I got 89 problems but a diva aint one
2011 NFl Draft- pick 26 Kansas City Chiefs- jon Baldwin (via thingsilikeontv)
This is the moment where the Chiefs shocked their fan base and took the one guy that most of AP was completely against. Very rarely did we see a mock draft fly in a positive fashion when we had Baldwin pegged with our number one draft pick. Phil Taylor, Akeem Ayers, and the numerous tackles were all popular picks.
We here at AP crucified the mock drafts that had us taking Baldwin because he wasn't part of "the right 53". We stressed how important Scott Pioli, our savior, our mob boss, our executive of the year winner, valued honesty, integrity,and loyalty over talent and wasted charisma.
So when Mr. Johnathan Baldwin was drafted in the first round by the Kansas City Chiefs, there was a brief pause filled with shock. We all knew that the second wide receiver position was wide open. Most of us didn't envision going reciever in the first round though, especially one that had the term "diva" written all over him.
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/4/28/2141187/jonathan-baldwin-nfl-draft-kansas-city-chiefs
Take a look through the comments. A lot of negativity here. And I can't really blame anyone for being disgruntled about the draft pick. We needed a nose tackle, we needed a right tackle, yeah yeah yeah, whatever, I'm not talking about that. In 2009, Baldwin was arrested for "allegedly" groping a female student. He was charged with misdemeanor indecent assault, harassment and disorderly conduct. The charges were eventually dropped, but none the less, not exactly a good look for an NFL prospect.
And what about when he threw his quarterback and head coach completely under the bus:
"Heck yeah I’m leaving. It can only get worse. They had me running a lot of deep routes [this year] and yards were hard to come by. I barely ran intermediate routes; it felt like they were purposely trying to disrupt my draft stock."
Yep. And we all know that Matt Cassel isn't exactly the most consistent quarterback in the NFL. But that's a discussion for another day, another thread (Please don't pull a Baldwin and call the bus driver into this fan post).
It seems though, after draft day, Johnathan Baldwin began to turn his persona around. He attended the Larry Fitzgerald camp and had been working out with one of the top two corner backs in the league in Darrelle Revis. Former wide recievers Michael Irvin and Cris Carter were brought in to help with some constructive criticism. The Chiefs current number one reciever, Dwayne Bowe, had attended this camp last offseason and lo and behold: He led the league in touchdowns and had the best year of his career.
Johnathan Baldwin also formed a chemistry with his probowl quarterback Matt Cassel. Not only on the field, but in the bedroom as well. Shortly after being drafted he flew into Kansas City and stayed with the offensive field general, learning the playbook and trying the best BBQ in the world. In addition to that, he was also active in the player only workouts during this terrible lockout season.
And let's not forget about the tornados that tore Joplin apart. Yeah, the Chiefs donated money and water bottles, but the first two people on scene? Quarterback Matt Cassel and ROOKIE wide reciever Johnathan Baldwin. Someone that was part of the Chiefs community for only a short amount of time, yet was one of the quickest people to lend a helping hand. Was it a good PR move? Course. But none the less, it was still more than most of us sitting here reading did.
So far in camp we've heard positive things. He's made some nice plays. Worked mainly with the threes and fours. He wasn't seen near the field during the Bucs game when the first team offense was out there, but his head coach is a guy that kept half of his starters buried on the depth chart until the season opener. We've all heard about his problem about beating the press, but if that's one of the only problems thus far in his game, that really isn't so bad is it? I mean he's not James Davis, who walks out on his team before the season even starts. Or Chris Johnson, who's holding out and isn't even present to welcome in the new coaching staff before the season begins.
All in all, most of us have believed in Pioli and Haley since they were first brought to Kansas City. The first season we all shared our doubts. Throughout the offseasons we've been slightly irritated about re-signing our own impact players before signing a big name out of house. We've debated Todd Haley's clock management and play calling from day one, and that isn't going to change anytime soon. None the less, looking at our Golden Boy's approval ratings, they seem to be pretty high. High enough for us to believe in them to do their jobs diligintly.
Let's take a look at a few quotes from our head coach about our "troubled" reciever:
"I feel really good about Jonathan," Haley continued. "Our scouts and everybody really felt good about this pick. We're getting a guy that, number one, has a great deal of ability, and number two, in an area where we need continued improvement and competition. To get him where we got him, and to be able to gain a pick in the process to use later on down the road, I'm really excited."
"You got a chance to be great now.There have been a few others that have played that position that have been alright. We are excited to make you a Kansas City Chief."
"It will make us harder to defend, hopefully. The name of the game is matchups and this hopefully will create some good matchups for us. It should make Dwayne Bowe better. It should make (quarterback) Matt Cassel better, it should make (tight end) Tony Moeaki better and it should make the running game better. That's the plan. Let's see if Jon can come in and do what we think he can do."
