Arguing with Glenn Dorsey trademongers
Here we are, back with another "Arguing With..." feature. And why? Well, I could tell you, but it's easier to just show you this NFP column. You've probably seen it by now. It's yet another incredibly insightful piece of journalism from the national media, which always really does its homework when it comes to our Chiefs. Or something.
(Quick disclaimer: I know some national media outlets do a great job. But let's face it, by and large you see the same type of stuff repeated over and over again, no matter how stupid. It's lazy and should be called out when it happens. Like now).
My personal favorite part of the article is in the comments, where the author implies (albeit indirectly) that we'd do well to get a 3rd with perhaps a 5th for Glenn Dorsey. That's when I said, "Enough is enough! It's time for a special edition of Arguing with Idiots."
You know the drill by now (well, you might not, but I like to pretend I'm a big deal and that you remember everything I've ever written). I'm going to present the usual arguments you'll run into from any standard know-it-all who thinks he knows something about our Chiefs. Then I'll show you the quick and easy answers that should render them speechless and full of the knowledge they are both wrong and stupid. Or at least one of the two.
Argument Number 1- "Glenn Dorsey isn't a fit in the 3-4! You need a guy who is taller to replace him!"
This argument is, how do you say it? Oh yeah, stupid. People can talk all they want about height and weight and the "ideal" guy, but the bottom line in the NFL is production. And Glenn Dorsey produces. Let's put it this way, who do you want backing you up in a fight: a guy who's built like a tank but has never thrown down a day in his life, or Manny Pacquiao (who, let's face it, LOOKS like a pansy but fights like a demon on steroids)? Think about it.
Argument Number 2- "You guys have players who can replace Dorsey in Allen Bailey and Wallace Gilberry! I mean, look at all of GIlberry's sacks! He MUST be better than Dorsey!"
I've heard this one, and it's just flat out wrong. First of all, we don't know WHAT we have in Bailey. You never, never, never count on rookies to replace proven, producing vets before you've seen what they can do on the field. And GIlberry? While I love him as a situational pass rusher, the man is weaker against the run than... I'm at a loss for an analogy. How about this: he's worse against the run than Mike Brown was against the pass in 2009. How's that? Need another one? If Gilberry's run defense was a country, it'd be France. Too mean towards France? OK... Gilberry is to rushing attacks what Clyde Drexler was to MJ in game 1 of the 1992 NBA Finals.
I think I've painted a pretty clear picture. Now I'll understate it; he's not the guy we want in on rushing downs (I probably could've just said that...)
Argument Number 3- "You say Dorsey produces, but I'm not seeing it! Only 51 solo tackles and 2 sacks? C'mon, you could be getting more from that position!"
This is commonly heard from those who misunderstand the 3-4. Thankfully, most here see through it. Do I wish Dorsey would rush the passer better, especially from the nickel? Sure. I wish everyone would! But here's how you know Dorsey is doing a good job at his PRIMARY JOB.
A) We didn't get KILLED by teams running at Tamba Hali last year. I love Tamba, and he's gotten better at this, but he's still subpar against the run. Yet somehow, some way, we didn't get run all over on that side (think the games Dorsey missed in 2009). The reason? Ol' Swamp Stomp himself.
B) Look at Hali's sack numbers. Then understand that the major job of a 3-4 DE is to draw blockers and give others one-on-one matchups. Then look at Hali's sack numbers again. I don't think we need to explain that any further.
C) Go take a look at the tackle stats for DE's. Go down a couple spots. Yeah, 51 solo tackles and 69 total tackles aren't suddenly looking subpar, are they? In fact, the only 3-4 DE who outstripped Dorsey in this area is universally-declared-stud Justin Smith. Whoops.
Argument Number 4- "OK fine, Dorsey's been decent for you. But he could flourish on another team!"
This argument is by far the most ridiculous one in my eyes. Why on earth should I care if Dorsey would be better for another team when he is already producing here? Why give him away for cheap (as the latest article suggests)?Because he might be a better player elsewhere?
