RG3...Am I crazy?
(made an excessively long comment and decided to make it a fan-post too. don't know if it will get rec'd but here's some food for thought).
I usually grow tired very quickly of fans who pick their favorite college play-maker and then insist that the chiefs should go get him, regardless of need, scheme, and deficiencies at other positions.
Yet, I feel myself really wanting the Chiefs to trade-up to get RG3. Am I nuts? Just tell me if I am, but this kid seems like a complete badass who would fit well in our offense.
http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_point_value_chart.htm
So here’s the scenario:
I’m going to assume that he’ll fall to 4 as the Rams won’t give-up on Bradford and the Vikings won’t give-up on Ponder.
We would have to trade, according to the value chart above, our 12th pick (assuming we lose the flip), our second-round pick, and an our third-round pick, although I think we would mix-in some picks from next years draft. That’s a fortune, but here’s why it might make sense (assuming my sanity for just a moment)…
Cassel isnt’ working-out. His best moments have been paired with inconsistency in most games. He has trouble routinely check-down to 3rd and 4th options as he locks-on way too much, and his accuracy mediocre. I’m not an avid hater — I think the offense could do satisfactorially with him at the helm next season — but he’s not going to be the overwhelming reason why we win if we do. A 2012 playoff chiefs team that has Cassel at the helm will win because of its defense and JC playmaking/ball-control on offense, not Cassel torching defenses.
RG3 might just be the truth. I like his maturity and attitude more than anything else. Already has his masters, nearly gave the bird to the NFL so he could go to law-school, super-brainy, very mature, family-oriented kid. His athleticism is terrific as well as his accuracy. Understands and embodies the difference between arrogance and confidence. I don’t think that anyone who has seen more than 2 minutes of interview with this dude can make the case that he’ll have trouble understanding NFL playbooks.
Furthermore, RG3 may be the key to unlocking a lot of talent we have on offense:
1. Our o-line is very quick and athletic — what they lack in raw-strength (and they lack a lot of that), they make-up for in shiftiness and agility. The potential to consistently move the pocket and create a lot of lateral play-action in the backfield with JC would weaponize the OL’s agility for the QB’s feet as well as the draws and funky-pulling plays we use to create space for JC. Cassel has some mobility but not big-12-champion-hurdles mobility. I think back to when the Falcons had Vick and Warrick Dunn — a fake stretch play would result in the defense, for a .2 seconds, not knowing where the ball was yet having to account for a HB with elite speed running left and a QB with elite speed running right. Very hard to defend.
2. We have a lot of playmaking available at WR — much of it is lost on the failure of the coaching staff/QB to produce synergy between the weapons we have. Bowe and to a far lesser extend Baldwin are big, physical guys who can penalize single-coverage. Breaston and to a lessor extent McCluster have speed and playmaking ability. With those 4 guys on the field, a secondary is hard-pressed to match-up talent-wise, but for some reason its not coming together. It may likely be the case that that is a coaching, not a QB’ing, issue, but a dynamic player at QB that forces defenses to account for his running ability may unlock a lot of that potential talent at WR. Plus a QB with more accuracy and field-awareness could help.
3. Our defense is better in its nickle package than its base — we have fixed this in part with Gordon and Gregg, but for the most part, our defense is better when whichever make-shift NT we have is on the sideline and Arenas is in the game. Thus, playing with a lead tightens the noose around the opposing offense’s neck. Our defense is going to be good next year but playing with a lead will make it much better. I know, I know, every defense is better with a lead but I think this is uniquely true for the chiefs given our personnel, specifically our secondary.
Obviously, the costs of getting RG3 would be tremendous:
1. We still have to pay Cassel — the rookie wage scale may make employing both somewhat easier to stomach but its still bad for fiscal efficiency. (though I’m not sure what the nature of Cassel’s contract is, I’ve heard conflicting reports — what would we owe him if we cut him tomorrow???)
2. It is at least 3, if not 4 picks for 1 — This would be the Julio Jones move of this year. (Though notwithstanding a couple of hamstring set-backs, I think the Falcons have been vindicated for that decision). We still have a lot of other needs. Although, I don’t think they are nearly as numerous as they used to be. We have a predominantly young and talented team, if there ever was a time to sacrifice player quantity for quality, this could be it.
3. the browns may just tell us no — if he’s such a hot commodity, we may just not be able to pry the brown’s hands off of that 4th pick which either means (a) this is all academic or (b) we’d have to move-up to #3 to get him which is more like 5 picks for 1 guy.
