Arrowheadlines: Chiefs News 1/31
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 31, 2012 7:15 AM CST
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Good morning and welcome to Arrowheadlines. We've gathered today's Kansas City Chiefs news from across the internet. I feel like I'm enabling laziness. Oh well. Enjoy.
The Kansas City Chiefs announced on Monday that the team has hired Tom McMahon to serve as the club's special teams coach.
"I am pleased to add Tom to our staff," said Head Coach Romeo Crennel. "He is a diligent worker and passionate coach. It is a great addition for us."
McMahon joins the Chiefs after a three-year stint (2009-11) in St. Louis where he served as special teams coordinator for the Rams. In 2010, the Rams had the league's third-best net punting average at 40.0 yards per punt. Additionally, McMahon's primary punt returner, Danny Amendola, led the NFL with 12 returns of 20-plus yards in 2009 and 2010 combined.
Chiefs Name Tom McMahon Special Teams Coach from The Mothership
The Chiefs parted ways with two other assistant coaches, Richie Anderson (wide receivers) and Pat Perles (assistant offensive line).
They retained their entire defensive staff, including Anthony Pleasant (line), Gary Gibbs (linebackers) and Emmitt Thomas (secondary).
McMahon Is New Special Teams Coach from The Red Zone
But if we can take one thing away from the hiring of McMahon, it's that Crennel isn't afraid to go outside his coaching circle to find key assistants.
McMahon has never worked with Crennel before, though he did spend one year (2007) working under Jerry Rosburg in Atlanta. Rosburg, who is currently Baltimore's special teams coordinator, served in the same capacity on Crennel's staff in Cleveland from 2005-06.
Crennel Sets Table For Further Staff Announcements from The Mothership
Another vehicle to inculcate health messages in the community is a long-term partnership entered in 2010 between TMC and the Kansas City Chiefs.
"Initially it was not worth the cost of doing business, in my book," Bluford recalled.
He said the program takes half of TMC's marketing budget but declined to specify the amount.
"I wasn't sold that we should spend our valuable resources on an advertising scheme at a football game."
Bluford has since changed his mind, and not because TMC and the Chiefs now share a red, black and white logo that proclaims them as "Partners for a Healthy Community." Rather, he has seen the power that pro sports has to capture attention.
Healthy Changes Under Way At Truman Medical Center from KC Star
The date was December 21, the time early in the fourth quarter with the score, 6-3, in favor of Kansas City, and the ball on the Chiefs one yard line. Jets quarterback Joe Namath had just led the defending Super Bowl champs there and had four cracks at a touchdown and what would have been a late lead.
As Willie Lanier, Kansas City's future Hall of Fame player, recalled, it was a moment of "heads being bent, concessions being offered." But for his part, he would have none of it.
HOH: You Shall Not Pass (Or Run For That Matter) from The Mothership
"[Peterson] came to me first off and said, ‘Hey, I'm just here to help you,' " Ireland said. "It's been a good relationship. I know Carl doesn't want to become a general manager again. It's a grind now. It's a grind. He doesn't want that at this stage of his life. I've used him as a sounding board on certain things and certainly [he was] helpful in the head coach process."
To hear Ireland, Peterson is a valuable ally as opposed to someone working in contradictory fashion or cross purposes.
Miami Dolphins GM Jeff Ireland Explains His Arrangement With Carl Peterson from The Miami Sun-Sentinel
Bob Moore, historian for the Kansas City Chiefs, credits the idea of using Roman numerals to Lamar Hunt, the late Chiefs owner and one of the godfathers of the modern NFL. (History also credits Hunt with coming up with the name "Super Bowl" for the big game.)
"The Roman numerals made it much more important," Moore said.
Super Bowl XLVI Is Greek To Kids from CantonRep.com
Meanwhile, former Kansas City Chiefs head coach Todd Haley could emerge as a candidate for Pittsburgh's offensive coordinator position, league sources said.
