Chiefs GM Indicates Trading Up For A QB Is Unlikely
by Joel Thorman on Jan 12, 2012 10:00 AM CST
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Jack Harry of NBC Action News teased his interview with Kansas City Chiefs GM Scott Pioli Wednesday night on Twitter tweeting that Pioli said he will "NOT" trade up to get a quarterback in the 2012 NFL draft (lookin' at you, Robert Griffin III fans).
Pioli didn't explicitly state he won't trade up under any circumstances but did strongly indicate he was unlikely to do so.
"From year to year you have so many needs," Pioli said. "To start giving up multiple No. 1 picks, that's a big decision because right now we may say we have needs in these five areas and to sacrifice multiple drafts in the future, I tend to want to be a little more responsible than that.
"I didn't come here to win one championship. I didn't come here to get the quick fix, be done and move onto the next job. This is where our family is. This is where I want to spend the rest of my career.
"So what I'm gong to do is make prudent decisions to get the best players and get the best team built. Being too short-sighted and trading too many draft picks for any one player....I don't even know who the player is who I'd say I'd give up multiple first round picks based on where we're at."
Well then. My response would be to point out this story from Peter King of SI.com:
"Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff calls the safety-at-the-top-of-the-draft debate a conundrum. "It's been on my mind a lot lately," he said, "and I realize I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth here, but Berry's a really good player. It's been on my mind quite a bit recently. You want the good hitter with hip movement, able to turn and run, but then reality sets in. I was talking to [Kansas City GM] Scott Pioli about Berry, and I said, 'Scott, this guy's your pick.' And he said, 'You know how I feel about safeties that early.' And I understand.''"
This was written in March 2010. About a month before the Chiefs...drafted Eric Berry.
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Well, who needs a QB right?
Championship football is built with a strong running game, strong defense and solid fundamentals.
Signed, 1991
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:05 AM CST reply actions 4 recs
I don't know why anyone would believe anything these guys say
If he WAS wanting to move up (I doubt he is) he should be saying the exact same thing.
by kcsno56 on Jan 12, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I think it's more important to mean what you say than to say what you mean.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
There's a difference between saying "You know how I feel about ****" and saying "Doing ***** would be absolutely stupid and would mortgage our future."
You can say the first and draft a safety but you can’t say the second and draft RGIII.
Except that's not at all what he said.
He said he wouldn’t trade multiple number one picks.
Multiple. Number one.
There’s nothing saying a 1st, a 3rd and a player. Or any number of other possible combinations.
He’s just saying 2012 1st, 2013 1st and other stuff – isn’t likely to happen.
Pioli has shown that he’ll trade up for a player he wants. But how far and at what cost? He’s probably too conservative in his approach to bet the entire farm on one player.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
A Franchise QB is what you give up multiple pics for.
“So what I’m gong to do is make prudent decisions to get the best players and get the best team built. Being too short-sighted and trading too many draft picks for any one player….I don’t even know who the player is who I’d say I’d give up multiple first round picks based on where we’re at.”
Your never gonna win multiple anything with Matt " Happy Feet, Noodle Arm, Check down" Cassel
"You guys line up alphabetically by height."
--Bill Peterson
We've already waited 30 years to take a first round QB, what's another 30?
Sobs.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
....and we wonder why the Chiefs haven't won a playoff game in nearly 20 years???
By “playing it safe” and not ever trading up/drafting a big time QB prospect, the Chiefs continue to never contend for a Super Bowl.
Judging from his quote, it’s clear that Pioli doesn’t value the QB position nearly as much as he should. To me, that’s a near fireable offense.
It’s also clear that the Belicheck/Pioli brain trust believes that the “Patriot Way” and not Tom Brady is the reason they’ve been so successful over the years. Amazing how much ego can cloud one’s judgment.
It’s insane… they have no problem drafting "can’t miss’ prospects who turn into busts like Glenn Dorsey (yes I know that was Peterson and not Pioli) and Tyson Jackson, yet these guys continue to say it’s “too risky” to draft a QB. Give me a break.
I love the Chiefs. They will always be my team. But, man, it’s getting old watching the same dog and pony show of trotting out other team’s backup QBs and having this silly belief that they are “one or two” players away from winning the Super Bowl.
News flash: Sometimes Pioli lies to you.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
The old axiom states that "Defence and a solid Run game wins Championships".
The little known dis-claimer is that it applies as long as you have a QB who can make the big plays at the big moments. Oh and as long as the QB has some tools to work with and some protection to keep him upright. We need the whole package….but…..
We have waited so long and as a fan I have just so much patience. Yeah the great teams of KC history were built on Defense. The teams of the early super bowls had HoF players at all levels of the Defense. Buck Buchanon, Bell, Lanier, Emmitt….and they could Run the ball behind a huge overpowering line…..But they also had a HoF QB to make the big plays when it counted. Nothing has changed……
Current Champs have had great Defense and have run the ball OK…. But the missing piece for KC has usually been QB. Grback had potential but had no D. Joe Montana was OK, even in his later years, and almost got us there. Green suffered lack of D or he could have done it. But for those few exceptions KC has been without a Championship caliber QB for all those years since “Lenny the Cool”.
I would gladly give up a few high draft choices to have had a great QB to go along with some of our stout defenses and other offensive weapons. As an example; I think we would have done OK without our #1 and #2 in 2000 (Sylvester Morris or William Bartee). In fact I looked back since we wiffed on Todd Blackledge and about 1/2 of all drafts since then I would gladly have given our #1 and #2 for a proven playmaker at any position. In about 1/3 of those years I would have given up two consecutive years of #1 and #2 picks. Here are some of those great results of #1 and #2 picks:
1983 Blackledge and Dave Lutz,
1984 Maas and Radecic
1985 Horton and Hayes
1986 Jozwiak and Hackett,
1991 Williams and Valerio
1995 Trezell Jenkins and Vanover
1998 Victor Riley and Sheehee
2000 Sylvester Morris and William Bartee
2001 Downing and Minis
2002 Sims and Freeman
2003 LJ and Kawika Mitchell
2004 Siavii and Kris Wilson
2007 Bowe and McBride
2009 TJax and Alex Magee
I would be very comfortable if we gave away a couple of #1s and a couple of #2s to get a real good playmaking QB.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
by CatChief on Jan 12, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
The problem with giving up mutiple picks is the chance you set your franchise back years and years
So how sure a thing the guy is becomes a HUGE question.
RG3 looks pretty legit, but is he enough of a “sure thing” to risk mortgaging your future?
I have no idea, but that’s the question that needs to be asked.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Depends on what you're gonna do with those picks.
Trading away the first three rounds of our 2009 draft wouldn’t set us back much. The proof there is the fact that we actually did trade part of it.
On the other hand, trading away the first three rounds of our 2010 draft probably would set us back. But even there, there would be a lot of debate on how integral McCluster and Arenas are to our franchise.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I hear you
Generally I’ve liked Pioli’s picks, especially the high ones (T-Jax has developed into a solid DE, regardless of draft position), so it worries me a little.
But if they think there’s a decent shot that RG3 lives up to even most of the hype, they should go for it. Gotta take risks sometimes
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I call BS
If the Chiefs where ever in a position to do so it is now. The cap room is there to address another/multiple needed position through FA so if the risk is to ever be considered “minimal” compaired to other years it would be now. If you take a shot at a francise QB and it pans out you end up with a lot of good things right now. The team IMHO is primed for a good young QB to step in with this D and receiving cops and running game. If it doesnt pan out you are NO WORSE OFF then you where without that pick and scouring FA again or parting ways with good players to start rebuilding again which will happen anyway should no QB be put under center anyhow due to aging key players and contracts.
Pull the trigger already
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
unless we're god awful sometime soon
Which I don’t think we will be, well have to trade draft picks for a QB. Its not always true but most good QBs are top picks and if we don’t ever trade up for one, our chances of finding that guy are much lower. I like next years QB class better than this year so hopefully we figure it out in next years draft.
Time to take back the AFC West
Go Chiefs
by King of the Cassel on Jan 12, 2012 2:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Even if Pioli is going to trade up to take a QB early
he isn’t going to show his hand to Jack Harry or anyone else 3 months before the draft.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Jan 12, 2012 10:06 AM CST reply actions
All of this building for the future talk is great...
but if I get hit by a bus tomorrow, I am going to be pissed.
by Alex Pointer on Jan 12, 2012 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Thanks for that
Got a good laugh. Seriously though… don’t get hit by a bus.
don't get hit by a bus
… without putting it on youtube!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
and this is probably said somewhere below in the 700+ comments,
but if he publicly says he’s NOT going to do something in the draft, doesn’t that actually make it MORE LIKELY that he WILL do it?
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 12, 2012 6:25 PM CST up reply actions
Again, the way he said it, he's not going to go back on his word IMO.
What would he say, “You know guys, about that time I mentioned that I don’t want to screw the poodle and leave my family in the cold by giving up multiple 1st round draft picks… yeah, well, I was just joking, I really don’t like my family all that much, actually…”
This is not some simple “OH NOEZ, he’s just trying to make us think he won’t draft a quarterback!” Pioli has not only burned the bridge, he’s made a deal with Satan to cleave a rift in the valley the bridge used to cover and hired a balrog to guard it. He ain’t pickin’ RGIII.
No QB other then Luck worth trading up for and the Price for that would be too much
and unlikely to make a difference because Indy is taking him. You don’t sacrifice multiple picks on a guy thats the definition of boom/bust player.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Agree.
Needs to be a sure thing if talking about multiple picks. Still have a lot of needs to fill. An option might be to trade a player an pick or trade a player for mulitple picks and then package them to move up. Even then, you better be sure the player is a can’t miss. Other than Luck, I don’t see it.
Which means the exact oppositie could happen.
Remember when he would never take a safety in the top 5?
Remember when he took a noname DE with the 3rd?
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
But a QB not worth it?? i dont understand the logic, the most important position on the field and but we address DE 4 times last draft.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How do you figure we took 4 DE's?
Nor was Tjax a no-name DE, was the ’’best’’ 5 tech in that draft
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
ok i was being a bit mis leading, Bailey amd miller were the only DE's but tjax was a no name(1st round) until the week of the draft.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:30 AM CST up reply actions
Miller is a LB...
No, you may not have paid attention to the draft talk, Tjax was talked about as the best 5 tech prospect in that draft. He was mocked going later to Denver at like 17
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
Only if you weren't paying attention.
As has been pointed out, he was the best DE that fit what our team needed available in the draft. However, he wasn’t projected to go in the top 5 because there were other players out there who were top 5 material.
But, we weren’t drafting ‘Best Player’ at that point, we were drafting ‘Best Player at a position of need.’
If you look at our needs and how drafts back then played out - especially in the high rounds
You’d be hard pressed to find someone else that fit a need and was worth taking that high.
We’ve been through it a lot – and really BJ Raji is the only one that would fit the bill – and yes, we probably missed on that one.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:10 PM CST up reply actions
We're talking about '09 aren't we?
but yes, certainly it’s not always the case.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:43 PM CST up reply actions
Pioli's other two drafts have been more than solid though
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Indeed - '09 seemed rough for a lot of teams
The 1st round is littered with so called “bad picks”.
Green Bay really nailed it that year.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I haven't gone back through, but
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the worst 1st round in the 2000’s… maybe even in the last 20 years. It was definitely weak-sauce.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
No one we picked at #3 would have been our only need haha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:05 PM CST up reply actions
Who was top 5 material?
Sanchez, Curry, Crabtree, Heyward-Bey, Moreno, Monroe, Maybin, Andre or Jason Smith, hell even Raji has regressed this season. That draft class was pathetic with the exception of the USC linebackers, Orakpo, Stafford, Freeman, Maclin, and Harvin.
Monroe did pretty well this year I thought
But yeah, that was a bad draft
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
He didn't trade up to get Jackson.
Completely different scenario. It has nothing to do with him trading up for a QB really. I can’t see him trading up period.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Trading up in the third round is much different than trading up into the top-5.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
It still shows that Pioli is open to moving if it's a player he wants.
“Player he wants” being the key words.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
Those situations aren't even close.
How much did it cost him to move up to get Moeaki?
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
Ok
Last year Moeaki had a better season than Graham… and Moeaki’s hurt this year. By comparison in 2011, of course, Moeaki was toast, clearly Graham was better. If Moeaki was healthy and put up 1000+ yards this year would it matter? Sometimes you get Jim Kelly when the other team gets Dan Marino.
Let’s not also forget that Gronk/Hernandez have Brady throwing to them and Graham has Brees throwing to him. Could that have anything to do with it?
We still got a good TE in the 3rd round – it’s not like he went out and drafted Fendi Onobun ahead of all those other guys and tried to pass it off like he filled our need at TE.
Poor Bengals took Jermaine Gresham (considered the best TE avail) in the 1st round. But they could have traded back and picked up Gronk, Graham, Hernandez or Moeaki. They’re so stupid yeah? Gresham is a good TE, but he’s not Gronk or Graham. I wouldn’t say they wasted the pick though.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Moeaki IS injury prone. And they knew that when they picked him.
Not saying he won’t turn out to be a good pick in the long run. But you can’t ignore that when you evaluate the pick.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Gronkowski had injury issues too
Gronk missed all of 2009 with a back injury.
Graham was a basketball player and considered a project – he only had 17 receptions as a senior – in fact, it was the only hear he played football at all. It’s not like he was blowing the doors off of the NCAA. He had size and speed along with good hands.
Moeaki had an injury history for sure – so we’ll have to see how it shakes out in the long run.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:20 PM CST up reply actions
That is why Pioli...
needs to use heinsight like Brsrkr. Its so simple to use and is very effective. Pioli must be an idiot!
He was injured all through college. That was the only knock on him coming out,
and the entire reason he dropped to the third round. Not hindsight, memory.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
This got completely off target.
My point was, there is a big difference between trading up into the top 5 and trading up into the third round from the fourth.
The value isn't what should matter, it's that Pioli shows that he's willing to move...
If it’s a player he REALLY wants, he’ll go after him.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
Remember when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 12, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Always gotta bring the Nazis into it.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I wish people would stop that crap!
Providing COLOR commentary for Arrowhead Pride! AKA The Picture Diva!
"To be good is to be forgotten. I'm going to be so bad I'll always be remembered."-Theda Bara, silent film vixen
It's not funny when you have to explain it.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
He did say multiple first round picks.. not just 1 first round pick, Bowe, and mid picks...
/keepin the dream alive
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:11 AM CST reply actions
Get a QB but give away the best receiver he could throw to?
Seems like a pretty poor move…
If Bowe does not want to be here or wants too much money
Tag and trade him, as I have said all along. If we can re-sign Bowe I’m all for that
But hey I guess it would be better to just let him walk away if he doesn’t wanna be here, since getting a franchise QB for him is a poor move
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
This would be an intersting scenario...
provided Bowe was demanding a lot. I still wouldn’t do it for Griffin. I would have strongly considered something like this to get Barkley. Have to think a top level WR like Bowe would be of interest to both the Rams and Vikes who have a need at the position.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Or just franchise him
Work on a deal that would be done by TC, we could try that one.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 12, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
The question is, do you want to sign this guy to a long-term deal?
Bowe doesn’t strike me as the picture of motivation and work ethic all the time. I wouldn’t WANT to trade him now. Best scenario would be holding him with the tag until Baldwin shows himself to be ready. I don’t know if I trust Bowe with a Fitzgerald type deal.
BEST case scenario is he's signed long term for a reasonable amount
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
If we can't work out a deal with him, and franchise him.. doubt we would be able to work out a deal at all
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Tamba.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
I don't see Tamba and Bowe being the same type of people
If you do congrats haha
I still believe Bowe will ask for top 3 money, I know I wouldn’t give him that much
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:22 PM CST up reply actions
Not saying that.
Just saying franchising him does not necessarily rule out signing him long term.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Him asking for it
And getting it, from us or someone else is entirely different. No one is paying him that.
Erm - ask to be paid around what the three highest paid WR's in the NFL are getting.
Thought that was pretty cut and dry?
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
''Yeah we won't pay that much''
“’here’s a tag for ya’’
‘’oh don’t worry, you can play here with us with Cassel this next year!‘’
’’wanna sign our deal now?.. no?.. we have Cassel!’’
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:10 PM CST up reply actions
The point is
that he was saying he wouldn’t likely give up multiple number one’s. He didn’t say he wasn’t willing to give up players on the roster. Bowe, Dorsey, or whoever packaged with picks might be possible.