Anyway, tell me I’m nuts and — if you have a second — tell me why.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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yup, you're crazy :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
citadel (below) said the rest of what I was thinking :-) good post though!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Appreciate it :)
And I can totally see the logic of just having Orton and Cassel working together, competing for the starting spot. Read a report (forgot where) the other day that they have a very good relationship and may likely push each other to get a lot better. Who knows, maybe Cassel emerges once he has some real competition.
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 18, 2012 4:41 PM CST up reply actions
Orton will not sign into a qb controversy lol and do you blame him after Tebow
by Willie Beamon on Jan 18, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
this is good point but I wonder if he has an option. Where could he go in free-agency where he would be the no-brainer starter?
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 18, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
Remember this name
Chandler Harnish out of NI. I don’t believe in late round QB’s . but this guy could be special
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 21, 2012 4:57 AM CST up reply actions
nice post, I rec'd you.
my personal opinion the browns wouldnt do that but, what if we traded cassell to the browns to take away some of the picks we would have to give up?
maybe our pick at #12, matt cassell, 3rd round pick this year and next?
by the great thunderlips on Jan 18, 2012 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
you are right about moving up
You just have the wrong qb targeted. His initials are AL1
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 18, 2012 4:15 PM CST reply actions
Yeah
though I’m not sure anything could pry that pick out of the Colt’s hands right now, especially with these rumors about Peyton retiring.
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 18, 2012 4:27 PM CST up reply actions
If they tell Peyton that they are going with him...
He will stay for about 3 more years. So I think they would be willing to trade it away. However, the price for that pick will be outrageous
Dexter McCluster
Peyton will not play for a rebuilding team like the Colts Are any other
And that rumor about him going to the jets, why would he want to walk into that cancer, terminal at that! LT was cancer when he left the bolts, and the Ryans all have mouth cancer, thats why none of them can shut the hell up!
Re-sign Orton, and continue building the roster.
Hopefully, we can trade back with Cleveland and add some more quality talent through the draft with an additional 2nd or 3rd rd pick.
We still have major depth chart issues, as well as holes in the starting lineup. That’s too many issues to be giving up that much for one player.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 18, 2012 4:22 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Out of curiousity
and I should probably just read the draft post for this, but what do you see as our biggest holes right now? OG, OT, NT, durable TE, ILB? Those are what I see but honestly I only think the RT is an urgent priority.
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 18, 2012 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
I want to see the Chiefs draft RT in the 1st rd.
TE is also a major need, but I think that can be taken care of later in the draft.
I think the other holes can be addressed through FA moves:
QB – Kyle Orton
OG – Carl Nicks
NT – Shaun Rogers
ILB – D’Qwell Jackson
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 18, 2012 5:24 PM CST up reply actions
Berflict (think thats spelled right heh)
in the second. I would really like to see that happen. I know there are “issues” that cause some concern with him but the intensity he would bring along with the quality starters around him to help those"issues" just seem like a perfect storm. I would love to see him drooling and foaming at the mouth on a 3rd and long making the other teams QB fold before the play started. I think a LB like that is exactly what this D is missing.
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
My issues with Burfict are all in his performance on the field.
He has very poor mechanics with his tackling. He tries to just knock everyone down, and that doesn’t work in the NFL. Also, there are a lot of questions as to whether or not he can play ILB in the 3-4.
I’d rather see us get a Free Agent like Jackson, or Stephen Tulloch to fill that role and then draft a guy in the later rounds who can be brought along. Or, if we decide to draft for now, Dont’a Hightower from Alabama is the most NFL ready LB in the draft.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
If we got those three guys
Especially Nicks, we’d be stacked. I wasn’t sure why the Saints would let go of Nicks but this article made it seem likely that he could end-up on the market:
So here’s hoping to Brees getting a huge contract and Colston getting a new one.
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 19, 2012 8:52 AM CST up reply actions
Robert Meachem and Tracy Porter are Free Agents for the Saints too.
And after all the money they spent on the line last year (especially Evans, the other OG), New Orleans just isn’t in a good place to re-sign Nicks. In fact, I see them making moves to try and draft David DeCastro this year as a replacement (sorry Ups).
