Chiefs Got The Timing Right On This Head Coaching Hire
by Joel Thorman on Jan 10, 2012 8:02 AM CST
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PrintThere's one big difference between this head coaching search and GM Scott Pioli's first one -- timing. The Kansas City Chiefs had several weeks before the season ended this time around to plan out A.) who the head coach will be and B.) who will be on his staff.
I mention this because they didn't really have that opportunity with Todd Haley. His Arizona Cardinals had gone to the Super Bowl so Haley wasn't even introduced until the first week of February, let alone organizing a staff at that point, too.
On that note, Pioli talked on Monday about what he's learned from the first time he went through this hiring process that he applied to this go-round.
"I think there was a chance and an ability to be more thorough at this point in time, from a timing standpoint, to figure out and interview more people and talk to more people than we had that the last time," Pioli said. "And there were a lot of things that were not only learned during the hiring process but over the course of the last three years."
Pioli indicated before they interviewed "well over half a dozen" folks in the last few weeks so the number of people interviewed in January 2009 was less than that (although "well over half a dozen" could be seven or 70 candidates).
My point in all this is that if timing was important to them then I wouldn't be surprised to see them adding to the staff sooner rather than later. Crennel says he doesn't know who the offensive coordinator will be (which means maybe not Bill Muir) nor the defensive coordinator, who could come from in house.
There could be only a few spots open on the Chiefs coaching staff. It's going to be interesting tracking who they can get to fill that position.
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Kirby Smart, Defensive Coordinator for Alabama
If not him, anyone who has anything to do with the Alabama Defense. Guy who squirts Gatorade into the defensive players face’s, bring his ass in!
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
I second this line of thought
Problem is, they make more in college ball than in the NFL. Maybe a position coach…
I think
Bama runs a 4-3. We need a 3-4 coach.
by Givemethatmoney on Jan 10, 2012 3:59 PM CST up reply actions
let's hire
Todd Haley as OC! Think about it. he’s done it before. who would know the players better? haha… just kidding, but no, seriously what do you guys think?
by Al-Kyda-Killa on Jan 10, 2012 8:13 AM CST via Android app reply actions
Hahaha
No way. I hope your really kidding. Only if Kurt Warner comes w him. I’m all for promoting Zorn. Keep the continuity .
by Brandt34 on Jan 10, 2012 8:19 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Continuity of suck?
I don’t see where continuity works in Zorn’s favor.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
Plus, remember when he got stripped of his playcalling duties when he was the HC in Washington?
Zorn’s not a bad coach but I’m not sure I’ve seen much to suggest that he’s a great play caller.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
That was also his first shot at it. Not to defend mediocrity, but I do want to put that out there.
And only two guys on his whole staff were his decision…everyone else was a holdover from the Gibbs days. NOT a scheme fit, if you ask me…The difference between Coryell and West Coast offenses is pretty significant.
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 10, 2012 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
But that's assuming he ever really had ANY power over there as HC.
He was put in as HC, but then was immediately undercut by the owner. I’m not sure you can take any lessons out of his time with Washington.
Greg Knapp
Dude has a lot of coaching experience, just helped with a rookie qb to win a playoff game. Shows that he can help with a limited qb.
When will the Chiefs be a winning franchise again?
by Eric Allen on Jan 10, 2012 8:29 AM CST via mobile reply actions
He's bounced around quite a bit though...Niners, Lions, Falcons, Seahags, Texans...
If a patron coach of his isn’t around, he doesn’t get work (Mariucci, Mora, Kubiak). I also dunno if we’re into hiring a pure West Coast playcaller.
The guy from GB, Philbin, makes more sense because he’s in an offense that uses a lot of looks. What they run in Green Bay isn’t really a WCO, unless you call three to five-man reciever groupings that feature 1 or 2 crossing routes “West Coast.”
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 10, 2012 12:47 PM CST up reply actions
Joel, don't be ridiculous! "well over" CLEARLY indicates more than one, therefore Pioli must have talked to at least eight guys ... HUGE difference!
“well over half a dozen” could be seven or 70
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Mark Mangino got interviewed?
He has to count for at least 3 people.
If Gibbs gets the nod for DC -
Don’t be surprised if Vrab gets hired away from Ohio State to coach our linebackers..