QB makes the receiver, not the other way around
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 12, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
I dunno. Thomas made Timmy look good last weekend.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Even as an H-Back, he hit the WR in stride.
Our QBs usually have had our WRs stop, jump, dive to catch slightly off target throws. Orton, to be fair, seemed a little more accurate than what we have seen lately. I could get used to an accurate QB who can hit his targets in stride.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
When 1 player (a receiver) touches a ball 6-7 times a game
and it is entirely dependent upon another to get the ball there (a QB) the QB is far important in that relationship.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 12, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
I agree that the QB position is more important.
I don’t think many would argue that. My point was that a receiver can make a QB look good. Case in point, D Bowe taking a 5 yard slant pattern to the house against the Colts. There are 100 QB’s in the league that make that throw. A small handful of WR’s take that play to the house.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
There is certainly give and take for both players to make it work
But there are plenty of low caliber receivers and QBs who can catch 5 yard passes and run 100 yards. There are far fewer QBs that can hit a receiver in stride 40 yards downfield or on a 25 yard back shoulder throw or 20 yard crossing route in stride.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 12, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
On air, yes.
But there are plenty of low caliber receivers and QBs who can catch 5 yard passes and run 100 yards
Both D bowe TD’s that game were a result of great plays being made by the WR. I’m not arguing that a QB doesn’t make WR’s look good. But Bowe is a WR that can make a QB look good. I think some people around here take that for granted (those that think he is expendable). Kyle Orton can make a WR look good and can make the aforementioned throws. See Copper and Pope in the last 3 games.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 11:09 AM CST up reply actions
Bowe certainly can make a QB look good. Cassel 2010 looked better than he actually is
because of a soft schedule and Bowe (with a healthy dose of JC and Weis added in). But look at the difference a QB makes with a WR: Welker wasn’t anything until he got to the Pats with Brady, Moss had a good QB in Minnesota and with the Pats, but he sucked in OAK, Tenn and Vikes part deaux, Marshall hasn’t lived up to hype in Miami
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 12, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think Welker had had a solid season with Miami
I believe BB explained the trade by saying, “When we played them we could never handle him, so we figured why not get him here instead.”
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Upon further review
Welker did have a decent final season with Miami, but nothing close to what he has done with NE and Brady.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 12, 2012 2:12 PM CST up reply actions
He's a good example of a very good receiver
Becoming an elite receiver under the right QB
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Which makes me wonder what Bowe could do
With a good QB.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Which is why I want Orton to stick around.
Rather than sell the farm and wife to get the #2 pick for Luck or RGIII, lets resign Orton and improve the entire team with our draft picks and free agents, rather than lose all that potential.
Luck and Griffin are better than Orton, but this allows us to improve our entire team.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:12 PM CST up reply actions
Luck and Griffin
May be better than Orton in a few years. But neither give us a better chance of winning in the next two years. I could be wrong (i doubt it). I don’t see either QB having the kind of year Cam Newton had. They might win more games. Assuming that either one of them land on a team with a respectable defense. The Panthers D seemed to have lost numerous games this year.
This may go against popular opinion around here, but i would rather have Orton for 2012 than Luck or Griffin. Can’t say the same about Cassel, Luck and Griffin will be more talented as rookies than Cassel is currently.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I think you're wrong about Luck
The guy’s legit. And I’d put at leat 50/50 odds on RG3 being a better rookie QB than Cam. He’s a MUCH more polished passer.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Cam had the best rookie season ever.
And you think RG3 has at least a 50% chance of being better in his rookie year?
Can I have some of what you’re smoking?
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
In today's NFL?
I wouldn’t doubt it.
Now, I don’t think either Luck or RG3 will land on a team with a great RB combo, a stud WR and good TE’s…
Cam got lucky with where he went in that the offense had some playmakers.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
So now you're saying he doesn't
have at least 50% chance of having a better year than Cam? I’m confused.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Mission accomplished!
I actually see RG3 as more likely to have a good rookie season than Luck. I think a team will trade up to grab him before the Browns do, and he’ll end up in a better position to succeed than Luck will be with the Colts.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
That said
Cam’s a stud, and I’d take him over almost any QB out there (given his youth and potential).
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Neither of them touch 4000 yards.
After perhaps the best season by a rookie QB in the NFL, Cam Newton is still underrated. I’m not taking anything away from RG3 or Luck, but i wouldn’t put money on either of them breaking the record Cam set this year.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:45 PM CST up reply actions
Cam Newton
Led an offense that scored 25.4 points per game, good for 5th in the league. Threw for 4051 yards and ran for another 706. 21 passing TD’s and 14 rushing TD’s.
Tell me how Luck and RG3 beat this.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
As a rusher? They won't
Newton had a fantastic rookie season. He was also fortunate enough to land on a team with a great RB duo and a stud WR to help him out.
If Luck or RG3 land on a team with a Steve Smith caliber receiver and that strong a running game to support them, I like their chances.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
And 21 TD's vs 17 INT's
Isn’t all that impressive.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
It is for a rookie.
Especially paired with 14 rushing TD’s. Steve Smith is great, but the Panthers O isn’t exactly stacked with weapons. Can yuo name another receiver on the Panthers? I can’t.
I’m not saying Luck or RG3 won’t be successful, they will. Neither will pass for 4000 yards though. And neither are significantly better passers than Cam. The same Panthers O was horrible the year before.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 5:02 PM CST up reply actions
2010 Carolina Panthers
Scored 12.2 pts/game, good for last in the NFL. 2011 Panthers scored over 25 points/game, good for 5th in the NFL.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 5:04 PM CST up reply actions
They also suffered from injuries all year to their RBs
And had horrible QB play along with a top WR who wasn’t even trying at that point.
Again, Cam’s a great player who had a stud rookie year. I’m just saying much of his success through the air was aided by the situation he landed in.
I’m perfectly fine differing in our opinions here…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
He doesn't seem underrated at all
I don’t think he’s overrated either. I think, if anything, he’s just rated.
There are a lot of people eating crow after this season – but I think he’s earned a great deal of respect in most corners. In the end, he still didn’t win a ton of games and he still made some bad throws – but that is to be expected of a rookie.
I think if Griffin or Luck don’t have as good a season – it will have more to do with what their coaches/teams do with them than their ability to do so. Not a lot of teams are going to let a rookie go out and do what they let Cam do this year – they’re going to try to manage them and let them grow at the pace they want.
Only time will tell.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
I'm still trying to eat all my crow leftovers.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Would you mind eating my beaks?
I always save them for last because I don’t care for the “crunch”. I can probably sautee them with some of the feet and anuses I have left if it will help.
I’ll gladly trade you for some feathers and a neck or two if you have them.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair
My point was that a receiver can make a QB look good. Case in point, D Bowe taking a 5 yard slant pattern to the house against the Colts. There are 100 QB’s in the league that make that throw. A small handful of WR’s take that play to the house.
That is pretty much what Thomas did with the wining pass from Tebow. Just think what might be if the QB were even more consistantly accurate than Tebow.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
True to a certain extent.
Mostly with top-level QB’s like Manning, Brady, Brees, etc. Past that, I think that evens out more and might even skew towards the receiver.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I'd personally hope a rookie QB sits a year behind a vet.
We might find/develop another receiver in that time.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm a fan, too
Wish he wasn’t so damn short, though.
"Show his hand"?
Pioli has no hand. He can ask a team what they want for their first pick. There is no poker being played here. If there is, it is all in Pioli’s head. You don’t “show your hand” when you have an interest in picking a player in the draft.
Pioli could say, “We’re always looking to improve our team. We’ll always use good judgment in moving up or down in the draft.”
Obtaining a franchise quarterback is the surest way to get to the playoffs, year after year.
Refer to the New England Patriots, Indianapolis Colts and Green Bay Packers for details.
by ChiefConcern on Jan 12, 2012 10:12 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
There is a bit of poker to be played
You also don’t want to go out and show how much you value a draft prospect. Staying mum about it prevents other teams focused on the same prospect from creating a bidding war early on.
Also, if you overvalue a pick, St. Louis for example could, in a sense, request more for their draft position if you make it obvious how desperate you are at a position.
It’s similar to regular team trades. Look at what the Browns dangled Carson Palmer for and waited for a team desperate enough to make a ridiculous offer…
Not saying I necessarily disagree but there is something to be said about not flaunting out how important you feel it is to obtain a higher draft pick for a specific player or position. On the flip side, I still don’t believe Pioli will address the QB position in this draft.
by JMagsKC1 on Jan 12, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sure you do.
If you reveal you’re trying to move up that high, and other teams want to, they’ll know they have to offer more than perhaps originally thought.
Colts used #1 pick but GB used about the 23rd and NE used #199.
We don’t have to mortgage future to get “the guy”. As many bold moves fail as succeed. We have too many needs. Even the Right QB of the Future will need more tools than we have now. We would still have to wait for success. Even if we got a top notch QB this year.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Yeah. How so?
Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, McCluster, Charles, Moeaki are not enough tools for a QB? Not to mention a defense top 10 defense on the other side of the ball? and good special teams…
O-Line
the best quarterbacks ususally have good lines. I say get beef up front. There will be more quarterbacks availible a year or two down the road. Plus, we don’t even have a co-ordinator, lets establish an offensive system, along with the beef and top it all off with a qbotf.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
There are ALWAYS more QBs available a year or two down the road.
It’s never easy to go get the top prospects no matter how long you wait.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Agreed
And if you see your team improving, then you have to at least attempt to take your shot in the one year we are in position to do so.
For a mid-level team like ours, a lot of this team building strategy being thrown around basically amounts to procrastination.
Or counting on winning the Brady lottery.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
By tools , I would mean the talent surrounding our QB. Right now we don't have an O-Line that can pass block or get the short yards when needed.
We lack depth at Run Back and TE. Our Defense has improved to the point that it can support a truly dynamic Offense. A QB alone would not transform the Chiefs into a dynamic Offensive team. That said, I would gladly start at QB even if I had to give multiple High picks. Just remember that QB is not the whole answer right now. We would still have to wait for the other pieces .
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
We're not as bad in pass blocking as a lot of fans make out.
We’re about in the middle of the league in sacks given up.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Well actually we gave up fewer sacks because we passed less than many teams.
The footballoutsiders O Line rankings for the 2011 season give an Adjusted Sack Rate stat that gives a better idea of a team’s pass blocking performance.
(Spoiler – we ranked 29th, which isn’t good)
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Uh....maybe you'll have to interpret that for me, 'cuz I see us ranked 19th....
That first table on the page, the blue “pass protection” columns? Is that what you’re looking at, or has a whole morning and half an afternoon at work numbed my brain?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Ack, I had two tabs open, one looking at the run.
My mistake, 19th (bit worse than average but not awful) in pass and 29th (awful) in run.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I thought I remembered that page.
Now I do remember – I was using the adjusted line yards to argue with somebody about Albert. You really want to see a stark showing of where our O line is weak, check out the directional run ranks:
Left: #6 and #1 (yea, Albert!)
Right: #27 and #25 (work harder, Barry)
Middle: #32 (dayum….)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Might be a function of pulling guards, too.
With Asamoah pulling around to the left and Lilja pulling around to the right.
And/or, a function of second level-blocking, with Lilja having a reputation as an excellent second-level blocker.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'll shut up and go back to work now.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Yeah. 3 pieces need to change.
But that’s counting Wiegs retiring (which is assumed by pretty much everyone here).
LG, C, RT is a pretty significant change on the O Line. Pioli wasn’t kidding when he said we need to fix things there. Good news is, at least one of those is already in-house assuming Hudson becomes the starter we think he will.
Still, it’s a little scary thinking we need 3 out of 5 guys replaced sooner rather than later.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Fortunately, we have the C or LG already in house
Hudson looked ready later in the season when playing for Lilja.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yeah. I'm really hoping he's ready to handle C (and making the reads / calling protections as the position demands)
I’d like a bit bigger / stouter guy to take over at LG. I like Hudson’s size for C. Not so much for G. (Thinking those elusive third-and-short situations we fail so hard at).
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
One happy thought
Hudson outweighs Weigmann by 15 pounds and is the same height.
That could go at least some of the ways towards helping out with thos situations you mentioned. DeCastro could do the rest.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
That's my ideal scenario.
Or Nicks if not DeCastro.
Now if we can just lock down a legitimate RT…
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Some good prospects in the draft
Not so much in FA from what I’ve seen.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
2 dream offseasons for me
A) We trade whatever to land RG3)
B) We spend our 1st pick on DeCastro, our 2nd pick on the best RT available, and use FA to address our (relatively few) defensive weak spots.
Either one works for me.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yeah, after Cassel broke his hand
our sacks went way down.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Brady and Warner strike me as exceptions that prove the rule.
How many Superbowl quarterbacks were drafted in Round 1 vs all other rounds/undrafted?
That statistic has to be out there somewhere.
by Chief Farmer on Jan 12, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Here - enjoy
Total SB Championships by QB by round – total by draft round (45 Super Bowls to date)
1st rounders – 26 – some are multiple wins by the same QB, only 17 unique QBs (Griese x2, Plunkett x2, Bradshaw x4, Aikman x2, Elway x2)
2nd rounders – 3 – (Stabler, Favre, Brees)
3rd rounders – 5 – 2 unique (Joe Montana x4 and Hostetler)
4th rounders – 1 – (Theismann)
6th rounders – 4 – 2 unique – Tom Brady x3 and Mark Rypien
9th rounders – 1 – thank you Brad Johnson
10th rounders – 2 – Roger Staubach
17th rounders – 2 – Bart Starr
Undrafted – 1 – Kurt Warner
So, not only are 1st rounders disproportionately represented (of the 32 QBs that have won SBs, 17 were 1st rounders, about 53%) – but late round winners were usually the same person multiple times. This further solidifies the “diamond in the rough” perception with great late-round QBs.
It would seem that 1st rounders give you the best shot by a considerable margin.
Quickly let’s look at SB appearances by QB by round (not just winners – and with less detail).
1st rounders – 47 – 27 unique
2nd rounders – 6 – 5 unique
3rd rounders – 12 – 7 unique
4th rounders – 4 – 3 unique
5th rounders – 1
6th rounders – 7 – 4 unique
8th rounders – 1
9th rounders – 2
10th rounders – 4 – 1 unique
17th rounders – 2 – 1 unique
18th rounders – 1
24th rounders – 1
Undrafted – 4 – 2 unique
Again – looks like it’s pretty safe to say that a 1st round QB gives you the best shot overall.
The thing that I think skews this the most in people’s opinion – is that Tom Brady (3 wins) and Joe Montana (4 wins) stand out as great QBs and neither were taken in the 1st.
Interesting Note – I didn’t know this but Jim Plunkett, Craig Morton and Kurt Warner are the only 3 QBs to take two different teams to the Super Bowl – Plunkett won both. Damn you kicker-who-shall-not-be-named for robbing Montana of being on this list!!
Interesting note #2 – Jim Kelley and Fran Tarkenton appeared in a combined 7 Super Bowls and never won a title. So close but so far away.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:18 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Except Montana was not our Qb when Elliot missed those frozen rocks
It was Bono
by paulredfish on Jan 14, 2012 12:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
correct - mistype
the data (totals) should still be correct barring that mistake.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Great analysis and interesting notes.
Some of those later round picks were only a later round because they were uniquely smallish or thought of as athletic or from a military academy or both. True that a high pick on a QB does not guaranty success but it doesn’t hurt to at least try. Something lost on KC “Brain Trusts” for many years.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
and a MUCH better comparison would be to find out how many QB's were drafted in the first round
Then compare that number to how many won SB’s. The percentage is a whole lot lower
Well yeah, not every 1st round QB wins a SB
But there is a hell of a lot better chance winning a SB with a 1st round draft pick than a 5th (based on those numbers, as well as reality)
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
just in the 2000's 23 QB's were drafted in the first round
3 have won super bowls. And those number don’t show the percentage of QB’s drafted in the first is substantially higher than all the other rounds so the numbers are skewed.
2011: 4 QBs in the first, 3 in the fifth.
2010: 2 in the first, 2 in the fifth
2009: 3 in the first, 2 in the fifth
2008: 2 in the first, 4 in the fifth
Back to 2008, it’s even. I could keep going, but I don’t see any real reason to…..
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
What percentage of fifth rounders have won SB's?
