ALL THE QB TALK
by jcox31mc on Jan 29, 2012 4:49 PM CST
Email
Print
With all of the QB talk I find it interesting that we as Chief’s fans vary all the way from “mortgage the whole draft” to get RGIII to “let’s just stick with Cassel.” In most of the polls taken, those that want to stick with Cassel, depending on how the question is asked, seems to range from the high teens to the low thirty’s per cent-wise.
Obviously, it is very difficult to find an elite QB and rating the existing QB’s would probably vary all over the place. There seem to be four that most agree, are elite: Manning (if healthy), Brees, Brady and Rogers. IMO, I also list four that are on the next level, they are Roethlisberger, Rivers, Eli Manning and Stafford. And my third level, this part is much more difficult, I list: Smith, Newton, Schaub, Cutler, Flacco, Ryan, Romo, Hasselbeck, Palmer, Fitzpatrick, Vick and Bradford.
I know this leaves a lot of room for discussion but this is just one persons opinion and really is not the point. The point is that I’ve listed about twenty QB’s who with the right team, could probably, with a little luck, get their teams to a Super Bowl. In addition, QB’s that might have the potential to get here in the next few years for me would include guys like RGIII, Luck, Flynn and maybe even a Freeman or Orton. That means that probably at least seven teams, maybe even a dozen, might not even have a chance because they just do not have a QB that can get them there.
I guess that most agree that QB is the most important position on a football team so my point is and I take the position that, any team should go all out to get a franchise QB, not elite, but franchise. In fact, I tried to look up what an elite and a franchise QB are, and really could not find any definite definitions. Everyone has a little different opinion, just like which QB’s fit where.
To get a top quality QB in the NFL, teams have to be willing to take chances and I believe that the chances are that Luck, Flynn and RGIII are very likely to move up into those upper tiers as fast as anyone. But, it’s a gamble.
Here’s a little side story: How many know that at one time, our own Lenny Dawson was on the roster of the Pittsburg Steeler’s with Jack Kemp, Earl Morrall and Bobby Lane, all successful QB’s. He spent 5 years in the NFL and did not become a starter.
Here’s a short part of Lenny’s story: Despite his status as a first round draft pick, Dawson was unable to make an impact with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Following his rookie campaign, his status in the Steel City became even more tenuous when the Steelers acquired future Hall of Famer Bobby Layne. Failing to dislodge the colorful signal caller, Dawson was then traded to the Cleveland Browns on December 31, 1959.
After encountering similar problems in battling Browns' quarterback Milt Plum, Dawson was released, having completed only 21 passes for 204 yards and two touchdowns in his five seasons of NFL play. However, he soon found his calling when he signed with the American Football League's Dallas Texans on June 30, 1962. The move reunited him with Stram, who was beginning his third year as the Texans' head coach.
In that first season, 1962, Dawson led the league in touchdowns and yards per attempt, and was The Sporting News' selection as the AFL MVP, and was selected by his peers as a Sporting News 1966 AFL All-League player. He also led them that year to the first of three league titles in a thrilling double-overtime victory over the two-time defending champion Houston Oilers. Dawson ran a ball-control offense in the 20-17 win, and tossed a 28-yard touchdown pass to halfback Abner Haynes. Then the team moved to Kansas City and were renamed The Chiefs in 1963.
Here’s the whole history for anyone that wants to read it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Len_Dawson
Anyway, I’m on the side that says we have to take a chance. Sure, it needs to be educated and well thought out but if we don’t get an upper tier QB our chances of even reaching a Super Bowl are practically nil.
T
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
120 comments
|
7 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
RecRec
I’m [also] on the side that says we have to take a chance.
9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur
Where would Len Dawson be as a QB in todays game?
or Bradshaw, Montana, even Aiken would have a difficult time with the new rules. Passing all the time vs a well rounded NFL squad with a running game and a Defense.
It is tough to know what it requires until a Super Bowl win or two happens.
Hence all the QB talk
Thanks guys for the Recs. That's a good question. I'm such a believer in Montana that I
think he could of been even better but he did have an awesome team around him then. I guess we’ll never know.
I think Montana would have excelled today.
Accuracy and decision making are the most important things, more nowadays than before. Besides, Montana had several great teams…. His skill players and linemen changed a few times throughout his career, and he still succeded, both pre-Rice and post-Rice.
I think Bradshaw was probably the last game manager type QB we’ll ever see win multiple Superbowls.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
take a chance...
Klinger, Drunkenmiller, Shuler, Leaf, Smith, Mcnown, Mirer, Dilfer, Couch, Culpepper,Mcgwire,Russel….Any way you go you’re taking a chance. I’d be ok with the right trade for the right qb, but I’m against giving up a bunch of picks for one of the “big boys” . Especially when the o-line needs up-graded. Don’t be a Raider…is all I’m sayin’
It's tough because it's two different issues. Are we willing to trade up if there's a guy that we like? And, is RG3 actually a guy that we like that much?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
The question...
Will someone get stupid? Someone always does, and I’m betting Pioli ain’t that guy. How much better will RG3 be vs. the guys taken later, or 4-5 guys next year? How much better will Cassel…sigh…be now that Haley is gone? Fix the o-line, hand the ball to JC, and this may not be an issue next season.
I don't believe in "fixing" the O line.
Don’t think it’s a long term solution, it’ll always be a work in progress. Commented about it below.
I also don’t believe in any QBs this year after Luck and RG3. I’m big on QB brains. The only ones I really like this year for their brains are Luck, RG3, Weeden, and Moore. I don’t think Weeden can unlearn the spread and learn the NFL in time to be a ten-year franchise guy, and Moore doesn’t have it physically. I might take a fifth round flyer on Cousins or Coleman if they’re there.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Just a gut feeling ...