Steelers Retain Linebackers Coach Butler, Interested In Haley from NFL.com
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thanks NJ
anytime you use that pic, it’s gonna be a good day.
the expat formally known as Chiefsinchina
by Shanghai_Chiefs on Jan 31, 2012 7:20 AM CST reply actions
My favorite picture
in the pool. Love it.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 31, 2012 7:20 AM CST up reply actions
If you can look that adorable
With your face painted like that, you’re a 10
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Or you ARE 10.
Which is why I leave it alone.
"There's a reason it's called 'girls gone wild' and not 'women gone wild'. When girls go wild, they show their tits. When women go wild, they kill men and drown their kids in a tub". - Louis CK
Huh?
A little testy this a.m. because I think the two girls are a “10”? You might want to look at your sig.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
hehehe
he is saying that the girls in the picture might be a touch young for…. well most of the people on here.
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 8:02 AM CST up reply actions
And, I'm 52
and have an 11 year old daughter who I often say things like, I think on a scale of one to ten, you’re an 11 and things like Dad’s often say.
So, maybe he, and others should pull their heads out of the gutter, or their ass, wherever they happen to be.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Or maybe your terminology is different than 99.99999% of the rest of the world's
And you should consider adaptation.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Would you say that to someone else's daughter?
Just giving you a hard time… ;)
As for the girls in the picture, they look older than 20 to me…
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I wish I could see this picture without the makeup
I’m pretty sure that I went to high school at least with the girl in the background.
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
My head is always in the gutter :(
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Sandusky?
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 31, 2012 8:52 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
Todd Haley on the Steelers?
That does not sound like a match made in heaven.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Haley
I thought the cardinals were wanting him back, Dont think Haley and Steelers Head Coach could get a long.somebodys ego would be Hurt.
The Jets talked with him briefly
Could you imagine Haley and that blow hard Ryan? It would be great theater anyway.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Thats what pioli said
Ego’s will be hurt.. cept mine.
by Bigcherokeechief on Jan 31, 2012 7:56 AM CST up reply actions
Cardinals Were Only Looking For A QB Coach
And so I doubt they looked very hard at Haley. Also, they apparently like their current OC and didn’t want to create potential conflicts with an assistant who’d want to run the offense.
And the Jets were on the verge of hiring him as 'passing game coordinator', right up until the wiretapping story came out
After that they had a ‘mutual agreement’ not to proceed.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I Doubt That Story
The story seemed to come from the press that he was going to be a “passing game coordinator” working with Sparano and wasn’t initially linked to any team. To be honest, it was such a bizarre and ridiculous suggestion that I suspect that Haley may have planted that story with his buddies at ESPN. The only team I can think of that ran their offense like that last year was the Chiefs, and it was horribly inefficient.
Basically, I’m starting to suspect that Todd Haley has been blacklisted. Not so much because of the wiretapping story (although I’m sure it didn’t help) but because of the whole pattern of bizarre and unstable behavior he demonstrated during his time here. The guy essentially started a shitty QB for a month out of spite towards his boss…if you were a GM would YOU want to hire that guy?
Palko won the #2 spot in Preseason...
Just so happens he looked a lot worse in the regular season. But after game two, he definitely should have been benched for Stanzi or Orton.
So, really, Palko was only unecessarily started for a couple weeks. Bizarre, still.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Jan 31, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
That's a matter of opinion.
Palko won the #2 spot in Preseason…
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
According to the depth chart, anyway.
Bottom line is that he was the #2 going into the season. Whether he deserved it or not, well…
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Jan 31, 2012 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Jerheme Urban
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Understandble...
But when it comes down to a rookie or a “veteran”…
Even T.J. Yates was the 3rd option, and only got the nod out of necessity.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
Pretty sure Bobby Wade was ahead of D-Bowe in '09
Which is a fireable offense in it’s own right.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Forcing Out Two OCs And Completely Botching Two Preseasons
He was so far in over his head that I’m surprised he had as much success as he did.
You could be right on that UC
I don’t recall the source of that story, but I know it was a paid NY reporter.
And totally agree that he may have been blacklisted. He seems to have misjudged his own stature in the league based on what he thought he could get away with. Personally though, I think the wiretapping accusation is a huge deal…going to the press and accusing your boss of committing a felony crime against you isn’t going to do anything good for your career in such a tight-knit league. Maybe Al would have hired him if he were still alive, but that’s about it.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
And Now The Pittsburgh Paper Is Speculating That The Steelers Interview With Haley Was Just A Courtesy
Possibly as a favor to his dad, to help his son keep his name out there.
