4 months ago
Matt Conner
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With Philbin gone I would expect Clements just to move up to OC of the Pack.
Clements was a nice thought before the Philbin move and it might’ve been appealing to him with Romeo seemingly on his way to retirement soon. But the Philbin move combined with this staffs inability to look outside of their own “tree” makes it unlikely.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Yeah but OC of the Packers doesn't have as much control as he would have here
Theoretically of course.
1) Clements as OC
2) Sign Peyton Manning
3) Have Clements develop Stanzi or other young QB
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
If your dreams come true
and we do bring in Peyton and Clements, the OC would likely still have limited control as Peyton will prefer to call his own plays.
Makes sense.
OTOH, he probably won’t have the opportunity to call plays there, so KC may still have a shot at him. I don’t know his contract situation, though. If he’s under contract, the Pack don’t have to give permission.
If I'm remembering right from the write-up I did on him last offseason
His contract was up at the end of the 2011 season.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions
And they only have to give permission if it is a lateral move, not a promotion
If I am remembering correctly.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
QB to OC wouldn't be a promotion.
Only two designations now of head coach and assistant coach.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
Thank you.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Every assistant to assistant move is considered lateral.
Doesn’t matter what titles they have.
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2010/1/14/1249310/rules-pertaining-to-hiring-nfl
You're right.
If he’s looking to call plays or the appeal of a possible head coaching promotion then we would have a leg up on GB. How things have functioned around here since Pioli and friends came in though, I just don’t think they’ll go outside of their tree of old buddies which is unfortunate.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 PM CST up reply actions
Good read and food for thought.
All the not-knowing is enough to drive a fan batty.
It's no fun if I have to explain it.
This is your best of the "OC possibility" series
I love Clements and think he would be perfect for us. He even turned the likes of Elvis Grbac and Tommy Maddox into respectable QBs.
Throw as much money at him as he wants.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
al saunders anyone
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
YES!!!!
AND BRING BACK PRIEST, TONY G, JASON DUNN, WILL SHIELDS, BRIAN WATERS, WILLIE ROAF!!! MORTEN ANDERSEN CAN STILL BOOT IT, I AM SURE OF IT.
IT WILL BE JUST LIKE 2003!!!!
OMFG CAN"T WAIT!!!
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
there is no reason to mock his opinion. it wasnt funny, it was just rude. really thought someone who has posted here for a long time would understand that
lets scare people away by practically mocking their thoughts….
yeah how crazy is it to think of al saunders as our offensive coordinator….not remotely, how crazy do you look with that response? completely
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
Agreed
Not unpossible either considering our QB coach is Zorn and maybe those two can work together better without one of them being the HC.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:37 PM CST up reply actions
I guess I didn't realize he was serious
People actually think Saunders is a realistic option? He runs a completely different system and has never been successful outside of Dick Vermeil.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
yes lol. his name has been floated, but im not so sure people are serious about the chances
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
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We have no offense right now and a bunch of the offensive coaching staff has or will be canned
Including our OC likely retiring. So we don’t run any system so it would be hard for it to be completely different.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:44 PM CST up reply actions
To summarize
We need a new OC to come in and implement something with the talent we have so that we can have more success on offense because what we’re doing isn’t working.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
agree, new offensive staff, period. and a new st coach would be nice while at it.
starting to fear we may be lucky to get that great offensive staff
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
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I agree that it would be a perfect time to switch offensive systems
But I don’t know if that is something Pioli wants to do. The whole “there are more than one way to do things, but I have been successful doing it this way, so I will keep doing it the way I know how” mantra.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
this scares me. really does.
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
My opinion
I think they system should remain about the same, just so everyone is on the same page going forward. We just need someone to come in and add their own wrinkles, but keep the terminology the same or similar.