But I would almost bet Pioli is drooling over Cousins.
Mich. St: Check
Pro Style Offense: Check
Run heavy, short passing game to TE’s and possession WR’s: Check
Intangibles: seems smart; accurate enough; flat-footed pure pocket passer; I think he spreads the ball around well to multiple receivers?; And I think he’s relatively calm in the pocket? Don’t know much about Cousins – as I didn’t watch him.
Biggest knock: Lack of size. The Pat’s system loves BIG QB’s.
But I think you know all this and probably more about Cousins and the Pat’s Way.
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Jan 30, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
I watched Foles about 3 or 4 games, or parts thereof.
One sentence: Big armed version of Matty Nice, but with much less mobility; so yeah, Pioli probably like him, too. lol ;=)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Jan 30, 2012 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Pretty much agree with all that.
I really didn’t see too much of either one, though. Cousins does have a reputation for staying calm, having good pocket presence, being a leader, etc etc. I’d put him on about the same level as Stanzi right now.
I liked Foles in the the few games of his that I actually saw, but I’ve been told by Pac-10 experts that he’s not all that.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I agree...
the team is always a WIP ( one reason I’m not high on giving up a bunch of picks), and I don’t see anyone standing out above Stanzi after the “2”. I do think Weeden might make something. I just wonder how low he will fall.
Times they have a changed
Barring an extremely lucky injury event like Brees being let go from San Diego, your highest level of play from free agency is likely Matt Schaub, arguably a top 10-12 QB, but not without his flaws.
The “journeyman” QB turning into a franchise QB just doesn’t really happen anymore. It is either high draft pick or bust, imo.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 29, 2012 5:48 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm really intrigued with Flynn and I like that it probably would not effect our draft
choices. I like his record, though short, at LSU and being the MVP in the BCS game. That shows leadership. If he could be signed, then get Decasto for UPS, a good FA NT and a few other draft choices, could make this team really something. It would be a risk but Flynn has a they say, the pedigree.
Orton is just as at home in your third tier list as the rest of those guys.
Brees, Rogers, Roethlisberger, Rivers, and Stafford are all sitting at home next week. And really, no one can predict what Tebow will become. This stuff will never be reduced to a science; humans are way too unpredictable.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
Agree. It would be interesting to see what everyones odds are on RGIII, Luck and Flynn. I did
not see Newton play before the NFL except for a short time in one game and I really was not impressed but he sure has done well as a rookie on a weaker team with a rookie NFL coach. So you really can’t tell but why weren’t more teams really after Brees when he left SD. Everyone wants a “sure” thing but that’s why it’s a “risk”.
Brees was a huge risk because of his injury.
ESPN did a segment on that. They said that nobody had ever come back from that injury full strength before, and there was some experimental rehab done with Brees. It wasn’t just a dislocated shoulder, he dislocated it out the bottom of the socket.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Stanzi will tear it up in 2013.
Winner: 2013 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
Interesting. Steve asked the question as to how Dawson would do in today's NFL.
Pretty hard to guess but what if the AFL and NFL had not joined in the Super Bowl. KC loss the first SB and most still never thought that the AFL could match up with the old NFL, but then the Jet’s under Namath beat the Colt’s in SB III and then Dawson lead the Chief’s to victory in SB IV, and was MVP. A guy that could not make it in the old NFL for 5 years finally ended up King of the Hill, MVP in SB IV. Pretty neat.
great post
I agree by all means I believe we need to do whatever it takes to get RG3 I think its too high of a price to go after luck so there for RG3 I’d say it will take this year’s 1st rounder and next year’s and a 3rd rounder for this year and maybe a 2nd rounder this year or next year. what do you guys think it would take I don’t want to trade anyone away other then dorsey or cassel or b-rich
by kcchiefs2782 on Jan 29, 2012 9:12 PM CST via Android app reply actions
I think it is a bad idea to give up the picks for RG3
We need to solidify our O and D lines in the Draft and possibly get a solid RB. FA has some good QBs and can really solidify our depth.
We are so close and I think we can do it, with someone like Flynn or Manning, or even Orton.
I agree with taking chances, but with one caveat.
There’s a big difference between taking smart risks and dumb risks. I think signing Manning (if available) is a smart risk. I think, failing that, starting Stanzi over Cassel is a smart risk. However, trading all of your draft picks for one player is not a smart risk. If we trade up for RG3 we better have a good deal.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 29, 2012 10:28 PM CST reply actions
Signing Manning for 5 Million a year
Maybe Smart
with some contractual language on snaps played
else a big huge DUMB as SHIT move
Starting Stanzi? What the hell Wustl did you take the Blue pill or what?
finally Agree we have no idea if RGIII is the one and we have like 5 QB’s to choose from in 2013.
that is the smart play for those not all in in 2012
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 29, 2012 11:10 PM CST up reply actions
Manning at $5 Mil? THE Manning? Peyton Manning? THAT Manning?
assuming he doesn’t retire, he’ll command 2-3x that and get it easily, minimum 3 yr deal
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
No way Peyton Manning gets paid less than Matt Cassel.
I would say he will go for a LEAST 15 million per year at no less than 3 years.
by DivineGrace on Jan 29, 2012 11:41 PM CST up reply actions
Depends. If I were a QB with his retirement guaranteed, already, the BEST quality of life, assuming I wanted to play,
would be to play for very LITTLE money, and have a little say on how to build the team around me. For what Manning has demanded commanded in the past, he could make a play for Nicks, Grubbs, Kalil, Myers, Bell, Decastro, maybe even all at the same time.