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
I'm sure Ups would be ok with getting Nicks
AND possibly a trade with the Saints, moving down this year+first next year.. would take a lot for them but it would really help us
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
heh, I'd be down for Nicks, he's one of a handful of FA's that I'd love to have on the Cheifs
that said, I’d be shocked if the Saints moved up to get DeCastro … and they’d try that only if they were positive they couldn’t re-sign Nicks, and I’d be very surprised if they didn’t figure out a plan to keep ALL of their people
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The Saints are at the same point we were at with our dominant line.
Eventually, something has to give, and you just can’t keep all of them. Nicks will be their John Tait.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 2:06 PM CST up reply actions
I imagine they'd rather he be their Will Shields
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I can't really see them losing Nicks then losing all those picks to move up from the bottom of the
2nd to the top half of the first
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 19, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
Normally, I'd agree.
But the way they run that team, it’s all about the offense and Brees. Everything else just doesn’t matter as much to them.
It would cost a lot to get DeCastro, but the long term payoff (potentially) works out better than paying another huge contract to an OG.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 7:07 PM CST up reply actions
If they had a late first to trade up, it would be likely that it could happen
Without it.. I don’t see anyway they lose Nicks+All those picks.. that team would be in bad bad shape for the future
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 19, 2012 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Ya know what, I forgot that they didn't have a 1st rd pick.
They still won’t be able to keep Nicks, but now they won’t be able to get DeCastro either.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 1:36 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah it would take a hell of a lot for them to move all the way up for a guard
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 20, 2012 5:55 AM CST up reply actions
ok citadel ... so if we turn that around: it would cost us a lot to get Nicks whereas DeCastro should land in our laps, right? :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yes, but we have more needs than the Saints.
If we get Nicks, we can use that 1st rd pick to fill another hole (like RT)…maybe we could even be the team that suckers New Orleans into trading up for DeCastro and collect some very valuable picks.
Believe me, if we just needed the one position, I’d be on board with DeCastro.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 1:33 AM CST up reply actions
I hear ya
guess we see what happens … I agree Nicks would be awesome
is he totally unrestricted? ie, we no owe Saints anything if we sign him?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Just a smart-ass thank you note posted on Arrowhead Pride.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
e can do that! :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
If they hadn't spent all that money to Jhari Evans and Jermon Bushrod last year.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 7:09 PM CST up reply actions
I like the move up
but I say Tag and trade bowe, plus whatever else it takes to get the rams pick. pick up the QB. Just look around the league at the teams that have been successful. Almost all of them are using a drafted QB, and most of those QBs were taken in the first round. Orton hasn’t gotten it done for any team that he has been with. Look at what the Broncos did after Tebow started. Look at what the Bears did with Cutler. Do we have some depth issues? Yes, but most of those can be addressed with FA. FA QBs don’t work.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me"
Without a past, we have no future.
by MarineChiefsFan on Jan 18, 2012 4:28 PM CST reply actions
You know every mock offseason that I see it include
Tag and trade Bowe for a first and Dorsey for a 2nd. I dont see the advantage of trading either of them. Bowe has played far to well to be traded IMO. back to back 1000 yard season with Cassel and Palko throwing to him. Imagine what he could do with a franchise QB. If you trade him to a team with a great QB, just watch he will put up monster seasons. As for Dorsey, if we spent such a high first on him, why not just wait till his last year under contract to see if he breaks out. And IMO he didn’t play so bad. He just doesn’t put up numbers like Freeny Mathis and Abraham. But he is not meant to. We didn’t draft him to be a sack monster, but I think he and Jackson played well.
Dexter McCluster
I agree
Bowe is a low-drama, professional skill player who has big-play ability and none of the typical side-effects that come with that. Dorsey is an essential part of our defense now, his lack of statistical production has more to do with him playing in a 3-4 than lack of actual production. We gotta keep both of those guys.
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 18, 2012 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I have been agreeing with this train of thought about dorsey for a while now 8)
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
I would love to get a first and second for dorsey and bowe!
this Free Agency is loaded with recievers just slightly below bowe’s talent and some (colston, meachum) just as good. dorsey is going to get replaced by bailey anyways and is not working out we seen enough already he is not the same guy he was in college.
give us two first round picks, two second round picks, a third round pick, a fourth round pick, a fifth and so on……..we could do some damage this year.
by the great thunderlips on Jan 18, 2012 8:45 PM CST up reply actions
But Dorsey is working out
He has played well. You just don’t look in to it. You can’t just look at the numbers. And if Colston and Meachum are so good then they will get resigned and quite frankly I would rather have Bowe than either of those two.
