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Kansas City Safeties - Not Good Enough

ProFootballFocus always does a good job at looking at things position by position, and last week they posted this evaluation on NFL safeties and their ability to make a tackle: http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/25/2011-tackling-the-safeties/

This isn't about passes defended, it's about tackling - so if you want to comment on anything else, go for it, but I'm working with the tackling numbers.

How did KC grade - uh...well, we get an F, but hey, we tried really hard. We had 3 safeties in the bottom 20. Wanna guess who they are?

Star-divide

Out of 88 safeties:

Weird. Is Piscatelli NOT on the list? I couldn't believe it myself.

Eric Berry, our pro-bowler who can do no wrong, was obviously eliminated from competition in this category early in the season. And he was sorely missed on the tackling front.

No other team had 3 safeties in the bottom 20. We managed to get all three of ours in the bottom 16. IN YOUR FACE, GOOD TEAMS!

I believe that our defense is the key to our success over the next few years (mainly because I have no faith in Cassel, even if he does have a good O-line). So if we're going to be strong, Romeo has to get everyone to use sound tackling fundamentals, Berry has to stay healthy, and we have to get some quality safety depth.

We may pick up a lower level free agent safety, but safety is one of those positions where it's easy to transition to the pros, and you can always find good safety prospects that should be available in the mid-rounds.

Mark Barron (SS - Alabama) the top strong safety should be the only safety taken in the first round, and Markelle Martin (FS - Ok St) - the top free safety should be the only safety taken in the second round. That means that we can get quality depth at safety in rounds 3-5 that would be 2nd or 3rd best prospects at their positions.

Regardless of whether we do or do not pick up a safety, our safeties need to definitely improve their tackling.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Watch for Winston Guy out of Kentucky

He’s a tackling animal. He had 120 total tackles this past year. Combined, McGraw, Washington, and Lewis had 132 tackles in 2011. Projected in round 3-5, this dude is a tackling machine. He’s probably a SS, which means he’d be backing up Berry.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 5:05 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

He is an SS until he can learn to flip his hips quicker

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I knew I liked you Gentry.....and not just for your taste in Cravats...............

……………I happened to watch quite a few Kentucky games and he IS a tackling machine. He returns kicks as well. BAMF even had some good things to say about him. He said he needed some polishing but I’m all for The Crennel $25 wax job!

/no skitzo

by Masons on Jan 30, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Well with that wax job.. you will be able to salsa verryyyyy well

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:08 PM CST up reply actions  

wax and salsa ...

I might need to just stay away from the two of you guys

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:13 PM CST up reply actions  

With lips like those?

You are going to be involved

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:26 PM CST up reply actions  

nope, I'm staying far, far away ...

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions  

:'(

Need those lips for the wax job! yoouuuuu caaaaannnnnttttt llllleeaaavvvveeeeee nnnnoooowwwwww

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:38 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

and to think we have a post called "Mancrush United"

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:47 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Be gentle, no crushing!

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

got it

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions  

Berry and Lewis

we’ll be fine, add some depth in the later rnds so be it. Otherwise we have needs at oline that need to be adressed in MHO

by tomachop on Jan 30, 2012 5:07 PM CST reply actions  

Lewis is weak link of DBs.

Depth has proven to be lacking as well.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 30, 2012 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

Well with Berry/Flowers/Carr

A lot of the starting FS would be the weak link in that group

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Best Safety yes

DB, no.

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:06 PM CST up reply actions  

other than being like Top 10 CBs in some statistical categories ... yeah, I can see that

whatever, right?

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

If Kendrick Lewis is the weak link

Than you know you’ve put together an excellent secondary

by KC_Chiefs on Jan 31, 2012 8:28 AM CST up reply actions  

Klewis and Berry are going to be great for the next 10 years.

We do need depth at Safety. I disagree that if we upgrade at O line, our offense is going to suck with Cassel. Since what every believes makes it a fact,
I believe we are putting together a dangerous Offense with our WR and Charles. If Cassel can win 10 games in 2010 with that team, we should be able to win more games in 2012 if we upgrade at O line.

This is a make it or break it year for Cassel,If we don’t have a winning season in 2012 he will not be our QB in 2013, I predict he throws for over 4,000 yards
and we have two WR receiving over 1,000 yards and Charles rushes for at least 1,400 yards.

by rdlvegas85 on Jan 31, 2012 1:09 PM CST up reply actions  

So with a harder schedule Cassel will be better? Nope

Yes our Oline needs help for that dream to even come close

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Fascinating Facts ... nice work here, Gentry!

I’ve been thinking Antonio Allen in the 3rd Round … this makes me want the guy even more

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 5:13 PM CST reply actions  

Wasn't he a hybrid OLB/S?

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions  

Yep

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 5:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, Some college defenses even use extra CBs for certain run defense responsibilities much like a LB.