Angry Red, 'nuff said.
by chiefsfan62 on Jan 10, 2012 8:38 AM CST via mobile reply actions
How about Mike Martz
How about mike martz for offensive cordinator,could he be a candadate.im just throwing this out their.
Please...no.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Our QB's would get killed in his system
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Hammerfisting my own balls since 2006
Pass blocking is overrated!!!!!!
Just dont ask the QB’s their opinions on it…
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 10, 2012 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
at least
we could finally get rid of cassel.
Tony Richardson, we hardly knew ye...
His inability to process defenses (and the corresponding pass plays) would drive Martz more postal than usual.
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 10, 2012 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
No thanks.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Please throw it back.
Chiefs D held Raiders, Bears, Packers and Broncos to their lowest point outputs of the season. #RAC
speaking of timing ... Pats with unfair advantage? hmmmmmmmmm!
why were the Pats allowed to bring McHoodie on board NOW? middle of the playoffs and the week before they face McHoodie’s former team … wow, how wrong is that?
players don’t get to move from team to team until the season, and playoffs, are over … why is it not the same for coaches?
and think about it: if the Broncos had done this people here would be screaming bloody murder about it!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Jan 10, 2012 8:46 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Had the same thought...
Almost makes me wish the Donkeys whip their ass.
Almost.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
I know, huh ... and I'm not a "fan" of the Patriots anyway
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What, not a Pat guy?
Ups, I totally see you and Belichick smiling over long island iced teas, listening to a Phish CD at a backyard pool party…
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 10, 2012 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't care either way
They had to completely change their offense this season for Timmy boy, so McDaniels doesn’t really have an “edge” on em. And at the end of the day, he’s not really gonna tell BB and Tom Brady shit they already didn’t know
oh, I'm sure there's not much he can say about Tebow, but even a small thing about specific tendencies of other players COULD be a major help
let’s say the Pats win on a last second TD drive … a drive where throws mostly went towards one Defensive Back or perhaps away from another Defensive Back …
how do you know? does McHoodie know that Champ Bailey twitches his left pinky when he has a line on a play and so Brady changes and calls an audible at the LoS because he saw Bailey’s finger move?
how do you know he DOESN’T do that?
see what I mean?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
But see
BB could just call em up and ask em about that either way without hiring him. Coaches call up coaches all the times asking them about any info they can get. I think people are just making a bigger deal than it should be
perhaps, and yet ... how do you avoid the PERCEPTION of improper action?
the solution is simple
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I don't see the perception of improper action
They’re doing nothing wrong. If they brought em along for just this game or the playoffs then sure. But they want em to be their OC and got em. They knew other teams were trying to get em, so what are they supposed to do? Just let em get away and lose their current OC? Can’t punish em just cuz they’re in the show.
I understand that point and have no issues with it for NEXT year
why is he starting work for them NOW? that’s the “issue” here … that’s what they’re doing that creates the perception to begin with
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
How is it remotely improper when it isn't in violation
of the letter or spirit of any NFL rule?
Hire him NOW so someone else doesn’t. This is a non-issue, IMO.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Hooray for philosophy!
How is it remotely improper when it isn’t in violation
of the letter or spirit of any NFL rule?
Perhaps the rules don’t encompass the entire set of “proper” things…
in that case it is simple for something to be improper and yet not a violation of a rule.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Jan 10, 2012 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
They don't.
Perhaps the rules don’t encompass the entire set of "proper" things…
However, they exclude all things improper.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 10, 2012 12:25 PM CST up reply actions
i think this argument is weak...
How can you argue the PERCEPTION of improper actions when it is, just, perception.
Perception – is the process of attaining awareness or understanding of the environment by organizing and interpreting sensory information.
Just because we both see the same things does not mean we gather the same awareness, understand them the same, or organize and interpret the same things.
Therefore it all comes down to opinion. One person sees it as improper, the next sees no wrong doing. The perception is your opinion, but not everyone sees it that way. Why try to avoid perception when no body is ever going to have the same opinion?
What has Bill Bellichick done in the last 10 years to make you think that he cares, at all, about the perception of improper action?
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
His rock solid marraige...his hatred of video tape...the respectful way he speaks to his players and staff...
Don’t forget his disdain for high-powered passing attacks.