That’s the one thing about QBs in the league. It’s like handicap horse racing. The more they succeed, the more weight they try to carry, just to get more money than any sensible, centered adult human being NEEDS. Everybody remembers Elway restructuring his deal to steal Neil Smith from us, but even THERE, he just postponed the paycheck, even though he was set for life, and the only thing he was playing for (supposedly) was the Lombardi, when a guy like me, in the same position, would demand a hefty $1 to play, with say on personnel, at least to the extent of the KINDS of guys to go all-out for..
would of ≠ would've
Like Favre coming out of retirement, for the chance at a ring, when the $$$$ he demanded put the lie to it.
would of ≠ would've
Ya know, I'd like to think that I'd do it that way myself,
but in reality I can’t remember any human acting that way under those circumstances. I’m sure there have been, but it’s obviously much tougher to take the high road when you’re actually standing at the crossroads than we’d like to think.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Not really. It just reveals our priorities.
Fact is, most of us take the less stressful path, and are content with a simple life. Most of us who are famous, for whatever, aren’t content. More is more.
To me it’s just a matter of sensible priorities. If I could play QB and I was set for life, the ultimate would be to have the best guys around me I could get. Win a few championships, and if I need money, I’ll take a few speech classes and beat the bushes for endorsement deals.
would of ≠ would've
The reasoning behind starting Stanzi is pretty straightforward.
It is usually a good idea to take risks at the QB position. If you have the choice between an average starter and a young guy with lots of potential, you should usually go with the guy with potential. In order to win a Super Bowl with Cassel, everything else has to go almost perfectly. But Stanzi has a chance of being a good enough QB where we don’t have to win the Super Bowl despite him. And if he fails, we are still better off because we will then know that we need to invest in a new QBOTF, which we would not realize if we started Cassel.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 29, 2012 11:51 PM CST up reply actions
But the coaches see all the QBs in practice.
You’re talking about doing a Tebow move, where you start somebody despite what they show in practice.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Brady was very much on the bubble his rookie year. He didn't learn, 'til year 2, how to look off Rodney Harrison in practice.
Harrison said so, himself. Coaches saw a lot of good in him, some bad, but mainly that he wasn’t ready to play, as a rookie. Good enough to bring in off the PS, but not good enough, YET, to actually play. Victor Cruz, a WR, was put on the 53 as an UDFA (pronounced UDD-fuh). The Gi’nts are glad they protected him from poachers, even though he wasn’t ready to start, right away.
So the deal with Stanzi is like that, most likely. Coaching thinks he’s good enough to protect from poachers, but he’s not ready to play. Until a guy like that IS ready to play, you never know if he EVER will.
So it may not have made good sense to hurry Stanzi into action. But just because I advocate for thoughtful FA pursuit, with a concentration on team build doesn’t mean I’m sanguine about Cassel, long-term. I see plenty I don’t like, but until I see a better all-around team, the all-around team-build (trenches) is where I’m concentrating my resources. Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t be willing to out-bid somebody for a miracle FA, such as Brees. But it does mean that I wouldn’t be willing to trade up in the draft for a QB, at this juncture.
Now, if Pioli hadn’t used half-measures up front, right along, I’d feel a lot more urgency @ QB. But we’ve gone from Sackintosh to Ndukwe to O’Callaghan to Richardson at RT over the course of 3 seasons. Hudson and Asamoah were probably good picks, but there were two such picks too few in 3 years.
would of ≠ would've
Well, ok, but Harrison's second year in NE was actually Brady's fifth year (2004),
and his fourth year as a starter. Maybe you’re thinking of Milloy?
It really sounds like you’d prioritize a RT over a QB in the draft…..
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Hmmm. If the chronology's off that much, maybe it was just Rodney I remember as NE DB on NFLN.
Thought sure it was he who said that. But the dates don’t mesh, do they?
would of ≠ would've
Como estas, Senoir Stevie. Who in the hell are these QB's in 2013???
and we have like 5 QB’s to choose from in 2013.
Just say we’re picking around 20ish or a bit later next year:
1) Matt Barkley: Barring injury … or just a poor year for whatever reason(s) … he’s NUMERO UNO in the 2013 draft period! So he’ll be WAY, muy WAY out of our reach!
2) Tyler Wilson: He’s my fave after Barkley. He’s tough as hell, and purty cool, calm and collected in the pocket; in my not so humble opinion, these are attributes either a guy is born with, or not – and they can’t be “coached up.” But he still needs to work on a lot of things next season. But if he has a good season, he’ll go higher than Jones; so he’ll be way beyond our reach.
3) Landry Jones: He’s spread QB for one, and Pioli despises those. And if he has a good year, he’ll go higher than where we’ll be.
4) Aaron Murray: He might declare early if he has a big year. In fact, I think its probable he does if so. But I think QB needy teams will reach on him earlier than the 20ish pick if he does impress that much next season. However, I think he could be the type of QB Pioli would be interested in.
5) Maybe some dude like Ryan Nassib impresses next year, and goes in the 2nd? Maybe E.J. Manuel has a big year and could go in the late 1st to early 2nd? Sean Renfree? … he should be smart than Dubya Bush!
Just forget it dude. Matty Nice it is for 2012 … and then hippie hatin Icky Ricky Stanzi up next for 2013. Book’em, Dano!
Tener una buena noche, Hombre! :+)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Jan 30, 2012 3:25 PM CST up reply actions
ha! blogging Loco Style ... ole!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Finish the O-Line before we do ANYTHING with the QB.
