Tyson Jackson aka Mr.Replaceable part 2

by Kmillz2525 on Sep 30, 2011 11:58 PM CDT

Tyson Jackson is the second most hated on Chief behind none other then Matt Cassel. Now my opinion on Matt Cassel will be saved for another day. For now lets focus on the man of the hour Tyson Jackson. More after the jump.

Tyson Jackson is worth keeping around for the key reason that he destroys San Diego. In the last three games vs San Diego he has a combined 17 tackles and 1 sack. For a 3-4 DE that draws double teams and has had two washed up NT's next to him, he has wreck havoc. To dominate like that against what is considered to be the Best in the West shows his ceiling is higher than most give him credit for. He seems to just dominate San Diego when they run to his side. If he had a LB behind him that was half as good as any of the LB's on Bal or Pitt that player would have 15 tackles and 3 sacks a game.

Now im not saying he's the best DE in the League or even a good one but if he could string together games like the ones he plays against San Diego he could be a rock for our Chiefs. The man has had issues on the field, off the field and everything in between which I think has caused most of us fans to lose focus on the facts. He may have been picked a little high but that doesn't mean he wasn't dominate and a total stud coming out of LSU. He also has always shown flashes of dominance and has the perfect size and ability for the position.

Many people around here have suggested cutting him or trading him or just flat out REPLACING him. The truth of the matter is 300 pound 6'2" DE's don't just grow on trees and the one's that are good get locked up quickly see Haloti Ngata's deal. Sometimes you don't need studs at every position in a 3-4 defense. Problem is other than Tamba Hali and Derrick Johnson we don't really having anybody in our front 7 that could even be considered solid and consistent.

Now look at Pitt and Bal you can probably name almost everyone of there front seven and your not even one of their fans. Ray Lewis, Haloti Ngata, Suggs, Terrence Cody, and Jarret Johnson. There used to be Bart Scott, Gregg, and Pryce to round out that front 7. Pitt has James Harrison, James Farrior, Timmons, LaMarr Woodley, and Casey Hampton. Now look at our front 7 and tell me one player that is better than any of those guys? Tamba is best pass rusher of all those guys but not on the same level of run stopping as Harrison or Woodley. DJ is the best at covering among those players but again doesn't lay the wood or bring the leadership that a guy like Lewis or Farrior does.

All in all Jackson is a starter for most 3-4 teams and we are lucky to have a guy of his caliber on our team. Plus if he plays like he did last week we got us a stud in the making just ask Kalo or read his Front 7 evaluation from last week. Tyson Jackson at this point is un-replaceable especially with the awful depth at DE we have.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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# 3 overall pick?

forget where exactly he was drafted but no way. Not his fault but not even a 1st rnd pick all said and done. This was the only game he has shown life in this his third year. Man, I hope you’re right but this looks like bust to me along with everyone in that draft class

by tomachop on Oct 1, 2011 12:23 AM CDT reply actions

You can't say he's been terrible

Just inconsistent. I mean terrible would be Ryan Simms where he showed nothing at all.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions

he can say it ... that doesn't make it true ;)

nice work, Kmillz

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by upamtn on Oct 1, 2011 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions

Thank you

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions

This was, in fact, not his only game he's shown life.

He looked pretty decent in the first two, but looked like he was knocking off some rust still. Which is far better than most of the defense did.

He looked really solid a few times last year, which got muddied up by a knee injury.

His first year he was just taking up space, which is kind of to be expected – the Suh’s of the world are once in a generation type players. Most D Line guys take a couple of years to hit their stride.

TJax keeps improving.

The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.

by TRSChief on Oct 1, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions

I agree

Jackson is often an unseen contributor. His job is lock up double teams which he does very well. He had a whooping 9 double teams defensed against SD. I hope he starts considering more games together like the SD game this year. After all this is 3rd year when alot of Lineman break out. He has to be more consistant and not get washed off hte line, which happens once in awhile. All in all, I dont see T. Jackson going anywhere. I dont see KC going DE again at the top of the draft anytime soon. After his contract expires he will be reasonsibly signed because no ones going to pay him that type of money. Once Houston gets acquainted to the OLB position at this level that side is going to be damn tough. OLB play on Tysons side has been less than desireable so far.

by BigRatt on Oct 1, 2011 12:29 AM CDT reply actions

Yeah exactly

The only way I see to measure a player like Jackson or a NT in a 3-4 is to look at the players behind them. When those players suck that messes up those stats. Where as like above if you have DJ behind you like Dorsey you can see that DJ fed off Dorsey doing his job well and his stats proved that.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions

Jackson is the 2nd most hated on the team?