To cover sweeps , penetrate to force runs inside, guard against screen plays, etc. Common in college due to mutiple WR sets and spread offenses.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Feb 2, 2012 8:24 AM CST up reply actions  

I just see him listed at Safety

from a guy at the Senior Bowl:

4 – Antonio Allen, S, South Carolina: Allen is a player that has a good feel for finding the ball and seems to be a pretty reliable tackler. I’m not sure how he is in coverage though, so I’m looking forward to seeing him more today

https://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/tag/antonio-allen/

his Senior Bowl numbers are …

Antonio Allen HT 6’ 1/2" WT 202

http://walterfootball.com/seniorbowl2012weighinDB.php

just says Safety … or DB

btw, he was one of 15 semifinalists for the 2011 Jim Thorpe Award given to the nation’s top defensive back, so there’s that

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

In college he's started the last two seasons at SPUR and he's the only one in the country.

SPUR is basically a hybriid S/LB so he’s seen alot of time doing and learning the intricasies of both positions. He’s a sure tackler and lead the team in tackles for most games. His position allowed him to be all over the field and he’s actually really good in coverage especially against bigger WR/TEs although he doesn’t have the quickness to cover a slot receiver. His best stretch came from the last couple of games last year to the first few games of this year where he had a turnover in 5 straight games and a defensive TD in 4 of 6.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

seems really light for LB ...

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:16 PM CST up reply actions  

Pretty much the same role as we used McGraw

Closer to the line, up on TEs, etc

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:28 PM CST up reply actions  

yes, he is

I found this on Allen…

2010: Played in 12 contests, starting 11 games at Spur position… despite missing the first two games with hamstring injury, still finished second on the squad with 70 tackles… logged 10.5 tackles for loss, second on the squad, and 2.5 sacks…forced a fumble on his first career sack vs. Alabama… had seven stops in win over Tennessee, including 4.0 tackles for loss and 1.5 sacks; also forced a fumble on a sack that led to a Carolina touchdown… intercepted his first career pass and returned it 37 yards for a touchdown in win over Clemson… led team and matched his career best with eight tackles in the SEC Championship Game vs. Auburn; also credited with four quarterback hurries in the game.

…and some explanations on what is called a “spur position” (since I didnt know what it meant):

In a zone coverage situation the spurs job is to cover curl to flat, in a man coverage situation his job is to line up over top the end of the line and cover the slot reciever or the tight end. In most situations the spur’s first responsibility is the pass and the only time his first priority is to stop the run is when he reads an option or a pitch. The spur is always suppose to take the pitch man. The spur’s job is pass first then run…that is why he is more of a db than a linebacker

You can hit and support the run like a linebacker but can cover and are athletic enough to be a safety.
The way troy polamalu plays safety for the steelers is exactly what the ideal Spur would do

generally speaking I think the importance of the safety position cannot be overestimated in todays game (pass-happiness, evolution of the TE etc.); so I’d be very happy if we add another versatile player alongside berry that gives us more flexibilty with def. schemes / assignments (zone, double coverage, run support, blitzing) – what makes opposing QBs reads more difficult. A symmetrical scheme of to hybrids instead of having fixed FS/SS assignments. kendrick lewis isn’t bad at all but he’s not that kind of player. So Allen in the 3rd would be perfect for me.

9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur

by ezoo on Jan 30, 2012 6:15 PM CST up reply actions  

nfldraftseason.com has lots of positive things to say about allen; the only negatives beeing “a hamstring issue last year” and “low INT numbers” basically.

Allen plays smart, while still playing aggressively. Instead of jumping into the pile when the ball carrier is touched he waits to see if the player makes it out he makes sure to cut out their legs from under them … Generally makes good decisions and reads when dealing with PA and QB read plays. .. His position […] is basically what Polamalu plays in Pittsburg. He is not as rangy as his Steelers counterpart, but he is similar in run support and vision…Takes great angles to the ball when the RB or WR tries to stretch a play out. […] does a good job of making the RB make a cut, reading that cut, and making the tackle. … Can tackle bigger backs with ease, does a good job wrapping people up around the hips, and when he can’t do that he hits them in the thighs. May get hurtled. … His top end speed is O.K.
He needs to go to a system where man coverage is not the go to strategy. Could be used as a situational OLB in a 3-4 defense to confuse opposing quarterbacks at the next level. Has the pass rushing skills to blitz or the run support skills to handle most tight ends. …He needs to find a home in a 3-4 defense if he wants to be a great starter…he will probably fall to the 4-5 round.

I’m impressed – very impressed. If all this is true I think he’d fit perfectly with the Chiefs D.

9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur

by ezoo on Jan 30, 2012 6:36 PM CST up reply actions  

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice!

now I’d like him as a Chief even more than ever

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:45 PM CST up reply actions  

1-2-3: decastro-adams-allen?

9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur

by ezoo on Jan 30, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

dunno, never have been sold on Adams ... 1 & 3 are spot on, yes yes yes please!

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 7:12 PM CST up reply actions  

Adams would be a steal in the 2nd

I’m all for that draft, as long as they get a good TE in FA

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 8:18 AM CST up reply actions  

fine, you talked me into it ...

