Some Interesting Matt Cassel Talk
by Joel Thorman on Jan 26, 2012 12:38 PM CST
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Yeah in the interview
He said, like in passing, that they would talk to Orton before going on to talk about Cassel and how he can lead the team. Not sure what to make of that.
by Joel Thorman on Jan 26, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I'm going to bury my head in the sand
And pretend it means they’re going to pursue Orton heavily and don’t have faith in Cassel.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
typical lawyer ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
lalalalalala
Not listening!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
2-5-4 post ... check it out, kinda cool
dunno if it would work any better, but it’s a cool concept … no need for NT
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
So weak against the run.
So, so weak. Guards and tackles would eat our LB’s for breakfast.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
What Kalo said
Unless you’ve got 2 Ngata’s to put on the line, it’d never work as a base defense.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
We already use it as a subpackage :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Orton and Cassel
are both represented by Athletes First sports agency
It would be interesting to see if the agent wants to attempt to negotiate a contract that might hurt another one of his clients
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 26, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Cassel already has a contract.
Orton’s wouldn’t invalidate it.
Also, I’m sure teammates that compete for positions on a team have the same agents all the time. It seems to be an individual basis kind of thing.
psst: follow the money
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What bossman said
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
In my opinion
it looks like he’s saying they’ll make an effort to keep Orton, but with the knowledge that Cassel is the one under contract, he can’t just leave him under the bus.
Pioli has to walk a think line in not making his players feel terrible, and also giving the small amount of info he gives us.
I’m glad that he says they’ll at least try to keep Orton. That’s positive.
yeah but cassel contract was front loaded he got paid, it won't cost much to trade or dump cassel
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Well that's true.
I was referring to Orton. He’s a free agent that will look for a starting job I’m sure. Some team could outbid us, or he may just not want to be in KC.
No way.
Even with all of the Cassel haters around here, you have to admit he would make an excellent back-up.
then what do u do with stanzi
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
Let him compete with Cassel for #2
Three QB’s would be a darn good idea.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 26, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I like the idea IF...
the money is right. We would have a competitive QB situation and perhaps the best QB situation since Trent Green if this happened (and it very well could), but again the money HAS to be right and I think Pioli will make sure it is. After all the organization keeps a pretty good hold of their money.
even with the front loaded contract if Orton was a clear starter Cassel would probably have to either renegotiate his contract or get cut
No way you pay a backup that kind of money, at least not for very long.
I would have to look at exactly how much he will be getting next season and of course this also would depend on how much Orton would make here but that is my first knee jerk impression.
that would be most splendid idea
bring Orton back
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I am getting the distinct impression that the Chiefs
are committed to bringing Cassel back to the starting position even though he was outplayed by Orton who had all of two weeks experience before starting a game. I am guessing at this point they let Orton walk so there is no quarterback controversy and let Saint Matthew return to the starting position. I think this administration is less committed to winning than they are committed to not admitting they made a huge mistake with Cassel.
"The Hammer"
somehow he just doesn't seem to fit the "image" of a QB ...
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Jan 26, 2012 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
yeah i agree it sucks to believe that pioli ego is more important than doing whats right for the qb spot
orton way better than cassel
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions
Galling...
This is what galls me about Cassel & Pioli. The Cassel trade doesn’t have to be viewed as a failure. When it was made, it was necessary. Cassel brought stability to the position, while the team was being rebuilt. However, now it is time to take the next step, Mr. Pioli.
by Special K on Jan 26, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 22 recs
Exactly.
I have been against Cassel as much as anyone on here, but I don’t have a problem with the original move. We were unsure about Cassel, and at least they tried to improve the position.
Now we know that the ceiling for Cassel is mediocre at best, and they need to move on at some point. He is not the long term answer.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
by saskwatch on Jan 26, 2012 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Cassel was actually an improvement over what we did have.
Just not good enough.
by bossmanham on Jan 26, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Indeed
Cassel was a step in the right direction at the time. The team needed a change, rather than trying to roll with Croyle or Thiggy. The thing is, yes it was a step, but only a step.
Pioli went out and made a move. Now do it again because that one wasn’t quite enough.
by TheScootness on Jan 26, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
absolutely correct
except that Orton is not the next step.
Taking a risk to try and propel the franchisee forward is the next step.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Orton would be risky.....
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
by Brsrkr on Jan 26, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly.
Regardless if people like Cassel or not, Orton is a lateral move. IMO, Orton can be better marginally but, only marginally.
"We couldn't beat the Chiefs, but we damn near killed their horse"
John Madden 1975 Chiefs-42 Raiders-10
And if that MARGINAL improvement improves the offense ten -fold then what ?
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
Improves the offense from bad to mediocre?
I ask this because they were (are) bad. Injuries aside, they were flat out bad. I don’t see a lateral move at QB changing that unless of course JCs return puts them back to number one running game.
"We couldn't beat the Chiefs, but we damn near killed their horse"
John Madden 1975 Chiefs-42 Raiders-10
by Chiefs_40 on Jan 26, 2012 5:39 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
and JC will return weather or no Orton is signed.
If the team is ever going to move up and take a 1st round QB… there could not be a better time.
New HC, New OC, New system/scheme, the return of JC and a solid running game, the return of a TE that can catch the ball, and Eric Berry coming back to improve an already good defensive unit.
You can’t ask for much better of a scenario in which to develop a young talented QB. Plenty of draft picks left to address the O-Line outside the first round, and one of the biggest free agent years in recent memory in which to improve the lines, as well as the team…. and so much cash under the cap that we could front load the CRAP out of that rookie QB’s salary so that 2 years from now (if he’s terrible)… we aren’t penalized by his contract.
Cassel is mediocre. Orton is mediocre+1.
Neither is the solution. Argue all you want that Orton is better than Cassel. I stand by the statement that NEITHER one of them is good enough.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Well Ortons offenses without a running game have been ranked higher than Matts even with Matt having better pieces around him
Orton without any running game in Denver produced an offense just as good as the one we had in Matts most effective year here in 2010.
In 2010 we averaged 21.9 and The broncos with Orton averaged 21.5
in 2011 we averaged 9.0 with Matt and the Broncos with Orton were averaging 19.3
Orton is not Rodgers but hes shown the ability to get more from less the claim that we should only play football if we have Rodgers is not bound to the reality of the NFL.
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:57 PM CST up reply actions
And once again...
NO ONE is arguing that Cassel is superior to Orton.
List all the numbers you’d like that show Orton is slightly better than Cassel.
I agree with you… Orton is a semi-soft pile of shit to Cassels liquid pile.
No one is claiming we should only play football if we have Rodgers.
I’m simply stating that Orton is NOT a big enough upgrade (or even potential upgrade) that the Chiefs should be giving him a multi-year contract.
You can call him the best mediocre QB ever to play the game if it make you feel better. Won’t matter to me, because I’m looking for a GREAT quarterback, and I’m willing to settle for a GOOD one… and I’m willing to spend a season developing one… rather than WASTE a season on Orton just to end right back where we are now…. with a Mediocre QB that needs to be replaced.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think almost everyone agrees with this obviously.
Can Pioli see it? I sure hope so.
But they didn't make a mistake with Cassel
why do people always refer to Matt as a mistake? That’s so stupid! Matt was the best option at the time and he filled the role well. Now, we need to move on and find someone that can take us to another level. However, in 2009 Cassel was the best option available and HARDLY a mistake.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Jan 26, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
I essentially said the same thing as Special K
just hadn’t gotten to his post yet.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Jan 26, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
Steven St John's comments strike me as odd.
I’ve always maintained that Kyle Orton is the better pure QB of the two. But I always felt like, from strictly a leadership perspective, Cassel strikes me as the better leader. Orton seems a bit more quiet and reserved while Cassel seems more comfortable as center of attention. Cassel is more handsome and attractive than Orton (no homo) and if you look around, a lot of successful QBs are good leaders in part because people are more willing to follow more attractive guys (Brady, Cam Newton, etc).
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
So Orton is that nerd that is one day going to be making the big bucks while the handsome jock
goes on to be the failure?
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Jan 26, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Kyle Orton is no Sheldon Cooper.
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
or D.B.Cooper
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Or Anthony Cooper
/lost dork
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
or Winnie Cooper...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
Or Mr. Cooper
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Alice?
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Gordon!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Hmmm...
good question
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
BANG! (Big?)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Sudden, I thought St John's remarks were very telling and important
if true, it really knocks down what we’ve heard (been told) about Cassel as a “team leader” … a lot goes on inside the clubhouse and behind closed doors that we don’t hear about, but if this is indeed what was being said (by anyone, really) I think it’s pretty clear that Orton is a far, far preferable choice as QB (and not just from on the field performance)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I find them telling too
and to be honest, my perception of Cassel as a leader wasn’t shaped by the media and the stories of him being the “team leader” as much as he just sort of fit the bill. Reasonably attractive guy, seems comfortable with public speaking and being in the spotlight, etc. It goes to show you that you never know how things go down behind the curtain, just kinda surprised me (and even more surprised that Orton would be considered a solid leader).
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
Orton may not be the most handsome guy on the
field, but it is obvious from his and the team’s demeanor he is every bit the leader Matt Cassel is if not more so.
"The Hammer"
I think he's much more attractive than that brute Cassel ...
those soft baby blue eyes, his warm and engaging smile … and he notices when guys look at him, he knows … mmmm yes he does
/shivers with an … tici … pation
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Jan 26, 2012 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
no hetero?
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
by Sudden on Jan 26, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
ROFL
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
speechless
Providing COLOR commentary for Arrowhead Pride! AKA The Picture Diva!
"I am not embarrassed to be with a younger man, except when I drop him off at school."-Angie Dickinson, veteran vixen
Ups, I just knew you'd leave me for Orton one day!
/devastated….and creeped out a bit
LOOL
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
Shocked? Really?
I dont know how much clearer it could have been in only 3 games how much more decisive Orton was than Cassel. AND how much more the players responded to his said decisions and leadership than we saw all year (agreed there was a huge change that really generated respect at Head Coach position)
But everyone seemed to be behind Orton’s capabilities. Good looks and suaveness will take a back seat to a player in the locker room that is more concerned with stability at QB and winning.
by Dotcommer Dude KC on Jan 26, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know how much of a team leader Orton is
but he’s very confident. He knows how to run an offense and he knows he’s very capable as a QB. I think his confidence in the huddle is what shines here. Because of Cassel’s tendencies in the pocket and holding onto the ball, I think he tends to struggle and becomes prone to mistakes, thus loosing the confidence of his huddle and his teammates. I see Orton going into any game knowing he’s going to give his team the best chance to win. I don’t see that attitude in Matt Cassel.
Dx3: Draft David DeCastro
He's got hair on his chest because he's a whiskey drinker.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I remember McClain after the Packers game
Saying something like: “No disrespect to Matt or Tyler, but Orton is a whole different animal…he was there on the sidelines telling us, ‘just be here and I’ll get you the ball’” Pretty big endorsement of Orton/indictment of Cassel, if you ask me. Cassel is only a leader in the sense that he works extremely hard and is in the building for everything, he’s not a vocal leader, like what you actually want out of a QB. Remember, in NE he said that he’d be perfectly happy going back to being Brady’s backup after ‘08…he didn’t feel the need to start. Not exactly a leadership quality there.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
This McClain statement
in conjunction with the St. John stuff…that speaks volumes. I’d rather have Orton than #7 anyway…but this only solidifies it.
Now, on to the apologists!
No one it's going to argue that Matty iso better than Kyle..
Next subject.
Angry Red, 'nuff said.
by chiefsfan62 on Jan 26, 2012 1:26 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
is; is
:/
Angry Red, 'nuff said.
by chiefsfan62 on Jan 26, 2012 1:27 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
they works for Ups.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
I think at the end of the day...
The QB that gives the team the best chance to win is the QB that the team rallies around. Cassel may have better leadership qualities but when Orton was brought in and showed he could win, and win on a level that Cassel couldn’t (lets face it there was a game or two that Cassel WOULD NOT have won), Orton became the better leader, regardless of his personality.
I agree that it seems odd that Orton would have that affect in the locker room when you just look at him, but success can create a leader in some unlikely places.
I find all this interesting when I think about this quote from Le'Ron after the GB game
“Nothing against (Palko) or (Cassel), man, just — Kyle is a new beast out there with us,” fullback Le’Ron McClain said. “He ran the whole game on the sideline, coming to us on certain plays, telling us in the huddle — boom, boom, ‘Just get open for me right here.’ ”
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
very telling...
one of the most upbeat posative guys this year endorsing Orton…
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
positive...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
yah, I remember that ... pretty much sold me on Orton right then and there
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
yeah, me too
that and the fact that he hit 10 different receivers in his FIRST game with KC.
by stagdsp on Jan 26, 2012 1:15 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
of course he did, but the Packers have the worst defense and anyone could have done that!
(or so many people said at the time)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Meh
I honestly feel orton is a product of defense success. So in that sense hey he may take us to the superbowl only to lose but at least we went right? I want a winner.
by Harmondale on Jan 26, 2012 2:24 PM CST via Android app up reply actions
300 yards in two games with a bum finger after being with the team for two weeks...
more than just the defense there.
I think Orton helped the D
with Orton under center we had a lot less 3-and-outs and thus our D was better rested throughout the game and playing with a better field position advantage.
And Romeo saying if it wasn't for Orton
he would not have gotten the HC job
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
And Muir said the lack of sacks over the final three games
is due to Orton’s quick release
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
As do I
All of a sudden our O-line didn’t look AWFUL at pass blocking.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yeah, Orton even made BRich look ok.
and that is hard to do.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
Although B-Rich still pretty much sucked
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Lol, I said that in another post and people responded with links showing that it is possible to polish a turd
I think you just have to spray it with enough lacquer then it can be polished up nice and shiny.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
Or.. if it's a "golden turd"
like the one I awarded the team in another thread for “most complete team lacking a good QB”
by Ochophosphate on Jan 26, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
But still
a REAL QB with a REAL release and a REAL clue in the passing game suddenly turns a turnstile into a paper wall. Think what Orton could do behind a DECENT OL.
More than Cassel, I can tell you that
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
And Orton saying he has never had so much fun
after the Green Bay game. Maybe this helps in his desire to stay in KC.
by loyal Chief fan on Jan 26, 2012 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
I hope Pioli doesn't ruin that.
Pioli just needs to leave the team alone. Let Romeo coach and just get the personnel. I know Romeo would stick with Orton because he’s not a moron. If Pioli keeps his big bald head in what he does best, personnel, then we might get a good thing going here.
Not sure I agree with that
Peyton Manning is an ugly man but players follow him because he is charismatic but also because he is a winner. Manning will step up, take a leadership role, and play lights out. Colts and every player with him doesn’t follow him because he is good looking.
Eli is another example, not a great looking dude, has a more laid back attitude than Peyton but people follow him because he is a winner. God knows its not because he is charismatic or a natural born leader.
Unless a player is just a major asshole and he gives others the best chance to win, they will follow him.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
agree 100%
I said something similar higher up before I saw this post.
