The State of the Chiefs: Grading Kansas City's Defensive Line
I know what you're thinking right now. What is going on with the whole Jonathan Baldwin/Thomas Jones locker room scuffle? Which is why I thought it would be appropriate to start talking about the Chiefs' Defensive Line.
Give the readers what they want, right?
Anyway, in my last piece, I talked at length about the Chiefs' Quarterback situation. I gave the Chiefs a generous grade of a B, but pointed out (clearly to strong agreement) that their backup Quarterback situation leaves a lot to be desired. On the Defensive Line, I'm going down a pretty similar path:
The Chiefs' Defensive Line Grade: B+
Chiefs' Offseason Grade: B
More after the jump.
I had a tough time grading this position, because there's so much that needs to happen to achieve a good grade, but those things are very possible. The good news is, at the very worst (injuries aside), the Chiefs probably have a pretty stable group of Defensive Linemen. They should have three players who know how to play the position.The main question is, how effective are the starting 3 going to be at playing their position? My guess is that the Chiefs will start the season with Tyson Jackson, Kelly Gregg, and Glenn Dorsey as their starting three. I know what to expect from Dorsey--he played pretty terrific last year and of the three, is probably going to come the closest to playing at a peak level. With Gregg, you expect stability. I don't know how much we can depend on him to be the kind of force he has been with Baltimore, but he's definitely going to be an upgrade over Ron Edwards. Jackson is a wild card. Let me start by saying he's not as bad as some people want him to be. He will likely never live up to the #3 pick used on him, but that shouldn't take away the fact that he should project to be a solid starter in 2012. He started to get a better feel for the position toward the end of last season. The third year is hopefully the year where he comes into his own.
I graded the Chiefs a little harshly on the Defensive Line for several reasons. First, it was a big mistake getting rid of Shaun Smith. He's getting overpaid in Tennessee right now, but the Chiefs could use quality depth, especially coming into a season where everyone's going to start off a little rusty and behind on their conditioning. Second, while you hate to second-guess a first round pick this early, you have to question if the Chiefs could have had a chance at Phil Taylor and missed. This is not a criticism of the Jonathan Baldwin pick; rather, this is questioning whether they passed on a Nose Tackle of the future (which I think is much more critical than a #2 Wide Receiver). The Jerell Powe pick was a phenomenal pick, but you question whether they waited too long to take their first shot at one. I'm also not sure how I feel about the decision to have Wallace Gilberry bulked up. I'd have to think that with that bulk, he could lose a little bit of speed, which was one of his stronger suits given the situations he typically played in. It seems like the Chiefs are trying to move him toward a more "every down" type role. The experiment could work, but my sense is he was better suited to be an effective role player.
Still, the Chiefs made some positive moves that could easily turn that grade from a B- to an A-. Kelly Gregg was a smart pickup. I would have picked up Aubrayo Franklin to get more long-term stability at the position, but I understand Pioli's explanation that Franklin isn't well suited to play 2-gap. Perhaps that was the reason he passed on Taylor as well. Jerell Powe was a complete steal and I like what I'm seeing from him so far.
I don't know. Maybe I graded a bit harshly, because I like the Chiefs' starting 3. But just as a Left Tackle heavily skews an Offensive Line evaluation, so too does a Nose Tackle skew a Defensive Line evaluation. For three years, Scott Pioli has surprisingly shown little urgency to upgrade the position, even though there were clear cries for help. Maybe Ron Edwards wasn't a liability, but he clearly wasn't a reliable anchor. And it couldn't have helped that he was asked to play a taxing position all by himself. During that span, the Chiefs clearly whiffed by passing on B.J. Raji in order to draft Tyson Jackson. And in the 2009 and 2010 drafts, the best move they can claim was that they picked up one of the Packers' table scraps.
And that has put the Chiefs in a very anxious situation at the most critical position on the field. Today, they have to rely on a 35-year old to anchor the line. Tomorrow, they have to hope that a 6th round pick develops fast enough that he can take the majority of snaps probably within 1-2 years. And if Powe flashes nothing in 2011, then the Chiefs are sent into a scramble yet again in 2012. You hate to blame someone today for sins of the past, but in year 3, the Chiefs should have already had 2 or 3 relatively high profile guys competing for a long-term starting job at Nose Tackle. If all 3 failed, that's fine. At least they tried. I'd be okay with the Powe pick except that the Chiefs need him to be a franchise guy... immediately.
So yeah, the Chiefs will be fine at Defensive Line today, but keep a close eye on Powe and Toribio. If they perform well, the grade easily swings to an A. But if they don't show major progress toward being a long-term franchise option by the end of the season, then the Chiefs' grade of a "B" is probably a little bit high in my book.
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Rec'd for a good article
I know I’m probably not in the majority on this by any stretch, but I think people are going to be very pleasantly surprised by Kelly Gregg. I think a lot of people are underestimating him due to not having seen much of him first hand, his age – or both.
