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Why Drafting A First Round Running Back Is A Bad Idea

I've heard a lot of people who want the Chiefs to draft Trent Richardson out of Alabama with our first round pick. From what they say, he's the Andrew Luck of running backs, the best prospect since Adrian Peterson. This kid is virtually guaranteed to be a star in the league, and has a good chance of being a Hall of Famer one day. I have no idea if this is true or not, since I haven't watch a single minute of Alabama football this year, but I still think that drafting him with our first round pick would be a huge mistake.

Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with Richardson. I have no reason to doubt that he'll be one of the ten best runningbacks in the league in a couple years, but I oppose this pick based on the fact that it is almost always a bad idea to draft a runningback in the first round. Here's why:

Star-divide

Passing is More Important Than Running

Here's a quiz for you. Imagine you're a GM and you're trying to decide between two trades. On the one hand, Minnesota said they would trade you Adrian Peterson for Jackie Battle and your first round pick. On the other hand, Denver offered you Kyle Orton (hypothetically, of course, since this would be impossible) and all you have to give up is Matt Cassel and that same first round pick. Which deal would you make?

Knowing most fans, I'm sure nearly everyone would happily agree to the first one, while they would laugh in your face for even suggesting trading a first round pick for Orton. But, as you might suspect, there is a very strong case to be made that the second trade is not only better, but it is better by a good margin.

This year, Adrian Peterson averaged 4.7 yards per carry, which is quite a bit better than Battle's 4.0 yards per carry. That's 0.7 yards per play better than Battle, which is a pretty good margin. But it is smaller than the difference in Kyle Orton (6.5 NY/A*) and Matt Cassel (5.5 NY/A) by 0.3 yards per play. So just based on that We'd be better off going from Cassel to Orton than we would to go from Battle to Peterson. (Although, to be fair, that's not true if we replace Peterson with Charles or Battle with Jones.)

*Note: NY/A stands for "net yards per attempt", which is basically just yards per attempt that takes into account sacks. I prefer it over simple yards per attempt because it gives you a better measure of how many yards you expect to gain when calling a pass play, and correctly penalizes those QB's who take too many sacks.

But wait, there's more! There is an additional benefit to the QB trade that we don't get in the runningback trade. Since almost every team, including even the run-heavy Chiefs, pass more often than they run, those additional yards per play are more important for a QB than it is for a runningback.

This is crazy, isn't it? Peterson is one of the best runningbacks in the league, while Orton is the QB nobody wants. Isn't Peterson much more valuable? Well, no, because running doesn't really matter that much. This is because the difference between the best passing teams and an average passing team is much greater than the difference between the best running teams and an average team.

This year, the best passing team in the NFL was the Packers with 8.3 NY/A, which is simply amazing. To be fair, I'll pretend they don't exist, and go with the second best team, the Patriots with 7.9 NY/A. With a league average of 6.2 NY/A, that puts the Patriots at 1.7 NY/A better than average.

As for running, the best team was the Panthers with 5.4 Y/A. However, that is unfairly high because of Cam Newton, so again we'll go with the second best team, The Vikings with 5.2 Y/A. With a league average of 4.3 Y/A, that puts the Vikings at only 0.9 Y/A better than average, which is barely half the margin for the passing game.

In short, you gain more from being a good passing team than you do from being a good running team. In fact, notice how the good running teams have bad records while the good passing teams are among the best in the league. This is no coincidence.

If you still don't buy it, consider the two "types" that most good teams seem to fall in to. You're either a good passing team, like the Patriots or Packers, or a team with a good defense and run game, like the Ravens and 49ers. But when was the last time one of the best teams in the league had a good run game but a bad defense? I can't remember any team that would fit this description, yet there are several examples of teams that have first round byes in the playoffs with bad defenses and good passing attacks.

Jamaal Charles is Back, and He is Awesome

I don't know which I find more amazing, Jamaal Charles' stats, or the fact that nobody else seems to realize how amazing they are. They are so amazing, they almost sound like Chuck Norris jokes.

In 2010, Jamaal Charles set the NFL record for quickest to get to 1,100 yards in a season. The previous record holder was Jamaal Charles.

Only twice in NFL history has a running back not in the Hall of Fame had more than 5.85 yards per carry (with at least 150 carries) in a single season. Those two players are Jamaal Charles and Jamaal Charles. In fact, the only other running back to do that more than once is Jim Brown, who is commonly considered to be the best runningback ever (and was #2 on NFL Networks Top 100 NFL players ever).