Guy I teach with
played against Orton in HS. Said he was a major jerk back then. He’s always struck me as having kind of a goofy grin but, I’ll tell you what….I liked watching him sling the ball around, go through his progressions, move the ball down the field, etc…better than Cassel on Cassel’s few good days. Orton’s floor at times might be lower than Cassel’s because he takes risks, but his ceiling is MUCH higher. Floor to ceiling, think of Cassel being in a 3 foot room and Orton in Cowboy Stadium with the roof up.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
fun with numbers!
Cassel at his best 469 yds, 0 INT, 4 TDs last year vs DEN
cowboys stadium is 292 ft hight
meaning Orton should be able to put up these numbers:
45,649 yds, 0 INT, and 389 TDS
It's possible
Just needs Jamaal back is all… ;)
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Man that would be a game to watch!
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by Scaryclouds on Jan 26, 2012 4:29 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ive never liked Cassel since the first time i watched him play here
He just does not look “natural” when he plays.. and misses out on too many big plays….even when he played well last year(against really bad teams) you always felt like he could have done SOOOOO much more….blown opportunities…
The guy is nothing more than a back up….
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
The guy is nothing more than a back up….
I disagree on this count. I think Cassel is a serviceable NFL starter for a team trying to build the rest of its roster. He’s not a guy that can take you over the hump and turn your team into a championship team. He has some moments where he looks solid, has some moments where he is underwhelming, but throughout it all he never strikes you as elite. I think he’s received a lot of criticism for this season eventhough he had to deal with a non-existent running game and poor playcalling. Were he elite, he would’ve been able to overcome those. But he wasn’t exactly put in a great situation. That said, I consider him a mid level starter, on par with a Sanchez, but by no means elite.
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
But we brought him in to be this guy, at what point do you cut your losses
He’s not a guy that can take you over the hump and turn your team into a championship team.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
I agree.
I’m not saying we keep him. My only contention is that I have no problem with the fact that we brought him in when considering what out other options were in 2009.
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
I hear that ... hell, I'd have no issue with keeping him now
as #2 behind Orton :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'd be lying if I said I saw his ineptness coming, thought we actually robbed the Pats.
But, like every thing I’ve ever thought, I was wrong.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Matt has never won a big game here
He has only beat one team since he got here that had a winning record…Pitt in 09….thats IT!….Pitt did not even make the playoffs that year…..if thats the best he can do, then he is not even as good as a backup…Orton proved how bad Cassel is, when he came in after 3 weeks on the roster and led the Chiefs to a win over the undefeated superbowl champs in his first start…..Sanchez, had his team in 2 straight AFC Championship games…..Cassel has played in 1 playoff game in 4 years as a starter and got blown the f**k out…..he ALWAYS gets blown the f**k out when he plays a good team…
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
He was the starting QB
he had something to do with it…i know they had a great D, but……
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
he didn't give it away with INT's or Fumbles? :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
And in the years they went to the AFC Championship game:
Sanchez 2009: 196/364 53.8% 2,444 yards 12 TD/20 INT 63.0 Passer Rating
Sanchez 2010: 278/507 54.8% 3,291 yards 17TD/13 INT 75.3 Passer Rating
Cassel 2009: 271/493 55.0% 2,924 yards 16 TD/16 INT 69.9 Passer Rating
Cassel 2010: 262/450 58.2% 3,116 yards 27 TD/ 7 INT 93.0 Passer Rating
I stand by what I said. Cassel is on par with Sanchez. The numbers don’t lie.
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
thats fine...my opinion is that id still rather have sanchez
for the simple fact that he has AT LEAST been in BIG GAMES and came out victorious……cassel NEVER HAS
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
I'd rather have neither.
They both suck.
by m.yashi on Jan 26, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
greened
The Sanchize is not the franchise by any stretch. He’s horrible. He’s slightly better than Matt Leinart.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
I'd rather have neither as well
But one thing Sanchez can do that Cassel never could is at least try to run a 2 minute drill. If we are down by 6 with 45 seconds and the ball with Cassel at the helm just turn off the tv. With Sanchez, I’ve seen him win those games.
And Cassel was our starter when KC got to the playoffs, too. But you argue that we got there in spite of him.
Cassel = Taller, less physically gifted Sanchez. Just can’t get the mechanics consistent or the mental side of the game “down cold.” Either of them.
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 27, 2012 12:33 AM CST up reply actions
I've heard this repeated and I have no idea why
First off how many games has Cassel played against winning teams in his time at KC?
when I say winning teams I’m talking about their record at the time we played them not their overall record at the end of that season.
in ’09 he played 6 and beat 2 the PIT and DEN
in ’10 he played zero, seriously we had a few games vs teams with tied records but no winning ones
in ’11 he played 3 and beat 2, OAK and SD.
so that invalidates a bunch of your points because they’re just plain factually wrong. The biggest problem I have is that you say he gets blown out when he plays a “good” team, because a team being “good” or not is totally subjective, I could bring up a game that we lost vs a team with a winning record and you can just say, “oh but they weren’t good.” It’s a meaningless standard because it’s not based on facts.
can also add in that he only has 5 4th quarter comebacks
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
The only playoff team he's ever beaten?
the eventual NFC West Champion Seahawks, who went 7-9.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Just to be pedantic
I’ll point out that he beat AZ and MIA in ’08 with the Pats
-and yes it is incredibly cheap of me to even mention it.
so...even if thats true
he has beat 3 teams in 4 years as a starter…..if you REALLY want to nitpick what i wrote then Ill say this….he has NEVER won a game against a PLAYOFF TEAM since he came to KC….except, the 7-9 Seahawks
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Not "even if that is true" it is true, these are facts
And what you just posted is a fact as well. If you eliminate the ‘09 season which we should because KC was kinda horrible all around. He has only played 4 games against playoff bound teams since he came to KC. 1 in 4 isn’t great but it’s not like he’s had a huge number of chances.
you are totally nitpicking and missing the entire point
Matt Cassel sucks and he has sucked ever since he got here…the “good year” he had last year, 10 wins, all came against bad teams, he has been on the losing end of SEVERAL blowouts….and even when he did win, it was NOT THAT IMPRESSIVE….you sir, are just arguing for the sake of arguing…there is no way, anybody can justify Cassel play the last 4 years…if they try, then it just tells me they know NOTHING about QB play in the NFL….Cassel is not an NFL caliber QB that will take you very far unless you have weak schedule like he had last year….the whole idea is to not just play well, but to win SBs…no way in hell he will EVER do that.
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
I'll ask a question that I did much lower in this thread
If I could promise you a KC team that would goto the playoffs nearly every year, win a couple AFC championships but never win a super bowl, would you take it or pass?
Our disagreement may mean that we simply have a difference of opinion, and maybe not that I, “know NOTHING about QB play in the NFL.” I’m not missing your point, you really don’t like Cassel and think he’s a very bad QB, got it. I just happen to disagree.
that answer is easy for me
NO….im a 40 yr old, that has never seen a SB victory…the whole point is to WIN SUPER BOWLS….so why stick with a guy, who is supposed to be the best player on your team, the leader, if you KNOW he is NOT going to take you to the promise land…
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
but Orton isn't going to take use there either.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
And if Orton turns into the next Trent Green, a backup/retread made good....will you eat those words?
Not that I think it’ll happen or anything, but it ‘could.’ Just like I ‘could’ buy the winning Powerball ticket tomorrow.
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 27, 2012 12:35 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, and Cassel COULD turn a corner this season and become elite as well
After all Cassel and Orton (for their careers) have been almost identically mediocre QB’s that have played the same number of games and gotten the same resutls.
Orton will be a 30 year old QB with a career QB raiting of 79.5 and a sub 59% completion rate for his career.
Cassel will be a 30 year old QB with a slightly higer career QB raiting (84.7 )and a 60% completion rate for his career.
The chances that Orton turns into the next Trent Green are slightly worse than the chances that Matt Cassel will.
If I’m going to buy a powerball ticket… I’ll spend the Chiefs money on Stanzi or RG3 or even Matt Flynn long before I spend it on Orton.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 27, 2012 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
I could turn my career around too
After all, I am doing P90X. Maybe I could make a run at being an elite TE. At 6’2" 220…if I could get the 4.7 40 time back from college…
Does being 36 change my chances? I guess KC keeps resigning Becht, so obviously not! I’m gonna be RICH!
In accordance with the prophecy
Orton and Cassel are the SAME age, with the virtually the same number of games
and virtually the same career statistics ….
What , for all that is good and holy, gives ANYONE the impression that ONE of them is a lost cause (Cassel) that can not ever improve, while the other one is going to rocket this team to stardom while turning his career on it’s ear next season?
It’s completely illogical. It’s total denial.
Face it…. Orton is no better than Cassel. Neither one is the solution.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Wait, Miami was a playoff team as recently as 08?
Why don’t I remember this?
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
because that's the year Cassel was
the Patriots QB and Miami won the division…
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
2008 was the year I turned 21
That might account for any amnesia I have for that football season
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Somewhere buried in a web of malted hops and bong resin
is the memory of the ’08 season
who knows, maybe you blacked it out because of how awful KC was in ’08.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 26, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Prrobably a combination of both.
I can’t remember. lol
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
There was one bar that I viewed every Chiefs game that season at
I’m pretty sure singlehandly I paid for the owner to send three kids to ivy league schools and give the other three braces.
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
You are not seriously trying to justify Matt Cassels play in KC, are you?
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Used to be more
Now they’re an endangered species
Todd Haley lost 7 of his last 15 games by 20 or more points. It was time for him to go.
by joplin chiefs fan on Jan 26, 2012 4:54 PM CST up reply actions
This year...
San Diego and Oakland did not have winning records….both 8-8 like Denver.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
At the time we played them they did
both were 4 and 2.
I understand the confusion but if you read my whole post I stated quite clearly that I was basing it on the records they had when we played them not their overall records for the season, I did this mainly because it’s easier than having to look up the record of every team we played.
Wow
That was a bunch of garbage to sift through for the last 10 minutes lol.
the bottom line is that the large majority of readers here on AP have zero confidense that Cassel is or could be the answer going forward and he has not lived up to expectations to this point. Could the chiefs have done worse? yes(could still have Croyle as our starter). Did most of us think the Cassel trade was a bad move? No, and a lot of people would be lieing ff they contest that remark lol. Is it time to move on from Cassel? I think (as well as a lot of other) Yes.
There you go, agree to disagree and lets move on
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
My bad
dont take offese to the garbage remark please, was not trying to be a roach just saying the back and forth was a bit much.
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
I know what you mean about not looking natural..
He looks so uncomfortable in the pocket. It actually makes me uncomfortable watching him. Good plays are more of a surprise than something I expect when they happen. Orton may not be the most comfortable looking QB in the world either, but he’s still miles ahead of Cassel in that regard.
Pioli is either going to win with Cassel...or lose his job because of him.
I really don’t see it happening any other way.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Well if he does, than his nickname "EGOLI"
fits him…..Cassel is not going to get any better….as a football guru, he should know that….
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Pioli needs to pull his head out of his ass and tell Matt to head for the mountains...
give Orton what he needs to sign, no more, no less…
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
by SFLChief on Jan 26, 2012 12:49 PM CST reply actions 5 recs
I would prefer they sign Orton
and then trade Cassel… but as long as they sign Orton, it’s all good.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Id prefer they didn't settle for a guy that's never been any more than of an elite QB than Cassel
If were going to give a new QB a contract… I’d prefer if we took someone with the potential to be elite… and used the 2012 season to develop them.
Honestly, I’d rather see Stanzi start in 2012 than Orton if it comes down to that.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
You think Stanzi could win more games? Or are you advocating S4L?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
no hes advocating wasting time period . So we play Stanzi and suck and then we play a rookie QB and suck again
Not only are you wasting the prime years of several of our best players hes basically guaranteed Romeo will be tired after 2/3 years and then we are bringing in someone else who may or not be in love with the previous coaches choice of QB.
If we were gonna tank for two years why sign Romeo ? Why not sign an offensive HC with qb grooming ability and trade the entire draft for Luck ?
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
no, im not. But thanks for trying.
Playing Orton is the very definition of wasting time.
Kyle Orton is a mediocre starting QB any way you slice it. He’s NOT the solution. He does NOT have the potential to become an elite QB, and the Chiefs are looking for their version of an elite franchisee QB.
Since we already KNOW that Orton does not foot the bill… every single game we use Orton as a starter is wasted time.
Stanzi is NOT my first choise (move up for RG3 is) BUT… at this point Stanzi has something that Orton does not…. potential to develop into something great. He’s not there, but he might be able to get there with play time, coaching, and development. Orton will NEVER get there… ever…ever…..ever.
If we’re going to replace a mediocre Cassel… why replace him with yet another mediocre QB. That’s basically guaranteeing that Romeo will be shuffled out the door in 2 or 3 years and a new HC brings in a rookie QB.
Orton sucks. He might suck slightly less than Cassel, but at the end of the day the Chiefs will just be sucking a 6 inch dong instead of a 7 inch one when next years playoff start. Orton is a complete waste of time… not to mention a new contract.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
You dont know what Orton has the potential to be in a Chiefs uniform . What the facts state is that we were 2-1 and a very good chance at being 3-0 .
If the rest of the league thought the way you do there would only be 5 teams even playing because there are only 5 elite Qbs what do the other teams do every year fail to show up simply because they dont have anyone thats going to the HOF ?
Your theory is beyond ridiculous we dont need Orton to go to the HOF for us to even have a chance to go to the SB.
If Ortons sucks then Stanzi shouldnt even be in the league because I dont see anyone who thinks hes gonna be anywhere near a 3800 yard passer which is what Orton is .
As soon as posters start saying never it basically exposes them and there ridiculous theories
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
Yes I do.
Orton sucks. and he has the potential to rise all the way to mediocre in a Chiefs uniform.
It’s your theory thats ridiculous. By any measure of Ortons career numbers.. he’s a mediocre QB. He’s not going to magically become good for the Chiefs. Argue all you want about how much more talent the Chiefs have… than other teams he’s played for…. but that doesn’t make it true.
Orton is a waste of everyone’s time in a Chiefs uniform. Feel free to disagree with me all you want. It won’t hurt my feelings one bit. Orton is a mediocre QB, and that’s all he will ever be.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I somewhat agree that he is a mediocre QB
But he still looks like a NFL QB. And think about it. With our young VERY solid up and coming defense, do we really need a superstar QB to make the playoffs and potentially win the Super Bowl? Great defenses can have a QB like Alex Smith and make championship games. I see the Chiefs chances with Orton to potentially be the same in a year or two.
He doesn’t freak out in the pocket after 3 seconds, and when he sees a receiver he actually gets the ball out of his hands. That’s what NFL QB’s do. They are poised under pressure.