I know it’s hard to take much of anything out of preseason – but just from focusing in on individual matchups, it hurts me to say it because I love the guy, but Dorsey looks like the least of our D Line right now. TJax is showing signs of great improvement, and Kelly Gregg looks like Kelly Gregg, which is pretty cool. Hopefully it’s nothing more than conditioning after the lockout caused a lot of guys to be sluggish, and Dominant Dorsey will go back to playing like he was last year. Which, right now, I’m pretty confident he will.
Still, hate to see him look a little sluggish and get directed around by the O Line at times.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
It could be that injury Dorsey got earlier in training camp too
by Full Metal Jayhawk on Aug 29, 2011 1:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I'm hoping that's all it is.
Guy’s come too far to start falling off. Dings can heal up.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
I have to say
Powe looks every bit the part so far. Dunno about Toribio, but Powe has been an absolute beast. Great hustle, and he’s got some OK speed for a big guy too.
My only real problem with this article is this line:
More after the jump.
Man, don’t say the j-word around here right now. So many Chiefs fan are toeing the ledge right now, could set off a chain reaction!
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
by TRSChief on Aug 29, 2011 9:22 AM CDT reply actions 5 recs
The lockout is over, I really dont think there is a reason for Chiefs fans to be so on edge (literally and figuratively).
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Aug 29, 2011 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions
Haven't you seen the comments and posts about how we're doomed, we can write off the season, scrap the roster, etc?
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
Oh I've seen them dont worry.
I’ve seen people hopeing we collapse this season in order to drafty Andrew Luck. I stay away from most in game threads now, post game threads aren’t as terrible but still pretty bad.
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Aug 29, 2011 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions
People can't let go of previous years when the Chiefs were bad and might be in a position to draft Luck
I think it is a reflex.
The Chiefs aren’t going to be any where near Luck… but Luck could tank the season and fall to the Chiefs. I think Luck falling is likely without Harbaugh. After all it is Stanford, and they are usually a perennially mediocre football team.
Who knows?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
heh, nice zinger, TRS ... had to "jump in" and green it
Man, don’t say the j-word around here right now. So many Chiefs fan are toeing the ledge right now, could set off a chain reaction!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Excellent read Jon
I’m excited to see what happens with T-jax this year, and have a good feeling about Gregg. I agree getting rid of Smith seems like a hasty decision considering our NT depth, but that is what it is. At this point the regular season can’t come fast enough.
by Eastcoastransplant on Aug 29, 2011 9:25 AM CDT reply actions
Still wondering why people keep referring to it as us getting rid of Smith
By all accounts we tried to re-sign him.
The Titans could just offer him a lot more in terms of length of contract and a starting spot. We didn’t have the spot for him that they did.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
I agree
I think its clear that we aren’t the type of team to overpay for a player
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Aug 29, 2011 9:29 AM CDT up reply actions
Why exactly couldn't we at least match the Titans length and price on his contract?
He was a ‘starter’ last year for us, and I would imagine would’ve been on the field for roughly the same # of snaps this year.
With TJax healed up, I think you're pretty far off base on the # of snaps, tbh.
Plus DE is one of the places we’re considered to be pretty deep right now. I like Smith a lot, but at NT he’s kind of a shaky stopgap at best. Gregg and Powe are more suited for the position.
So we could, at best, offer him rotational snaps at DE – a position where we have younger talent developing behind the starters who have potentially a higher ceiling.
I wish we still had the guy, mainly because I just like the attitude he brought to the line. But even if we matched the dollar amount, it’d make no sense for us to give him as long of a contract that TN offered, and he’d still not be a shoo-in to start like he is for the Titans.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
I would guess
You and I have far different expectations for TJax.
I was at the game Fri and was hoping that when I watched the DVR I would see something different, but last night when I got to watch it…nope, I didn’t. I thought he was pretty lackluster.
Bottomline, Smith was a better player than TJax last year. Will he be this year? I have no idea, but if I had to bet, I would say yes.
Also, it has been made very clear that Gregg is going to have his snaps limited to stay ‘fresh’ for 16 games. So, I think Smith could’ve seen 30-40% of the snaps at NT and a similar % of the snaps at DE. That equates to a ‘starting’ player in terms of # of snaps.
Now, you make a decent point about young developing players. I have to ask then, why we did try and sign Smith? By all accounts we did, we just didn’t fork out enough $. Considering how little $ we have spent this offseason, Smith specifically and #2QB are the two areas where I think we should’ve invested more.
Also, if you are choosing to develop younger players at the expense of playing (or signing) better players, then you are essentially playing for the future more than this season. It is possible this is Pioli’s plan (and I completely would get that argument) it just wouldn’t be my plan coming off a Div win.
I think the Titans overpaid for Smith and we aren't the type of team that overpays for players
Even if we want him
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Aug 29, 2011 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
I would have liked to have Shaun Smith back, he fired up the defense.