That means…
…get a 2nd guard.
…get a RT.
…get a 2nd TE (who can block AND Catch).
Until all 3 in place and working well with each other (time to gel) let Cassel start. Why…
…he IS better than Orton (I don’t care what your eyes tell you Cassel is better in every way including the most important stat….WIN %)
…he has more time with ‘our’ guys.
…and this is the most important reason…..HE IS UNDER CONTRACT ALREADY.
Why spend money to bring in Cassel 2.0 (the ’’ is because he is slightly WORSE than Cassel), when we already have a Cassel on the roster?
I would also like to note that Orton’s best season ever….was his rookie year, its been all down hill since for him.
TL:DR -
Let Orton walk, finish the O-Line (G / RT / TE), draft another ‘developmental’ guy in 2012 draft (in or after the 5th round), start Cassel until the new line has time to ‘gel’, let Stanzi take over once line is in place….BOOM – QB problem solved for the next 10 years.
agree on your first few lines, disagree an the great Cassel v Orton debate :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
My biggest knock on Orton is not the way he plays.
Its that we would have to sign him (likely to a long/longer) to a contract. If the roles were reversed (Orton under contact and Cassel NOT) then I would say keep Orton.
However, Orton is NOT under contract and THAT more than anything else is why I say let Orton walk. (IMO neither Cassel OR Orton will be the Chiefs QBOTF).
by DivineGrace on Jan 29, 2012 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
ok, I get that
not sure Cassel’s contract is guaranteed though … that’s something for someone more in the know (Steve usually has that stuff in some database)
plus I could see trading Cassel (if Orton signs) or if Orton signs for a low enough figure just keep both of them (depending on just how much the total is) … dollar for dollar though, Orton’s a better QB in my book … has to be some way to unload Cassel’s contract if we did sign Orton (one would think)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
IF Orton is an upgrade (and IMO that is a big if) over Cassel...
…is it big enough upgrade to make him ‘our guy’ for the next 5 years (give him a long term contract)? Is Orton really good enough to sign to a 5 year deal in your opinon? If he is not…why bother?
by DivineGrace on Jan 29, 2012 11:44 PM CST up reply actions
my opinion? absolutely worth going with for the next 5 years ...
BUT … still need that Oline finished, need that regardless … but hell yeah I’d hand him the keys for the next 5 years and develop Stanzi or whoever else they find for “the future”
with Orton “the future” is now … finish that damned OLine, give Orton the keys and you have AFC West division locked up for awhile … 10+ W’s easy (and I’m the biggest “realist” and most cautionary fan on all of AP)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Could it be possible that the reason Orton 'looked' better than Cassel 'might' have something to do with the O-Line getting it figured out latter in the season.
Now I am not say this is the case, but I would submitt that had Cassel played in those 3 games…he would have put up more points vs. Green Bay & Denver and would have stright up BEAT Oakland.
Two reasons…
…the O-Line was playing better at the end of the season than at the beginning (you don’t have to be an NFL head coach to see this is true)
…our D was not letting the other teams hang 40 on them. (Hard to win any game that you let the other team score more than 30 points).
by DivineGrace on Jan 30, 2012 12:10 AM CST up reply actions
OLine improvement is a possibility ... also a possibbility the team simply played better under Crennel
but remember that right after the Green bay game the players were gushing about Orton … it was positively a lovefest, plus the endorsement at the end of the year from Crennel himself
no question it’s always easier when the D isn’t getting racked, but then too, part of that was a stalled out offense, and a major part of that was QB incompetence … Cassel was dead in the water the first 3 or 4 games til he flipped it on in the second half of the Indy game (and if I recall that was also the game that Crennel lit into the defense at halftime, but I could be wrong on that)
on RARE occasion Cassel gets it together, but even going back to last year, he had issues even against some of the weaker teams … not to say that Orton’s a Manning or Brees or Rodgers, but he’s just so much smoother, more self-assured … hell, he’s the type who could draw a play in the dirt and make it work
first few games I remember everyone calling for Muir’s head when Cassel was tossing the short screens that got stuffed, but I guarantee you Muir isn’t stupid enough to call for a 3 yard dump in traffic when you need 3 yards … that was Cassel looking like a lost child, over and over again
and as good as he looked for the last few games, remember that he DIDN’T have all the time with the team that Cassel has had … give him a full off-season and summer, finish the OLine, get Charles and Moeaki healthy … add a few bits and pieces to defense and Orton can be very successful along with the team
he’s had crappy teams and very little talent around him in his career, this is the perfect spot for him to make good things happen
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Sorry, but I do not agree.
Jay Cutler seems to be doing ok with what Orton had in Chicago, and unless I am mistaken B. Mashall is a pretty good WR, T. Scheffler is a pretty good TE, B. Lloyd isn’t exactly cannon fodder, E. Royal seem to do alright, and J. Gaffney had 68 catches for 947 yards and 5 TDs this year for the Redskins.
That crew is WAY better then anything Cassel had before the start of this season…what did Orton do with all that talent? 8-8, 4-12, 1-4 come on now….how is that better then Cassel (4-12, 10-6, 4-4).
Tim Tebow is a better QB that Orton….what did they get some new WR’s for Tebow??? Nope they traded Lloyed, and Tebow did more with LESS talent.
Sorry, no way in Hell I sign Orton to a 1 year deal…let alone a 5 year deal.
Tebow better than Orton?! Now I kno you've lost it.