From Scott Pioli on draft day:
"You look at the full body of work. You have to rely on people and resources. We vetted this player and many other players that had situations in their past.
“You spend time with the player; you spend time with individuals you have relationships with, good relationships with, trusting relationships, and you talk to a lot of people. We talked to a lot of people on this, and we feel very confident.”
If that isn't enough, check out this conversation over the phone with Pioli, and owner Clark Hunt:
Scott Pioli:
Hey Jonathan, it's Scott Pioli.
You remember what we talked about right?
You excited about this?
Good.
Clark Hunt:
Hey Jonathan, how are you? Are you excited to be a Chief?
We're very excited to have you part of the team. I look forward to the opportunity to meet you.
Sounds to me like Pioli already addressed Baldwin's attitude and other alleged issues with him before even drafting him. Again, diligent work done by the Chiefs brass.
Today a report surfaced that our rookie wide reciever was going to miss the rest of the preseason due to an injury in his wrist. The injury was not football related, but due to a scuffle that broke out in the locker room with runningback Thomas Jones. As the day progressed more and more rumors leaked out, and though we don't know the full details, we can tell this much: There was a heated exchange with Baldwin and Jamaal Charles the day before, which seemingly carried over into the locker room the next day. Jones, one of Charles' closest friends on the team, somehow became apart of it. Again, we don't know what happened, and we probably never will.
Thomas Jones is considered a class act, a savvy veteran that is on his last few snaps. He provides leadership to the younger players, and can still provide a spark on the field. Many people forget however, that he's also been involved in altercations in the past with previous teammates. When he was with the Bears he reportedly punched teammate and fellow runningback Cedric Benson in the head. Before a playoff game with the Jets, he also reportedly beat up Kerry Rhodes, a defensive back, before being pulled off of him.
Neither one of these guys have clean records, and it's harsh to take sides so soon, when so little details are known.
While I know you didn't ask for my opinion, you're going to get it. Mainly because you're still reading this post. Johnathan Baldwin is 22 years old. That's a year and a half older than myself. Although we probably don't have many things in common, there's something that really stuck out to me: We're both working our tails off to get into Arrowhead stadium for the first time. Yeah, he's probably a bit arrogant. Yeah, he's probably got a chip on his shoulder that he fell to the bottom of the first round. Yeah, he probably does hate the direction that his college team went. But most professional athletes fit those characteristics.
Bottom line is, he's a kid that's had a lot on his plate over the last few years. He hasn't been involved in any gang or drug activity. He's made some inappropriate and rash decisions, but that doesn't make him a terrible person. He isn't a bust just yet. I know that some of the parents reading this right now would use this as a coaching situation, and I'm sure that's exactly what our staff is going to do. We don't know what happened with Thomas Jones or Jamaal Charles. We just know that since he's been drafted into our family, he's been doing everything right. Hold off on judgement until Coach Haley is finished with him. We all saw what he did what Dwayne Bowe.
And if I'm too young and naive to see that Baldwin is just a pure trouble maker, well then I guess I just wasted your time. I'll end this post with a quote by our current head coach, the diva killer, Todd Haley:
"Once they realize they're no longer allowed to act like a diva, then we work well together."
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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that's 99 Bottles ...
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
good post
I agree with a lot you say here. It is not a pretty situation but it doesn’t necessarily have to end badly. Because of Haley’s record I’ll maintain hope this will be worked out fine.
Incidentally, don’t read too much into Pioli’s “You remember what we talked about right?”. This is almost the identical conversation we heard him have with Berry who was and is considered a model citizen football player.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
I don't think there's a direct comparision between Berry in HS and College to Baldwin in HS and College
Berry has always been considered a model citizen, Baldwin has not …
not throwing the guy under the bus here, but can we stop making excuses for his behavior? everyone seems to want to rationalize and excuse poor attitude and decisions (he’s young, he’s disappointed his draft stock fell, he was accused of something really bad BUT the formal charges were dropped, excuse, excuse, excuse)
Baldwin is NOT Berry, not by any means … the only thing they have in common is both are on the Chiefs and both were picked 1st Round
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'm not making excuses for him ups
Im saying that were all jumping to conclusions either way. I’ve pointed out that he’s done bad things in his past, but since coming to Kansas city the guy hasn’t been making terrible decisions. We can’t jump down this rookies throat before knowing the facts.
by SoCalChief17 on Aug 20, 2011 1:31 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that he seemed to be doing well - talking the talk and walking the walk - up til now
but having fun at a pickup game with Cassel and the boys, and even helping in Joplin doing whatever he (and the team) actually did is far, far different than getting into camp and truly putting your nose to the grindstone day in and day out
now, if it was an issue with TJ all by itself that might be one thing … but we also have the reports (that I cannot imagine are just made up stuff) that there was an issue with Jamaal Charles as well … on top of the reports (again, I doubt that this is made up stuff) of more than one veteran on the team being unhappy with his work ethic (or lack of work ethic) and … bing bang boom … you have rather a good bit that points to “Baldwin is a spoiled brat diva making terrible decisions”
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Maybe they're just being extra hard on him now to force it out of him
So he can immediately gather a lot of evidence to beat into his head that that kind of behavior isn’t going to get him anywhere.