By that argument, we should trade every single good player we've got. After all, wouldn't Jamaal Charles probably be better on a team with a more dominant O-line and a franchise QB to take the pressure off? Sure. Wouldn't Flowers be even better on a team like the Packers with their excellent pass rush? And hey, how GREAT would Berry be next to Ed Reed in that Ravens defense? While we're at it, Dwayne Bowe sure would produce more if he had Tom Brady throwing him the ball. Let's trade 'em all I say!
Or not. Because that's insane.
This would bug me less if it wasn't happening every year. But Good God, I'm getting sick of hearing it. Let me speak on behalf of all Chiefs fans: unless we get a great (and I do mean great) offer for Glenn Dorsey, he is going nowhere. He's too important to our defense to be giving away for stupid reasons. And if you want to know why, see above.
************Late addition ninja pic!!!!!!!!!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Ninjas???
"Reject a woman, and she will never let it go. One of the many defects of their kind. Also, weak arms."
-Dwight Schrute
I too am severely disappointed in the lack of ninjas.
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
Not all those who wander are lost. /////// I dont mind stealing bread.
by nateforchiefs on Jun 7, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed, ninja deficiency too much, I go commit Harakiri...
"Reject a woman, and she will never let it go. One of the many defects of their kind. Also, weak arms."
-Dwight Schrute
Ninjas???
I too am severely disappointed in the lack of ninjas.
Agreed, ninja deficiency too much, I go commit Harakiri…
What are you all talking about? There are 4 ninjas pictured in that article =)
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
I may have missed them, but did you see my Ninja Rec'd??
Straight Wu-Tang, “Killllaaaa beeeeees on the swaaaarrrrm!”
See, I just Ninja Rec’d you too.
"Reject a woman, and she will never let it go. One of the many defects of their kind. Also, weak arms."
-Dwight Schrute
Now that I'm a contributor...
I’m not allowed to just throw up any given Google image. Although I’m not sure if that applies for regular fanposts… I’ll have to get a ruling from the Thormans.
Sadly, the days of ninja pics may be over :(
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Don't cry Steve
I can still do it in fanposts!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Ahhh, contributing=censorship, or....
“In Soviet Russia, Glenn Dorsey trades YOU!”
"Reject a woman, and she will never let it go. One of the many defects of their kind. Also, weak arms."
-Dwight Schrute
Haha it's not really censorship
It’s just that they have to protect themselves from potential copyright violations when it comes to “stories” as opposed to fanposts. Fortunately, I’ve discovered that I can still do it in fanposts. So it’ll be fixed shortly :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I got you..

"Reject a woman, and she will never let it go. One of the many defects of their kind. Also, weak arms."
-Dwight Schrute
by severn58 on Jun 8, 2011 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
100% agree.
Dorsey is the shit, his stomping around after stuffing RBs behind the line is the shit, he’s gonna be even more the shit this year. I mean, shit, this shit-talk about trading him is just dumb.
You just made player of the week!
Founded Arrowhead Pride 7/26/2006
by Chris Thorman on Jun 7, 2011 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions
awesome, possum ...
one of your best ever!
The defense rests, Your Honor
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Dec. 20, 2009...Chiefs vs Browns
The only game Dorsey didn’t play. B. Quinn passed for 66 yards. With Gilberry starting, J. Harrison rushed for 286 yards…enough said.
by cyberry on Jun 7, 2011 3:21 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
What a game...
I like Gilberry, but I’ll bet he had whiplash after that game from turning around so quick to watch Harrison run bye.
That was mostly Dion Gales leaving those holes, to be fair.
"Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you." -- Malcolm Reynolds
There was enough blame to go around that game
It is what it is and we are who we are.
Sober (again) since January 10th, 2011.
Not all those who wander are lost. /////// I dont mind stealing bread.
by nateforchiefs on Jun 7, 2011 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
Truth. That was pathetic.
I just know that Gales got the majority of the snaps in Dorsey’s spot, and they ran directly at him.
"Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you." -- Malcolm Reynolds
Hearing people wanting to trade Glenn is a close #2 behind "Tyson Jackson is a bust".
