Dispelling Myths
by Crown Chief on Jan 17, 2012 1:19 PM CST
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PrintTo be honest I'm writing this because I am tired of a few pessimistic outlooks here at AP. Things like the Chiefs are cheap, Pioli will never make a move a QB because of his ego and love for Cassel, and this underlying theme that they don't want to win or its not at the top of their priority list. I don't buy into these story lines and after the jump I hope to show you why. I could be wrong, maybe I'm the delusional one, but I think I can make a decent case.
One thing is for sure, we will find out what the Chiefs are made of this offseason, as how they handle the QB situation and what hey do in free agency, especially with Bowe and Carr's contracts or lack thereof. Lets address the first notion that the Chiefs are cheap, thus meaning Bowe and/or Carr will walk and we won't make any key acquisitions. According to Pioli and local media, last August, the Chiefs had spent 119 million on players. This figure includes the Hali extension, but not the Flowers extension. Now, the Chiefs don't release details to their contracts, but based on similar contracts I've looked at Flowers probably got paid around 15 million this past season, which came in the form of a 11 million dollar signing bonus and a 4 million dollar base. So for what we might call a fiscal year, we know the Chiefs are willing to spend up to 134 million on players. Remember, cash spent is not the same as the CAP figures. And this seems legitimate from a business standpoint since the Chiefs receive, and I'm probably low balling this, 150 million in shared revenue from the league. So before he sells a single ticket Hunt's main labor cost, and probably the stadium financing are covered. So, lets take a hypothetical look at this coming offseason and see what the budget looks like for 2012, based on what we KNOW Clark is willing to spend. Here is what the Chiefs owe to their players already under contract; their 1st figure is their base salary and the one in () is a bonus if applicable. I rounded up for even numbers and to account for things like workout bonuses.
Albert - 1.1
Arenas - .5
Asamoah - .5
Bailey - .4*
Bair - .4
Baldwin - .9
Belcher - 1* [tender]
Berry - 3.9
Breaston - 1.8(1.5)
Brown - .4
Cassel - 5.3
Charles - 3.3
Colquitt - 1.8
Copper - .9*
Dorsey - 4.4
Flowers - 4(3)*
Gafford - .7
Greenwood - .6
Hali - 14*
Harris - .4*
Houston - .5
Hudson - .6*
Jackson - 2.5
DJ - 3
Lewis - .5
McCluster - .5
Miller - .4*
Mims - .4*
Moeaki - .5
Powe - .4*
Sheffield - .4
Siler - .8*
Stanzi - .5*
Studebaker - 1.5
Succop - 2(2)
Williams - 1.5
TOTAL: 68.1
*Denotes estimate due to undisclosed terms, based on comparative contracts
So we assume all those guys make the roster (Lilja isn't up there because I think he will get cut) we would spend 68.1 million dollars, leaving us 65.9 million for rookies and free agency if Hunt was to spend 134 million again. The Texans, who drafted 11th last year, had 5.6 million to spend per their rookie pool. Lets assume we draft at 11, the rookie pool goes up to 6, and then lets add another half a million for practice squad players and camp bodies. So after we take that out that leaves us with 59.4 million for veteran free agents. Lets take a hypothetical look at what that will buy:
I think Carr can get Jonathan Joseph money on the open market. They are similar players considering their measurables and Joseph played across a good player as well at Cinci in Leon Hall. Joseph got 5 years 48.75 million, 23.5 guaranteed. I think Carr will be flexible with us since he wants to stay a Chief and sign for 6 years 50.6 million, 22 guaranteed, same Flowers got. Some may think that is too much for one position, but if you have to overpay, it should be at QB, CB, and pass rushers. Hunt would have to shell out 15 million in 2012; 11 for a signing bonus and a 4 million base.
I think Bowe is perfect for the franchise tag. It will give us options. We can trade him for two 2nd rounders, give him an extension in August, or have him play under the tag. My vote is for the latter, considering Bowe has issues with motivation. We can get a lot of production out of him playing for a contract. Last year Vincent Jackson played under the tag for 11.5 million. Lets assume it goes up to 12 million.
I think Pioli wanted to get to know McClain better before he gave him an extension. Fullbacks are seen as a luxury, but he will be a necessity on 3rd and short, and 4th and short. If we get an OC who uses him that is. Leach got 3 years 11 million in Baltimore and is considered the best FB in he league. We should be able to sign him for 3 years, 9 million. It would cost 5 million in 2012, 3 million bonus and 2 in base.
This should be a cheap re-signing. Gordan provides good depth on the defensive line. 1 year, 1.1 million.
Another cheap re-signing. Daniels is good depth. 1 year, 900,000.
RECAP: so far we have shelled out 34 million on our own players. That means we only have 25.4 million left to actually improve the football team, besides the impact from the draft. So if we want a big name there is only room for one. This will help me segue into disproving the other myth: that Scott Pioli is married to Matt Cassel and won't make a splash at QB.
I don't understand why people think Pioli is blind to what is obvious, that Cassel has limitations that will limit the potential of a team. People often come up with the narrative that he wouldn't do it because of his ego, that he doesn't want to admit to a mistake. First, Cassel wasn't a mistake. We were desperate for a QB and the options in the draft were very risky. Cassel helped hold the fort, won the division, and is a class act. Pioli intentionally structured the contract so he could get out of it in three years. Where do people get the notion they are married? Pioli isn't stupid, he knows the importance of the QB position. The question is, will there be an opportunity to upgrade and one in which will entice Pioli. The answer is yes...
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I know I just opened up a new can of worms, but lets look at the logic and address the obvious concerns and obstacles before we jump to conclusions. The first obstacle is Manning's availability. Everyone knows this, but if the Colts owner keeps Manning and Luck it will cost him 50 million dollars for the QB position. I don't care what people say, he isn't going to pay that. That is what the Yankees spend on starting pitching, and at least all of them contribute, whereas Luck will be on the bench. Luck is ready to start now, the Colts are in rebuilding mode, Manning isn't the only one getting long in the tooth. His contract makes him virtually impossible to trade, they will have no option but to release him. I'm sure it will be mutual, they will do it in a classy way, maybe even with a press conference for Manning to say thanks and good bye. 49ers did it with Montana, Green Bay with Favre, it happens.