Dexter McCluster
I wouldn't go so far as to say Dorsey has played well
He’s very good against the run when single teamed, but very VERY bad at rushing the passer (which he was asked to do 250 times last year).
That glaring weakness leaves some questions regarding him. That said, unless they believe Bailey is ready he needs to be kept for now.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
And my assessment of Dorsey is based on his PFF stats (much deeper than standard stats)
And watching game tape of well over 100 of his snaps. (just to add a little credibility)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
ONLY 100? damn, and here I thought you'd put in some SERIOUS time on it ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Haha it was quite a bit more
But I don’t want to exaggerate accidently…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
To be fair
The bears have not done squat with Cutler either. Just sayin.
That also made me think about how an elite talent at QB is not always all you need.
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
they were doing better with Cutler than with Hanie
if they’d get a better OLine going there and protect the guy a bit … help passing game AND running game, to go with a very strong Defense …
just a thought
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yep
I have been all over the boards expressing that I am cool with making a play for RG3. The thing that got me was when I read this it made me think about the points you just made.
if they’d get a better OLine going there and protect the guy a bit … help passing game AND running game, to go with a very strong Defense …
Just sounds like the chiefs if we drafted a QB without addressing the oline first. With that said I still want RG3 lol
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
That did not work
first time using the block quote, sorry bout that
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
here's what I've seen from Pioli ...
drafting and FA all over the team, filling holes in a scattergun fashion … upgrading the talent, to be sure! but w/o what one could call a “plan” (albeit more D than O, nonetheless …)
thing is, instead of really addressing the OLine he’s gone at it piecemeal, patchwork … now, the Secondary is in good shape assuming Carr returns (needs some depth) and the LB group looks good, DLine is getting there … WR’s look good (assuming Bowe returns) … we have Moeaki and Charles and yes, Asamoah and Hudson, but …
the interior of the OLine as a group is a major chunk of the offense as a whole, as a unit (look at the Saints) and ours is woefully lacking … why am I stuck on DeCastro? because he’s a Top 10 talent and more than likely the BPA as well when we pick, he’d perfect for our ZBS, starts from day one, and gives us a complete interior of the OLine (with Hudson and Asamoah) so we can get back on it in the Red Zone
hell, grab Orton back and we know we can move the sticks … but our short yardage and power game is sorely lacking … DeCastro is a guy who can fix that, for a long time to come (and far cheaper than Nicks)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I see what you are saying
And I dont disagree. Its been obvious from my postings that I am an Orton supporter and have been sense he plated behind Grossman in Chicago. If your scenario played out I would not be opposed to it at all.
I cannot believe that the Chiefs do not make a run at Carl Nicks though which would have a HUGE impact on the o-line and if that works I see trading up as a very viable option. The time would be right to pull the trigger and address RT later in the draft or possibly through FA. I am not one for keeping Brich in the starting line up but I think a case can aso be made that playing next to Nicks may improve his own play as well as having a mobile QB under center may take some of the spot light off BRich long enough to keep him as a starter long enough to either ease a rookie in or address the position next year.
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
Agree MarineChiefsFan. Semper Fi. To be a consistant winner in the NFL you have to have a
top level QB, ortherwise, we’re wasting our time. Get RGIII whatever it takes and then fill in the holes with the rest of the draft and FA. RGIII will fill up Arrowhead and make the offense take off.
I like this trade for the #3 or even #2
For multiple reasons
1. It looks as though we only have one major need assuming we sign a guard in FA. So he could be the final piece to the puzzle
2. I think Vikings and Rams would be more that willing to deal the pick. Obviously, with few major injuries they still find themselves at the top of the draft at have very many holes on their roster.
3. Rams are in major rebuilding mode. They already fixed their coaching problems. While they are at it why not stock up on draft picks?
Thanks for the good read!
Dexter McCluster
hey Drew
left you a note (answer) on the draft thread regarding Burfict (since you asked)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
appreciate it
I’ll come up with some other crazy idea next week…lol…“trade every pick we’ve got for the next two years for Matt Flynn!!!”
by hornetchiefsfan on Jan 18, 2012 4:43 PM CST up reply actions
If we were to move up
it would have to be to #3. And since we have oline and dline issues, i wouldn’t want to give up a lot for a QB who wouldn’t have the protection that he needs to make the plays downfield
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
I'm cool with RGIII
But I literally do not think it’s even a remote possibility. If anything, the Chiefs are going to be more inclined to trade down and acquire more picks. I’m open to them doing anything, but I just think this scenario and others where the Chiefs move up are not going to happen. Wouldn’t mind being wrong.