As for playcalling, I think it is overrated by fans. If you have a QB that can make all the throws, an O-Line that can keep your QB upright, receivers that can get open, and a RB that can keep the defenses honest — the playcall really doesn’t matter as much. If you have a QB that can call his own plays (Peyton, Brady) you really only need the OC for gameplanning.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
I really don't think Pioli is stupid
All options have to be on the table as far as the offense is concerned. Besides, this decision is more on Romeo than anyone. This control freak story is so overblown it’s incredible. If it was as bad as people are making it out to be then this team would be nowhere near as close to being a legit contender as it is right now.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Didn't say stupid, just stubborn
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
the idea that he's such a control freak...
that he has an iron grip in deciding the assistant coaching staff and the scheme is more or less suggesting that he is stupid. Stubborn is one thing, but I don’t think he’s so stupid as to think he can do it all. I don’t see him being involved with these decisions any further than evaluating what kind of players we have, or will need in order to run whatever system is brought in with a new OC. In the end, he’s going to let Romeo live or die with the decision just like he did with Haley.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I don't mean to point the finger specifically at you Nick
It’s this theme that Pioli is in control of everything around here is out of control. It’s not realistic and I’m only trying to point that out.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
No worries
I agree that Pioli probably isn’t as much of a micro-manager as the sensationalist media makes him out to be, but I think it is pretty well known he runs a tight ship. Probably tighter than most other NFL organizations, which is why it draws so much press.
The media has been looking for a story to get back at Pioli/Hunt for tuning them out and they finally found it.
But with all that being said, I still think it would be best for Pioli and the rest of the team to keep the offensive system as similar as possible. Terminology is important, and we know we have at least some pieces that fit. The big one that is missing is the QB.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
I can see your overall point
I guess I’d differ in wanting to see the offense blown up. But yeah, the QB makes me want to cry a little.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I personally don't care if the offense is blown up.
Nothing the last three years makes me want to cling to the old system. Not saying it couldn’t work, but it hasn’t yet.
that my take
i don’t think the consistency argument holds much water since it’s just been so underwhelming since the beginning
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Clements is my first choice
hope it happens.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Jan 21, 2012 1:26 PM CST reply actions
what will u do if muir comes back
it was haley who called the plays not muir
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
I will do the same thing I do everyday...
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Based on what?
And for arguments sake lets say you’re right and Haley was calling the plays, was he also calling the plays from the unemployment line the last three weeks of the season when we scored a whopping 13 ppg?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
its a lot like the "haley cut gaither" argument....yeah...haley cut gaither, with all the power he had at the end of his time here
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I mentioned that on another post to.
If Pioli was such a control freak and egomaniac, which seems to be the bandwagon that people are jumping onto now, then how are all these personel decisions Haleys fault?
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
yeah no kidding, using gaither as the example
if he was planning to fire todd haley, why give him the “gift” of listening to what he wants when it comes to cutting a player? its pretty laughable really.
dont get me wrong, there s definitely plenty of blame to go around….but not when it comes to that
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Scapegoat.
People think Pioli was forced to cut Gaither, because Haley never gave him any reps in practice or games, so we didn’t have “film” on him in KC.
But even then, Mims would have had to at least looked good enough to promote to the active roster.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
and. once they fired haley, gaither could have played. just makes no sense unless pioli signed off
agreed
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thats my point, they knew haley was out the door, so why cut gaither instead of keeping him post haley
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
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And how exactly do we know that?
Especially with the report of the back and forth Haley and Bowe, there is no proof Haley was on his way out at the time of Gaither’s release.
Gaither was spoken on by Muir himself on why he was cut. I’m not saying Pioli didn’t sign off on the release, but obviously he would have got the same info from the coaching staff, including Haley, that Muir provided the media.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 2:17 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Really?
Pioli didn’t already know then that Haley was likely on his way out? Cmon now….There were rumors had we lost the Indy game that Haley was out. Pioli had to have had at least an incling that Haley was going to be gone and there’s no way he would’ve let him make a personel move like that.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think
Haley was out at the end of the season. I think the Jets meltdown accelerated his plans. And if that’s the case, there was no reason to hang on to Gaither since he was just wasting a roster spot under Haley.
Please stop ignoring the facts for opinions. Pretty please.
Muir told the media, directly, why Gaither was released. He is a coach. If you truly believe Muir was the ONLY coach that Pioli was listening to, or whatever other nonsense we want to come up with regarding the Pioli/Haley relationship, there really is no reasoning with you.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 2:44 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He may have took other opinions on Gaither
We all knew Muir wasn’t a fan, but Muir isn’t getting blamed by fans — it is Haley. It just doesn’t make sense. The decision was ultimately Pioli’s, not Haley’s or Muir’s. Which is why Pioli deserves the blame. He came to KC to have the final say on all personnel moves. To think he had no opinion on cutting Gaither and gave Muir/Haley the power to make personnel decisions is absurd.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
It was Pioli's decision to cut him.