1) DeCastro
2) Adams
3) Antonio Allen

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 9:35 AM CST up reply actions  

phone it in to the league

tell Pioli to take the draft days off

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions  

No way

Adam is being talked about as a top 15 pick after the senior bowl. However, I’ll take it if its there! How about Zebri Sanders from Florida St.? He fits the Zone blocking scheme great as that is the system they ran in college. Also he is very talented.

by xhornetsx on Jan 31, 2012 8:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Did they run a power or zone scheme up front?

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 9:13 AM CST up reply actions  

good question

i would imagine power, since they probably didn’t have time to develop complex protections

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 9:14 AM CST up reply actions  

I didn't watch the game yet, still have it recorded

Most ZBS prospects don’t look the best 1 on 1

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

true.

but, if KC fans are upset with Lilja/Weigmann because they get “pushed back” a lot (even though those guys generally get the job done)….they won’t like Sanders, who will get pushed around a bit

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 9:17 AM CST up reply actions  

Except Lilja/Weigs killed a lot of drives/scoring chances last year

Due to being pushed back up the middle, that is not a huge deal with a OT who can get help forward or push the rusher passed the QB in a wide arc. Have to be solid up front either way, to keep a clean pocket to step up, or to gain those 1 or 3 yards needed.

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 9:19 AM CST up reply actions  

well once we get DeCastro to replace Lilja we won't have to worry about that

so there

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Question becomes do we stick with the ZBS

I don’t mind getting a RT either way who is quick enough with his feet to mirror a pass rusher, due to the defenses putting their best pass rusher on that side quite often now. Wouldn’t mind an Oline like the Saints have, brick wall in the middle with the outsides being able to run the arc and also move in space.

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 9:48 AM CST up reply actions  

my opinion

absolutely they stick with it.

Hudson, Asamoah, Lilja are all perfect fits for it, Albert is too

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions  

Asamoah and Albert could play either

Lilja is on his way out, Hudson is a wildcard, but generally even in power schemes the center will get help against NTs or help the G’s against DTs

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions  

Charles will be more productive if we stick with the ZBS

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Charles is perfect, with the one-cut-and-go style

Hudson is absolutely a ZBS guy, no doubt.

I like the scheme, and I think it gives an advantage when drafting guys that may not be ideal for power-blocking fall

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

I'm not a ZBS guy, but......

…………….it is what it is and if The Chiefs are in it for the long haul, your 100% right , it is an advantage with guys falling. I’ll just add this, don’t let them fall too far; )

/no skitzo

by Masons on Jan 31, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions  

More than Charles

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions  

He sucked in 1 on 1

But he was very solid in game. I think its a ZBS thing where the line works as a unit a bit more then in a power blocking scheme. He’s not going to dominate one on one although if I’m spending a 2nd rounder on him Id hope he would do a bit better even in the individual drills.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Your concerns

Are they about him getting beat 1 v 1 against Coples? Because… Coples is kinda a freak top 10 type player… Sanders has EXTENSIVE experience in the ZBS. And a former teammate on the Chiefs in Rodney Hudson that he considers a good friend. I’m sure he can help out.

by xhornetsx on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 PM CST up reply actions  

With the lack of depth at safety in this draft and how I know Allen will look in shorts

He may go as high as late 2nd round. I’m hoping it’s more like 3rd and he’s there for us to take.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 5:55 PM CST up reply actions  

in shorts?

I wonder about you sometimes …

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 5:58 PM CST up reply actions  

No homo.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 6:00 PM CST up reply actions  

my bad, I didn't see it there in your original comment ;-)

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 6:18 PM CST up reply actions  

For Piscatelli to miss a tackle..

He has to first be in position to MAKE the tackle.

Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011

by ArrowSpread on Jan 30, 2012 5:29 PM CST reply actions   2 recs

Right on Spread

That dude was always out of position

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 8:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree with assessment.

Even when EB returns we need better depth at FS and SS. Actually, I would like to see positions virtually interchangable. IMO the tackling stats tell part of the story. The deep coverage skill and recovery speed can also be improved in our defensive backfield. In two years we have seen at least one and way too many games with two starters missing. Besides, many of our nickle and dime defensive allignments cry out for a third safety with cover skills. ( Or a CB with size and attitude that would suit a Safety.)

Possible safeties: 2nd Allen (SC), 3rd Smith (ND), 3rd Iloka (Boise), 4th Henry (Wisc), 5th -6th Whitley (Va Tech)

Possible CBs: 2nd Gilmore (SC), 2nd Minnifield Va, 3rd Johnson (IA St), 3rd Johnson (Mont),(VA), 7th Asa Jackson (Cal Poly)

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 30, 2012 5:37 PM CST reply actions  

Jackson, 6-UDFA

Still love the idea of Minnifield as FS

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:07 PM CST up reply actions  

Add Markelle Martin to the list of Safety's...he should go between rounds 2-3.

Per CBSSports.com on Markelle Martin:

Man Coverage: Not a major liability in man coverage. Good enough foot speed and length to stay with slot receivers in four-wide sets on short patterns. Reads receivers’ routes and anticipates throws at the first down marker. Best lined well off the line of scrimmage, though, due to high, stiff backpedal. Also lacks elite speed to recover if beaten on double move.