I agree with this message!
And the reason I say go all in this year is because the Chiefs are real close to winning our division every year for several years even with Cassel.
This is hopefully the last chance for us to move up without any more pain than necessary to get the QBOF.
Build around a franchise quality QB would be the best move the Chief's could do for
the future. Trade up for RGIII.
by jcox31mc on Jan 18, 2012 4:43 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
The Chiefs should trade Cassel and draft o-line with the first 2 picks.
Draft OT with the first pick, someone like R.Reiff, then draft K. Zeitler OG in the 2nd round. Start R.Stanzi behind the improved o-line, if he sucks we can draft Barkley next year and if he’s good the problem is solved either way. We could also throw in a mid round QB like Foles this year. Throw all our good picks at RG3 and not fixing the o-line gets us know where and most likely ends up with RG3 sitting on the bench with a injury and Stanzi starting anyways. RG3 will be a bust because he won’t be able to stay healthy in the NFL where the big boys play, write it down now for future reference so I don’t have to say I told ya so later on.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
The thing is...
this draft IMO is QB strong. I would say any other draft RGIII is a #1 overall if we could get him at #2,3, or 4 that may be a steal. And Barkley was projected maybe at #8 when he was in the mix for being drafted, so is getting him at #1 next year good value?
Dexter McCluster
Just plain dumb to move up and draft a franchise QB.
We would probably have to give up multiple 2nd round picks and miss out on drafting big time studs like Dex, Arenas, and Hudson. I’d much rather have non-starters than a franchise QB.
Why dont we go grab jimmy clausen for a 4th round pick?
The guy was the best QB coming out of high school, went to freaking Notre Damn and did well, maybe just maybe it was to early for him to shine and carolina was just not the right spot for him. whats to lose?
by the great thunderlips on Jan 18, 2012 9:31 PM CST reply actions
a 4th round pick
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Jan 18, 2012 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Easy to say, hard to do
But I’d be thrilled if they did it.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
An offensive line can be built in many ways as it was back under Vermeil but the
chance to get this QB does not happen very often. Get RGIII right now and build around him. Getting him will make it easier to obtain other NFL players that want to win.
Is RGIII better than Cam Newton (2011)?
Sam Bradford (2010)?
Matt Stafford (2009)?
Jamarcus Russell (2007)?
Alex Smith (2005)?
Eli Manning (2004)?
Carson Palmer (2003)?
David Carr (2002)?
Michael Vick (2001)?
The answer is that we don’t know, but the point is that almost every year there are QBs available in the draft who are hyped as potential franchise guys. Some of them turn out to be, and some don’t. How many of these QBs have turned out to be great ones? Half? Less? How many of them would you want to have traded up for?
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
RG3 has a lot less chance of being a total bust than most QBs coming out.
If a pocket passing QB can’t adjust to the pro game he’s screwed. RG3 is different. If anything, he’ll still be able to be a threat with his legs and will always be able to throw a very accurate deep ball. Even if he struggles with other aspects of the game, he will always be able to get by using his legs and hitting home runs down the sidelines to his speedy receivers.
by ChiefsFetish on Jan 19, 2012 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Like Vince Young and Jamarcus Russell?
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Really, those are your comparisons?
A guy who couldn’t throw to save his life (and still has a winning record as starter in NFL btw) and a guy who ran a 4.84 40 time? I guess if those two had a baby together you might’ve had a point.
by ChiefsFetish on Jan 19, 2012 12:56 PM CST up reply actions
So it's time to compare QBs because of 40 times?
How about ya know.. the passing part?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 19, 2012 1:00 PM CST up reply actions
I believe the main point he was making
Is that Young and Russell are terrible comparisons
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Besides
RG3 does not have ANY of the knocks coming out of college that those two did. Russell’s motivation was a concern before being drafted and Young was not considered to go as high as he did untill he pulled out that win in the National Championship game vs USC.
I have not read one report questioning RG3s motivation or his ability to win big games. I think you may be able to compair him to Vic but Vic had accuracy concerns if I recall correctly and I dont think I have herd that about RG3.
