hands after sharing his concerns.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Nope but you're insistently blaming a head coach for something ludicrous.
The only thing you could really blame Crennel for there is not calling a timeout when they saw the formation. Other then that its in the ST hands.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions
I Blame The Head Coach For The Results On The Field
He’s responsible for the team’s performance. Special teams is part of that.
And, like I said, it wasn’t that big of a gripe. Stop making more out of it than it is.
Maneri.
Our lightest, weediest tackle, lined up inside, against Seymour. Coulda been Mims.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Then Why Did Crennel Let The ST Coach Put Him Out There Again?
Like I said above…a field goal block is an unusual enough event that the HC should be paying attention, particularly in a game where the margin of error is so slim.
Yeah, it was a mistake.
Not a huge one in my mind, though. It was Romeo’s second game as HC. He had his mind on the DC stuff, it was a special teams play, and the personnel that needed adjusting belonged to the offense. If Romeo had jumped in and straightened it out, it would have been an outstanding act of initiative/poor show of micro-management.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Agreed
It wasn’t that major on Crennel’s part…I was just saying, though, that there are still question marks about Crennel as a tactician.
Might have also been a tough adjustment to make, tactically.
Depending on the personnel they had available. I was joking about Mims….I think he might’ve been inactive. Maybe they just couldn’t figure out how to juggle the personnel without leaving some other gaping hole.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Perhaps
I tend to view that skeptically since they ended up replacing the ST coordinator. I think it was an in-game mistake on Crennel’s and the STC’s part more than anything. But not enough of one that I consider Crennel to be a joke. I don’t hold as harsh of an opinion on Crennel as Saints_Chiefsfan.
So now you think he got canned because of two plays?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Dude, What World Do You Live In?
Yes…he got canned because he failed to adjust to a defensive adjustment that resulted in two blocks in a critical game. The Raiders blocked two field goals using EXACTLY the same play against EXACTLY the same blocker.
I live in the world of reality.
Where people get fired for their body of work, which warranted him getting fired, not one mistake in one game.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Your Reality Has Nothing To Do With The NFL
The head coach of the NY Giants never coached again because of a botched QB kneeldown caused partly by a headset malfunction that caused the Miracle at the Meadowlands.
In the NFL, your career depends as much on not making highly visible blunders as it does doing good overall work.
His in-game tactics may be questionable indeed
that was part of his rap from Cleveland. However, his three game stint here showed that his pre-game tactics are pretty dynamite. The guy can draw up a pretty serious gameplan, especially on the defensive side of things. He prepares the players in ways that we haven’t seen for years.
It remains to be seen if the former will outweigh the latter. I’m looking forward to seeing how it all plays out. :)
and not once but twice
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
We have a TE long snapping.
Its not all about size.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:07 PM CST up reply actions
A lot of it is, though.
It’s not a coincidence that the lightest guy on that side of the line was the one on his ass two times in a row. Or that we can’t run on the goal line.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Talent?
Mims was an undrafted free agent, without the benefit of a full camp. It remains to be seen if he has any talent. At this point he’s nothing more than a raw prospect.
"Piracy is the new radio." - Neil Young
On that day, he coulda been a gigantic Seymour-absorbing raw prospect.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Or looked at some Raiders game film.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
How many ''patriot way '' guys have bombed in the NFL?
He is 65 if he wins a championship he will be the oldest HC to do so
No interem HC that went on to be the teams HC has ever won a SB
Only 1 coach that didn’t go to the playoffs with his previous team has went on to win a SB in his 2nd stop (Shanahan)
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
The Age Is A Legit Concern
Dick Vermeil may have won a Super Bowl late in his career, but Vermeil also accomplished a lot more than Crennel did when he was younger.
That said, I’m willing to give Crennel the benefit of the doubt for now. There was definitely improvement in the team’s performance once he took over. That’s something.
I'll give you a sneak peek here
I think this team goes 11-5 next year. Last place schedule, guys healthy, younger guys get better,weak division, another draft / free agency period yadda yadda. And I think Crennel will initialy give this team a shot in the arm. But, i just don’t see it lasting for more than a year
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:32 PM CST up reply actions
Sure
I’m not a big fan of sporadic success, sorry. This playoff birth every 5 years doesn’t do much for me.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:48 PM CST up reply actions
It'll be interesting to see if/how Pioli gets to implement his continuity plan.
The general feel from his interviews is that he wants to build a dynasty that will out-last any single player. I wonder if he envisions something that will outlast a coach, too. Pittsburgh and Baltimore seem to have done it. If we can get that consistent philosophy and team identity going here, starting with Romeo, then there won’t be a drop-off when he retires.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
We're out of the CP years, man.
Welcome into the light :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
TomCoughlin will be the oldest
he is the oldest coach in the league
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
So? What has he done lately?
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Jan 31, 2012 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
Only about to win his 2nd SB in 4 years
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
I never learned the sarcasm font.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Feb 3, 2012 11:12 PM CST up reply actions
If he does it he will be the oldest
But A; he will be the only coach 65 or older to do it
B; Crennel is no where near the coach Coughlin is
C; Coughlin has more talent than crennel has on his team
D; Coughlin has a franchise QB
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:35 PM CST up reply actions
No where near the coach Coughlin is?