That is a quality the Chiefs need… It was nice to see Tyson Jackson try and do that against the Rams.
Leaders leave, others step up a lead anew.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ditto on wanting him back
Hopefully we dont regret that this year. Heck, maybe Gregg can bring some of that special charm that Smith was known for.
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
by nateforchiefs on Aug 29, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that assessment.
You should only be willing to over-pay for great players, not good ones. He was good, not great.
Less than 2.5 mil per year for a DL...
That whether he is labeled the starter or not, plays starter snaps, isn’t overpaying.
Also, I’m sure it wasn’t all guaranteed, if our young players that everyone is so excited about pan out, then we could’ve cut him after this season.
We’re not even in the ballpark of the Cap for this year, there was no reason at that price not to bring him back.
I'd rather have Powe getting those 30% of NT snaps so he can develop, honestly
As for why did we try to sign him since we have younger players – you’re looking at it in black or white. There are tons of variables. You want good football players on your team. Shaun did well but not spectacularly for us. It’s reasonable to have a threshold for what you’ll offer someone in regards to money and playing time.
We didn’t miss on signing Smith because the front office is cheap. For what our FO is developing, it makes no sense to offer a 3 year $7.25m contract to a guy who will be rotational at best. We’re deep at DE already, and I’d way rather see Powe taking NT snaps than Smith so he can start acclimating to the game at the pro level.
There’s a threshold that GM’s have for what role they see a player being in, and they offer a contract that fits in that threshold. And TN’s contract very likely exceeds that threshold in not just dollars, but years. Plus knowing he can start in TN, if he thinks he can perform at an even higher level while starting, he may be able to get one more contract in his career. Playing backup / rotational guy and possibly even getting usurped by our younger developing guys, his chance at another contract gets shot down.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
A lot of things we just don't agree on...
We’re deep at DE already
No, deep is when you have more than one starting caliber (on a good defense) player at a position. I’m not sure we have one starting caliber player (again, on a good D) at LDE. We certainly don’t have 2. A guy like Allen Bailey I’m intrigued by long-term, but don’t want to rely on him at all right now.
Shaun did well but not spectacularly for us.
Who was our 2nd best DL last year? Just curious who you would pick.
it makes no sense to offer a 3 year $7.25m contract to a guy who will be rotational at best.
It’s the NFL, years are almost a complete non-issue on a contract this size. I couldn’t find how much of that 7.25 is guaranteed, but I doubt it’s more than the first year salary. You could cut him after this season if our depth that you think is such a sure thing turns into guys that are ready for lots of snaps. For this season, we are not even in the vicinity of the salary cap. And we won’t be this year, regardless of how many of our guys we re-sign.
You're right, I guess we just don't agree.
Since you’re saying Dorsey is our only starting quality DE.
I say Dorsey and Tjax both are, and Gilberry is pushing to become a more complete player than just a pass rush specialist. Plus Bailey I think can develop well, and will have time to do it with Gilberry holding it down in front of him. And possibly Gales is in the mix.
Gordon and Bair are both on the bubble, and even they’ve both looked pretty serviceable – granted just against 3rd / 4th stringers.
Plus you also have to consider – Smith may just prefer to play LDT in a 4-3 than a 2 gap 3-4 position. I think he can thrive well being able to shoot one gap rather than having to maintain two. He may think so as well.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
I think Gilberry could maybe start at RDE
I don’t know if he could handle the beating of a full season, but I think he has the talent to.
We have to start players on both sides at DE. They aren’t the same position. Smith played a lot of snaps at LDE, which is one of the primary reasons I wanted him back. AP tends to forget that he played a lot of snaps over TJax even when TJax was healthy.
At this point, anyone that says they have seen enough of TJax to feel confident that he is the answer as a high quality LDE is lying to themselves. If you hope he can turn into one, that’s fine, I do too, but other than occasional flashes he certainly hasn’t proved it. We all hope this is the year.
Bailey they want on the left side. Again, I like him, I’m just not ready to have to rely on him, and I think they’ll have to if TJax isn’t getting it done or gets hurt.
Gordon and Bair…I don’t consider in the discussion whatsoever. Doubt either makes the team.
Gales I think can be a decent backup.
You never answered the question, who was our 2nd best DL last year?
Since you're so hung up on an answer to a question that doesn't matter
You never answered the question, who was our 2nd best DL last year?
Depending on which game, since nobody but Dorsey was really consistent, even our beloved Shaun Smith:
First half of the season, more often than not, Edwards. Some weeks Smith edged him out.
As the season wore on and Edwards wore out, easily Smith since Jax was still injured, and then slowly transitioning back from the injury – but by his reduced lateral agility, still not recovered from the injury.