My point is every QB (with the exception of (^&^(&* tebow) has knocks on them coming out and we could compair all day long and debunk the comparisons just the same. The fact for me is that I would be happy drafting a talent of that caliber and see where it takes us rather then taking another back up from another team and continue to complain that the Chiefs never take a shot at a ligit QB talent in the draft except every 30 years or so
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
They were both billed as QBs who could move.
The point is that there is no single college trait that guarantees a QB will be a success. Otherwise, there would never be 1st rd busts.
When you say he “has a lot less chance of being a total bust”, that is just flat out wrong. Everyone has a chance of being a total bust. There are several 1st overall picks that prove that point.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 2:02 PM CST up reply actions
It is not flat out wrong.
RG3 offers more than most QBs coming out of college. He has olympic speed, great arm strength, accuracy, and throws one of the best deep balls scouts have ever seen. Not to mention the fact his character has never been questioned and he is regarded as very smart both on and off the field.
Now tell me how many QBs coming out of college have ever brought this much to the table.
by ChiefsFetish on Jan 19, 2012 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
A bunch of them...every year.
Every year, somebody get’s over-hyped as being someone great. All those #1 overall QB picks that busted? They were all supposed to bring so much to the table, and didn’t.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
A "bunch of them" every year?
I beg to differ.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Sure there are.
Look at the draft stock of last year’s QBs. Guys like Kaepernick, Ponder, and Dalton were expected to be 3rd or 4th rd guys at the end of the season, and suddenly got bumped up to 1st and 2nd rd guys by the “experts”. Why? What changed from the end of the season until the draft? Nothing but their hype.
The talking heads get going on these guys and start talking about how they project great down the road. They start tying them in with certain teams and all of a sudden, teams that want them have to start thinking about drafting them earlier. Just like with the stock market, speculation drives a big portion of the train.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 1:31 AM CST up reply actions
None of them were considered franchise QBs though
They were all considered “projects,” at least in the reports I read.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Jan 20, 2012 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker
Look at how the hype changed over both of them. Gabbert was supposed to be a “better QB” than Cam Newton. Jake Locker was a sure thing as the #1 overall pick…and then he was a concern, and then he was a good bet again.
Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Tim Couch, David Carr, etc. They were all “franchise QBs” if you bought into the hype (and most people did). Matt Leinart was supposed to be a sure thing. Mark Sanchez was so good that the Jets traded up for him…and now there are rumblings about them needing a new QB.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
Approaching the draft
I didn’t hear even a whisper about Locker and Gabbert being close to a sure thing.
And with Leinart and Sanchize I heard plenty of negative stuff as well.
Could be we’re just reading different reports as things go along…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Jan 21, 2012 12:52 AM CST up reply actions
Gabbert got plenty of hype. Enough that a couple mocks had him #1 overall at some point.
Locker had most of his hype following the 2010 draft when he decided to return for another year, but that fell off during the 2010 season. However, he started getting hyped back up as we got closer to the draft.
Leinart was supposed to be the #2 overall pick behind Reggie Bush when he came out. He was a Heisman winner and a national champion, and there were a lot of people calling him a franchise QB.
Sanchez didn’t get quite the same hype, but he did get his share. Enough so that the Jets traded up to get him.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 21, 2012 1:29 AM CST up reply actions
I heard just as many questions as answers about all of those guys
Locker was considered too inaccurate and more of an athlete than a QB.
Leinart was considered weak armed and a product of the talent around him. Also questioned was his maturity (thought of as a party boy).
Sanchez’s own coach didn’t think he was ready, and the trade was generally considered a reach.
There’s a counterpoint for every point there. Looking at the pro’s vs. cons for those guys and RG3, I’d say he’s a more rare prospect.
But as you say, he’s no sure thing like Luck (who seems about as close as it gets to “sure”)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
OK.
70% completion percentage.
4.3 speed.
Effortless deep ball.
Graduated from college in 3 years with 3.67 GPA.
Disciplined kid raised by parents in military.
I guess by "every year " you mean never.
by ChiefsFetish on Jan 19, 2012 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
All of that is hype.
And every year there are a bunch of QBs with hype. And they always bring something different that nobody has ever had before (Jamarcus Russell is a great example).
If RGIII somehow falls to us, then great, he’s worth the pick. But if he doesn’t, then there is no way I’m going to support trading up for hype.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 1:24 AM CST up reply actions
Look at Blaine Gabbert from last year's draft.