Haley might very well have ended his career with his stint in KC.
Haley to the Steelers?
Think that could be a tempting story by the NFL in 2012? Chiefs vs. Steelers. Old head coach vs. the team that fired him. Too bad they’re playing at Pittsburgh.
Is the 2012 schedule out? Is it possible before the SB??
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Opponents Yes, Dates & Schedule, No
Bleedin Red & Gold... and Purple... since 1992.
by chiefs_fan_forever on Jan 31, 2012 7:54 AM CST up reply actions
Tried to find the AP one, but too tired to look thoroughly
http://www.arrowheadupdate.com/2012-2013-chiefs-schedule.html
Bleedin Red & Gold... and Purple... since 1992.
by chiefs_fan_forever on Jan 31, 2012 7:57 AM CST up reply actions
if that's really our schedule...
and MC7 is our QB, we’ll be drafting very high in the 2013 draft.
by Chief Farmer on Jan 31, 2012 8:00 AM CST up reply actions
its our opponents. Can't remember where I saw it, but dates don't come out til mid-late april.
Bleedin Red & Gold... and Purple... since 1992.
by chiefs_fan_forever on Jan 31, 2012 8:02 AM CST up reply actions
Or, they'll win the division.......AGAIN, with Cassel
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Looks tough, 8-8, 9-7 would be a victory IMO.
Excited to play against Cam though.
"There's a reason it's called 'girls gone wild' and not 'women gone wild'. When girls go wild, they show their tits. When women go wild, they kill men and drown their kids in a tub". - Louis CK
10-6, 11-5
I think most people, fans too, are underestimating the talent on the Chiefs.
The fans, because of their blatant hatred of Cassel. The defense will be in the top five, or better and it is going to have a lot to do with who’s running the offense and how well they build the offensive line.
Use Dex the right way, keep Bowe, healthy Charles and a back-up running back.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
I don't underestimate the talent, it's because as a Chiefs fan I always go in expecting the worst
So, predict 8-8, or 9-7, don’t set the bar too high. If we win more, I’ll be pleasantly surprised, but I’m not going to set myself up for a let down.
Expect the worst, hope for the best.
"There's a reason it's called 'girls gone wild' and not 'women gone wild'. When girls go wild, they show their tits. When women go wild, they kill men and drown their kids in a tub". - Louis CK
I expect more
I just dont get let down very hard anymore because I am use to it. Sad to say
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
Could you imagine being a Chicago Cub fan?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Fair point
But I just think the Chiefs are better than that
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
It's not blatant hatred of Cassel
We just took off the rose colored Matt Cassel glasses after a while. It’s just so apparent that he’s good against poor coverage. Unfortunately to get far into the playoffs you have to be able to play against some of the best pass defenses. Matt Cassel is not that guy.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 8:16 AM CST up reply actions
To get far in the playoffs
You need a good football team, which I think the Chiefs will have. I have one more year of belief in Cassel.
After that…. nope
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Belief is a strong word
For me it’s one more year of resigned acceptance. I don’t doubt that we can go to the playoffs again with Matt Cassel, I do doubt that we can do anything once we get there. I’ll feel a whole lot better if Orton is brought back, but I doubt that happens.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I get a kick out of the people who want Orton back
In the last three games the Chiefs spend so much time in the red zone they almost became communists.
If Cassel had been the QB and they had done the same thing, the people on here would be bitching about him endlessly.
Also, the two picks that Orton threw against the Raiders may very well have cost them the game, hence, the division.
Again, if it was Cassel, you’d all be screaming for his head.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
For starters
Cassel was the master of the 3 and out so it’s a good chance he wouldn’t have gotten us to the red zone as often as Orton did. Secondly, if Bowe doesn’t drop a TD pass the 1st int doesn’t happen and the ST not blocking Seymour had something to do with costing us that Raider game
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
If this, if that
AND, if the QB had been Cassel, the entire loss would have been HIS fault.