/bizzaro
Talk about your plenty, talk about your ills/
One man gathers what another man spills
by go_saleaumua on Jan 10, 2012 12:51 PM CST up reply actions
Why shouldn't they be able to?
No rules that limit when coaches can be hired. Should there be? Not really. If you’re afraid of what a former coach might tell someone after they’ve been away from your team over a year, you don’t have much faith in your current coaches.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:00 AM CST up reply actions
then might as well allow players to move from team to team during the playoffs as well
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I think I see what you are getting at...
If McDaniels had been FIRED by the Rams already, then it would be analogous to a player being cut. This would allow anyone to pick him up. However, McD was still under contract with the Rams, so he should have to wait until next season to start coaching.
And I believe in this case, he should have to be fired before the end of the season, since players can’t be cut by squads now and then picked up for a playoff run by another team.
Not sure why players and coaches
should have similar limits on movement.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
It seriously irks me as well.
I’m definitely not surprised to see Mcdaniels involved in something that, while under the rules, is pretty much underhanded.
There is all kinds of advantages this gives the Pats. How much college game film and time did Mcdaniels spend scouting Tebow and Demaryius Thomas?
I’m not a fan of either team, I hope there is some magical way both teams lose.
by ScoutSoldier on Jan 10, 2012 9:42 AM CST up reply actions
There was a post over on AA that I totally
agree with. I don’t think we can get a franchise QB this year. We would have to give too much up. That being said I would like to sign Orton and trade Cassel. The only reason I say trade Cassel is because I don’t think Orton will sign here w him being here. Get whatever u can for him and keep Stanzi as the backup. The AA article brought up drafting Richardson and having an incredible running game with a top defense. Add 2 offensive linemen in the draft and free agency as well. Then add depth everywhere and you have a recipe for a Super Bowl team. Orton staying over Cassel gives you someone who can stage a comeback w passes down the field if need be.
by Brandt34 on Jan 10, 2012 8:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Yeah I could live with this.
But I would not want a RB in the first. You can find very talented RB’s late in the draft. Take a top NT or get Vontaze Burfict from ASU, the ILB
by readANDgold58 on Jan 10, 2012 8:58 AM CST up reply actions
I think Burfict is wildly overrated ... and ILB isn't even close to our biggest need, nor would a player make much of an "impact" in that position
what a waste of a first round pick … one who has FALLEN in the rankings in recent weeks as it is
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'm not sold on Burfict but...
nor would a player make much of an “impact” in that position
Who knows? We know that Belcher is a liability in coverage, but who knows how that forces our hand when calling defensive plays? or how offenses can take advantage of that by running a hurry-up offense?
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Jan 10, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Agreed
RB in the first isn’t worth it, especially considering other wholes we need to fill. NT, OL, or ILB in the first would be ideal.
We can get a power RB in FA. The emergence of undrafted FA like Murray and Foster shows that you can find talent at the RB position almost anywhere.
I’m not sure about this contract status, but Ivory from NO would be a nice addition to Charles.
precisely this
we have a whole lotta holes in our OLine that would seem to be a higher priority than ILB
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Why is everyone so hung up on ILB in the first?
I just don’t get it… the upgrade over Belcher would be minimal and, like upamtn said, the ‘impact’ that player would make would not be noticeable.
by dudebuddyrage on Jan 10, 2012 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
Just curious
What is your ideal first pick (position or player) on draft day?
Personally, I would like (in order of preference) OL, NT, or ILB in the first. Whether that means trading down is another story, but I get the feeling that Pioli will find the guy he wants and trade down as far as he can to draft that guy.
I’m not pressing for an ILB, but I wouldn’t be upset with an ILB selection in the first. I think with one of the several first round ILB prospects going into the draft (and assuming Houston continues progressing), we could have one of the best LBs corps in the NFL.
First round should always be BPA.
Forget about “needs.” Especially now that there’s a rookie cap. Trade off the just replaced player if needed, or shift them to a different spot. Worst case, you have great depth.
I’d only worry about position later in the draft when there’s less difference in talent between players.
by NJ Chiefs Fan on Jan 10, 2012 9:36 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Good point
That’s why I think Pioli likes to, and probably will, trade back. I think he finds the player he wants in the first round (or second round if Pioli thinks the player will still be available), and trades down until that player becomes the BPA. Obviously this assumes he has a trading partner.
