Why Cassel Makes Sense
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 8:42 PM CDT
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I was going to wait until this semester ended to post another Fanpost, but I have read too many comments from people who have no idea what they're talking about to wait any longer. These are the comments calling for Cassel to be benched. They believe that Haley and Pioli made a huge mistake in getting Cassel and if we had a top-flight QB instead we wouldn't be in this mess. While this has some truth to it, it misses the entire point. There is a very good reason why Cassel is our QB right now. To understand why, you have to look at the NFL like an economy.
In the NFL, players have a certain value. Their value isn't measured in dollars, however. It doesn't really matter the exact dollar amount a player is paid. In fact, a more expensive contract makes the player less valuable because of the cap. The value of players are measured in draft picks. A player like Croyle is worth very little, not even a 7th round draft pick, while a player like Manning is worth a lot, maybe two entire drafts. Usually, the better the player, the more their value (Although not always. A player's value is more about how good they are perceived to be than how good they actually are.)
When Pioli and Haley came here in 2009, the Chiefs had just come off a 2-14 season and were in complete shambles. They had some very important and difficult decisions to make about how to make the team better. They had to identify which players were going to develop and which players they were going to have to replace. In this regard they did very well. They saw that Hali, Bowe, Flowers, Carr, and Charles had potential, while too many to list didn't. (If you don't think they did a good job here, ask yourself how many players we cut that we later regretted). One of the ones who didn't was Brodie Croyle, who was slated to be our starter that year.
The next step was to decide how to go about replacing these players. They realized the obvious fact that our QB situation was terrible, and needed fixing. The problem is that good QB's are very expensive, and even mediocre ones will cost you a bit. Like I said above, a top-flight QB will cost you multiple first rounders at least. So they needed to decide whether to get one in the draft, or to trade for one.
In this case, trading for Cassel was a fantastic move. Other than a few players that needed to develop, we needed talent almost everywhere. And the best way to fill in several holes is through the draft. So it didn't make sense to trade for an awesome QB if it meant leaving holes all over the field. We just needed a game manager to perform at an okay level while we built the rest of the team.
So when the opportunity to trade a second for Cassel arose, it made perfect sense. Not only did we get a competent QB, we did so without breaking the bank and even got a vet in Vrabel to help mentor the young team. Compare this deal to what the Cards had to give up for Kolb and the Jets for Sanchez, the value becomes obvious. This also gave us the time to draft even more players while trusting in Cassel to not completely suck.
The problem is that Cassel is an average QB, and an average QB is good for a team that just wants to build the roster a bit, but not so good for a team that's looking to be a perennial Super Bowl contender. So now that we're past the rebuilding stage and trying to get to the Super Bowl stage, why hasn't Pioli drafted a QB to replace Cassel?
Well, this is speculation, but I suspect that he has. I believe that Pioli saw the success of QB's like Brady and Moon who were drafted late and the failure of QB's like Leaf and Russel and decided that it simply wasn't worth the risk. Why not draft a late-round QB every year until you find a good one instead of wasting first round picks on a position that often busts? They may succeed at a slightly lower rate than high first round picks, but that difference is worth it to get other players in the first round.
A first round bust can really kill a team, especially QB's. It's better to wait for a late round gem like Brady while you play with a serviceable QB than to put all your marbles into one draft pick.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I couldn't agree less.
There just isn’t as many first round busts anymore. Scouting is much more sophisticated.
I’d argue first round picks are successfull over 50% of the time. Late round QB’s are successful about 5% of the time.
Almost every good/great/elite QB in the league now is a high draft pick. Brady is the exception to the rule…
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 8:51 PM CDT reply actions
I agree
nothing is certain but at least drafting a player in the first round gives you much more of a shot at hitting your mark
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Alex Smith was drafted in '05, Russell was drafted in '07.
People still make horrible decisions drafting players. It’s why the Patriots get rid of their first round picks as often as they can. They know that they’d rather have two shots in the second round than one in the first.
Also, part of the reason that not many late round QB’s don’t become stars is because they never get the chance. Imagine if Brady were drafted by Indianapolis instead of New England. We’d just now be finding out how good he is.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Okay so Brady, Romo and Kurt Warner worked out.
How many QB’s have been drafted in rounds 3-7 in the last 15 years?
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
agreed, wustl ... and, nice post and rec'd
agree or disagree with it, I know I for one appreciate the time and effort you put in on making this fanpost … well done
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
the logic of the post is self evident
whatever the QB success rate is
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
totally agree. Look through the league.
There are a busts, but by far and away the best chance you have to find a very good QB is to draft one high (in the first round).
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
but not every high draft pick QB is successful ... it's always a crapshoot when it comes to the draft
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Broken record.
You know what is a crapshoot? Hoping to find an elite QB in the late rounds.
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed ... for any player taken there are no guarantees
so, Pioli should spend his first round draft pick on QB every year til he finds “that guy” or what? and even if he finds one, it takes awhile to develop a QB at this level … back to square one for another 2-3 years, right? then what? and if he gets a guy and he DOESN’T pan out then … well, you get the idea
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
WELL TRY IT ONCE!
When is the last time we drafted a 1st round QB? 1983?
Enough is enough, and not to mention this years QB class is quite deep.
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
fine, have it you way
call Pioli and bitch at him
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I was a Cassel supporter
And I am starting to see what others have been seeing. It wasnt the 3 INTs today. Its the way he lacks the big play making ability. I have seen him throw it deep and I have seen him throw it pretty, but it isnt often enough to do us any good. I dont think people were ever arguing the value at which we received Cassel at, I think it is just the amount of time we have spent waiting for him to get over the hump. It was a great signing when we did it, and last year he was on his way. But it just seems to never get quite there and I think it has some to do with the coaching and some to do with his talent level. Either way, he is not the long term goal anymore
I don't think he was ever the long term solution.