You have numbers to back that up?

Also, I don’t hate anyone on the Chiefs. Some should get smaller roles but they are on the Chiefs for a reason. Jackson will never get “sexy” stats being in a 3-4 defense. I’m sorry if you are looking for something that isn’t going to be there. Look at Kalo’s breakdowns. Jackson is playing a good part this season.

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by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 1, 2011 4:38 AM CDT reply actions

fine, be that way (you argumentative bastid!)

dude, he SAID in the post (if you’d actually read it) that TJax is doing a GOOD job …

All in all Jackson is a starter for most 3-4 teams and we are lucky to have a guy of his caliber on our team. Plus if he plays like he did last week we got us a stud in the making just ask Kalo or read his Front 7 evaluation from last week. Tyson Jackson at this point is un-replaceable …

as for the other, do your own damn poll ;-)

by upamtn on Oct 1, 2011 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions

I did read it!

but he contradicted himself a lot

Now im not saying he’s the best DE in the League or even a good one

Did you read it? ;)

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by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 1, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions

yeah, yeah ;-)

perception is everything, eh?

by upamtn on Oct 1, 2011 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions

As of now he's not Ngata

But he’s getting better every game it seems. But at times he still shows that inconsistency and gets blown away. Right now he still had Great games ie San Diego and bad games where he gets shoved around. So in a way he averages out to good

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions

Everyone points to TJax's game to SD and says "SEEEEE!!! HE'S GOOD!"

I guess I missed the first 2 game’s breakdowns that Kalo undoubtedly didn’t do because they were so terrible.
So there, Tyson Jackson had 1 good game. Go watch a Texans game want watch JJ Watt get off the line….as a rookie

by craig in calgary on Oct 1, 2011 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions

Texans run a 43 though... Right?

I’ve been watching TJax closely this year. He doesn’t get the stats, but he’s contributing when he’s on the field. He’s holding his gap and drawing double teams frequently. He’s not getting tossed around nearly as much as he has in the past either.

by Tomahawk29 on Oct 1, 2011 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions

Texans runs the Wade Phillips gap-shooting 3-4

Which is still completely different from the 2-gap we run. Though, was listening to Maas on Nick Wright yesterday and he brought up some good points about what he saw in our defense vs SD.. He said he noticed that we played more 1-gap techniques in that game than usual, which may have played more towards the natural strengths of our linemen.

Would like to go back and watch, but I failed to DVR it. Would like to know Kalo’s thoughts on this…

Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011

by ArrowSpread on Oct 1, 2011 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions

To add...

Given The Situation we’ve got going on in our defensive (or grossly offensive, depending how ya look it) backfield, more pressure up front is absolutely imperative lest we get picked apart. That is pretty much what we saw vs SD.. We were pretty much in Rivers’ face all game, and it led to some turnovers. It would make sense the move to more 1-gap techniques, as by nature it creates more pressure.

Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011

by ArrowSpread on Oct 1, 2011 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs

rec'd for subtlety

The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.

by TRSChief on Oct 1, 2011 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly why I am unhappy

About the way our blitzing is going. I mean why is Tamba dropping back? I get that we don’t want him to be one dimensional BUT what does it matter DT was the same way and Jared Allen is the same. I mean you don’t have your best CB rush the passer so teams don’t expect him to just cover his man.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions

i think that we are trying to move towards a more zone blitz oriented scheme,

rather than this two gap system we’ve been running. i think these days in the NFL, that’s one of the only ways you can legitimately defend the field with your base formation in, with the way that offensive weapons are looking nowadays.

add the unpredictability, and to a degree it won’t matter who you’ve got lined up where because (in theory) you have guys who can drop and blitz from every spot. obviously this isnt foolproof because of excellent blitz-read QBs like Brady & Rodgers, but i think we saw last sunday that we can at least mess with a great QB’s head using that approach.

scheming is just too crazy these days with all these versatile players. defenses need an equalizer for the most important player on the field: unpredictability.

if rhymes were valiums, i'd be comfortably numb
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by Chris Sembower on Oct 1, 2011 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions

Well with the explosivness of most good teams offenses

We need to invest in Defense and I feel Berry was the first big step taken in that direction because he is not only a run stopper he defends the pass as well. but we either need to focus on stopping the run or stopping the pass. Trying to do both is just impossible. Look at Pitt and Bal they have chosen to be absolutely dominate at stopping a teams run game. That way they push teams to pass and become one dimensional problem is we can’t do that.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions

I disagree that is going to work for them (Pitt and Balt)

Might get you in the playoffs and then someone more balanced is going to take you out. Romeos bend dont break works well if you force the other team to consistently go 70+ yards.