You want to look at stats, Orton has a better QBR. You want to get hung up on win/loss, Orton beat Tebow head to head.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Tebow has more endorsements ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
In that case, Tebow > God.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
only until Tiger makes his "comeback"
yanno, I’d happily wear just about anything for the money these guys make … a few to several million to wear some brand of clothes … plus the free clothes
yeah, I could do that
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The key to getting that kind of job seems to be
to fail in a spectacular manner.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
well, there ya go ... I am worthy and more than capable of failure ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Why use Cutler as an example, when the dude couldn't finish the season, due to
all the hits culminating in the bad one that got him. QB heroics are no substitute for championship line play, although you can get yer QB and roll the dice, and hope Big Ben doesn’t get hurt, or Aaron can pull a miracle out of his ass. It happens, from time to time.
Orton-vs-Cassel: Orton’s anticipation of D tendencies is off the charts, but if they break tendencies, he’s likely to throw the pick or sack-fumble. He’s not nearly as mobile as Cassel, and is much more prone to injury. Hard to say what Cassel might’ve shown in terms of anticipation without Haley being present. But he’s almost certainly not as sharp as Orton in that category, his pocket awareness seems weaker, and he’s not very accurate when he has a guy get behind the D.
Either one would look better next season for the Chiefs, if they addressed O-Line aggressively, with player(s) who’d start right away. Get that done and then let’s talk about chasin’ QB.
would of ≠ would've
It was a question (hince the ??? at the end) and not a statement.
I was saying that Time Tebow won more games with less personell (Lloyd was traded to St. Louis) than Orton. This is easy to confirm.
Did Denver think Tebow was good enough to let Orton go? Yes.
Did Denver go the the Playoffs while our Orton lead Chiefs where watching the game from home? Yes.
How bad is Orton? Bad enough that the Donkeys let him go in favor of Tim Tebow.
This is the guy you want to sing to a 5 year deal….I hope we let him walk.
You ended that statement with a .... not a ???
The ??? ended your rhetorical question about getting new receivers for Tebow. And actually, Tebow did sort of get a new receiver because Thomas wasn’t in when Orton was in.
Weird that I have to clarify your own comment for you.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
.... is a continuation. Period (.) is the end of a sentance.
I like where you mind is at….but your wrong.
^^^Is not two sentances, it’s one.^^^
(see what I did there)
I'm really not familiar with either one.
I know Thomas has better raw physical numbers, makes a bigger target for Tebow. On the other hand, a vet WR could undoubtedly help a new QB. One thing I do know is that Decker caught just as many passes in Orton’s five games as he did in Tebow’s eleven….
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Do I want to get hung up on win/loss?
win/loss is the ONLY stat that matters.
Team A won Time of Posssion.
Team A won the Turnover battle.
Team A had more yards.
Team A allowed fewer yards.
Team A had more punt/kick return yards
Team A’s QB had a better QBR (Cassel has a slight edge in lifetime QBR too by the way)
Team B won the game, and is in the playoff, while Team A is a home watching the game.
What team do YOU want the Chiefs to be?
OK then, Orton beat Tebow head to head.
So in the all-important win/loss stat, Orton is ahead one to nothing :)
The problem with using wins/losses to judge a player is that there’s just too many variables and not enough consistent samples to make it a significant stat. It’s like using only TDs to judge which RB is better than another. If you go by wins/losses, Dilfer is a better Superbowl QB than Marino.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Dilfer is a better Superbowl QB than Marino.
Ask Marino if he thinks it’s…
…better to be the top end of lifetime stats for many different categories.
- OR -
…better to be the QB who won the Super Bowl.
How about Jim Kelley…wonder what his take on the whole…is it better to be one of the greatest postseason QB, or the QB that won one, just one Super Bowl.
I guess we have different definitions of "better."
I more think about it in future tense. As in, which QB would I rather have on my team to give me a chance to win. Or, which one clearly has more skill and ability.
Maybe look at in in terms of the college game. Who’s the better QB, Andrew Luck or whoever that was that won the championship game? And which one would you rather have playing for the Chiefs?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
If I had to rank the QB from 2011 & 2012 I would do it like this
1) Luck
2) Stanzi
3) Newton
4) Dalton
5) RGIII
6+) Doesn’t really matter.
But last year,
that 6+ territory is where your boy Stanzi came from :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
So did the QB that he comairs the most to.
Maybe you heard of him….Tom Brady. That guy was a 6th round pick, so he had to suck so maybe you haven’t heard of him.
@DivineGrace
Tim Tebow is a better QB that Orton
Discredits your evaluation of talent and opinion.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 30, 2012 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
actually Orton had less to work with as Tebow had a defense holding opponents to 13 ppg but for most of Ortons time there the broncos gave up 29 ppg .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 1:04 AM CST up reply actions
By that logic...The games Cassel lost the Defense was giving up 30+ (sometimes 40+) points per game.
While the Defense when Orton was behind center wasn’t even letting the other team score 20.
So Orton > Tebow…even though Orton was 1-4 and Tewbow was 7-4 because the Defense played better for Tebow.
AND Orton > Cassel…even though the Chiefs D was giving up WAY more points per game.
The logic is 100% sound…no ‘flaws’ there. /rollseyes
lol are you serious what is jay Cutler doing exactly ? I dont know how anyone can say that wit ha straight face
Marshall had his best season under Orton catching double digit TD passes has not done it before or after
Lloyd never ever came close to what he did with Orton prior to last year now he aint chopped liver ? well where was he before last year ?
They traded Lloyd because thomas was coming back from injury but they also traded Gaffney who0 had a career year with Orton throwing to him.
