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Is Pioli to blame?


I've spent some time contemplating the reasons for what I perceive as the Chiefs' lack of depth in 2011, specifically I wanted to take a look at whether the Chiefs' free agency and drafting in Pioli's time here was to blame for it.  To do so, I decided to compare the Chiefs' and Patriots' drafts and free agent singings since Pioli has been in KC.  To preface, my definition of an impact player is someone who sees the field regularly and/or has a significant impact on the game's outcome.  I am only including players currently on their respective team's roster.  The results are a little different than I expected. (more after the jump)

Star-divide

Chiefs drafted impact players since 2009 - Jon Baldwin, Eric Berry, Jon Asamoah, Ryan Succop, Dexter McCluster, Javier Arenas, Tony Moeaki, Tyson Jackson

Patriots drafted impact players since 2009 - Nate Solder, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Spikes, Aaron Hernandez, Zoltan Mesko, Patrick Chung, Darius Butler, Julian Edelman, Ras-I Dowling

Chiefs FA/Trade impact players since 2009 - Matt Cassel, Thomas Jones, Casey Weigmann, Steve Breaston, Jovan Belcher, Leonard Pope, Ryan Lilja, Kelly Gregg

Patriots FA/Trade impact players since 2009 - Leigh Bodden, Albert Haynesworth, Chad Ochocinco, Deion Branch, Danny Woodhead, Brian Waters, Benjarvis Green-Ellis

For sheer number of impact players, it would seem just about even, with a slight edge to New England.  The Chiefs, with less draft picks, drafted and/or signed almost exactly the same number of impact players as the Pats.  The difference to me appears to be some bad luck, some questionable draft choices, and a huge difference in the original base of talent.   At the beginning of 2009, the Patriots had Brady coming back, a good offensive line, a good defensive line, and questions at TE, LB and DB.  The Chiefs, on the other hand, had nothing at quarterback, an undiscovered Jamaal Charles at RB, nothing at TE (after trading Tony) a bad offensive line, a bad defensive line, bad linebackers, 2 good corners, and bad safeties.  We're talking a true 2-14 level of talent team here in KC, and a true 11-5 or 12-4 team in NE.

For drafts, the jury is still out both in KC and NE on several players, as it's year 1-3 in their careers.  The head-scratchers for me still are McCluster and Moeaki.  McCluster is a talent, no doubt about it, but he's too small and not elusive enough to be a really effective player in the NFL IMO.  He's going to get hit by much bigger guys and he's going to lose the ball from the impact.  It's been proven.  He's a good but not elite returner.  We traded up to get Moeaki when Aaron Hernandez was still on the board.  I thought then and think now that Hernandez had more talent and less injury issues than Moeaki.   Moeaki is a good player and the talent is there just as expected, but the injuries are there just as expected too.

For Patriots free agents/trades: Bodden is a solid corner; Haynesworth hasn't shown much yet; Ochocinco, Branch, Green-Ellis and Woodhead all play well inside a very good offense; and Waters is a veteran who has stepped in aptly on an establish o-line.  For the Chiefs: We all know Cassel's Pro Bowl and his weaknesses too; Jones and Pope played well inside a good offense last year, and Breaston hasn't had a chance to prove himself this year.  Weigmann, Lilja and Gregg have neither distinguished nor tarnished themselves on average lines IMO.  Belcher is an average ILB.

I guess to me that means Pioli has done a pretty good job here.   Has he gambled?  Sure.  So does every team in the draft.  As a fan, the lack of information from 1 Arrowhead is frustrating, but I get it and it has no bearing on whether he's done a good job or not.  I think it does cloud some media judgment and tend to lend a harsher tone.  However, other than Tony G (who I really count as already gone), I'd say every position group is better than it was 3 years ago.  There really isn't much difference in the talent level acquired here vs. New England in the time that he's been here.

The question is where do we go from 89-10, 0-2?  If the results continue to be as bad as they've been, I can't imagine Haley lasting.  Pioli, though, seems to have done his job as far as acquiring more talent.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

Comment 38 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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yeah our d line anchored by the awesome

Tyson Jackson, just rocks.

As does our non existent wideout corps.

