Trade Scenario: St. Louis Rams

by dubld on Jan 15, 2012 9:11 PM CST

The last rumour I saw about the second round draft pick in this year's draft was that it would take at least 2 #1's and something else, like a 3 this year, or a second next year. Pioli wants to get Khalil badly but will not give up all those draft picks. How about 2 starter's instead of picks? The Ram's would eat that up depending on the starter's. Remember, in this scenario we do NOT give our first pick as part of this transaction.

OK, Dorsey gets traded and makes the D-line for the Ram's. But the sweetener to this deal is somebody not currently on our roster, but the Chief's own his rights, namely Brandon Car. So we have to franchise Carr, not Bowe, and trade his rights along with Dorsey, and get the #2 overall. The problem with franchising Carr is obvious, we cannot tag Bowe with it. Also we have the eleventh or twelfth depending on a coin flip.

We can argue why Carr and not Bowe all day long, but the bottom line to me is Bowe is a #1 WR, and Carr is the #2 CB. Also Bowe makes scoring plays far more often than Carr. By the way Carr had scoring opportunities but couldn't handle the ball. Then you think about it some more and the offense is already weak, why weaken it any more? Bottom line, I like Carr where he is, but Bowe is vital to the team and Carr is not.

So we're minus 2 starters from defense, a former fifth overall and a fifth rounder for the second overall. That is a huge price to surrender for 1 untested rookie. Belay that, 2 rookies because our first is still in our possession. That gives us 2 #1's come April. OOPS, Scotty throws a curveball and takes RG# with the #2 overall and the OT Rieff with our second #1. Quite sudden like we have an offense being dangerous!

If you been watching the playoffs, you see that the teams making BIG plays are the ones winning. So at the sacrifice of the Defense, we get an offense that can score and win ball games. That's right, I did an abrupt 180 degree turnabout on RG3. With the rules as they are, a QB is a must. Pioli gets one and a top OT too. Go Chief's!!!

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Comments

If the Chiefs moved up to #2

and didn’t take a QB, there would be widespread rioting in the streets.

by Steve_in_RI on Jan 15, 2012 9:14 PM CST reply actions

ohhhhhhhhhhh a party?

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by upamtn on Jan 15, 2012 9:22 PM CST up reply actions

the streets of RI?

by dubld on Jan 16, 2012 6:48 AM CST up reply actions

u say Pioli wants Kalil badly

where did u read this?

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 9:23 PM CST reply actions

some website, don't remember which one. don't really matter as everything is conjecture as

of now anyway. also saw a mock at NFP with this idea for awhile, the 2 and the team going with Khalil

by dubld on Jan 16, 2012 6:51 AM CST up reply actions

What about

we keep both bowe and carr, give them dorsey, our first round this year and next year and draft RG3. Would the Rams take Dorsey, our first round this year, and our first round next year… maybe our fourth this year too?

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 9:30 PM CST reply actions

I could live that, but could Scotty?

by dubld on Jan 16, 2012 6:52 AM CST up reply actions

I would jump off a bridge if we traded away Carr and Dorsey to draft a LT.

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by Scaryclouds on Jan 15, 2012 9:32 PM CST reply actions

a high bridge or a low one? over land or over water?

by upamtn on Jan 15, 2012 9:34 PM CST up reply actions

With or without punji sticks?

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Jan 15, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions

Dorsey & Jackson were #1 & #3 in total stops against the run this year

per profootballfocus.com

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 9:32 PM CST reply actions

perhaps because our pass defense was pretty good..

..overall.. due to having a pretty talented secondary (even with Berry out) and a hall of famer secondary coach….

But our run defense was awful. Giving up more than 130 yards a game on average.

The formula to beat the Chiefs was to run the ball to set up the big play.
More runs against = more times you have to tackle a runner.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Jan 15, 2012 10:42 PM CST up reply actions

I disagree

the stats might bear out what you said but teams were not able to run and beat us, without our offense helping them with short fields

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 15, 2012 11:16 PM CST up reply actions

disagree

the knock on our D-line was lack of pressure. I like the dynamic of our front 7 though. We started to do a better job at getting pressure via OLB. This is so 2010 but a stud NT will make the front 7 great.

Go luck yourself.

by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 17, 2012 1:59 PM CST up reply actions

Dont underestimate the importance of Carr

if Carr leaves who are we going to pair with Flowers? Arenas? Brown? Imagine how scary our secondary would be with Flowers, Carr, Lewis, and Berry. Also remember Carr is the CB we put on tall WRs that are showing up more and more throughout the league.