Completely agree
However, if I had to target a position, I would be looking at filling the gaps on the OL and DL. I’m no expert but I would like to see a new RT and NT. If we lose Carr, I wouldn’t mind CB.
by dudebuddyrage on Jan 10, 2012 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
Although
Watching Richardson last night, I couldn’t help but see a little JC25 in him, so I wouldn’t be completely opposed to completing the backfield.
I’m only in favor of these moves if we fix our TE depth. Pope is way too slow.
by dudebuddyrage on Jan 10, 2012 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
I really don't like a first round RB selection
Too many injury concerns and short careers. Not to mention that quality RBs can be found later in drafts or FA.
That’s just my $0.02. But hey, if we do get Richardson, I hope he proves me wrong on all accounts.
Agree
Would much rather see NT, RT and TE in first 3 rounds.
by dudebuddyrage on Jan 10, 2012 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Don't entirely agree.
I think the first round pick should be a starter, at least within the first few games. That doesn’t always equate to BPA.
The exception would be RG3 quarterback, of course :)
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
No on Burfict, yes on RB's later in the draft.
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 10, 2012 9:27 AM CST up reply actions
Burfict is as nuts as Stevie Johnson. Keep that asshat away from my team!
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
The problem is...
Every year there’s a reason (or excuse) for not getting a “franchise” QB. And how long has it been going on?
Sooner or later we’re going to have to bite the bullet and get one.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
There is a reason this year
Only 2 “top” QBs with all the teams needing that guy drafting ahead of us.
But that's exactly his point.
There’s always a reason.
Luck’s going #1. But St. Louis and Minnesota aren’t likely to want to take Griffin. If Pioli wants to package some picks and/or players to move up for RGIII, I fully support it.
Hell, I even like the scenario Nick Wright put out there a few weeks ago about the Chiefs tagging and trading Bowe as part of a package for the Rams #2 overall pick.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Tag-and-trade only if Bowe's hell-bent on leaving.
I think the confirmation of RAC weighs heavily in KC’s favor, when it comes to that.
I don’t think it makes sense to throw away your #1 WR to bring in a QB. I recommend continuing to draft QB and continuing to look at FAs, but not at the expense of keeping the whole team on the up-tick. That, to me, is the more subtle thing, and the sort of thing that requires some sort of scientific, systematic approach, where the obvious things
I’m thinking the main thing the offense needs is more appreciation for utilizing the RBs more fully in the passing game. This was something that seemed to happen INSTANTLY, once Orton was calling the signals. One thing I didn’t like about Haley’s playcalling was it was more about the scripting than the taking of what’s given.
I think Orton and Cassel are both half-empty cups. We want someone with wheels better than Orton’s and arm better than Cassel’s. But if all they did was shore up the OL and keep moving forward on the team-build, I bet they can win with either QB. I just see them being exposed against the better defenses, for one or the other reason, as it stands, now. Hard to say what a Nicks/Grubbs/Decastro plus fresh blood at RT might do for the offense, though. And I don’t see them making continual progress across-the-board (as they have been doing, imo), with the trade-up, at this point in time. Might it pay off big? Might. But also might put them in a squeeze in a couple years. Rember when King Carl tried squeezing to make everything work? The sand just kept slippin’ through his fingers, making it harder and harder to compete, the farther down the road he got.
would of ≠ would've
Why do that
When the Redskins Dolphins or Browns can do the same with trading all their picks(which are higher than ours) and just draft Blackmon?
True
But we could wait another year lol. Orton is still only 29 and could be a great stop gap for 3 seasons. Draft Barkley or whoever next year and develop them for a couple years . That all being said, I could definitely live with making a move for RGIII too. Hope I didn’t just totally contradict myself . Just 2 approaches I would be very happy with.
by Brandt34 on Jan 10, 2012 9:06 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
One more year
with another solid draft, similar to the last two, would set this team up nicely for the future. But I’m in the same boat as you-I would be happy if Pioli made a move on RG3. Win-win situation, I’m just excited to see how the draft plays out!
Yeah, Orton is a "stop gap"
Kinda’ like a Band-Aid on a chainsaw wound…is the problem.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Nononooo.