Imagine where Bowe could be now if he had been broken immediately.
I think there are parallels, but I think Bowe's personality is quite a bit different.
I think in Bowe’s case, he pretty much wanted to do good, but had nobody to tell him, in detail, what it took. The kind of effort it takes. Maybe a tendency to be soft, if nobody pushed him. But open to learn. And it sure looks like he’s figured out how to push himself. I can see him as a mentor to the younger guys, down the road. An affable guy, who’ll lead by example.
I see Baldwin as someone who will be able to call people out in the locker room, down the road. More in-your-face. Adds a mean streak to the WR group, which can be awesome. If you pair that with some early lessons on how to go about it (or not), hopefully it won’t just come out sounding/seeming like diva shit. The deal with a guy like him is you’re going to have problems if the other 10 guys aren’t getting it right. Then things can turn ugly, in a situation where both sides of the issue have strong points.
I think this happened with TO in Philly, when the OL couldn’t block it up well enough for McNabb to find him in the pattern. VERY frustrating from the WR’s POV, when he’s getting open, he’s NOT getting the ball, AND the offense is underperforming. Of course, we all know that TO dropped too many balls to point a finger at ANYbody, but…
would of ≠ would've
disappointed that his draft stock fell?
As far as I can remember, the first time I ever heard of the idea of him going in the first round was when the Chiefs picked him.
He’s delusional if he thought he was going higher. Or maybe I’m the one changing very recent history.
If you're not the first guy to reply (which is easy to tell), use the original commenter's name, and a little context.
Then folks know what you’re talking about.
would of ≠ would've
Thanks SoCal
There’s been way too much speculation on this fight, based on almost zero facts. People are quick to apply the diva label but we don’t have any real evidence of it.
therefore everything written and said in the last couple of days must be lies because YOU don't have "evidence"
is that what you’re saying?
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Are you okay?
I am usually more of a lurker than a poster, and while you were always (since I’ve been coming here) somewhat abrupt and scathing, lately you’ve been plain out attacking people who have a difference of opinion than you. You’ve been putting words in their mouth that they didn’t say or even insinuate.
heh, I'm fine, thanks for asking
I just get tired of seeing “the press and media” being dissed at every turn for either reporting what they see and/or hear, or for having an opinion of their own
as for what electriclight wrote (above) he says there’s no evidence of Baldwin being a diva, and yet there was every evidence of even before the draft (throwing his college coach under the bus for starters) and then the reports that the veterans on the team are unhappy with his “work ethic” (or lack of) in practice
someone has to defend the free press, but of course I’m a pinko commie tree-hugging hippie left-wing liberal nutjob …
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
glad to hear!
I roll my eyes at all the press hate. And I have to admit that there has been a lot of it lately.
I am usually neutral when it comes to the press. I tend to believe that they are trying to report correct stuff and do their best, but I also understand the distrust. I’ve done research looking through articles before and it can be interesting how the story changes. I’ve even experienced it first hand a couple times as well. The newspaper didn’t quite get all the facts right, but nobody in the know complained because it gave a positive slant to something that was not-so-positive. In that situation I don’t think the writer set out to slant the story on purpose, to me it looked like there were assumptions made that weren’t true.
About the Baldwin thing…well let me just say that I am a professional fence sitter and leave it at that.
Ups is quick to find the rhetorical question that puts you on shaky ground.
But it’s rhetoric, and not personal. He drew you out, and got you involved in the convo. I take that as a good.
would of ≠ would've
I don't think he's saying it's lies
There’s just rumors and speculation at this end. Were not sure what’s going on, and he’s not saying he doesn’t believe the reports, he’s just saying that we aren’t there and it’s all speculation.
by SoCalChief17 on Aug 20, 2011 1:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I can buy that AS FAR AS IT GOES ... but see, there's the thing
everyone seems pretty quick to forget that Baldwin had this “diva label” from college … more than a couple of incidents, and a few direct quotes as well
it looks to me like he’s saying precisely that he doesn’t believe the reports …
so are those reports really “speculation” … someone on the team tells Teicher (or Wright or whomeveer) that they see Baldwin acting like a diva and acting with a “sense of entitlement” or whatever … and that’s “speculation” … really? it is only if one truly believes the reporter “made it up out of thin air” which I highly doubt
these guys are doing their jobs, that’s all … I see no reason to doubt what they hear and see and report
and without good reporters and a free press, well … you can figure out the rest
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
True, but a lot of people are forgetting TJ has a history of fighting his teammates.