Only five running backs in NFL history have had over 6 yards per carry in a single season (with at least 150 carries):Jim Brown, Joe Perry, OJ Simpson, Barry Sanders, and Jamaal Charles.

I could go on all day about how amazing Charles has been so far in his NFL career. He is not only the best running back in the NFL today, if he keeps this up he should be considered one of the best of all time. And you're telling me we should draft a runningback in the first round to take carries away from him?

We Don't Have Room For Him

Ideally, there shouldn't be enough touches for a new running back to have any sort of significant load. This is ideally because, after Haley, I don't trust coaches to make correct personnel decisions. I expect us to run more than we should and use Battle or Jones more than we should.

This year we had 500 pass attempts and 487 rush attempts. So we have about 487 carries to hand out. In 2010, Charles had 230 carries. We can increase this to 250 and still be pretty conservative. McCluster had 114 carries this year, which can be increased to 130 if we plan to use him a bit more. This give us the ability to pass to him out of the backfield while still threatening the run. We can then convert 50 of those runs into passes, which will put us closer to the league average in rushing attempts and, since passing is more effective than running, make us a better team. Our QB's had 36 carries this year, and I'd expect about the same number next year.

That plan leaves us with 21 carries, which can either be given to Battle, or split up among Charles, McCluster, and the QB to pass or run.

Of course, we could split carried between the rookie and Charles like we did in 2010 with Charles and Jones, but that would require us to be a run first team, which is not the direction you want to go if you want to win Super Bowls.

Poll
Should we draft a running back with our 1st round pick?
No
201 votes

201 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 86 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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I don't think we should...

based simply on the fact that there are more glaring holes than at running back. Is running back still a need? At this point I would say yes but the need is for a change of pace pounding type back. And with that the need is not something essential. Anytime you’re picking as high as the Chiefs are you want to get the most value of it. I hate drafting lineman but I would love to get somebody capable of replacing Richardson and adding depth across the line.

by DeuceDouglas on Jan 13, 2012 7:37 PM CST reply actions  

I actually disagree with your reasoning.

I’m firmly in the “draft the best player on the board” camp, because rosters in the NFL can change quickly, so a place where you have no need today is a place where you have a need tomorrow. It may not be a good idea to take that to an extreme, but usually if you think the guy is the highest impact guy on the board, you should take him even if you don’t have a clear need.

Then again, I really think we need to draft a right tackle. But since that can easily be done in later rounds, I would try to trade back.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 13, 2012 7:49 PM CST up reply actions  

If your for draft the best player available!

You would know that player is Decastro. Decastro will do more for us and Charles than Trent Richardson will do for this team. Decastro is a Fall of Fame type Guard that rarely comes out, when you draft guys like this it doesn’t matter whos behind him. When you have a line like Albert/Decastro/Hudson/Aso/Levi Brown. Charles will run for 2000 yards! Guaranteed! You put Richardson behind our Line and he wont be effective.

by BigRatt on Jan 14, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I disagree with your reasoning.

We don’t need a change of pace pounding type back IMO that day and age is gone

We need a back who is a 1 cut and go, to fit the current ZBS, not a big down hill back like Battle

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 14, 2012 6:03 AM CST up reply actions  

This its a tough one -

As much as I agree with you..
I got a funny feeling that Richardson will be there when Pioli makes that first pick and he won’t hesitate on pulling the trigger on what most will say is the BPA at that point.

:/

Angry Red, 'nuff said.

by chiefsfan62 on Jan 13, 2012 7:49 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

tip of the helmet ... THE best poll ever!

not to mention fantabulous post, as you always do :-)

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 7:54 PM CST reply actions  

Damn it.

I was hoping you would win me over with this post, but you fell short. I keep trying to convince myself that taking a RB in round 1 would be idiotic, but I can’t bring myself to do it yet. We still have no quality QBs and who knows if Jamaal can stay healthy. I think adding Trent would guarantee the Chiefs being the #1 rushing team for years to come. This would also be paired with what looks to be a perennial top 5 defense with the return of Berry.

by ChiefsFetish on Jan 13, 2012 8:08 PM CST reply actions  

Why do you want the Chiefs to be the best running team?

The passing game is so much more important, I’d rather be the worst rushing team and a top 5 passing team than the best running team and an average passing team.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 13, 2012 8:16 PM CST up reply actions  

bone of contention ...

a great running team GENERALLY keeps the ball longer … that keeps the OTHER team off the field longer … and THAT in turn keeps your own defense more rested and able to play at a higher energy level

Martyball might not be sexy but it’s undeniably effecient

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 8:22 PM CST up reply actions  

sure won us a ton of Super Bowls didn't it?