Again the actual FACTS dont support anything you are saying
Orton with all that talent had the worst defense in the league
Again the facts dont support your claims …its not even close
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 12:48 AM CST up reply actions
Orton is not a QBOTF...PERIOD.
He is not under contaract.
He is NOT going to be a Chief in 2012.
Right, Wrong, Dems da Bricks.
if your biggest argument about Orton is that he's not under contract ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ha! It was the same O line, man.
Look at the 2007-09 Pats. Those three years, the Pats had the same five starting O linemen, but Cassel was in for Brady in ’08. And, the O line gave up more sacks in ’08 than in ’07 and ’09 combined. Am I supposed to believe that the exact same starting five O linemen played well in ’07, then sucked in ’08, and then became good again in ’09?
I’m not really comparing Cassel to Brady here, I’m just showing what a difference in sacks a QB can make.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
DG, the great majority of the guys here on AP just do not agree with you. We've all watched
Cassel and Orton and it’s about 80-20 that feel that right now, Orton would be the best starter for this team.
There's no "finishing" an O line.
If that could be done, there wouldn’t be any need for GMs! At best, you can assemble an O line that will give you maybe three years of great play before pieces go away via retirement and/or free agency. Find a QB, and you’re set for ten years. Lookit:
RT – No idea if whoever replaces Richardson will work out.
RG – I like Asamoah, but he’s been inconsistent. Erasing Suh one game, then losing to a no-name the next.
C – We don’t really know if Hudson will work out.
LG – Don’t know if Lilja goes back to his 2010 form, and no idea if a replacement will work out.
LT – Albert isn’t that far away from free agency.
We are NOT close to having a “finished” O line. And we never will be! That’s just the normal state of the NFL. Things are too fluid to count on having a stable, great group of five players.
Even with our 2003 team, we knew that line was getting old. Even back then, we didn’t have the luxury of trading away picks risk-free that could have been used on O line.
If you’re determined to build and maintain a great O line without taking a risk in the draft, then you’re left with two choices for obtaining a great QB – hope that you strike a Brady, which has only happened once in my lifetime; or, hope (if that’s the word) that you suck enough one year to get a top five draft pick, like the Giants did when they got Eli.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
by Brsrkr on Jan 30, 2012 9:10 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We draft a G / RT and maybe a new TE and this line will be 'finished' at least for a few years.
RT – DeCastro in the 1st and best T available in 2nd.
RG – Asamoah played very well and seem to be getting better each game.
C – Hudson will be fine (he can also play both G positions)
LG – Lilja ??? This is why I would LOVE to see DeCastro as our #1 round pick.
LT – Albert will be back.
We are VERY close to having a ‘finished’ O-Line (one draft way…and that is picking up 0 FA’s).
As far as obtaining a great QB….we have one already on the roster, his name is Ricki Stanzi. The quicker the line gets done, the quicker you will see just how good old tricky Ricki will be.
psssssssssst
yeah, DeCastro is OG … I see you got it there, and I like that … add Antonio Allen in the 3rd and we’re looking pretty good
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
If we did get DeCastro, I think one benefit would be that he could maybe be an emergency RT.
Except for the fact that the few times I’ve seen him play, the one situation where I noticed he struggles is with fast blitzers.
I like what I’ve heard about Allen. Looks like he’s moving from a projected 3rd rounder to a 2-3 rounder.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
must be from all the talk on AP today, pushing his stock up ... yeah, we're just that powerful
he’s moving from a projected 3rd rounder to a 2-3 rounder
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
We carry SBN, dude.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
the stats are a-MAZE-ing
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
A few years, until Albert reaches free agency (2013). So actually, one year.
For tackle, it’s looking like there won’t be much drop off this year after the top four or so are gone until the end of the third. Plus, Martin and Sanders are pretty clearly cut out for the LT spot and might not give us as well-rounded of a RT as we’d like. I like Massie, Mosley, and Datko about as much as any tackle we’d likely get at the tail end of the first.
Guard, after DeCastro, there are several that would probably still be pretty darn good. Glenn, Konz, Zeitler. If we go O line, in this draft I’d like to go interior first and then tackle.
For somebody who advocates the “conservative” approach of building the O line, you are taking an awful lot on faith ….You say “Albert will be back” like you KNOW that to be true. Not even Albert knows that right now! I like Asamoah and Hudson both, but there aren’t any guarantees in the NFL. As for anointing Stanzi “great” before he even takes an NFL snap….well, I’ll just assume you’re joking. I hope he’s good, but it’s pretty foolish to count on that.
Uncertainty – what would you say the chances of success of a top-five QB are in today’s NFL? Maybe 20-25%?
Lets say the chances of success for a highly drafted O lineman are 75%. I think that’s pretty generous. But now if you apply that across five O linemen, the uncertainty goes to 75% ^ 5, or 23.7%. Building a “complete” O line is a lot riskier prospect than a lot of people think…..
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
but NOT building one is even riskier still
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Just as risky as not searching for a QB :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
The only person that rated higher then Stanzi in last years draft (or this years) was A. Luck.
deb, deb, deb, that’s all folks. Luck has a better chance than Stanzi, and Stanzi at least ‘on paper’ is better then everyone else. Let that sink in for a moment.
I agree that neither is a ‘sure thing’ I dont care WHAT they say about Luck. RGIII could be better then either of em. I for one want to finish the line before we put anyone but Cassel / Orton (It don’t matter which cuz neither is the long term solution to the QB equation).
I know we got burned by Manning when we had that ‘best in the leauge’ O-Line…but lets face it, our D was bad. No, not just bad…gowd awful. Put THAT line with THIS D and we will go 19-0 with Palko or even Brokie as the QB (as long as Charles, Moeaki, and Berry stay healthy).