Zone Coverage: Covers a lot of ground in a hurry when in space. Reads the quarterback’s eyes and see the routes very quickly, then has straight-line speed to arrive with or just after the ball. Aware in the red zone, stays on the back line to take away fade throws. NFL quarterbacks may take advantage of his aggressiveness in man and zone, eyeing up short routes and going over the top behind him.

Ball Skills: Capable of making quarterbacks pay for late throws. Closes to the ball quite well and possesses the hands to snatch throws away from his frame. Straight-line speed allows him to return the pick to the end zone. Not fully consistent on making the interception in front of receivers, but gets to the ball regularly.

Run Support: See the ball well, even when deep, and explodes to the ballcarrier on stretch plays to either sideline. Cognizant of tight end and linemen blocks when coming downhill; won’t bully them one-on-one, but frees himself whenever possible by extending his arm.

Tackling: Unleashes big hits on receivers, making them hear footsteps later in the game, using closing speed and tenacity to arrive with maximum impact. Strong upper body allows him to drag down backs to the ground in the space. Ducks his head and swipes too often on open field tackles, however, and will draw the occasional personal foul flag. Not asked to blitz often, but should be solid in that capacity once learning how to beat pass blocks with his hands given his strength and tenacity.

Intangibles: Plays through the whistle, sometimes on the other side. Very good student, won 2010 team award for his academic performance. Missed 2011 spring practices after having surgery on his left shoulder, also missed time in 2009 with a hip injury.

—Chad Reuter

by DivineGrace on Jan 30, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions  

yah, seen his name a few times, good prospect ...

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 8:31 PM CST up reply actions  

Martin will almost definitely be picked in the 2nd

He’s the cream of the crop for free safety, so if we want to spend our 2nd rounder on him, he’ll probably be there. Ups, I like your guy Antonio Allen, and I like my “guy” Winston Guy. I think he could be the steal of the draft. This is from Walter Football (I know, I know), but he’s got Guy ranked #3 out of all the safeties who are in the draft this year.

Guy Jr. started out the season with a huge game against Western Kentucky. He recorded 10 tackles with 2.5 tackles for a loss and two interceptions in the season opener and that set the tone for 2011. Guy Jr. stayed consistent and sent his stock on the rise. This year, he had 120 tackles with 14 tackles for a loss, two passes broken up, two interceptions and a forced fumble. Guy is a tough run defender who operates extremely well in the tackle box. He also does well downfield and can deliver some jarring hits. Guy is an underrated prospect.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 8:41 PM CST up reply actions  

Guy looks interesting too

On a Walter note though, he doesnt have Allen on his list of safeties.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 8:48 PM CST up reply actions  

I know, was looking earlier and was stunned not to see him ... looked in LB, CB ... no clue where he's listed

that was odd, but it’s not like they don’t know about him

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 9:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah, that's a weird one

Allen is definitely a top flight safety, so to not see him there is really weird. I’m not a fan of Walter, but some of his info is good.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions  

I have been high on Iloka (Boise) for a long time as a real steal. Now I see that CBS has moved him up to #1 ranked FS.
01/25/2012 – 2012 SENIOR BOWL WEDNESDAY: FS George Iloka, Boise State: At nearly 6-4 and 222 pounds, Iloka looks more like a potential linebacker than a free safety, but his athleticism and instincts have been on display all week long. He intercepted a pass during Tuesday’s practice, making an impressive diving pick-off of Michigan State’s Kirk Cousins in front of Massachusetts’ H-back Emil Igwenagu. Iloka is not surprisingly a bit high in his back pedal but he showed surprising agility and burst when asked to drop down and cover receivers when the offense switched to a three receiver set. In a relatively weak year for safeties (outside of Alabama’s Mark Barron), Iloka’s size, athleticism and experience (40 consecutive starts) stand out. – Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

So much for sneaking in a sleeper in 3rd or 4th round. Iloka is now ranked ahead of Martin by CBS.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Feb 2, 2012 8:34 AM CST up reply actions  

Like Wilson a few years ago, those Boise State DBs just seem to rise on everyones board

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Feb 2, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm not concerned with Lewis' misses

He doesn’t need to be the best tackler in the league as a FS and he’s proven that he actually has very good tackling skill(Tebow fumble anyone?). We do desperately need depthx2, leaving Washington and Jersey Shore on the street and McGraw as last on the depth chart.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 5:53 PM CST reply actions  

Lewis cost us pretty dearly more than once early in the season

With his bad form arm tackles.

He did look better the last quarter or so of the season though.

One awesome highlight reel tackle doesn’t erase a year and a half of bad tackling.

I really like the guy, and I’m glad he showed improvement toward the end of the season. Hopefully he can continue that.

But you never want your last line of defense between you and the end zone being a guy who can’t tackle.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 7:33 AM CST up reply actions  

I see Lewis as more a liability when asked to cover deep sideline and deep post. He is good but still the weak link in a very good secondary.

He is OK when he comes forward but his footspeed does not allow him to recover fast enough if he bites on a fake or looks at an inside route too long. I love Martin (OSU) as a potential FS/ nickel/dime and am intrigued with Minnifield as a CB/FS. Martin may be wishfull thinking as I see him going late in 1st or early 2nd. Gilmore is another long, lanky CB to look for.