Now we have to address obstacle two: his health. What good is he if he is damaged goods. I don't think there is any question he will have the physical capability to play, but will his neck be too vulnerable? I'm not sure about this part, I'm not a doctor, but I'm optimistic. Colon, the Yankees pitcher, had the same experimental stem cell surgery and said it was like the fountain of youth. Here is an article on his progress.
The last obstacle is him actually signing with us. We would be the favorites out of all the suitors. We have the weapons, the money, and the perfect coach for Manning, a mild mannered defensive genius. His wife DEMANDS privacy, they just had twins, I think they would prefer to stay in the mid west, take that south beach! Our division is weak, I don't think he wants to play against his brother in the NFC east. The Jets are like us in terms of appealing talent, but they are actually married to Sanchez and its a circus in NY right now, plus they don't have the cap space. And although insignificant, there would be a cool narrative with the parallel drawn between Manning and Montana.
And the beauty of all of this is that its still in Hunt's budget. We could probably get Manning for 2 years, 34 million. It would cost us 16 million signing bonus and a 6 million base for 22 million in 2012. Now if we got Manning Cassel would have to be traded because it would be awkward and we need more money for veteran free agents. I think he is worth a 4th and makes a lot of sense in Seattle. That takes money off the books and gives us about 8.7 million left for our budget. Assuming 8 of the 9 draft picks make the team the Chiefs would still need 4 more players, and they would have to come cheap. Here are some guys that make sense:
I think the law firm would be a good in between the tackles compliment to Charles. We could probably get him cheap, as the Patriots don't need him after drafting two RBs last draft and the RB market will be saturated. Something like 4 years, 9 million and only costing us 3 million for 2012.
You probably have't heard his name much with the exception of his infamous kick return, but he is a solid starting interior lineman who can play all 3 interior line positions. I think he should take Lilja's place at LG. He is a lot bigger than Lija so he had that going for him. I'd say we can get him for 3 years 7.5 million, costing us 3 million in 2012.
I think this would be a good value sign. A knee injury kept him from producing in San Francisco this past year. I think he could at least bounce back to provide us with good production as a 4th WR. He really won't have that many options and would probably like to play for Crennel again. I like the 4th WR to be a down field threat, the defense can be lulled to sleep, especially with our core. 1 year, 2 million.
We only have 700,000 left in the budget so we are forced to sign a shitty player. I think Daboll, the current Dolphins OC, would be a good fit for KC. I imagine there will be staff turnover once the new HC is hired. So thats why I would predict Henne to KC since he would be familiar with the system. I think Stanzi wins the backup job though and will benefit greatly studying behind Manning. And at least Henne is better than Palko. 1 year, 700,000.
And there you have it. We didn't go over budget, retained all of our good talent, with maybe the exception of Gilberry, and got a franchise QB. The rest of the holes will need to be filled on draft day, but I think we are in great position to fill those needs. We might as well take this hypothetical offseason all the way, so here is an an arbitrary, but realistic mock draft using the National Football Post to project players talents and where they will go in the draft. Click on their name to read the scouting report.
1. David DeCastro (T/G, Stanford)
3. Zebrie Sanders (OT, Florida St)
4a. Aaron Henry (FS, Wisconsin)
4b. Winston Guy Jr. (SS, Kentucky)
6. Matt Conrath (DE, Virginia)
7a. Bobby Rainey (RB, Western Kentucky)
7b. David Snow (C, Texas) - practice squad
Let me conclude by dispelling the last myth: that Pioli and Hunt don't care about winning and are too concerned with other things. People point to Hunt's "cheapness", but the fact of the matter is we spend around league average. People point to the latest Star article to prove that Pioli spends his time micro-managing the entire organization, obsessing over minutia like candy wrappers and pens. Read the book War Room, it goes into detail why Pioli had to be a prick. There were a lot of people who weren't focused, who didn't give a shit about winning, and it was a deeply entrenched culture because of Peterson's long tenure. The one thing that was conveyed in the book, is that Pioli doesn't give a shit about PR, and that obviously shows. He doesn't care about the entertainment aspect of the game, he wants the glory. And we are so close to that glory, don't think otherwise Chiefs fans. Just look at the roster below and tell me that isn't championship caliber, at least on paper.
OFFENSE
WR: Baldwin, Edwards
LT: Albert, Sanders
LG: Connolly, Harris
C: Hudson, Connolly
RG: Asamoah, Harris
RT: DeCastro, Mims
TE: Moeaki, Allen, Ellison
SR: Breaston, McCluster
WR: Bowe, Copper
QB: Manning, Stanzi, Henne
RB: Charles, Green-Ellis, McCluster, Rainey
FB: McClain
DEFENSE
RDE: Bailey, Bair, Conrath
NT: Dorsey*, Powe
LDE: Jackson, Gordan
WOLB: Hali, Sheffield, Miller
WILB: DJ, Williams, Greenwood
SILB: Belcher, Siler
SOLB: Houston, Studebaker
CB: Carr, Brown, Daniels
CB: Flowers, Arenas
SS: Berry, Guy Jr.
FS: Lewis, Henry
SPECIAL TEAMS
K: Succop
P: Colquitt
LS: Gafford
R: Arenas, McCluster
*Dorsey would only have to gain 12 pounds in the offseason to have the same measurables as Kelly Gregg. A 5 tech and a zero tech have the same two gap responsibilities, its just a different match up. Dorsey's skills translate well to NT as he is our best run defender. Bailey adds a pass rush at RDE that we need bad, especially if an opponent throws on 1st down.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Some of your salary numbers are way low.
Just as an example, Flowers, who I looked up the other day, is due $5.75M in salary in ‘12, and due to the $10M signing bonus he got last year, his cap number will be about $7.5M. We are among the lowest payroll in the league, but we have nowhere near $50M in space, let alone the $60M you quote. I saw a report somewhere saying we are about $30M under, so if we signed Bowe, Carr, and Orton, like so many here pine for, we’d be done spending…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I think he is saying the extra $20 million is coming from the people who won't be back next year
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
We don't have any expensive players leaving.