Why can’t we just keep the pieces that work well together and improve on other aspect of our team instead of giving them away and restarting on new projects?

And btw I dont think Carr and Dorsey will be enough to get the 2nd overall pick. We definitely would have to give up our number 1 as well.

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 9:36 PM CST reply actions

there was a man named cortland finnegan.

by fishhooks on Jan 15, 2012 9:41 PM CST up reply actions

who walked out of a bar and back in again

by upamtn on Jan 15, 2012 9:43 PM CST up reply actions

and beat the bejeesus out of....

Wait he got the pounding and then got kicked out of the game

ign him up :)

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 15, 2012 10:36 PM CST up reply actions

any man who will throw down with A.J.

is tough, win or lose. The question is, does he have Carr talent……..

Go luck yourself.

by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:01 PM CST up reply actions

First of all

we dont know that he would resign with us. Second of all he’s not going cost any less than carr knowing how high and mighty finnegan thinks of himself. Carr and Flowers have shown great chemistry. Why bring in a hot head like finnegan to try and replace Carr. This isn’t Madden where we can compare ratings and switch one guy for another.

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 9:58 PM CST up reply actions

There was a man named Cortland Finnegan

Now he goes by Cortland Innegan, Johnson beat the F outta him

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 16, 2012 5:57 AM CST up reply actions

Pulled the F out of his A and stuck it in again...

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 17, 2012 12:28 PM CST up reply actions

irrelevant.

you think B. Flowers could beat up A.J.? NOPE. Is B.Flowers friggin awesome at CB….HELL YES!

Go luck yourself.

by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:03 PM CST up reply actions

I just wanna know where he read that Pioli wants Kalil "badly"

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 9:37 PM CST reply actions

or if its his opinion

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 9:38 PM CST reply actions

possibly running with Pioli's presser the other day saying he wants to do the OLine this year

by upamtn on Jan 15, 2012 9:44 PM CST up reply actions

yeah but I was wondering y he said Kalil specifically & not just OL

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions

We need a QB badly?

How the Saints and Packers doing in the playoffs? Give me a good D

When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.

Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.

CHIEFS WILL!

by NJChieffan16 on Jan 15, 2012 9:45 PM CST reply actions

i agree. I think the shift is definitely towards it being an offensive league

but if we have a Balt-SF Super Bowl, it’s proof that defense still will get it done.

If Flacco or Smith win a Super Bowl, it should be all anyone needs to understand a guy like Kyle Orton could with a similar OL and D.

by Steve_in_RI on Jan 15, 2012 9:52 PM CST up reply actions

A great QB

can hide a lot of flaws in a team, which gives teams with great QBs a huge advantage. We certainly don’t need a great QB, but it makes the job much harder to defeat teams that do have great QBs.

Btw, Alex Smith has played great this year and it would not be fair to compare him to how Orton has played this season, although they are asked to do similar things at the QB position.

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 10:02 PM CST up reply actions

Harbaugh

dammit Pioli why did you let him get away

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 15, 2012 10:38 PM CST up reply actions

Ding...

we have a winner.

by 12t on Jan 16, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions

I agree

I think Smith has had an excellent season. I just think on the whole if you put Orton into that kind of situation with the surrounding parts he can be equally effective. All moot though until they make an attempt to resign him.

by Steve_in_RI on Jan 15, 2012 10:45 PM CST up reply actions

I agree

Especially with Jamaal Charles coming back, Orton could definitely have the best year of his career if he decides to stay with the Chiefs. I know a lot of people relate Orton to the one on the bears in which he was horrible, but he has improved alot. One big issue with Orton is probably is red zone offense, which could be remedied by running Charles (because he’s always fast enough to get the edge), running McClain consistently in the zone, and having big targets like Bowe, Baldwin, and Moeaki catching his passes.