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Jan 13, 2012 10:26 PM CST up reply actions  

maybe not, but it sure got us 10 wins and a playoff almost every year for a decade

remember, you can’t win if you don’t play!

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:40 PM CST up reply actions  

we did play. And we didn't make it.

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Jan 14, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions  

Being the best running team is a realistic goal.

Being a top 5 passing team? Who exactly on our roster could make us a top 5 passing team? And although passing gives you more big plays, it also creates more risks. Interceptions occur way more often than fumbles. If we had a quality QB, then I would completely agree with your post, but we don’t. I would rather run the wildcat all game than let Cassel pretend to be a starting NFL QB.

by ChiefsFetish on Jan 13, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Why do we need somebody on the roster?

If we sign Manning, it is very possible that we are a top 5 passing team. If we start Stanzi and he turns out to be above average we could be a top 5 passing team with the talent we have.

The problem is that we shouldn’t think about drafting around Cassel. Unless he somehow becomes an elite QB, he won’t be our starter for much longer. Whoever we draft, though, should be with our team ten years from now.

Even if we can’t become a top 5 passing team this year, it is better to build towards that than to build to run.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 13, 2012 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I think we can rule out Manning.

Everyone i’ve talked to that has had that surgery or knows someone who has doesn’t even think he’ll play football again, let alone at a high level. And I agree that we shouldn’t draft around Cassel, but there are no other options right now. If we have no idea who our QB will be after Cassel, how do we know how to draft other than around him? How do we know the guy we get to replace Cassel is any good?

Let me list our QBs since 2006. Huard, Croyle, Thigpen, Cassel, Palko, Orton. We could be 5 years away from having a competent QB again. I’m not saying I want Richardson, i just wouldn’t hate the pick.

by ChiefsFetish on Jan 13, 2012 11:16 PM CST up reply actions  

You realize we're probably keeping Cassel?

And I doubt Orton will re-sign to compete for a starting position with Cassel. We need to be the best running team in the NFL if we’re going to win a Super Bowl with Cassel.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 9:20 PM CST up reply actions  

Here's the problem with that line of thinking.

There’s two possibilities; either Crennel believes Cassel is a good QB, or he doesn’t.

If Crennel believes Cassel is a good QB, then he won’t think about winning despite Cassel, and should make moves to make our passing game better.

If Crennel believes Cassel is bad, he will start somebody else.

Either way, building a running team is not a good idea.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 13, 2012 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Piloi's comments this week leads me to believe that Cassel is the guy

Romeo believing in Cassel won’t keep his feet from bailing on him as soon as he gets to the last step in his drop. At best we re-sign Bowe and bring in a right tackle. I don’t think that fixes Cassel. I was one of the biggest Cassel-backers since he arrived in KC. I just don’t think we can win anything important with him. We can be a good team, not a great team.

We found our window to win and that’s with DJ/Hali/Flowers/Charles/Berry all being here for the next five years and being the glue. If we’re sticking with Cassel we damn well better be good in the run and that means Charles and another guy. We don’t have that other guy right now.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 9:39 PM CST up reply actions  

You're looking at this too near term.

If you’re right in assuming that Cassel will be our starter and that we can’t win anything important with him, then he will not be our starter for much longer. Yet, if we draft Richardson in anticipation of trying to work around Cassel, we will be stuck with this two back system long after Cassel leaves. If we instead invest in an offensive lineman, it will make the situation better for whoever the next QB is.

It’s like the situation I pointed out in my Tebow post. Playing Tebow allows them to win now, but it is impossible for them to be consistent Super Bowl contenders running the option. So unless Tebow improves drastically as a QB, they are better off moving on and losing in the short term in order to be able to compete long term.

So if you want to be a consistent good but not great team, Richardson might work out. But if you want to contend for Super Bowls, you have to build a good passing attack, even if you don’t have the QB in place at the moment.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 13, 2012 10:01 PM CST up reply actions  

Fair enough

I just have a bad feeling we’re sticking with Cassel for a while.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 10:04 PM CST up reply actions  

and your bad feeling gives me a bad feeling

as I told Masons in another thread earlier …

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:15 PM CST up reply actions  

I swore I saw this earlier

He looks like he needs some sleep, and visine.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 10:16 PM CST up reply actions  

see? there you go again with them negative vibes ...