According to Ocho, one has actually been there….and that’s it.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
What i'm saying is this
In the 90’s and 2000’s 53 first round QB’s were taken and 5 won SB’s. Not a home run by any stretch
No such thing as a pre-ordained home run in the draft.
But first round gives you about…..infinity times the chance of winning a SB as a fifth rounder.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
so what you're saying is having more draft picks give you better chances at success?
So the smart thing to do would be accumulate more draft pick instead of giving them away?
Where did you get that?
Look at Ocho’s numbers. If we had a gazillion fifth round QBs, how many SB’s would we have won?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
But we're talking QBs :)
I’m not that easily distracted, mister.
SQUIRREL!
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And what I was really pointing out is that this statement of yours proves that you're tailoring your logic to follow your pre-formed opinion.
percentage of QB’s drafted in the first is substantially higher than all the other rounds
Obviously extremely untrue since I just started counting FIFTH rounders, and got even numbers over four years.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And what I was really pointing out is that this statement of yours proves that you're tailoring your logic to follow your pre-formed opinion.
percentage of QB’s drafted in the first is substantially higher than all the other rounds
Obviously extremely untrue since I just started counting FIFTH rounders, and got even numbers over four years.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
We can just look at QB's in the playoffs right now:
Green Bay: 1st
SF: 1st
NO: 2nd (#32 overall)
NYG: 1st
NE: 6th
Balt: 1st
Hou: 5th (on a record earned by the Schaub)
Den: 1st
Houston isn’t winning the SB this year. If they do, it’s a heck of an argument for not going after a QB…but I highly doubt it.
and Denver isn't winning it either
with a 1st rounder that should have been a third
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I'm no Tebow fan
But his performance last week was off the charts. The best playoff performance statistically in the last 4 years.
10 of 21, wasn't it?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I thought maybe you were talking about the TV ratings statistics.
Downright depressing, those are.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I don't know about that - even last year - Rodgers vs. Atlanta
31 of 36 for 366 and 2 TDs + 1 rushing TD
Brees SB win in ’09 – 32 of 39 for 288 and 2 TDs was more impressive.
80%+ completion > 48% completion…. just a bit
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Sure...but 15 ypa?
Also:
• Tebow finished with a Total QBR of 97.3, not far from a perfect mark of 100. In the QBR era, beginning in 2008, that’s the highest mark in a single playoff game, just besting the 97.2 by Aaron Rodgers in last year’s Divisional Round game against the Atlanta Falcons.
It would have been lower
If he could complete a mid/short range pass instead of feeding them to the dirt. Apparently the only thing he can throw is a deep pass to single man coverage.
Something tells me he’s not going to see a lot of that going forward.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
But his running ability forces teams to play that defense
So it’s tough to keep safeties back, as he’ll run for a bunch of 7-8 yard gains on you.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
perhaps
and maybe Pitt struggled more because their corners really aren’t that fantastic.
We pulled it off by having the balance of good coverage and a solid containment rush.
They’re still just running the perma-wildcat there imo.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:53 PM CST up reply actions
Ha, perhaps not.
Tebow still throws the short outs into the ground. He did in that playoff game, too. He completed that OT slant because he had enough space to do his loopy college wind-up.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Absolutely
and not just the outs – not sure why but I distinctly remember a WR on a crossing pattern that had his guy beat by like 5 yards at least… the pressure wasn’t on him (that I recall) and he buried it in the dirt about 10 yards in front of the WR (not in front in terms of where he was running as if t suggest he was leading him, but like… between Tebow and the WR).
It completely blew my mind. Like that backwards pass by Andy Dalton.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 4:09 PM CST up reply actions
Yes! I thought I remembered that pass, too, but wasn't sure.
Since you remember it, I must’ve not been imagining things. I think the receiver was almost directly in front of him and just off to his right. I think he missed the throw because he felt rushed.
He’s only accurate when he has time to do that big arm loop that he grew up with. He tries to do an NFL-type throw, it looks like a rehab patient learning to walk again.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
You nailed it about our corners
That allowed us to play them the way the Steelers couldn’t, and do it well.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
One safety.
Not safeties. Not having Ryan Clark (I think that’s his name) really hurt Pitt. As great as Polamalu is, he’s not exactly a speed merchant, and he is very aggressive. He won’t stay back.
Denver showed a two TE set, and Pitt crept up on the run. Ike missed the tackle initially by going too high and getting straight-armed, and it was over because there was no safety to help. Foot race. Damn, that Tebow is fast.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
I think he's using that new-fangled ESPN scale.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
C'mon man!
Yeah, Tebow made good throws downfield to open receivers that Pittsburgh inexplicably let get behind them with no safety over the top. You could argue Matt Cassel could have made those throws. 51, 56 and another long one, thirty something I think.
Overtime: a really good throw but the receiver went 65 yards after the catch, again, no safety over the top, and it’s a great game by Tebow? He made good plays at the right time against an overly-aggressive defense selling out on the run.
By the way, the OT play had an illegal formation that wasn’t called. Should have been negated. Two TE set, and the TE on the left side wasn’t on the line of scrimmage. Gets called ALL THE TIME unless the Second Coming is the QB.
Not sure how 47% completion rate is the best playoff performance statistically in the last 4 years, or even this year. Did you see Brees? Uff da.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Ok, well you can go off, like your opinion, or read what I said
And that it was statistically the best performance in 4 years (at least that).
And then I gave the stat. So…
Look, there literally isn’t a player i dislike more in the NFL, but if you can’t see that he had a great game, you’re letting your bias get in the way of fact. He averaged fifteen yards per attempt! And actually, those bombs weren’t short throws that got broken, they were legit downfield throws.
That's true, he had a high QBR
but he only completed ten passes. The 51 and 56 yard completions were legit downfield throws. So was the one against the Chiefs in KC where Flowers got beat and handed off to a safety too early, and the safety was late.
That is when KC figured out the ONLY way Tebow can beat you is to let him scramble left and/or throw downfield to open receivers behind the coverage.
Pittsburgh obviously didn’t get the memo. Those legit throws are incompletions in coverage. No, Pittsburgh doesn’t have the Brandons, but they screwed the pooch on the two areas where Tebow can kill you. Bad on them, good for Tebow.
A high yards/attempt stat just means he didn’t throw much, and when he did, he hit for big yardage. How does that happen? Blown coverages. Good throws. If that equates to “great” for you, cool. It equates to game management for me. Go on with your Tebow love, you’ll be in a lot of company.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
LOL
It equates to what I said earlier, which is the best statistical game in the playoffs in 4 years.
IDK why you are bring the Chiefs into this. I was talking about the Pitt game.
And I hate Tebow, but just like when I analyse every player/game, I am able to put my personal feelings aside and evaluate what is actually happening on the field.
Tebow played a great game.
I’ll qualify it. Tebow played a GREAT game. For Tebow.
Ten of 22 or some such? Dude’s GREAT.
He single-handedly won that game, just like all the other Denver wins with him behind center.
The losses? Clearly someone else’s fault.
Tim Tebow THE GREAT. Better?
/snarkiness intended
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
All things I didn't say
So keep arguing with yourself
Last year
All 4 QB’s in the championship round (Ben, Sanchez, Rodgers and Cutler) were 1st round picks.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 11:45 AM CST up reply actions
So Sam Bradford is a bad QB?
So Matt Stafford is a bad QB?
So Cam Newton is a bad QB because he didn’t win a SB his first year?
The book isn’t closed on them.
So ok now, do the same numbers of QB’s drafted in the 5th round.
No one is saying 1st round QB = SB.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
No but
Jamarcus Russel, Brady Quinn, Jason Campbell, and Matt Leinhart are. For every good QB you show me from the first round I can show you 2 shitty ones.
There is certainly risk
But there is risk no matter the position. Also, with the change in the rookie salary scale, the risk is far less than it was in the past.
when you're talking trading multiple firsts and also later round picks you're risking much more
than if you were already in a position to take one and whiffed
This conversation is getting old, I have work to do/
All I’m saying is if you are looking for an elite QB (which every team is), there is a greater chance to find him in the top of the draft than to hope a Brady, Romo or Warner falls to you. The rule is, good QB’s are drafted in the 1st round, but there is an exeption to the rule (guys I named) but hoping they land in your lap is a foolish way to run a football team.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
To be fair
Two of the guys who made it to their conference championships were not elite QBs.
Sanchez is average if not worse, and Cutler’s only above average IMO.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
But we're talking draft position vs success, and Cutler was drafted #11 overall.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Romo or Warner "falls" to you?
Weren’t they both undrafted?
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
So, craig, a "less" foolish way
is to build a “Super Bowl ready” team like Houston (your words) and plug in a fifth rounder (T.J. Yates) because you can win in spite of him?
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Ok, Done
QBs drafted by round – going back to 1956 since that’s where Unitas was drafted, i.e., the earliest draft to produce a SB winning QB. This is going to be a little skewed because there are many players from ‘56+ that probably didn’t even make it till ’67 to even have a chance at playing in a SB.
Round – total QBs drafted – number of winners – % from that round to win SB
Round 1 – 123 total – 17 winners – 13.8%
Round 2 – 63 total – 3 winners – 5.8%
Round 3 – 69 total – 2 winners – 2.9%
Round 4 – 72 total – 1 winner – 1.4%
Round 6 – 88 Total – 2 winners – 2.3%
Round 9 – 30 total – 1 winner – 3.3%
Round 10 – 37 total – 1 winner – 2.7%
Round 17 – 24 total – 1 winner – 4.2%
Again, data gets a bit screwy with the super late round drafts since the draft has been cut down in duration over the years. It is logical that the sample size of round 9, 10 and 17 QBs is much lower – so take those percentages with a grain of salt.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
sure - but still
Look at the success rate with 1st rounders compared to all other rounds
Looking at ratios – 1st rounders comparatively
1st vs. 2nd – 2.4 to 1
1st vs. 3rd – 4.75 to 1
1st vs. 4th – 9.85 to 1
1st vs. 6th – 6 to 1
Your odds are still higher with higher picks.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying first round QB's aren't better than later round ones
Not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying that in the state our team is in you don’t sell the farm for a guy like RG3 when it’s very unclear how good he is going to be in the pro’s
Certainly - and all I'm doing is spitting numbers
If we went purely by what is above – you should never draft a QB in the 5th round because they’ve never won a SB, and that’s just silly.
Risk vs. Reward here is subjective. You’re risking less by taking a QB in the late rounds – and if he doesn’t pan out you can chalk it up to the fact that he probably wasn’t supposed to – but you’re taking that chance. The risk is very high with an early QB. The expectations are high and if he doesn’t pan out then you’ve “blown” that pick and it likely came at the expense of fortifying another position.
The door can swing both ways here.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with taking the risk if we were sitting there at number 2
but to trade up into that number 2 slot is ridiculous
I can agree with that
Especially moving from #11/12 up to #2 – the cost associated probably doesn’t make sense.
And no matter what, if we don’t take a QB – somewhere later in the rounds someone is going to find a decent guy and fans will throw a hissy fit about how we could have had that guy earlier instead of player X.
Everybody has to live with whiffs – whether you whiffed on Rodgers, Favre, Montana, Brady, Warner… it’s not an exact science (or Madden) – and that’s part of what makes it so fun. Some of the guys that are supposed to be good aren’t and some that aren’t supposed to be good end up being superstars.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I tend to look at whether we should trade up for a QB
and what bust potential Griffin specifically owns, as two different arguments.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
and I'm wrong about "the kicker" and Montana
that was 96 I believe – after Montana was gone.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
What this tells me is that you should draft a QB on the first or second day (Rounds 1-3)
Or you are basically drafting a backup. Hoping for a miracle when your starter goes down. That kind of thing. Where did KCQB#7 get drafted again?
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
7th round, 230th overall
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
How about just looking at the QBs that made the playoffs this year
1st Rounders:
Rodgers, Manning, Ryan, Stafford, Smith, Flacco, Tebow, Rothleisburger
Other:
Brees (2nd Round, acquired via FA), Dalton (2nd Round), Yates (5th Round), Brady (6th Round)
So 8/12 are guys drafted in the first (although I consider Tebow and Smith 1st round QBs in name only).
So obviously the best odds are to get a 1st round prospect, but that doesn’t mean you can win with a guy acquired elsewhere. The top 3 QBs in the league this year are Rodgers, Brees and Brady. Each one came to their team differently. 1st round, FA, 6th round.
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Answer: a much lower percentage than other QBs that didn't make the playoffs.
Didn’t even have to bust out my calculator for that one.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
1st round contracts
With big 1st round contracts teams tend to let them develop more than late round qbs…I think the numbers are skewed a little because later round qbs don’t get a chance as often
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 12, 2012 12:30 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You don't think that has to do with the initial evaluation that put them in later rounds in the first place?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I think that plays into the equation as well...
Take Alex Smith for example….If he wasn’t a first round QB do you think he would have had as many chances?
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 12, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel are still kicking around...
Just for example :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
It would be interesting to see...
How many of those 1st rounders won the Super Bowl with their original team (I imagine the majority of them). Only 3 QB’s have done it with 2 different teams. We always talk about QB’s and their ability to grow in the same system. I would bet the majority of those Super Bowl winners were in the same system for their first 3 years in the league. Looking at Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel they have been through 2 teams and a bunch of different coordinators. Now using my Alex Smith example (doesn’t work with the coordinators but he hasn’t won a Super Bowl). Would Alex Smith be a better QB if he hadn’t gone through a million coordinators? It would be hard to argue that he wouldn’t be.
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 12, 2012 2:39 PM CST up reply actions
Only 3 have MADE it to the SB with different teams... and one is a technicality (my bad)
only ONE has won a SB with two different teams – and really, they were the same team.
Jim Plunkett won with the Oakland Raiders in the ‘80/’81 season and then won again with the Los Angeles Raiders in the ‘83/’84 season. So technically they had different names but it was the same team/organization.
No QB has won a SB and gone to a completely different organization and won another.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
I gotcha...
It just seems that 1st round QBs have more of a chance with their organizations than later round qbs. Since the team invested so much they have given them more of a chance. You should make your post a fan shot or fan post. I imagine it would have quite a bit of discussion.
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 12, 2012 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
Get the Oline first
then get the QB
Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback
by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 12, 2012 5:40 PM CST up reply actions
Looks like the fifth round is due for a Super Bowl winner to catch up,
come one Rick(-y) Stanzi…
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Jan 12, 2012 1:46 PM CST up reply actions
Yates this year :)
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 12, 2012 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
I kinda feel like Houston will be in the Super Bowl
I don’t think they will win it tho. It just depends which Ravens team shows up. I think if they get past the Ravens they can beat the Pats. Run all over the Pats and keep Brady off the field.
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Jan 12, 2012 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
And I have another technical error in there
Plunkett won two SBs with the Raiders – once as Oakland and once as LA – so while I said “two different teams” it was really the same organization, just in different locations.
That’s what I get for looking at team abbreviations as opposed to the full name.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Orton probably won't sign here with Cassel on the roster
Cassel is Pioli’s guy. Also, Crennell has a three year contract. That’s pretty short and people who want to make long term decisions might shy away.
by ChiefConcern on Jan 12, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
I like Foles
but rather see an olineman than Richardson in the first round, although I wouldn’t be upset with getting him either.
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
I like Foles a lot
But I think we’d have to use our 2nd on him.
Don’t think he’ll fall to our 3rd.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m fine if they choose to do that…but he’s not a later round guy.
thats True, ok richardson, Foles, then all OL ?? haha
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
We have too many needs to take Richardson in round 1, imo
I also am not sure he’ll make it to us.
Yes we can probably pick up a free agent running back
Bush, Tolbert, Hillis.. just to name a few.
by Bigcherokeechief on Jan 12, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
you would rather have them over Richardson?
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
It's not a who would you rather have question
If you take Richardson, you are passing on other areas of need.
As I said below, I’d rather have Richardson than Tolbert, but I’d rather have Reiff and Tolbert than Richardson.
by kcsno56 on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
I don’t see how people think Richardson should be an option in the first. Charles, Battle, McCluster. What’s wrong with that as a three-headed monster? Maybe a later-round back to supplement.
I know people want to hedge against Charles getting hurt again, but you don’t need to spend a first rounder to do that.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
whats wrong? Well i see 1running back out of the 3 and that 1 tore his ACL .
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
So by that rationale TE is more important than RB.