Besides starters we need depth for nickel and dime situations. Way too much McGraw last two years and Sabby is worth a mere last resort option (if that).

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 31, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment

Quality depth at S is a more pressing need than trying to straight up replace Lewis at this point, I’d think.

We can’t have an all-pro at every position, as nice as it would be. But there is definitely room for improvement there, and if the opportunity presents itself to upgrade, it would be crazy not to.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 9:40 AM CST up reply actions  

Not to mention

That blown coverage in the Oakland game that set up the game winning FG

In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Not even buying into the "stat" that Lewis is a bad safety

he makes huge plays, and he doesn’t let big plays happen. 12 misses on 62 attempts… wow now that for one is a terrible scale, a terrible statistic which shows nothing without footage to show Lewis is bad at making tackles when he should be making them, and one of the worst method to rate a safety. If you watched the Chiefs this season, you would know one of the reasons our d looked so good at times is because Lewis was an animal playing safety despite having to play with Piss, Langford, and Washington.

by andrew33 on Jan 30, 2012 6:19 PM CST reply actions  

He took some bad angles

His play did improve throughout the season, as did the whole defense adjusting without Berry

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:32 PM CST up reply actions  

A few bad angles

and he took really good angles and had great coverage most of the time.

by andrew33 on Jan 30, 2012 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I do agree

Berry was a huge blow for our D. I think Lewis had a fantastic year despite having piss on the field. Looking forward to see the Chiefs adjusting back with Berry haha.

by andrew33 on Jan 30, 2012 6:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Most of the bad plays/angles will stick out, the good plays/coverages where he is not mentioned

Or on screen will never be brought up haha

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 30, 2012 6:54 PM CST up reply actions  

assuming Berry is back at 100% AND Carr is back, we only need to pick up one for depth ... drop Sabby ... and we're much improved already, right?

at least in the Secondary

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 30, 2012 7:14 PM CST up reply actions  

I don't think Lewis is a bad safety

The stats that PFF shared were all about tackling. It doesn’t take into account anything else. But what I think it does show is that other than Berry who was a tackling machine last year, our safeties aren’t technically sound in tackling. Plus our depth is total crap, as we all know. One really good safety to compete + Berry back and healthy could really help us in coverage and the run game.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 8:43 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

No one sayin Lewis is "Bad".

I would hope we are beyond point were we are replacing a bad player for an OK player. We need up grades from pretty fair to good and very good to great as well. Any up grade can help the team at any position.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 31, 2012 6:03 PM CST up reply actions  

I've been saying this for several months now. Add into this how slow Lewis is and it

is easy to see we could use an upgrade. Lewis did play better down the stretch and last year RAC got wise enough to use Berry as the deep center fielder cause we were torched way to much. In all honesty I did see improvement on Sabby’s play late in the year and think the reps and Emmitt’s coaching helped tremendously.Last years entire group was sub par, excluding EB, and I have a S as a need to fill rather than want or depth. Darkhorse first round pick is the TE from Georgia. Let us put some pressure on the opponents safeties.

by dubld on Jan 30, 2012 7:16 PM CST reply actions  

Lewis is slow?

Lewis is far from slot and has pretty good instincts, especially in the run game to make up for any perceived lack in speed.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 30, 2012 7:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Huh

he ran a 4.7 in the 40 and he’s what 200 lbs soaking wet

In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:03 PM CST up reply actions  

4.65 proday

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 3:14 PM CST up reply actions  

On a bad hamstring.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:51 PM CST up reply actions  

Can't really agree with that

Lewis has good vision and reacts well, and gets to where he needs to be. Him not setting the world on fire with his 40 time on an iffy hamstring isn’t really a big deal.

He’s usually where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

He’s just not very consistent at making the tackle.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 7:36 AM CST up reply actions  

Because you know exactly who has what coverage assignment on all the plays?

Pretty fascinating stuff.

Sometimes (fairly often) we pull one or other (occasionally both) safeties up in the box, or up in man on a TE, depending on the personnel package. We do leave our CB’s in single coverage a good bit because, well, they’re pretty good.

Will Lewis be perfect at his assignments? As a second year player, of course not. Berry got blown up a good bit last year as well. They’re both young players. But Lewis being out of position isn’t an issue. And neither is his speed. (Can’t say the same for McGraw on the speed). But Lewis’ tackling has been suspect for 1 3/4 season, and only reliable for about 1/4 of a season so far. So that definitely needs improvement.

Sometimes it’s a LB (we gave up a long TD late in the season on a blown coverage that was DJ’s.

And who’s asking for average players? You’re assuming quite a bit. Especially since I’ve caught hell more than once during the season for saying that if we can upgrade Lewis’ spot in the off season, we should do it. Though running his ass through the ringer to work on his tackling all off season while we focus on areas that are in bigger needs of an upgrade would work just fine, too.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 8:09 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah right, look at the tape and you see Lewis trying to get there and he ain't got it in him.