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:40 PM CST up reply actions  

good reason, and I'll forgive you if you return Bajah safely

I miss that guy

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:43 PM CST up reply actions  

you must check the post directly above this one

but do wear eye protection … it’s not pretty

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Welp....

I love the idea of Richardson being on the board at our spot.

A. With Cassel likely being our starter, he needs a dominate run game to be succesfull in KC.

B. We can’t expect Charles to be 100% of himself for the early portion of the season. His knee may be healed, but getting it used to NFL abuse will take sometime.

C. Another team see’s Richardson as a must have and moves to #11 to take him, giving us another mid round selection.

The runningback position maybe more than any other is immune to draft position. Meaning solid value can be found in any round. Would i be mad if the Chiefs drafted Richardson, not at all. Impact players are always more exciting to watch then let’s say a RT. Allthough watching BRich has been entertaining in the sense of complete ineptitude. Trent is hands down the best back of the class, and will likely be a great player in the nfl, but most likely not in a Chiefs uniform. I could see Cincy snagging him with that Raiders first, if he falls a little further.

poop

by Kuhmmish on Jan 13, 2012 8:12 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

1) Richardson will not fall to us
2) RB’s can be had further down the line and contribute very well
3) w/o a dominant OLine, no RB or QB will succeed, ergo … David DeCastro

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

Not really

1) There’s a pretty good chance Richardson falls to us, if there is any guy in the top ten with the best chance of falling, it’s probably him.

2) Offensive linemen can be had further down the line and contribute very well (see what I did there?).

3) Adrian Peterson, Chris Johnson, MJD, Frank Gored, Jay Cutler, and Matt Stafford say otherwise.

by KC_Chiefs on Jan 13, 2012 10:29 PM CST up reply actions  

3b) Priest Holmes called and said those guys are nuts

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:42 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah CJ2K really looked good most of the year behind that Oline didn't he?

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 14, 2012 6:05 AM CST up reply actions  

He held out and missed the Preseason after coming off a lockout

Took him a long time to get back into football shape, and still surpassed 1000 yards with a not so spectacular O-Line.

by KC_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions  

He looked bad for a long time because of the Oline

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 14, 2012 1:32 PM CST up reply actions  

He had no problem the last 2 years with that bad Oline when he had a 1300 and a 2000 yard season.

So yeah, I’ll use the lockout then subsequent holdout that got him out of football shape as an excuse for his performance before I blame his line.

I’d rather have a running back in the first that looks like the next MJD who can help out Jamaal who is our main offensive weapon coming off an ACL tear, than draft an offensive lineman for our line in the first when all we need is a tackle which can be gotten in the 2nd – 4th rounds.

by KC_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions  

Yeah how about you stop looking at stats and watch the line you claim to know

They didn’t open holes, like they did the past years for CJ2K to run through, nor give him time in the backfield to pick his spots.

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 14, 2012 8:42 PM CST up reply actions  

And you're telling me this because you actively watch the Titans

Or

To come up with some abrupt unproven point to support your notion?

by KC_Chiefs on Jan 14, 2012 11:35 PM CST up reply actions  

I watched the Titans

It wasn’t just CJ, his line play was not good. The holes were much smaller, the LBs were free, he didn’t have the same amount of time in the backfield to be patient. Yes some was on him, he didn’t have his burst right away nor was he breaking a lot of tackles

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 15, 2012 5:53 AM CST up reply actions  

We're in the business of collecting good players

Richardson is a good player. Despite what any fan wants for the team at the end of the day we’ll get a good player and we’ll be happy about it if he’s the choice.

If you think Charles workload is going to increase from what we saw in 2010 we are on different pages already. He will get 12-15 carries a game and another back will be in that range as well.

Dex is effective when he touches the ball 5-7 times per game in the pass game and running the ball. That’s it.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 9:00 PM CST reply actions  

I will not be happy if the Chiefs take RB in the first round...

Even if Jim Brown in his prime is resurrected and dropped in our lap..

I said it before and I will say it again, if the Chiefs draft a RB or WR in the first round, I will not watch a single game next year. Taking a RB is the worst… THE WORST conceivable move… I’d rather they took a third round RT with the first pick.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 13, 2012 9:10 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm all about beef

And we can draft a tackle and have a solid OL, but then we’re still putting our entire offense in the hands of a guy coming off ACL surgery, and according to this INCREASING his work load.

We need another back, plain and simple. If it’s not in the first than I hope we strike gold later in the draft because that dude could become the center of our offense if JC regresses at all or gets injured again. Putting a lot of cards into JC.