Moeaki tore his ACL and there’s NO ONE behind him.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:52 AM CST up reply actions
Battle goes down if someone touches his shoestrings and Mccluster is only good in the open field(too little). We need a rb that can break takels
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 12, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
McCluster averaged 4.5 yards per carry behind a decent at best O-line.
We’re talking about guys who are going to be getting a handful of carries a game. I’m not wasting a first round pick on a guy who might not be better than either of them and will only get 15 carries max per game anyway.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Our line was terrible at run blocking
The fact that Dex ran behind it as well as he did, especially given the sometimes mystifying way he was used, speaks volumes for his ability as a playmaker
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I disagree with both of those statements
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Hilliis is overrated and is a crybaby
Bush ? Idk why he would leave Miami when he had about his best season as a running back in the NFL . Tolbert , maybe but maybe not . That leaves us battle
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Mike Bush from oakland i think is who hes talking about
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
O haha , I gotcha
Yea that’s a pretty big gamble also. Seeing Oakland needed him when McFadden stubs his toe. I bet they keep him . Or he goes to a team like the bengals or to the NFC
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Bush won't leave Miami
The weather is too nice there. It gets too cold for him here in KC. He played college at USC, drafted by the Saints and then went to the Dolphins. All warm weather/dome teams.
Hell, I don’t really blame him.
Michael Bush on the other hand would be a sweet pick up.
Max: Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
yea we do and we have money to address those in FA or later rounds. If were not going to address the QB why not make our run game the best in the league, its really a no brainer. I would much rather be dominant in a run game for years.
We can address OL in FA and get “proven linemen”
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Y running backs last 4-5 years why not get one to start with and not one that has fallen off(hillis)
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Look, there are plenty of examples of good RB's in FA, just last year
And if they only last 4-5 years, we shouldn’t be drafting in the 1st regardless.
Um y thats 5 years of dominace!! and with the AFC West the way it is i would take 5 years the postseason
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
We have a premier RB
We can get a complement in Tolbert or Bush in the offseason. Neither looks washed up at this point to me.
Raiders arent going to let Buch go knowing DMFadden cant last a whole season. Tolbert might be available but i would rather have richardson. I mean come on hes the closest thing to AP..
And PS our Premier RB tore is ACL, and sometimes could take up to two years to recover and sometimes they dont ever get their speed back.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
I would rather have Richardson than Tolbert
But I would rather have Reiff or Martin and Tolbert than Richardson.
by kcsno56 on Jan 12, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions 4 recs
AGREED
Max: Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
green that
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Every year we see RBs come out of no where
And also see RBs drop like flies.. how is that worth a 1st round pick? let alone the 11/12th pick that we may get 7-8 years from? let alone a part time back
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
he wouldnt have been a part time back this year
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
So let's twist the future around to fit the past?
Come on now..
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
exactly
I would rather they go Oline in the first and pick up RB later on
by banshee_01 on Jan 12, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
AP hasn't gottent the Vikes to the playoffs, or even out of the cellar.
Steven Jackson hasn’t gotten the Rams out of the cellar.
Both outstanding backs, but the days when a power back could carry a team are loooong gone.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
AP hasn't gotten the Vikes to the playoffs?
They were a 12 man in the huddle penalty 2 years ago from being in the Superbowl
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
AP is still there, Favre is not, and look where they're at.
Losing to us.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
He got them to the playoffs before Favre
…or are you saying that was all Tavarias Jackson’s doing?
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Just look at where they are at now.
Or quit ignoring St. Louis and Steven Jackson. Whichever.
I’m not saying that a stud of a power back isn’t valuable, I’m saying that one can’t carry a team like it was still the ’70s.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
How many carries do you think there are to go around?
Charles 15, Battle 7-8, McCluster 7-8 = 30 carries. Yeah there’s the possibility Charles gets hurt. So take a later round back, who could very well end up being as good as Richardson, for depth. What do you not understand about not needing to spend a first rounder on a RB? Take a look at the study above about QB’s and think about it for RB’s. You can find them in ALL rounds an the guys taken in the first round bust quite a bit.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
5 years of 1 and done because we don't have a QB to beat defenses that stack the box
Or keep up with high powered offenses… woo hoo!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Orton can spread it out, Im just praying Cassel isnt around next year
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Orton aint on the roster
So in effect you are wishing for Orton.. instead of a great QB prospect…
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
No im wishing for Orton to be the Starter, we have Stanzi and we draft Foles, So in reality we have 2 prospects
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah Stanzi nor Foles is a great QB prospect
Orton aint a long term solution and is a FA so he may not even be here next year…as of now its Cassel/Palko/Stanzi
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
I disagree with you on Foles
I think he’s a decent prospect. Someone I think we could/should look at in round 2.
Big, strong, tough, accurate. Needs to improve his decision making…certainly not perfect. Worth a shot in round 2.
If we aren’t going to move up for RG3, I’d like to see them draft Foles…
Palko, I would bet you anything will not be on the roster next year. He’s not under contract any more than Orton is, remember.
You disagree that Foles is not a great QB prospect
Because.. he is a decent prospect.. ok
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I would go after Brock before Foles if I am looking for another kid to try to develop
Hell Cousins would before Foles
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
If we don't go big, I'd prefer we go small.
As in wait till the fifth round at the earliest. Stanzi’s presence shouldn’t affect our effort to get a primo guy, but he definitely should affect our strategy for obtaining other developmental guys.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I want them to take the guy they think has the most upside
Whenever they think the value is there. I like Foles, but if they take someone like Lindley or Wilson in the 4th or 5th, I’m fine with that too, if they think those are the guys that can develop into franchise guys.
Stanzi, imo, is almost a non-factor. I like the guy and all, but he can compete next year for his spot at #2. It should be rookie, vet, Stanzi on the roster next year, the order should be determined by who we bring in (or back), and who wins the job.
My thinking is that the odds of success for a QB drop off so much
after the first and early second rounds, we might as well address other needs with those third and fourth round picks, then wait to roll the dice on a prospect later on.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
To get Foles, imo
We’ll have to use our 2nd rounder. And he may not get to us there, either.
But yes, in general I agree with you. I just think that no matter what we have to bring in a rookie…even if it’s later.
If we stay the developmental course, then I agree we absolutely have to keep bringin' em in.
Although, I would like to see us get a solid vet backup for Cassel/Orton even more.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I think we've had this talk...
We are only carrying 3 QB’s…so if Stanzi isn’t ready to at least compete with a rookie QB for the backup spot, then yes, bring in a vet.
I would hope he is, and if he is, then I’d roll the dice with Cassel/Orton, rook, Stanzi. Otherwise, there is no development.
Yeah, we talked about carrying four QBs.
And how far through training/evaluation you can do that…..
But yeah, I hope Stanzi can perform somewhat, uh, verteranly this coming preseason, make it unnecessary to carry that extra backup vet.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I was all for carrying a vet going into this season
But one would hope Stanzi will have progressed. If they don’t feel he has, then…his time here may be short.
As a solid developmental guy
Not a great day 1 starter prospect
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Fortunately we're way past day 1. :)
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
And he couldn't even see the field over Palko ;)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Only because Haley was being a jackass.
First thing RAC did was move Stanzi ahead of Palko.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Says some
Who knows Palko could have gotten injured, we don’t know everything that happens at Arrowhead.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
Bam who do you want us to draft with our first pick? Everybody has their own opinions
but it seems like you just comment on what everybody else wants, I mean i want RG3 too, but in reality it ain’t happening
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Uh I have said several times
If we are at our pick, DeCastro
If we can trade up, RGIII
If we trade down, likely Minnifield
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
Free Agency starts before the draft, back to normal this year
What we do in free agency will dictate a lot of what we do in the draft
Oh wow look Ram knows what common sense is ;)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
I am such a fan of people that live life thinking they are smarter than everyone else
I know when FA starts. So if you are campaigning for Nicks, and he is signed (which I doubt…but you tried to convince me could happen the other day) then who do you want in the 1st?
It’s funny, Captain Common Sense spent 20 comments trying to convince me that we would end up drafting 7th this year when there were 3 games left in the year. I tried convincing you that it was nearly impossible and that 10th was the highest we could realistically pick…you we’re right then, too, I guess.
So because I would want Nicks
That means if we got Nicks I would still want DeCastro? No. That is common sense, something you obviously didn’t use. I’m not going to try to come up with every single possibility how things could change between now and the trade, the different FA’s we could get, cuts, trades, etc.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
It doesn't seem that difficult
You are campaigning for signing Nicks and drafting DeCastro. So you have a scenario for trading up and trading back, but not for what you would actually do if in the GM chair?
Hardly seems like common sense.
Let's see.. getting a guard replacement would be key
Hmm so let’s get both?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
smh
The same thing I asked you originally.
If we sign a guard in FA, what are you wanting at that point in the draft.
No you asked
Bam who do you want us to draft with our first pick?
Nothing about FA, you added that in after the fact
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
Likely a trade down, mills has made some good points about
Reiff and Martin in the first, both need work.. why go after one of those when you could get Adams/Sanders in the second?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
and its obvious we dont have a chance to get a "great QB prospect"
So lets go with what gives us the best chance to win, Orton is going to be the best FA qb on the market, pending payton/colts decision.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
We don't have a chance why?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Beacuse there's only 2 and we draft 11 or 12 and are commenting
on a article that says Pioli wont move up.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Cause a GM is supposed to tell what he is going to do before the draft?
Yeah.. why didn’t I think that the quote which actually didn’t say we WONT move up is exact truth
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Well you know what i mean, Pioli will stick to his ways and most likely trade back. common man we both know there is a lot of truth to this article :)
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
What are his ways?
Taking a safety #5 overall when he is the best prospect? Taking a 5 tech #3 overall because he was the safest bet? Trading up for players like TonyM?
Or wait.. trading down cause that’s what New England does?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
1st time hes every done that!!(berry) and Tjax was not the best pick
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
Safest I didn't say best
Who else? Were you one of the ‘’curry lovers’’ who thought he was the next DT? Or who? Raji was a unkown and pothead… still has not looked good when asked to 2 gap.
He traded up for Mayo an ILB which position doesn’t have a lot of ’’value’’
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
yep at the time i wanted Curry and still do( i wish i could say i wanted Raji tho)
He was a beast for oakland, he just wasnt right in Seattle. I think that we already had a tjax in dorsey, so i veiw it as a wasted 3rd overall pick.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
That "my opinion" tho
Berry was the right pick, but that goes without saying
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
We didn't know how Dorsey would work in the 3-4
Curry had no place in this defense
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:03 AM CST up reply actions
Umm outside opposite of Hali( we have houston now but could of used Curry)
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
and to be honost it wouldnt surprise me at all if Crennel took Vontaze Burfict. to shore up the D
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Curry was a WILB prospect
that has now been taken advantage of in coverage
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
regarding Burfict
you aren’t suggesting that we take him in the 1st round, are you?
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Sure y not? The "hot head" Ray Lewis turned out ok and the same thig was said about him
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
And he only killed two people
Small price to pay!
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Dude he was found inncocent and all you want to do is talk
about off field incidents, lets stick to on the field, shall we??
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:58 PM CST up reply actions
He was acquitted.
So was O.J.
Lewis didn’t kill the dude; he just covered up for his buddy that did shove the knife in.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Well at least now I know who can't take a joke
I’ll keep all of my Pac Man Jones, Rae Carruth, Matt Jones, Mike Vick, etc. zingers out of strings you’re involved in going forward.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:28 PM CST up reply actions
They knew when they drafted him he was going to be a DE, everyone knew that so i dont follow
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah they drafted Dorsey
Cause Herm/Carl drafted Dorsey to play 3tech in their cover 2 base 4-3 system..
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
if you want a truely dominant run game
o-line is where you start.
First you get the Khakis, then you get a job, then you get the women.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
good Oline helps the pass game, too
I want a good Oline out of this year’s dradft/FA, but maybe that’s just me
Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback
by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 12, 2012 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
most people are saying he will go in the 4th along with Kellen Moore
by Bigcherokeechief on Jan 12, 2012 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
who are these most people you speak of?
And 4th round is the absolute earliest Moore will get picked. Much more likely in the 6th or later than 4th.
So this isn't really most people saying it...
It’s just your opinion. That’s fine, but probably better to clear that up.
No I've seen several mock drafts..
by Bigcherokeechief on Jan 12, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
I'm looking at it...
And trying to see where they list their: “internal staff of talent evaluators.”
I typically like to at least have people put their name on something.
Foles, from what I have seen, is the 3rd QB getting drafted. Maybe 4th, if Tannehill can jump him.
No I've seen several mock drafts..
by Bigcherokeechief on Jan 12, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Well then.
Bet you $100 he doesn’t go before the 6th.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
OK Mitt
If it wasn’t for the accursed paycheck, would I really imprison myself in this dungeon of the human soul?
by electriclight on Jan 12, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
Oh for god sakes
I don’t know much, but I am 100% certain Kellen Moore, a 6 foot left handed QB from the WAC or wherever the hell he plays will be selling cars in 3 years.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Hey, I just said he will get pick around the 4th
I think you could say that for all but about 3 of the QB in this draft.
by Bigcherokeechief on Jan 12, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
5'11 190 lbs left handed QB?
Yikes
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Jan 12, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
I still want to see stanzi
Before we throw the draft for one player. He looked good in preseason. Maybe he is our QBOTF
by Bilk on Jan 12, 2012 10:14 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Id rather go into the season with Ortan#1 stanzi #2 and Foles #3
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Yes
Chiefs need to draft a QB, even if it’s not in the first round. At least it would give them two potential options for the future between Stanzi and the draft pick. Foles, Tannehill, Weeden, I’d take any of those guys.
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Not to point out the obvious, but it depends where they fall
Pioli has been pretty good with his mid-range picks in the last two years. If a QB with upside happens to fall far enough, than I could see him taking one. I don’t think we’ll see a QB before the 4th pick though (nor would I want one before then, considering the players Pioli has been able to find).
Yes, please.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
I like him, Martin and Reiff at their current position.
In my opinion they need a T and a G, so whichever one they can get help at in FA, I’d go with the other in the draft.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:34 AM CST up reply actions
AGREED
Max: Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
I'd rather get our OG or OC in FA
And get our OT in the 1st, personally. OT harder position to fill, will give us more flexibility.
Probably true.
Anyone got a list of FA G’s and T’s?
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Chiefs Playoff Wins By QB:
Dawson-5
Montana-2
DeBerg-1
EVERYONE ELSE-Nada, Zero and Zilch!
It’s all good! We can continue to reinvent the wheel! <—sarcasm!
P.S. T.J. Yates-1 Matt Cassel-0
Thanks!
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:17 AM CST reply actions
Trent Green would have been on that list
if the Chiefs actually fielded a defense that was actually NFL worthy those years.
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
IF...
my aunt had a penis, she’d be my uncle!
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Or well.. you would have two uncle's
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
There's probably a trendy sitcom in there, somewhere.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
2 and half men?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
Or if he would have completed a couple of passes late in the game.
couldawouldashoulda.
Not entirely true
Everyone harps on how bad the 2003 defense was, it was actually middle of the pack in points allowed.
We just got into a slugfest with the wrong team in the playoffs.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
More like the Indy Defense at least threw outaSpeed Bump.
While the KC Defense was nothing more than Bugs On A Windshield.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Difference in that game was one turnover.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
If we could have stopped one TD drive, just one.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
And then the Patriots completely shredded the Colts
2003 was nothing but false hope.
by old_school on Jan 12, 2012 11:44 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
True but,
I think a lot of that was only due to the fact our offense was on the field a LOT, and the other team usually fell behind and had to pass so much. Our weak defense only had to worry about pass defense in the second half. They were really pretty atrocious.
Tim Tebow-1
That makes this even more depressing.
Man that just sounds horrible...
but it does support Pioli’s viewpoint, that you must build a team through the draft and not to throw multiple draft picks at one player. T.J. was a fifth rounder if I am not mistaken and he absolutely is not better than Cassell, Orton, or probably even Stanzi. The “team” just isn’t where it needs to be just yet.
by Alex Pointer on Jan 12, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Yates won a playoff game .. As a rookie .
Cassel folded and got pooped on by the ravens
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:27 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
TJ Yates is terrible
No one is saying Cassel is great, but Texans Superbowl dreams went down with Schaub.
They have a Superbowl ready team and Yates’ job is to not completely screw it up.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
I know Yates isn't good .