You caught hell, big deal as if you actually care what others think, truth is truth and the guy lost us games cause of poor tackling. Many around here don’t know much when it comes to football except what they read. I ain’t here to be popular but to express what I see regarding this team. Having a safety who is slow and an iffy tackler is actually below average. I’ve seen happy horseshit saying Lewis is a complimentary Safety for Berry which is total BS. Complimentary players, WTF is that. This is pro ball and what you see is what you get. Maybe Lewis will learn to be a better tackler but I just don’t see him as a NFL starting caliber of talent.

by dubld on Jan 31, 2012 9:04 AM CST up reply actions  

You're wrong

Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.

by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 31, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Where did you see this coahes tape?

What airs on TV does not give a good idea on the secondary, where they are supposed to be or how the play develops if the ball goes the other direction.

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really, if he is covering deep half on one side of the field

The play goes the other way due to coverage by Lewis on his side, and he can’t make up the distance, that is not on him. He could be playing shallow, the play goes deep fast.. etc

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 3:15 PM CST up reply actions  

we can maybe get

Allen or the boise guy In those later rounds maybe but I agree other then Lewis we need help Berry and Lewis can’t do it alone

by kcchiefs2782 on Jan 30, 2012 7:43 PM CST via Android app reply actions  

I just dont think

we should use our 2nd round pick to draft a safety when we already have our starters in place. Just think a pick that high should be used for a position in which we can put the guy in right away.

by andrew33 on Jan 30, 2012 9:47 PM CST reply actions  

Agreed

That’s why I’m saying that we can get some real quality in rounds 3-5. The best free safety and the best strong safety in the draft are the only two safeties that look to be picked in the first two rounds. I’m advocating for going after the 2nd or 3rd best safety at one of those position in 3-5.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 30, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Good thoughts. If QB upgrade is not in the cards then:

DB help is a need. Priority on Defense should be:
1) More pressure on Passer from base 3-4.
2) More quality depth for Nickel and Dime packages. CB who can support run or Safety who can offer good coverage and protect deep routes as well as support run defense.
3) ILB help.

Everything comes after help for O-Line.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 31, 2012 9:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Considering how much of the game we play in sub packages

And how this is turning into even more of a passing league and the emergence of TEs which is going to become even more trendy, a high pick safety is a guy that we can put in right away and that will get alot of snaps.

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 8:45 AM CST up reply actions  

^^This.

I was just thinking about this yesterday. We definitely NEED another safety. I never want to see McGraw or Sucatelli starting for us again. You’ve got to think that Pioli’s got this on his radar, and I think it’s a priority… maybe even second on the list after OL.

And don’t start about the QB. I don’t think we’re going to see much change there.

by Ozarks on Jan 31, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions  

agreed

I’ve been saying that I wouldn’t be too suprised or upset to see a S taken in round 2 or 3

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions  

Strange

I’ve always thought of McGraw as one of the more consistent tacklers on the team. Always seemed like if he had a guy lined up, he took him down.

by bh13 on Jan 30, 2012 10:44 PM CST reply actions  

Hey Sabby may not be able to miss tackles like the greats

But find me a guy who can’t blow as many plays as him? Oh wait, KC had that guy two seasons ago. Yep, Mike Brown. Remember him? Mr let-me-escort-you-to-the-endzone himself

KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round

by trentchiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:19 AM CST reply actions  

Pollard

Mr I’m-gonna-knock-you-ou…-oh-I-missed

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 5:44 AM CST up reply actions  

Bad safety play seems to becoming a habit in Kansas City

Glad we’ve at least got Berry

KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round

by trentchiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 6:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Only proves that S is a top 3 need for us in the offseason

considering how much nickel we play we need quality DBs who can cover AND make the tackle. George Iloka. good 3rd round player to watch out for. Would be very happy with him.

KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round

by trentchiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 2:26 AM CST reply actions  

missed tackles is NOT the only measure of a S

INTs, Passes Defended, tackles…

Lewis: 3 INT (tied for 10th best with Ed Reed and a bunch of others including McGraw), 10 PD (12th most for a S)

Lewis wasn’t perfect this year, but he was pretty damn good.

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 8:29 AM CST reply actions  

Fortunately, I haven't seen anywhere in this thread where anybody said that the only measure of a safety is his tackling ability.

It is, however, a vital part of the position. And something you want your guy whose big responsibility is preventing the big play, to be able to do.

And our guys didn’t, this year.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

Nah, pretty sure the title isn't "Tackling is the only thing you can measure a safety by"

The title is correct though.

Our safeties aren’t good enough.

That can be fixed, either by personnel moves or by improving their tackling.

Just like when a HB is a good runner but sucks at picking up a blitz when he’s asked to stay back in protection. He’s not good enough. He can improve. Doesn’t mean he can’t contribute in a meaningful way.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Second paragraph, stagdsp
This isn’t about passes defended, it’s about tackling – so if you want to comment on anything else, go for it, but I’m working with the tackling numbers.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 31, 2012 8:54 AM CST up reply actions  

I can read pretty well :)

and I DID comment on something else, as requested

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Ed Reed was on the list of bad tacklers....yet he's the best FS in the game

Its not like people didn’t know Kendrick Lewis was a bad tackler, we’ve seen him before, doesn’t mean he’s a bad safety.

by KC_Chiefs on Jan 31, 2012 8:33 AM CST reply actions  

Not-good-enough =/= bad

It means that we can improve there. And in fact, there’s a need to improve there.