The free agents are already without contracts, so even if we lose Bowe and Carr both, it doesn’t change the numbers.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I had to estimate Flowers numbers...
because the Chiefs never released the contract details. I just assumed he got the signing bonus, when he signed the contract. So I estimated he would make about 7 million to cover the rest of the guaranteed money. And I’m not talking about CAP figures, I’m talking about cash spent. The $30M under is how much we were under the salary cap for the 2011 season.
How embarrassing you and nmchief wore the same pic ; )
………….just cruised thru the post looks interesting, I’ll finish later. Love DeCastro and Guy jr.
"Well, I'm near the end and I... just ain't got the time........"
LOL
I’m not trying to be an ass or diss the post, either. I’ve been looking at this, though, and we aren’t as far under the cap as people want to believe…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Do we know what this whole 'salary floor' thing looks like when it's finally in action?
I’m just not up on that part of the new CBA. It seemed pretty complex but I just wanted to see if anyone had a good read on it at this point. Like, is any part of it in action this offseason (to gear up for it next season?) I remember hearing there is a difference between cash spent and the salary cap numbers, which will the floor rules affect?
Posterized. | @ | Fb
by Chris Sembower on Jan 17, 2012 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
Ha
Agreed. I’m just trying to find a reason to avoid the “obvious discussion” today ;)
Posterized. | @ | Fb
by Chris Sembower on Jan 17, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
There is a league-wide floor in effect now.
The league as a whole has to spend 99% of the cap, or reimburse the players for the difference. But there is no team floor until 2013. Starting then, not only will the league have to spend 99%, but no individual team can spend less than 89%. I’m not totally sure, but I think that number raises a percent or two a year until the team limit gets up to 95% or something.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I know, but cash spent is irrelevant. Only cap numbers really matter here.
Hunt has been fairly generous with the actual cash since Pioli was hired (JC $8M bonus, Hali $10M bonus, Flowers $10M bonus) but Pioli is great as massaging the cap.
A couple more examples… Charles cap number is $3.25M salary plus $1.33M signing bonus proration for a total of $4.58M. Breaston’s is $1.8M salary plus $1M signing bonus proration plus $.4M roster bonus proration for a total of $3.2M. It all adds up fast when you have to pay 53 guys.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I see what you are saying...
but I’m confident the scenario above would be under the CAP. Just doing the math in my head the new signings would be about a 30M dollar CAP hit. I’m sure Hali’s CAP figure got higher, but Cassel got paid like 11M last year, so it balances out. I’m not worried about getting under the CAP, I’ve seen teams with way more expensive payrolls find some way to get under the CAP.
It could work this year, but only this year...
That’s what signing bonuses are for… giving a player the $10M he wants now, but with a $3M cap number this year. But if you sign three or four big name free agents and resign one or two of our own at big bucks, then it blows up in two or three years. Every year teams like Dallas, Washington, and the Jets have to cut a couple guys they want to keep and renegotiate a couple deals to get under the cap and sign their next “savior.” Then the renegotiated contracts and that guy’s deal blow it up again the next year, and so on.
What teams like the Patriots do, and what Pioli has done really well so far, is sign value free agents, instead of big names, to deals friendly to the team, preventing those issues in the first place.
Flowers is a great example of this. He got a 5 year, $50M extension. He and his agent go home happy with the “$10M a year” deal they negotiated. But by doing it as an extension like they did, the $10M signing bonus actually gets split over 6 years at $1.7M per year. He has cap numbers of $2.7M, $7.45M, $9.95M, and $7.75M for the first four years. The last two years, ‘15 at $10.75 against the cap and ’16 at $12M against the cap, are probably never even going to happen. If he declines, they will cut or trade him, and if he is still kicking ass by then, they’ll extend him again, with a big bonus check and low cap numbers for several years. Even though every news outlet reported on his $10M per year deal, he only actually got $10M in cash once ($11M total this year) and probably won’t ever count $10M against the cap… That’s the way we do business under Pioli, and it’s not going to change.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Good Points
I’m not a captologist so I’m not sure what the best structure of the deal would look like. For long term strategy, I think this is why Bowe doesn’t get a long term deal, Manning is off the books in 2 years, and hopefully an annual increase in the salary cap with help with the back loading of the deals. I mean Bowe alone would give us 12M in cap space after he comes off the books in 2013. I think you could see a lot of guys walk in this scenario next offseason. Bowe, Albert and Dorsey. But, after we win the Super Bowl we won’t care!
I think of it as a serrated Blade
with the ups in one players salary years as the lows in anothers.
Obviously with the way Pioli works a contract with up and down salary years he is trying to fit in all the best players over time.
Peyton might blow that strategy out of the Water
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 20, 2012 6:50 PM CST up reply actions
If the Eagles could do what they did last year
I’m sure Pioli can figure it out if we want to be active in FA.
I like a lot of your ideas, not far fetched (Skitzo-ish) ; )
….I really don’t think Manning would want to go to a cold or un-domed team. He might not have as many options as he thinks but a dome or warmer weather setting seems to be more his style.
What I will say is that if you replace Manning with Orton in your scenario, The Chiefs would be a playoff contender, not a Championship team. Manning would bring that to the table. IMHO Orton gives you the most realistic shot at your post.
"Well, I'm near the end and I... just ain't got the time........"
by Masons on Jan 17, 2012 2:43 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
Did you just suggest Kyle Orton will give us a better shot at a championship than Peyton Manning?
I agree ... I think Orton is "good enough" to get to the playoffs ... esp with the above draft and signings
Mom always liked you best!
excuse me Sir.....I don't know how to say this but there seems to be some DeCastro DNA in that pic of yours ; )
"Well, I'm near the end and I... just ain't got the time........"
if you have already replaced Lilja with a FA
why draft DeCastro?