But he won a playoff game . If he sucks an could win with what he has around him . Why can’t cassel " who is average" win games “that matter , like playoff” with what he has around him . Cassel needs to be replaced . We can have the BEST online and defense next year and go 8-8. And what happens if cassel loses his lock on target Bowe ? Then we will be 5-6 wins at best
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:34 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Don't you...
HAVE to win a playoff game to get to the SB?
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Is that a trick question?
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
I would like a bye right past the AFCCG and into the super bowl, please
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Marty, is that you?
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Mims the word.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Greatest OT to never play in Chiefs History
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
How did the Texans get a "Superbowl ready team"
that they could plug Yates into? Certainly not by trading multiple picks for a 1st round draft pick…
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:02 PM CST up reply actions
You think the Texans even get to the playoffs if Yates is starting all season?
Because I don’t.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
mobil rec
Houston won’t sniff the Super Bowl anyway, so it does no good to think Yates winning a playoff game really matters when talking about being the best.
by old_school on Jan 12, 2012 11:48 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
But Montana came in and won with the basically the same non-winning team we had before and after his time.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
PLUS MARCUS ALLEN
Max: Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
The Chiefs won before Montana showed up.
It was after he left that was the problem.
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
No, talking playoff wins.
Loooong subthread, but going back up to JDK’s post. Dawson = 5 wins, Montana = 2 wins, Deberg = 1 win.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Last 3 Playoff Wins:
“L.A.” Raiders
Pittsburgh Steelers
Houston Oilers
Oh Well…what’s another 42 years between Superbowls!
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
another 42 years is a whole lot of dead fans
by Alex Pointer on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I'll be gone or close to it by then.
Seeing the Chiefs win the Super Bowl might give me a heart attack.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
LOL
Max: Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
Pioli is just looking out for your health.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Seems like it, eh?
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
No, but I was trying to be witty.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Wasn't TJ Yates a 5th round draft pick?
just sayin, cue Stanzi
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:34 AM CST up reply actions
Why isn't he out there playing?
Conspiracy or what?
Pioli is too pussy to drop Matt Cassel
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
Considering it's what almost the entire fanbase wants
I would say it takes a lot more balls to stick with him.
Rule #1
Never admit you made a mistake. Polish Turd to glossy shine and continue selling it to potential buyers
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
Pioli knows how the fans feel about Cassel
He knows how unpopular he is, there is no shining him up to this fanbase. It is riskier, imo to stick with Cassel.
mistakes like Magee
we need to get rid of that dead weight that Pioli keeps showing off to prove he is never wrong in the draft
we traded magee for a pick i think a 4th or 5th rd pick
sent him to tampa i brlieve
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Jan 12, 2012 2:53 PM CST up reply actions
BECAUSE...
Belichick didn’t TELL him to!
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
He was also third string, just like Stanzi.
Only difference is that our second-stringer didn’t get hurt.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
No.
Only difference was that they didn’t have Haley coaching Palko on the roster.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
OK, two only differences.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm pretty confident Stanzi will be our starting QB by '14, if not sooner
And I think he’ll be better than anyone else on the roster.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I'm down with that..
except ’13 sounds better.
Max: Two days ago, I saw a vehicle that would haul that tanker. You want to get out of here? You talk to me.
So are you betting that he'll be another out-of-nowhere like Brady? Or that our roster won't have any talented QBs?
Odds are a lot better with the second option, but that would make you a horrible pessimist.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I think Stanzi will end up being a significantly better pro QB than Cassel (and Orton)
I’m just basing this on the limited film I’ve seen from him at Iowa (not just highlights). He’s able to throw the ball well to all levels of the field, seems to have good vision, and has a quick release. He makes poor decisions at times, but he improved in that area as a senior.
I think if you put him on a talented roster with a good running game & receivers, he should be a top-10 NFL QB after a year or so of starting.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
by jmcgoblue on Jan 12, 2012 12:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, I think his potential is extremely comparable to Orton's.
Both throw a good ball, and both have struggled with making risky decisions. I also think Orton would do very well on the kind of playoff team you’re describing.
Just realize how much he’d be bucking the odds to have been passed over by 32 teams and then become a top ten QB in his third or fourth year.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Psht
when’s the last time a team won the superbowl with a good QB
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:20 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Eli, Brad Johnson, Dilfer
Eli has some “elite” arguments and Johnson/Dilfer had terrific defenses. Outside of that, you’re going back to the early 90s.
by Joel Thorman on Jan 12, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Eli is very good.
He makes good throws. And I still remember the time he threw a TD pass against us right after injuring his foot.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Fine with it.
Build for the future, don’t gamble with your draft picks. Trading up for a QB reeks of desperation and leaves the cupboard bare in season’s to come. Hold your ground; if anything trade back. I don’t believe many other teams can offer Orton a chance at starting. Re-sign Kyle, pick up another arm in the late rounds(Cousins), and go into the season with 4 QB’s competing. In the meantime keep building that offensive line so when we DO find our franchise QB there will be nothing limiting his success.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:23 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Sigh.
Such a chicken shit take.
Why gamble on winning a superbowl when you can take the safe route and be a perenial 7 to 9 win team?
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Its been what 50 years or more since we have seen the SuperBowl
Time to pull some triggers.
Yes, kill the other teams!
mwahahahaha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
Paying king's ransom
for QB worked so well for the Raiders. And oh, moving up for Sanchez looks like a great move by the Jets only 3 season’s later. It’s like pussy, Craig, something we all know you know nothing about. You let it come your way and capitalize on the opportunities that present themselves. You don’t go sniffing around making desperate moves that can come around and bite you in the ass later
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Seems Like the safe thing to do
It’s the best way to continue our average mediocrity teams
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Nobody is talking about giving up
Perfectly content being perennial playoff contenders and division champs. We were a blocked field goal away this season and I, for one, am convinced if we had Orton behind center all season we would have been a drastically more effective offense. Trading up? Overrated.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions
So let's be content with winning a weakish division then getting bounced out of the playoffs?
Yay!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
But
wasn’t the Baltimore game so fun to watch?
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only the first half
I was there. The 2nd half sucked
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
Everyone is crowning RG3
as our savior. Dude came from Baylor! What an NFL talent powerhouse. Let’s review their 1st round selections that school has yielded last couple of years: Jason Smith & Danny Watkins. Both of which have benched at some point for not being NFL ready. I’m not saying RG3 has talent, that he does and then some. But throwing ourselves at the next prospect off the board doesn’t strike me as a move Pioli or Hunt would make. I don’t blame them as I wouldn’t either
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:45 AM CST up reply actions
*doesn't have talent
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
So let's compare different positions to twist things around to fit your own ideas?
How about you go back and watch the last 2 years of his games, then have an opinion on him.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
So you're telling me
the program he came out of has no bearing on his preparedness for the NFL? Not to mention the conference he was playing in, because as we all know the Big 12 defense’s are sooo tough. I’m not a scout and I certainly don’t pretend to be one, unlike many here who think Mock Drafts and Saturday’s spent in front of a TV qualify them as analysts.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Didn't say that but if you watch his mechanics and the throws he makes
You would know he is a legit prospect
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
Until one of us is paid
to make those opinions, we don’t “know” shit
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
If it is an opinion we still don't ''know''
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
My issue isn't with RGIII
It’s for Pioli to say 4 months before the draft that he wouldn’t trade multiple picks to go get a QB. I don’t care if RGIII was the player or a hypothetical guy. They fact that Pioli doesn’t realize the QB’s on his roster aren’t good enough to win a SB is disconcerting, as is his reluctance to do whatever it takes to get a franchise QB which should be the #1 goal of every GM
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
What else is he supposed to say though?
‘’Yeah we are going to trade with St. Louis and get our QBotF’’ which just raises the price of that pick through the roof
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
He could not say that he wasn't going to.
Hell when did he start giving actual answers? Give a canned answer “We will look at doing anything to improve the ball club”
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Or he could say we LIKELY won't and then sneak in a trade
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
Pioli
isn’t a stupid man. I’m sure he knows you need a franchise QB to win this league, but by reacting desperately for one it’s not going make obtaining one any easier
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
T-Jax...
Approves of your Approval!
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:59 AM CST up reply actions
He didn't say he wouldn't trade muliple picks.
He said he wouldn’t trade multiple number one picks.
There is a very distinct difference.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I agree
RGIII I think can eventually become a great talent, for now he’s gotta ride the pine to learn a pro-style system.
The potential awards are immense though, he’s got the skillset and the intangibles to be the best ever. Plus he’s a really cool guy with cool socks, I don’t know if that’s worth trading the farm for but it could be.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 12, 2012 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
So THAT'S why Herm likes him!
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Rg3>>>>>>>>>>Herm
Superman trumps whatever he’s got
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Jan 12, 2012 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
I am disappointed.
I thought Superman wore RG3 socks.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
That picture just knocked me off of the RG3 bandwagon
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
yeah, lets mock the Jets who have been to the AFC title game the last two years
And we haven’t won a playoff game since ’94.
Mocking the Jets
child please, shit write’s itself. I would far rather be in KC’s position than NY’s. With the loudmouth and big-bellied Coach. If you’re not first, you’re last.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM CST up reply actions
You're still using Child Please, huh?
I would far rather have been a game away from the SB the last two years.
Far more PC than what I typically say
Jets haven’t cared about the future, they’ve cared about the present. This lack of foresight is coming around to bite them in the ass. They’re unraveling as we speak. Can you imagine Stanzi speaking up about the KC locker room saying it’s cancerous? The 3rd string QB? That’s a couple positions on the roster away from placeholder & long snapper. And when those guys begin opening their mouths it speaks volumes
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying the Jets don't have issues
I’m saying they have been far more successful recently than we have, and as Chiefs fans, I hardly think we should walk around thinking we’re superior to them.
I'll say it
We’re a better team than NY. We’ve got more talent and if we didn’t have Noodle-arm Palko starting we would have beaten them.
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 11:20 AM CST up reply actions
so...
If we are such a far better team then why not pull the trigger on a qb, this franchise needs to win games and since we have a better team and better base then we need a qb who will actually carry this franchise to the promised land… If you always play it safe your team will always be mediocre, you have to take a chance sometime…
by kcchiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:53 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm of the opinion you are what your record says you are
And our schedules were almost identical. We did have noodle arm Palko starting, and if we had a franchise QB, that would’ve been less likely to happen.
They were 8-8, we were 7-9, they beat us, they’re better.
Next year, hopefully not.
I'm cautiously optimistic about next year.
Here’s a question for you… do you view either Orton or Cassel as having a “Trent Green” ceiling?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Ceiling? For a single season, yeah.
Consistently, probably not.
We also may overrate Trent looking back at him. I am/was a fan, but he was never an elite QB. The surrounding talent on that O was incredible.
And I’m not all that excited about the possibility of having a ‘Trent Green ceiling’ QB. It wouldn’t be that bad, but it needs to be surrounded by a phenomenal D and a very good supporting O to win a Championship.
I think it is wrong to view either Orton or Cassel as having a particular ‘ceiling’ because I think we have almost assuredly seen both of their ceilings.
BTW, I’m also optimistic about next season. I think if we bring back everyone that is IR’d and have a smart FA and draft, we’ll be the favorite for the AFCW. I also think wit that same team, our chances of getting to a SB are practically zero.
Trent had a lot of help to be sure
But our skill postions are deeper and more talented now. Might that balance out (if we improve our line with DeCastro and a RT) and allow us to have a very, very good offense?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Trent had a better O-line.
A great O-line. What game did we have 8 rushing TD’s or something? Four from Priest and four from Blaylock i think. That’s just silly.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:30 PM CST up reply actions
A MUCH better O-line
That’s why ideally we address LG and RT in the draft this year.
Albert and Asamoah are good linemen, and Hudson looked ready to contribute when he got in there for Lilja (much like Asamoah did his rookie year).
Now, even if we go DeCastro and take a RT in the 2nd, we still won’t have as good a line as we did then. That line was the best of all time.
BUT, we’ve got more talented skill players than that team did, and more of them. So I’m hoping that it’d balance out.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I'm still in the camp that if we're going OL in round one
I’d rather take an OT. I would prefer to find the best OG/OC in FA we can. Hudson filling the other spot. Nicks, Grubbs, Meyers © Hou all would fill in nicely.
Taking a OT round one will provide us more flexibilty. If he wins the LT spot immeadiately (i find that unlikely) then we move Albert. If not, he plays RT, and if he can become a LT, that gives us more flexibility. Hudson will already gives us an adv. being able to play multiple positions.
People like to say, ‘you can find a RT after round 1’ well you can certainly find an interior lineman after round 1, and this year, we should do so in FA.
The problem with going T in the first
Is that we’ll likely get the 3rd or even 4th best tackle.
Whereas DeCastro’s considered a once-every-ten-years- prospect at G.
That, and our issues with power up the middle, make me lean more towards DeCastro than whoever falls to us as a T.
I agree with the logic, though, and if we were picking a little sooner I’d say sure.
Maybe Pioli stuns us all by grabbing Nicks or Grubbs for G and makes the whole DeCastro thing moot, or snags Bell to play tackle.
Any of those signings would make my day.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I think we may end up getting the 2nd best OT
And quite likely we get one of the top 3. Most think there is a dropoff after the top 3, and who knows how Pioli and Co. have the top 3 slotted? Their #1 guy could be there?
If the top 3 are gone, then yes, they should look elsewhere and hope to grab one in round 2 or 3.
I think DeCastro is a great prospect, I would just prefer to fill that hole in FA, as opposed to in the 1st round.
Grubbs or Nicks would be phenomenal
After them, the dropoff at guard is rather substantial.
I’m still not sure how bad Lilja is or whether he’s been hurt by Weigmann going from “older” to “ancient” this season and losing what little power he had.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
It's not what I would do, but gun to my head guess is Lilja will start
If I had to guess what will happen, we will draft an OG/OC in the middle rounds 2-5, and will give Lilja one more year, while Hudson goes to C.
The plan will be for the rookie to start in ‘13, just as they’ve done before.
I hope I’m wrong and we spend the necessary money to bring in Nicks or Grubbs…but I don’t think it will happen.
Lilja probably isn’t quite as bad as he looked this year, but I still would prefer him replaced immediately, and if he was on the team, would be as a backup at both G positions…although I don’t think they would keep a $2 mil backup interior lineman.
Hmm...
We could have a very good offense, yes. A top 10 offense…possibly. I don’t think a Championship offense unless our defense was tremendous.
I don’t think even with those additions Cassel or Orton are going to win playoff games unless their running game and defense are elite.
The Texans are a terrific test case this season. They have one of the best D’s in the NFL (#4), a great running game (#2), an ELITE WR, and now a subpar QB. Really, before Schaub got hurt, they were still considered the 3rd or 4th best team in the conference, and while that is still the case, the margin has grown. However, if you swapped Yates and one of the top 6 or 8 QB’s in the league, that team is instantly a SB contender and possibly the favorite.
Picture your ‘plan’ for the Chiefs, and tell me if we are likely to build a better team (leave the QB out) than what Houston has right now…it’s hard to imagine. So it’s also hard to imagine us as a legit SB contender without an elite QB.
I like our team as much as Houston's, honestly
Taking out QB, I see us as matching up pretty well against them.
Of course, that’s providing Berry, Moeaki, and JC come back healthy.
I view us as in much the same boat as Houston is in now, plus multiple other injuries.
You reference Yates being subpar, and he is. However, that’s why I ask if Orton or Cassel is good enough to be good on a decent team.
I view either of them as better than Yates
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I like our team a lot...
But I have hard time picturing us #4 in total defense next year and #2 in the running game.
I agree Cassel and Orton are better than Yates, but they aren’t better than Schaub, and as I said, with Schaub, Houston was considered the 3rd or 4th best team in the AFC. That is my point.
NOW, if you swap Yates right now with Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Big Ben…that team is instantly the favorite to win the SB.
I agree completely about them being contenders with an elite QB
However, I CAN see us having a top 5 D next year.
Given Houston’s rapid development, Lewis’s improvement as a ball hawk, and the return of Berry, I can see it happening.
If Powe turns out to be a decent NT, or if Pioli goes out and gets a good NT? I’d put money on it.
That’s provided we keep Carr. Losing him sets us back somewhat.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Powe is bit of an AP fantasy.
He falls in the Mims category. Hope he works out, but he is more likely to be cut next year than be a star.
There are a ton of ifs to get to #5. Man, I hope we can, but as I said, even if that happens, and even if we somehow have the #2 running game in the NFL (again, my Hou example)…we’re still not Championship contenders with our QB. That was the point I was trying to make.