If anyone is being honest, they have to agree. It’s been going on for three years.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Could go either way - and maybe it's not fair
like blaming the San Diego loss on Cassel after he walked over and gently placed the ball in Eric Weddle’s hands as we were trying to march down the field and tie or win the game… that’s probably not fair but it won’t/didn’t stop us.
It would be unfair to do a one-to-one swap in the Oakland game and put Cassel in with the exact same stats and have the game go the same way (two blocked FGs lose the game) and blame it on Cassel, yes, absolutely unfair. And our assumption is that his stats would have been worse, so maybe that’s unfair too.
I would say that there aren’t many games that we lost where Cassel looked amazing and we “could have won if not for X”. I seem to recall a lot of losses where he looked like a box of hot garbage. The only game I recall us losing where he looked decent was last year vs. Denver when he put up like 400 yards when we were already down 30 points. I recall plenty of games where he couldn’t even break the century mark throwing and we got absolutely housed.
Fair to put all of the blame on him? No. But fair to say he’s one of the weaker links on our offense, I think so.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
Nice
like blaming the San Diego loss on Cassel after he walked over and gently placed the ball in Eric Weddle’s hands as we were trying to march down the field and tie or win the game
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Absolutley
I don’t think anyone would claim he doesn’t make mistakes.
I saw Rogers make about 8 of them in the playoff game.
Do you, or have you, ever given him credit for winning a game?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Did you just really compare Cassel to Rogers?
Rogers has a bad game here and there. Cassel has stretches of bad games with a good one sprinkled in
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Yes, last year's game vs. the 49'ers
He played like a boss.
Last year’s game vs. Seattle – also solid
Last year’s game vs. Titans – one of his best of his career.
He looked solid for half of the game in Indy this year too so maybe he gets 1/2 of the Oreo for that… but not the side with the creme filling.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
Orton didn't cost us that raiders game.
That was all on Hoffman and the special teams. Two blocked field goals by the same guy?!!!! Also they tended to just run the ball when we had first and goal instead of mixing it up in those last three games. That’s on Muir.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions
This is my point
If it had been Cassel, you wouldn’t be saying that.
The entire team was playing better at that point. Defense, offensive line so nobody knows what Cassel would have done.
He seem to get into the red zone quite a few times in 2010.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Well, Jamaal Charles got us to the red zone quite a few times in 2010
Then sadly never got the carries inside the red zone.
“Thanks for carrying the load, JC. Go sit down so we can give someone else your TD.”
“Okay coach. I wanted some Gatorade anyway.”
Despite the popular thing to say, Cassel isn’t a total abomination or the worst QB in the league. But he just isn’t good, either. And I’d prefer at least a good (great if we can find it) QB instead.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
by pseudo conjecture
we just look at Cassel’s track record, and as KingChief mentioned above, we probably don’t get 1/2 of those looks inside the RZ… maybe 1/4. Maybe Cassel makes one of those work… or maybe he takes a 15+ yard sack on 3rd down and puts us out of FG range like he likes to do.
I think people like Cassel as a person and supported him and believed in him.
But when Orton came out, we immediately saw things he was capable of doing and realized what we were missing the whole time.
For me, it was almost like watching a totally different team.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 8:57 AM CST up reply actions
He played THREE games
They scored 19-13-7 points. Seriously, what are you talking about?
He has an entire career of medicrity. If he were a major upgrade over Cassel, I’d be all for it, but he’s NOT.
Cassel and Orton have almost identical career stats. In fact, Cassel’s are slightly better in most categories.
Orton has a big edge in passing yards per game, which makes sense because the Chiefs were the number one rushing team in the NFL.
Orton will be moving on to his fourth team. There must be a reason.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
its funny, isn't it?
And I love how one of the biggest Orton supporters was also one of the last remaining Brodie Croyle supporters…
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
Nobody thinks Orton is the answer
the question is, is he any better than Cassel? I’d say yeah.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Why?
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Do you think we would have beaten GB with Cassel starting?
Personally, I don’t.