That’s too mean.
Baindaid on an axe wound.
Actually, I think Orton would be a solid QB. Deep playoff runs would be possible with him, IMO.
Why is Orton a stopgap ? hes 29 and in his prime we could get 4 years out of him easily
The jets are the perfect example of a team that screwed up by chasing that franchise QB instead of waiting for a real opportunity to get one presenting itself .They screwed themselves over taking the franchise QB mark Sanchez and now there window is closing .
by Willie Beamon on Jan 10, 2012 12:36 PM CST up reply actions
Yup. We'd have to make sure that we go after the right one.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Nice point, Willie Beamon.
Going after “The Right One” is always the ideal. It just seems to me that teams that aren’t distracted by a feeling of urgency are the ones that lay a proper foundation, by sticking to their priorities Folks that are always addressing urgent matters, without time to consider priorities, find themselves racing from one crisis to the next. The harder you try to FIX everything, the more stuff needs fixing (sez the Libertarian).
would of ≠ would've
Except I think you're talking about urgency that stems from a sense of need.
I’m talking about urgency that stems from opportunity. IF (big if) RG3 seems to be a special kind of QB, then that justifies going after him. I’m NOT suggesting that we go after just any big name QB because we’re unhappy with what we’ve got. But to neglect an opportunity in order to stick to some kind of plan….it’s the man who waits for his ship to come it who’s always missing the boat.
Urgency that stems from need – our O line sux so draft a right tackle at #11.
Ya know what….I’ve got this deja vu going suddenly….did we make these exact same points to each other two years ago about Berry?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Maybe we did, Brsrkr.
I’m always about the O-Line, but last year and this year, once that 1st franchise tackle was off the board, I really questioned whether the remaining tackles were 1st-round material. What happened to Solder, Castonzo, Garimi, Sherrod? Did they merit 1st-round picks, in hindsight? No. But they may pay dividends down the road.
Berry was a nice conjunction of talent and need, imo. Did you think he was a reach?
Bottom line is that big IF you mentioned, Brsrkr. I think smart and well-intentioned people can disagree on the truth value of that IF. Good folks can disagree about how far along they are on the O-Line, and whether it’s good enough, for the right QB with the right tools. I just don’t like reaching that much, if there’s something that could make my special QB’s introduction to the NFL be a rude one. You can end up with damaged good at QB, and two MORE years away from getting the foundation laid.
So, do we just keep building our big raft, or do we just throw all our lumber in a pile and torch it up, hoping somebody will see it? If nobody sees it, we may starve to death, and the trade winds would’ve taken us straight into the middle of the shipping lanes.
would of ≠ would've
I don't think Berry was a reach because of (cliche warning) his intangibles.
The most talented safety in a draft probably wouldn’t warrant a #5 pick. But if that safety should also be a team leader on and off the field, book smart and football smart, zero character concerns – that warrants a #5 pick.
Now, I see a lot of those Berry intangibles (maybe all of them) in Griffin, AND I think he’s got excellent passing skills, not even taking into account his running ability. But I readily admit that I’m no quarterback evaluator, and I’d respect it if Pioli doesn’t think RG3’s skills warrant the risk, and if he busts then I’ll readily admit that I was wrong and not be one bit embarrassed by it.
I still think you’re overstating the risk of trading up. We don’t have to throw away a whole draft to trade up, even though other teams have. Those teams were stupid, I’d like to think that Pioli isn’t. We won’t “starve to death” if we do it right.
Heh, speaking of “rude” intros to the NFL, I wonder how much damage has been done to Cassel. Taking all those sacks in NE (who I might point out does NOT have a particularly good O line), then dealing with suspect pass blocking and totally inconsistent offensive schemes here. With RG3, I don’t think lack of pass blocking would hurt him much (mentally), I saw him have to scramble out of the pocket regularly at Baylor. My big worry with him is that his receivers helped him by making plays against Big 12 DBs that I’m not sure our receivers can make against NFL DBs.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
"Draft Barkley or whoever next year..." What makes you think that will be any easier than drafting Luck or RG3 this year?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
To every thing (turn turn turn) there is a season (turn turn turn), and a time to every purpose under the heaven
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 10, 2012 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
Coolin' by the lockers getting kind of funky, me and the crew, we're drinking Brass Monkey
You got a dry Martini, thinking you’re cool, I’ll take your place at the bar, I smack you off your stool
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Happy anniversary!