Hope we can re-sign McClain and give some carries like we did late in the season. But Dex/Battle/Jones are not No. 2 backs for a good team if Cassel is the QB. Sorry, ain’t buying that.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 9:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Running backs are a dime a dozen

Who cares how good the number 2 running backs are, its a passing league. I would say all of those guys you listed are better than Brandon Saine… Who is the backup running back in Green Bay.

I’d rather have a line that can make every running back good. If I ran an NFL team, I would never NEVER draft a running back earlier than the third round, the value just isn’t there.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 13, 2012 9:29 PM CST up reply actions  

Really? You're bringing up the backup running back in GB?

Their situation is a little different than ours.

C’Mon man.

SB Nation Kansas City

Twitter - @bkissel7

by BJ Kissel on Jan 13, 2012 9:42 PM CST up reply actions  

I am...

you know why, because who cares.

If we are relying on two running backs to win, we aren’t going to win anyway.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 13, 2012 10:05 PM CST up reply actions  

we don't

and it does not matter if we have a one, two or 15 back system behind him

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Jan 13, 2012 10:28 PM CST up reply actions  

I t hink its possible to win a Super Bowl with Cassel...

but you are gonna have to catch lightning in a bottle, and it wont be any kind of sustainable success . It will have to be done with an entire roster of above average to great players, its gonna take incredible coaching, and supreme talent.

Either way I don’t think Trent Richardson even if he is the best running back ever pushes this team over the top.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 13, 2012 10:36 PM CST up reply actions  

but gats, don't you remember 2003 when we had Priest Holmes and he was the awesomest RB in the universe and we won 13 games and scored a bazillion points and made it all the way to the ... oh yeah, never mind

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:45 PM CST up reply actions  

That team also had a very good Trent Green

And of course Priest Holmes was an UDFA

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 13, 2012 10:53 PM CST up reply actions  

I wouldn't mind having an offense like that and defense like Marty's teams

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 10:59 PM CST up reply actions  

works for me

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 11:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I understand the argument against drafting Richardson, but.....

the counter arguments aren’t making sense to me. Basically all i’m hearing is that 2 running backs won’t do us any good because we don’t have a good QB. So what will drafting any other position besides QB do for us? Unless we sell the farm for RG3, it doesn’t it matter who we draft. We aren’t going anywhere until we improve the QB position. O-line instead of running back won’t make a damn bit of difference.

by ChiefsFetish on Jan 13, 2012 11:22 PM CST up reply actions  

really?

so you’d sell the farm and leave us with a crappy OLine and no top picks for the next couple of years for a QB who would still have to develop at the NFL level … and by the time he’s “ready” who else have we lost to free agency or injury?

meantime we go 8-8 or … with a few injuries … maybe we turn into a St Louis and only win 4 games … yeah, lovely idea

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 13, 2012 11:29 PM CST up reply actions  

First of all, I don't think our o-line is as bad as most think.

Orton, who somewhat resembles a professional QB, was only sacked once in his 3 games as a Chief. As far as losing draft picks, we can pick up some pieces in free agency. The core of our team is already built. And RG3 isn’t a typical QB. While he’s “getting ready” he can still throw a deep ball, do damage with his legs, and manage a game just as good as anyone on our roster can. You must really think highly of Cassel if you think getting RG3 will set us back.

by ChiefsFetish on Jan 13, 2012 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Championship teams are built from the ball out...

It comes down to positional value, running backs are a dime a dozen. There are just as many first round running backs who are good, as there are undrafted free agent running backs that are good. Why would you want to invest a first round pick on a position you can just as easily fill later in the draft.

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Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2012 12:51 AM CST up reply actions  

From the ball out?

So C > QB = OG > FB = OT > RB > WR?

Not sure that’s how I’d build it, but I’ve never built a championship team.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 15, 2012 4:21 PM CST up reply actions  

Draft Trent Richardson if he's there.

Jamaal Charles is a 195 pound running back coming off a major knee injury who has never carried in ball more than 230 times in a season as a pro. If Trent Richardson falls to them he would be the best player available. Thomas Jones is at the end of his career and Jamaal Charles is coming off a serious injury. Running backs slide in the draft, but Richardson is a special talent and too good for Kansas City to pass on. In 2011, Richardson had 24 total touchdowns (21 rushing, three receiving). He also ran for 1,679 yards, averaging 5.9 yards per carry. Richardson caught 29 passes for 338 yards and three touchdowns as well.

by OJ In Nevada on Jan 14, 2012 1:04 AM CST reply actions  

5.9? That's pretty good.