I mean it’s like Joel said, everyone has an opinion.
We all know how tight Arrowhead is now. We’re never going to find out what happened. The point of this post isn’t to point fingers, it’s just to open everyone’s eyes and show that both men have had issues in the past, even though they’ve been doing good things.
by SoCalChief17 on Aug 20, 2011 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions
well, Smith had the Quinn thing, but he turned out "ok" for us, that was pretty much a non-issue
on this, as I said … if it had been only TJ/JB separate from anything and everyone else, there might be merit to that as a Baldwin “defense” … but when you consider issues with JC … I mean come on, seriously … JC? and that other vets are making noises about him (Baldwin) as well … add it all up, on top of his previous (college) exploits and you pretty much a general picture of a kid with a sense of entitlement and special priviledge
he needs to get his head straight, and fast … hopefully he’ll have it screwed on right by the time his thumb heals
carry on
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
It's nice to hear a liberal complain about people with a sense of entitlement.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Aug 20, 2011 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Jones prob'ly has a knack for ending arguments.
My impression is he starts simmering when somebody’s acting like a brat, and slaps people down when he’s had enough.
would of ≠ would've
um... yeah, except for: the everything, the lies, and the evidence words you added
that’s pretty much what I said. Am I supposed to defend myself? okay…
Everything that’s been written and said includes lots of points of view.
Speculation is not the same as lying; I’m not sure why you capitalized YOU. Does that imply that YOU DO have the facts or that I am somehow expressing a personal entitlement to evidence?
I could have sworn I was just making a plea for not rushing to judgment. It’s odd that you are claiming your road rage here is now a defense of the free press. I am twice the commie tree-hugging hippie left-wing liberal nutjob than you will ever be. Actually, this snarling attack of my rather innocent post makes me feel like I’m debating a Tea-Partier.
by electriclight on Aug 20, 2011 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
No one has said there was anything physical about the Charles / Baldwin argument.
Jones may have thought he was “handling” the situation but getting our first round pick injured was NOT a positive result. It’s not likely that Baldwin picked a fight with Jones. If he was that dumb he would never have lived long enough to become our first round pick.
BTW. It took our starter Jones a while to see the field last night
nobody thought Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russel would be washouts, either
It’s not likely that Baldwin picked a fight with Jones. If he was that dumb he would never have lived long enough to become our first round pick
BTW, Jamaal Charles is our starter …
BTW. It took our starter Jones a while to see the field last night
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Missed it
BTW, Jamaal Charles is our starter …
When did that happen? That’s certainly newsworthy for this season.
by electriclight on Aug 20, 2011 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions
rumor has it he might even get touches this year ...
but that’s just a rumor, I’m thinking Battle gets most of the carries
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
There's the Ups we know and love
=P He just had to get some coffee in him.
by SoCalChief17 on Aug 20, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
Depth chart 2011 same as 2010
Why suddenly pretend you don’t know that Jones starts virtually every game?
And why change my point that anyone picking a fight with Jones must have a death wish into
nobody thought Ryan Leaf or JaMarcus Russel would be washouts, either?
I respect the quality of your intellect and so I will just surmise you are either off your game today or you are having some visceral reponse to what you think I am thinking rather than what I am actually writing. Peace and cheers!
by electriclight on Aug 20, 2011 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions
Ups was being pretty lighthearted with that last.
Everybody’s good, here. Water off a duck’s back is the way you want to view things that you might take personally, around here. Thick skin is the other half of keeping things civil around here. Folks are usually pretty mindful of not giving offense, but what makes this place work is not building on it when offense is given.
would of ≠ would've
By electriclight: Technically, Le'Ron McClain "started."
As for who’s the #1 RB and who’s fighting to keep #2, I think last season would indicate that Charles is the #1.
would of ≠ would've
different position
I can’t remember the last time Charles saw the field before Jones, but maybe you can.
by electriclight on Aug 20, 2011 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions
By electriclight: A thumb/wrist injury sounds more like the tall guy taking a swing at the short guy.
Either connecting with a rock-hard body, a bench, or a locker is my guess.
If TJ hurt him, I’d expect to hear about broken teeth or ribs.
would of ≠ would've
conjecture
I broke my finger extracting it from the grip of a thug much larger than I.
by electriclight on Aug 20, 2011 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
either way, whatever really happened and however it really went down ...
… and accepting as “given” the reports from yesterday … then I think it’s fair to say Baldwin got what he had comin’ to him
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Just be a diva scoring touchdowns and wont be any problems
and I dont think anyone was completely against the baldwin pick, just was more unexpected. I think this whole fight is starting to get blown outta wack.


