You basically have to have the #1 D in the NFL and a great running game to win a Championship with avg to below avg QB play…which is why I want to keep looking for an upgrade.
Fair enough - he's a fan favorite
and gets a lot of bonus love for being an underdog.
Moreover I think a lot of us pull for him as well because we’re hoping for that big “holy shit can you believe we got this guy in the 6th round” sense of delight.
Agreed on your other points – and I am all for a new solution at QB.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly my point.
AP had convinced itself the guy was a 2nd or 3rd round pick…I never quite understood that pre-draft last year. It was a couple posters, and then it spread like a wildfire.
It's because the year before that, he actually was projected that high by the "experts."
Then he decided to go back to school, had a drop-off for whatever reason (many cite a scheme change), and…..we got him in the sixth round.
Also, if you look at last year’s draft, nearly all (maybe literally all) of the pure NT types slid to the sixth round or later. Looked like an NFL-wide philosophy shift.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I put Powe in a different category than Mims
Powe performed well in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd teamers, while Mims was getting beat as often as not.
Powe also saw some game action and, while it was VERY limited, he looked fine out there, not like some over-his-head scrub.
There’s also a perfectly logical explanation for Powe sitting his rookie year, with the number of DL we already had active every week and the lack of need for a 2nd pure NT. Whereas with Mims… he just couldn’t cut it over terrible players.
Two very different situations (although I admit it’s unlikely Powe pans out. Just a lot more likely than Mims).
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I agree Powe is more likely than Mims to pan out
And pretty much everything else you said. I do think they both fall into the category of getting talked about a ton here, and then getting immediately vastly overrated by AP.
That all makes sense
It’s obviously a much more well-travelled path to contender-ship (that can’t possibly be a word) to have an elite QB.
I’m curious how Houston would look right now with an average to above average QB, though. Like a Flacco.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I think you and I disagreed on this the other day.
Flacco and Schaub are both better than what we have…so I’m not sure it’s an accurate comparison still with Houston.
Again, when they had Schaub, most still considered them as at best a fringe SB contender.
Trent Green ran the highest scoring offense in the league at one time...
he was the leader….had a good line, great run game, and below average recievers…..if he had a defense, he had as good a shot as anybody to win a Super Bowl…he matched Peyton Manning score for score in that playoff game where there was no punts…basically, because of bad defense and the ONE hiccup on offense(Holmes fumble), Chiefs lost that game
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
One area where we're not as strong as Houston is D-line though...
T-Jax has developed into a good player, but Watts is an absolute stud.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Watt is a stud, and is also in the perfect scheme for his skill set.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
That just doesn't make any sense...
You could be 2nd, 3rd, 4th, even 5th
by Denver_ChiefsFan on Jan 12, 2012 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair, that Sanchez pick is looking worse and worse as time goes on
And may well have set their team back quite a ways…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
It's like Mutiny on the Bounty up there
or like something straight out of High School.
and you’re right, it’s looking like Sanchez is shaping up to be just another USC “shoulda-been”.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, bad move on their part
But I can understand the desire to get a franchise QB, and they WERE a QB away from being competitive (much like us).
It’s a good cautionary tale about trading up for a guy who isn’t a sure thing though. So the question is… is RG3 more of a sure thing or a boom/bust guy?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
One knock on Sanchez was his immaturity.
I see a lot of Berry-like intangibles in Griffin. I think that’ll help him adjust.
One reason I think Cam surprised so many people (including me) is that he is actually a lot smarter than people give him credit for. Fans look at that Gruden interview where he admitted he didn’t call “verbal” plays at Auburn and assumed he was a dumb jock.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I agree with all of that
I like draft picks whpo graduated with Honors. Shows a certain amount of maturity and commitment to hard work.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
heres my only problem with it
name me 1 team thats ever given up the farm to move up and grab a player and that guy led them to a SB win, I cant think of any, and Im betting its going to take probably 5+ draft picks to move up to get RG3, cause we all know that Washington isnt afraid to go overboard if they want a guy bad enough
Atlanta with Julio Jones just last season
oh wait
LOL that didn’t work out so good
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
Jones wasn't awful
Plus he’s rookie , kinda early to tell . And he’s not a QB . QB tends to be a Bit more important
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 10:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yes, but the dirty birds sold out their future
on the thought that he would make the difference. However the difference is matty ice melts in playoff situations.
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
How so? Were they not just in a playoff game? I didn't see the Chiefs in any playoff game this year.
So it's a good idea if it makes them better than the Chiefs?
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Didn't say that. I am saying that nobody knows whether they sold out their future or not.
The future is not here yet, and they were just in a playoff game. They took a chance, we don’t take any chances on a quarterback.
They were in a playoff game before they got Julio.
And they actually scored points in last year’s playoff game.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Right about what?
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
No one is saying to give up the farm
Atlanta moved like 21 spots, we’d be moving up 9.
Kind of like NYG moving up 4 to get Eli.
by craig in calgary on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
yes
but we would also be trying to move up to get a player that like 4 other teams may be interested in too, no other team was wanting Jones that bad that they were going to battle with Atlanta to move up and take him
Atlanta had more pieces in place than we do.
How many Super Bowls have they won since getting a Franchise QB. They still need afew additions. Gotta keep the fresh talent comming. I would love to be bold and get our QBoF with a trade or a Draft Choice when opportunity is realistic. Multiple High Picks is a lot to give up. Too much if you lack a lot of pieces to begin with.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
More places in piece? Take a quick glance at who their left tackle was.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Eli
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Jan 12, 2012 11:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
they didnt give up the amount of picks
it will take us to move up to grab RG3, they swapped players + 2 picks, and the if I remember correctly the 2 teams picking between them already had their qb’s unlike our situation where we have what like 3 or 4 teams just ahead of us that also would like to draft him, Im calling it now it will take 5+ draft picks for someone to move up and grab RG3
Or the right player(s) in trade instead of picks.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
if we
can pull off a trade with Bowe and/or Dorsey and 2 picks to get RG3 I would be all for it, I just dont see it happening
"Responsible?"
Sounds to me like playing it safe. If you draft a QB prospect with long term potential, how is that being irresponsible? And if it doesn’t pan out, at least it shows you tried.
To me, we’re just playing it safe for now and I understand how that will help build a strong foundation but at some point you need to make that move at the most important position on the field!!! It’s a risk no matter when you make that move unless you trade up big for a guy like Peyton Manning who has 3-5 (maybe) great years left in him…and that’s not long term nor responsible to me.
it's irresponsible because you could have upgraded 2-3 positions
significantly instead of whiffing and setting your team back 2-4 years
by RamX21 on Jan 12, 2012 10:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
You could have TRIED to upgrade 2-3 other positions.
Those draft picks have significant failure potential, too.
You’re not trading a sure thing for a high risk, you’re just trading one risk for another risk.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
nope
a guy like decastro is a sure thing, a flash in the pan like RG3 isn’t. Come on now, stop giving me all this cliche “any player can be a bust” stuff. Truth is failing on a QB is more detrimental than any other position
True
But when is drafting a QB ever not a risk? When is it ever a sure thing? That’s the point I was making.
I pointed out that I understand you want to build a strong foundation as I agree time and time again that a strong O line is invaluable. If you have a strong foundation in place, you’re better suited for drafting a QB with strong potential.
So what is the plan around the QB role for the Chiefs? RG3 has the potential to be a playmaker with a strong arm and athletic abilities. It would be nice to see a Chief QB with a solid arm and mobility in the pocket.
Overall, I agree that I wouldn’t want to sacrifice potential picks for a bust, I just don’t know when it won’t be a potential risk anyway.
It's a cliche becasue it's true.
Any prospect CAN bust. That’s why they’re called prospects. Even DeCastro has holes in his game, in college, playing for a dominating offense with the best QB in years behind him.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Bingo
If this team doesn’t improve in the trenches, it’s not really going to matter who is QB.
Unless that QB is Rodgers.
GB’s line is in terrible shape, and has not been good since Rodgers has been there.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
WELL HERE IS TO HOPING THAT THIS IS AS UNLIKELY AS PICKING A SAFETY #5 OVERALL!!!
For constantly playing Palko, Haley needs to be fired
by ArrowheadHunter on Jan 12, 2012 10:33 AM CST reply actions
In my opinion these are apples and oranges.
I don’t doubt that Pioli had reservations about picking a safety in the top-5. I think he overcame those because he saw Berry as being that good of a prospect. The same could be said for this situation in that I think he would seriously consider trading up if he was that high on a prospect.
The only problem is, the Berry situation was a question of positional value. This scenario is a question of DRAFT PICK value. And we all know how much Pioli values picks. I just can’t see a trade up happening here. More likely a trade down.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
What's the community consensus
on Tannehill? Read a lot of mention of him and other site’s but none here. He’s projected to go around where we’re picking…
#82 - Pay The Man & Play The Man
by KansasCityShuffle on Jan 12, 2012 10:34 AM CST reply actions
Not worth a 1st round pick at all
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jan 12, 2012 10:37 AM CST up reply actions
but Pioli didn't have to give up a kings ransom to get that Safety
he was the best player there when we picked. 2 completely different scenarios.
by RamX21 on Jan 12, 2012 10:40 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Dont want to trade up for RG3
Think of all the traffic and mess to clean after all the championship parades
If Pioli cant detach himself from his BFF Cassel...
both of them will be headed to the Saskatchewan Roughriders
Pioli is well known for playing
his cards close to the vest. His history has been to keep/obtain as many draft picks as possible. Pioli may not be willing to admit (as yet) that Matt Cassel is merely mediocre. I think our draft this season may net us some good players, but I am guessing a future quarterback is not one of them unless Pioli can score a coup such as drafting Tom Brady in the late, late rounds.
"The Hammer"
I think Pioli is a better scout than any of us
and can see that Cassel is mediocre.
by bossmanham on Jan 12, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This.
When Pioli dealt for Cassel, it was a pretty darn good move (and he was far from the only person trying to do so). After three years as a starter, I’m sure he can see Cassel’s weaknesses and strengths even better than any of us. To think he isn’t doing what he can to improve the QB position is just silly.
Agreed.
People forget how sought after Cassel was back then. He was the primo FA QB at the time.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And he had way more credentials than this Matt Flynn character that some are clamoring for
Pioli made a solid move to get what many thought could be a Franchise QB. It isn’t quite working out that way, and other plans need to be (and certainly are being) made.
Very true, but I'm sure Pioli also sees his strengths.
Which many here like to ignore.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:42 AM CST up reply actions
Well...
I’d say not turning the ball over (though he got worse at that in his shortened season this year), not taking sacks, being a leader and hard worker, etc. I’m not arguing this one way or the other, just saying that people like to look at Cassel like he’s Palko with a bad attitude and that’s just not reality.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
How so?
He was pretty darn good at the first two last year. And for all his faults, he does come off to me as a good leader.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
The only way you can say that "not taking sacks" is a strength
is if the QB was able to quickly read the blitz, find the open receiver, and get the ball to that receiver in very little time before the blitz got to him, ala Peyton Manning.
Maybe you can justify saying that if Cassel avoids pressure, moves around in the pocket or out of the pocket when necessary to extend the play, ala Big Ben.
Cassel does neither of those well at all, in any way shape or form. “Avoiding a negative play” isn’t a strength, its a sugar-coated way of saying “well, at he didn’t throw an interception when he started to panic”
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 12, 2012 1:15 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
An incomplete pass is better than a sack.
If you can’t see that I don’t know what to tell you.
This is such BS.
After 18 years of Bonos and Grbacs and Cassels, any Chiefs fan should realize that an elite quarterback wins championships. How these GMs can keep pulling the wool over the eyes of the fans is a mystery to me.
The NFL is a conservative institution where risk-taking is rarely rewarded. It’s not about building long-term championship teams for Scott Pioli, it is about long-term job security for Scott Pioli. And the surest route to that is to do all the right things, even if it means this city never sees the Superbowl again.
by Chief Farmer on Jan 12, 2012 10:48 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
sorry, should have scare-quoted "all the right things"
by Chief Farmer on Jan 12, 2012 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
I think it's been longer than 18 years that we've had mediocre QBs.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Twitter: #RGIII4KC
We should try and make that “Trend” for a month or so! That might give Ole’ Scotty Boy a nudge! :-)
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 12, 2012 10:48 AM CST reply actions
Yeah.
I’m sure Pioli is scouring Twitter for his draft strategy.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
But we better be careful
Other teams may be scouring twitter also to get an upper hand on our draft strategy too. In that case, #CasselistheBestandUpForTrade :)
I'm on it!
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
#dudethereisnowaywewouldtradecasselbecauseheissoawesome
#unlesssomeoneoffersusfourfirstroundraftpicks
#butwewouldbereallyreallysadaboutit
#honest
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Hey if it works
Someone give us a shove so we can fall whichever way that is.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Actually
It’s having a serviceable, if not solid, veteran, along with a stable of younger options to develop. See Drew Bledsoe (who could have won that 2001 Superbowl as well) and Tom Brady in 2000-2001. Brady was involved in all of 4 snaps or so his rookie season, but moved up the depth chart and was ready to step in his second.
I see the Chiefs doing pretty similar things right now.
by cheapham on Jan 12, 2012 11:11 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They won those first few SB's when he was merely good.
Even if he had never developed into one of the best QB’s of all-time, they would have still had a few SB rings on their hands.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
Well, they would have had at least one. I wouldn't go "a few." They've only won "a few" total.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Sorry didn't really feel like going back and looking those up.
But yeah, that’s my point.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
I think finishing 7-9 had something to do with
Us probably not picking a QB in this year’s draft. If we were in Minny’s position, I’m almost sure we would do it.
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Jan 12, 2012 10:55 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Starting the article with:
“Chiefs GM Indicates Trading Up For A QB” and having a picture of RG3 is messed up towards Chiefs fans JOEL. I got excited for about 2 seconds…then you punched me in the face with reality.
This is actually kind of inspirational:
“I didn’t come here to win one championship. I didn’t come here to get the quick fix, be done and move onto the next job. This is where our family is. This is where I want to spend the rest of my career.”
by Brad-KC on Jan 12, 2012 11:02 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
I'm sorry
I don’t hate Pioli in the slightest, but trying to take info from his interviews is a waste of time.
It’s just refreshing to hear someone call KC his home…where his family is…where he wants to spend the rest of his career. KC has always been a brief stopping point…for the Chiefs AND the Royals. Whenever someone is awesome…they typically move on.
Right on
Sometimes the overwhelming number of mind-numbing conspiracy theories about how evil and terrible Pioli and Hunt are make it hard to see the more reasoned assessments.
I loved the hire, and still want him here
I am not a fan of how he has handled the media. I am encouraged by the way Romeo has been thus far and hoping it is a sign of things changing.
I just have learned that Pioil interviews are essentially full of BS. If that makes me cynical, so be it.
Um... not until he's won a championship with his vaunted "process".
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
What?
You bring in your pick for GM and tell him win year one with your vaunted “process” or you’ll be nothing but a kicking post for me, mister! I don’t give a shit if you like our city and wanna live hear, even though our owner doesn’t! WTF have you won for me lately, bitch??? It’s been THREE YEARS!!
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
It would be nice to hear the same from Clark.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
fuck that noise
trading up to get a top end QB is not short sighted at all. that’s the most long range decision one can make. The Giants have a SB ring because they were bold in the draft and went after a QB. From now on any GM who passes on great QB prospects in the first should be fired.
Hence Sanchez
Jets traded several picks and a player to get Sanchez and look how that panned out.
That said, Sanchez never appealed to me the way that RG3 does. Their will always be top QB prospects in every draft but every once in a while some drafts provide more glamorous prospects than others.
Not every 1st round ANYTHING works out.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
But QB's are the most important...and expensive
You can have a 1st round OG bust and not effect your team as much as a 1st round QB bust.
Sure it does, if you used the same pick.
Opportunity cost. Instead of that OG or QB, you could have had a top corner or pass rusher or left tackle or…… A #11 pick is a #11 pick.
Now if you’re talking about the impact a QB has on a team’s play on the field vs an OG, then isn’t that actually an argument to solidify the QB spot before you fill in with an OG?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
you can't sit there and just hop
you have to make moves. you have to be aggressive. this team has been content with “meh” QBs since Dawson hung ’em up.
by SillyHatDay on Jan 12, 2012 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Picks are now slotted salary wise.