Both play 3-4 DE, coincidence? Maybe I need to unearth the “This is how a 3-4 works” post again. Ugh.
Good one, MN!
"Now you can luxuriate in a nice jail cell, but if your hand touches metal, I swear by my pretty floral bonnet I will end you." -- Malcolm Reynolds
by KaloPhoenix on Jun 7, 2011 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Interesting twist that other team fans are taking a liking to Glenn for their teams 4-3 defense
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
H^2-Hali and Houston
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 7, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
imo also up there with the "lets get jovan belcher off the roster" crowd
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Had to rec this too.
"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite
That may not be a bad idea
The problem is when you have high draft picks, people expect every pick to be a home run and be a top 5 player in the league. Simple math will show you the error of that belief.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Iv'e figured it out
It is the Royals affect. We always trade our best players for squat or less, it has seeped across the Arrowhead parking lot from Royals Stadium
"Hair cut time.''
Now that could very well be
The list of guys who have left the Royals and prospered is long indeed.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Yes and please pass it over to BBS of Stampede Blue..
Hell he thinks we draft TJax b/c we wanted him to play NT.. He’s a freakin lead blogger!
He's the reason that site has seen a drastic decline in traffic, from what I understand.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
Yeah, lot's of drama over there
Their all time most rec’d post is entitled “an explanation of why people dislike you BBS”…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
That's absolutely hilarious
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
Meh
He’s been good, and I’m glad he’s a Chief and we’ve seen what happens when he isn’t on the field.
That being said, I thought we were getting a Suh-type impact from all the hype he got.
He’s a nice player, but I’d be lying if I said he was what I expected.
...and make sure you vote for Jose
by craig in calgary on Jun 7, 2011 5:34 PM CDT reply actions
Suh wouldnt make the same impact as a 3-4 end though...
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
We didnt draft Dorsey to be a 34 end either
I’m not doubting that he’s a good cornerstone to our 34 defense but I think we are kidding ourselves by saying he’s not more suited to be a 43 DT.
...and make sure you vote for Jose
by craig in calgary on Jun 7, 2011 5:50 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Are we? It's certainly possible that he might be more suited to playing 4-3 DT
but there’s also no denying that his best seasons have come playing 3-4 DE. In fact, in the one season where he played his “natural” position of defensive tackle, he was spectacularly underwhelming.
Now, granted, he was also a rookie on a bad defense. But I don’t know that just assuming that he would have eventually grown into a Suh like threat is enough to outweigh the actual evidence we already have. We think he could have been a great 4-3 DT, but we already know he’s a damn good 3-4 DE.
"If you really want to shatter a backboard, tell it it's adopted." - Norm MacDonald
by MtHammer on Jun 8, 2011 2:31 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree. He'd be better in a 4-3
But since we don’t run one…
If a team came along and offered a 1st and a 3rd, then I’d say hmm….
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Will Glenn want to leave and play in a 4-3 is the question. If he does we must trade
him. What his value is has always been hard to figure as there are only so many teams who play the 4-3, but I believe his value is at least a first with a later rounder thrown in. We passed on Cam Jordan so I think Dorsey is in the teams future plans, but if he wants to go play for N.O. then we are really limited with what we can barter for.
All very true
I do think a lot will depend on how this next year goes. If his life gets easier playing beside a more-rested Edwards, an over-performing Powe, a now-at-NT-Smith, or even Franklin (please please please) he may decide he likes where he’s at.
Of course, that could drive his price up too… Fortunately, he’s with us for sure for another 2 years so we’ve got time to figure it out.
And remember, no matter what, even if he wants to leave, if we want to keep him badly enough there’s always the franchise tag (although I doubt Pioli would use it on a DE). That’s one thing I like about the current setup of the NFL and one thing I hope isn’t changed. The player doesn’t have ALL the power their contract year like in the NBA.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
another board
But I do remember having the conersation with a certain someone about the impact Suh will have in his rookie year. I pointed out to this fellow Suh will surprise all who thought all he brought to the table was his bull rush. Suh has the most amazing hand work for a DL & already has been told he will line up at DE for 4-3 Lions. If suh would to play DE in the 3-4 his hand work plus the ability to shed blockers would make him a very successfull statistically year. He would out perform Dorsey. & yes I thought Dorsey’s rookie year would have been what Suh produced. Maybe VandenBosch deserves more credit
I'm more than happy with him
just hope TJax pulls through and becomes the monster we know he can be. Those two playing opposite each other at the level they’re capable of is awesome to think about.