He was always somebody who could be put in there while we built around him. Now that we have a ton of talent (even if most of it is on IR), we can start looking for QB’s. If we do replace him, the rest of his contract is cheap enough where he can be a backup.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I think he was brought in here to be the long term solution
he wasnt brought here to be a band aid by any means
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions
You build a franchise around your QB.
For every Trent Dilfer and Rob Johnson that win a Super Bowl, there are about 5 John Elways, Joe Montanas, and Tom Bradys.
Pioli (Brady) and Haley (Warner) both know that QBs are the key to success. You get a QB, you build a line to protect him, you get a RB to share his burden, you get WRs for him to throw it to, but it always revolves around the one guy.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Sep 18, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
Rob Johnson?
Won a Super Bowl? Dilfer won a Super bowl? Oh ya Dilfer did but..
by Spot the looney on Sep 18, 2011 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions
Excuse me, it was Brad Johnson.
For Tampa Bay.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Sep 19, 2011 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm guessing you're a youngster.
Cassel is nowhere near an average QB. Average accuracy, below average decision-making, sub-par arm strength. Bill Kenney was an average QB. DeBerg was an average QB. Dave Kreig was average. By the time we got Montana he was average at best. The Chiefs never had an above average QB since Len Dawson. Last time the Chiefs drafted a top-flight QB was Blackledge, and they ruined him. Teams that win it all have superstars under center… unless you have the best defense the league has seen in 20 years then you can get by with Dilfer. Cassel makes many more mistakes than Dilfer did.
by fishbowl72 on Sep 18, 2011 8:55 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
How long were they here???
Seriously… Gannon was not used properly. Not his fault, but he was pretty old when he went to Oakland. Green was nice, but we never had a defense during his years. Point being that once we draft AND develop a franchise QB there won’t be a need for someone else’s retread QB.
you said we havent had an above average QB since dawson
it wasnt including a bad defense, or if they were here or used properly..
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
There was about a 4 year stretch
Where statistically Green was the second best qb in the league behind Manning.
yep
And that means even elite QB’s sometimes do not win the SB.
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
whats above average to you?
Brady/Manning are far beyong above average. They are elite… above average to me is like romo, cutler
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions
elite or above average?
I think the problem is our scale of what average is, is way off, and you have had to much to drink
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
^ this guys scale of average is the public perception of average...
I don’t know what you are talking about fish.
Cassel had one of the best interception percentages ever last year.
Clearly, if put in the right situation, he can do well. Unfortunately, with two of our three best offensive players out, he is no longer in a good situation. His best weapons now are Bowe, McCluster, and Breaston.
As for Dilfer, he had 12 TD’s to 11 INT’s in 2000. There’s a reason the Ravens got rid of him after the Super Bowl.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Here in lies the problem.
Cassel is no different right now than he was last year. What many people failed to realize was he still was inaccurate and couldn’t make reads last tear. He was able to succeed because of a dominant running game that covered up his weaknesses. Teams were in predictable coverages so he could make easy reads, and usually had single coverage. Cassel was put in the absolute best situation a QB could be in last year, one in which 25 QB’s in the league could have easily succeeded in.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
which begs the question: what the hell happened to that dominant running game?
didn’t use it last week … nor did Cassel do as well alst week or this week than he did at any time last year … he wasn’t great, but he was servicable … Moeaki aside (and Pope will do in a pinch) what’s going on? the whole team looks like …
frustrating to be sure
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Teams learned from the Raiders, Ravens, and Broncos.
If you get this team down early, they will not recover. There is no heart. There is no fire. There is no leadership.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Sep 18, 2011 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Waters.
Managing Editor at Beyond the Box Score and MLB Daily Dish. Follow me @justinbopp
by Justin Bopp on Sep 18, 2011 11:48 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the problem I have.
He HAS to be put into the right situation. It’s supposed to be the other way around. Your QB is supposed to be the one who puts the team in the right situation. Your QB is supposed to be the team leader who fires everyone up and keeps their heads up. He’s supposed to be in somebody’s ear anytime there is a major breakdown. He’s supposed to be the guy they can turn to when all the chips are down.
But every time something goes wrong for this team, we don’t turn it around. We don’t rebound. We don’t get it together. Bad goes to worse to hopeless in a matter of minutes. That is a clear sign of a lack of leadership which ALWAYS serves as a reflection of the QB.
If Matt Cassel can’t lead this team, then we need to find someone who can. Whether it’s Ricky Stanzi, Andrew Luck, or Byron Leftwich, I don’t care. But the next QB to start for this team needs to be a leader.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Sep 18, 2011 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How about Carson Palmer?
Dude can at least throw it deep and open up the field.
Live Adventure!
by MountainManMike on Sep 19, 2011 12:47 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd prefer to stay out of that mess.
Mike Brown is going to demand a fortune for him just because of his personal beef with Palmer.
As of right now, Palmer isn’t going anywhere. The Bengals own his rights and have said point blank they won’t trade him.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Sep 19, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
Gannon wasn't a franchise guy,
Green was past his prime. Maybe getting a QB under 47 years old might help.
Green did great
it was the defense. Gannon brought oakland to SB…Say we havent had a franchise qb in a while instead of knocking decent ones we have had
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:10 PM CDT up reply actions
dont need to
just replying to what you were talking about. if you said the sky was pink, Id say it was blue.. If you wanna start talking about the clouds, well thats another topic isnt it now
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions
WTF does the sky have to do with average QB?
I liked both Green and Gannon, they just couldn’t get the team over the hump. Sure, they were great CHIEFS QB’s but not great QB’s in general.