Almost as good as Charles was his last year at Texas when he got 6.3 yards per carry.

Running backs are just simply not worth first round picks. He would have to be a Hall of Famer before you could even have a conversation about whether he was worth it. Elite running backs are optional for Super Bowl winners. In fact, Marshal Faulk was probably the last running back to win a Super Bowl who will be in the Hall of Fame, or can even be considered elite.

by wustl_chiefs_fan on Jan 14, 2012 2:16 AM CST up reply actions  

Great Olines make average RBs look good

Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback

by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 14, 2012 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

I agree with you wustl on not drafting RB's in the first round...

On the poll, though, I get the feeling that it was a bit skewed to return a result in favor of your opinion. Can’t put my finger on why I get that feeling…hmmm must muse on it…

;-)

I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...

by WorL4Chiefs on Jan 14, 2012 9:56 AM CST reply actions  

that's simply because he's a professional ;-)
On the poll, though, I get the feeling that it was a bit skewed to return a result in favor of your opinion.

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Jan 14, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions  

Ahhh, that explains it! ;-)

I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...

by WorL4Chiefs on Jan 14, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions  

My take is Richardson is NOT the answer for a simple reason. Injury issues. He had

to sit some games out earlier in his career right? He buddy Ingram, a first round choice isn’t playing this post season as he is hurt, right? RB’s take a bunch of shots and as such the career path is much shorter than most any other position.

by dubld on Jan 14, 2012 12:03 PM CST reply actions  

Thereby supporting the logic that one takes not only the best player available at a given spot, but also

the player who best fits the needs of the team AND who is most likely to provide the greatest return on investment (playing value over a long period of time).

Since the data supports the fact that a team can get a good RB in later rounds or FA and that a RB’s shelf-life is shorter than most other positions, any team is better suited to address long term needs at other positions balanced with available players who fit those specific needs.

I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...

by WorL4Chiefs on Jan 14, 2012 12:29 PM CST up reply actions  

99% of the time a RB in the first round is a waste. Trent Richardson is NOT the 99%.

RB’s are a dime a dozen…they come in all shapes and sizes. You have you ‘quick’ backs who can hit the edge and take it to the house or catch the ball out of the backfield (like JC & DmC), you have your ‘power’ (like TJ & Battle) who can run between the tackles and or stay in to block for the passing game. Either can be found in the latter rounds of the draft.

What is RARE for a RB is a person who can “do it all”…Catch the ball out of the back field, hit the edge and take it to the house, bulldoze his way between the tackles, AND block for the passing game. That is what makes Richardson so special is he is truly a ‘do it all’ back. That is why he will go in the first round, and that is why any team (including our own Chiefs) that picks him up will get a HUGE upgrade at the position.

by DivineGrace on Jan 14, 2012 7:56 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

Good one. I'm more of a pinochle guy, though,

Slang Dictionary

euchre definition
[ˈjukɚ]
tv.
to cheat or deceive someone. : Those guys’ll try to euchre you, so watch out.

If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?

by electriclight on Jan 15, 2012 8:29 AM CST up reply actions  

Exactly, I had to go through 4 dictionaries to find your use of the word.

If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?

by electriclight on Jan 15, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions  

Euchre the Saints (Carl Nicks). Did I use that right?

Don’t forget that the highest drafted player on that Dallas O-line was a second rounder.

by fishhooks on Jan 15, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions  

B) Marshal Faulk

C) Eddie George.
D) Jerome Bettis
E) Tony Dorsset
F) Marcus Allen
G)Jamal Lewis
H)Shaun Alexander

only a few that have been to a Superbowl

by fishhooks on Jan 14, 2012 8:14 PM CST reply actions  

Why drafting a lineman is a waste.

I’ve never seen them interview a linemen at the end of the game. It’s always a QB, RB, or a wide out.

by OJ In Nevada on Jan 15, 2012 12:15 AM CST reply actions  

And the very first thing the QB, RB does in the interview is thank his linemen.

If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?

by electriclight on Jan 15, 2012 8:32 AM CST up reply actions  

I loved this post 1 problem though

There was only 1 option on your poll question. The other option should have been hell no

In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 15, 2012 2:19 AM CST reply actions   1 recs

I disagree with the premise that Richardson is the best since Peterson

Or the Andrew Luck of RB’s. He’s a really talented, first-round-caliber back, but not a once-in-a-decade type of player.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Jan 15, 2012 4:18 PM CST reply actions  

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