2011 hopefuls: A new CBA, followed by a good draft, accented by a great season. In that order.
Im waiting for...
I want to know fans opinion on if & how much Dorsey deserves on his 2nd contract. Is he worth top 10 3-4 DE pay or the goint rate for starter’s pay at the position? To me that’s the bigger story then Dorsey playing in KC until his rookie deal is up
who's complaining about the lack of ninjas? you didn't see them right?
’nuff said :)
Paging Carl the Janitor, Carl the Janitor you're needed in the war room STAT!
Thanks
I’ll try to turn out a few more. Of course, with the lockout, there are fewer things to argue about…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I had to rec this post. I put up my first fan shot about that idiotic article.
"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite
Saw that. Made me write this
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I'll look into it...
It depends on whether it’s easy to argue…
I HAVE always thought those “character issues” were way overblown and oft-repeated despite being rather minor…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
MN...don't get steve talking about asses
it took us forever to get him to remove the donkey picture from his avatar.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
I'm dragging Gilberry out from under the bus on run defense, here.
Most of the time we see him suck against the run, it’s because his assignment was rush the passer, and they ran the draw at him. Last year was his 3rd season in his 3rd defense. They sure weren’t in a hurry to play him at 5-tech on the early downs. The fact that we’re even talking about Gales struggling in relief of Dorsey DOES say that, bad as Gales was, he was still ahead of Gilberry on the depth chart.
So it’s not like I’m offering him a ride after saving his life. He has a lot to prove in order to become anything more than a sub-package specialist, but I’d bet that they’re pushing him to develop into a more versatile player, so maybe folks are half-right, when they expose their ignorance of his previous role, when they speak about roles he might play in the future.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Jun 8, 2011 3:03 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Haha rec
That was hysterical and accurate.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
We need dorsey
He is good with the run and tambi’ s reflect that.
No, YOU'RE nice!
See? We can disagree about TJ and still get along :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Glad you caught that article
A quality 3-4 end with a below average NT next to him, Dorsey is an excellent run stuffer and more than adequate at his positon. On top of that he is young and has some growth potential, but he’s worth a 3rd or maybe a 5th. Glad you called this out, because that’s a ridiculous statement.
great articl
Well not really. I guess I shouldn’t have posed a question but kissed your ass for writing something on a subject your talking to Jim and maybe 3 others…
So if you truelly need something to write about then share with us the 2nd contract you would offer to Dorsey.
This is a slow time of year
I’m grateful for any decent read, but the speculation in that article would be a worthwhile read during the season. Be glad we have a site like this.
nothing wrong with site
No I don’t need to be glad this site is here. But I do like. I asked Seth his opinion on Dorsey’s 2nd contract & surprisingly no response to my post… Im waiting for.. I want to know fans opinion on if & how much Dorsey deserves on his 2nd contract. Is he worth top 10 3-4 DE pay or the goint rate for starter’s pay at the p 313 on Jun 7, 2011 6:19 PM PDT reply
So yes Seth needs his ass kissed to respond
........and.....then......things........got......really......weird.......
Sent from my NinjaPad 3000
"Reject a woman, and she will never let it go. One of the many defects of their kind. Also, weak arms."
-Dwight Schrute
Or... I have 3 kids and a job and my time is not my own...
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Jun 8, 2011 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So here's the deal...
Notice how my responses this evening have been the very short kind? That’s because I’m busy. I haven’t had the time to give your question serious thought and give it a genuine, measured response.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
OK, now that I don't have a 3 month old on my lap and am not typing with one hand...