We can’t just take a chance playing Stanzi because we want to “see what hes got” if he doesn’t legitimately win the starters job. If we do that and don’t start a “decent” NFL QB then we may squander the years that we may have a championship caliber defense looking for that mythical beast that is the “franchise quarterback”. Life is too short, always play the players that give you the best chance to win.
which is why we shouldn't spend a second on Orton and should go get a QB with elite potential
We can’t take the chance of starting Orton (whose not much better than Cassel) when we could be using that roster spot to add a guy that has a chance to be the future of the team.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
No one is limiting us to an "elite" QB.. least of all me...
I’m simply stating that developing a player that has the POTENTIAL to become a great/elite QB should be the #1 goal for the Chiefs offense.
Look around the league to the teams that are perennial winners. They have something in common. They are set at QB with a player that is a good to great QB with the potential to carry their team. Sure, there has been the occasional exception through the years….. but that’s what it was, an exception.
If the Chiefs want to build a sustainable successful offense (and as a Chiefs fan that’s exactly what I want) they need to develop a quarterback with the potential to become that elite player.
Orton doesn’t fit the bill.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I think Stanzi has potential to develop into a non-mediocre QB. Orton does not.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Cassel is not the answer at QB to be able to win a SB
but whether people want to admit it or not, for the past 3 years he has been the best option available to us at QB
If you mean he’s been the best option on the roster I’d say you’re right. If you mean that the Chiefs couldn’t have gone out and brought in someone better I would disagree.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Who?
who has Pioli passed on that is clearly no doubt about it better than Cassel?
by badassz1987 on Jan 26, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
H e was not the best QB when Orton was on the roster….Orton proved what this offense could do when he started….they moved the ball, opened up the playbook, and looked efficient….kept teams offbalance……
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
by KCinAZ on Jan 26, 2012 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree. if Pioli wants to win championships
Like he said he does..he HAS to upgrade qb position. Sign Orton because he is an upgrade. I still think they draft a qb this year and trade cassel or keep him as backup. Is rather us trade him for whatever we can get for him
by jcrunninwild on Jan 26, 2012 1:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think it's possible to win a Super Bowl with Matt Cassel
A Super Bowl. One. Singular.
He very much reminds me of Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson at their best, managing the game, not committing turnovers, and letting the defense do it’s thing. Stick him on a team with a stellar defense, and that team might make it to the Super Bowl at some point.
that said, as tempting as it is to say I’d do anything for a Super Bowl, that’s not what I want. I want my team to be the team that’s there year after year, always in the mix, and anything other than at LEAST a trip to the AFC championship game is a failure. I want to be mentioned in the same breath as the Saints, Packers, Patriots, etc. All those teams are good year in and year out. What do they have in common? A stud QB.
Do the math.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
by DanielH123 on Jan 26, 2012 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
i agree on your last few sentences
But I do not believe in cassel. He’s had one good year stats wise with us. He was horrible this year. That’s my opinion. I want us to win it all obviously but just don’t believe in Cassel. He can’t handle pressure. Baltimore in playoffs last year and many regular season games proved that.
by jcrunninwild on Jan 26, 2012 1:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You might agree with more than you think
I think Cassel, at his best, is a QB who won’t lose you any games. That’s his ceiling, as good as he can get.
A QB like that with an elite defense will eventually have the cards fall his way into a Super Bowl, Just like the Ravens, just like the Giants before Eli, just like the Buccaneers.
Cassel was fine when this was a 2-14 team and we had a ton of other areas to address. Now that we’ve got a receiving corps, an overall above-average-to-really-good D, the best RB in the NFL, and we’re ready to challenge for the AFC championship, I think he’s no longer what this team needs, and needs to ride the pine.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Cassel has lost us games
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Technically
a dropped TD and ST lost Orton that game
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Oh I agree
I’m saying that at his BEST, he’s a QB who won’t lose you the game, not on a consistent basis. Think back to last year when we won the division. That was his M.O. for the most part.
This year, he’s been awful for sure.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
he did lose us games though
San Diego for one. But he is definitely not what we need to take this team to the next level.
by jcrunninwild on Jan 26, 2012 1:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Trent Dilfer made some throws in that Super Bowl
It may have been the defense that got them there, but Dilfer has always been better than Cassel.
Agreed.
It’s incredibly hard, and RARE, to build a team that can win it all with a mediocre QB. And it’s getting tougher with every rule the NFL changes. Yet there are so many who think this “team building” approach is the most conservative way to go…. Counting on 3/4 of your team to be excellent performers and healthy year in and year out is about as risky as it gets.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
id wait to draft a QB til next year
after Luck and Griffin there is a huge falloff….I feel with the decent QB play that orton gives us, we can win with the talent we have RIGHT NOW….good D, great run game and good recievers…..give orton an offseason and training camp, and we should be a pretty high powered offense next year…..i would use this years draft to sure up the O Line…cause youre not gonna get a QB thats worth a first round pick…unless you sell the farm
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
but we don't know (yet) that Pioli has passed on Orton for 2012
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Only because his "golden boy" was done for the season.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
well, Denver was trying to trade him before the season started....but
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Who could they have brought in?
I tend to agree with badass. Just wondered who you had in mind.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
Orton is not the answer at QB to be able to win a SB.
but weather people want to admit it or not, those in favor of Orton are just settling for a DIFFERENT mediocre QB… rather than trying to get a good one.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I understand that you are scared that we sit in mediocrity with a new average QB
But signing Orton is the right move for the franchise. It’s low risk with possible high rewards. I know you want to just hunt for that franchise QB and trust me we all want a franchise QB, but right now the best thing for the franchise for next year is improve in a few areas and stick Orton in at QB. Stanzi will get his shot, but throwing him in the fire before he has either, earned it, or before he is ready could be a huge mistake and is most definitely a huge risk for next seasons win-loss record.
You're right, he isn't a "great" or maybe even a "good" QB
However, he’s better than anything we currently have and if the organization is willing to pursue a youngster that WILL be the guy (a la RG3), I think Orton gives this team the best chance for success moving to the point where the QOF takes over. Just my 2 cents.
But, yes, you’re right that he’s a different average QB. No arguments there.
If they sign Orton
They won’t get anybody young until Cassel’s contract is up… I’d bet on it. they just drafted Stanzi last year. They’re not going to get anything out of Cassel worth getting in a trade.
And yet...
Only 32 NFL teams not all of whom even have a need at the QB positions… don’t listen to me if they do it you’ll find out soon enough.
I don't think most of us needed
long time personnel man Dick Haley, to tell us that Cassel can’t be the guy.
True. But, it's an interesting insight.
And may help explain why his son was half-assing it as our Head Coach.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Yea, it was meant to be a joke.
But I think he was half-assing it mostly because him and Pioli didn’t see eye to eye and he didn’t really give a fuck anymore.
I think he knew he was gone, anyway. And probably wanted to be.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
its moreso that he pointed it out year 1.
and that its someone with so much more experience evaluating pro talent than anyone talking chiefs online
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
Cassel fails to impress and
Hunt still has $5.25M wrapped up into Cassel. This looks like a business decision, not a talent decision. Typical Chiefs’ move, not just Pioli’s.
$5 million isnt that much to let walk in the nfl
It’s a lot of money to us but not in this business. Release or trade cassel.
by jcrunninwild on Jan 26, 2012 1:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
not winning is bad for business...
by CHIEFFAN82 on Jan 26, 2012 2:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I think this might actually be Cassel's cheapest year.
Can’t get to Rotoworld at work, but it seems like his next two year’s salaries are higher.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
he still has a bonus due this year.
i THINK it was in the neighborhood of $8 mil… but I’m too lazy to look it up again right now.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I don't mind cassel
As a backup on our team. I will say this with confidence , we will not win or even go to a championship game with cassel let alone a superbowl. Problem is cassel is only hot a few times , average half the time , and below average the rest of the time . Almost every team that is in or goes to the superbowl has a consistently good not always great QB .
by chiefsman! on Jan 26, 2012 1:09 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Why not
He gets paid . And his natural position is backup . Played it the majority of his career in college and NFL . Until he came here ..
by chiefsman! on Jan 26, 2012 1:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You don't think
a team like the Titans who have Father Time playing quarterback for them would be interested?
He is way better than Cassel already
Not sure who else would be interested in Cassel as a starter…
Someone call Oakland!
by Ochophosphate on Jan 26, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
Three games with Locker does not tell anyone anything.
Especially when you throw for 51% in those 3 games. I don’t by that they are ready to put all their faith in him yet.
You buy that they're ready to give up on a first round pick?
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
There is difference between giving up
and putting off.
Trading for Cassel is a downgrade, even from Hasselbeck.
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 27, 2012 12:41 AM CST up reply actions
I think Cassel and Jacksonville would be good partners
Gabbert sucks or at minimum isn’t ready and there is no one else on the roster worth a crap.
His natural position is backup TE
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Yeah,
just like Carson Palmer did not have a choice.
You think Cassel is going to sit at home?
I sure don’t.
Did you think Palmer was going to sit at home?
I sure didn’t.
Actually, yeah
A lot of people did. It was also plausible that Palmer at his age could retire.
He also was ‘done’ with the organization. They didn’t want him to backup, either. He just hated the org. Very different scenarios.
Althought it is true that the scenarios are different,
the fact of the matter is, players DO have a choice; which was the original discussion.
If he wants to play football he doesn't have a choice
I think Cassel and his wife would feel there is no choice.
It's entirely possible.
I am just leaning the other direction.
Is Matt Cassel a good QB? No
Will he be the starting QB week 1? Yes
Are we wasting the best years of a solid core? Yes
Am I happy about this? No
Is there anything I can do about it? No
Is Scott Pioli tying his Chiefs’ legacy to Cassel? Yes
Will we be looking for a new GM this time next year? Yes
by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2012 1:12 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
yep. this sums it up
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
Right on par
Yay for us … I hope pioli at least TRY’S to keep Orton :/ better than cassel ATM
by chiefsman! on Jan 26, 2012 1:18 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I unfortunately think Pioli will get one more coach before he gets the bootski.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
You think if we have another year with a Top 15 pick he'll get a contract extention?
Isn’t he now on year 4 of a 5 year contract?
by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
honestly, YES
I think Pioli is here for a long, long time
and, I personally think that IS a good thing
Unless he insists on #7 being here for a long, long time
In which case (providing there is the same production), yikes.
the way Cassel gets hit his career won't last much longer as a starting QB even if you have a egomaniac starting him forever
A slow release plus an average offensive line will soon equal many many concussions.
Understood
But then the egomaniacal micro-manager will just have the organization in a constant state of flux which results from too many “temporary QBs”. This doesn’t seem like the best way to improve a team. But what do I know?
agree completely
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
As Matt is Pioli's "golden boy", I think Scott is Clark's
At one point Pioli was looked at as some kind of wunderkind, teams would’ve been looking at him like it was the Reggie White courtship all over again. Clark got his man, and I think if he’s learned anything from his Pops, it’s not to have a revolving door at such a high position. I don’t see him being here 20 years like CP, but I’d say he’ll get at least 3 coach’s before he gets called to the principals office.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
by severn58 on Jan 26, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
but
As Matt is Pioli’s “golden boy”
To me, this was a proven move that our GM is not afraid to chance at going after and getting the most important position on the field. Matt Cassel was a failed risk, let’s try again. Oh but we already did. And when Kyle Orton cannot be that guy to perma-smile our faces, we will just have to draft another Trojan Matt down the road.
I was once fired from a job two days after I waited on Matt Cassel and his wife Lauren Killian. Totally my AP moment to remember. Unfortunately also one of my stupidest moments.
by Chiefs_swagger on Jan 26, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Barkley scares the beejesus outta me, and I can't even say why.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
I can say why
John David Booty
Matt Leinart
Mark Sanchez
Matt Cassel.
But he isn’t those guys. He’s probably be closer to Palmer, and the thing Palmer says is a quote from Skyrim:
“I used to be a franchise QB like you, but then I took a helmet in the knee.”
Tebow might know Jesus, but Bill Muir is old enough to have actually babysat him in the manger.
Just because other USC stunk
Doesnt mean Barkley will, Baylor QBs have always been awful but that wont stop the RGIII fans.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 26, 2012 2:56 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough, but
No past Baylor QBs have been hyped to the point of being top picks. There was no expectation set for them to fail to meet. In defense of the list though – neither Booty nor Cassel were hyped or slotted to go high… nor did they have any expectation of success placed on them.
As for Baylor and AreGee, just like Mizzou (no history of QBs in the NFL) – people still went after Yo Gabba Gabbert.
And of course it doesn’t mean Barkley will bomb, I just think we all like to shit on USC and the infinite hype machine that doesn’t always pan out – and it’s not just QB. I suppose with a program like that though, they put so many guys in the NFL that they’re going to have a decent volume of guys that don’t make it… it’s just the way things go.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 26, 2012 3:06 PM CST up reply actions
I understand.
I am just saying that sometimes a trend stays a trend. I am actually not that worried about Barkley. I just would not be surprised if the trend continues is all.
Only thing in common those guys have with Barkley is the uniform
Those are all Pete Carroll guys. Barkley is not.
Yeah, because
Todd was totally a Pete Carroll guy.
Todd who??
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 27, 2012 12:46 AM CST up reply actions
Oh please.
Baylor has how many students? Baylor has how many 5 star recruits? Baylor is nowhere NEAR USC’s football talent year to year. A list of USC QBs that have failed IS a legitimate statistic because of how many of them were so highly touted out of high school. Is it the system? Who knows but it makes you wonder.
Using a Baylor anomaly makes 0 sense. Baylor has never had very highly regarded QB recruits and doesn’t have a track record of failure in the NFL (or any track record at all really comparatively) like USC has had.
He's way too blonde and smiley.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Why would Pioli lose his job when/if Cassel gets the finger?
Pioli strikes me as a guy that will do whatever it takes to win.
Will he make mistakes? Yes
Are we a much better team since his hire? Yes
Am I believing Todd Haley’s job was too big for his britches? Yes
Did we find a head coach big enough to fill them? Yes
Will Scott Pioli allow Matty Nice to ruin his career? No
I was once fired from a job two days after I waited on Matt Cassel and his wife Lauren Killian. Totally my AP moment to remember. Unfortunately also one of my stupidest moments.
by Chiefs_swagger on Jan 26, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Thank you.
The Pioli pitchfork and torch crowd seems to think Scott just loves Cassel and won’t do anything to upgrade the position.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
If Pioli was willing to do whatever it takes to win.
Matt Cassel would not be the quarterback. It seems obvious to everyone but Pioli that Cassel does not have what it takes to lead this team to a Super Bowl win. If he cannot see that, why would any team want him making decisions for them? If I had a guy working for me and under one of my superviors who I could tell was not cutting it and that supervisor was oblivious to it, I would be looking for another supervisor.
Cassel was the best option at the time
and since that time, Pioli has drafted a QB (Stanzi) who may still be able to play or not, and thanks to Haley, we still don’t know, and Pioli brought in Orton when Cassel went down, and thanks to Haley, he sat too long and then got injured on his first play.
But to say Pioli doesn’t now see the need to improve the QB position is less than truthful.