AP tends to forget that even though Jax was activated after coming back from the injury, he wasn’t really anywhere near 100% – we just had nobody for legit depth for LDE in his absence. So a 75% TJax was still better than Gales or ??? to try to spell Smith.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
I'm not hung up at all on it
You we’re just making the point that he’s not worth the $ Tenn is paying him to us, and based on his play last season, as the 2nd best DL on the team, he was easily worth that last year, and based on what his playing time would be, even IF somehow there are no injuries to Tjax or Gregg, he would easily warrant 70% of the snaps.
Glad you know that TJax was 75% healthy during the entire 2nd half. What other mysteries have you unlocked?
Also should point something else out. I don’t think S. Smith is that great. I just think he’s solid.
I also think there is no excuse for a team so ridiculously under the cap to not bring back a guy who would get as much PT as he would, that wanted to be here, at a contract that would make no financial impact on our plans for this season or beyond.
If you couldn't tell TJax still had very little lateral agility when they were trying to ease him back in, I don't know what to tell you
And I guess we’re just at an impasse if you still think for some reason Smith would want to come back and play rotational guy in a 3-4 on a team that’s got people nipping at his heals rather than go start at LDT in a one gap system where there’s no real threat to take his job in the near future.
So it is what it is I guess.
Not sure why you think it was 100% on KC and that Shaun Smith had no say in where he went to go sign and which situation he thought was best for him.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
by TRSChief on Aug 29, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
*nipping at his heels, not heals.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
He said several times in the offseason he wanted to come back
On twitter, specifically.
He left b/c they paid him more. That’s what players do. It’s what I would do. No, I don’t blame him, and yes I do blame KC 100% for not matching the TN offer.
If we were even in the vicinity of the cap, I would feel differently.
Of course he said that during the season
During the season, he wasn’t presented with an opportunity to be a shoo-in starter at 4-3 LDT in a one gap system for the Titans.
Things change.
I live in Nashville, I see training camp reports and practice reports every day. The guy is having a blast and he’s happy to be here.
If you don’t want to believe that KC 2010 was a good situation for Smith, but 2011 isn’t quite the same, and that TN 2011 is a better situation for him – well alright. Don’t. Blame it all on Haley or Pioli or Hunt or Alfred E. Newman if you really want.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
by TRSChief on Aug 29, 2011 12:48 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
?
He said it this offseason, several times.
I’m not saying Tenn is a bad situation or that it’s a worse situation than KC.
I’m saying that presented with the same offer that Tenn gave him, he would’ve come back to KC.
You disagree?
Sure.
The TN situation in all likelihood wasn’t on the table.
And KC couldn’t present him with the same offer, which is being a shoo-in to start. Plus Shaun gap shoots better than he pushes double teams. It’s a better system for him, and he can possibly earn an even bigger contract playing in it.
So it’s kind of a fictional / hypothetical you’re offering up, as it would be impossible to offer Smith the exact same offer.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
Not fictional or hypothetical
I’m talking about dollars. They were negotiating with Smith the same week he signed in TN.
If they had offered to match the financial offer TN was making, he’d be a Chief.
You can disagree if you want, but his comments in the offseason made it pretty clear.
You now seem to want to argue that TN is a better situation for him in terms of his likelihood to excel on the field. I have not argued with you at all there. You could be right. It’s also pretty irrelevant to my point, that his preference was to come back here, and if we paid him what TN did, he would be here.
Above you said that ‘it makes no sense to offer a 3 year $7.25m contract to a guy…’ so have you changed your mind that it did make sense? If so, bravo!
I wonder if Smith's antics...
uh, rubbed people the wrong way? Frankly that cheap shot stuff never sat well with me.
Yeah having Torbino
As your only NT at 1 point is just scary this guy should be selling hot dogs not trying to eat double teams
Well I think Jackson is less of a wild card then we think
He isn’t up and down at all he’s more average or really really high see SD and Bal games. He doesn’t really have games where he get’s blown up other than maybe his first games back from what i’d say was a pretty bad sprain
I'm comfortable with Gregg as the starting NT for the season.
The folks over at Baltimore Beatdown were sad to see him and go and they said he was still playing at a high level last year. Yes he’s a year older but I don’t think his skills and talent will fall off a cliff either. We’ll have to see how Powe does this year but hopefully he’ll be ready to take over next year, physically he is probably ready but mentally he probably needs more work (not a dyslexic joke). After next year of course it would be wise to get another NT as a backup
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
you grade as a fan...
with rose-tinted glasses. Until Jackson pans out at DE, this line can’t get a B. I’d say C at best. I do believe they’re also trying Bailey at Jackson’s spot in case he doesn’t improve. Line has potential but we’ve been saying that for years. They can’t get a B until they’ve earned it. Edwards was better than people gave him credit for. It’ll be interesting to see what Gregg can do.
Can't believe it took this long
for Bailey’s name to even get mentioned in a D-line piece.
I don't even think Gordon will make the 53
Do you?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Hard to say.
By game performance, he should. Don’t get to see practice. He is in a bad situation as well. Jackson, Dorsey, Gilberry, Bailey will all be there. Don’t know if there is room, although Gilberry has been notably missing most of the time. No flashes or great play yet. There is always a surprise move or two. Could be Gordon for Gilberry.