Orton’s advantages: Stronger arm, quicker reads, faster release, much better at selling the play-action, and judging by McClain’s comments a stronger leader on the field.
Cassel’s advantages: More mobile and more careful with the ball. Anything else?
Predictions:
I’m going to stop predicting positive things
by jmcgoblue on Jan 31, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
There is no answer to that
Because he’s not. He has some strenghts that Cassel does not, and visa versa.
It’s not like getting rid of Cassel for Drew Brees.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
And this is my point
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
And.....
I do believe we are the only two that feel this way.
Good thing we’re not in a bar, they’d be chasing us down an alley.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Do we get to throw shit at them while we run? :)
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:21 AM CST up reply actions
Give me one strength Cassel has that Orton doesn't
that doesn’t involve something off the field. Yes Cassel can save families from a fire like a mofo.
I’m hard pressed to find anything.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
Last year's Rams game
Appendectomy > pinkie finger
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:22 AM CST up reply actions
Well he is more mobile
but he makes up for it by taking 3x as many sacks
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Cassel has:
Much better career td/int ratio
Cassel is more mobile and tougher, by a lot
They’re career win/loss- both are one gave over .500
Cassel’s career QB rating is higher
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
I think we lost em
Where do you want to go net to stir up trouble?
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
dammit
net next
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
Well
Somebody below just said when Cassel is in the Chiefs score 6, 3 and 0.
We can start there?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Tried already
He didn’t bite :(
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Always fun to have civil debate
I will do so again in the near future.
Marine, we will get the last word in next year as the Chiefs get to at least the AFC Championship game, with Cassel at QB.
Go Chiefs!!!!
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Guess it could happen.
The Bears went to the Super Bowl with Rex Grossman at center so I guess anything’s possible.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions
ok, Mobility and Toughness are good
Not really looking for “stats” – that’s a black hole. And anyway, their TD:INT ratio isn’t horribly disparate. Four more TDs to 12 more INTs – and don’t forget that Orton started as a rookie and was a bit lop-sided in his TD:INT ratio there.
Cassel – 76:45 – 59%
Orton – 80:57 – 71%
But if looking for a strength – I’ll give you mobility and toughness.
A bit odd though that with Orton’s severe lack of mobility, he took about 1 fewer sack per game behind the same “shitty” offensive line.
So far I have:
Orton: Arm strength, quicker release, better progressions, better coverage manipulation, better pocket presence, better team leadership
Cassel: Toughness, better mobility, nice guy
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe he's taking more sacks
instead of throwing int’s? Ever think of that?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Sure
then he gets his ass out of the pocket and throws it away for no INT and no loss.
A sack is not necessarily a suitable alternative to an INT.
An incompletion is a suitable alternative to an INT.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
A sack is always a suitable alternative to an INT
You take a sack and you still have the ball. If it pushes you out of field goal range, you punt and play the field position game.
If you throw the INT, you lose the ball, give up field position, and possibly a pick 6 depending on the circumstances.
by Chiefs fan in ST Louis on Jan 31, 2012 10:15 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think Ocho is saying
there is a 3rd option, which is throwing the ball away.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Yep
I just read it strange. Damn trying to read AP while at work
by Chiefs fan in ST Louis on Jan 31, 2012 10:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Right, it was a bit confusing, just meant
In terms of worst to best
3. Int
2. Sack
1. Incomplete
Of course discounting stuff like “scramble for positive yards” which would work as well… just a generality.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Actually, if you look at what they've done with the chances they've had...
that is, stats over total pass attempts:
Orton: 38-2/3 passes per int
Cassel: 39.3 passes per int
Orton is about 1.5% worse than Cassel with interceptions.
Orton: 73.5 passes per fumble
Cassel: 53.5 passes per fumble
Orton is about 37% better than Cassel in fumbles.
Orton: 16.7 passes per sack
Cassel: 12.5 passes per sack
Orton is about 34% better than Cassel in sacks. Weird that that number is pretty close to the fumble percentage.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
by Brsrkr on Jan 31, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Excellent point(s)
I didn’t even span it out per attempt – good call.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 3:23 PM CST up reply actions
I still don't believe stats much good for comparing players in football.