It was meant as an analogy..
you saying something, me replying to what you said, then you adding other variables to it…YOU SAID dawson was our last above average QB.. I mentioned green, gannon… You then said they werent above average and that one was old the other had no defense blah blah blah..Now your saying Green and Gannon were both GREAT QBS for the chiefs but not in general… Put down the glass old man and get some sleep. You dont make any sense
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Youngster, watch some old footage
They were great CHIEFS QB’s. Tell me what Green did anywhere else. Tell me why Gannon was our backup and bounced around. Why didn’t Gannon wiin it all with the Vikes if he was so damn good? THEY WERE AVERAGE QB’S. Considering what the Chiefs had before, they looked really great ON A RUN FIRST TEAM. T think you need your Similac, a fresh diaper and 14 hours sleep yourself.
We werent talking about their whole career
you said as chiefs qbs( once again).. So I dont care what they did somewhere else, what they did here is what WE were talking about… I feel like talking to you is like working 16 hours and getting paid for none.. have a good night there guy
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
I know you don't care
That’s what makes you so damn ignorant. An average is made from good seasons and bad seasons. You can’t pick and choose a couple of good years and declare these guys as above average. What makes them great CHIEFS QB’s is the fact that we’ve had so many shitty ones in the past that it makes them stand out above the rest.
easy dude ... no personal attacks, please
relax
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Not getting personal.
And as for an attack, this stuff is pretty mild compared to some others’ arguements. Besides, how bad are the Chiefs when we’re arguing the greatness of Trent Green and Rich Gannon?
Calling someone ignorant is getting personal.
Telling someone they need a fresh diaper is getting personal.
Live Adventure!
by MountainManMike on Sep 19, 2011 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions
so Priest Holmes
he isnt great? just average? because here he was awesome but he didnt play like that anywhere else..So since he only had like 4 years or so we cant call him great?
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, it's amazing.
If those guys had even an average defense behind them, they probably would have won a Super Bowl. They win a Super Bowl, all the sudden they are in the HOF talk. It’s a bit silly that bad defense can completely change how a person thinks of a player on offense.
Live Adventure!
by MountainManMike on Sep 19, 2011 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Why would I care about something we were never talking about
Are we talking their careers as a whole or their careers as a chief? if you change the main subject, please let other person have a clue you did it..
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Here's my point...
Imagine you’re hungry… haven’t eaten in days. A t-bone steak would be nice. Better than a shit sandwich. Instead you get a Big Mac. It ain’t a shit sandwich, but it ain’t no t-bone either. Gannon, Green and Cassel are Big Macs. Bono, Grbac and Brodie are shit sandwiches.
your point changes with every reply
go read what you said from start to finish and be as fucking confused as I am
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
go read everything you typed
then after you feel dumb, go get another shot and realize tomorrow is a new day
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
and it started way up the post
not just this one..go above that and find the first thing you said
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Your the best
I hope Im just like you someday
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions
I do to
just never type it that way.. but if it bugs you please let me know and ill never change that approach
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Are we really debating the greatness of Trent Green?
As bad as Cassel has looked? Here, I’ll give you two points for Green and Gannon being vastly superior to Cassel. Other than that you’re just trolling for a good arguement. All the while we’re both having to work harder to keep the real topic at hand in the forefront.
Id love to see what you just typed
but I cant read….sorry try again later
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
your problem is your stuck in the past
you dont wanna let the past go..“back in my day….” .you still pissed the changed from being called the Texans? now go read a book or do what ever you do when your not bugging me
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 9:52 PM CDT up reply actions
Seems you're tailing me
Not the other way around. You still haven’t provided any information to back your claims, and you feel compelled to respond to each of my posts.
he just isnt it....as much as Ive supported him, I cant in terms of future starter anymore....
its time to take a 1st rd qb unless manzi gets some PT and shows something
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
My point isn't that Cassel is a great QB.
My point is that Pioli made a good decision in trading for him. It seems like everybody is saying that getting Cassel at all was a mistake, which I don’t buy at all.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions
totally agree
At the time it was a great move. They frontloaded his contract for a reason. I think most people thought that this day would come. And it has. The entire world would be shocked if Cassel started next season.
at this point I'm guessing some people will be shocked if he starts next WEEK
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Knowing Haley
Palko and Stanzi will be inactive next week
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
heh
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
haley will stick with him just like he stuck to 2.7
Thinking about next season, this year hes the guy.
Thanks for the support.
I was starting to think that I was the only one who saw this. The ability for people to overreact is amazing.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Overreact?
I’m not saying that trading for Cassel was a bad idea….but it’s brutally obvious that continuing to tie the franchises successes to him is a very bad idea.
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
well, what would you have them do?
We won 10 games last year with a game manager, flush him for what
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Put last year in the mirror
It means nothing. We have to move on, his last 5 games were WAAAAAY below average.
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
his last two games are what we are discussing
Pioli was attempting to fix many of the other holes on the roster in the off-season
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont really agree with that
we are on a losing streak that started at the end of last season. Cassel looked bad the last 3 games of the season and it carried over to this season. I don’t know what happened exactly but something is wrong.
okay everybody that thought we were Super Bowl bound this year
lower your hand
The Chiefs are still in the rebuilding phase whatever you all thought.
Obviously Pioli and Haley knew that our they would have drafted a QB they liked in the 1st rather than another Target for Cassel to throw at
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:24 PM CDT up reply actions
All the QBs available in the first were reached for early
There were no good QBs in the first that would have been good value. Did they get Baldwin for another weapon for Cassel to throw to? No that is ridiculous. If Cassel throws the ball more than 20 times a game it means we lost already.
They got another weapon for THE CHIEFS for THE FUTURE. A future that doesn’t include Cassel. We don’t have a franchise QB yet but when the opportunity arises we will.
He has had a lot more terrible games as a Chief than he has had great games.