I think Wallace Gilberry has value long term in a potential trade to a 4-3 team.
I don’t think they will cut a guy that produced last year with 7 sacks, but you never know. I just don’t see it, ever.
Gordon will be gone, but a phone call away.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions
didnt i hear
that taylor was god awful so far?
Just like novocaine. give it time; always works..
The greater the fall, the grander the ascention..
He looked good his last game. The first two he was pretty underwhelming.
Still, most D line take 2-3 years to incubate up to NFL level. Guys like Suh who can come in and immediately dominate are very very rare. Impossible to say one way or another on someone like Taylor at this point.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
Except for all Chiefs players...
If they don’t come in and make an immediate impact: automatic bust. Just like Berry in the first four games of last year and Tyson Jackson so far.
Only to the uninformed.
Most of us around here have said the same thing about Dorsey and TJax that I just said about Taylor. That’s just the nature of developing D Line. They’re not as plug-n-play as some positions.
And TJax wasn’t bad at all last year. Just hurt because a widebody rolled over into his knee. He’s looked good so far this preseason and is getting a lot of push – honestly looks better than Dorsey right now, partly because TJax looks good – and Dorsey looks a little sluggish, which has me scratching my head.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
Dorsey - dead legs.
I am surprised more don’t look sluggish, especially the big guys, without the off-season program. I think his conditioning will catch up and he will be fine.
T. Jackson got mauled on Friday night
Josh McDaniels targeted the left side of our line and fired at will. The great thing about playing McDaniels is he will show you your weaknesses. He ran right at Jackson, Studabaker and Arenas (playing for Flowers). The Chiefs were schemed and it will be interesting to see if other teams follow this game plan.
I wouldn't say mauled.
He was certainly not as inspiring as others saw. I watched a very stiff and slow DE that doesn’t get much push unless the play is to the other side. Studabaker was the one who really got his butt handed to him. He is not strong enough or quick enough to get off of blocks and make a play. You can’t have you weakest DE and weakest OLB on the same side. Offensive coordinators will do just what the Rams did.
I doubt the Rams were scemen'...
They, like most teams, prefer to run right. Look at our o-line.
From what I heard
Phil Taylor has been awful
by Supersexy on Aug 29, 2011 9:47 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
That's what I heard too
by His Royal Greatness on Aug 29, 2011 10:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Until we
Draft or trade for a franchise QB we will continue to see major problems on or defense….we need a guy who can atleast change field position and keep our d-lineman fresh
by clockinoncloud09 on Aug 29, 2011 9:50 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Oh, come on.
The Chiefs were smack dab in the middle of the league on time of possession last season at about 30:00 per game. You can’t really blame the QB for the team not converting on 3rd and short, which is partly why they brought in McClain. Plus, a quick scoring offense might keep the D on the field even longer. KC doesn’t have “major problems” on D and the QB certainly has nothing to do with what issues we do have.
Fans may forever think that BJ Raji was a better value pick then Tyson Jackson.
Who at the time, was considered a huge reach. While Tyson Jackson has been solid at times in Kansas City, he hasn’t gave many fans third overall pick hype.
Phenoms?
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Fans expect greatness from a pick that high, and rightfully so. A top five pick should be fulfilling… (see Eric Berry.) However, Tyson Jackson is going into his third year and he has looked pretty good thus far. In fact, I am really pleased overall by what I have seen by the entire front three. Plus Jerrell Powe as a sub, he looks awesome.
Though, it is the preseason and the preseason will mislead you, give them and “F” and they perform like an MVP player come time for game one. Given them an “A” and the team cuts them, and they are selling you fries at McDonalds six weeks later at the drive-thru. What do they say about the drive-thru Leo Getz?
Bottom line.
The Chiefs have looked strong up front, but I think the best thing for this team was that we moved on past Ron Edwards. Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson weren’t leaders on the line before (like they could’ve been), and even with the addition of Kelly Gregg, they have to show a little leadership during the games. That is the best thing for this line, and why I thought Ron Edwards needed to be replaced. Even though Gregg is a leader too, he is still a newcomer to this scheme, Dorsey and Jackson will grow with him.
Ideally, Jackson and Dorsey will run free more with Gregg and Powe so adequately pushing the pile. Though, I don’t expect that. I expect them to all eat up blockers while the LB’s go to town on the QB and ball carriers. The way Dorsey and Gregg can get away from blocks is phenomenal. Can Jackson do that to? I’d say maybe so, in his couple seasons he hasn’t missed very many tackles that have come his way (this has been proven.)
We shall see, but it won’t be this Friday against the defending champs. It will be on September 11th, 2011. That is when we will find out some of the truth about the Chiefs and be able to deliver them a quality grade for the first time in months.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 9:52 AM CDT reply actions
Good stuff Jon Yoon.