Well done, sir.
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
by ChiefWildcat on Jan 10, 2012 12:00 PM CST up reply actions
Thanks!
Do we go fetal and beg for mercy? Or do we pick up that broken piece of pipe laying on the ground and come up swinging? I choose pipe.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Jan 10, 2012 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
I would love to see
Someone brought in from a high-octane offense (GB or NO) like a QB coach or something for OC. I wouldn’t be opposed to trying to get Chudzinski away from Carolina with a “HC in waiting” tag on his OC title either.
And works well with QBs apparently
He has zero tools in Carolina (besides Cam) and look what he’s doing there. The cupboard (skillwise, minus the TEs) is pretty loaded here…
I'm a big fan of the guy, too. But let's be reasonable.
Cam Newton, Steve Smith, Greg Olsen, Jeremy Shockey, DeAngelo Williams, Jonathan Stewart, etc. are not the worst offensive weapons in the league. The guy’s good, but he did have at least some pieces to work with this year.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
I'd rather not...
… it’ll just make me sad when we end up with Jim Zorn and Matt Cassel.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
Cassel definitely wasn't the kind of QB Haley made his name on.
Orton’s more that kind of QB. Relatively immobile QB with a strong arm, and a solid understanding of the game, as it unfolds on Game Day – what the other guys are doing and where to take his shots. I think Orton can actually lead in that fashion. I got the impression that Haley treated Cassel like a semi-idiot, not wanting him to think too much.
I still hold out hope that Cassel can respond to a more open-minded/simple-minded approach. I always felt like Haley’s offenses were a mile wide and an inch deep. I’d rather see something pretty basic, that leaves room for players to read and react to the opposing D and to each other.
I didn’t see a whole lot of option routes in KC’s offense. It was all either dialed-up direct or it wasn’t to be. It shouldn’t matter what’s said in the huddle, if your WR and QB are in tune, and understand the coverage they’re both looking at. I think that would develop fairly quickly, for Orton. I think it MIGHT develop fairly quickly for Cassel, with Haley out of the picture. I can’t say it for certain, but I think Haley had clear ideas on what sort of offense he wanted to run, and he didn’t quite know the best way to tweak things, when the personnel didn’t quite match his ideas.
would of ≠ would've
NFL live, said a couple weeks ago ,Panthers have a great O line.
That Cam is lucky to go to the Panthers.
Yes. My first reaction was "REACH!" but they laid a pretty good foundation for the kid.
It’s just too bad that they couldn’t keep Julius Peppers around on the defensive side.
would of ≠ would've
If we are not gonna grab a Qb….which at this poiny us really out of the question….we need 2 grab an ilb….not burfict tho….id rather grab donta hightower….or pick up another solid dlineman…basically because i feel as if we need a og instead of an ot along the oline..and there is no need 2 reach for one in the 1st rd..
Running back is an intriguing option as well ……richardson would be a huge upgrade for us at rb over tj and battle….and with haley gone now im really wishin we would have went with phil taylor last year….one thin for sure is that if peyton manning is cut…..we have to make a run at him…..
by RAWKC on Jan 10, 2012 9:31 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I was with you, until Peyton...
Gotta say no. The guy is getting old. He might not even be able to come back and play well. Too much unknown. If you’re going to take a chance, I’d rather take it with Orton or Matt Flynn.
2012 Chiefs Draft Picks by Falcon58: G DeCastro 1st round, NT Ta'amu 2nd round or OT Adcock 2nd/3rd round, TE Egnew 3rd round, RB Ganaway 5th/6th, QB Case Keenum 5th/6th. Resign: Carr, McClain, Bailey, Bowe, Orton (in that order). Trade Dorsey for picks, promote Gordon to DT/DE.
I was with him until "we need 2 grab an ilb" and loose talk about ILB/RB in the 1st was thrown around. Heh.