About 8 of the 10 wins last year had nothing to do with Cassel.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
I agree last year means nothing, but starting out THIS year would have thought we'd see THIS? not just from Cassel but the whole team? of course not ...
It means nothing. We have to move on
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
how is this year's team so radically different from last year's team?
injuries aside … how is this team not basically the same team?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
not radically different but different enough to not be last years Chiefs
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions
well, there's your assignment for the week, Steve ... figure out HOW we're different
and then what to do about it
and then get that report, with charts and graphs, to Scott Pioli … STAT
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
were they supposed to know that already?
when do you decide to cut bait, it ain’t right after you caught a huge fish
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
That's basically my point
Except I’m saying that we aren’t as desperate as many people seem to think. If we can’t get to the playoffs with Cassel, then any non-Hall of Fame QB wouldn’t take us to a Super Bowl. I fully support an upgrade, I just don’t want to break the bank for one, or just draft a QB high in the first round just because we need one. We need the right one, and it’s cheaper to find the right one in the late rounds.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions
if we have the 1st through 5th pick in the draft it would be the height of stupidity to not do EVERYTHING possible to get Luck
He is as can’t miss as any QB I have ever seen coming out of college. Don’t go crazy trading up but if its possible you have to do it.
I don't think we can judge.
There’s a lot that goes into being a QB, and even GM’s don’t seem to fully understand what it takes. The Packers thought Tony Mandarich was a can’t miss offensive lineman, and they ended up missing out on Barry Sanders, Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas. I’d rather trade that pick away if we’re in a position to take Luck, unless Pioli is absolutely convinced he will be great.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions
amen
I’d rather trade that pick away if we’re in a position to take Luck
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What would you think when he wins 3 super bowls? So in your opinion we can never take a 1st round QB? Luck is THE GUY. He was slated as the first overall pick last year and when he returned the college (why I have no idea, his coach didn’t) he was instantly the first overall pick next year. If a QB is EVER can’t miss it is him.
If any team ever takes a QB in the first round (which I know isn’t the pioli way) this is the year.
Why are you downplaying first round QBs anyway? They have recently been more successful than A. Ever before, and B. the risk is really minimal when you look at all the first round successes in recent years. There are at least 10 QBS the Chiefs have passed on in the last 5 years who are first round franchise QBs.
I’m going to start with 09 since its hard to say on some guys if they will be successful or not.
Matt Stafford – success
Mark Sanchez – success(ish)
Josh Freeman – success
08
Matt Ryan – success
Joe Flacco – success
07
The we get to JaMarcus – we all know how that went, however he was known as a risky pick at the time unlike Luck.
Brady Quinn – Bust
06
Vince Young – neither (i’d say he had some moments but wasn’t a success)
Matt Leinart – Bust
Jay Cutler – Gonna say success on this one but still to be determined
I’m going to stop there even though its on a bad note.
Point is that the chances you are going to get a franchise QB in the first round is greater than the chances you are going to bust. There is nothing wrong with first round QBs and especially recently they have been pretty good.
Sorry for the long post.
by Lucasjr5 on Sep 18, 2011 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
TLDR: First round successes are more frequent than first round busts in recent drafts.
Don’t treat Luck the same way you treat other first round QBs, he is a special talent and should be looked at as a special case in next years draft.
As for that, I couldn't disagree more.
Unless he’s a super hero-type talent, nobody is so good in college that they’re going to be great for sure in the NFL. Luck is still human, and humans can falter in unpredictable ways.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions
Super hero type talents aren't what make great QBs
Luck has intangibles that Russel (superhero talent) never had. There is no such thing as can’t miss I agree but he is as close as many people have seen in a long time. People who get paid to study the QB position.
didn't he throw an INT last night?
yeah, thought so
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
First of all, no he didn't
Second of all, SO? Good QBs don’t ever throw INTs?
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 9:55 PM CDT up reply actions
You're really stretching there Ups
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions
I think your list of successes will change in the next couple years.
We can’t really judge the ‘09 QB’s yet, but none of them seem to be obviously better than Cassel. Ryan, other than his rookie season, has been worse than Cassel if you really look closely. The rest speak for themselves (including ’05 with Smith which you stopped right before). So, yes, a first round QB will be more likely to be great than a 5th rounder, but because of the value of the picks, the 5th rounder is the right choice.
It’s the reason you’re not living in a mansion (I assume). There are better houses than the one you’re living in, but they aren’t worth the cost. The same thing applies here. We don’t want to gamble our entire future on one player.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:49 PM CDT up reply actions
sure i stopped before smith but lets get real here
06 and 07 were both not good years but I didn’t omit those.
Josh Freeman is an up and coming star. Sanchez has some growing to do but watch one of his games and tell me he doesn’t have all the tools. Matt Stafford you saw today. That guy is one accurate SOB. They are all successes so far in my opinion.
Licas, there is no such thing as "can't miss" any more than there is such a thing as "guaranteed bust"
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
we all know that
But my point is play the odds. The chances this guy will be great are very good.
I agree with the post in a sense.
Cassel was good for us. He is good for what he is. Now, however, he is doing the things he didn’t do last season. Make mistakes and take sacks.
He was good at the time and a vast improvement over previous couple years but his time has come and gone. It’s time to look for a more permanent solution. We all know Cassel isn’t it.
well ... tell him to stop
he is doing the things he didn’t do last season. Make mistakes and take sacks.
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Cassel DID make sense.
Pioli did the only thing he could do at that point and got him. Anyone who says that’s a mistake would have done the same thing. Cassel was the Kevin Kolb of 2009.
However, now we need to draft and develop our own QB, AS CLARK HUNT HAS SAID HE WANTS TO. I love Stanzi. If we can’t get Luck, I hope he turns into our franchise QB.
Whatever the case may be, that has proven to be the difference maker in many NFL teams today. I hope we can follow suit.