I was a little surprised at the size of the piece, they are usually pretty long… Life been pretty busy lately buddy?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions
nice Lethal Weapon reference.
I personally feel like these three need to lead as a unit, not individuals. They need to set the tone in games. I’m just not sure they can dominate the way they need to.
Preparing to welcome a future Chiefs fan in December... football season and fatherhood somehow go together.
by Falcon58 on Aug 29, 2011 10:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
What have they shown you in there limited playing time that makes you feel they won't be able to?
Have they looked bad in the preseason in your opinion?
I didn’t mean they didn’t need to lead together as a group. I meant that as long as Ron Edwards was around, they wouldn’t even really try to lead at all.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
well done as always, Jon ... nothing to "argue" with here IMO
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
up!
I gave you some love in my weekly post and you didn’t even comment :P
by Chiefsfan85 on Aug 29, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Ups is too celebrity...
He has a fantasy league empire to run now.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
That sucks :(
Hopefully, he remembers all us little people one day.
by Chiefsfan85 on Aug 29, 2011 10:19 AM CDT up reply actions
hey, you never email me anymore ...
the good Doctor is saddened
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
dude!
with everyone ELSE wanting a piece of me it’s hard to get around to EVERYONE (plus of course my very own post with all those goovy rec’s)
/grinning my ass off here
you know i luvya, Brother
and it’s required … /no homo
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
There is always something to argue Ups...
What is going on with the whole Jonathan Baldwin/Thomas Jones locker room scuffle?
With that said, is Mike Vrabel still a Chief or what?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions
heard a rumor that Vrabel was considering retirement ...
but I’m waiting for Definitive WOrd … you know, a post from Thorman
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Rec'd
Dorsey: Beast at eating blocks and run stopping. He doesn’t get the credit he deserves.
Gregg: Love the pick and will help but who knows what he really has left?
Jackson: I saw him up close in camp and you can tell he put in A LOT of work on the offseason. Haley also seems to think highly of him. Hopefully, he can put it together because honestly he hasn’t looked all that bad this preseason.
Gilberry: He is what he is. A depth player who will get his sacks in pass rushing situations.
Powe: Is going to be a beast.
The others on the line I’ll wait to give my full judgement.
If this team's DL is a B+
We’ll have a top 10 defense.
I don’t think it is, or we will, but I hope I’m wrong.
Why do you think it is bad?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions
because its too early to tell
Gregg is an upgrade over Edwards. Powe is probably an upgrade over Edwards. We lost Smith and have to hope that Bailey is better as a replacement. Jackson still hasn’t shown “it”. Until they prove it on the field, they are no better than last year’s dline, which gets maybe a C+ from me.
Preparing to welcome a future Chiefs fan in December... football season and fatherhood somehow go together.
by Falcon58 on Aug 29, 2011 10:22 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That is the problem, they can't show you on the field, it is the preseason.
So they are in a no win situation with gaining your approval until the season starts basically?
Tyson Jackson has shown flashes, and Glenn Dorsey is a beast. I think they have a good shot, if Gregg keeps playing like that it will free everything up. He grabs double teams with ease, and forces them up the field.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions
homer ;-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Most definitely
but it is logic as well
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Vulcan!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
you just jealous because the voices don't talk to you ...
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I don't think it's bad
B+ to me, would equate to a top 8 or so DL group in the NFL. I don’t think we’re very close to that.
I think we’re right about in the middle of the pack maybe slightly better. So probably a C+
that is understandable...
Are you seeing improvement?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions
From when?
From ‘09 to ’10, absolutely. We are going to battle with a different group for ’11 though…so I’m not sure.
This preseason? Not really. Although I’m not one that gets overly worried about preseason performances, even when the #1’s are out there.
fair enough...
I see the potential for improvement when looking at the big picture for 2011. However it is at a stand still until the Buffalo game is played, but I will not be shocked to see the Chiefs dominate that game up front.
Having good NT play makes a helluva a difference.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions
Again...
I am not at all convinced that Gregg is an upgrade over Edwards.
It depends on who you believe, but a lot of people following Baltimore were very glad to see him go.
I just see the difference in watching the guy play.
Edwards explode straight up when he played and handles one guy.
On almost every play Kelly Gregg explodes forward grabs two defenders and pushes them into the backfield. I have re-watched and re-watched. Kelly Gregg is much better, but it is just the preseason.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions
One thing I have zero doubt about
Is Kelly Gregg will be 10X more popular.
Yeah if he plays better...
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions
hater ;-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
rasict...
If Gregg plays better he will be popular, if he doesn’t he won’t be.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
front-runner!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I will say this people are well over praising Ty Jax
He has done NOTHING as of yet, never mind what he ALMOST did before getting hurt.
In the same right, people are under praising him as well.
He is what he is.
A guy who had a rough first year as a third overall pick, but made some flashes.