Supposed to be a “better QB” than Cam Newton, just not as great an athlete. Now everyone is saying that the Jags were dumb for taking him.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 1:39 AM CST up reply actions
I think Gabbert could be a good QB OR COULD'VE BEEN.
Some guys can come right in and play while others need clip board time. Gabbert was the latter IMO and pretty much got thrown to the dogs. Carr is a good example of that the QB that played in Houston.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
Add in the fact you picked the 2 most mentally unstable QBs in history....
by ChiefsFetish on Jan 19, 2012 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
come on, mna ... you cannot discuss mentally unstable QB's without at lease SOME mention of Ryan Leaf
granted he couldn’t run worth a damn, but mentally unstable? oh hell yeah ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
True, but Russell's life coach quit on him.
I think that takes the cake. Plus, I can only imagine what years of sizzurp drinking does to one’s brain.
by ChiefsFetish on Jan 19, 2012 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
And that didn't come to light until after the fact.
If RGIII busts, and there is always a chance for that to happen, then there will be a new reason generated for it. Just like there always is.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 19, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions
Going back 10 years ago Vick may have cost us Downing, Minis, Sims and Freeman.
Sam Bradford (2010) – #1 Berry , #2 Dex and Arenas
Matt Stafford (2009) – #1 Tyson Jax, #2 Alex McGee
(2008) – #1 Dorsey, Alberts, #2 Flowers,
Jamarcus Russell (2007) – #1 Bowe, #2 McBride
(2006) – #1 Hali, #2 Pollard
Alex Smith (2005) – #1 DJ, #2 no pick
Eli Manning (2004) – #1 Siavii, #2 Kris Wilson
Carson Palmer (2003) – #1 L. Johnson, #2 Mitchell
David Carr (2002) – #1 Sims, #2 Freeman
Michael Vick (2001) – #1 Eric Downing, #2 Snoop Minis
(2000) – #1 Sylvester Morris, #2 William Bartee
In most years a sure fire Franchise, Playmaking, Playoff caliber QB is worth a couple of 1sts and a couple of 2nds. The only problem is that the surefire guy is only surefire about half the time. But then again the #1 and #2 choices for the Chiefs have not been sure fire either.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
From 2000 to 2004 our #1 and #2 picks were particularly bleak.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
extended trade scenarios (picks 2-5)
I was working on my own fanpost about what it would take the chiefs to land RGIII but now that hornetchiefsfan has come up with the same subject I’m just going to add a few more trade scenarios: I’ll be looking at what it would cost the Chiefs to move up to any of the spots from 2 to 5 (Rams, Vikings, Browns and Bucs). RGIII certainly wont fall further than the Redskins pick at #6.
I agree with hornet that Cleveland at #4 is the most likely destination for Griffin, if no trades are made. But in the dreamland where I live it could also happen that even the Browns pass on him so that we’d have a chance to grab him at Clevelands spot or at the next one which belongs to the Bucs. This would be the cheapest possible trade scenario although it’s highly unlikely; unfortunately it is much more likely that it goes the other way, since those teams that possibly see RGIII as their QBOTF (Cleveland, Washington or others) could be willing to deal upwards to make sure they get him. IMO any of the teams in the Top 5 that already have their QB would be happy to get more picks via a trade since they have multiples holes to fill (Rams, Vikings, Bucs).
So I’ve calculated how costly each of these trade location would be. In contrast to “hornet” I’m going with the optimistic version: I have the Chiefs picking at #11 (assuming we win the flip). According to the trade chart pick #11 is worth 1250 Points (for #12 it would be 50 points less, the value of a low 4th round pick). The values for our possible landling spots are 2600 for pick #2, 2200 for #3, 1800 for #4 and 1700 for #5. The intervals between picks in the Top 5 are quite big.
So if our first round pick that values 1250 is part of the deal we would have to pay the Rams another 1350 points in picks, the Vikings 950, the Browns 550 and the Bucs 450. So these are some more or less realistic scenarios what we’d have to pay additionally:
- Rams at #2: 1st 2013 (1000) + 3rd (215) + 3rd 2013 (170) = 1385
- Vikings at #3: 2nd (470) + 4th (80) + 2nd in 2013 (375) = 925
- Browns at #4: 2nd (470) + 4th (80) = 550
- Bucs at #5: 2nd (470)
(next years picks calculated with 80% of this years value)
9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur
Wow! awsome statistics ezoo
I think Pioli might have a plan like if he goes past the Browns I will trade up! Great find
Dexter McCluster
Good numbers, but you have missed one aspect.