I think Lilja is back for at least one more year, btw
I think DeCastro can play right tackle in the NFL, well I think he can excel at RT in the NFL. Lilja had a really shitty year and I think Connolly provides more versatility to the line, which I think Pioli likes. If Lilja does stay I would still draft DeCastro, projecting him to play RT. I’m not very high on Martin, Adams is going to be suspended like Pryor (I think), and I don’t think Reiff will fall to 11.
Technically, you haven't dispelled any myths.
I like your scenarios, but Pioli hasn’t done anything yet. If we lose Carr or Bowe, if we don’t sign Manning, you will have instead just perpetuated the myth. Odds are good Cassel will be starting opening day.
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
That's what I was thinking...
but can you ever really dispell a myth? Nice post anyway. I was hooked after the “lilja gets cut”
Sure. "All swans are white." You only have to find one black swan and voila'!
but can you ever really dispell a myth
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Jan 17, 2012 5:37 PM CST up reply actions
Cash spent
is beyond irrelevant.
The other 31 teams also spent more “cash” than their cap number. Taking multiple years and comparing them to one year totals is silly. Referencing company shill Adam Teicher’s report of a Chief’s press release about how much money they are spending does nothing for your argument.
Fact: The Chiefs have spent $119 million less than the average NFL team over the last 4 years.
Fact: The Chiefs actually reduced payroll to their lowest level since 2002 in 2011.
Fact: Over the past 4 seasons, 29 of the other 31 teams are closer to the average payroll than the Chiefs are to the 30th highest. ($69 million below the Bengals)
Fact: (and thank God for this one) The Chiefs will HAVE to add $35 million in payroll by the 2013 season.
I actually enjoyed the rest of your post, I have simply seen no evidence that the Chiefs will make that move up in payroll (or a large part of it) this year, when they don’t have to, as opposed to next year when they must.
To be honest my best hope is a rather Machiavellian theory of a good friend of mine. He says that Pioli wanted to get rid of Haley, and reduced payroll and refused to address depth to hamstring him and make that possible. (Although even if you wanted to believe that, with a relatively injury free season we probably would have won the division again.) His theory is that with Haley gone, Pioli and Hunt will open up the coffers this year in hopes that it will provide further “evidence” that Haley was holding us back.
I am not sure I can bring myself to believe that, but any scenario that has the Chiefs spending more in line with the league this year gives me hope.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
by KHAZAD on Jan 17, 2012 4:56 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
I may sound like a corporate shrill...
but the last 4 seasons are skewing things a little. There is no doubt since Hunt took over the team the Chiefs have had very low payrolls. But that is because we had a radical youth movement. We were rebuilding so it didn’t make sense for Hunt to dish out huge contracts. And maybe he could have spent a lot more, but he was probably recouping his $150M he put into the stadium. I know, he is a billionaire, but at the end of the day it is a business.
Last year
was the lowest of the 4, with an established division winner. We started blowing up the team in 2007 and pretty much finished it in 2008. Many other teams have rebuilt in that time, some more than once. How many years will we use this as an excuse? Will we still be talking about blowing up the team after 4 more years? There are 7 guys on the team that were here in 2007 before the blowup, 10 more have been here since 2008, and 9 others since 2009. Almost half the team, or about normal.
The Green Bay Packers had only one more player than us who was on their roster in 2009. The Dallas Cowboys (the highest spending team) had only one more player than us. The Baltimore Ravens (a final four team and the only team to make the playoffs each of the last 4 seasons) had the same amount. as us. The Patriots had two less than us, the Giants had two more than us, the Niners had 4 less than us. There is turnover on every team, and the time for excuses is over.
This year’s final four teams (leaving out the high spending Cowboys and the defending champion Packers) spent an average of $33 million more than us this year, and an average of $125 million more over the last 4. It is simply a different level of effort in unique time where the teams had a little more leeway in policing themselves.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
Braylon Edwards?
C’mon mang
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 17, 2012 5:15 PM CST reply actions
thysm
shymt
symth
ohhhhhhhhhh, I thought it was misspelling myths!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
you mean LG?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I think Cassel has earned the money so far, just look at all the big hits he had to take
and he just got up and kept at it. To bad about his hand and by the way, I think Daboll may happen. Is it Henne or Moore, if he is let go by the new regime? Thanks for the post
Nice projection, enjoyed reading
Question – If we draft DeCastro, why not play him at LG? We could firm up RT via FA or in the draft. Could we find a starting caliber RT in the first 3 rounds?
Twitter: @RaiderHater86
I looked at the FA market...
and didn’t see anyhing that would help without overpaying. I think Sanders might be able to start at RT, but I don’t think that is something you want to count on. I think DeCastro can excel at RT.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Jan 17, 2012 9:30 PM CST up reply actions
It seems that Asamoah is very good at Pass Blocking
and Albert is very good at run blocking
Why not pair them on the left side and have DeCastro who is excellent in Run Blocking at RG to help our stronside running game? of course, paired with a better all around RT
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 20, 2012 6:55 PM CST up reply actions
how would you like ...
DeCastro and Osemele as our first two picks? FYI, I think DeCastro would be good on either side, but he’s a very good pass blocker as well … LG/RG works for me, though
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
DeCastro at RG and Albert at LT
Road-graiders :)
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 20, 2012 9:02 PM CST up reply actions
A few things
This is the 1st offseason that I can remember in a long time that we actually have more than 1 player we need to resign. If I had my choice, I would franchise Carr and dangle him and Dosey and picks to the Colts for the number 1 pick. I think that would be very tempting for a team that really needs help at d-line and corner. Between Bowe and Carr,Bowe has the better chance of resigning(IMO), so i would hate to see Carr leave and all we get for him is a crappy 5th round compensatory draft pick from the league.
If Carr does leave, I think he is going to be grossly overpaid by some desperate team out there.He is a decent corner, but far from the Reves’s and the Champ Bailey’s of the league. We do have 3 corners still on this team, Arenas, Daniels and Brown. I may be in the minority on this , but I think Daniels can come in and do just fine , while Brown continues to develop. Brown has great size and athletic ability. In a couple years we may saying Brandon who?