Need some oil for your torch?
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
We'll see what moves he makes this offseason.
You say that there were no options and he went with the best in Cassel. I’ll buy that completely. Well, now there are options. If he does not make a move then saying it will prove out. I have not said that I am ready to get rid of Pioli right now. What I am saying is that, if he doesn’t do enough this offseason, and a team with a lot of potential flounders because Pioli had faith in the wrong guy, he may not be around much longer. His job is to see a need and fill a need. If he does not see a need there is a problem. If he sees the need and cannot fill it there is a problem.
I think Pioli eventually will find his guy.
But, it’s like trying to find a light switch in the dark
I was once fired from a job two days after I waited on Matt Cassel and his wife Lauren Killian. Totally my AP moment to remember. Unfortunately also one of my stupidest moments.
by Chiefs_swagger on Jan 26, 2012 3:24 PM CST up reply actions
I thought so too
until I saw this post. I hope Joel’s intuitions are wrong.
Orton has gotten a bad name from being on bad teams....
but for me, he is clearly a better QB than Cassel will EVER be….he just sees the field better, gets the ball out, does not get happy feet, and is WAY more accurate…..I have no idea, why, Pioli is not ready to cut ties with Cassel….his contract is not THAT big and he is not owed that much money….I dont care that he and Orton have the same agent…if the chiefs want to give themselves THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN, then the easy choice is Orton….Orton had to feel the love he got here in KC, he has a bad rap everywhere else….I think he would be an easy signing if you dump Cassel
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
by KCinAZ on Jan 26, 2012 1:12 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
+1, but I would say
I have no idea, why, Pioli is not ready to cut ties with Cassel
He very well may be, but he’s not going to let on to us, the media, or other teams what his intentions are. Only harm can come from it; it is a lose-lose situation.
If he is going to try to trade him, he doesn’t want to tell the rest of the league that he has no faith in him being a starting QB or that he thinks poorly of his play. Just like you won’t try to sell your car and tell everyone that you think it’s a piece of shit on wheels. So any negativity now towards him only hurts your cause – this is losing situation #1.
If for some God awful reason we ARE stuck with him at QB next year, then you can’t have your starting QB in the last year of his contract out there knowing that his ownership has no faith in him. You can guarantee a season of piss-poor play and internal turmoil in that case. Here the negativity impacts the locker room as well as your starting QB and again hurts your cause – losing situation #2.
The only positive that can come of this is if Pioli maintains his current stance with the media and takes care of business internally, as it should be. Take the high road and always speak highly of Cassel – even if he doesn’t believe it, he has nothing to gain by taking any other stance.
So no matter what, I doubt you’ll see Pioli say anything negative about Cassel, ever. Even if we trade him or cut him Pioli is going to have mostly positive, uplifting things to say about Matt because that’s just the way it is.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 26, 2012 3:17 PM CST up reply actions
Life is a lot easier to understand if you just imagine the whole thing embedded in sarcasm font.
Or, you can just keep thinking “He said it on the radio so it must be trooooo!”
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Pioli needs to make Orton a priority.
As much as I did defend him in the other thread, if Orton AND either Bowe or Carr are gone, and there aren’t significant moves attempted in free agency, even my patience can wane very quickly.
It’s clear that Orton was a far better QB with this team than Cassel, and I think Pioli knows that. I also think that he’s aware of the reality of the situation with Orton and him being a free agent.
We’ll see what happens. Maybe there’ll be a nice surprise?
if Pioli cant see that then we need a new GM.
by jcrunninwild on Jan 26, 2012 1:21 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Certainly.
But if it doesn’t happen, as you know, it doesn’t mean he can’t. Just perhaps that he lacks options.
now the dick haley portion was very interesting.
i still go back to that gif….of cassel trying to put on his hat. he reminds me of someone with a neurological issue or something, that cant control all their movements. put that guy in a clutch situation, and thats what you get. its mental for him most likely.
my issue is that this team is loaded. defense is awesome, and the offense is stacked if a few lineman are added…but gosh, this team needs a freaking qb.
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
It's mental, along with that incredibly slow delivery of his
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
yeah. the slow delivery i could take....but its the mental aspect he will never fix.
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
I've used this comparison when discussing the Orton/Cassel debate with others:
Kyle’s good is so much better than Cassel’s good. However, Kyle’s bad is so much worse than Cassel’s bad.
Matt Cassel doesn’t deviate very far from his norm, and I think that’s part of what the Chiefs like in him and what we, as fans, hate. He’s never going to be a great QB, and I’d argue he won’t be a good one very often. However, he’s rarely going to have a 3-4 INT game because of it.
Kyle Orton will wow the fans one week, then show up and be absolutely terrible the next. His inconsistency (and inability to score in the red zone) mean that he too will never be a great QB. However, we’ll see more “good QB” games than Matt will provide the team.
Point is, neither is good enough. If there’s no other option on the table, do you hitch the wagon to the risk/reward player or the guy who likely won’t lose us the game, but won’t really win them either?
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2012 1:17 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
impossible by the laws of physics
Kyle’s bad is so much worse than Cassel’s bad
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I understand what your point is going to be.
Matt can’t run the offense like Orton can, regardless if one is playing well and the other isn’t. Teams simply don’t respect the pass with Matt as the QB. However, Orton has some absolutely mind-boggling throws directly at defenders WAY more often than a standard “good” QB.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
this is true ... but that was even we HAD a solid running game
Teams simply don’t respect the pass with Matt as the QB
Orton’s been on some crappy teams … give the man a GOOD OLine (DeCastro-Hudson-Asamoah) and good RB (Jamaal) and good to decent WR’s (Bowe, etc) and I think he can do pretty damned good
tack that onto our defense and I see us next year’s SF Niners
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
First off:
I believe you mean Nicks-Hudson-Asamoah. =)
Second, our defense isn’t SF. It’s good, but theirs is great.
Third, I’m sick and tired of settling for less at the most important position on the field. If there’s nothing else, I’ll have to take Orton. However, I don’t want either.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
get used to it, there's nothing else (as good) out there
and who are you to say our D isn’t great? what kind of troll comes on here and yadda yadda yadda get a life blah blah blah
Nicks is good, but DeCastro is The Futire of the Franchise: Deal With It
ominous, sanctimonious, amen :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Nicks is GREAT, ups.
And it makes that 1st rounder go to another position of need…and you know Nicks can perform at a pro level, no transition required. But that’s not the point of the post. Heh.
Great defenses don’t give up the rushing yardage we do. Not saying we don’t have the core to make a great defense out of, but as of now, it’s not in that league.
And there ARE players out there to play QB. We’re just not willing to throw the cash/picks/players at another team to make it happen.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
We actually weren't all that bad against the rush.
Other teams just had a lead so much it skewed the numbers and made us look worse than we were. lol
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
but we WERE dead last in Red Zone scoring ... that's sickening
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The Gregg/Dorsey combo isn't NEARLY good enough.
Teams would attempt the strong side of the defense and recognize it wasn’t happening early, then they’d just run the weakside A, B, and C gaps for the rest of the game with success. Have to get a stouter NT and a stouter DE over there if you want to be a shutdown D.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
Well said
T-Jax and Houston are SOLID against the run, but we need a NT who can consistently do a better job or teams will just run to the other side.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I would still be on board with trading Dorsey if it meant acquiring a position of need elsewhere
Not that he’s not a good player. He’s played 3-4 DE about as well as he can play it, but he’s not built for it. He’s a 4-3 DT, and would be so much better in that scheme. As fat as NT, I’m hoping we grab one in the middle rounds, and let him and Powe duke it out. Powe looked good during the preseason, though why he wasn’t on the field for 15 of the 16 regular season games, I have no idea.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
The problem with trading Dorsey
Is that he’s good against the run, and we’re unsettled at NT. You do NOT want to have Bailey in there learning the ropes with a mediocre NT beside him.
Now, Bailey improved against the run as the year went along to the point to where he was considerably better than GIlberry, but he still wasn’t where Dorsey is. Way better pass rusher though.
I would only be in favor of trading Dorsey if
A) The staff thinks Bailey is at least mostly read, and;
B) We spend on a proven NT who is a clear upgrade over Gregg (who was an upgrade over Edwards, but not by a whole lot)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Here's a question for you, Kalo
As I was doing my film study on Dorsey, it seemed he was double teamed far, far less than T-Jax or Gregg. Can you confirm this for me and theorize as to whether or not it makes him look better against the run than he actually is?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
oooooooooooooooh statistical analysis! (huge grin)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Confirmed.
I’ve always said that the front is set up to try and get Dorsey as many 1-on-1’s as possible, and that’s very visible as you see Gregg/Gordon/Smith/Edwards doing just that over the past couple years.
It was even more evident when Tyson went out last year, because the team WASN’T able to do that as well, and it hurt both sides of the line. However, when Tyson got healthy towards the end of the year, we were giving Dorsey breaks by utilizing a Tyson-Edwards-Smith front, and that is the strongest run D we have fielded with our front three. Unfortunately, a team just has to drop back to pass, and that front is completely ineffective.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
Thank you, glad to see I wasn't imagining things
That’s been making me wonder about just how good Dorsey actually IS against the run, or whether he’s merely taking advantage of being 1-on-1 more often than everyone else.
Because that would lead me to believe that Bailey COULD (in theory) replace him sooner rather than later, which I would prefer.
If we splurged on a NT of ability (there are 3 very good NT’s who could hit FA), I’d be all for trading Dorsey just on the theory that he had the “easiest” job of the front 3.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I support the Bailey experiment.
I wanted Campbell, but he appears to be locked in AZ.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
Yeah Bailey looks really good...
…and if this season’s OTA’s and mini-camps do any good, he might be ready to hop right in there
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Yeah, that stinks
I have some hope for Bailey. A lot of improvement as the year went along, and he’s already a much better pass rusher than Dorsey (not saying much).
I just wish they’d let us see him even a FEW times in our base defense.
He’s got the frame and athleticism to add on weight without losing his freakish speed, too.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yup.
When it came down to not mattering anymore, I couldn’t believe we didn’t see Bailey/Powe/Hudson more. Gotta find out if the youngsters can ball.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
I think it was mainly because we were still in the race.
And the last game Crennel was still playing for a job.
Quite true.
Still, Kelly Gregg was worn down by the end of the season. You don’t even try Powe?
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
Yeah, Gregg had nothing left
Maybe Powe really was that bad, despite what I THOUGHT I saw in the preseason.
I assume we’ll know a lot more about Powe’s ability (at least in RAC’s opinion) by how hard we go after NT’s in FA (as well as the caliber).
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind writing off Powe if it meant we landed any of the big 3 (from NYJ, MIA, and SD)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Soliai or not at all.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Dude's legit
Sign him, bring back Carr, Berry returns…
If Houston and Bailey progress through the offseason at all I see a legit chance for a borderline top 5 defense in that scenario.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Agreed. With all of that.
I think Gordon and/or Bailey can take over for Dorsey… so trade him for another early-mid pick, 2nd or 3rd round. Maybe draft Messina to line up next to DJ.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Why would you set up your scheme
to get as many 1-on-1’s as possible on the guy that can’t beat a 1-on-1? Doesn’t make much sense to me.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Because if he can't beat a 1-on-1
He’s for damn sure not beating a 2-on-1
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Assumptions from his college days, I suppose.
The guy just isn’t a 3-4 DE. Wasn’t built to be one, doesn’t fit very well in our scheme as one. He was best at penetrating and trying to make plays, which put him out of position when he wasn’t able to do so. In our scheme, because he’s lined up next to Tamba, he’s supposed to take less risks and stay in his gap more often to cover for Tamba getting so far upfield.
It’s just not the ideal situation, and it’s unfortunate, because I like the guy a great deal.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
Haley was also ultra-careful about turnovers
I wonder how Cassel will look if he’s ‘unleashed’ by an OC who’s willing to gamble more often? My guess, not too good.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Or he'll look a bit more like New England.
Hard to tell. Only thing we do know is that he’s not the answer HERE.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
I guessing he'll look like a retarded Jack Russell
all hopped up on meth.
by SCKSChief on Jan 26, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
weis did the best job working with cassel
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Orton throws picks in bunches but still throws a small number of picks . But hes also a QB that you have to disguise your coverages well and if you do sometimes you can fool him and get one of those picks
But overall they still dont happen that often .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with this...
Another thing I think separates the two and make Orton the better option for us is his play action ability. I think he is light years ahead of cassel selling the PA pass.
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 26, 2012 1:19 PM CST up reply actions
and I think a good part of our Red Zone issues (ours!) have to do with the OLine
agree Orton isn’t a Rodgers or Brees or Brady, but he’s better (more often) than Cassel and that’s good enough for me (for now)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yay...strive for mediocrity!
I wonder if you are a plant for the Hunt family? I spend too much money on this team for “good enough”.
Kansas City Chiefs; Profitable Mediocrity since 1969.
If the Chiefs hire Josh McDaniels, I will cancel my season tickets -- phew!
by chai1836 on Jan 26, 2012 4:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Love your sig, chai.
That’s the Hunt’s philosophy period. At least you get it. :+)
Kansas City Chiefs; Profitable Mediocrity since 1969.
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
by LocoLoboChico on Jan 26, 2012 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Back at ya'
Wife and I are big time dog lovers too.
Kansas City Chiefs; Profitable Mediocrity since 1969.
If the Chiefs hire Josh McDaniels, I will cancel my season tickets -- phew!
someone did those highs vs highs and lows vs lows numbers before and I know I did the redzone numbers and Ortons numbers wee fine
Ortons redzone numbers and his offenses prooduction have actually been good not great but much better than Matts over the same period of time with a weaker supporting casts
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 1:22 PM CST up reply actions
U watch the Baltimore playoff game
Or the other games where cassel has 90 yards passing . He’s either “good” against non winning record teams , or Horrible against decent to good teams . He only beat one team with a winning record with the chiefs. Just like cassel Orton should be looked at what he did HERE as a chief . Witch is go 2-1 and beat the packers with barley any practice as a chief
by chiefsman! on Jan 26, 2012 1:22 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not supporting Matt here.
If I had to make a choice, I’d rather have Orton’s PA ability with JC in the backfield. I just don’t think either one is good enough.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
My mistake
And i agree . Neither is . What chiefs need is to do Is get aggressive and find a qb that is good enough before we waste valuable time with our younger stars ..
by chiefsman! on Jan 26, 2012 1:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
There's about 5 QB's in the league that are head and shoulders above the rest.
Hard to find one of those guys. Orton is on that 2nd tier somewhere. Cassel is on the 3rd.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Orton is perfect or great by any means
He gives us a better chance of winning than cassel :/ . Hopefully stanzi will come around or we find a QBOTF some time soon tho ..
by chiefsman! on Jan 26, 2012 1:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Disagree
Your analysis is off. Orton has a misconception of being turnover prone. When the fact is, his int/att are i believe maybe a little better than Cassel’s.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Did the numbers awhile back. I remember, mostly, because I made a mistake.