Or on my way to work… Or talking to my wife about the serious financial disaster that just befell us… Or spending time with my other two sons… I have time to do the important stuff… Answering a question from backbone!
Dorsey is not worth top 3-4 DE money in my mind, unless in the next year (perhaps with a more rested Edwards and/or a decent rookie season from Powe) he displays an increased ability to get to the QB.
The best 3-4 DE’s (the Docketts and Smiths of the world) are great against the run as well as excellent at getting into the backfield. While Dorsey is very good against the run and has shown improvement creating havoc in the backfield, he still isn’t at the level that would demand a top contract.
In my opinion, something along the lines of 6 years and 5-6 million per year would be a decent fit. This would be less than Smith is making (despite Smith’s contract being signed back in ’08), and would reflect his important-but-not-elite level.
I’d also suggest making about half the contract guaranteed, which would make it more appealing to Dorsey and help us keep from being outbid by other teams (as we all know, in the NFL it’s all about the guaranteed $). We’ve seen enough of him under Haley to know he’s not gonna tank it just because he’s given a big bonus and good guaranteed money, so the risk is less for us than a team that perhaps doesn’t know him as well.
Now do you see why I didn’t have time for this comment last night or earlier today? Sheesh…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Never thought I'd see the day that a real life ninja would get bullied into responding to someone
These are dark times, indeed.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Well, he's so scary...
I mean, did you SEE that font?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Can't figure out where this talk about "Dorsey Trade" and "Dosen't Fit 3-4" comes from.
Everyone should know that there are many types of 3-4 Defenses. They have in common the basic notion of a stuctured team concept that front three hold the edge or Hold Gaps or eat up space. Front three make it possible for LBs and Safeties to be play makers. It is hard to find stats to quantify performance of a front Line Player in a 3-4 Defense. But if you tried you see that Dorsey seems to do OK as far as making his presence felt.
Lets look at an All Star DE and some DEs on successful Defenses.
Mario Williams had an All Star yr in 2010 as DE in a Hybrid 3-4 /5-2 style defense with 41 tacles, 34 solo, 7 assts and 9.8 sacks.
Ty Warren gets recognition as a stud with an ave over three yrs of 46 tkls, 33 solo, 13 assts and 2 sacks/yr.
Green bay won a Super Bowl with:
Cullen Jenkens at 32 tkls, 23 solo, 9 assts and 4.5 sacks.
R. Pickett at 37 tkls, 24 solo, 13 assts and 1.5 sacks
San Diego had a league leading Defense with :
Louis Castillo at DE with 26 Takls, 18 solo, 8 assts and 2.5 sacks.
Dorsey outshines them all as a run stopper and lags only in sacks with a whopping:
69 tkls, 51 solo, 18 assts and 2 sacks. ( He managed to do his job well enough that the LB behind him led the League in sacks.) With a better 2-gap player next to him , I would expect his Sack Totals to come up as well.
Keep in mind this is a “Team Defense” and we should not confuse individual stats with Team Success. However it does seem that Dorsey is diong his job; He is making a difference. That is all we can ask for now. Just wait untill some more players develop around him or next to him. Trade talk is not rational at this time.
I’ve heard of the term “Addition thru Subtraction”. But it seems that if we subtract Dorsey now we stand to gain very little except another hole to fill.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
by CatChief on Jun 8, 2011 4:52 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
to add one more point if Dorsey was as bad as all that
No one in the national press would even know his name.
Rec Cat
"Hair cut time.''
shocks me that people can have watched the chiefs on MNF vs SD and missed Dorsey absolutely dominating the chargers
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Again Williams is not a 3-4 DE nor will he play it when they switch to the 3-4 THIS YEAR
Williams will be tested at WOLB. How do you get 9.8 sacks in a season anyways?!
Hali did not lead the league in sacks last year.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
H^2-Hali and Houston
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 8, 2011 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
Williams will be tested at WOLB.
and we think Hali looks bad in pass coverage =)
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
I personally do not think Mario will work out well as a WOLB
he is like 6’5 or 6’6 and listed at 290(fans are saying he has cut weight down this off season). I am one of the very few that do think that Mario could play the DE spot in that base 3-4 since it is 1 gap and it would allow for Mario to just penetrate.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
H^2-Hali and Houston
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 9, 2011 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions
True, He is a little bulky to play a WOLB like Hali in a 3-4.