Wha? Where are you getting that Stanzi was second only to Luck? Seven QBs were drafted before him, and some of those were pretty bad.
Is this just your own personal rating?
About the “finished” O line thing, try this: count the number of O lines currently in the NFL that you consider “finished,” and compare that with the number of current QBs that can carry their team.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
There is this guy by the name of Mel Kiper...maybe you heard of him? He had this to stay about Stanzi
Mel said “”http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=244648" target="new">Ricky Stanzi will be the QB for the Chiefs in 2 – 3 years and will have the best NFL career." when asked which QB will have the best career.
There is also a website called fantasyfootballmetrics.com…
“”http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/2011/NFL%20Draft/Draft_2011_Stanzi%20Wonderlic%20_3-11-11%20%202.0.htm" target="new">Ricky Stanzi Passes the Critical Wonderlic Test, and is Officially Confirmed as our #1 Rated QB for the 2011 NFL Draft"
Now Mel Kiper isn’t a ‘great’ (or even good source) IMO. I don’t care how long he has been grading drafts. while the fantasyfootballmetrics.com website had every interesting things to say about all the 2011 QBs that ‘at the time they were written’ where kind of unpopular…
…Andy Dalton was going to be good.
…Gabbert wasn’t
…Cam was going to be a really good ‘passer’ and not just a spread / run first QB.
Or to put it another way…the website is 100% spot on with everthing else they said about ALL the 2011 QB taken in the draft, so maybe, just maybe there might be something to how they break down the QB posistion.
wonder what Kiper said about Ryan leaf ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I obviously hope that Stanzi turns out to be a good QB,
and I think he’s got potential. But as things stand right now, 32 actual professional NFL GMs and their scouting staffs think he was the eighth most promising QB in that draft. Maybe it had something to do with his total lack of an Adam’s apple.
I would think that you’d put more weight on real-world happenings rather than fantasy analytics, considering the rather outlandish standards you use to determine which past NFL quarterbacks were “better…..”
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
313 actual professional NFL GMs passed 5 (sometimes 6) times on Tom Brady (player that Stanzi is most like).
Tell me, how did that work out for those 31 GMs?
I don't think that we would have to make a five year contract, but I guess we just wait to
see if they even give Orton a look. I was having trouble writing a fanpost but what I wanted to say is if we knew right now that RGIII was going to be, next year, as good or better that Cam Newton, what would you be willing to give? How many picks?
Ups, I might need to talk to someone about how to do a fanpost.
drop me a line if you want any help, advice, whatever ... anything I can do to help, you gots it
that’s why we’re here … as they’d say on the old Twilight Zone series: To Serve Man
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
NICE edit work!
well done, well done :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Cox, I agree with about everything except for your age profiling.
I think this discussion crosses all age/gender/social boundaries. Actually, I think that’s the best thing about AP!
If I was going to profile, though, I might guess that a few of the folks who want to stick with Cassel came into football fandom in the early ‘90s, around the time those dominant O lines for the Redskins and Cowboys were running over everybody. That’s about the time when there was a shift in popular wisdom from depending on a RB to make your run game, to recognizing that the O line has a lot to do with it. But, I started getting into the NFL not too long before that, so I don’t believe that profile applies across the board.
The funny thing to me is that a bunch of people who want to build a dominant O line actually think that’s the more conservative path! It’s a much bigger gamble trying to gather and keep five great lineman, or any five positions for that matter, than to try to fix just one position.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Very good point and I agree. The line, for example the GB game, can look pretty
good and a lot of that is on the QB. If the QB is just marginally better, the line does not have to hold their blocks as long, the receivers get the ball with a chance to run for extra yards, etc. Get the QB and build around him, especially since we already have a good team. I might feel a little different if the entire line was terrible but that’s not the case. One or two changes will raise this line, along with a better QB, to a point where they will be very good and more.
Heh, GB's line has been terrible.
They’ve just gotten around to trying to shore it up the past couple years. But it was still terrible this year because of injuries. Didn’t stop them from going 15-1, or Rodgers setting a QBR record. Finally caught up to them against the Giants, who might have the best defensive line in the league.
In 2009, Rodgers took 50 sacks….FIFTY! Still posted a 103 QBR.
GB is the shining example of an offense succeeding despite a very bad O line situation.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
well
I’ll tell you right now with our line as is RG3 doesn’t get sacked 50 time’s and puts up over 100.00 QB rating I think he is better then luck IMO but that’s just me I kinda wouldn’t mind testing out stanzi over starting cassel or Kyle just to see what we have in him if he blows get rid of him and draft a QB next year 2013 but if we pass on RG3 we better trade up and go after barkley cuz we need our QB of the future within these next 2 years if we want to do something with all this young talent that we have on this team!
by kcchiefs2782 on Jan 30, 2012 11:40 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
Totally agree with you.
I like DeCastro if we stay at 11/12 but… None of this will matter without a stud qb behind him.. As chiefs fans, how can we believe that improving the oline will get us a superbowl, when we had arguably the best oline in history and didnt win 1 playoff game. I heard of defense wins championships,ive heard elite qbs win championships, but ive never heard of an elite oline winning championships! IMO anything other than drafting rg3 is a failure,and I will look foward to talking shit about how ortons int blew the game,are how cassel had 9 seconds to throw to a man wide open 50 yards down the feild, but instead threw it out of bounds because of his noodle arm.
GIVE JAMAAL THE DAMN BALL!!!!!
by chief913-816 on Jan 30, 2012 11:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yep because letting our QBOTF get killed because we used two 1st's, a couple of 2nd's, and traded players is just brilliant.