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 1, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions

i think you hit on a big part of the problem, that haley actually referenced at some point this week in one of his pressers.

we have been giving our opponents absolutely amazing field position on a pretty regular basis and it’s been forcing our hand big time when it comes to scheming

if rhymes were valiums, i'd be comfortably numb
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by Chris Sembower on Oct 1, 2011 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions

pretty tough for anyone to defend that regularly with any kind of sustained success

if rhymes were valiums, i'd be comfortably numb
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by Chris Sembower on Oct 1, 2011 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions

35 yards of field to defend is not enough

though the Chiefs did manage to stop em one time

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 1, 2011 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions

Agreed

It is next to impossible to prevent a score with some of the field position our offense has given the defense.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions

hi, Mr Obvious ... long time listener, first time caller ...

so, my favorite football team seems to have a little problem in making First Downs, and in watching the team over the past few weeks I’ve noticed that they don’t seem to gain a full 10 yards every time they have the ball

do you think that could be part of the problem?

Sincerely,

Concerned in KC

by upamtn on Oct 1, 2011 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions

Well Im not saying completely put all your eggs in stopping the run

But im saying if you choose to stop the run then PA doesn’t work as well and you can stop having to bring a safety up on help and you can blitz a little more. Having a defense that you can’t run on improves the whole defense as a whole. Instead of having Berry always looking in the back field because he knows he’s got guys up front that can lay wood without his help he can then focus more on the TE or whoever.Plus I feel our ability to create turnovers is poor at best aside from last week name someone who has picked off a good QB on our team? we rarely create turnovers and give our offense great field position.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions

Flowers, Berry, Lewis, and DJ all can get Int's

Hali and Belcher and DJ and Berry all can cause fumbles.

We had quite a few TO’s last year, that was one of the caveats about this season. The reversion to the mean on TO’s that would hurt us. Most of that was on Cassel’s superb season prior to the Oakland and Baltimore games though.

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 1, 2011 3:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Can is different that do.

DJ had rock hands last year and aside from putting glue on his hands he won’t get better. Berry did a stellar job of picks but some were luck like that one duck that got tipped. But we don’t have a real 5 or more INT guy a year. Tamba is really good at the Tamba chop but he’s about it. Berry lays the wood and causes fumbles from time to time but having a safety make a lot of run stops isn’t always good

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions

I don't understand the point then :)

TO’s are because of opportunities

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 1, 2011 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions

Well sometimes you have to create your own.

Look at some of the Best Cb’s in the league they make there own INT don’t just catch some duck by a QB. Now DJ does this really well he finds the perfect spot and baits the QB problem is he has the hands of 3 year old. But I would like a ILB that lays the wood like Berry and can cause Rb’s to fumble

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions

So... we need Berry in a 260lb body?

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 2, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions

isn't Watt playing in Wade Philips penetrating 3-4 scheme?

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 1, 2011 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions

Somebody has informed thoughts

Yes he does so his job is to blow off the line. Plus Watt and Jackson are like comparing Wilfork and Suh they both play in the middle but one is supposed to eat 2 blockers and the other is supposed to dominate a single team and blow bye it. No offense to Craig but Jackson does a different job then Watt

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions

1?

He’s played well all season including pre season. Also he looked great against San Diego last year and a few other games. He had 12 tackles in 2 games against San Diego last year…. those seem like good games for a 3-4 DE

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions

Do you read alot of AP?

I mean people will say he gets blown off the line or other stupid things about how he isn’t worth being on the team or is overpaid or whatever. I love the guy always have I mean he;s the perfect size and ability for a 3-4 DE to me and looks amazing at times. Im just saying a lot of AP posters make it obvious they aren’t happy with his play

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions

No, I'm a newb

Arrowhead Pride Weekly

by Chiefsfan85 on Oct 1, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions

n00b!

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 1, 2011 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions

I think hate was just a figure of speech or the wrong word used

No one hates our players….