I love Cassel. He was great last year, and still has a chance to be good this year if the team can pick it up. But he’s not the long term solution.
Yeah, I'm real excited about Stanzi
I’m personally pulling for him to start next year.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Not me, I hope we have a 1st round QB.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
love the post, wustl
And I think you’re right. My question at this point is, with the way the season is going, should we go ahead and give stanzi playing time? As much as I love this team, with JC, Berry, and Moeaki out for the season, I don’t think we’re pushing for a playoff berth, so….we know what we have in Cassel….should we try out Stanzi then? What does everyone think?
by Flower_Power on Sep 18, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
No, as much as I love Stanzi, we need to start Cassel for a while.
No matter how bad it looks, they are selling a product and it is their duty to put the best possible team on the field now. If we are eliminated from the playoffs, then we can start Stanzi. The most important trait for any competitor is to never give up. And who knows, we’re only one game back, there’s a small chance we do manage to make the playoffs. A very small chance, but as long as we have a chance we can’t give up.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:36 PM CDT up reply actions 5 recs
this ^^^ x a million
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Bad choice of words on my part.
I meant the season on the whole, not immediately. Apologies.
by Flower_Power on Sep 18, 2011 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions
At what point
do you consider playing Matt Cassel ’ not giving up" I mean he can’t or won’t throw deep, even if they are down big. He teammates seem ( and I stress seem I don’t know ) to not appreciate his ‘talents". Isn’t playing him “giving up” as much as not changing coaches?
by Spot the looney on Sep 18, 2011 9:50 PM CDT up reply actions
No, because Cassel is, right now, the best QB on the team.
If Cassel continues this performance for a couple more games then, yes, he should be replaced by Stanzi. I just don’t think he’ll be that bad for the foreseeable future. But you never know.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:53 PM CDT up reply actions
You honestly think the best product is Cassel at QB?
Or that we’re somehow giving up by letting Stanzi play?
I call shenanigans
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 2:45 AM CDT up reply actions
later in the season
would be fine
agree we know what we got with Cassel
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
As much as I hope Stanzi works out I am not counting on it.
He went in the 5th round for a reason. How many 5th round QB’s are starting in the NFL right now (the answer is 0).
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
you mean not counting Brady who was a 7th rounder, huh?
poof! there goes that theory, huh
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Sigh.
Come on, really?
All we have to do is find a once-and-a-lifetime draft steal.
by craig in calgary on Sep 18, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
fair enough
point is, it happens …
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
How many 5th round QB's can we get for one 1st round QB?
Do we have a better chance with 10 5th rounders or 1 1st rounder? Would that 1st rounder be better spent on a position with more certainty?
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions
interesting
an open 4-5-6-7 QB duel might net something
look at Cam Newton (great QB, I learned my lesson)
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Tim Tebow
the Broncos didn’t
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
He isn't a QB...
As of today, he is now a WR.
Live Adventure!
by MountainManMike on Sep 19, 2011 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions
No, QB is the most important position in the NFL, and its not even close. Worth the risk IMO.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
But that's why high first rounders are so valuable.
More teams than us are looking for that great QB of the future. Depending on how desperate they are, we could get a ton of draft picks for one that could land Luck. And if there’s a significant chance Luck might flop, you take those picks.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions
if there's ANY chance he might flop, you take those other picks
in a heartbeat
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
If there is a chance he can be elite, you make the pick.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Blackledge didn’t work out. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t still try to draft and develop a QB. There’s a chance the picks you get by trading the #1 overall don’t work out either. Should we just not bother to show up on draft day?
Yeah, if we had an opportunity to choose Luck and we passed on it
I’d quite being a Chiefs fan.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions
there is no such thing as certainty
Is there any position that a first round pick can be spent on that we need more than QB? Also, the track record on our first round draft picks hasn’t been the greatest recently. Sure we got Berry but Dorsey and Jackson haven’t really got there yet.
Listen I’m not a big first round QB guy but I just think that its time.
I saw Cassel try to
display leadership( you know “come on guys we are better”) in today’s game. I mean in particular the throw Urban let go between his hands for an INT. It appeared none was paying attention to him . I mean literally no one was looking at him. Cassel wants to lead. But the team knows he is a problem not an answer.
by Spot the looney on Sep 18, 2011 9:19 PM CDT reply actions
then the Chiefs have no hope
if your QB is getting ignored then it is over :)
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions
That throw was so off target
Everyone need ignore him
by Spot the looney on Sep 18, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions
ya that one was all on him
The bowe one wasn’t his fault though. Still 3 int’s and a fumble is still horrible.
ok, explain to me .... Urban let's a pass go right thru his hands, it gets picked off, but Cassel is "the problem" ...
the throw Urban let go between his hands for an INT
and maybe if people are ignoring him when he’s trying to get them pumped up THEY’RE the ones who need to go …
just a thought
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I still think the Offense was stunned
Like the British when the “Hood” blew up.
The Bismark is unsinkable and unstoppable
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah, like the Titanic
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Not an impossible catch, but it was definitely an inaccurate throw
The outcome of the play aside, an accurate throw would have allowed Urban another few yards upfield. Unfortunately, Cassel’s inaccuracy on that play would have been a catch and immediate fall due to the placement of the ball. Worst case: exactly what happened.
Bottom line: it was an inaccurate throw
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 9:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Pretty simple really
An accurate throw would have hit him in stride. An inaccurate throw put Urban in the position he was in, which was a MUCH more difficult catch. Should he have made it? Sure. Should the throw have been better? Absolutely. Again, I’m not concerned with the outcome (INT), I’m just done listening to defenses of Cassel’s inadequacies, his inaccuracy being one of the biggest
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 10:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
M. Cassel was consistently throwing it above guys
Or higher than he should in general. I wish this was the first good example of this, but its happened enough to question whether a guy behind him deserves a shot.