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 10:52 PM CST up reply actions

the Red Zone issue is a huge thing, and not just with or w/o Charles ... we need the OLine to be effective

and while Kalil is awesome, not sure I like the idea of giving up ANYONE to move up to get him … ergo, DeCastro being a beast AND being in middle of the line … would work out perfectly (in theory)

by upamtn on Jan 16, 2012 8:02 AM CST up reply actions

How r the Pats doin

it just depends on if u get hot at the right time

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions

And

it helps to have one of the best QBs to ever play the game haha

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 10:03 PM CST up reply actions

Facing the Donkeys in the Divisional round didn't hurt, either.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Jan 15, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions

Donkey's beat Pittsburgh (somehow)

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 10:07 PM CST up reply actions

Pittsburgh

had a terrible defensive scheme. They didn’t pressure tebow at all and rushed four all game. Their Corners bit on double moves every time especially Ike Turner who got burned every time Tebow threw to his assignment. They also didnt cover the option very well, which the Patriots did a great job scheming for last night.

For at least this year, I felt like a decent defensive scheme which stacks the box, gets pressure on tebow, and have corners who dont bite on the double move, you would beat tebow pretty easily. Tebow is pretty terrible so far at finding the intermediate/crossing routes.

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 10:22 PM CST up reply actions

You need to either keep Tebow in the pocket and force him to pass and beat you that way

Or make him roll to his right, not left. With the injuries Pitt had, they couldn’t do it. They allowed Tebow to break the pocket and to let the WRs break routes and just get open, we played Tebow a lot better and it showed.

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 16, 2012 5:59 AM CST up reply actions

yah, we have a better group in the secondary than Pitt ... and I don't like the idea of giving any of them away

by upamtn on Jan 16, 2012 8:03 AM CST up reply actions

yes but they have the 31st ranked D & that pisses me off

BTW there is no such thing as “The Patriot Way”. Its more like “The Tom Brady Way”. that’s the secret

by HIT34MAN on Jan 15, 2012 10:04 PM CST reply actions

Lol

you speak the truth

by andrew33 on Jan 15, 2012 10:17 PM CST up reply actions

Gronkowski ... wow

by upamtn on Jan 16, 2012 8:04 AM CST up reply actions

Dorsey and Bowe are over valued

And Carr is undervaled by AP in my opinion. Don’t get me wrong, Dorsey and Bowe are good players, but in terms of impact Carr is the greatest. Dorsey is great against the run, but can’t get to the QB. I would say teams would view him, his contract, as a 3rd rounder, 2nd at the best. Bowe is great, but he would be the biggest risk to pay in my opinion due to his past issues with motivation. Not to mention it would be easier to replace Bowe’s production on offense then it would be to find a replacement for Carr. I think we should overpay to keep Carr, since having an ELITE secondary would be the envy of the league, with the exception of the franchise QBs. And Bowe should be tagged, either to trade, keep him motivated, or to sign an extension later.

As for Dorsey I say move him to NT, he can have the entire offseason to gain 12-15 pounds. He would have the same measurables as Kelly Gregg, and a 5 technique’s responsibility is the same thing as a zero tech, its just a different match up. That way Bailey can start and hopefully create more of a pass rush while improving in run defense at NT.

by Crown Chief on Jan 15, 2012 11:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

and dorsey would be hurt in 5 games

the Body by Haley has helped Dorsey stay on the field and productive

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 15, 2012 11:21 PM CST up reply actions

Body By Haley

is what got JC, Moeaki, and Berry out for the season.

Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens...

by 5280ChiefsFan on Jan 16, 2012 2:26 AM CST up reply actions

ACL tears?

What conditioning routine immunizes against those, doctor?

If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?

by electriclight on Jan 16, 2012 5:20 AM CST up reply actions

You don't have 3 knees blow out

in the first 3 games of the year unless there is something wrong with the teams conditioning. I refuse to believe it was just a coincidence.

Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens...

by 5280ChiefsFan on Jan 16, 2012 6:25 AM CST up reply actions

Epistemology 101

I refuse to believe it was just a coincidence.

Do you have any evidence it wasn’t a coincidence?

Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl

by PVChiefsfan on Jan 17, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions

they should of worn knee pads

Go luck yourself.

by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 17, 2012 2:20 PM CST up reply actions

I'm sorry

but this comment is just ridiculous. There is nothing you can do about ACL tears. I would say that Body by Haley is responsible for the Chiefs having the fewest players on the injury report of any team all year.

2010 = The beginning of a dynasty

by ChiefWildcat on Jan 16, 2012 2:23 PM CST up reply actions

Carr is undervalued

seems most everyone looks at draft position to determine whats what.