Cassel’s int rate is about 2% better than Orton’s.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
No.
Cassel’s is 2.5% and Orton’s is 2.6%. They’re virtually the same.
"Be an analyst. Don’t be a douchebag." - Terrell Suggs to Skip Bayless
But that's supposed to be Matt's strong point and Kyle's weak point.
That’s the argument that many make. Cassel is considered to take care of the football so well while Orton is going to throw a bunch of picks.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, and Orton goes down field more...
Only, he they have the same YPA.
It goes both ways.
Too many variables, not enough samples.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Plenty of samples...
And there are variables in the INT % as well.
Not variable-controlled samples.
Playing for different teams, against different teams, major dependence on team mates’ performance…..The NFL cannot be analyzed like MLB.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
You mean picks like
the one in the chargers game?? Driving for the win, in field goal range so TD wins or getting the FG to tie for OT is pretty much a given as long as Matty doesnt throw a pick kind of pick?
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
Talking about a different statistic :)
I’ll look up the old thread if work gives me time. Frickin work, don’t know why I bother coming here every day…. Oh, yeah, it’s because I like to eat.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Cassel has 1 more INT than Orton
You look up the numbers they are virtually the same in every apspect. furthest apart are wins and TDs with cassel leading both (believe it or not) by 6… still close.
Well, if we have an offensive option to lean on when Orton's having a bad day,
and a good defense to bail Orton out of mistakes, then I’d say Orton’s the way to go.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And that's fine, if that's the case.
But I’d also prefer to not choose between crap and a little better smelling crap.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
an upgrade is an upgrade...
what other realistic options are there?
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
Considering the overall lack of spending by the organization...
And two major key in-house FA’s, the $’s can be used much wiser elsewhere.
Even if we aren’t able to bid on a real improvement at QB, I’d rather use the money on our several areas of need than to bring back a 2nd mediocre starting QB.
Also, as I’ve said numerous times, bringing Orton and Cassel back means that we won’t take a shot on another QB, as we already have a #3 in Stanzi. If Orton or Cassel are the starter, you need to be drafting one regardless looking for a real answer and not a stopgap.
Realistic?
Who knows what could actually happen with trades and such. Pioli’s the only one who can make that happen. On the market right now? Nobody.
You have to keep throwing darts at the wall if you want to hit a bullseye, though. You can’t be satisfied with marginal, and that’s what we’ve done for years.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2012 2:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly my stance:
You can’t be satisfied with marginal, and that’s what we’ve done for years.
I truley believe that we can win get to and win the superbowl next year with Orton...
if we get healthy, keep carr and bowe, and have another solid draft…
Orton playing with our team can be a top 10 QB in this league…
BOOM!!!!!
you’re welcome for blowing your mind…
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
Orton as a top 10 QB...
Requires me getting my mind blown to see it. I’m trying to decide which drug could get me there.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
I stole a bag of powder from Aiken...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
I'd be hard pressed to name
10 QB’s that are clearly superior to Orton.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions
Going to try here.
Not necessarily to prove a point, but moreso because it would be a fun exercise. =)
Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Stafford, Eli, Peyton, Rivers, Roethlisberger, Schaub, Romo, Cutler, and maybe Vick. At least in my book.
I’d say at this juncture that he’s in a grouping with Cam Newton, Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Andy Dalton, and Alex Smith. Four of those guys are significantly younger than Orton.
Thoughts? Again, just creating discussion.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
You can try and argue he's in a grouping with Cam, Ryan, Flacco or Dalton
But every GM in the league would rather have those guys than Orton.
Alex Smith? Yeah, that’s fair. Especially after his 4th Q/OT performance last week.
Ability-wise, he is
Upside however is a different story
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Nah...
IMO, he doesn’t have near the ‘ability’ of Cam, Ryan or Flacco.
Dalton I suppose you could make the argument.
I think I meant more along the lines of "what will you get from the guy
so…productivity?
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Ryan and Flacco.
Both overrated in my book. I like them both and wouldn’t mind them in a Chiefs uniform. But I’ve seen Orton shred defenses better than those two.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 2:57 PM CST up reply actions
Flacco may have been the best QB that played last Sunday.
He should be in the SB right now.
Ryan I will agree is overrated somewhat…and with that, he’s still better than Orton any way you dice it.
But you can't honestly
think he’s a better QB than Brady… big deal he facilitated ONE game. He’s still just as bad as Cassel
Wait, Flacco is as bad as Cassel?!
Are you shitting me? No freaking chance. He has a great arm for starters and can actually go down field.
Wow…that took me back. there are people that believe this?
Lots of people saw that Christmas Eve game against Cleveland.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
quit over-reacting
Flacco’s important stats
2008: 14 TD 12 INT 6 FUM
2009: 21 TD 12 INT 6 FUM
2010: 25 TD 10 INT 7 FUM
2011: 20TD 12 INT 9 FUM
Don’t know about you..but having a “big” arm doesn’t make you good. His numbers are awful.
Both have career mid 80's passer ratings too
so yeah… Flacco is just as bad as Cassel.
QB Rating
86 vs. 82.5
Most important stat YPA 7.1 vs. 6.6 (before you say there isn’t a difference…there is). That’s over 13% better.
Flacco’s TD/INT is better, but I agree its fairly close. Want to know what’s not close?
Flacco’s is 44-20 with 5 playoff wins in 4 seasons.
Cassel is 28-26 with obv 0 playoff wins.
Yes, Flacco has the far superior D, but he has also has shown the ability like last week to make big plays and win big games. What is the stat I heard last week…something like Cassel has one win against a team with a winning record as Chiefs QB?
Not just a far superior D...probably the best defensive group in the history of the NFL
You about passed out when I suggested Flacco is as bad as Cassel…no looking it it..they’re pretty similar.
No, they aren't
For the reasons in the above post.
And c’mon, the best defensive group in the history of the NFL?
Maybe the 2000 Ravens, not the Flacco Ravens.
Every stat is "fairly close" exept
for the team wins… which is a team stat, not QB stat.
Had the best game?
He played pretty well, I would prefer him to Ryan. Still don’t think either are clearly superior to Orton.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
You don't have too
But the NFL as a whole does.
That was kind of my point with the "significantly younger" part.
Hell, I’d certainly rather have those guys.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
I'm all about discussion.
And, generally, i agree with your list. Honestly, Orton impresses me more than Ryan, Flacco, (haven’t seen enough of Dalton, but for experience sake), and Alex Smith. I’d take me some Cam Newton though.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 2:55 PM CST up reply actions
Let me try
Rodgers
Brees
Brady
Manning (contingent on being healthy)
Manning the younger
Roethlisberger
Rivers
Schaub
Romo (possibly debatable)
Stafford
to be fair, I did have to do a little thinking.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
I'd take Romo off that list.
I’m talking clearly better. I can’t put Peyton on the list because his status is unknown. I’d say Rogers, Brees, Brady, Eli, Ben, Schaub, Rivers and Stafford are better. Other than that, its a wash.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
I don't think I can disagree with that too much
I still think Romo’s better than Orton, but clearly better…I’m not so sure.
And yeah, Peypey being better is completely contingent on what the deal with his neck is.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Like Cassel, Orton is a guy who needs a lot around him to succeed
but with those pieces, he’s probably a much better QB than Cassel
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Disagree
Orton, unlike Cassel, has succeeded in spite of his surrounding pieces. Put up good numbers with B. Lloyd as his number 1, bad running game and a bad defense.
Fire Scott Pioli + hire Captain Hindsight = Superbowl.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 26, 2012 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
Why not try it
Think of your top 10 QBs in the leage this year and then once you have your list try to fathom if Orton could (with the weapons KC has) nudge just one guy off that list. I think he could
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
I dont.
I don’t think he could nudge the 15th guy off my list.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I just can't make myself get on board
With the idea that one TD in 3 games = an upgrade…from Palko it is…that’s about it.
I don't
It’s wasting more time and money on the wrong guy. some of you guys support that and that’s your choice but I see absolutely no sense in switching out the two… none
I don’t like the idea of shelling a bunch of $ out to Manning when his playing days are numbered but between Manning and Orton? Manning all the way but honestly they need to be looking and at the draft this year or next but that’s where we need to find Cassel’s replacement.
Orton, Manning ect… are just band aids. a good year or two to go right back to the basement won’t make me feel much better than I do right now.
I don't know Kalo - Orton has certainly made some boneheaded plays...
but I don’t know how many sub 100 yard games I’ve seen him put up and I feel like I’ve seen Cassel crap out several – including that blistering 70 yard, 0 td, 3 int bucket of diarrhea that we call last year’s playoff game.
I count 6 non-preseason games with KC that Cassel has shat out less than 100 yards passing, and that, to me is just un-fucking-acceptable.
Orton has some bad games (every QB does) – but Cassel’s bad games are baaaaaaaaaad.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 26, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
A very reasonable point.
Again, though: I’d prefer neither.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
by KaloPhoenix on Jan 26, 2012 4:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly.
People keep arguing Orton over Cassel…
They just keep failing to take the leap past Orton to an actual good QB.
Cassel is not elite. Orton is not elite.
Neither one has the potential (imo) to become elite as the Chiefs QB.
We’ve went 29 years without taking a shot at a 1st round QB that has the potential to become elite.
It’s well past time to stop ignoring the most important position on the offense.
If we’re going to switch QB’s in 2012, let’s switch to someone that has the chance to become the long term solution, and NOT settle for another mid-tiered band-aid.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They just keep failing to take the leap past Orton to an actual good QB.
The problem is availability. What do you do if Manning retires or goes elsewhere and Luck/RG3 go 1-2?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I move up to #2 to take RG3.
baring that
After that… I keep Cassel, and play Stanzi and try to develop him.
Orton is a waste of time and money. He’s no more elite than Cassel, and never will be. Giving him a long term contract is a complete waste of the fans time, and the Chiefs money. At the very least.. Stanzi has potential to maybe someday become elite (like a long shot lottery ticket) … orton doesn’t even have that.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I don't believe we'll be in a position to get Barkley
Even losing our 2 best players and another extremely valuable player, and having to play several rookies significant time, we still aren’t in a good position to land a top QB.
Odds are he’ll be the #1 pick. With Houston and Bailey continuing their development as well as the return of our best players, I don’t see any way we’re somehow CLOSER to getting the top QB than we are this year.
This really would be the year to do it if we’re going to.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
A fair assessment
I’d be thrilled at a move to get RG3.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Wait it out till next year.
People are dreaming if they think Orton will make a significant difference over Cassel.
Their stats SCREAM this different strengths and weaknesses but when packaged together…virtually the same results.
WAKE UP people!!! Seriously…. I thought we were tired of mediocre.
Actually it doesnt Ive already posted the numbers showing that Ortons offenses have been consistently better even without all the weapons Matt has had
Its like saying 2 guys get the same race results expect one is driving a ford focus and one is driving a Shelby GT500.
Why would you not think the guy driving the Focus could produce better results if given a chance to drive the Shelby ?
by Willie Beamon on Jan 28, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
That doesn't mean Orton was better.
If his offenses had better results but he scored less points and won fewer games while starting more games how does that point to HIM being better?
All I can say is I’ll laugh my butt off (in between crying fits) if they do it and you see that we’re not one bit better off.
But for arguments sake let’s say he is slightly better… Let’s say we win a few more games. Let’s say we begin to consistently make the playoffs. do you think Orton will take us all the way?
I sure don’t. If he doesn’t but can take us to post season consistently how hard do you think the Chiefs will be searching for the REAL QOF?
It does because the Qbs job is to lead the offense to success not just pad his own individual numbers
You claimed they produce the same results but they dont each guys offense has been very different with Matt having a huge edge in surrounding talent and backing.
So how is it that somehow Orton could be surrounded by inferior talent to Matt get equal or better results yet somehow it doesnt mean that Orton was better ?
Matts record is 28-26 and Ortons is 35-34
Going all the way is not a product of ONE guy the pats and Giants are not in the SB because Manning and Brady single-handedly took them there.
If we consistently make the playoffs ANYTHING can happen thats the nature of the playoffs but first youve got to get here before you can say for certain what a person cant do in that situation .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 29, 2012 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
and we're never going to get there behind mediocre QB play
Cassel is 24-21 in games he’s started.
Orton is 35-34 in games he’s started.
[It’s] the Qbs job to lead the offense to success, not just pad his own numbers
And Orton sucks at that job just as much as Cassel does
You keep talking about talent around these guys and claiming how much more talent Cassel has had to work with and Orton. First off, i don’t agree with that. If you look at just WR’s that’s arguable, but if you look at the overall team, lineman, defense, rb’s, te’s etc…. I don’t believe that statement to be true.
Neither of them has ever had a team chock full of talent. They’ve both played for teams that have huge holes. It’s not like Cassel has QB’s behind a hall of fame offensive line and running game for the Chiefs, while Orton played with a pee wee league team.
Teams that consistently make the playoffs do so behind consistently good QB play. I’m sure you can find an exception to that if you look for one (Mark Sanchez with one of the best defenses in football for instance)…but over all… it’s the truth.
Consistent winning starts with consistently good QB play. Kyle Orton doesn’t fit that bill.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
the error in your thinking is that you keep implying is that the only GOOD qbs are ELITE
ELITE and Good are two different things and you can win a title with either
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
The err in your thinking is to believe that orton is eitehr GOOD or ELITE.... he isn't
He’s mediocre, just like Cassel.
And always will be.
A semi-soft pile of dog shit on the rug is BETTER than a liquid pile of dog shit on the rug in the same way that Orton is better than Cassel.
It may be TRUE that one is actually better… but at the end of the day, you’ll be cleaning shit off the rug either way.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope again thats your basically deflecting and because you are just pulling crap out of thin air your claims dont add up .
Ive never said Orton was elite because Elite Qbs are HOF qbs
Youre so intent on making the anti Orton argument for some reason that youve basically twisted your own logic to the point you dont know whats up or down .
Brady,Rodgers,Brees,Big Ben,P.Manning when healthy and now Eli if he wins will certainly move into that category as well and still has a shot if he doesnt as long as he plays well.
By your your childish logic anyone who is not one of those Qbs is medicore and dog poop ? because you equate good and Elite to mean the same thing.
Those Qbs I listed are the only true Elite Qbs in the league and then there is a large group of good qbs behind who move up and down that list based on what they are surrounded with.
Your claims that good =elite and that anything not in that category is mediocre is ridiculous and if you tried to apply to every single starter in the league it would fall apart because it .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 28, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
My logic makes perfect sense
It’s your continual denial of the facts that is childish.
Career Numbers tell the story. Cassel and Orton are BOTH mediocre QB’s.
At NO TIME… did I ever say that Elite=Good… never… not one time…. ever.
YOU said that… and then attributed it to me…. and then argued against it. Otherwise known as a straw man argument.
I said that Orton is neither GOOD or ELITE… he’s mediocre.
I could post the definition of mediocre for you, but I don’t even want to waste the time. I’ll just sum up… Mediocre is … (as the word would suggest)… in the MIDDLE. Not good, and not elite. just in the middle.