It was Haley’s decision to not play him.
Think the two might be related somehow?
Pioli is Haley?
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
So you are saying Pioli is down there coaching the players and seeing first hand exactly what Muir told the media regarding Gaither's release?
So Muir was just a puppet of Pioli, saying exactly what Pioli wanted him to say to the media???
You contradict yourself, nick, unfortunately. You say Pioli may have taken other’s opinions about Gaither, but ultimately made the decision. Pioli gets opinions from the coaching staff, which is proven of what they thought about Gaither, yet gets the “blame” for his release. Meaning Pioli should have just blatantly told his coaching staff they were wrong about Gaither and kept him on the roster? Then he should have made the staff play him? We all know better than that. We are all intelligent adults here. Its just unfortunate that the bias against Pioli is clouding people’s judgments of something as simple as this.
The coaching staff is ON RECORD saying why Gaither was released, but its not their fault that Gaither was released, because as the ultimate decision maker, Pioli should have defied the coaching staff’s opinion and kept him in the roster, so its clearly Pioli’s fault.
Wake up, people
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 3:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I can't believe we are having this argument
Pioli is the GM, not the coaching staff. Pioli had an opinion and had the final say. We don’t know what his opinion was, but he obviously agreed with the coaching staff.
He is the GM. He makes the personnel decisions. That includes releasing players and signing players off the practice squad.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
It still blows my mind
that they cut Gaither and kept Maneri. That alone tells me something was very wrong with Gaither in KC. Maybe he wasn’t playing well (unlikely since he played well in San Diego), maybe his attitude was bad since he wasn’t the starter, maybe he sucks at RT but can still play well at LT. At any rate, someone, somewhere in the Chiefs organization didn’t want to keep him.
The guy has to have every pen or cup of coffee in the office accounted for
And people think he would let Gaither go for an unproven UDFA on a whim and/or gave Haley the call.
I’m not buying it.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
exactly. that it right there
plus we all know pioli spends time at practice watching the o-line
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
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How are people this naive? And how does Muir's comments to the media get ignored just to support the Pioli-hate?
AP motto: ignore facts to support your opinion
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 2:20 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Because Pioli is the GM and makes personel decisions?
You could make a strong argument that you’re ignoring facts and common sense to support your point.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
You missed the point
People are claiming Pioli released Gaither WITHOUT any reasons corroborated from the coaching staff, despite the opposite being public, with Muir telling the media why Gaither was released.
That is what is conveniently being ignored here to support the hate for Pioli. Like I said in am above comment, no one is saying Pioli didn’t sign off on Gaither’s release, but to say he did it all on his own, or didn’t give any of the coaching staff, specifically Haley, a say in this process is just naive
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 2:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm in agreement with your point RD37
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
No one said that
However, what is being said by most fans is that “Haley cut Gaither.”
Muir and Haley obviously didn’t think enough of Gaither to keep him. And maybe for good reason — he wasn’t a ZBS guy when he came here and we knew he would have to adjust.
The fact is, Pioli has the final say on all personnel decisions. Pioli attends practices and watches the O-Line. It wasn’t like he was making the decision blindly and only listening to his subordinates.
I agree that everyone needs to be blamed for missing on Gaither, and that includes Pioli. We are just making an argument that Pioli should be receiving more criticism than he is getting regarding Gaither since he is the one that made the FINAL DECISION, not Haley or Muir.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Hmm, and think about what you just said
Pioli should get the lion’s share of the blame because he didn’t defy his coaching staff’s opinions and keep Gaither in the roster, you know with the “ultimate decision making” label and all. Yet, since it was so obvious Haley was on his way out, there is no way Pioli would have listened to anything Haley said, so why wouldn’t he defy his opinion about Gaither? Obviously because Pioli was a much better coach and spent more time on the field evaluating these players on a daily basis and should have recognized that Gaither needed to remain on the roster, despite what the coaching staff was saying to him. Screw his coaching staff, he was going to fire all of them anyway, so yeah, its definitely mostly Pioli’s fault
Ridiculous web of crap bring spun here to attempt to cast more negative light on Pioli.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 3:10 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yep
The buck stops with Pioli. He gets credit when he makes good decisions, and he must take the blame when he makes bad ones.
Not saying that cutting Gaither was a bad decision, just that it was his decision to make.