His success in the Rush End " DE " positiion in the HyBrid Defense they played in 2010 may not translate. He does have size and skill to play 3-or 5 technique and in a 4-3 or 3-4 variation. Good players adapt.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
They didn't really play a hybrid defense last year it was a 4-3 base and Williams since being drafted
Has been a 4-3 DE, not 3-4 DE nor a 4-3 DT. If he has shed some pounds that should help his quickness at WOLB and with that weight it might help him with a strait bull rush to the QB. Of course they will try him at OLB before DE in their NEW 3-4
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
H^2-Hali and Houston
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 13, 2011 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions
True they ran a 4-3 basic set but I thought they flexed into....
what would be considered a 5-2 a lot. Like the chiefs flex often back and forth between a 4-3 and a 3-4.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
In any case....
Williams was listed as a DE and now the talk of him moving to a WOLB is just talk …I think. I see him as more suited to a 3 or 5 technique D-Lineman.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
They really were never a 5-2 they played over and under 4-3 but that is not a completely different
formation nor is it 5 Dlinemen and 2 LBs, just the regular 4 Dlinemen and 1 of the OLBs on the line.
Williams has been a 4-3 DE throughout his career and Wade has said they will test him at WOLB first. IMO he does not have the skill set for a traditional 3 tech, a 5 tech in Wade’s 1 gap system fits him pretty well though
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
H^2-Hali and Houston
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 13, 2011 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions
I have no idea why Houston wouldn't put Williams at RDE
At 6’5" 290 lbs. and with his arsenal of good pass-rushing moves he could mimic Richard Seymour’s production from that position.
I think he will look ridiculous in space…
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 13, 2011 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Seymour is not a good comparison either
Seymour when in the 3-4 was a 2 gap DE who would read the play then penetrate if that option was available. Houston will be playing in Wade’s 1 gap system where its all about penetration from the Dline. Williams really would not be in space the 1 gap 3-4 is much more like a 5-2 defense where the OLBs are almost always on the line and stay there. Ware rarely dropped and Spencer if he did drop would be very shallow(which I guess will be Barwin’s job now)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
H^2-Hali and Houston
by BAMFSpecialOps on Jun 13, 2011 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Well said
Now stop improving on what I said :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Somebody want to throw one more rec on this bad boy?
Aint had one on the list in a while.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Jun 9, 2011 7:40 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
top 20 pick plus
maybe. He would be worth that to another team, not sure he is worth that to us. He is worth at least the pick that was used to draft him
I don't think Dorsey will be exposed as the weak link on our D for quite awhile.
I don’t think he’s a classic 3-4 DE, either.
But I think he’ll be a real mainstay for years, as they get fresh legs at NT and actually come up with a ROTATION for the front 3. I’m just not sure if the selection of Bailey signals a desire to get a better rotation or to improve their nickel package(s). Personally, I’d like to see them keep a 3-man line on the field in more situations than last year. I want them deep enough that they stick with the main themes up front, and swap out an ILB for a DB in their standard nickel.
What they seemed to have last year was two different defenses. One stout against the run with a relatively feeble pass rush. The other with pretty good pass rush, but feeble against the run. IMHO.
would of ≠ would've
Agreed
Although I like the idea of a nickel formation which has Gilberry, Bailey/Dorsey, Houston, and Tamba.
The problem with staying in our base 3-4 in obvious passing situations is that it would leave a NT on the field, which doesn’t help the pass rush at all.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Yeah, exactly
And with the pass happy NFL (esp when we see guys like Phyllis twice every year) – we need to be able to generate a legitimate pass rush on those obvious passing situations.
If our NT’s can absolutely maul the inside run, I’m perfectly happy letting them sit out 3rd and 12 for the pass rush specialists to fill in.
Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.