I am with you on Gordon( although I thought he signed a 2 year deal) lets not make the same mistake we made with Shaun Smith. McClain I am hot and cold on. Full backs are a dime a dozen for the most part. He is a versitile player , but I don’t see him as a must retain guy and I don’t like the figure you put on him. 3 years 9 million doesn’t seem like much , then again, Vonta Leach , who many consider to be the best FB in the NFL got 3 years 11 million from Baltimore. And McClain is no where near the blocker Leach is.
Leach,Kuhn, McClain are all good players and all went undrafted. There are cheaper ,younger options out there
Before I go any further, I have to say kudos for putting Bobby Rainey on that list. I think the guy is the next Arian Foster. I would love to have him on this team
Here is the part that really irks me….Peyton Manning. This fan base has to get over this crippling fear of drafting a QB in the 1st round. Why do we need to be the homeless shelter for every retread QB , that had any modicum of success in the NFL? First of all. I disagree totally on what you think we can get Manning for. If he comes here it is probably going to be a 3 year 50 million dollar deal, around 30 of it guaranteed.
Which brings us to the next problem, health. The guy has had 3 neck surgeries in 2 years and he is resorting to experimental stem cell therapy in Europe. That isn’t good news. The guy is a violent cough away from becoming a quadriplegic . I think the guy is done. But, lets say that he isn’t done. How many years does this guy have left? 2 maybe 3 years at most. Couple that with the fact he is 9-10 in the playoffs and , well, I just don’t think you will get much return on that massive investment. Package Carr and Dorsey and maybe a Studebaker plus picks for Andrew Luck. That makes much more sense than Manning
If you can’t get the Colts to bite , then try and resign Orton(can’t believe I just said that) and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round. If you can’t do that, then you better cross your fingers and pray Stanzi is the next Tom Brady. But make no mistake, all this free agent talk is useless unless we can get a HEALTHY franchise QB very soon.
Speaking of free agency, I don’t feel great about those guys on that list
Benjarvis Green Ellis- 3 yards and a cloud of dust running backs can be had anywhere(in fact we have 2 on the roster right now) he is a nice goal line back, then again , his interior line is a lot better than ours. Not to mention he would laugh at that low ball number
Dan Connel is a guy I like, then again where would you put him? His best position is center and we just invested a 2nd round pick on 1 last year.
Braylon Edwards – Uh… no way in hell. Edwards may be the most overrated WR in the league. He has attitude problems(in fact he got benched this year because of performance) and his hand makes Dwayne Bowe’s look like Fred Biletnikoff. I will say though that Crennel got the most out of him in Cleveland
Chad Henne- Hell , in that case just resign Orton,or better yet sign Brady Quinn from Denver instead.
But to get back to the gist of this post, I don’t think you dispelled any ’’myth’’ about Hunt being cheap.I have been 1 of the biggest Hunt/ Pioli critics on here and I wear it proudly like a junior G-man badge. This team had the 2nd lowest payroll in the NFL this year. Now , with the new CBA, Hunt has to spend money in 2012, but that doesn’t mean the guy isn’t cheap , it just means the league is trying to weed out owners like him. Having a low pay roll is great , if you are the Packers and have elite drafting and a franchise QB. But, Piolis drafts have been suspect at best. Speaking of Pioli, this reputation he has is nothing new. It is fine to micro manage when you have Brady and Bellichick on your sideline. But, he doesn’t have that here and he went the same old patriot way route, when it came to the HC. Jeff Fisher said no thanks to Pioil. Like Soren Petro said, it’s not the fact we couldn’t get Fisher, it is the fact Fisher didn’t even consider this job.why
St. Louis over KC ,are you kidding me! St. Louis is a train wreck with almost no talent. Not to mention a disfunctional ownership group. I think Pioli and Hunt together is just a bad combination going forward
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 18, 2012 12:14 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
“This is the 1st offseason that I can remember in a long time that we actually have more than 1 player we need to resign” -
- I am not sure if that is correct, but if it is true I would say it would be a credit to Pioli (locking up guys like Hali, Charles, Flowers, etc). I would ‘ideally’ like to see this team consistently resign homegrown talent, or get really good/great trade value for them before they become UFA.
“I may be in the minority on this , but I think Daniels can come in and do just fine , while Brown continues to develop. Brown has great size and athletic ability. In a couple years we may saying Brandon who?” -
- I must also be in the minority, because I think Daniels will also do just fine. He has made mistakes out there, but I have seen him get a couple of picks as well. Brown could end up being a great pick but need more time to tell. I agree that we could lose Carr (or Bowe for that matter) and still be alright (but not both Carr and Bowe…ouch) but I would really like to resign them if it is at all possible.
“Leach, Kuhn, McClain are all good players and all went undrafted. There are cheaper ,younger options out there” -
- We drafted a FB from Yale last year…if they guy can be a legit starter we could easily pass on McClain.
“Before I go any further, I have to say kudos for putting Bobby Rainey on that list. I think the guy is the next Arian Foster. I would love to have him on this team.” -
- Haven’t heard of Bobby Rainey but I will check him out.
“Here is the part that really irks me….Peyton Manning. This fan base has to get over this crippling fear of drafting a QB in the 1st round. Why do we need to be the homeless shelter for every retread QB that had any modicum of success in the NFL?” -
- HELL NO to Peyton Manning. I don’t want ANY QB until we get the line ‘tight’…it is NOT ‘tight’ yet (Let Cassel / Orton be the cannon fodder**). Once that is done THEN either start Stanzi (still think this guy is going to be Tom Brady’esk) or if he is not ‘The Manzi’, go after a 1st round QB, or land a quality Free Agent QB.
O-LINE FIRST!!!
“Benjarvis Green Ellis” -
- Better RBs to be had. Will still get looked at because of his Pat’s connection alone.
“Dan Connel” -
- Line is NOT done, keep a quality FA steam coming in until we have a quality player WE drafted in every position on the line (LT – LG – C – RG – RT). Hudson played both Center AND Guard (gotta love the versatile picks) so if Connel can fill the C role until G and RT is locked down… so be it.
“Braylon Edwards” -
- Don’t like the guy to much, however, if Bowe leaves we will need to do something in the WR position.