32 NFL teams… the middle is about 13-19th ranked. That’s mediocre. It’s not terrible, but it’s certainly not good. The top 5 or 6 guys are the ones I’d call elite. The next 6 or 7 are good.. then come the mediocre.
Perennially mediocre QB are guys that consistently finish in the middle of the pack. They lead the team just well enough to keep you on the outside looking in year after year. That’s what Cassel and Orton have been for their entire careers. You can argue that Orton is slightly better than Cassel all you want, but that doesn’t change the fact they they are BOTH mediocre QB’s.
Toss all the sabermetrics around that you’d like. Make all the same excuses for Orton (not enough talent around him, no consistency in coaching, the scheme doens’t play to his strengths, his offensive line wasn’t very good, he never had a real running game to help him…etc…etc…etc…) you’d like to make. I’ll just continue to point out that those are the SAME excuses that people have been making for Matt Cassel for his entire time KC. (I know, cause I’m one of the people that have been making those statements)
BOTH Cassel and Orton are mediocre QB’s that aren’t likely to make some giant leap foreward into elite, and are very vey unlikely to take any more steps forward (both are 30 year old guys that have been in the league for years) to become good. These 2 aren’t top 10 material, and never will be.
Once again… at NO TIME did I ever say the Elite=Good… You’ve made thqat connection on your own and attributed it to me. I said that Orton will never be elite OR good, and that the Chiefs need to stop pissing away thier time continually settling for mediocre year after year just because it’s a ‘different’ guy that MIGHT be slightly better than we have.
Screw ‘slightly better’ ….. I wan’t the potential for greatness. And if we have to spend draft picks and a 24 games to develop them… FINE.. I’m good with that.
Signing Orton would just be settling for mediocre AGAIN. We’ll make excuses for him (just like we have for Cassel) for the next 3 years and waiting even longer before we actually get our heads out of our asses and take a 1st round talent QB to develop.
I don’t understand how ANY Chiefs fan can be pissed off or disappointed about how mediocre Cassel is…and in the next breath argue in FAVOR of signing a guy who’s career numbers are just as mediocre, if not slightly worse… than Cassel’s. Time you make up our minds… either continue to settle for mediocre, or stop bitching about having crappy offense.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 29, 2012 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Thats what youve implied several times in nearly every topic you post in Good= elite
They just keep failing to take the leap past Orton to an actual good QB.
Cassel is not elite. Orton is not elite.
Thats what youve been claiming and its EPIC-Fail
Orton for all your talk of mediocre spent the majority of the 2009 and 2010 in the top ten in QB play .
In 2010 he was in the top ten and finished 15th after missing the last 3 games but for most of those 13 games he was in the top ten whether you want to ignore it or not its the truth
The same applies for 2009 where he finished 14th and when you consider what separates even in 2011 7/8 with 12/13 its completely foolish to be making these declarations
In no way does finishing in the top 15 and throwing back to back for nearly 400 mean you suck which is what youve been saying
Saying that Orton could never post a 90 QBR and throw 21 tds and 4000 yards is stupid because its not that big of a leap and thats what Big Ben posted this year to finish exactly tenth
as Ive said youve posted a lot of nonsense and now you are backtracking . Ive seen you say flatout that Orton sucks now you want to try and spin mediocre to deflect away from that
Stanzi has the potential in your mind to be Elite but Orton cant EVER even be good despite actually spending a good portion of 2 NFL seasons in the top ten ? lol …..whatever you know what you are saying is ridiculous
by Willie Beamon on Jan 29, 2012 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
in 2010 he played 3 fucking games. Really...
You’re going to use a 3 game season as a measuring stick and ignore his ENTIRE career before that?
Kyle Orton is a mediocre QB. He’s always been a mediocre QB. He’s 30 fucking years old.. and isn’t going to magically turn into a good QB a great quarterback, or an elite quarterback.
The same applies for 2009 where he finished 14th
the middle is about 13-19th ranked. That’s mediocre. It’s not terrible, but it’s certainly not good
Hmm, that seems to be EXACTLY WHAT I SAID… Mediocre.
Saying that Orton could never post a 90 QBR and throw 21 tds and 4000 yards is stupid
You’re right. I’m glad I never said that. Once again, you are producing your own straw man argument to attribute to me.
as Ive said youve posted a lot of nonsense and now you are backtracking . Ive seen you say flatout that Orton sucks now you want to try and spin mediocre to deflect away from that
Kyle orton (as well as Matt Cassel) suck… they suck BECAUSE they are mediocre. Does that help you? The Chiefs need to stop settling for QB’s that will never be any better than mediocre. Having 2 medicore QB’s is the same thing as not having a QB at all. THey BOTH suck… don’t forget that.. Ive said they BOTH suck all along.. not just Orton. You don’t seem to have any problem with that assessment of Cassel. Even though they are the SAME kind of suckage for their entire careers.
I’ll admit that I have used the term “sucks” in emphatic statements to make a point. But my description of their QB skills and stats has been consistently.. Mediocre… It’s YOU that keeps insisting that Kyle Orton is somehow more than that. He isn’t. He’s mediocre. He may be a teeny bit better than Cassel (although career stats say the opposite is true) … but that’s neither here, nor there.
Orton sucks BECAUSE he’s never going to be more than mediocre. Cassel SUCKS because he’s never going to be more than mediocre, and the Chiefs fans deserve better than to settle for mediocre for yeat another 30 years.
Stanzi has never started an NFL in his life. That means he still has potential. It means that no one KNOWS what he’s going to be. He’s got potential. … Kyle Orton is approaching 30 years old and has played for multiple teams and has never been any more than mediocre. He’s tilted his cards and shown everyone his hand. The guy’s potential is much less, because we’ve already seen his game. The chances of a career long medioce QB SUDDENLY becoming more than that are LESS than the chances of a guy that isn’t a known commodity 8 years into his failed career.
whatever you know what you are saying is ridiculous
Right back at you man. It’s called denial. You’ve looked at Ortons career numbers on a whole, and nothing but mediocre shows up. So, you start dissecting those numbers and breaking them down into pieces in a desperate attempt to find something positive.
I get it, I’m a Chiefs fan too. I’d like to think Orton is the solution that can fix the QB problem. It would give me a warm fuzzy to believe that as well. But, It’s not true. Kyle Orton is mediocre QB, just like Matt Cassel. Neither one of them are the answer. They both suck.
This team is not moving forward until they get serious about addressing the QB situation, and Kyle Orton is not going to suddenly springboard from mediocre to more than that this far into his career. Giving him a multi-year contract is a complete waste of the fans and teams time. It WILL fail.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
**2011, not 2010
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
and no, that's NOT what I've implied.
I’ve implied that the Chiefs need to take a risk and try to find that ELITE QB of their own.
I’ve flat out said it, rather than imply it.
Good is NOT the same thing as ELite.. and I’ve never implied that. Not once.
There is a difference between wanting a guy that IS elite, and one that has the POTENTIAL to be elite….
Kyle Orton is neither of those things. He’s a career long mediocre QB, just like Cassel. Neither one is elite, or great, or even good. They are mediocre. It’s what they have always been, and it’s what they will always be.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
read that line of mine that you quoted
“to an actual good QB” [period, end of sentence, end of thought.]
Cassel is not elite [new sentence, new thought] Orton is not elite [new sentence, new thought]
and now lets look at the very next line that you left out of that quote
“Neither one has the potential to become elite (imo) as the Chiefs QB.”
and the next line:
“We’ve went 29 years without taking a 1st round QB that has the potential to become elite”
and all those lines came as a reply to Kalo saying
Again, though: I’d prefer neither.
I have NEVER EVER EVER suggested that good=elite. Not one time.
I have made the consistent argument that Cassel and Orton are mediocre.
I HAVE however referred to their career long mediocre play as both dog shit, and suck…. Because that’s how I feel about mediocre play from the QB.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
This really shouldnt be about Pioli it should be about Romeo and who he wants . Every new coach without a HOF or a 1st rd QB gets to bring in there guy
If there ever was a opportunity to make a smooth transition and end the Cassel era now would be it .
Its as simple as Romeo is the new coach and wants to bring in his own guy and he wants to build upon the success he had with Orton at the end of the season.
Orton is not Romeo's guy.
Orton is a guy Pioli and Haley brought in because he was the best thing available as a stop gap that the Chiefs could use to try and stop the bleeding after Cassel went down injured.
The move to grab orton was a desperate attempt to cling to a play off berth in a very weak division.
He’s not ’Romeo’s Guy’ … he was just the most highly polished turd that happened to be available that week.
The Chiefs seem to do all their QB shopping down at Vinny’s House of High Milage Cars Quarterbacks. It hasn’t worked a single time in the last 29 years. So maybe, just maybe, the team needs to re-evaluate the method by which they continually attempt to solve the QB position. The fans should be demanding that we shop for a NEW car, and only consider those with the highest of J.D. Power & Associates rankings…. instead of just taking the bus back down to Vinny’s to pick up another broken down high millage daily driver that Vinny assures us was owned by a little old lady that only used it to drive to church and the grocery store.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Crazy isn't it?
Some folks complain of medioctity only to want it replaced with more medioctity.
"We couldn't beat the Chiefs, but we damn near killed their horse"
John Madden 1975 Chiefs-42 Raiders-10
by Chiefs_40 on Jan 26, 2012 5:23 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
the whole manning thing is like this
i’m going to buy a brand new tire from you, the only thing is the tire is only going to last for one year. But that tire is going to be one hell of a ride, a super bowl run.
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 5:31 PM CST up reply actions
He's an Indycar tire
yes, pun intended
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
by jmcgoblue on Jan 26, 2012 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
In Mannings case...
You aren’t buying a brand new tire from em at all.
I’m offering you a tire with 50,000 miles on it, that had 3 rail road spikes sticking through it last week.
I’ve gone ahead and patched the holes with rubber cement, hopes, and prayers…. but I’m not even going to offer you a warranty.
It MIGHT last you a year. Then again those plugs might burst the second you lower the car down off the jack.
Start doing some research on fused neck vertebrae…. Find ANY example of a doctor that thinks it’s a good idea to play professional football after having 3 of those surgical procedures. Manning needs to retire.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
well it will be the best tire we had since green or montana
if healthy manning needs to be in kc
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
unless it bursts at the seems going around the first corner.
Which is the most likely outcome.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
write it into his contract
He doesn’t play a full season we’re off the hook for that amount of money. Pro-rated. Can’t be that much of a stretch. How many games did the guy start in a row?
Find me one NFL agent that would accept a medical writer in the players contract.
The whole point of having guaranteed money in a contract (which is most often paid up front in the form of bonuses spread over the lenght of the contract.. like his $28 mil due in March)… is that NFL contracts aren’t a typical contract.
The player is held to the terms of their deal, while the club has the right to terminate the contract at any time. The players want guaranteed dollars in their contracts specifically because the NFL is a dangerous sport where a seanon or career ending injury can happen on any play.
The contract gives the players a little bit of peace of mind in knowing that even if they are injured, the club can’t just toss them away and go get the next guy. They will still earn at least a portion of their money reguardless of injury.
You’re suggesting that Peyton (knowing his has a higher risk of injury) would sign a deal with another team (thereby letting Indy off the hook for the remaining guaranteed dollars in his contract) and forego guarenteed dollars in his Chiefs contract to protect him from loss of income due to an injury that is caused by the very game he’s signing a contract to play?
Do you really believe anyone would sign that contract? If they would, why wouldn’t that be a standard term in EVERY contract. … Hey Jamaal, DJ, Hali… we’re going to give you all huge new deal… but we’re writing into them that if you get hurt… we don’t have to pay you the money….
Pipe dream.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 27, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
My point is that if Romeo wants Orton to be his guy he should have the chance to get him just as most new coaches have the chance top choose there Qbs .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:33 PM CST up reply actions
No head coach in the NFl wants Orton to be "their guy"
There might be a few willing to settle for him… if the team wont take the steps necessary to get better.
But no one that sets the bar at “mediocre” gets offered a job as a head coach in the NFL.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
lol now you are speaking for every head coach in the league . Again youve basically admitted you dont like the guy so basically Ill have to take any response on the matter with a grain of salt
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 6:17 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, you're right
NFL coaches are lining up to hitch their wagon to a 32 year old quarterback with a career 79.5 passer rating.
I know if I was a head coach, and was given the choice of taking a highly regarded rookie in the draft OR pinning my career on the arm of a 32 year old that had never been more than mediocre in their entire NFL career… I’d be calling for Orton.
You’ve basically admitted that you have a man crush on Kyle Orton. No one else would actually argue that Kyle Orton would be the FIRST CHOICE of a new head coach that was looking for “their guy” ….
Kyle Orton is not the first choice of any NFL head coach in the league. I can say that with complete confidence without actually speaking to a single head coach in the league. If we sat down at a table with all 32 NFL coaches… and asked them to name who they would want “their guy” at QB to be…. not one single one of them would say the name Kyle Orton as their first choice. Not one…
To even suggest that statement is untrue, is to delude yourself.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Just for accuracy's sake - Orton is 29, not 32
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
Yep, yer right.
My basic math skills were failing to function through the cloud of strait bourbon
Born in ’82… somehow I came up with 10 years from 80 -90 + 10 years from 90-00 + 10 years from 00-10 + 2 years to get from 2010 to 2012.
I seem to have forgotten to subtract the 2 off the back side from the ’82. oops.
a 30 year old QB (in November) …. with a career 79.5 rating.
Thanks for the correction.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
it has nothing to do with accuracy its about getting the message out lol
by Willie Beamon on Jan 28, 2012 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
And yet i acknowledged my error a full 2 days before you made that comment.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 29, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Would that be the Romeo that says
Yes I think we can win with Cassel we have won with Cassel….that Romeo?
Sigh
The most important position in sports, and fans of my favourite sports team are debating Matt Freaking Cassel vs Kyle Freaking Orton.
by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2012 1:21 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Would baseless speculation regarding Peyton Freaking Manning suit you better?
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
It's not the discussion what makes me sad.
It’s the content. Would you rather have syphillys or ghonorea?
by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2012 1:23 PM CST up reply actions
Who am I getting them from: Cassel, Orton, or Manning?
=)
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
If I could get a healthy Peyton Manning for 4 years and a SB victory.
I’ll voluntarily contract a treatable STD.
by craig in calgary on Jan 26, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
I'd give you the phone numbers of a few women that you could aquire said disease from
Hmm, wait a minute.
I think I just insulted myself.
For the record, I’m disease free…. but spent 10 years as an owner/partner of a night club.
What I MENT was that…. I could put you into contact with several women that used to go home with multiple different guys on a regular monthly basis, over the course of years.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
It'll cost $5 to watch
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 26, 2012 5:26 PM CST up reply actions
Cassel reminds me more of Herpes...because I don't think he's ever going to go away.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Are you completely ignorant?
the clap or syphillys? Geez, you need a keeper if you don’t know the difference between a drip that can be cured in a few days and a disease that is responsible for the majority of people who are in insane institutions.