The thing about “No need to reach for one in the 1st” is that KC has so far made its 2nd- and 3rd-round interior O-Line picks sit out their rookie season. For immediate results in 2012, I think you’re lookin’ at either a reach or one or two FAs. Landing a veteran upgrade to Lilja/Wiegs would bring my and RAWKC’s vision more in-line.
would of ≠ would've
We are a solid qb away from a super bowl run
RAWKC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by RAWKC on Jan 10, 2012 9:33 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Yes, yes the timing is right...so many things about this are right!
Things that struck me about that press conference was Pioli admitting he had to pull the trigger on hiring Haley before he would have liked. What was also informative and reassuring was that with this hire Crennel really seems to want this job. So much so that he encouraged Pioli and Hunt to do their due dilligence and talk to other quality candidates. I have a feeling that some of those interviewed really were not all that interested in the KC organization (their loss).
We should also be very encouraged about the history between Crennel and Pioli. A history that did NOT exist with Haley. One could tell in the presser that Crennel and Pioli speak rather fondly of each other (maybe more Pioli of Crennel than the other way around). This should mean that neither wants to let the other guy down. I doubt you could have said that about Haley.
I also think that because this will be Crennel’s “rebirth” he will do everything possible to be successful. Many things are already in his favor. Number one he does not have a bunch of misfits and malcontent thugs as he did in Cleaveland. Is he similar to Herm? Yes, in that he treats the players like adults. But he is also smarter than Herm. The other thing I really like about this is that as a defensive guy, much like Marty, he will instill backbone in this franchise.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Jan 10, 2012 11:23 AM CST reply actions
Michael Lombardi had some interesting things to say about what BB and he started in Cleveland, and
that BB took to New England and perfected, with Pioli. It sure looked to me like Pioli set out to build a D along RAC’s preferred lines. I’d sure like to see some of RAC’s simplicity and clear message percolate to the offensive side, with a like-minded OC. It’s not like you need to teach your offensive guys a million different little tricks. Just convey the basics of each position, with crossover players knowing the basics of, for instance, FB, H-Back, TE. Get your variations off the physical differences between the different guys you put in the role.
Like New England utilizing Solder as a FB and a TE, here and there, because they have an underachieving front 5, and an exceptionally athletic rookie OT.
Anyhoo, I liked the way RAC explained some of his “psycho” ideas on D. Doesn’t matter who the guy is, he knows his role and the basic execution of that role. It looks like a really SMART defense, because of how bewildering it is to understand, pre-snap, but RAC’s guys know their role for that play, and that role comes with basic techniques that are crystal-clear.
would of ≠ would've
Yeah, I'm excited about RAC.
I think his “simplicity and clear message” is his greatest strength. He talks like a zen master. Not like the manipulative riddle spewing stereotype, but the “when you are young, mountains are mountains; after a first glimpse into zen, mountains are no longer mountains; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains” type. I think if he learned from his growing pains in Cleveland, he can bring this team up to its potential.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I've got to scroll to the top...
what was this about again?
I agree. At least we know how the players will react and play for Romeo.
I questioned the timing at first, but as I heard more scuttlebutt about Haley and his temper tantrums wearing thin on the players, as well as, Clark and Pioli, combined with the Palko and Gaither decisions, I totally agree with the timing. Romeo was able to audition for 3 games, and he did well. He has the player’s support, we don’t want to lose him, due to how well the defense is playing, and I thnk the end of the season provided some optimism for next year, for both fans and players.
Pioli hired Haley without really knowing how the team would react to his style of coaching. He did well, for 2 seasons, but the way he handled the preseason and how unprepared the team was to start the year, I think, began the erosion of confidence in him. I think players will tolerate the yelling, if they believe in their coach, but once that belief starts to wane, I think it starts to alienates them. I think he lost the lockerrom.
There once was a man from Nantucket......Nevermind.
Haley started reminding me a little of Gunther Cunningham.
It wasn’t enough to make your point, but you had to have some verbal zinger to add on top, and that prob’ly got old. I don’t think Haley meant it that way, and felt it was more of a sharp tongue for those who are close and whom you consider your equals. But the HC has to be an authority on so many things, that it’s easy to come across like an asshole. I think Haley invited conflicting viewpoints, but maybe he got outta hand in making his viewpoint known, and in a position to make his viewpoint STICK.