“Chad Henne” -
- This is what really irks ME…People who say “Matt Cassel is not the answer at QB”. If you think this way get a sheet of paper, get a pen, then write the following 10 times “Matt Cassel was never MEANT to be the answer at QB”. Let me tell you what Matt Cassel was (and IS) meant to be…they guy that gets beat to sh!t while they rebuild the team. I think Matt Cassel knows that, has accepted that, and has done a better job then I ever thought he would at doing just that. Every Chiefs fan (IMO) should be grateful as the day is long for what Matt Cassel has (and will continue to) done (do) for this team.
“Piolis drafts have been suspect at best. Speaking of Pioli, this reputation he has is nothing new. It is fine to micro manage when you have Brady and Bellichick on your sideline. But, he doesn’t have that here and he went the same old patriot way route, when it came to the HC. Jeff Fisher said no thanks to Pioil. Like Soren Petro said, it’s not the fact we couldn’t get Fisher, it is the fact Fisher didn’t even consider this job. why?” -
- Control pure and simple. Fisher wants more control the Pioli will (or should) give…glad we didn’t get him, Pioli/RAC > Fisher.
“I think Pioli and Hunt together is just a bad combination going forward” -
- ??? I like a LOT of things Pioli has done and weather you admit it or not you do too. Hudson, Brown, Arenas, Daniels you seem to like…I hope you are not mad because he locked up Flowers, Hali, Charles to long term deals…Not sure what you think about Huston, Berry, Moeaki, Stanzi, or RAC as head coach picks.
I see it like this
Yes, Scott Pioli did lock up some guys long term. But, he didn’t wait to the last minute to do so. The guy had from August 5th( or whenever the lockout ended) to sign at least 1 of these guys to a long term deal. That is almost 6 months that has went by , without Carr or Bowe or any UFA’ signed long term (err… my bad he did resign Siller who was on IR ,oh boy) That tells me 1 of several things
A; Bowe and Carr don’t want to be here and blew off contract talks
B; Pioli doesn’t think they are part of the ‘’right(wrong) 53’’ and doesn’t want them back
C; Pioli wants them back ,but they are asking for absurd money
I have heard no rumblings of Carr and Bowe being unhappy being here and I have heard no indication that either of them wouldn’t come back. Under this tight lipped little community Pioli is running here, the only thing you can do is read the tea leaves.
Since he has been here, Pioli has brought in several corners. Daniels, Brown, Washington,Arenas have all come in under Pioli. Like wise, Pioli hasn’t brought in very many quality receivers. Urban, Horne,and copper are special team/stopgap guys at best.
Breaston is a slot guy only and Baldwin is a young developmental guy. But ,in this league , you need 3 quality wr’s . If Bowe goes, there is no other guy that can fill his shoes here.
Wide receivers are easier to find than corners, but we have an upper echelon 1 on the roster already. So why go threw the trouble of drafting another guy that you have to groom?
I have been saying all along that I don’t think Carr is coming back. The fact he was the last guy to sign his tender and the fact it seems like we have at least some contingency plan at corner,seems to spell the end for Carr here
But, my point is this is a failure, I think, by Pioli that we are even in this situation to begin with. It is a shame we have to lose either 1 of these guys moving forward. Because it DIDN’T have to happen
As far as the other things you brought up, I don’t know what the hell is going on with Cassel. You would think that Pioli would know what an elite QB would look like and Cassel aint it. I’m not going to crucify Pioli for bringing Cassel in here. It was the only option we had and it only cost us a 2nd round pick and we got a division title out of the deal. But clearly, it is time to move on and the fact he brought Orton in off waivers, tells me he is leaning that way. Orton is another guy to add with Carr and Bowe as guys to bring back. I don’t like Orton and I think fans have vastly overrated his talents. But between he and Cassel, Orton gives this team the best chance to win right now at this point.
Braylon Edwards…..blah Chad Henne…..blah BGE…. blah blah, none of those guys do anything for me. Bannon is interesting , I forgot all about him(is he still on the team) If he can come in and block well , then there is your replacement for McClain I was talking about. Oh and we can’t wait to get the line ’’tight’’ in order to get a QB in here. You get a franchise guy whenever you can and however you can. this line is missing 2 spots ,guard and right tackle. Nothing you can’t address in free agency, especially with all the cash we have
As far as Jeff Fisher goes, the guy is overrated. He had what, 6 playoff appearances in 17 years, hardly Lombardiesque. the point is, he didn’t even consider this job at all. He chose a mess of a franchise, with a bad ownership group, little talent in a baseball city over the Chiefs , who are a QB, couple o-lineman, depth away from being really good. That my friend, is a red flag. Now you have allegations of bugging , going overboard about candy rappers, control issues, tight lipped with the media. paranoia etc….. There is a lot of smoke with Pioli , that tells me there is some fire there. Not to mention, the guy hasn’t brought in enough quality players. And he needs to worry about getting guys resigned , instead of how long a candy rapper has been laying around. But the head coaching ’’search’’ (if you can even call it that) troubles me a lot and is just more fuel to the fire of my displeasure with the guy,
Those guys you mentioned
Houston- had flashes of brilliance but was overwhelmed to much. The jury is out
Berry- played really well last year, but a torn ACL in just his 2nd year has me worried
Moeaki- don’t even get me started on this guy. I seriously could write a fanpost about how I feel about him. I have gotten into it with a lot of people on here about him. Bottom line, the guy is fragile and I think he is the next Bob Sanders
Stanzi- you over anyone should know how I feel about him, we argued for 2 days about it. The guy is nothing more than 2nd/3rd stringer, that people are praying for a miracle on. Don’t hold your breath
Romeo as HC- I don’t like the hire at all. It is a lazy , uninspired hire and is more of the same Patriot way crap that hasn’t worked outside on Foxborro. I don’t think RAC will win a championship for a myriad of reasons
So there you go
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 18, 2012 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
the tea leaves say you are wrong about Houston, Berry, Moeaki, and Romeo ... they also say Carr will be back, and perhaps Bowe as well
the only thing you can do is read the tea leaves
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Jan 18, 2012 4:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
time will tell
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 18, 2012 4:35 PM CST up reply actions
He had to tag Hali last year
Just because they don’t have contracts yet doesn’t mean they won’t get signed. One of them will at least get tagged to trade at the very least. Carr’s agent is probably playing hardball and wants Carr to hit the open market. But, I think I showed the Chiefs have the resources to sign both easy. Even if Carr has to be signed for a little more than I stated all you have to do is go with Bannon at FB and it saves like 4.5 million. If we can extend Charles, DJ, Hali, and Flowers in a fiscal year we can do the same for Bowe and Carr, especially if we just tag Bowe. I think you are jumping to conclusions.