Playing on the field for 600-1000 snaps says NFL pro to me

by Steve_Chiefs on Jan 15, 2012 11:24 PM CST up reply actions

I don't think he is undervalued, he just isn't most valuable.

by dubld on Jan 16, 2012 6:57 AM CST up reply actions

that's debatable...

but no way Bowe is…Corners are always more valuable to a team than recievers. Much harder job.

by 12t on Jan 16, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions

I agree about Carr

but I dont agree that Bowe is over valued. I believe Bowe could have a similar effect as Hakeem Nicks on the Giants if we could start a good QB. Bowe imo has worked very hard every offseason. He’s slimmed down a lot his first offseason, he’s worked on his concentration and focus ever since he got here, and he went to work with fitzgerald last offseason. I am not sure if a lot of people remember, but Bowe used to drop a lot of easy passes his first year. Since then his concentration and his technique has improved a lot. It would be a grave mistake to let a talent like Bowe leave. Look at the weapons we have: Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Moeaki, McCluster, McClain, and Charles. There is so much talent and potential; if Orton begins to develop chemistry with these players, our offense could be one of the most explosive and dynamic offense in the league.

by andrew33 on Jan 16, 2012 12:06 AM CST up reply actions

My way

Sign Carr, Orton, McClain and Tag Bowe.

Sign LT Demetrius Bell (Buf), TE Jacob Tamme

Trade Cassell and Dorsey to Seattle for their 2nd and 3rdround picks this year. Then trade down with NE.They get our #11 and #75, we get their #28, #32,#48.

R1 #28 LB Donte Hightower-Alabama
R1 #32 G Cordy Glenn-Georgia
R2 #43 QB Ryan Tannehill-Texas A&M
R2#44 NT Josh Chapman-Alabama
R2 #48 FS Markelle Martin-Oklahoma St.
R3 #76 RB Doug Martin-Boise St.
R4 #107 C Ben Jones-Georgia
R5 #137 SS Brandon Taylor-LSU
R6 #171 DE Jaye Howard-Florida
R7 #202 Ath Chris Rainey-Florida

by 102win on Jan 16, 2012 2:18 AM CST reply actions

Yes please!

This would be an awesome scenario. Only question is who is the RT? Albert?

2012 Goal: Be invited to Lady Buttercup's spring ball.
2012 Resolution: To establish a better cravat collection than anyone else on AP.
2012 Wish: Chiefs Super Bowl

by The Gentry on Jan 16, 2012 10:09 AM CST up reply actions

It would

be a good problem to have, guess that would get settled in camp. Some far fetched deals, but they make sense for the other teams as well.

O line would have so many options. Glenn has LT experience, so in case of injury he could slide out and Ben Jones could take over at LG. Pretty solid LB group.

Sleepers: Taylor would add depth, Howard reminds me of Bailey and I would plug Rainey into McClusters role today!!

by 102win on Jan 16, 2012 4:04 PM CST up reply actions

I gotta say that would be pretty nice!!

by AaronMannicci on Jan 16, 2012 3:58 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Tannehill. Really

by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 16, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions

It is a gamble

by 102win on Jan 16, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions

since he has a broken foot or whatever, yeah

not a BAD scenario …

by upamtn on Jan 16, 2012 5:01 PM CST up reply actions

A Gamble

Because he is not very good.

by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 16, 2012 5:09 PM CST reply actions

A fifth rounder at best

by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 16, 2012 5:12 PM CST reply actions

I like

The senerio w

by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 16, 2012 5:14 PM CST reply actions

I like

The senerio where we resgn Bowe and Carr, get a o-lineman in the 1st. I just wish we could somehow keep Orton.

by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 16, 2012 5:17 PM CST reply actions

I'm with you

by HowSweetItIs on Jan 16, 2012 11:28 PM CST up reply actions

Dude, are you seriously high?

We have to sign Carr and Bowe BOTH! You say Carr doesn’t score alot, take him out of the defense and see how far our 6th rated passing defense falls! There you can count 10 times the amount of TDs scored on our Defense without Carr than Bowe will ever catch! He is a number 2 corner that is rapidly improving and had a much better year than Flowers. Its bullshit that hes not been signed this year. Pioli talked about signing guys that have earned it. Well by God Carr has, so pay the fucking man! I want to trade up to get RG3 so bad I can taste it. But it will never happen because Pioli doesn’t have the balls to trade multiple 1st rounders. He wants to build a team around Cassell or the idea that he eventually will hit gold in a later round QB. He will never find another Tom Brady pick! Thats a fact!

by BigRatt on Jan 16, 2012 9:16 PM CST reply actions