I believe the Haley-Pioli relationship was so strained at the point of the Gaither release, Pioli didn’t give a flying f*** what Haley thought, because he knew he was on his way out.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Gaither was gone anyway at the end of the season.
There was no reason to keep him if he wasn’t playing. And there’s no reason to think that Haley was getting fired after the Jets game, no matter how they played.
There were rumors of Haley getting fired last season
Even after we made the playoffs.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
I know that.
And yet he was allowed to coach for 13 games this season. There was no reason to think he wouldn’t have been allowed to coach the final three games, if not for the complete meltdown against the Jets, and his man-crush on Palko.
Are you suggested that Pioli knew he was going to fire him after the Jets game, no matter what? And he knew that when Gaither was released?
Obviously, tark
Pioli is the ultimate decision maker. He knew he was going to fire Haley and release Gaither the moment he signed them both. He doesn’t listen to anyone about what he has made up his mind to do the second he makes it up. He is the ultimate.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 3:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I am a Pioli fan
But I do not think he is without criticism. No one is. Don’t know why I’m getting attacked here.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Obviously, tark
Pioli is the ultimate decision maker. He knew he was going to fire Haley and release Gaither the moment he signed them both. He doesn’t listen to anyone about what he has made up his mind to do the second he makes it up. He is the ultimate.
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 21, 2012 3:16 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It looked like he was calling plays before he was fired.
But he definitely wasn’t calling plays earlier in the season.
I think he intervened on the plays called quite a bit.
And some games, most when we actually started playing better in the second half, some sideline shots of him suggested he was calling plays too. I think the “play calling by committee” is the most likely scenario if you look at all the confusion on the field and how slow things were getting into the QB.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
i think we cant really know what the heck was going on offensively. id like to think haley would do a better job calling plays
but at the same time, if the guy on the sidelines keeps overriding the man in the booth, it typically leads to failure
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
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I could see him though calling plays like Tark suggested near the end of his employment.
Alot of the signs pointed him trying to tank things in order to get fired and calling the plays would give him more control towards that.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
yeah. it does appear that way. and it really sucks. as a supporter of haley, i would never th ink that was a good move
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if it is true, i may have to re-examine following haley to his next spot as a team to follow
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
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It was a better option in his mind then resigning and quitting on his players.
Not much of a better option though.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 21, 2012 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
agree completely. super super disappointed, and thats not even a strong enough word, in todd haley
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Team Colquitt
the offense moved the ball a hell of alot better when haley was gone.
the green bay game was the best offense plan i saw all year. got in the red zone alot that game, but didn’t score like we should of. Under haley how many times did we even see the red zone. RUN, Run, incomplete pass, and punt.
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 21, 2012 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Mike Sherman as OC
I just read over his resume, his stint with the Packers was impressive. He knows how to move the ball and he is out of a job. If the Bucs don’t give him a head job then we have our proven OC.
Deron Cherry for HOF :
6x Pro Bowl Selection (1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988)
Associated Press First-team All-Pro selection (x3) (1984, 1986, 1988)
Associated Press Second-team All-Pro selection (x2) (1983, 1985)
1986 NFL 101 AFC Defensive Player of the Year
NFL 1980s All-Decade Team
6yrs 100+ tackles
This is interesting
can you give us some of his highlights?
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
When it comes to thinking outside the box, you stood about 20 feet away from the box sir.
I like it. Lots of coaching experience. And he knows a thing of two about the WCO.
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.
Seriously
Well done Pacific Chief. This seems like a pretty interesting idea…one that could make a lot of sense.
I'm surprised more progress has not been made
The Chiefs’ season only ended a few weeks ago, but I think it’s interesting we haven’t had more news about our coordinators (even with Pioli’s reputation for shutting down the media). In addition to a new OC, we will need a new O line coach. Both of those guys are going to want to review as much tape as possible to see what we have and what we need, as well as who fits their preferred styles. All of that review and assessment has to be done before FA starts and well before the draft. That could play a big role in if we draft Reiff, Martin, DeCastro or someone else. The fact that no OC or line coach has been named makes me think they are either coaching a team still in the playoffs or are thought to be “hidden gems” hanging around Arrowhead already (I hope not).
And WRs coach as well
There are at least 3 openings on the offensive staff. We need to bring in some new blood and stop promoting from within.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Bring back Solari!
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.
Solari was great with RRPP.
Don’t deny that.
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.