Really? Coughlin was practically a joke around the league this year and last. If the Giants didn’t make it to the playoffs this year (which was a very real possibility), he was gone for sure. He’s been criticized pretty heavily for a while now, even with the SB win.
How is a guy
That beat maybe the greatest team in history in a SB, ever considered a joke?
How is a guy that took an expansion franchise to the AFC title game in his 2nd year ever considered a joke?
How is a guy that has won more playoff games than Bill Parcells ever considered a joke?
The Jags have fallen off a cliff since he left, is that a joke to?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not sure I agree with C either.
Better talent at the most important position? Yes. Better talent overall? No. Its pretty even if you ask me. They win in QB, WR and DLine, oline is a wash and we have better backs, lbs and seconday.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:41 PM CST up reply actions
omg
look at the Giants pass rush, look at there receiving core, look at there o-line!
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Lets try reading the entire reply first.
No. Its pretty even if you ask me. They win in QB, WR and DLine, oline is a wash and we have better backs, lbs and seconday.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:47 PM CST up reply actions
there o-line is way better
they have Jacobs and Bradshaw which is a better 1-2 punch than what we have.i.e a 40 year old RB, 165lb scat back and a guy that wears down if you give him more than 12 carries a game
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
No, their QB makes their O line look way better.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Their oline is not way better.
They are an average bunch like we are an average bunch. They’re QB makes it appear that way and they have a fantastic oline coach but no more talent.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:54 PM CST up reply actions
Charles yardage when carrying 20+ times
143, 154, 102, 259, 177, 173, 116, Looks like wearing down to me too.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions
I was talking about Battle
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 4:02 PM CST up reply actions
I think you should trade WR and backs.
We have better back, singular, as in Charles. They have some pretty good backs. I like our receivers, if Baldwin can get on track.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
D; Coughlin has a franchise QB
The biggest factor.
Chad O'Shea
Zorn could be kept on as insurance for us having a 1st time OC, our staff could well be:
OC-O’Shea/Mike Sullivan/Lombardi
QB Coach-Zorn
WR Coach-Brian Daboll (figure he will not be our oc since he would have already been named)
OL-Muir
RB-Carthon
TE-TBD/Sirianni
Carpe Diem
Lots of denials going around this year.
Decent, experienced QB coaches are rare, I’m glad we’re keeping ours.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And just how did Zorn help our QB's again?
Cassel regressed badly this year. Who has Zorn ever developed?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
If he sucks, then we should fire him.
Not deny other teams from interviewing him.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Cassel
Didn’t have a run game to open up his passing game.
ew..I just felt dirty using Cassel and passing game in the same post.
This
Cassel is a QB that depends on having everything running near perfect for him to be successful.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
Matt Hasselbeck comes to mind.
Flacco had his best year with Zorn too. Zorn also helped Charlie Batch appear like a starting QB with the 2nd best passer rating by a rookie in NFL history.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
you cant grade Zorn for Cassel
Cassel had a mediocre year with Weis who is supposed to be the “real guru” There is just no help for Cassel his just simply sucks
by readANDgold58 on Jan 31, 2012 3:33 PM CST up reply actions
Cassel doesn't suck
and you call a 27 to 7 td int with over 3000 yards a mediocre year while leading a team to the playoffs with a pro bowl birth ?
Shit + Shit = More Shit
by Kansas City Keith on Jan 31, 2012 3:37 PM CST up reply actions
The exception to prove the rule?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:38 PM CST up reply actions
You got me!
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:39 PM CST up reply actions
Grbac made a pro bowl
he still sucks and he had over 4,000 yards passing that year
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:40 PM CST up reply actions
Drew Brees' numbers his last year in San Diego were simillar and he was simillar in age.
Therefore Cassel = Brees.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:42 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
The guy now has absolutely no excuses.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:46 PM CST up reply actions
Interesting… I wonder what clicked for Brees
4 seasons with Chargers: averaged 3000 yards 20 TDs 13 INTs per season
6 seasons with Saints: averages 4700 yards 33 TDs 15 INTs per season
Would that be wonderful if Cassel woke up from his awfulness and because Drew Brees?
He woke up before he left SD. Right at the time Rivers was drafted, actually.
The cynical side of me thinks he started performing purely out of fear of losing his job. The less cynical side of me thinks he was probably having girl troubles in 2002-2004. The less cynical side of me is still pretty damned cynical.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm confused, which is nothing new,
and maybe this was answered earlier. The posting stated:
We know the Bears already got one Chief — Phil Emery, the now-former college scouting director, who was introduced on Monday as the Bears new GM.
Sean Jensen of the Chicago Sun-Times cites a league source who says the Bears also requested permission to speak with Jim Zorn for the same position in Chicago.
So what SAME POSITION?
Same as Emery’s or same as Zorn’s current position in KC?
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Jan 31, 2012 4:33 PM CST reply actions
Go Get Saunders
With the Raiders not keeping Saunders as OC, bring him back to the Chiefs! Not only the best available, but one of the best OCs of all time.
Jeezuz you're giving me nasty flashbacks with that photo!
Never should we have to see Palko in a Chiefs uniform again! Ever!
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