Or, maybe you need a keeper if you actually ARE that familiar with those diseases.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
by Brsrkr on Jan 26, 2012 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It's almost like he hasn't spent his time studying different STD's and their effects
What a weirdo.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yes, it would.
I’m on the Peyton/Chiefs Super Bowl wagon (assuming he becomes available and can survive a full season while playing at the level he has in the past).
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 26, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know dude....
I’m afraid Peyton’s head might literally fall off.
Headless Manning>Two-Headed Cassel
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
would explain a lot of his confusion, no?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Might make it easier for him to get his hat on. Better odds.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
yesh!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Sound logic
I can’t find a way to disagree
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
I love that video clip with the hat
I can completely hear whats going through his head at that moment, the game going that badly and going to put your hat on and it falls off behind you, and you think, “I don’t even care anymore.”
There isn't a single think that any doctor could say that would every put in a position to make this assumption.
assuming he becomes available and can survive a full season
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Any starting position in bball is more important than QB
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
SICK OF QB MEDIOCRITY!
Matt Cassel
Tyler Palko
Kyle Orton
Brodie Croyle
Tyler Thigpen
Damon Huard
Elvis Grbac
Rich Gannon
Steve Bono
Only decent QB post Montana has been Trent Green.
DISGUSTING
by Brad-KC on Jan 26, 2012 1:29 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
u forgot our last first rd pick todd blackledge
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Cheerleading coach?
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
The thing about this whole Cassel/Orton thing is this.
Cassel has been with this team for three full seasons. He is only marginally better than he was when he got here. Orton was with the team for two weeks, took a leadership role, and would ( I am sure 0 only get better with time. Sooooooo if I were faced with the choice of mediocre quarterback with so so leadership skills or a mediocre quarterback who is growing and improving I would go with Orton every time.
"The Hammer"
yep plenty of time to perfect the timing issues....and still....no real improvement
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
but guys he's been under a new OC every year!!!
give me a break Cassel is bad.
that's true ... hey it only took 7 years for Alex Smith to break out, right?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Fixed.
that’s true … hey it only took7 yearsJim Harbaugh for Alex Smith to break out, right?
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
so what are the chances Harbaugh comes to KC? ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
well, there ya go
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
btw, have you seen ...
interseting stuff …
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
i agree and orton still young i believe 29
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
As far as leadership
Cassel was fine. I’d need to see some scoring or more games before I’d even think of advocating Orton over Cassel.
Schaub over Cassel (just an example folks) ? heck yeah but not Orton.
The question is what will the fans do about Matt Cassel being the starter even though we know he is incapable of winning. Personally I will not go to the game or watch a game until Cassel is gone because this proves the chiefs do not care about winning a super bowl. I think this is the only way for the fans to change this. Will we do it?
why not sign orton have open competition for the job he will beat cassel
U could get a third rd pick for orton maybe a second if u signed and trade him when peyton manning gets here
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
How about sign Peyton
AND Orton, and ditch Cassel?
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
Because Peyton is under contract
to the Colts, and may never be healthy enough to take another snap in the NFL.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Colts will cut Peyton
IMHO, and if he is cleared to play, then we should get him.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
There isn't a team in the NFL that's giving up a 3rd pick for Orton, yet alone a 2nd.
Unless you mean their 3rd pick of the 5th round.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
u could get a thrid rd for orton, the guy would start right now on about 10 teams in the league
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
third
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 5:35 PM CST up reply actions
If we can get a 3rd round pick for Orton.. then sign him right now to a 6 months contract. Hold him til FA, and trade him for that 3rd.
Never gonna happen
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
done deal
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 6:19 PM CST up reply actions
Bringing Payton Manning in would solve all this crap... But if i had to choose Cassel VS Orton
It would be Orton all Day, hands down, Period!! It doesn’t take much to realize that Orton is better in every department of being a professional QB. Cassel had 3 games that he did better than Orton. Only difference is Cassel has had three season and Orton has had 3 games..
" The world is Yours"
Truthfully
I don’t ever buy any of this stuff. I’ve gone on record saying I respect Cassel for how hard he plays, but I don’t think he’s good enough.
However, I’ll take him over Orton if those are my only choices. The reason being he won’t lose the game and he’s better in the red zone. With our defense becoming a legit force, I would rather take my chances with Cassel than watch Orton throw two horrible picks that cost us a game.
We're the same team as last year, except incredibly better, and with new players.
I think there are some things to like about Cassel.
He seems to be a hard worker, a pretty good leader, problem is that he just is not talented enough.
Some people have all the talent in the world and don’t make it because they lack some of his skills.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Orton doesnt throw a lot of picks and Matt is not better in the redzone . I know its a cool thing to say but statistically its simply not true .
If you compare the numbers from 2008 til now for both players its very clear .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Orton's Report Card = F+
Why would I want my team to be led by either of them?
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Wait a minute..
wasnt that Cassel who shit all over himself in our playoff game against the Ravens. I’m thinking 2-3 picks and a fumble. Maybe I got “all wrong”.
by KCfosho on Jan 26, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Who gives a shit how hard you play if you have no talent?
They don’t give bonus points for effort
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
+ Moxey, Hutzbah
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Of course the team wants Orton.
They can see that it is a better QB in practice and during games. Players don’t care who the coaches and management think the best players are on the team, they can see it themselves.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
meanwhile, back at SB Nation HQ
Joel: Man playoff weeks are slow when your team is out of it. Nobody is talking on AP!
Chris: Hey fire up a Cassel vs Orton thread!
Joel: Bingo!
by fongKC on Jan 26, 2012 1:48 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
zing!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Pure genius.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Real Genius.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
we can't win with either of these QB's
by kcchiefs2782 on Jan 26, 2012 1:50 PM CST via Android app reply actions
Well we have won with both, but not the ultimate goal. I have to say though out of the 3 games orton played we beat
an undefeated team and was top pick to be champs at the time, and a Broncos team that all they had to do was win and they we in mentality. The only loss was to Oakland and they had to block 2 feild goals(which still blows my mind how that can happen) to do that in OT.. I know its a small sample size but i think we can will with orton and to be far after three games of watching cassel i could see we couldnt win with him..IMO
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 1:55 PM CST up reply actions
Kyle Orton beat two playoff teams in three games this year
How many playoff teams has Cassel beaten in the last two years with us? Throw out 2009, because the team was awful then. Is it just the Seahawks?
Including 2009
1. The Seahawks.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Because our D kicked ass...
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Which, to be fair, was aided by our offense staying on the field longer
And providing better field position with fewer 3 and outs.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Oh, no doubt about it
But, our two wins (and almost the third) was not exactly due to Orton lighting it up, so to speak. He played decent…and our Defense played great.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
We were not designing a game plan intent on Orton lighting it up but instead was comprising a gameplan for us to win the game with Orton having limited practice
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
In terms of points scored, Orton was not exactly lighting
things up. In terms of moving the ball, Orton was doing a way better job than Matt Cassel has been able to do. Three and out is no way to win ball games as Cassel has proven. Orton moving the ball and retaining possession at least gives us the opportunity to win.
"The Hammer"
The plan is wait to see if Peyton is released next week
If not, aggressively pursue resigning Orton…
by CHIEFFAN82 on Jan 26, 2012 1:53 PM CST via mobile reply actions
You can bet
IF they will release him, it will be before:
a. the draft
b. his 28 mil he is owed.
I could still see them keeping him, though that seems to be becoming less likely.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Right.
I believe they owe him 28 mil somewhere around March 8th. Let’s see what happens then.
Until then, Peyton to KC is fantasy.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Yeah, that was my point
They will wait until closer to the deadline, if not the deadline itself.
Good thing is
That is before FA starts, and before the draft, so we can call Peyton up, feed him some good old KC Barbecue, let him talk to some of our boys like fellow Vol Eric Berry, and woo him to our team…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:18 PM CST up reply actions
and then he can get hit on the first play of the first preseason game... his head can roll over to the sideline, and we have no QB again.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I think there about 10 teams orton could be the starting qb at
kc, oakland, arizona, seattle, miami, cleveland, buffalo, redskins, tampa bay, and denver
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
Oh, then by all means.. lets go sign him.
If he ca assure us finishing in the bottom 3rd of the league.. what are we waiting for.
I’ve been saying for YEARS how much I wish my team would sign a QB that can lead the team to an early season exit consistently for the next 10 years.
oh, wait… no I haven’t.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
i didn't say that i said he could start for them, orton got weapons in kc and is better than cassel
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
My issue with Cassel
is we just don’t know what he is. He had a great year in NE, bad year here, good year here, bad year here. He had some amazing games in NE but he was also throwing to Moss and Welker. He has had some hideous games here. We don’t know how much of that is because of Haley, the OC merry-go-round, the O-Line, and no JC this year. We’ve seen him have some good games here, not great but good. He’s rarely thrown over 250 yards. It would be interesting to see what he can do without Haley and the mess he made of the offense.
With that said, I still think he is just a servicable QB and we need to improve. I also think Orton is much better.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
At this point, what do Chiefs fan consider success
Win a Playoff game
Win a Super Bowl
IMO, at this point, success is a playoff win
Next step after that is maybe a berth in the conference championship, but I’d probably be disappointed if it wasn’t a Super bowl berth.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
Score a touchdown? Lol.......;>}
"The Hammer"
by G.L. on Jan 26, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Super Bowl... No doubt
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Depends who you ask and thats part of the problem
It’s hard to talk about what the team needs to do to be successful if everyone has a different definition of success.
There shouldnt ever be a different definition for success in the NFL... Super BOwl Champs should be on all teams successful season walls.
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
So if I could give you a Chiefs team that goes to the payoffs almost every year
is competitive, wins a couple AFC championships, but never wins in the big game, you’d pass?
Nope i would love ever second, but i wouldnt consider it a success until we were Champs..
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think being AFC champs is a pretty successful year
Is it the #1 spot, nope but it would so exciting to see us in the super bowl…just typing that gives me tingles,
One of those years we'd have to luck into playing a team like the Broncos in the 1st round
so I’d say at least 1 trip to t he divisional round in that scenario, maybe 2.
"Whenever I walk, people try to hand me out flyers. And when someone tries to hand me out a flyer, it’s kinda like they’re saying, ‘Here—you throw this away.’"
-Mitch Hedberg
At this point i want a playoff win
That will make me happy for now, end goal is always a SB though.
I remember watching our last playoff win against the Houston Oilers in 1993, had you told me then we would go 17 years without a playoff win I would have thought you were crazy.
Frankly, it’s been bad here. Since our last playoff win there have have been 12 different SB Champions, 22 different teams have played in the SB. Since our last playoff win the Broncos have won multiple SB’s. Raiders and Chargers have both been to the SB, the Seahawks who were also in our division went to the SB. We are one of the only teams without a playoff victory in that time frame. We had the #1 offense multiple times and couldn’t win a playoff game. We have had homefield advantage at least two of the times we went 13-3. We have been in the playoffs only 6 of the 18 years (1994, 1995, 1997, 2003, 2006, 2010) since 1993.
Since 1993 we have had 6 head coaches and 9 starting QB’s. There is something clearly wrong with this team. I love it, i will always be a Chiefs fan but this franchise is nearly the joke of a franchise we think of the Bengals, the old Bucs, and the current Browns. We’ve occasionally stumbled on a winning season but otherwise it’s been heartbreak and some historically bad football (defenses through Vermiel, the numerous bad records Edwards/Haley set like worst losses in history, most losses by 30 or whatever, worst point differential). I seriously question whether or not the ownership and management of this team want to win or are capable of it.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
Your rundown of our rivals' success gave me a piercing headache behind my left eye.
I think what we’ve seen is the result of imbalanced teams. First Marty’s defensive juggernaughts, then Vermeil’s offensive juggernaught, with the terrible transition periods between them. Hopefully we’re just now coming out of the youth transition that Herm started and are moving into the realm of balance.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm hoping and it will depend
I think it will say a lot what we do with Carr and Bowe and with the QB position. If we let both of those guys walk and don’t replace them then I may just lose faith in this ownership.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
I mean
Some teams aren’t satisfied with a playoff win… it’s Super Bowl or bust.
My question is when will "WE" chief fans stop making/listening to all these Cassel excuses...Just stop with it, the guy SUCKS. Period!
" The world is Yours"
ok and your point? we all know Palko doesnt belong in the league, even haley knows that
he just wanted to “hit em where it hurts”
My point is we need to stop with Cassel era, every time he is brought up we chiefs fans continually find excuses for the guy simply because hes a “good guy” well im sick of it. enough is enough..
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 2:09 PM CST up reply actions
as soon as we resign Orton, and then start listening to all the Orton excuses.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
If we want a late twenties QB with potential to win some games then....
we might as well quit screwing around and draft Weeden from Ok St….. he been looking good and would be much cheaper too.
Awaiting my punishment.
I disagree
Only so much you can do with a 28 year old rookie QB
rather have 29yr old orton
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
Truth.
Orton knows how to play in the NFL
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Another thing I love about Orton, which I don't think has been mentioned
Is his play-action fake. He’s got to be one of the best in the NFL at selling it.
Just saying, can you imagine how convincing it would be with Charles in the backfield next season? Bowe and Baldwin downfield with no safety help because they’ve bit on the P/A?
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Yeah, I mentioned that above.
I’m down with him for that reason. Dude has a killer fake, and even more so with JC coming out of the backfield.
3rd and 1...guess we'll run the dime. Eesh.
Realism
We need some. Realistically… are we going to get a franchise QB in the draft? Probably not. Could we sign one in FA (Manning doesn’t count due to health status)? Probably not. Of the guys available in FA… who is better than Cassel? Orton. Anyone else? Not really.
So lock up Orton for a few years. No longer than Romeo. Add some pieces to the OL. Get another RB option. Figure out the Carr/Bowe situation. Get some more talent in the draft. Bring on 2012.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
HERE'S REALITY
And why we’re all pissed…. Pioli is tied to Cassel and he’ll be our QB until he retires or Pioli is fired. Our reality f’ing sucks.
Pioli drafted Stanzi
Pioli claimed Orton off waivers.
How do you think Pioli is tied to Cassel? Because Cassel was the best option a few years back and now it’s time to explore other options while Cassel is still under contract?
Seems a bit overblown.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
To his credit...
Orton was claimed because Pioli knew Palko wouldn’t cut it, despite what Haley might say or think. We were still competing for the division title, so he made the move to try to keep us competitive.
Pioli’s issue is that he should have fired Haley sooner.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
So, this article basically confirmed and
summed up what we’ve all said here for weeks now, and we get to do it all over again.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
I'm still holding out hope
for Peyton Manning. Could we get him? Imaging 3-4 years, even with Peyton at 85-90%, training Ricky Stanzi or another developmental back behind him. Trade Cassel to Seattle for a 4th rounder. Draft Kellen Moore or that guy from ASU…and draft a line or fill in free agency so that we can protect Peyton.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:23 PM CST reply actions
It would be great
but I’m done getting my hopes up for it. I’ll start thinking about it again after he’s been released by the Colts & cleared to play.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Kellen Moore = Tyler Palko
Peyton Manning may never take another NFL snap.