Just way too many variables over too few samples.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
you rang? ;-)
And I love how one of the biggest Orton supporters was also one of the last remaining Brodie Croyle supporters
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Was wondering who that was
thought they were bagging on me but I hardly remember being a huge Croyle supporter.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
:)
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 3:50 PM CST up reply actions
There is a reason...
If Pioli wasn’t so tied to the whole thing, Cassel would be moving on to his 2nd or 3rd team.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:09 AM CST up reply actions
And you know this how?
Guy comes into a disaster first year. Nobody expected much.
Second year, wins the division.
Third year, total disaster top to bottom.
??
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Didn't you know?
To compare Cassel to Orton you have to throw out Cassel’s good years (because he had nothing to do with them), And only look at the years that the chiefs set the NFL record for drops and the year Cassel lost his top 2 receiving threats and the 1st round pick was injured.
Also, Orton’s bad years don’t count either.
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Just look at Tampa Bay
Last year everyone was talking about how great Josh Freeman was. He was going to be a really good QB. Then this year they face stiffer opposition thanks to their miraculous turn around in 2010 and suddenly there was talk of how he regressed. In some ways Cassel and Freeman were cursed. Because after winning the division there was more pressure to see if they could do it again the following year. To see if they truly had what it takes to move up in the QB ranks. In some ways I think Alex Smith may face the same problem. Next year the Niners will be facing better opponents and then we will see if he has what it takes or if 2011 was just a fluke.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Oh yeah
And Cassel is already on his second team. FTW
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:24 AM CST up reply actions
The point most people were trying to make was
with Cassel in there we score 6, 3 and 0 points.
Listen, I don’t think that Orton is our savior or that we need to go whole-hog and try to resign him so we can have a shot next year. I’m just saying that Orton, as a QB, is capable of doing things that Cassel isn’t.
-Being able to look off a safety worth a damn (manipulate coverage with your eyes)
-Being able to throw a deep ball
-Having any sort of pocket presence (how many sacks did he take compared to Cassel behind the exact same line?)
-Better team leadership (referenced several times by players etc)
-Better play action pass (at least imo he sold the fake better)
I don’t care about stats over their careers – I’m just telling you what I saw watching those last 3 games compared to the 13 before (or 9 if you only want to count Cassel) and the seasons before that.
I also don’t think Orton is the best thing ever, but I do think he’s an upgrade over Cassel – and next year we need to get an upgrade over Cassel.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Riiiiight
Being able to look off a safety worth a damn (manipulate coverage with your eyes)
Ya know, except for those interceptions he threw in the end zone
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
At least he took a shot occasionally
instead of getting skittish in the pocket before falling down and taking a sack.
And yet again, I’m not saying that Orton is the answer here – whether or not he threw an INT here and there is not the point. There are flat out many things that Orton does that Cassel simply does not.
He does look off coverage, something I rarely if ever see Cassel do.
He goes through his progressions better than Cassel.
If you just want to say that Orton throws INTs and Cassel doesn’t, then I don’t think you watched many Chiefs games this year.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:34 AM CST up reply actions
Actually it would have been better for him to fall down and take a sack
Considering we were around the 30.
3>0 (points)
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
If it's a Cassel sack
You may end up on the 40 or 50 after he runs backwards 10 yards first.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
Don't forget..
Orton doesn’t immediately get happy feet when his first read is covered. Orton tries to move the ball down the field. Cassel tries to take care of the ball so much that he’s fine with taking the sack. I will say that Cassel did seem to improve his ability to know when to throw the ball away as oppose to last year. So there’s that at least.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions
You mean
As opposed to the 27 td’s and 7 int’s the year before? You know, the year Bowe led the AFC in TD’s? Those “shot”, but, I’m sure it had nothing to do with Cassel.
Except the int’s.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Last time I checked...
making it to the current years playoffs isn’t determined by the previous years stats.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:41 AM CST up reply actions
Oh sorry
He didn’t remember that Orton got us into the playoffs this year
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
And the Chiefs didn't make it
And do you really think it was Cassel’s fault.
Let’s see, the first two games they’re outscored 89-10. Think the defense had anything to do with it?