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Exactly
This isn’t the first game of Cassel being what he is. I guess we can all act accordingly with that, whether to make excuses or not. I am definitely not :-)
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 10:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
nobody is making excuses for horrible play
justification for gettinghim to begin with, yes … but not excuses
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Oh, I'm perfectly fine with getting him in 2009
But I think its time to realize it didn’t work out. Not a bad decision by Pioli at the time, just stop dragging it out hoping it might eventually work out
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 10:09 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
it worked out well enough last year
… yes? and nobody thought it would be like this now …
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
it was through his fingers not his hands and it was behind him
it was a full 3 feet from where it should have been, watch it again.
he sounds like a lil boy
screeming on the feild.i would look the other way to.i went to almost all of herm’s games and i dont remember getting beat this bad
Dollas and Sense
The deal is for $63 million, with $28 million guaranteed, according to a source. He’s going to make $40.5 million in the first three years of his contract. At least Clark paid Matt.
by Spot the looney on Sep 18, 2011 9:32 PM CDT reply actions
And it made sense, didn't it?
We haven’t been stressed for cap room until next off season, so it made perfect sense to front load his contract so we pay most of the money when it won’t hurt us, and very little of it when we need the room.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:33 PM CDT up reply actions
No arguement
from me I thought , hoped now wished that Matt Cassel was it. Only now I see that he is less than ordinary.
by Spot the looney on Sep 18, 2011 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions
impossible ... Clark is cheap, remember?
well, so I hear … Flowers and a few others might disagree, of course
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
would you rather
draft a possible franchise QB in the first round or a Tyson Jackson with the THIRD overall pick in the first round. Enough said.
The franchise QB.
But that’s not the question. You never know 100% who’s going to be the franchise QB, so it’s smart to trade a second for somebody who you’ve seen play in the NFL then gamble your whole franchise on one player.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions
If you think you need a QB at all
Lots of good QB’s running around the NFL, we thought when they came out we had one already or they got drafted before we had a chance at them
by Steve_Chiefs on Sep 18, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions
well, since I'd just managed to swing a trade to GET a QB, I'd rather do something to rebuild my horrible Defensive Line ...
… like, you know, draft a Defensive End
enough said, right?
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
He has lost the locker room, and the majority of the fans.
If other teams know that Cassel sucks (continue to stack the box), dont you think the players on this team know that. Not to mention that players are going to continue to get hurt trying to over compensate for the lack of ability at the QB position, both on offense (inaccurate throws and running into a stacked D) and defense (from being on the field all the time).
thank you for the "inside the locker room" report
glad you’ve been there to check it out for us
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Sep 18, 2011 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
New to posting but have been following for while.
I have to completely disagree with you about Cassel. Pioli and Haley could have rode brokey Croyle or found a cheaper option at QB… That had more starting experience than Cassel.
Then they could have drafted a QB of the future. But no… Pioli chose to trade for a guy who he hand picked while in New England. Don’t get me wrong…. I have nothing against the guy. But he is what he is… A career backup nothing more.
Im not sure what the topic of this post was
Not to knock your style or anything, I just don’t understand bringing up a decision two years ago to bring in Cassel. I don’t think anyone can rightfully say it was a bad decision at the time, but its time to move on. This decision has not panned out as everyone hoped, so no hard feelings, forget about it, and on to the next decision of our next franchise QB, lets hope he does pan out, be it Stanzi or our high draft pick. And pretty please no one talk about how draft picks aren’t a sure thing; the obviousness of the totality of drafting a QB is crystal clear
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 9:45 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
as opposed to your last line ...
the obviousness of the totality of drafting a QB is crystal clear
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The sentence is clear as mud
The risk and reward of drafting a QB high: painfully obvious
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
you're painful
I’m obvious
… or is it the other way around?
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Both
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Sep 18, 2011 10:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, I can understand how the point can be confusing.
I’m not saying we should stand behind Cassel no matter what. I’m not even excusing his performance so far this season. All I’m arguing is that the decision to bring him in was a good one. In other words, hoping to replace Cassel isn’t too bad of an argument, it’s just saying Pioli made a mistake in getting him would be wrong. I hope that clears it up.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions
At the time it made sense
And now it makes sense to look for his successor. Look at Palko… he’s not the next starter. Stanzi? Haven’t seen enough of him to tell. Gotta have both talent and depth… we have neither.
but again, think of it this way ... going into this season, based on what we saw a year ago ... entire team-wise ...
… how many of us figured it would be THIS bad (likely nobody) and how many figured Stanzi was a good pick as a developmental QB to maybe be ready in a year or two? (likely a majority)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Based on what we saw in the playoff loss
I think more of us saw it coming than will admit. More than just Cassel got exposed against the Ravens.
the whole team ...
that said, we added parts … apparantly not the right parts, or enough, or both
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
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hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Agree
I just think that we need to be careful if we have the first pick. Teams will be willing to give us almost anything we want for it, so if we use it we better be damn sure he’s the real deal.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Too bad this post didn't address the issue of benching Cassel
Maybe it was my high expectations, but I didn’t get anything out of this.
Why keep three quarterbacks if you are only going to play one, no matter what?
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
Yeah, whether or not to bench Cassel is outside my area of expertise.
If he keeps playing like this, I wouldn’t be upset if we played Stanzi.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions
if he keeps playing like this I wouldn't be upset if we re-signed Brodie Croyle ;-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
come on now....
we all know thigpen gives us a better chance to win!
fair enough ... Call Chan immediately
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
and get fred jackson while you are at it
good god that guy can play
and Nate Burleson would be nice ...
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"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
And if you didn't get anything out of this that's fine.