Let’s focus on the options that are actually available.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
I'm only saying
take Kellen Moore IF we sign Peyton. If we don’t sign Peyton, make a deal with Orton, and either keep Cassel as backup or trade him. Keep Stanzi as a project and draft another late round QB. Face it, we are not getting Luck or RG 3, so our best options are:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Kyle Orton
Either way, IMHO we should trade Cassel and draft an up-and-comer….if you don’t like Moore, try Foles, Keenum, Weeden, maybe even Ryan Lindley from SDSU
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
You do realize taht Kellen Moore is being compared to Tyler Palko
Any chiefs fan that suggest him should be slapped
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
But i do like Qwieler from ASU
" The world is Yours"
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
My mistake...
I actually meant Foles from Arizona…oops
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
Casshole, shitty QB, shitty teammate
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Because hatred and vitriol
spew from HIV.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 26, 2012 2:28 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Only if you ignore the praise other, contributing players get
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
If the Chiefs retain Matt Cassel
you can say goodbye to the optimistic Dirkness you’ve all come to know
In all fairness
Even with Cassel…we’ll probably win the AFC west the next 4-5 years… and lose in the 1st round of the playoffs.
Lets face it
Clark is guna do the bare minimum to keep butts in seats and open our wallets. As long as we buy what he’s selling at this level of play he’ll continue putting the same product out there for us to consume. Too bad its a $#!? Sandwich!
TOUGH
by TOUGH on Jan 26, 2012 2:33 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Talk in-length about guys that are under contract
Not guys you may hope you get under contract. Orton is a free agent. Sure, Pioli will talk to him, but he isn’t going to tip his hand about how aggressively he will pursue him.
Some people just absolutely baffle me. We see all the comparisons of Orton and Cassel, putting Orton in front on a lot of tangible aspects. Then we talk about how we don’t really want either, but we’ll take Orton over Cassel. Then we reference being “stuck” with Cassel, and now we want to be “stuck” with Orton, so we can have this same conversation in two seasons about wanting Orton replaced.
Chiefs fans, listen up, I’m going to tell you a secret: Orton won’t sign a one year deal, guaranteed. We want a better QB, but do we really want to commit another 3 seasons, at the very least, to Orton? Because that is what it is going to take to get him to re-sign here. And it will probably take a contract similar to Cassel’s. Come on, think it through.
There is no reason to over-commit to Orton right now. EVERYONE says they don’t expect him to be the long term answer, but he will sign a contract that will forcibly make him the long term answer.
We put ourselves out of position to draft a top QB this year. We really shouldn’t have to give Orton a long term deal just because he is marginally better than Cassel. You stick it out with Cassel this season, hope Stanzi develops, or go into next season with the hope of being in a position to draft a top QB.
That is really all this team can do.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 26, 2012 2:35 PM CST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Again this is more confusion
We have a coach on a 3 year contract and he needs like most other coaches the ability to choose his own contract .
Longterm is basically the lengh of Romeos contract because a NEW coach would want his own QB
So if we signed Orton to a 3 year deal he is tied to Romeo and if they do well they both can be extended and if they fail they both would be gone .
What you are talking about is basically creating chaos while basically setting Romeo up to fail from the start while wasting the prime years of several of pour best players.
Drafting a QB next year places Romeo in a position where his job is now in the hands of a qb in his rookie year .
So Matt sucks it up and we can draft high next year but Romeo only has 2 years left and one would be with a rookie starting at QB . Now we are in a position with Romeo where either have to extend him or hes in a lame duck year . It basically becomes a waste of 3 seasons .
We dont extend Romeo and now we have a new HC who will want to pick his own QB because unless that QB is already a star that whats happens in the NFL.
If Romeo wants Orton give him Orton for his 3 years here and they rise or fall together and if they fail we draft and hire with a first rd qb in mind .
You dont hire a coach like Romeo on a 3 year deal and then consider taking a QB with a high pick in the first rd .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 3:11 PM CST up reply actions
IF healthy and cleared to play
I’d rather have Manning for his final 3 years…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:16 PM CST up reply actions
So long story short, you think the team should sign Orton long term?
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 26, 2012 3:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No I think if we are gonna make a change make it now and give Romeo Orton on the same 3 year contract Romeo is on and they sink or swim together
If they succeed maybe they get a 1 or two year extension if they fail they are both gone and our new search consists of finding someone who we feel could groom a young QB.
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
i would be good with that, until manning comes to kc
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
Im finne with changing QBs at the same time we change HC's... except I'm NOT fine with that new QB being Orton
It’s a complete waste of 3 seasons to stick Orton out there as the new QB.
Trade up, spend the picks.. and let Crennel sink or swim with his guy, that also actually has the potential to become an elite long term starter.
Don’t waste a single season by replacing a mediocre QB with a slightly less mediocre QB.. and expecting that to launch the team forward.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
We didnt sign Romeo based on potential we signed him because we felt we could win now and drafting a potential based QB helps him how ?
Thats a waste and basically setting up your coach to fail.
by Willie Beamon on Jan 26, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
We can win now just as well with Cassel as we can with Orton.
Either way we’ll be counting on the defense to win the games.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 26, 2012 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Pioli is not a dumb guy
I hope this is just a case of him just paying lip service to Cassel in case he’s stuck with him another season. He’s always been one to never show his cards, and I would expect him to say nothing differently than what he did to the media. All I care about is his actions this offseason. He can say “this is currently Matt’s team” all he wants in interviews as long as meanwhile he’s actively trying to upgrade the position in the background.
yep, I agree (at least I want to agree)
Him & Stanzi are the only two he has any control over on the roster, so it makes little sense to throw either under the bus.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Adam Schefter
Thinks that Manning does NOT get traded, but instead gets released as a URFA. So, c’mon Mr. Hunt…make a move similar to the one the Chiefs did when the 49ers released Montana.
(Watch the video…)
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 2:49 PM CST reply actions
and it's possible manning gets released
but until then, it’s just speculation.
If you think Pioli has dismissed the idea of Peyton out of hand, you’re just being silly. Pioli has to deal in reality, however, not fantasy.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
yes this whole manning thing got montana written all over it, except for the chiefs giving up draft picks.
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
Oh... Bajah...
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
I have, I think, a valid question
How long do we hold on to Stanzi as a “developing QB” before we let him play? Seriously! If he’s not good enough, cut him and get someone else. I LIKE Stanzi, and I seem to remember much joy here at AP when we drafted him in the 5th round. But if Palko was starting, as horrendous as he was, over Stanzi, then WTF are we doing keeping him around?
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:21 PM CST reply actions
Maybe they didn't want to crush his confidence...
Either way, Stanzi is a long shot or a hopeful quality backup. I wouldn’t get too worked up over a 5th round pick. Not everyone is a Tom Brady.
You must be
a Java programmer? (I teach a beginning Java class…)
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Because if we get a star QB, then Stanzi could turn into a second round pick.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Another link, and then I'll go away...(for today, anyway...)
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Jan 26, 2012 3:24 PM CST reply actions
Hmmm....
Yes, they’d have to be sure Manning is healthy, but Colts running back Joseph Addai has been catching Peyton’s throws over the past few weeks, and called him "game ready."
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: CB Kirkpatrick/G DeCastro 1st rd, WR Wright/OT Adams or Sanders 2nd rd, QB Foles/ILB Messina 3rd rd, ILB Messina/OT Oglesby 4th rd, TE M. Williams/RB I. Pead 5th rd, RB L. Dunbar 6th, S G. Iloka 6th/7th FA Signings: NT Poliai or Hill, Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon, Belcher. Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Peyton
Will either be cut or retained. I don’t think Irsay will be able to trade him as peyton will count as 28 mil against your cap.
This guy sounds like the second coming of Whitlock.
No good news ever. Always trying to cause some sort of shit storm.
Who, St John who has been in KC FOREVER
Or Chadiha who works for ESPN and has no KC ties?
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Maybe you can answer this, H2E
Does Chadiha have a long time anti-New England bias? That suggestion was made on another thread just a couple of minutes ago. Very curious to know
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 26, 2012 3:50 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not familiar at all with Chadiha,
but every time I have heard him say something it has been sensationalist.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Go through his ESPN archives
Dude is as objective as they come
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 26, 2012 4:05 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Well, he's clearly on Team Haley
And it’s remarkable how divided almost all reporters on Haley/Pioli.
Very rarely do you read/hear one that dishes out blame to both, as it should be.
I’ve heard Chadiha…maybe 20 times on the Border Patrol, he’s been pretty one sided.
I went through 12 pages of his past articles (going back to early 2009) on ESPN and there is nothing that suggests that. Before this recent Pioli mess Jeff was very positive on the Chiefs. Was critical of the Baldwin pick but also said the Chiefs could make a deep playoff run. Doesn’t sound like someone out to get Pioli. Maybe, just maybe, he’s reporting what he is being told.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 26, 2012 4:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think there's any long term thing; like years and years of it.
I think it’s within the last year or so.
Yeah, I went back through his archives a bit myself. I didn't see anything hinting towards a bias at all
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 26, 2012 4:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I've listened to him on 810 for the past 3 months at least.
He’s always hard on Pioli, even before the Babb article.
I don’t doubt he’s got people telling him stuff. Just think it’s blown out of proportion.
If its anyone associated with the past staff, that would be totally unsurprising
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 26, 2012 4:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I wonder how many long time personnel scouts said that teams couldn't win with Brady?
I wonder how many said they could win with Matt Ryan?
Everyone wants to be proven right. No one wants to be proven wrong.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 26, 2012 3:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I saw the picture for the article... I just had too!
by JQuest on Jan 26, 2012 4:14 PM CST reply actions 6 recs
This needs to be green AP!
Providing COLOR commentary for Arrowhead Pride! AKA The Picture Diva!
"I am not embarrassed to be with a younger man, except when I drop him off at school."-Angie Dickinson, veteran vixen
So it is written, so it shall be.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Cassel seemed to be well liked by his teammates.
We’ve heard a lot of people talking about his leadership qualities. It’s kind of weird to read that.
*Aw come on. Don't leave your Uncle T-Bag hanging. - Dr. Funke
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.
Have you never changed your mind?
If you are a wide receiver and in order to catch a ball thrown by Cassel you have to slow up in your run, or try to twist your body and reach behind you or have to leap up and break your stride to catch the damned ball. And then you have a QB that is putting the ball where you have to reach for it and keep running at full speed and not getting killed by players who you have beaten. Wouldn’t you change your mind? Receivers would much rater be overthrown than underthrown because underthrown balls turn you into a defensive player and usually get your head knocked off. Same way with the defence. Three and outs will kill any defence given time. When they have a decent amount of time to sit and get their breath, they go out their with renewed energy and do their damnedest to get a 3 and out so they can give the offence a chance to score.
I was just pointing out how weird it was to read that about Cassel.
I wasn’t defending his play.
*Aw come on. Don't leave your Uncle T-Bag hanging. - Dr. Funke
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.
Hey guys,
you have given a lot of scenarios, but few of them are reality. If we can sign Orton to a reasonable contract, do it, But if he tries to hold us up let him go. Neither Orton or Cassel are the end of the QB hunt. They are just warm bodies until we find a QB who is a franchise QB. I submit that there are certain things that all franchise QB’s have in common. an arm that can make all the throws with accuracy, the ability to read defences and know how to attack them. able to change calls on the field, and probably the most important, be a winner. Be a guy who goes out on the field expecting to win and doing it. I seriously doubt that Orton or Casselm ever go out on the field and feel that they are going to absolutely win. Weeden in the last 2 years has only lost 3 times. In that time he has amassed huge numbers, and almost all of it with his arm. He doesn’t put himself in the open field much where he can be taken out of a game or a season. Those are my sentiments and why I think he would be the best solution for the Chiefs, He could be the starter in his first year if he only has to compete against Orton, Cassel or Stanzi.
I heard the interviews
I heard all the interviews, the ones where everybody said that it seems Orton won’t come back, and saw the report that the Chiefs DO want to bring Orton back. And although everyones saying that it seems Kyle Orton won’t be a Chief next year, I havent heard anything or saw anything that makes me think they wont bring him back. The Only “real” thing that came out, and the only thing that was clearly stated, is that the Chiefs do want to bring Orton back. And if They tell Kyle that he will be the starter when he comes back, I honestly don’t know why he wouldn’t come back. Thats how I look at it. I’d love Orton back, they played so much better with him under center
Charles, Mccluster, Moeaki, Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, DJ, Berry, Flowers, Carr= Super Bowl Bound.
That's the thing
And if you follow it closely you’ll see… they’re not GOING to tell him that. They’ll let him compete for it it camp that’s about it.
That’s why they say they’d like to have him back and say at the same time Cassel will most likely start.
They know he probably won’t come back to compete with Cassel for the spot when he can go start on another team without competing.
I’m not as gung ho about Orton as most people. He has promise but I haven’t seen enough to say he’s much of an upgrade if he is at all. BUT if we have both of them between them we could do decent and hopefully bring in our QOF soon.
I dont really care either way anymore.
If Pioli continues to blindly back Cassel and wants to put his job on the back of a mediocre QB that’s fine with me because Pioli’s an idiot if he does and we don’t need an idiot GM and by years end when we have the same results they can share taxi fare to the airport out of town.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
got a question what will it cost to move up to the number 3 spot in the draft
i heard the vikings want to trade the pick
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
Why trade to #3 though?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 26, 2012 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
so that the Redskins can jump up past you and trade to #2 and draft RG3... leaving you holding your dick in your hand, and less draft picks than you had in the other hand.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
i know just trying to see the diffenence between 2 and 3 in the draft
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 26, 2012 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
It will be a huge difference because after the two QBs there isn't a big must have stud.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 26, 2012 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
yes it would.
However, in this case.. it’s highy unlikely that St. louis will be taking a QB at #2… no matter whose available.
Which means… if they DON’T trade their pick… RG3 will most likely be there at #3.
The problem is.. that if sit there waiting to find out if they trade their pick… they will… to someone else…. and then the partys over.
You pretty much HAVE to attempt the trade with St. Louis at #2, and then if no one else is trying to move up to that spot… you overpaid because you could have traded for the #3. But in my world… I wouldn’t care if you gave up a tiny bit more to get the #2 instead of the #3, because I don’t think the Chiefs are going anywhere until they start taking some risks for highly rated first round QB’s.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Jan 27, 2012 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
That's pretty much what I thought
I find it highly unlikely RGIII will be there at 3 unless St Louis is afraid they’lll lose out on the player they DO want by trading down.
he who says cassel >Orton I have one simple must have Qb skill....
Making reads .That is enough for me….
Not much new here
The commentary is the only part of this that is new.
I’m hoping two things:
1. they find a decent 2nd string (if Stanzi’s not the one)
2. they step up and draft Barkley next year
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