How about the loss of Charles, Moaeki and Berry?
How about two HC’s, three QB’s, four games with Palko?
You think this year was Cassel’s fault?
They actually had a chance to win the division, which was amazing, but they failed……..with Orton behind center.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Actually they failed because of a man named Palko..
The only QB in the NFL to make Tebow look legit.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
No, they failed for all those reasons
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
What about all the turnovers, sacks and 3 and outs Cassel had in those 1st 2 games
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
You're right
If he had played better, they would have scored 100 and won both games. Holy crap.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Not saying we woulda scored 100
but if he plays better the defense is not on the field for almost 40 minutes and we do not give up all those points
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
I think people like Cassel as a person and supported him and believed in him.
I would be glad to have him as my neighbor. But as the starting QB of my beloved football team? Not really.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:05 AM CST up reply actions
And my point is...
2010 we had healthy Jamaal and Moeaki. Weaker opponents that Cassel could take advantage of as long as the secondary had trouble covering Bowe. This year you lose your star running back and promising TE. Yet you add more receiving weapons and he should have been able to move the ball more. It’s no coincidence that he won against Indy and the Vikings. If it weren’t for the carousel of QB’s in that Raiders game we probably would’ve lost that game too because they were giving out interceptions. As I said before, if the opposing team had a hint of a good secondary then Cassel had problems. We need better.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
Do you think we would have beaten GB with Cassel starting?
Personally, I don’t.
Orton’s advantages: Stronger arm, quicker reads, faster release, much better at selling the play-action, and judging by McClain’s comments a stronger leader on the field.
Cassel’s advantages: More mobile and more careful with the ball. Anything else?
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Yeah
Cassel would get the first down with the clock running out against the raiders. Orton folded.
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
Cassel would?
Because…he’s the master of 4th quarter comebacks?
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Duh
didn’t you see the Colts came this year
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Colts game
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
No, not the master of comebacks
But he doesn’t slide feet first when he is short of the first down, especially when we need it
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
yeah he usually just goes three and out...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
Yes, I do
Because it had little to do with Orton and everything to do with the defense.
I think they had a chance to win all three of those games with Cassel just like Orton.
Hell, they had SEVEN points in Denver and won.
So, yes, I do. Do I know for fact, obviously not.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
The D did well because they didn't have the offense delivering 3 and outs the whole game
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
What?
KC punted EIGHT times in the Denver game. Denver had more first downs, more time of pos.
?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
I think he was referring to the GB game
and the O did play well in that game – if we had been three-and-out central like we usually were, eventually that GB offense would have shredded our D, especially later on when the fatigue set in.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 31, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
The o-line gave Orton time
Cassel would have been fine, in fact, they may have blown them out, as they should have.
They may also have lost. There is no way to know.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Orton had time because he doesn't hold the ball as long as Cassel does
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Really? C'mon
Bill Muir himself said that Orton took fewer sacks because he gets the ball out more quickly. It’s fine if you believe Cassel is the better QB, but don’t go doing what you accuse others of doing for Orton.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
My belief in him ran out when Orton started.
I thought surely if we got Cassel more weapons to throw to he would have a monster year in 2011. But it was still obvious that he couldn’t go through progressions, locked onto his first read, and tended to either check down for short gain or lock up and take a sack if that first read was covered. Not to mention that he tends to think his receivers are 3 feet taller than what they really are. Orton comes in with only a few weeks of practice with the team and tore up Green Bay’s secondary by spreading the ball around. For me Cassel has all the intangibles (great work ethic, wants to improve, wants to be the leader of his team) but in the end he’s missing something that all the practicing in the world can’t fix. He’s just not the kind of starting QB who can take the team on his shoulders if other facets of the game aren’t working and get a win.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 8:44 AM CST up reply actions
Not playing in college really hurt him
It’s like he is doing a 1 read system like a lot of the colleges do .If his 1st read is not there either check down or get rid of the ball.
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
And that would be fine...
if this was his second year out of college.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
So does this mean...
If Cassel starts and we only win 8 games, are you gonna bitch about how much Cassel sucks, and how we should have won so many more games?