QB’s are no more expensive than kickers. All depends on where you pick them.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
exactly not to mention that putting all those resources into one player raises the pressure on that player and the coach. Thats where mistakes tend to get made because it starts becoming more important to play that investment than actually win games
Why would we hire Romeo if we were gonna take a young prospect ? a 3 year deal means a belief win winning now
by Willie Beamon on Jan 12, 2012 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
You're arguing that we think we're winning now, AND arguing that we're slowly building for the future?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Just look at all the talent in the background to validate trading up for a Heisman winner
Charlie Ward, Ron Dayne, Chris Weinke. Who wouldn’t want that caliber player on your re-building franchise
Yeah, that's why he's rated so high, because the Heismann's attached to him.
C’mon man.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Keep Orton then
No more cassel as starter please .
by chiefsman! on Jan 12, 2012 11:10 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Orton is the better qb, no question about it.
Bring em’ back!
You have to think about what you'd be giving up to move up this far
you’re talking; Eric Berry, Jon Baldwin, Rodney Hudson, Justin Houston, and possibly a Kendrick Lewis for a guy that could turn out to be Christian Ponder. Take away all those pieces from our team and add Ponder and where are we?
picks that turn into players
which if you have a meticulous scouting department, like we do, turn out to be solid football players
If our scouting department is that good, then the QB we move up for should be good.
As far as prospects given up, we’re also talking about Tjax, Magee, Washington, Brown…..
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
our scouting dept is that good
and seem to have decided that RG3 is not in fact worth the risk.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
That's probably true, the odds say so
But we hardly know that ‘our scouting dept seemed to have decided that RG3 is not worth the risk.’
Ok...
So, how do you or ottawa know this now?
i was only saying
we do have a good scouting dept and i belive them to be correct if they decide not to move up.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
You have a much better chance of being right
Only one team can move up to get him. There might be 6 teams that think he is worth equal (high) value to move up, but only one will get him.
Lol yeah, because they told you that.
Unless you work for them, you can’t say that till AFTER the draft.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Good scouting doesn't mean guaranteed success
No matter how good a player looks, he’s going to have to make a lot of improvement to do well in the pros.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Very true.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
too bad.
i would LOVE to get him. in fact, i might even take him over luck if the opportunity was there. however…pioli is using his head on this one. its too risky when you have so many other needs.
Just like novocaine. give it time; always works..
The greater the fall, the grander the ascention..
What we need to do is.......
Go after a current player in the league now. I saw a post recently talking about Chase Daniel. I think thats a decent idea or maybe Matt Flynn. Kyle Orton is not going to stay here. He will go to the Redskins, Dolphins ect. Also we need to use our picks for o-line,defensive backups and maybe later round qb and rb. Our defence was pretty good this season. Our offence wouldn’t have been too bad if the plays called wouldnt have gone through 3 guys every play. I hope they don’t just put cassell back in there cause orton showed all of us how a qb in the nfl should look.
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 12, 2012 11:26 AM CST reply actions
Orton
an unwanted commodity until 2012
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Jan 12, 2012 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
Please dont say Matt Flynn, havent we learned wiuth Cassel?? Product of the system
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Just because someone does well one place and not another...
doesn’t make them a “product of the system”. There’s many variables that go into these things.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:48 AM CST up reply actions
I know your absolutly right! But when it comes to these two guys, i can confidently say that.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
How can you confidently say that with Flynn?
We’ve barely seen him play in GB, let alone anywhere else.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Seriously... Chase Daniels is only on that roster to fill a back-up QB slot.
The idea that he could take over for Brees…. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
chase daniel.
lol
Just like novocaine. give it time; always works..
The greater the fall, the grander the ascention..
You feel better with Cassell? Daniel hasent even had a chance.
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 12, 2012 11:42 AM CST reply actions
He was pretty much mediocre at MU.
He’ll never be an elite QB. He may never be an above average QB.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
He was pretty good at MU.
But his confidence is kinda fragile, that’s what got him his senior year. And of course he’s definitely a spread system QB.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
That last part about Berry was going to be my comeback
I’m not buying that trading up for RGIII or trading picks for Manning is NOT out of the realm of possibility.
SMOKE!!
"The greater the struggle, the more glorious the triumph"
Eric Berry counted to infinity -- twice.
Twitter: @Mr_Hoosier
pioli wont trade up. what other choice do we have? basically what im saying is we need to go after a free agent qb. not another stanzi
Front office has already proven they wont play him.
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 12, 2012 11:47 AM CST reply actions
News flash: Sometimes Pioli lies to you.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Pioli/ Crennel and Orton all talked about Matts team and Orton was refereed to in past tense.. Those are eneough signs for me.
If cassel is here, Orton will not be
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
I misunderstood your original statement
I agree with you actually. My bust.
I don't know that Orton returning has that much to do with Cassel.
Probably has more to do with his demands and/or his desire to play in KC.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
has alot to do with it, Thier good friends, hes not going to take his friends job, he has been there before when its someone elses team, he wont do it agian.
especially when he can probably start and not compete for a another team.
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
How are they good friends?
Because they’ve been on the same team? I don’t see any evidence of this and if Pioli came to Orton (assuming he was interested in coming back) and said “you’re my starter next season, what’s it gonna take to get a deal done?”, I really don’t think Orton says, “Matt’s my friend, I can’t play here.”
And this is a much different situation than Denver. Odds are if Orton was brough back, Cassel would be gone. He wouldn’t be there with another QB like he was with Tebow.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
Somewhat unrelated question.
Has anyone out there in cyberspace re-worked the draft pick value chart? Because in my mind it’s not the same anymore with the picks being salary slotted.
Didn't Jimmy Johnson invent that in the first place?
Anyway, I think it was made up before the rookie salaries got totally out of hand. So it might actually be more accurate now than it was two years ago.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Good point.
Think teams were probably working off the chart because of that.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:56 AM CST up reply actions
The slotting has actually made high picks more valuable, though
because even if you take Ryan Leaf and he turns out to be, well, Ryan Leaf, at least you didn’t pay him $10M per year to find out…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
LIST OF 2012 FREE AGENT QBs
Richard Bartel – ARI®
Chris Redman ATL
Jake Delhomme – CLE
Kyle Orton – DEN
Brady Quinn – DEN
Shaun Hill – DET
Drew Stanton – DET
Matt Flynn – GB
Tyler Palko – KC®
Chad Henne – MIA
Brian Hoyer – NE®
Chase Daniel – NO®
Drew Brees – NO
Sage Rosenfels – NYG
Mark Brunell – NYJ
Kevin O’Connell – NYJ®
Kyle Boller – OAK
Jason Campbell – OAK
Charlie Batch – PIT
Byron Leftwich – PIT
Dennis Dixon – PIT
Charlie Whitehurst – SEA
David Carr – SF
A.J. Feeley – STL
Josh Johnson – TB
Vince Young – PHI
Rex Grossman – WAS
David Garrard
I wonder if anyone will take a stab at Chase Daniel
Brees isn’t going anywhere… and other than that this is a pretty uninspiring list.
Orton and Flynn should be the cream of the crop (or should I say cream of the crap).
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
Let's that Brees guy. Here he's pretty good.
Brian Hoyer is interesting, and probably interest Pioli. Hell, I’d take him over Cassel.
by CapsLockKey on Jan 12, 2012 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Best options besides Brees?
Orton, Flynn, Campbell. I wouldn’t even sniff the rest for a starting QB.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Click on the bold if you want it minimized
On that note, you wouldn’t want Drew Brees?
haha thanks for the pointer!!
Are you seriously thinking that Brees will be a FA? on that note we should smoke one up!
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 11:57 AM CST up reply actions
Please don't start this conversation.
It was beaten to a pulp in other threads.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
Seriously where? and who would beat this convo? its simple No way Brees will ever be a FA. sounds pretty simple to me
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
Yes i do, this happens all the time, but if you actually think they are going to let the 2nd best qb in the league walk.. your just crazy
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
If they win another Super Bowl... he's a Saint.
If not… it’s probably still 70/30 likely that he’s a Saint for the rest of his life. He’ll retire one.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
This does nothing to deter me from having hope that Pioli will do the right thing.
It was also said he’d never draft a safety 5th overall. He also shown that he would reach for a player if that’s who he wanted (Jackson). If Pioli wants Griffen, he’ll go after him, and the members of the media won’t see it coming.
Now the question is… is he going to stick by Cassel and does he want Griffen?
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
If we traded up for RG3
I would absolutely retain Cassel. I imagine Pioli would as well.
Well yeah.
but it would essentially put the final nail in the coffin for any long term commitment to Cassel.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
Again, theoretically...
If Cassel somehow improved, you could end up with a Brees/Rivers situation. Though I see your point.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:08 PM CST up reply actions
god we can only hope we have that problem, but i dont have to worry about it when cassel is one of the QBs
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
Yes and no.
I’m not sold on Cassel improving much, but it could still happen. My problem is hitching our entire cart to a horse that might keel over and die, without a backup horse waiting in the stables.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
He could end up being a decent QB. But I wouldn't expect anymore than that.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
I think you could already classify him as "decent", given the right circumstances... like a healthy super star RB...
But decent isn’t good enough. Not if we want to win it all.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
Didn't say it was.
And I guess it depends on how you classify “decent”. Point being I could see him improving a bit more, but never being great.
Or if Griffin busts.
I’m as big a fan of his as any other, but any prospect has bust potential.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Right, EVERY player has bust potential.
Nothing is guaranteed. That doesn’t mean Pioli needs to be a big pussy and never roll the dice… especially when we need a QB… and especially since rookie contracts aren’t near as damaging to teams if the player does bust as they were 2 years ago.
"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.
Yeah, I'd prefer that.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Am I the only one that thinks this makes sense?
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Jan 12, 2012 11:59 AM CST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Nope...
a lot of us have predicted this for a long time. Pioli merely confirmed what we’ve expected all along.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions
It makes perfect sense
I was just about to write the same.
But upthread people get called idiot and chicken s*it for thinking like this.
by Steve_in_RI on Jan 12, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
Look man, every team always has holes.
Look at GB’s offensive line. Look at GB’s, NE’s and NO’s defense. There’s just no such thing as a team that has all their needs filled.
By the way, speaking of NO’s defense, I remember you laughing at me at the start of the year for saying they wouldn’t be very good and depended on fumbles :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
You will learn
that I hold a grudge like a woman.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
NO thanks
If you cant trade up for Luck, RG3 is not worth it IMO…..I dont want a Mike Vick type…
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Well RG3 is not like vick type, he has accuracy and more of a pocket QB than Vick is..Watch is game and then comment
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
ill comment any time I want.
And I have seen his game….
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Vick might not be a perfect comparison.
But Griffin certainly has his faults that many here are choosing to ignore.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:09 PM CST up reply actions
By comparing him to Vick I mean...
he is not a classic pocket passer…..a big part of his game is his running ability..in the NFL where EVERYONE is bigger and faster, most young, running QBs, take off at the first sight of trouble….
Who was the last running QB to win a SB??
RG3 is a great player, dont get me wrong, i just would not want to trade a bunch of picks to move UP to get him….thats the main thing i was saying
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
yes....in COLLEGE
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
Where Tebow also had like a 66% comp rate
so certainly not a good gauge of if you’ll be able to complete passes in the NFL.
However I would say it’s a good indicator that passing was a focus for him, and that he was accomplished as a passer at that level.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
in college
in a spread offense
where receivers are always open
because big 12 defenses suck
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
look at Vick's college stats
They aren’t that similar as passers.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I understand but I
think he’s a pocket passer, and he should probably be more compared to Cam Newton. They have very similar skill sets, and with Newton being so successful this season I think its really a no brianer..
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Newton broke the record for most rushing TDs by a QB...
thats not a very good comparision….
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
yes he did, your right, but dont you think he did that by being able to throw down the field with accuracy?\
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
this is pointless...peace out
Clark Hunt and Scott Pioli need to IMPRESS me in 2012....No Settling this year Chiefs Fans!!
and if you saw them both in college - they couldn't be more different
Newton relied heavily on his legs and seemed very keen to run first and pass second.
I pegged Griffin as Newton 2.0 early in the season. Only after seeing several games by Griffin did I realize that I was completely wrong.
And oh yeah – Griffin was never kicked out of school for cheating, or stealing laptops, or mired in a scandal about his family taking money from the highest bidder to determine where he went to school.
Newton may be good but he’ll always carry a big turd-stain in my book because of those shenanigans.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
What the hell does his shenaanigans have to do with talent? When i compare Griffin and Newton
I look at the arm, accuracy, pocket presence and mobility all great comparisons, Cam could run all day in college but when he got to the NFL he showed he had a arm 2..what Cams father did or what he did during College means absolutely nothing..
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
If you don't think NFL recruiters consider everything involved then you're fooling yourself
You brought up the comparison to Newton – and I’m actually supporting your argument for Griffin. Pump the brakes there kimosabe.
At Auburn Newton completed 66% of his throws for less than 3k yards.
If you watched the combine last year he looked fucking terrible – missing WRs frequently with no pressure/defenders. There was much to be concerned about with his passing – especially coming from a college year where he ran for more than 50% of the yards he threw for.
If I were looking at Newton in college and in the combine – I saw a guy that ran more than he threw, was able to pass well enough in college (which even Tebow did) and doesn’t seem all that smart (where the shenanigans play in).
Looking at Griffin in college (no combine yet) – I see a guy that passes before he runs, is able to pass exceptionally well in college and seems incredibly smart.
Then we can consider that Newton played very well for a rookie this year. He still made stupid throws from time to time (even Peyton threw a ton of int’s his rookie year). But overall he looked solid – 60% comp and over 4000 yards. This might have something to do with why people are so high on Griffin. They believe he can come to the NFL and be as or more effective than Newton.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:07 PM CST up reply actions
When you put it that way,
I wouldn’t be surprised if Griffin craps out. The football gods act like a bunch of drunken assholes.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
They consider everything? well what pick did newton go? That stolen laptop really hurt him!
by Jeremy Daniel on Jan 12, 2012 1:18 PM CST up reply actions
And Justin Houstin slid to the 3rd round because?
Because he suddenly became less talented? Because teams wanted to give the Texans a shot at him so he could be Houston in Houston? Did he fart in the interview Step Brothers style?
Key word there is “consider” – I didn’t say they blindly reject anyone with off-field issues. And whether you believe it or not, you’re point/argument is indicating that you don’t think character is an issue that matters at all in these decisions – which I find hard to comprehend.
It obviously wasn’t a big enough factor for Carolina to pass him up. Or they simply determined that the potential reward far outweighed the risk. If you spoke to 31 other teams, I bet many had reservations about Newton because of issues like that. So far, Carolina’s decision appears to be correct.
Jeff Fisher went out and picked Adam Jones high in the draft a few years ago despite his character concerns. The guy was nothing but trouble for nearly his entire tenure in TN. He made some great plays on the field but was a complete retard off of it. Was the reward worth the risk there? In hindsight, no.
I know you think you scored a nice bullseye with that last point there, but all you’re doing is getting further from your original point – which (I think) was that Griffin is going to be an good QB in the NFL. And on that point I will agree with you.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
The original point still stands...
RG3 is a significantly better passer than Newton or Vick, and looks to pass first.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Cam Newton
Passed for over 4000 yards in his rookie debut, setting the NFL record for rookies. RG3 will not touch that, nor will Luck. Newton somehow gets a bad rap about throwing the ball, I didnt understand it when he came out of college and i dont now.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:38 PM CST up reply actions
Passed for over 4000 yards in his rookie debut, setting the NFL record for rookies.
In a year when 9 other guys passed for over 4000 yards, and at least two more would have had they not been hurt.
Breaking passing records now is like setting home run records in the steroids era.
That said, watch the college tape of Newton, then watch the tape of RG3. GR3’s a better passer at this point, and it’s not that close.
Now, will he adapt to the pro game as quickly as Newton did? Who knows. But that’s not the question. The question is who, coming out of college, is a better passer. And Luck/RG3 are both better passers than Newton.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I have.
That said, watch the college tape of Newton, then watch the tape of RG3
Cam Newton didn’t throw for 4000 by accident or because he suddenly developed into a passer.
He can/could throw the ball just as well as RG3 and Luck. Neither of which will throw for over 4000 yards next year.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Jan 12, 2012 4:53 PM CST up reply actions
I'll be honest, you're the first person I've seen
Who raves about Newton’s ability as a passer COMING OUT of college.