i'm speaking from what I have seen
Carr was the last guy to sign his tender offer last year. Jared Page was the last guy to sign his tender his last year here to. And he forced a trade. Couple that with Carr gave this ya I’d like to stay here yaddad yadda non comital response on the radio ,has be suspicious he doesn’t want to be here. In fact, I said it on the previous thread.
And now, what do you do about QB? Do you give an offer to Orton and make him your QB ? You have 3 guys now you need to resign. In a perfect world (or at least my world) you franchise Carr and package him with Dorsey to move up to get Luck. Probably not going to happen, but that is how important this issue with the QB is.
If You aren’t going to move up to get luck, then you better resign Orton and surround him with as much talent as possible. It is THE issue…QB that is
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 18, 2012 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
We know that Pioli can lock up Bowe OR Carr for at least 1 year with the Franchise tag.
So to keep both (for at least a year) all Pioli has to do is lock one up to a long term deal. After that, he will have another year to lock up/trade the other. I think that he can get ONE of them to sign.
Like it or not the tea leaves point to Matt Cassel as the QB for the next season…
…he is a “Pioli guy”
…he has a ‘slight edge’ overall then Orton in all meaningful stats (win%, comp%, td/pass ratio, int/pass ratio, QBR).
…Orton’s ‘best’ season was his rookies, its all been down hill from there (best, down, down, down), while was Cassel up, lowest, up (best), down (injured).
…most important: HE IS UNDER CONTRACT ALREADY.
Luck, Luck, really LUCK? So your master plan…its to move up 10/11 spots…select Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick? Pioli might not be the correct answer to the Chiefs GM question to be sure….but he would be an idiot (and I would call for his head) if he does something as short sighted as trading for Luck. Have you seen the O-Line? It is one of (if not the) worst lines in the NFL…Luck, RGIII, and especially Manning might make it 9 games before they are hauled off the feild in a streacher….then what? No Line, no QB, no shot at being competitive in college let alone the NFL.
Line is more important then a QB, look at Houston’s first draft pick (Carr)…guy was legit but got KILLED (just like anyone we put behind THIS line). There are many on AP who like myself, what the Chiefs to draft and develop a homegrown QB. Do you really want Luck (not that getting could, or should, ever happen) to start behind THIS O-Line? Short sighted at best.
Finish the Lines on both sides (G, RT on O-Line; NT on D-Line), get another TE that can block AND catch, add depth in the secondary, get and ILB to play next to DJ, resign either Bowe or Carr (and franchise either who doesn’t resign) and it will not matter who we have a QB (as long as they dont turn over the ball…especially in the red zone ala Ortron in loss to Raiders) next year.
TL:DR – I do want any QB worth 2 pennies to start for the Chiefs until the line is complete with homegrown talent.
yes Cassel is under contract, but ... is it guaranteed?
if (huge word, I know) we can get orton back I’d take him any day over Cassel … as to the rest of your comment … absofreakingtutely
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I replied to this but i don't think it came up on your response
My lengthy response is after KHAZAD
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 19, 2012 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Hunt/Pioli
Do not have to spend money under the new CBA until 2013.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
LMFAO...........OK now that I have composed myself
Luck, Luck, really LUCK? So your master plan…its to move up 10/11 spots…select Andrew Luck with the #1 overall pick? Pioli might not be the correct answer to the Chiefs GM question to be sure….but he would be an idiot (and I would call for his head) if he does something as short sighted as trading for Luck. Have you seen the O-Line? It is one of (if not the) worst lines in the NFL…Luck, RGIII, and especially Manning might make it 9 games before they are hauled off the feild in a streacher….then what? No Line, no QB, no shot at being competitive in college let alone the NFL.
Ok, so what are we supposed to do,wait until we get an all pro line then draft a QB? Sorry , it doesn’t work like that. This isn’t 1986 anymore, you need a franchise qb to win championships. 3 of the final 4 QB’s left are 1st round picks and 2 are number1 overall picks! Like it or not, there is going to be a number 1 overall pick in the SB this year. Andrew Luck is the most highly touted QB since Elway and you want to pass on him cause we are weak at LG??
But lets look at the ‘’worst line in football’’ shall we. Kc last year gave up 34 sacks last year. That is only about 2.2 a game. and keep in mind, that is with Matt hold the ball all day Cassel. Luck gets rid of the ball quickly unlike Cassel. He would have saved this team at least 8 sacks by throwing the ball away. You don’t believe me? Lets look at the 2010 Colts vs the 2011 Colts.
2010 Colts with Peyton Manning sacks allowed 16
2011 Colts without Manning sacks allowed 35
That’s right, the same o-line that gave up 1 sack per game, gives up over twice as many without Peyton Manning. Just another example of a QB making the rest or the team better
But back to our o-line, we have 2 positions we really need to upgrade, LG and RT. Now you don’t want a QB until we get the line right. We have 3 out of the 5 positions right , including the most important position LT. Nonetheless, what would it take to get the right side ironed out, i.e draft picks . Good question , lets look at the better passing teams in the league.
New Orleans Saints LG Carl Nix (pro bowler) 5th round pick. RT Zach Streif 7th
Green Bay LG Evan Dietrich-smith Undrafted , Rt TJ Lang 4th round
Atlanta Justin Blalock LG 2nd round, RT Tyson Clabo undrafted
New England , Nate Solder RT 1(17) , LG Logan Mankins 1(32)
Yes the Pats have 2 1st round picks on there line , but what about the rest of the line?