Come at me bro, and I will throw a 2 yard screen pass to my running back, come at me bro.

by Kblomfiee on Oct 1, 2011 6:09 AM CDT reply actions

Other teams might...

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Oct 1, 2011 6:40 AM CDT up reply actions

Mathews

Hates Jackson and so does their RT and RG.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Exactly im just saying

He is the second most criticized player from us fans.

by Kmillz2525 on Oct 1, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions

Casual watchers look for tackle and sack stats.

KPM stats are a little more informative, but they can mislead, as well.

I do like the way Jackson is clogging up the strongside runs. Tough to make headway, there.

I’m a little less happy with his reaction to the cut-backs. In my half-assed theory of the 3-4, I’m more pissed off about loss of inside seal. It’s more important to me that the run be forced outside than in how far outside the DE strings it out. Sure I want the ’back to have to take a wider angle, but the main thing, to ME, for that inside 3 is freeing up the back 7 to finish running plays outside the hashes, and be able to attack those areas without hesitation, meeting the runner on the play side EARLY, with the back-side pursuit scraping the backs of the blockers trying to keep Jackson and company from preventing the cut-back.

I still hate to see ANY cutbacks BETWEEN the front 3. That, to me, is unforgivable. That means, from Jackson to Gregg to Dorsey, there’s nothing. If you want to cutback against that group, you need to go all the way back around Dorsey, AND Hali and DJ, who are mopping up behind that 3-man pivot for the D. What I seem to see, though, is a fair amount of inside leakage and ILBs who, by turns, take it outside when the play goes inside or go inside when the play goes outside.

But then, it seems like ALL bets are off, and most of the time, as mentioned in other articles, Crennel has the starting front 3 on the bench, and Gilberry and Bailey are trying to penetrate, and the LBs are trying to play off what this less disciplined attack creates for them. I think it’s one thing to try to be hard for offenses to predict, but I think it’s also important to have an identity. There have to be well-established base threats that impose certain tactics on opposing offenses. THEN you can vary off those main threats, in the expectation that your variations are well-conceived.

What I’ve seen a fair amount of is running variations right away, because wrong-footing, rather than solid execution, is their main chance. Offenses see that variation (the (soft) 2-3-6) being presented agains the 3 wides, and know just how to get after it. Personally, I’d rather see them take more chances against the spread, and use what little remains of the rule book to punish offenses for their stupid, college-rules tactics that ought to succumb to NFL-style defenders, selected to use the NFL rule book and not just perpetuate the (coverage) stupidities inherited from the college game.

Crennel tried some nice blitzes out of that 2-3-6 thing. I hope to see some of that, but against McNabb, I think Hali getting a hand on the guy or coming within a couple feet of him isn’t going to quite be enough. If Arenas is going to bounce off Rivers, I don’t see him doing much to McNabb. The GOOD thing about playing McNabb is the KC blitz ought to be able to get inside his head and induce him to force the ball into coverage against the 3-man rush. There’s a similarity between McNabb and Cassel in that regard. I think both could be great QBs, but it’d have to flow from high confidence in what the front 5 are giving them.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Oct 1, 2011 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions

thank you! we need to stop the run ... it's that simple

I’d rather see them take more chances against the spread, and use what little remains of the rule book to punish offenses for their stupid, college-rules tactics that ought to succumb to NFL-style defenders

what’s the old adage? anytime you pass 3 things can happen and two of them aren’t good … let ‘em pass if that’s how it has to be, but do NOT sell short on the run (and with the Vikings there’s absolutely NO reason to play that 2-3-6 the way McNabb has looked) … drop DJ back, or Houston or Sheffield but do NOT go with that silly scheme

by upamtn on Oct 1, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions

Yes. Pressure McNabb and try to blow up Peterson in the backfield.

And don’t play scared with your DBs. No big soft spot behind the line for screens to develop. Take your chances down the field against ~~Cassel~~ McNabb.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Oct 1, 2011 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions

he does what he's asked to do

and does it pretty well. If you don’t like him as a 3rd overall pick then your issue is more with taking a 34DE with that selection rather than Jackson himself. DE is probably the least sexy position in the 34. you’re not a play maker really; you’re a facilitator.

by SillyHatDay on Oct 1, 2011 12:25 PM CDT reply actions

Yes. That's the standard theory.

I think that pick was all about making sure they made forward progress, with high floor being more important than high ceiling. But I think they also thought he was a high-ceiling guy, for what the 3-4 identity they wanted to forge.