Every report I’ve seen has favored RG3 and Luck over him in that department, as has my own study of the 3.
But we can agree to disagree.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I think the problem here is
You’re using Newton’s NFL stats to try to compare to two players who have no NFL stats – so there is no acceptable basis for comparison there.
We can, however, compare the 3 passers in their last seasons in college – and from that standpoint, Luck and RG3 should be considered better passers.
Carolina’s running game took a big step back this year. Deangelo Williams was hurt and somewhat ineffective. Stewart was even worse. Newton picked up a lot of that slack and almost outrushed both of them.
Newton’s passing success was unexpected. If you ask anybody last year if Newton was going to throw for 4000+ yards this year the most common answer, other than the initial chuckle, would be no.
So sure, Luck and RG3 likely won’t go over 4k yards next year. But if Newton has taught us anything – it should be that we can’t really say what a guy will or won’t do when he gets to the NFL. If I’m basing my projection off of what the guys did in college and comparing it to what Newton did in college – then there’s no reason to say that they won’t/can’t.
by Ochophosphate on Jan 12, 2012 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for this
we can’t really say what a guy will or won’t do when he gets to the NFL. If I’m basing my projection off of what the guys did in college and comparing it to what Newton did in college
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Fail.
You simply cannot take college stats and accomplishments into account! Otherwise, that Orange Bowl Stanzi won would count for something!
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Look I am tired of this waiting for a qb crap!!! When the hell are we ever going to draft one!!? It’s time the fans take action! Let’s start a petition like we did to get rid of LJ! You rem that actually worked! Let’s start a petition and demand a qb for our team!! And send it to Pioli!! Tired of this crap! C’mon chiefs nation take action!!
by Chiefsallday25 on Jan 12, 2012 12:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Best 1st pick
Draft Reiff and move BRich over to guard.
OLine problems…solved.
Or just move Richardson to backup...
or release him. Either way, yeah beef up the O-line.
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
The question is this:
If you trade up for RG3, can you fill EVERY OTHER HOLE WE HAVE in FA?
LG, C, RT, TE, #2 RB, WR (if we lose Bowe), NT, ILB, CB (if we lose Carr), and FS?
And that’s assuming we re-sign guys on our current roster to be the depth players.
Give me a list, comprised totally of REALISTIC FA’s that the Chiefs can sign to get better.
Don’t worry, I’ll wait.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
by Falcon58 on Jan 12, 2012 12:08 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Isn't it funny that there's all these people advocating trading picks to move up for Griffin.
When there’s also just as many people (I’m not sure if they’re the same ones) complaining on other threads about the lack of depth on this team?
by polodude017 on Jan 12, 2012 12:11 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Exactly. You’ll be waiting a while. If the list of FA’s at each position is as awe-inspiring as that mess of QB’s that will be shopping their wares, we need our draft picks for some long-term prospects.
Go Chiefs!
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
by neiowakcfan on Jan 12, 2012 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
You are assuming that we'll give up EVERY draft pick we have this year if we trade up 9 spots?
C – Hudson
- RB can be an UDFA. Like Foster, Holmes, etc.
WR – big if
NT – we only carried one active.
ILB – Siler/Belcher are sufficient.
CB – big if
Guard, RT, TE and safety are all positions that can be easily filled in the third round or even later.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Damned formatting, shouldn't look that way.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm assuming that we'll give up at least...
Swapping 1st’s, a 2nd and maybe a 3rd along with next year’s 1st and possibly next year’s 2nd. Or maybe another 1st the following year. So at least 3 to 4 early picks.
I expect 1st to 3rd rounders to be starter quality. After that, sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t. I don’t know that Hudson is the answer at C. Sure RB’s can be found in the late rounds, I’ll go with that. NT? Maybe it’s Powe, maybe it’s not. Good NT’s go in the top of the draft. ILB, again maybe. The best TE’s go in the early rounds too. FS… again, sure possibly.
Guard and right tackle? Can they be filled in late rounds? Sure. Will that upgrade our line or keep us mediocre? Probably not.
Last but not least, WR and CB… needing to replace one of the two is not a big IF… it’s a big WHEN. Bowe has the option to go play for another team, possibly with a better QB and have a better career. Carr has the option to go get paid like a #1 CB. We’ll probably franchise tag one of them. Hopefully that means we signed the other. So then we pray we can re-sign the tagged player the next year and don’t have another big need. And there’s still the possibility of a holdout in all of that. They can’t be forced to sign a franchise tag.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, Bowe, Orton, McClain, Gordon(in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
Well, the early round thing is kinda my point.
The positions you point out as needing filled can be easily filled with our other picks.
Hudson performed very well at guard in sub this year. I don’t think you can dismiss him as a likely starter at either guard or center. And centers aren’t drafted any higher than guards.
NT, if we don’t believe in Powe (sheds a tear), then we’ll have to get a vet FA regardless what we do in the draft because no rookie short of Suh is gonna make an impact on the interior D line.
We have a very good TE when healthy, and he was a third rounder. Also, Graham and Hernandez.
Right now we have a 6th rounder and a UDFA at right tackle and guard, so 3-5 round picks should absolutely upgrade those positions.
I’ll agree with you about Carr. I think it’s essential that we keep him playing for us if we want to keep the same level of defense that we had last year. But Berry’s hopeful return should help things quite a bit if we DO lose Carr. And we have a good enough receiving corps that we shouldn’t fall off the map if Bowe leaves.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And no free agent is realistic. We have a 1/32 chance of signing any single free agent.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Chiefs going to the Super Bowl is Unlikely.
Me canceling my season tickets is very Likely. Tired of going out there watching the same old shit.
You have season tickets?
and you live in Nevada?
"The greater the struggle, the more glorious the triumph"
Eric Berry counted to infinity -- twice.
Twitter: @Mr_Hoosier
He's looking for the real killers.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
In prison?
Providing COLOR commentary for Arrowhead Pride! AKA The Picture Diva!
"To be good is to be forgotten. I'm going to be so bad I'll always be remembered."-Theda Bara, silent film vixen
That's the best place to find them.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
I think this is great news
and I am well aware that it is unpopular to think this way.
It’s a 2 QB draft. One of them has been called a can’t miss/best in years prospect, one is super exciting that everyone is in love with. One of them is going #1. One isn’t.. So we should go up against every team who wants that pick and outbid them? Not a chance.
I won’t even mention the Patriots because people cringe at a system that works. Look at the Packers, the Texans, the Steelers, the Ravens. They built their teams over time specifically because they DIDN’T do stuff like this.
Everyone have a good cry and let’s worry about the pick we will make and the players we do have.
by Steve_in_RI on Jan 12, 2012 12:50 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
+1
Let’s get some coaching in place. OC, DC, and promote/hire to fill any in-house holes created.
Then, let’s look at FA candidates long and hard and try to sign a couple that make sense.
Once those things are done, we can worry about the draft, eh?
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
THAT kind of thinking
won’t generate the Thormans any money between now and April.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
So true. If that happens, the multi-billionaire brothers won't be able to wallow around in their treasure baths anymore
And that would be a damn shame.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
at least were not still waiting on Jeff Fisher
Hey, Fisher fans, how’s that going for the teams that want him?
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Actually, the Ravens traded up to get Flacco
The steelers and packers found their QB in the draft. Texans traded for theirs, not unlike what the chiefs tried. There is no “sure-fire”way to find a QB and build a winning team.
Save the “I know better, now get over it” crap for the ladies. It won’t work here
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 12, 2012 1:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I still think the most sure-fire way to build a perenniel super bowl contender
Is to be amazingly lucky.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
by TRSChief on Jan 12, 2012 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Yup
You could let the luck come to you by playing it safe, or you could make your own luck go get it however you can
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 12, 2012 1:28 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Actually I find that my common sense approach works everywhere
but thanks for the condescension.
Also: the Ravens moved up to #18 in the draft, so they did not give up what we would have to as I was saying.
And the Texans moved up two picks and gave up future 2nd rounders, again validating what I was saying.
Seizing the right opportunity vs. any opportunity that looks good separates the good and bad teams in this league. But alas, I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know I’m sure.
Unfortunately for all of your common senses and certainties
Again, there is no exact science to building a winning team. Teams go about it in different ways, and none have proven to be the ONLY way to do it.
You, I, not any football genius can say what the “right” opportunity is until it is taken. If we save all of our draft picks to not use them in trade to get a player, such as RG3, and all if those picks bust out, while RG3 becomes a superstar, what was the “right” opportunity?
Its just silly to think that one way is the best way. I thought you were better than that, steve
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 12, 2012 4:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
RD
I’m strictly talking about me using common sense on the examples I provided.
I don’t profess to be an expert. But we as a group blast other teams when they give up the farm, I just think we are in a position where continuing the model they are following will work. Is it a wimpy take? Sure, it is really not a big risk. I just think we all get so caught up in what we don’t have compared to some of the other good teams that we want to find the quickest way to catch up. And that’s not always the right way.
Honestly, RG3 might end up being the best QB in years or he may not (profound lol). We want Pioli to take risks but for a team who is slowly building itself up through it’s drafting (Carl and Scott), I just don’t think the timing is right. Will it ever be? I don’t know that either.
As you say, none of us are experts and I apologize if I tried to come off as one. But my common sense notion was merely about the teams I had mentioned as models that support a safer route.
I guess I just wish (like most) that we didn’t have to take such a leap to have a QB and I wish our guys could get it done. Sorry for the douchebaggery if I displayed it.
I understand your points
It was the “everybody will cry about it” line that set me against your points. No big deal.
The way I look at this team is that we are set with young, highly talented starters in most positions, and the positions we need improvement on the starting roster aren’t exactly 1st round important to fill. As in, we need some interior o-line improvement (center or guard), we need a RT, we need a NT, and maybe a SILB (but doubt that is a priority with Siler’s extension). We definitely need depth all across the board.
You can get those starters in the later parts of the draft just as easily as you can get them in the first. You can get quality depth later as well. Luckily, we aren’t the Rams and need everything. So, imo, giving up a couple of first rounders, and a couple more mid-lower picks really doesn’t set us back all that much, especially if the exchange is the chance at a franchise changing QB, which you have a beret chance of getting early in the draft.
If there was ever a time to make a move like this, its now. However, that is all contingent in bringing back the two key players, Carr and Bowe. If they walk, maybe the priorities change. If we keep them, go get that QB
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 12, 2012 8:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
If we can keep those two
I can see it making more logistical sense. Sorry again about the confusion before.
by Steve_in_RI on Jan 13, 2012 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
remember the new orleans ricky williams draft day deal?
now tell me how many superbowls the saints have won and how many the chiefs have won since that time.
side note: the patriots, packers, texans, steers, and ravens have built their teams around elite quarterbacks, not conservative draft approaches.
contracts in the nfl are short. bad drafts, bad free agent signings, trading away picks, etc. are all quickly forgotten as long as the salary cap is managed and you find a true gem of a quarterback in the draft.
the approach you approve of simply calls for more years of mediocrity. and paychecks for scott pioli. but not much more.
by Chief Farmer on Jan 12, 2012 10:13 PM CST up reply actions
Solid O- and D-lines buy you more than mediocrity
they make you perennial contender. Those are where we should focus this year
Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback
by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 12, 2012 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
Chief Farmer's New Orleans example shows that there is no one best approach.
NO and NE don’t have solid D lines, but they are perennial contenders. GB doesn’t have a solid O line, but they are perennial contenders.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
RGIII
Lets gamble for once in my 37 years on this planet.
by mu-chief-stl.cards fan on Jan 12, 2012 1:56 PM CST reply actions
So far Berry is a bust too.
Played one year and injured the second just like Tony Moeaki.
by OJ In Nevada on Jan 12, 2012 5:15 PM CST up reply actions
Nice
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Berry's excuse is that he didn't go down in the natural course of making a play, he was victim of a dirty hit.
Also, he showed durability his rookie year by playing more snaps then anybody on the team.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Pioli could be bluffing but I doubt it
Seriously if Pioli isn’t smart enough to know when you get QB caliber of Andrew Luck or RG3 then he’s stupid. Don’t matter how many good players you have if you don’t get QB then you’re going to spend time in mediocrity and you’ll be out as GM in yr or 2 and someone else will draft QB in 1st rd and take all good players you drafted and a QB and get all credit. So Scott needs consider that. IF he’s serious about being here along time and retiring in QB driven league you better get can’t miss QB prospect like Luck or RG3
Bowe dorsey & 2 firsts
should be the winning ticket.. Rg3s going to set the combine on FIRE!!! Fuck what Pioli says, seeing how pumped up this town would be,if im Mr Hunt im all in for Griffin.Afterwards smack pioli on the ass & say"now go clean it up for daddy,and tell Matt his days are numbered.."
GIVE JAMAAL THE DAMN BALL!!!!!
by chief913-816 on Jan 12, 2012 11:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
QB trade up
I understand what Pioli is saying and for the most part I agree, and I would not have traded up to get anyone in recent drafts, but RG3 would likely be the franchise guy for 12 to 15 years. I have never seen anyone in my 63 years with so much upside. Not even Peyton coming out of college. Who knew? Just sayin
My thoughts...
This team can be competitive next year in the AFC by getting back all of our key injured players. Cassel looks a lot better with Moeaki and JC to take pressure off of him and give him more targets besides Bowe. Breaston and Baldwin should be better next year as well. Plus our rookie class will be much improved. Our defense will continue to get better, and should be a top 10 unit in 2012.
But…. Will we win the AFC West only to lose in the first game of the playoffs again like we have the last 8 tries? I think so. Until this team is willing to put all the chips on the table and go for a QB like RGIII, we will only be good enough to sell merchandise and put butts in the seats at Arrowhead. In the NFL today you need a stud QB to have a realistic chance to win the Super Bowl. Is that really what Pioli is trying to do? I think every single person on this website would take a Super Bowl victory even if it meant we had to sacrifice some long term stability at a few positions to make it happen.
Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens...
RGIII would die behind a bad OLine
and that’s what we would have if we bet the farm on him and stood pat with what we got. FA will help, but not enough, we need rookie talent there, too
Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback
by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 13, 2012 12:04 AM CST up reply actions
Buy a new O-Line IF Needed?
Heh!
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 13, 2012 12:15 AM CST up reply actions
Rebuild the Oline into something formidable
and THEN roll the dice on a franchise QB
Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback
by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 13, 2012 12:51 AM CST up reply actions
Why? You don't need a formidable o-line to have a successful QB
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Jan 13, 2012 3:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Maybe not with a Peyton Manning
But it helps develop a rookie QG like RGIII
Needs for 2012:
O-line
D-line
Linebacker
Quarterback
by Bleedingredandgold on Jan 13, 2012 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Hey man, if we could land Nicks in free agency and draft a good RT later
And manage to pick up RG3, I’d cry tears of joy for weeks until I just passed out and went into a coma that would conveniently end somewhere right around OTA’s or training camp.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
3-12 Vs. First Round?
• Jan. 9, 2011 Baltimore 30/Kansas City 7 Flacco(1st)
• Jan. 6, 2007 Indianapolis 23/Kansas City P.Manning (1st)
• Jan. 11, 2004 Indianapolis 38/Kansas City 31 P. Manning (1st)
• Jan. 4, 1998 Denver 14/Kansas City 10 Elway (1st)
• Jan. 7, 1996 Indianapolis 10/Kansas City 7 Harbaugh (1st)
• Dec. 31, 1994 Miami 27/Kansas City 17 Marino (1st)
• Jan. 23, 1994 Buffalo 30/Kansas City 13 Jim Kelly (1st)
• Jan. 16, 1994 Kansas City 28/Houston 20 WIN
• Jan. 8, 1994 Kansas City 27/Pittsburgh 24 OT WIN
• Jan. 2, 1993 San Diego 17/Kansas City 0 Neil O’Donnel (3rd)
• Jan. 5, 1992 Buffalo 37/Kansas City 14 Jim Kelly (1st)
• Dec. 28, 1991 Kansas City 10/L.A. Raiders 6 WIN
• Jan. 5, 1991 Miami 17/Kansas City 16 Dan Marino (1st)
• Dec. 28, 1986 New York 35/Kansas City 15 Pat Ryan (11th)
• Dec. 25, 1971 Miami 27/Kansas City 24 Bob Greise (1st)
Can We Get One…PLEASE???
WAR Kansas City Chiefs KINGDOM!!!
by Jason Drue Keith on Jan 13, 2012 12:04 AM CST reply actions
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