We don't need a bunch of cats in here—"meeeooow!"—lookin' in the mirror. "I look gooooood, I got my extra bands on, I got my other shoes"—Be a dog! We don't need no meows, we don't need no cats. We need more dogs.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:26 AM CST up reply actions
If they win 8 games with Cassel starting...
Then it means one of two things: 1. Jamaal is back and better than ever or 2. We faced more teams with mediocre pass defense.
by RA_ChiefsFan on Jan 31, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
Well
Obviously division, they play the NFC South, correct, but the others ??
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Steelers better make some serious
upgrades or they won’t be the problem they have in the past. Saints, very tough, for anyone.
Tampa, Bills doable.
Home, Colts/Panthers/Falcons/Ravens/Bengals….. all beatable with the defense the Chiefs will have
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
How are the Bills on our scedule every year
Did the Chiefs pick up a sub rivalry somewhere? Just seems we have been playing the Bills an aweful lot
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
I was thinking the same thing about the Steelers.
"There's a reason it's called 'girls gone wild' and not 'women gone wild'. When girls go wild, they show their tits. When women go wild, they kill men and drown their kids in a tub". - Louis CK
It seems that way with a number of teams in the NFL
For some reason they just play each other. Usually, there’s an actual reason though, Colts/Pats, etc.
Bills/Chiefs???
Chiefs also play the Steelers every year
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
It has to do with where you finish in your division
The schedule is your division, NFC division, AFC division, and 2 other games. Since we were in last place, we play the Bills and the Colts next year.
The reason the Pats and Colts played each other every year was because they both finished in 1st every year.
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Then why does KC play the Steelers every year?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
We finished 1st last year so we played them this year since they finished 1st
We play them next year because we play the AFCN
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Sounds like you got it down
Thanks
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Did the Steelers see how the offense ran 2 of the 3 years the offense was under Haleys watch
The one year our offense was respectable Weiss was at the controls. If the Rooneys and Tomlin are trying to do Dick Haley a favor and not let Todd go without a job they shuold make him the WR coach, not the OC
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
the true question is did they see the AZ offense when he was strictly OC.
They did because they played them in the SB
Bleedin Red & Gold... and Purple... since 1992.
by chiefs_fan_forever on Jan 31, 2012 8:31 AM CST up reply actions
Good point, and almost beat them
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
Yeah, it just feels a lot like Haley wanted his hands in the minutia of the offense
While still being head coach. And it probably turned out to be too much on his plate all at once, where he couldn’t really excel at either.
If he goes back to strictly an OC position, he’ll probably do fine and be in his element again.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
Who wins the Super Bowl?
I am rooting for the Patriots, but I have to give the edge to the Giants. They have the better all round team.
I’m curious how the other NJ Chief fans feel. Are you rooting for the NJ team, or do you stick with the AFC?
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
I'm split.
Would like to see the Giants take it, because so many of my friends are die-hard fans and I have no doubt they will all be Chiefs fans when we make it to the SB. For the Pats, it would make the AFC look better and I can’t root against Waters getting a ring.
I’m just going to hope for an exciting game.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 31, 2012 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah, I keep forgetting about Waters
That gives me maybe the best reason to root for them. Class act and I would love to see him get a ring.
I would rather have seen him get it in KC!!!!
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
We need Arrowheadlines news of an OC hire pretty soon.
Before long the contenders worth having are going to be snatched up, under contract, and ready for training camp. The only thing I can think that this organization is waiting on is for New England’s season to finish so they can offer the OC to the ball boy or the videographer.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Jan 31, 2012 9:07 AM CST reply actions
How about some wild theories?
One, they are obviously waiting for the SB. Could they being going after McDaniels? Is he under contract? Did NE want him as a “consultant”, especially for the Denver game? etc.?
Craziest one…… are they waiting, or do they have some information about Peyton Manning that affects this entire thought process?
Just nutty thinking.
Or, maybe they want the Giants OC
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
McD is their new OC after the SB
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Very, very true
I haven’t seen a Donkey get beat like that since it was hanging off a tree filled with candy.
A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones that need the advice.
by Zayla on Jan 31, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
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