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Sep 19, 2011 12:20 PM CDT reply actions  

WR I blame on Cassel

Is inabilities makes it next to impossible to open up the play calling to make the passing game more deverse. Hell Cassel can’t run a simple Offense.

by backbone313 on Sep 19, 2011 12:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bowe drops passes no matter who's throwing

as for the rest, its not like they light up the NFL once they get released

maybe Baldwin has a career as a light heavyweight, if he can get his glass hand taken care of

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Sep 19, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure where I said anything very positive about our d-line

I said Gregg fit into an average d-line. I don’t love Jackson and didn’t like the pick at all at the time. There have been other posts on the subject, but let’s look at that pick and the 10 subsequent picks:
3 Tyson Jackson DE
4 Aaron Curry OLB
5 Mark Sanchez QB
6 Andre Smith OT
7 Darrius Heyward-Bey WR
8 Eugene Monroe OT
9 B.J. Raji DT
10 Michael Crabtree WR
11 Aaron Maybin DE
12 Knowshon Moreno RB
13 Brian Orakpo DE

Given the circumstances – namely, just having traded for Cassel – the most logical picks for KC would have been Curry, Monroe, or Raji. Raji had just popped positive for drugs at the combine – not what you want in a #3 overall pick – and there was some concern about his ability to play NT. Monroe has been injured and struggled at LT so was switched to the right side. Curry has 133 tackles in his first 2 years in the league, is often fooled, and didn’t even start all the time last year.

Hindsight being 20/20, of course, Raji almost certainly would’ve been a better pick, but that draft did not have very good first round talent.

I personally believe we have some talent at receiver now and are doing a terrible job of utilizing it. The best in the NFL? Of course not. Bowe drops some passes, and the rest are average, but together they’re solid. Have to get them the ball where they can make plays though.

by u2nspenserfan on Sep 19, 2011 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Keep going down in the first round... some great picks

Like Matthews

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Sep 19, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions  

There were some good players taken, no doubt.

As I said, I’m not a fan of that pick now and wasn’t then. But the top of that draft hasn’t been impressive as a whole.

by u2nspenserfan on Sep 19, 2011 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was calling for Raji over Curry

Past is the past though

I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee

by BAMFSpecialOps on Sep 20, 2011 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

And it Builds up over the years

The two busts in the 2009 draft have added trickle down effects. Hindsight may be 20/20, but I and several others didn’t like the Jackson pick. What if……..

2009
Raji instead of Jackson.

2010
DE Lamarr Houston instead of Dexter in the early second. We couldn’t do this because we just drafted two DE’s the year before.

TE Hernandez instead of Moeaki. I watched 95% of all of Hernandez’s games, how he fell to the 4th is a mystery. Dude will be Tony G. 2.0

I will say that the 2011 draft, could easily be the best by Pioli yet. Baldwin, Hudson and Houston will all be above average players here for several years. Stanzi and Powe could develop, and Brown may end up a solid nickel.

by 102win on Sep 19, 2011 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

glad to see this post

Been in an argument for 2 days about Pioli.I was a huge fan of Raji in 09 and Hernandez in 2010.I also couldn’t understand why he moved up for Moeaki.Nice to see someone else who won’t blindly follow on here

Just tell it to call you Billie!

by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Oct 10, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

nicely done ...

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Sep 19, 2011 12:22 PM CDT reply actions  

No, Pioli has done his job... aside from getting a true franchise QB.

Berry, Dex, Asamoah and Moeaki were great draftees. It remains to be seen what we get from Hudson, Baldwin, Houston and others. Tyson Jackson… well… I don’t think hes as bad as so many people seem to think. He shouldn’t have been the 3rd overall pick… but he has been decent at LDE. It’s not his fault he was picked too high. He’s not a “bad” player, just over valued.

Pioli however does deserve a lot of flak for the QB situation. For now he gets a pass. He gambled on Cassel and lost. If he doesn’t correct it in 2012 then he needs fired.

by Tomahawk29 on Sep 19, 2011 12:35 PM CDT reply actions  

Dude....

If you honestly think Tyson Jackson has been decent at LDE you must have been watching a different team. It isn’t his fault he was over drafted, but it is his fault he wasn’t able to beat out Shaun Smith who we signed off the street, as the 3rd overall pick the fact I have to write that is outrageous.

I also don’t get why Dex was a great draftee – he’s fun to watch, but, what has he done? Returned one kick on opening day last year. Aside from that? Got injured and fumbled a lot. Well worth a high 2nd round pick.

by ChiefUk on Sep 19, 2011 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

You do realize that Tyson got injured last year right?

He started the first game and then had a horrible leg injury.

He’s actually been our best DL the last couple weeks picking up double teams on a regular basis.

Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!

by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Smith stepped in when Jackson was injured last year.