I’m simply trying to explain why trading for Cassel was a good idea, regardless of current events. If you already agree with that you probably won’t get much out of it.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I see.
I think Cassel makes a great team player, and makes a nice addition to this team. Just not as the starter.
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions
did you feel that way back when we traded for him?
Not looking at today, but the day we received Cassel and Vrabel for a 2nd rounder, were you happy
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions
Would me answering that really do much?
I fail to see the relevance, much like the timing of this post, its a day late and a dollar short. I’m not sure what’s trying to be sold. And I’m happy all the time.
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
I could have seen this post go a number of different ways...
here’s and example…
"Why Cassel Makes Sense:
Because if we continue to play him, and open up the play book. He will proved a good enough return that next year we can trade him for a 4th round pick…"
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
And that also makes it pretty clear what is trying to be discussed.
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
no
but it is what he was trying to say… At the time it seemed like a great trade. Now since it isnt working out, people are acting as if Haley and Pioli made a bad pick-up. But I agree, it does nothing to us now, except maybe understand that things dont always work out as we planned and it may not be anybodies fault
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
you mean we CAN'T blame you?
now I’m really disappointed …
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Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
you can blame me
I have had years and years of bad luck…The chiefs probably will never get a Super Bowl with me being a fan…sorry
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions
A witch, a witch!
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions
no, use water ...
what? it worked for Dorothy!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Burn her anyway!
Gaahahaha!
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions
it's a shoe ...
… it’s a SIGN!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Dude...its a line in a movie....
Follow the link if you don’t believe me.
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Its ok buddy
I believe you…just giving you shit
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:23 PM CDT up reply actions
you should be sorry, Murphy
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
more to the point, I suppose ... a year ago were we happy with Cassel? or at least content?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
i was content
near the end of the year i was worried he wasn’t going to be able to do enough to get us into the playoffs but we ended up backing in. Problem is whatever he was (or wasn’t) doing at the end of the year carried over to this year. Watch the last couple games last year then compare. Not as bad, but bad.
afreed and understood
so, now what … just toss Stanzi out there to the wolves? sink or swim time? or, change gameplans somehow and pray for the best?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
No...send Palko and let the wolves eat him first
then when they are all fat and tired, let stanzi in the gates
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
good point
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
We only have Stanzi?
I could have sworn there was another guy with an unpronouncable name, in there somewhere.
"The essence of greatness is the perception that virtue is enough." -RWE
"To want to prohibit a man from error is to forbid him to fulfill his own existence..."
-Simone de Beauvoir
by KC Conundrum on Sep 18, 2011 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Gutierrez who was here last year, maybe
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
nah just play Cassel
hes the best the chance to win
Seriously
Lets start Cassel. We give him a fair shake at another season so he doesnt blast us like floyd mayweather and we get a good shot at landing luck, leading to years of superbowl contention. Its a win-win.
automatic huh
get Luck get a SB? yawn
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions
just guaranteed donchaknow ... bet the house on it
just make sure it’s someone else’s house
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Well
thats why i said contention. Maybe you should read next time.
We get Charles, Moeaki, Siler, Miller, Berry all back for next year.
Get Luck throwing it to Bowe, Baldwin, Breaston, Moeaki, Charles, McCluster,… etc.
Run it down teams throats with Charles, McCluster, hopefully another back, with McClain as FB
Draft an O lineman in the second round with Asamoah, Hudson, Gaithers healthy (hopefully), Albert, Lilja as the core for our OL
That is one hell of an Offense, and our defense is going to be good next year with our young Corners, berry, hali, and etc… The D doesnt look good now, but once we have an explosive offensive opponents d wont be able to get off the field.
And as i said Superbowl Contention!!! As in be contenders for a SB annually like New England. Doesnt mean we’ll play in SB every year, just be good enough to always be CONTENDERS.
we were supposed to have an explosive offense THIS year ... and even w/o Moeaki (Pope can catch)
Asamoah has been less than impressive, Gaither … meh, not at all impressed with the guy … rather have Waters back
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
With Cassel at QB? Please tell me you're joking
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 2:51 AM CDT up reply actions
Ok sorry..your right
get Luck get automatic superbowl contention? Happy now? I love the painting of the picture you just typed, but easier said then done there tuff guy
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions
and Patriots
but one was a “for sure” and one wasnt… My point was, cant line up all your eggs in shapes of ducks next to baskets…..wait, WTF?
by TheScreenName on Sep 18, 2011 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Agree 100%
If he can bounce back and show he can win without Charles or Moeaki, then we know we have a good one. If not, we have that high draft pick and even if we trade it it’ll be valuable.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Last season Cassel went on a tear
starting the second half of the Denver debacle. Had a really nice stretch that carried him to the Pro Bowl. The game in San Diego magnified the importance of having a competent QB. I know hindsight is 20/20, but the way the team collapsed last season it should have been a red flag to Pioli. Now it’s obvious last year was the result of a soft schedule and smoke and mirrors. Just not enough pieces on the current roster for Cassel to truly be a winning QB. Sure he won 11 with the Pats… but we’re not the Pats. Excellent post BTW.
The problem is that QB is such an important position that there's not much he could have done.
We would have been forced to either trade up and spend all of our draft on it or trade a similar amount for a veteran. At that point the uncertainty just isn’t worth it, and simply putting more weapons around him and drafting a QB to groom was the right way to go. That way if Cassel continues to fail, we have Stanzi to try out, but now with the weapons we wouldn’t have had had we spent them on a different QB. It just sucks that those weapons are getting injured.
I wouldn’t say it was entirely due to an easy schedule. I always believed the Chiefs, had they had an average schedule, would have been 8-8. The problem this year is injuries to our top players and an ungodly amount of turnovers. Without those two factors, we’d almost certainly be 2-0 right now.