Chicken or the egg? QB or Line?
If Manning’s line wasn’t poop, would he still be playing right now? I think the answer is yes. How about old Brokie Croyle, think he might have lasted just a ‘bit’ longer if he had anyting that resemlbed a competant O-Line? Do you REALLY want another “Brokie” QB?
chief913-816
I agree with you totally and I only wish these so called chief fans could only do the same we can only hope we do the right thing with drafting IMO RG3 this year if we don’t we must draft barkley next year if we want to build for 1 more year through this years draft if we don’t get a QB I’m sorry we will be watching all this talent go down the drain led by cassel’s noodle arm!
by kcchiefs2782 on Jan 31, 2012 11:38 AM CST via Android app up reply actions
other fans aren't fans unless they always agree with you?
these so called chief fans
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
so essentially you are all about wasting time and sabotaging Romeo
Rome is on a 3 year deal you’d waste the prime years of some of our best players testing out unproven Qbs ?
Under your plan we take a QB next year and and now Romeo is heading into a contract year being judged on a rookie Qbs season ?
Now if we fire Romeo weve now got to find a coach and then lock him into a unproven QB of the previous coaches doing ?
This makes no sense and basically guarantees us another decade of suckage .
The QBOTF is whoever we believe can take us the farthest over the next 3-5 seasons because thats the window we basically have with our defense and JC at this point .
Those guys dont magically stay in a anti aging bubble while we play around with Qbs like Stanzi and whoever else we decide to TEST OUT.
I would love to see us go in a momentum building move and moving Matt and bringing back Orton would be a great start as it takes the swagger and momentum of last year and carries it over right into the offseason . Now you you bring back the other key free agents and look for a impact player or two in the draft to and away we go.
by Willie Beamon on Feb 1, 2012 12:59 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think Romeo gets fired, I think he retires first.
But it would be really nice to send him out on a winning note.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
No
but everything I’ve been hearing besides you and a few other have great opinions and insite bit some of the fans on AP IMO if we did some of the things that some people are saying we would be putting our selves in a bigger hole for 5 to 10 years down the line instead of taking a smaller risk to get our franchise QB if we sit back again we will be watching the superbowl again from the sofa for many years to come I don’t have any faith in Kyle or Matt! I’m sorry Haha
by kcchiefs2782 on Feb 1, 2012 2:44 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
For me, it's just a really simple numbers game.
Trying to find one great QB is easier and less risky than trying to gather five great linemen.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
We need 2 linemen, an G and a RT in the draft we are good until Alberts contract is up.
Especially if we can keep Lilja and B. Rich as back up. Let Cassel (no ‘new’ contract needed) or Orton (If Romeo wants him AND he will sign a 1-2 year deal…no way should he be signed to a long term deal) play another season while our two O-linemen (DeCastro & Adams should do nicely) and maybe a #2 TE this off-season have one season to ‘gel’ before we start our QBOTF (Stanzi or a 1st round 2013 draft pick…noticed I said pick, not pickS, as in more then one pick).
If I thought for a minute that our O-line could keep not one but two QB’s from being injured (like the did last season) I would LOVE to trade the house for Luck / RGIII…but the O-Line DID sideline TWO QB’s last year and we are F – ^ – C – K, F^CKED if we ‘sell the farm’ (make no doubt we will HAVE to sell the farm to get Luck or RGIII) for either of them and they get injured. Cassel (or even Orton if signed) doesn’t come with THAT kind of LONG TERM risk (multipe high round draft picks….for multiple season). If Cassel, Orton or Stanziget run over its not a 3-5 year set back….Luck – RGIII would be.
Heh, Albert's contract is up in 2013. So we have one year to, uh, relax?
And you still talk like there’s no RISK that DeCastro and/or Adams won’t work out. Or that Asamoah/Albert/Hudson won’t get injured.
It’s just plain mathematically more likely to keep one person healthy and playing well than five.
Yes there is a risk that our shiny new franchise QB might get injured. But not having a franchise QB is a pretty ridiculous strategy for avoiding that risk.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Nahhh, Brs ... no other guys ever bust in the 1st round
Except QB’s … according to Sweet Lips and maybe some others on here? But Swollen Red-Lips writes the “No Other Positions and Players Ever Bust in the First Round Except QB’s” comprehensive guide. (sarcastic eye roll)
Anywho … I agree with trading a lot for RG-3 (since it would really be unimaginable what it would take for the Colts to let go of Luck). Let’s see … we have to build a stellar OL, have a stellar running game, stellar receivers and a stellar D to make our mediocre/average game manager QB look reasonable. Well hell … how about considering Jason Campbell then, too? I’m with you, Brs – we have a better shot at getting a kickass QB, than building awesome everything else. I don’t understand this line of thinking? Guten Abend!
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Feb 2, 2012 5:44 PM CST up reply actions
the problem is a franchise QB is not the same as a elite QB . A franchise qb is just the one you commit to . Matt Cassell is a franchise QB and he became one the moment we decided to pay him 60+ million dollars
A great QB is great based on his play not on what you paid him or simply because you drafted him high.
I would say that its much easier to build a line that we can win the SB with than it is to draft a elite QB .
by Willie Beamon on Feb 5, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I think if Pioli keeps on the 2nd- or 3rd-round picks on OL until they're rounded-out,
they ought to be in good shape long-term. Still quite a few moving parts, in the meatime.
would of ≠ would've
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Arrowhead Pride
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley arrested again; now has more NFL arrests than NFL sacks
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