Smith was originally penciled in to play NT but got slid over to LDE after TJax was injured.

And yes, Jackson has been an average/good LDE the last couple of weeks. He’s been pulling double teams and pushing the pocket. It’s not his fault when LBs blow tackles or miss their gaps.

Dex has more all purpose yards than any other Chief at this point.

by Tomahawk29 on Sep 19, 2011 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

how many fumbles?

The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.

by sm7600 on Sep 19, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

I thought there was a misprint on Dex's stats

9 catches for 23 yards? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a YPC that low. Seems right thinking back over the games though.

My 2 cents – I personally don’t think he should be cut or anything like that, it’s just a questionable pick that high IMO.

by u2nspenserfan on Sep 19, 2011 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

There were a couple of dump screens where Dex got it and had multiple Lions in front of him.

Either the OL didn’t execute their blocks or Cassel didn’t let the screen develop enough. Hard to blame Dex for negative pass yards when he’s got several opponents in his face after the catch.

by Tomahawk29 on Sep 19, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, I wasn't blaming him.

Like I said, seems right after thinking back… the screens, plus a lot of short routes = tiny YPC. It just surprised me.

by u2nspenserfan on Sep 19, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

only thing I blame Pioli for

Is forcing Cassel on Haley. He should have made the trade yes but only signed him to the 1 year qualifying offer. That gives Haley time to see if Cassel could indeed be his QB needed to run his style of play calling. If 09 was not enough then sign I’m to another Franchise qualifying deal for 1 year.

by backbone313 on Sep 19, 2011 12:40 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

IMO

Haley is the problem. Something is not clicking at Arrowhead right now and all roads lead to Haley. I think Pioli and Haley are not getting along and the players know this and thus are not playing for Haley considering he probably hasn’t endeared himself to them since he arrived.

The best thing to do would be to fire Haley, make Romeo interm HC, demote Muir to OL coach only, promote Zorn to OC. If Cassel doesn’t improve drastically by week 8 then go with Stanzi/Palko (whoever you think could be a future starter) and keep your fingers crossed for this season.

by Bonofied on Sep 19, 2011 12:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Im not 1 to blame Haley

He had a very impressive offense in Ari but with no QB able to run his style of play calling then his hands are tied. Get Haley a QB who can gun sling

by backbone313 on Sep 19, 2011 12:45 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

As a head coach

isn’t he suppose to make it work? Or at least see that Cassel isn’t the guy and make something happen?

by TheScreenName on Sep 19, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

yea through 2 games the other teams DC shut down Cassel

As a HC who don’t have a QB then he is stuck with what he has. And he is being shut down w ease

by backbone313 on Sep 19, 2011 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Through 2 games

our D hasnt stopped shit either. The whole team is a mess. Where to start is a matter of opinion. Starts with the top and trickles down. Owners and GMs will avoid most the heat.. Haley will get it and thats the biz

by TheScreenName on Sep 19, 2011 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pioli and Haley not getting along?

Was this in an article or pure speculation?<—— serious question, not being smart ass…
And does anyone get along with Haley? <———-also serious question but being a smart ass

by TheScreenName on Sep 19, 2011 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice read

Can’t say If he should take full credit for the drafts though. None of us know what goes on during the drafting process so to give Pioli full credit wouldn’t be fair. I do know however that his job is more secure then Haleys. But the hiring of Haley would fall on Pioli so if Haley fails, Pioli made a mess up. Guess will have to wait to see what happens if and when a new coach comes in. If he doesn’t do a great job, Pioli’s legacy might start to tarnish a bit. Til then, I’d rather have Pioli here then gone

by TheScreenName on Sep 19, 2011 1:49 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah, I agree with that.

I’m giving Pioli the lion’s share of the credit for personnel decisions, but I don’t know for certain that these were all his input. (I just shuddered when I said lions. I think I must be still in shock.)

I do think he’s responsible for Haley too, and I would take your evaluation one step further in that if Haley is on the chopping block at some point, whoever comes in next better be very good or Pioli is on the chopping block too.

by u2nspenserfan on Sep 19, 2011 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tom Brady is the uncommon denominator.

I love Cassel. I love his heart and his leadership, but I also think teams realize he can’t throw the deep ball and is not good at throwing the ball on a line 20-25 yards down the field. It’s easy to play cover 2/3 when the safeties only have to play within a 15 yard window.

by MURanger on Sep 19, 2011 3:19 PM CDT reply actions  

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