LT Matt Light 2nd round
RG Brian Waters free agent pick up
c Dann Connely undrafted
Even the mighty patriots got the majority of there o-line out of the 1st round, what does that tell ya? I can just imagine this conversation now
NFL Owner : so did you get me that fanchise QB?
DivineGrace: no we were weak at RG so I thought I would wait on that till next year
NFL owner: Sorry son, you don’t have next year you’re fired
Line is more important then a QB, look at Houston’s first draft pick (Carr)…guy was legit but got KILLED (just like anyone we put behind THIS line). There are many on AP who like myself, what the Chiefs to draft and develop a homegrown QB. Do you really want Luck (not that getting could, or should, ever happen) to start behind THIS O-Line? Short sighted at best.
We have 3 out of the 5 positions covered , to pass on a franchise changing QB , because of a weakness at RT is ludacris( and I don’t mean the rapper). The Texans in 02 aren’t even in the same conversation as the Chiefs, frankly it is an absurd comparison. Number 1 , the Texans were an expansion franchise, who’s bulk of the roster were castoffs from other teams, also Tony Bosesli was supposed to play LT for them ,but he never did because of injury. The line took a major blow already.
The Texans line was so bad, that in 2003 EsPN had a draft commercial mocking it. They gave up 76 sacks that year…76!! That is 42 more than the Chiefs this year. Apples and heads of lettuce to compare these 2 lines. Also, Carr had no weapons . The team he had that year, as a team rushed for 1347, that included Carrs 282. The Chiefs have a much better running game even without Jamal Charles, than Carr had. As far as his receivers go, hah laughable
James Allen RB 47-302-0
Billy Miller journeymen TE 51-613-3
Corey Bradford slot wr 49-697-6 41-482-1
Jabar Gaffney rookie wr
Luck would have so many better weapons here, it’s not even close.You can’t compare a franchise that has been in exsistence 50 years, 2 years removed from a division title, to an expansion franchise, sorry. And you can’t wait for all the stars to align to get a franchise QB. They are a very rare breed and you take them when you can get them
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 19, 2012 4:22 PM CST reply actions
So...forget the line we draft luck....luck is lost for season. What now?
It takes a TEAM to win the Championship. 22 guys, not 1. You don’t build a team and start with the QB or the secondary….you start from the lines and work outward. 1960 or 2025, doesn’t matter. A great line will make Trint Green look like a pro bowler. A great line will make Larry 2.7 Johnson look like a best. A great QB who is WITHOUT a line ‘might’ be able to carry the team until his inevitable injury when the team will fold like a house made of cards.
2010 Colts with Peyton Manning sacks allowed 16
2011 Colts without Manning sacks allowed 35
Peyton Manning…how did that end up working out for him again? Oh ya, that is right….he was on the sidelines (if that) for every game last year. How many neck serguries has that guy had again? THAT is what will happen to any ‘franchise QB’ we put behind THIS line…they will end up on the sidelines (or worse).
Again
You want to pass on a franchise changing QB for a guard. I would bet you no GM in the league would make that move and I would be it with extreme confidence. Even if we traded 2 number 1’s and 2 number 2’s and a third rounder, you still could draft at least 1 quality offensive lineman. Hell, even if you don’t draft 1 , you have tens of millions tucked away to sign 1. As I said great QB’s are hard to find , look at how much better Manning made his line look.
This idea that this line is historicly bad, is embellishment at best. And this idea that if you traded for Luck , you wouldn’t be able to upgrade your line , is patently absurd to say the very least.
Peyton Manning…how did that end up working out for him again? Oh ya, that is right….he was on the sidelines (if that) for every game last year. How many neck serguries has that guy had again? THAT is what will happen to any ‘franchise QB’ we put behind THIS line…they will end up on the sidelines (or worse).
Ya, players get hurt and he has played in every game since his rookie year. The guy is old now and he has played through injuries he shouldn’t have played through. Are we going yo blame that on his line? Manning on average, has been sacked 17 times a year, only 17 times. His last 3 years, he was sacked 14,10, and 16 times. This idea that the next qb that comes in is going to get killed is just not true. Ya, if he holds onto the ball all day like Cassel he might. Luck throws the ball away, not only that ,the guy is 6’4 235 lbs. He can take some punishment. I never heard a team say we are a guard away from winning a championship. But, I have heard plenty of teams say they are a QB away from winning 1
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 20, 2012 3:33 PM CST reply actions
wow, you just traded away an entire awesome killer potential best ever ever OLine for one QB
2 number 1’s and 2 number 2’s and a third rounder
well, that one QB gets killed w/o the Oline, but the Oline can block for almost any QB and RB … seriously dude … you think the Ravens are winning with an Elite QB? or the Niners or, for that matter, the Giants? (Eli’s good but he’s no Peyton)
think about it … the BEST of the QB’s left was a 6th rounder … oh I know, you rarely find elite talent in late rounds … well guess what, same goes for OLinemen and other positions … you want the best you gotta get ’em early
sure Nicks or a few others were later rounds, but now with the new CBA and different salary for rookies with the new wage scale, those old rules and adages don’t apply … now you can indeed get the best people at any position for the same low, low price … IOW it’s no longer necessary that a team wait for the best at their position when it’s a position of need … OG are worth more than they used to be, same with RT and other positions
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I have given example after example after example
Of good, quality , all pro talent at o-line that weren’t taken in the 1st round. Yet, you can only give me 1 example of 1 GREAT QB that was taken in the 6th round. A general rule of thumb is that when you list only 1 example for your argument repeatadly then it is usually the only example of that side of the argument
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 21, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
Don't agree completely but a very good persuasive arguement gets a rec from me
Peyton, Henne, Stanzi is scary after a year or two but in 2012 might be the End of the World for the rest of the AFC :)
what scares me most about Manning is the neck injury ... one wrong hit and he could be toast, literally
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Montana was "not to that extreme" but also one hit away
It happened in the AFC Championship Game.
I like Peyton, it is his choice…………………
by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 20, 2012 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
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