There was much made of choosing players with whom Haley could do the most good, but I think they discovered that Haley lost some buy-in with players who weren’t in that apparently narrow band of personality-types with talent. It’s every bit as important to get buy-in from as many as possible as it is to have a knack for crazy-big up-side in a few of your best players. And that might’ve been it.
would of ≠ would've
I totally disagree Joel
This felt like a rushed decision. Who else did Pioli interview? it seems all Pioli cares about ,is getting his yes men in here. I am very disappointed by this hire. Crennel isn’t going to take this team to the next level
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 5:17 PM CST reply actions
Pioli said he interviewed "over a half dozen" candidates.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
the janitor and the secratary don't count.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 6:42 PM CST up reply actions
But we can learn much from janitors and secretaries.
And, what if they were minorities? Why do you hate black janitors?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
quo?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 11, 2012 4:50 PM CST up reply actions
that is what you will be saying when this team 4-9 in week 14 next year
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 6:43 PM CST up reply actions
no if they win the super bowl I will
Haley was 10-6 in his second year. How did that turn out?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 7:21 PM CST up reply actions
What in sam hell are you talking about?
We’re miles ahead of that 10-6 team, not sure where you’re even trying to go with that. If Romeo doesn’t win the SB we suck, I get it.
yes I want Super Bowls
I thought that was the whole point. Why have a team if you only expect 9-7 every year. That may excite you(and many on here unfortionatley) but that doesn’t get me jumping for joy. Especially , when I see small markets like New Orleans, Indy, Green Bay all hoisting Lombardi trophies
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
Who said I was counting on 9-7
You should let a few of the games fold out before assuming we’re going to be mediocre next year. Still have FA,draft, and a whole offseason. I see big things next year, you clearly think we’ll suck. That’s fine, neither one of us is right at this moment.
do you really think RAC and Orton are going to win a championship/
Because I don’t. Neither are elite level talents at there job
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
Dude it's a TEAM fucking game
Orton with a full offseason with these weapons gettings our injured players back plus upgrades at the OL we’re a top 10 offense. This defense is already a beast without its QB of that D and we got FA/draft to upgrade as well. So yes, I do. Make fun if you want, but like I said neither of us is right or wrong at this moment.
It's a qb game
How many teams win a super bowl without a elite qb. You are wasting your time if you don’t have 1
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 8:18 PM CST up reply actions
ok
guess you didn’t want to answer my question. It’s ok though because NO ONE is winning a Super Bowl without being elite at qb
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
I think RAC is a nice hire.
The D will continue ticking along, and it ain’t as though the offense could get much worse than their historically poor 2011 showing.
would of ≠ would've
Crennel has a lot going against him
1. Age, the oldest coach to win a super Bowl was Dick Vermeil at age 63. Crennel is 65
2. no interem coach ,who got hired to be his teams coach , has ever won the Super Bowl.
3. this is his 2nd stop, but that doesn’t necessarily work against him . However , when you look at the other coaches who have won a championship with there second team , you start to get concerned
Weeb Ewbank won a super Bowl with the Jets. But, he won 2 titles the the Colts previously
Don Shula won 2 super Bowls with Miami. But, he took the Colts to a super Bowl previously.
Mike Shanahan won 2 with denver after being fired by Oakland.
Dick Vermeil won a Super Bowl with the Rams. But, he went to a Super Bowl the Eagles.
Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl with the Bucs. But,he took the Raiders to back to back playoff appearances.
And yes Bellechick won 3 titles with the pats after he as fired by the Browns.
Point is , out of those 6 ,3 were in the title game with there previous team. Out of the remaining 3 ,only Shanahan didn’t win a playoff game at there previous stop
Crennel has never been the head coach in a playoff game
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Jan 10, 2012 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
Hue OC & Emmitt DC
Hue Jackson for OC, he will be as big a Raider Hater as the rest of us and now be able to stick it to em twice a year. He has the credentials and experience especially against the rest of the AFC West. We need get back to the days when we could “sweep” our division.
Elevate Hall of Famer Emmitt Thomas to DC and let him continue Romeo’s work. Minimal disruption for the defense.
Agreed. Perfect Timing!
Romeo Crennel is a class act! I’m excited to see who he brings in to run the defense and offense. I certainly would love if he still called the defensive plays though.
The Romeo Crennel Era Begins!
by NFLFootballWizard on Jan 11, 2012 3:54 PM CST reply actions
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