And as soon as Lewis becomes enough of a threat that OC’s have to adjust their entire game plan for him like they do for Reed, a few more missed tackles are more forgivable.

I’d be all about that.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 8:53 AM CST up reply actions  

^^This^^

I think Lewis is a good player, but he had tackling issues. Ed Reed needs to work on his tackling too. But there are other things these guys do to make up for it. I don’t think Lewis is anywhere close to Reed, but he’s not bad. McGraw and Piscatelli on the other hand are bad for completely different reasons. And we need some depth because McGraw should (but probably won’t) retire, and Piscatelli should be cut pronto.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 31, 2012 8:56 AM CST up reply actions  

Has a team ever had 2 safties that OC's had to game plan against?

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 9:15 AM CST up reply actions  

So in contination of that thought...

We can assume Lewis will never be Ed Reed…

So he can’t afford to be sloppy at missing tackles

I love it when a plan comes together.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 9:37 AM CST up reply actions  

Or with Berry back, Lewis can play deep and still should have less tackles to attempt

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 9:49 AM CST up reply actions  

His tackling was a liability last year even with Berry here.

So no thanks.

He needs to improve that aspect of his game, or his spot will go to someone else sooner or later.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 10:02 AM CST up reply actions  

agreed

Berry cleans up a LOT of messes, and kills it on Run Support.
Lewis can play more “centerfield”
CBs can play more aggressive and blitz more, knowing the Safeties have their backs

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 10:03 AM CST up reply actions  

From, "The Peanut Gallery" IMHO...pressuring the QB helps an average S look good.

…………….I believe Houston is the key there. He really started to click, in my eyes, at the end of the season. Now he can get a full training camp and really learn his craft. He and Hali, along with Berry, will make Lewis look a whole lot better. I’m very optimistic about this defense, it was clicking towards the end and add Berry to that mix….yea I like that.

/no skitzo

by Masons on Jan 31, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions  

somewhat, yes

but, I don’t think Lewis is really weak in that department, personally.
he seems like a pretty good ballhawk back there… there were a few instances where the CB released a guy and the S couldn’t get there… but I wonder how many of those were miscommunications, as opposed to a lack of physical ability on Lewis’ part

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 10:20 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah miscommunication is a pretty reasonable expectation for this season

Since even RAC admitted they had to make some wholesale changes to the D after Berry went it.

There’s no doubt it took a good while to get those things working smoothly.

Man we really missed that guy this year.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Never the less, Lewis is the weak link in our secondary (when Berry returns).

I would rather see Berry more in role of FS “Centerfield” and a stronger run supporter/ cover safety going forward in a SS role. Ideally both would be versitile enough to switch roles often.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 31, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions  

yeah, drafting a 3rd S would be very smart

and I think it’s pretty likely

I would be happy with Lloka or Allen

Lewis isn’t the weak link in the secondary… as long as Sabby, Washington, McGraw, Langford are still on the roster :)

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions  

is it worth going after 2 guys in 3rd and later rounds?

Allen and ??? for example … obviously “churn the roster” at the bottom and Sabby falls out, who goes next and how high is the need?

only so many spots that WILL turn over in a year anyway …

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions  

I could absolutely see them taking 2 DBs

I’d prefer one in the 3rd ish, and one in FA

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions  

If we do, I'd see a Safety and a CB, probably not 2 Safeties

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 31, 2012 8:14 PM CST up reply actions  

"...a stronger run supporter/cover safety..."

So in other words, Berry :)

When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick

by Brsrkr on Jan 31, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions  

clone him?

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

I see Berry as prototype for FS/SS/CB.

RAC loves versatility. Another Safety name to throw out in this years draft is HArrison Smith (ND). In early to middle rounds I like Allen then Iloka then Smith.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 31, 2012 6:10 PM CST up reply actions  

For a minute there, I was worried about the Redskins tandem of Landry and Taylor

Both drafted in the top 10, both huge, and both young, unfortunately we all know how the story ends.

"There's a reason it's called 'girls gone wild' and not 'women gone wild'. When girls go wild, they show their tits. When women go wild, they kill men and drown their kids in a tub". - Louis CK

by severn58 on Jan 31, 2012 10:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Yeah that's the thing, even in todays NFL safeties are generally one of the last parts to get worked over

Til you get 2 ’’elite’’ safeties. With how the Pats have been running the TE sets, we might see more teams churning safeties until they get 2 good guys. I would rather find a good rover.. not only a safety, but a S/CB ala Woodson nowadays where he can roam, match up, blitz, tackle.. like Berry

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions  

note to Minnifeild: watch out for BAMF and Masons
Minnefield, that kind of guy?

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 12:26 PM CST up reply actions  

Addendum to Note to Minniefield: you might want to consider wearing a disguise if drafted by Chiefs

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 1:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Agree, as much as we need DB help, we need O-Line help even more.