The Rams are expected to trade away that pick. That means there is likely to be competition for it. Unfortunately, I doubt they will give us the I-70 discount. They’re going to run up the price tag, which means we’ll be competing with teams like Washington, Miami, and maybe even Cleveland (who has an extra 1st rd pick to bargain with).
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 20, 2012 1:22 AM CST up reply actions
sure
The scenarios are just an approximation, as is the tradechart in itself. But to how do you approach a deal like that? You set yourself a limit and make your offer. The rest is a matter of luck. I agree, there will be competition between two or three, maybe even four teams, and maybe someone – like Cleveland – is willing to overpay a lot.
Although I’d really like to get RG I wouldn’t go all in but maybe offer slightly more than what the trade chart suggests. Something like 30% on top, respectively one pick extra with each pack.
9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur
I do think we have an extra bargainning chip, although it's not something I want us to do.
We could throw in Glenn Dorsey. The Rams need a lot of help on the defensive side of the ball. Trading back with us could really help out if they got Dorsey as a DT.
Now, for us, this is entirely dependent on whether or not Bailey (or someone else) is ready to take Dorsey’s spot. I don’t know that we have anyone ready to step in like that. But, if Pioli/Crennel think we do, then I would be slightly more open to the idea of trading up.
However, for now, and basically until this trade actually happens, I am against it.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Jan 21, 2012 1:23 AM CST up reply actions
Combining draft trades with player trades adds a whole new dimension to this.
And I’m all for it. I’m fine with sending Dorsey to St Louis or Minnesota if that gets us RGIII. Keep in mind that we are dealing with who could be a franchise QB for many years – the single most important factor for a teams success. Of course, solving this problem, the biggest problem, does create other problems. It leaves a hole somewhere else, like in the D-Line for instance. Problems that are much easier to deal with though, either via free agency or via the draft.
Ideally we could include Matt Cassel in the trade. Having a good backup QB is quite important in todays NFL, as this season has proven once again. Therefore getting an above-average backup QB as a part of a draft pick deal could make sense to some of those GMs. Probably not too much though.
Anyway, here is my dream-deal: After the Rams have picked Matt Kalil, we swap 1st rd picks with the Vikings and send them two 2nd rd picks, next years 4th plus Matt Cassel. Lol.
9er/chiefs fan from berlin – berlin is in germany – not a native speaker – mistakes may occur
RG3 WAY TO GO
RG3 ALL WHAT IS NEEDED IN A QUARTERBACK, i agree, the chiefs are only a few components from having a contending team, keep, orton or cassell compete at camp for the starting position with RG3, stanza to the P.S., O-line, another bigger back to spell JC.
Pass catching Tight End to go along with Tony M.
RG3 would be perfect in Kansas City
And Teach them how to hit our defense, all but DJ, and TH. bring, A lot of the fan base did not like Pollard but the dude could bring it, we really don’t want to be labeled as having a soft Defense, and missing tackles trying to be cute.
He is the TRUTH

RAC City. I predict an AFC West crown in 2012. If Cassel is not the QB, Chiefs will go deep into the playoffs and possibly make some sizable upsets. It all depends how healthy the team gets but Superbowl aspirations for sure.
by 58 was my friend on Jan 20, 2012 1:02 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
no ... he is PHOTOSHOPPED
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
no ... he is NOT
The equipment is however
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 20, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
oh, my mistake ... I stand corrected, thank you, kind Sir! ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
That picture looks like something in Madden to me haha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 20, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Pioli has a history
of hoarding picks rather than squandering them. RGIII will not be an option.
"The Hammer"
Pioli has a history of doing that when he has a franchise QB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 20, 2012 9:23 AM CST up reply actions
someone went over to the Packers site and did some research on Finley ...
not the kind of guy we want on our team … greedy and selfish type … think “LeSean Jackson” me-first player
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
You mean Desean?
Lesean is the RB..
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 20, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, that one
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
your not crazy
we all would love this to happen but and need it to happen but it seems to me ppl don’t want a superbowl in kc if ppl open their eyes and look around the ONLY thing we really need to get there is a QB we had one 30 years ago and what did we do win it all we have a great D and if you add RG3 we will win a superbowl within the next 5 yrs period that’s what I think I agree with you 100%!!!
by kcchiefs2782 on Jan 24, 2012 3:23 PM CST via Android app reply actions

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