Frankly, when I see offenses attacking the KC defense, they never appear to take Jackson lightly. I see them run at him, but it seems as much because they were already going to have to waste 2 hats on him, anyway, and the doubleteam gives them a local advantage they might as well go after. When I watch Jackson, I mostly just want the other 10 guys to do their freakin’ jobs, because he appears to be taking care of his.

I’ve been pretty patient on the ILB front, wanting the front 3 to do THEIR jobs well, before doing more than roster-churn at ILB. It has been, and REMAINS difficult for me/them to get what is wanted/needed at ILB, with the split-personality D they’re running. They have that base 3-man front that SHOULD allow them to plug in reasonably smart and durable LBs behind, and have them do well, even just with roster-churn, but then they run mostly 2-man fronts, with the 3 starters on the d-line all on the bench, and the LB job description changes radically.

If they’re determined to be split-personality up front, then maybe they DO need to go gold-plated at ILB. I mean, SOMEbody on the D has to play all 3 freakin’ downs at a high level. It’s really hard to have any depth at all if you insist on fielding two entirely different front 7s all day long. And very few of the guys on the field are going to be rock stars, if you’re looking for both a great 4-3 (2-4 or 2-3) team and a great 3-4 team.

Against San Diego, it looked like the Chiefs used their #1s a little more, and mixed things up on the front 2 a little bit more, but still a lot of 2nd-shelf players in the middle for a big chunk of the game.

Myself, I’d rather see more 3-2-6 than 2-3-6. More 3-3-5 than 2-3-6. Make that front 3 your identity, and mix in Gilberry, Bailey, Gordon, for different, maybe lighter-and-faster versions agains the 3 wides, but swap out an ILB for a DB, before swapping out your whole d-line for 2 DBs and 2 DLs who play totally different.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Oct 1, 2011 7:51 PM CDT up reply actions

more 3-4-4 thank you very much :-)

but yeah, anything but that 2-3-6 … it just isn’t working for us, and when something isn’t working … don’t do it

by upamtn on Oct 1, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions

Crennel's done stuff like that successfully for years.

I think it’s why Bailey was brought in, and he really wants to see that thing work for ’em.

All due respect to Steve_Chiefs, I’m not sure that the guys behind that 2-man front have quite figured out just how to play it. I think it’d be nice to see Gilberry and Bailey just be able to fire off upfield, which they can both do very well, as can Jackson, Gordon, and occasionally Dorsey. If the other 9 guys can play off a pair of big disrupters in the middle, Bailey and Gilberry CAN help them up the ante.

I’ve been very surprised by the # of snaps Bailey has gotten, this early. MAYbe the coaching staff was wanting to knock the rust off the big men, before going full force. They could maybe survive relatively unscathed, if they lost one of those two, early, but would be death warmed-over if they rolled the dice with insufficiently prepared widebodies and lost one of their front-line guys early.

That’s one thing the short offseason really curtailed, and that’s the amount of work done in pads. Just look at Denver, who tried to bring their ‘A’ game from Day 1 and lost Dumervil and Warren for the season, already. Now their ‘A’ game looks like a ‘C.’

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Oct 1, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions

I wonder if Bailey gets a lot of reps early...

is that they Chiefs want to see what they have in him. They want to give him as man reps as possible. If it doesn’t work, they can try him at another position without stunting his growth too much. I seem to remember that he played a lot of different positions in college. The Chiefs said there were going to try and keep him at one. If he doesn’t work there, how long before you try and move him to another position?

Live Adventure!

by MountainManMike on Oct 1, 2011 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions

DJ and Belcher have been a good ILB combo so far this season

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 1, 2011 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions

Hope you're right, Steve.

The D-front does seem more active this season.

would of ≠ would've

by hmills110 on Oct 1, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions

probably cause of the d-front

Dumerviel is lost for the season?

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 2, 2011 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions

Injury Report vs. Green Bay
September 30th, 2011 – 2:55pm by Max Henson
Here is the injury report for the Broncos’ Week 4 matchup with the Packers.

Eddie Royal (Groin) Out
Demayrius Thomas (Finger) Out
Julius Thomas (Ankle) Out
Champ Bailey (Hamstring) Questionable
Elvis Dumervil (Shoulder/calf) Questionable
Marcus Thomas (Groin) Questionable
Knowshon Moreno (Hamstring) Probable
D.J. Williams (Elbow) Probable

by Steve_Chiefs on Oct 2, 2011 12:11 AM CDT reply actions