And thanks.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Factor in the smoke and mirrors
Knocking off San Diego on MNF instantly garnered other teams collective respect. Couldn’t have done it without all kinds of special teams help from SD. Then we beat a bad 49ers team like a drum. Charles was a beast, and really made the offense better because of it. Once teams focused on stopping Charles the offense was able to flow more smoothly. Teams forced Cassel make just enough plays to beat them. After that the koolaid flowed. We not only caught more than our fair share of breaks but also didn’t have the injury bug too bad. KC just isn’t as good as last year’s 10-6 record would indicate, and probably aren’t as bad as they’ve shown so far this year. Cassel was the right move when we got him, and I’d like to see him pull off a miracle this year. I just don’t see it happening with him this year.
I think that, without injuries, we're at least as good as that 10-6 record.
We had a far better offseason than people gave us credit for, and I thought that we had a good chance of winning the Super Bowl if we got a break or two. Even with an average QB, our defense should have dominated and we had enough weapons to make our offense above average. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.
When we lost Moeaki, I thought we had a chance for the playoffs as long as we had Berry. After we lost Berry, I thought we could be competitive as long as we had Charles. Now I just hope we can avoid the number one pick next year.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry
but you’re wrong. I’m going to be lazy and not even say why, but I will just say you’re wrong.
maybe next time be a little more lazy
and not even reply?
Snap the f*cking ball, Brodie.
twitter.com/scottbwalters
twitter.com/hailtothechiefs
by scottbwalters on Sep 19, 2011 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can't wait.
He makes about 600 million cents a year if I did the math right.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions
If I recall correctly...
Matt Cassel is a Free Agent after next season.
While I certainly don’t advocate bombing a season on purpose, it does appear that a last place finish is a distinct possibility. That being said, the Chiefs would be in prime position to make a run at Andrew Luck or Landry Jones.
That being the case, I would say that Matt Cassel DOES make sense for now. He has little to no trade value right now, and simply cutting him doesn’t make financial sense. Starting Ricky Stanzi around Week 8 (assuming our losing streak continues) would make sense to gauge what we have there. But if Stanzi doesn’t appear to be what we need, then I say hold on to Cassel for one more year as the starter, draft Luck or Jones, and start preparing for life after Cassel.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
We signed him for 6-years, so we have three more years after this.
I think holding on to Cassel makes sense unless we get into a situation like the Eagles had with Kolb. If we replaced Cassel with Stanzi next week and Stanzi tore it up, there would be no value in Cassel and he’d be cheap enough that he could be the backup. So even if he’s replaced we’ll keep him for the entire contract.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions
if we had another QB who "tore it up" we would cut Cassel because he costs to much to be a backup
We are paying him starting money and he needs to start. If we upgrade he is gone.
We were paying him starting money
but I distinctly remember when we traded for him thinking the contract was great. I was skeptical of Cassel from the start, so to me the fact that his salary dropped off after the first couple of years was a good idea. I thought that if Cassel fails, we can cut him without having a lot of dead money. So, if that’s right, he should be making enough that keeping him as a backup won’t hurt us in terms of cap space.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Sep 18, 2011 11:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Don't like Landry
He reminds me of Cassel way to much, deep ball accuracy issues and a bad pocket presence.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 2:54 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't like him much either
He doesn’t remind me of Cassel at all though. I just think when hes under pressure (which hasn’t been to often) he makes mistakes. Great arm though. He made some great passes in the FSU game.
He made some crappy deep ball passes
Either out of reach or short armed. He never has to prove his accuracy because the whole Oklahoma offense is designed for short passes which is why its not a great system for QBs entering the NFL, even Bradford had question marks for coming from Oklahoma.
And the under pressure but make mistakes thing stems from his lack of pocket presence, which is the same problem Cassel has.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Sep 19, 2011 3:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Cassel makes sense if you're a 15 yr old high school drop out smoking meth....
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Sep 19, 2011 12:00 AM CDT reply actions
I'm thinking we could get Carson Palmer on the cheap right now.
He’s not great but would be a step or two above present day Cassel.
Live Adventure!
by MountainManMike on Sep 19, 2011 1:09 AM CDT reply actions
i bet we could
But do we really want a guy who tried to whine his way out of a contract? It is the Bengals but it appears Andy Dalton may be good enough to overcome the franchises deficiencies.
Grow up Carson.
I've been on baord the replace-Cassel wagon for a good while now
But make no mistake about it; this team getting killed for 5 consecutive games has very little to do with Cassel. Brady himself would have still lost those games. He may have kept them close but this whole team is in a meltdown and Cassel is in the middle of the firestorm. I’m just wondering if Haley will survive this season as our coach… Contract year
Cassel does make sense for now,
but not the future. Experience has value and veterans such as Cassel bring that to the field.
Stanzi will have to wait for at least a season before being seriously considered for the starting job.
The team should draft a QB such as A. Luck, or any other high quality first round QB if they can get the chance in next years draft.
I agree that it's time we get a qb that can stretch the field.
And Stanzi may be that qb. I believe the best thing for a young, talented qb is to sit him until he learns the system. I think a lot of qb’s fail because they are thrown into the fire with no talent around them (which is why there are so many early 1st round busts in the league). 99% of qb’s can’t carry a team with no talent, but solid qbs with intangibles and big arms can succeed (no matter what round they were drafted). I believe we have enough play makers on offense that we can insert a young qb in and have them succeed. I’m hoping the Real American is that qb, but I would definitely not pass on drafting another qb in the first round if there is a quality qb sitting there. I think teams finally figured out that Cassel can’t realy stretch the field, which is why our WR’s have so much trouble seperating in short and intermediate routes. We need a big arm under center so safeties can’t play within 10-15 yards of the line of scrimmage when they know we are passing.
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