Best way to improve D is to keep it off the field. I like idea of going bigger in the interior of O-Line. If we miss out on one of top OTs or DeCastro (who I love) we may go bigger. I like idea of trading back a little and picking a bigger OG like Glenn (GA). He would be solid at RG but it seems he is also able to compete at RT and sure to be able to play a solid RT if asked.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Jan 31, 2012 10:14 AM CST reply actions  

?

Anyone remember the kid from USC that was cut…Mayes? maybe, and did he land somewhere.

by 12t on Jan 31, 2012 11:56 AM CST reply actions  

Don't think he was cut, he was traded from the 49ers to Cinci for a low pick, because he has major issues

He may have been cut from Cinci for all I know though

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions  

Taylor Mays

as athletic as Berry but with the brain of a radish

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 1:48 PM CST up reply actions  

why the hate for radishes?

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Pinocchio

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Clearly he's radishist.

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 2:18 PM CST up reply actions  

One could make the case he is more athletic than Berry

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions  

That's why I stopped with athletic haha

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 31, 2012 3:16 PM CST up reply actions  

A large part of being an athlete....

is mental. I have to laugh when they say the NBA has the best athletes in the world…sure, playing the easiest sport, and taking into consideration that you have a 1 in 17 chance of being in the NBA if you’re over 7’ tall.

by 12t on Jan 31, 2012 4:25 PM CST up reply actions  

heh
playing the easiest sport

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 4:49 PM CST up reply actions  

EASY?!? Roger Murdock would like a word with you ...
LISTEN KID! I’ve been hearing that crap ever since I was at UCLA. I’m out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes …

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 5:04 PM CST up reply actions   1 recs

Roger, Roger

What’s our vector, Victor?

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Feb 1, 2012 7:21 AM CST up reply actions  

No disrespect because you did a nice job

But Kendrick Lewis is an excellent safety. I’m not a homer and I call it like I see it (just read my posts on multiple Chiefs), but my eyes tell me Lewis is a playmaker. Some guys just get the job done, and Lewis is always doing something positive. He and Berry are the best FS/SS combo in the league….easily

We're the same team as last year, except incredibly better, and with new players.

by Flowers24 on Jan 31, 2012 2:30 PM CST reply actions  

I agree that he's a very solid safety

with plenty of room to get better.

I wouldn’t call them “easily” the best combo in the league… but they could easily be on their way… and and those saying Lewis is “not a starter in the league” are not watching the same guy I am

by stagdsp on Jan 31, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Flowers, did you really just say you're not a homer? (huge grin)

Berry and Lewis are a VERY good pair, but “easily best in the league” is stretching things, even for a homer like you … Berry is awesome but even he has room to improve, and Lewis has much more room still … not a knock on Lewis, great guy and good player, but he’s not “all that” yet by any means

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 31, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we are underestimating Berry

Given the rate at which he was improving the last 8 games of 2010, he may have been the best safety in the league by the end of 2011.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I am glad we drafted him

he is the next Ronnie Lott.

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 31, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions  

I would look at Sean Baker in the 5th

he’s kind of a poor mans Eric Weddle

In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:04 PM CST reply actions  

he got what 9 mill a year

But the dude is a stud

In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 31, 2012 3:12 PM CST up reply actions  

That was a quiet hope of mine

Us with tons of cap room, him being as good as he is (but costing a lot too).

Weddle + Berry backfield would’ve been freaki’ dreamy.

/le sigh

It's no fun if I have to explain it.

by TRSChief on Jan 31, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions  

One thing to consider

Alot of us really like Lewis as FS. He’s a good player and only a second year player. He has his pros and cons. What I don’t get is why do we get so defensive when it comes to the idea of replacing him with a better player.This team is at the point where there isn’t a ton of glaring holes and you have the luxury to start adding more talent at positions where we already have talent. So does it matter if another safety comes in and outplays Lewis and takes his spot pushing him to depth?

"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"

by GenericBrand on Jan 31, 2012 3:53 PM CST reply actions  

Good point, but it makes me think of Pioli's horrible decision to keep playing Cassel.

While there are specific QBs i rather have Chiefs play than Cassel (Manning, Orton), I have a problem with the fact that Cassel is still playing rather than the fact that we aren’t bringing in _______ to replace Cassel.

Whats the point of collecting luxury when the GM insists on playing one of the worst in the most important position in football year after year… Hopefully, Pioli is waiting for Manning’s status then will try and sign Orton if Manning retires/goes somewhere else.

by andrew33 on Jan 31, 2012 4:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I think the main reason is...

That we look at our starters and see bigger glaring holes. RT, QB, NT, OG, ILB, and then we think…you know, Lewis is pretty damn good. He’s NOT bad…but if we patched up those other holes with decent players, I think we might start looking at safety as a question mark. Not a knock against Lewis, just reality. He’s good, not great, and we’ve got a lot of other areas that are just BAD. So we don’t look his way all that often.

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 31, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Even though it is far from our biggest need

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Feb 2, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

An upgrade from average to good in one area....

….can improve a team just as surely as an upgrade from bad to average in another.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Feb 2, 2012 8:49 AM CST reply actions  

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