Then flashed really nice in preseason and the first game of his second season. Got hurt, and took awhile to come back (like McCluster.) When he was back on the field he still looked good but you could tell the injury was still effecting his play. He made some good plays in his time.
So you can call that NOTHING if you want to, but Tyson Jackson has a shot again this year, and if he can stay healthy. He might succeed and become a very reliable DE in the 3-4. Nothing in all of that says, write him off.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions
Underpraising?
Seriously? Everyone calls him a beast when the truth is his first 2 yrs has been terrible. Ya’ll can point to 2 games where he’s shown flashes and the rest he is completely invisible and getting eaten up by 1 blocker. If he was a DE on any other of the 31 teams, AP would have glossed him a bust a year and a half ago.
That all being said, this is his 3rd year which is when rookies usually make their biggest leap so I’m still hopeful that he’ll have a good year, but to say he has been anything but underwhelming in his first 2 yrs is wrong.
"He that hath a beard is more than a youth, and he that hath no beard is less than a man" - Bill Shakespeare
by craig in calgary on Aug 29, 2011 10:59 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I'm just saying some people calling him terrible and nothing is going overboard and getting ran over by the ship.
What I said above is exactly what happened. he got mad handled when he was a rookie at times and when he came back from an injury. Other than that, he looked adequate and showed flashes of being a very reliable 3-4 DE. He doesn’t miss tackles and he plays okay.
I think he will make the third year jump if he can stay healthy. If not, I will jump on the “OM MY GOD HE TIS TEH AFWFUL” train with you guys. Until then, I will look at the reality of the situation. He was an underwhelming choice at a high profile draft spot, who still has potential to be a great player. He will have every opportunity to do that this year, and Kelly Gregg should help his game play. He has a shot, I am just defending him for being called nothing.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions
The thing your forgeting
is how much TJ has made financially the last two years…if he was a project then why did he get drafted so high?? He’s a total bust to this point..no other way to rationalize it.
We were stuck w/ the #3 pick in what's turned out to be a weak draft year.
I’m sure they tried like hell to trade down, but who in their right mind would trade up for that pick? You’re guaranteed to spend too much money no matter who you pick there. Because the financial model in place at the time for rookie salaries was science fiction.
It’s silly to bring up salary there, especially when we’re miles away from the salary cap. It’s just a non-issue.
He was considered a safe pick and the best 3-4 DE in the draft. We were converting to the 3-4 and had, at the time, exactly zero 3-4 DE’s on the roster since Dorsey had never played the position. So best case scenario, we had one if someone was clairvoyant enough to see that Dorsey would pan out, which was a big unknown and a best case scenario.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
That's called a rationalization
Raji @ 9 Orakpo@13 crabtree@10 cushing@15 pettigrew@20 harvin@22 Clat matthews@26 Hakeem nicks@29 just to name few players where the money could have been better spent
At number third overall?
It is nice to go back with hindsight.
There are three names that people wanted here at AP
Monroe
Curry
Raji (though people hated his history, and said it was a stupid risk)
Crabtree was thrown out there, as was Orakpo (injury questions.) But mostly people wanted one of those three. Tyson wasn’t even an option. It was a questionable pick at the time.
Hindsight is funny, as if the teams knew your list of players.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I love the hindsight prophecies
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
yanoo, this is gonna sound funny, but ...
… I predict the USofA will land a man on the moon at SOME point in my lifetime …
THE MOON! seriously, think about that!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
alright, I have to draw the line somewhere
that’s just crazy talk, ups
if we were meant to fly we’d grow wings!
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
management has a lot of men...
making lots of money to evaluate talent and they get an entire year to do that also…can’t you see that’s my main complaint there’s no hindsight about it..you guys are just making excuses after the fact for an very very poor pick and yes every player on my list was on the managements list
What excuse did I make for Tyson Jackson?
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions
you can't make excuses for TJ
you’re trying rationalize that the chiefs did the best they could by drafting TJ everyone in football jaws dropped when we made that pathetic pick hey i’m rootin for him to turn around too, but just admit he’s been worthless that’s my argument management blew the pick no such thing as prophecy when it comes to drafting as you can see from the chiefs last 2 drafts..they’ve done it right
No I am not, I think Tyson Jackson was a worthless pick at the time. I was pissed.
I am just saying he can still be a good-great player, and you are calling him worthless, because you want to call him worthless. Good for you.
It isn’t hopeless yet. In fact Tyson Jackson is in a very good situation right now. If I had my way the Chiefs would have drafted Eugene Monroe or Curry. I never once said the Chiefs did a good job picking Tyson Jackson. Where did you get that info from?
He was a reach.
When you stepped into the convo, I was defending him because others think he has done nothing and that simply isn’t true. He has had obstacles and he was grossly overpaid, but he hasn’t done nothing.
And his future could still be very bright.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions
I never said it was a great pick, I hated the pick at the time.
But he is a Chief, and I can see that he is improving and needs to stay healthy. If he does that he could still turn into a great player. Which is more than can be said about a lot of players in the 2009 draft. Which was TRS’ point.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Well yes, hindsight is exactly what it is
My main complaint with the pick is that we weren’t able to trade down to 10-12 to get him, which is where he should have gone. But I seriously doubt anyone would’ve trade up in that draft for the salary required for a #3 pick under that financial model.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
except that's a highly uninformed comment to make regarding 2009 Pioli/Chiefs
Go back and check when Pioli and his staff was hired before the draft. Your whole statement is simply not applicable.
And, yes, your statements are all hindsight.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
by kabrink on Aug 29, 2011 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
tell it, PeeWee!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I think he will turn it around this year if he can stay healthy.
I didn’t like the pick, and yes I think he is grossly overpaid.
Does that mean he has done nothing? No…
Doing nothing means, you have done nothing. Tyson Jackson has done more than nothing, that is my only point. He has potential, and will most likely play well this season. In fact, if some one were to make a bet, and the there was a condition that threw the bet out if Jackson was injured. I would bet money, that he will play great this year, barring another injury.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions
I wonder what game you were watching Yoon
I’m amazed at a B+ grade? Geez you’re easy to please, but my money is on your just a fanatic that can’t criticize for fear of being ostracized by the AP faithful!! STL ran the ball down our throats!
Actually they ran it outside. A lot.
OLB’s being out of position a lot hurt that one. Especially on the SOLB side. The down the throat runs weren’t gaining a lot of real estate.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
Please Justin Houston, please surpass Studebaker very quickly...
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Aug 29, 2011 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm wondering if that this point it's just more of terminology of the D playbook
Houston has looked great in the base vanilla defense. But he’s got a lot of catching up to do, no doubt, between the lockout / short off-season plus being late getting his contract signed.
He probably doesn’t know the D playbook yet, would be my guess. And if there’s one thing Studie probably has him on, I’d guess it’s that.
Once Houston gets settled in well and knows the playcalls to the point of being second nature, I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t start him.
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
another incorrect argument
Yoon isn’t afraid to criticize. He has done it and taken a lot of criticism. He also comes back to argue his point. Just goes with the territory.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
I was actually surprised by Jon Yoon's grades
He is the anti-homer. There is no argument against that, read his blog if you don’t believe me, anyone?
It was a fair grade that I think he added to with the potential that he sees (I could be wrong.) If you are grading on potential then the grade is fair.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions
yo Thighs, are you serious?
the team had a minimum of C to C+ Dline last year and we’ve done nothing but upgrade it since … that in iitself merits a higher grade than whatever it was a year ago … you don’t have to watch a single play to look at the additions and know that improvement has been made
Little Stevie Wonder could see that more clearly than you …
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Too much speculation Jon
Jackson is a wild card. Let me start by saying he’s not as bad as some people want him to be. He will likely never live up to the #3 pick used on him
When we consider that normally defensive linemen start to live up to their draft status in year 3 and that Jackson missed so much of year 2 with injury, I think your choice of the term “likely” is unjustified.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
I hope they are a B+...
but now I’m wondering how many teams have a better line….we may be 3rd best in the west. At this point I’d say C, as in we’ll C.
the defensive line is not very good at all against the run on the right side mark it down now teams will be running right at the weakness TYSON JACKSON!!!! he got manhandled the time he was in there i am going to say this defensive front is a C- at best this will along with cassel and right tackle on offense is going to make the chiefs or break them . we have a pass rush but in stopping the run teams will run right on that right side at Jackson i hope they just decide to release him or put him in rushing the passer. i am starting to give up on him BIG TIME!!!!
Pass rushing may be the only time you'd want to sub in for TJax
Your comment confuses me. =/
The Chiefs and I have mutually agreed on this decision and although I look forward to continuing my career, I’ll always have a special place in my heart for Kansas City.
The Wallace Gilberry bulked up fallacy
You state that Gilberry “bulked up”. This was addressed long ago in a press conference. Gilberry came in within 2 lbs of his playing weight last year according to Haley. Although he acknowledged what reporters had seen. The weight had moved from his gut to muscle in his body. I don’t see how being the same weight and stronger will slow someone down.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
A lot of Gilberry's success was scheme on his seven sacks.
In the preseason there is no scheme, which makes the success harder to find.
Wallace Gilberry isn’t going anywhere. Thomas Jones guns or not.
meh...
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Aug 29, 2011 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
yes jackson is not a run stopper he just does not have it what i am saying is that in order for this football team gets to where it needs to be three areas has got to get better 1. the right side of the offensive line richardson he has got to play better2.matt cassel he just looks for one hot read during passing downs and he does not alternate his reads i’m sorry i just think cassel is nothing more than average a lot like trent dilfer 3.tyson jackson he has to get better against the run these three areas is the key for this team to succeed everything else is pretty good except those areas.that’s what i’m saying

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