Amen
Like Steve said, the job description of a NT is simple: sit, stay.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
The problem with staying in our base 3-4 in obvious passing situations is that it would leave a NT on the field, which doesn’t help the pass rush at all.
I disagree – that was certainly true of our 2010 defense, but it might not be true of 2011 or 2012.
Maybe with Powe to take some snaps from him, Big Ron will be a few steps quicker on those run-pass situations (like 3rd and 4 or so)
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 13, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions
Maybe
But who do you want out there if your choice is between Gilberry and Edwards and you’re moderately sure they’re going to pass?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I'd probably say Edwards
but that is because I hate getting embarrassed by the draw on 3rd and 7
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Jun 14, 2011 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
And that's something others don't feel as keenly as you and I, PVC.
Knowing that you can sit Edwards any time you need to lets you leave him in for 3 downs, more often. Like I said above (or below), if they can set a standard of 2-gap play with 4 or 5 linemen, the LB competition gets REALLY interesting, and maybe that kid from Canada explodes onto the scene, or suddenly Donald Washington gets a couple picks off his speed. I think we’ll see Cory Mays grow a brain, in particular. Just take 2 or 3 things to worry about off the table for our LBs/DBs, and we’ll see a lot of guys in the back 8 suddenly seem to grow a brain.
With any luck, the offense has your back that day, and Edwards is enjoying the game from the sidelines, from the 7:30 mark of the 3rd quarter until 0:00 in the 4th, sittin’ on a 2-TD lead. You want to get 4 or 5 of those “easy” games for your big men. You WANT your starting DL to have mediocre stats, and your SCORING DEFENSE and TIME OF POSSESSION to be Top 5.
would of ≠ would've
That's kinda what I'm saying, PVC. Those 2nd-and-ambiguous situations.
Or those 3rd-and-3s. The greater depth should let them leave Edwards or Smith in the middle in MORE situations, but not necessarily all. 3rd-and-12, it ought to be that nickel.
For all I know, they might want to go with Bailey at RDE in those “ambiguous” situations, because he’s a 2-gapper with a good bull rush. I THINK Crennel wants his front 3 to get upfield AND honor 2 gaps. Maintain the inside seal, AND don’t make it too easy to get around ’em on the outside (especially QBs). Smith and Dorsey really did a good job on honoring their gaps, imo, but I think they were slow to get upfield with just one guy in their face.
When I look at the approach they’re taking to LB, I think it may be important for them to extend the envelope for their 3-man base front, if they want a DEEP team. We love the nickel sub-package, but there needs to be more crossover, and there need to be themes that persist, or they’ll be stuck with a LB corps, half of whom aren’t useful half the time, which puts them one injury away from mediocrity. Relying on that 3-man front to elminate half their worries makes the LB group they’re building 2 or 3 steps quicker. Take that away, and we’re back to looking for safeties to play LB, which I’d say sums up most of Gunther Cunningham’s tenure in KC.
would of ≠ would've
the way we were using mcgraw was almost like another LB.
id like to think that what we do on D has been dictated by how little we had on defense in terms of talent, or how many holes we have that force compensating for them.
with fewer and fewer holes, id hope it will open up more on D. As will that recent draft which happened to include help at all levels, DL, LB and DB
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
And yeah, I've seen Edwards show some real get-up-and-go,
and I think he’d have that all day long, with a decent NT rotation. I know we’re bringing back Anthony Toribio, but I don’t see him as The Guy, there. He strikes me as a hard-working dude, who’s ceiling is utility back-up. He MIGHT emerge with Houston AND Hali drawing attention away from the middle. That outside edge/bull rush from both OLBs is a big factor in getting what you need from NT.
All props to Stude, but I’m kind of excited to see KC go after Houston and Miller, although I’m not too sure about how fast they bring Miller along, with his injury history. I have a feeling they’ll have him on a “structural integrity” regimen, with his history of tendon injuries.
Miller might be a little more like me than he ought to be: All heart and not enough sinew. But I’ve seen him on film enough to believe he has the physical side of it covered, with a smart trainer and coaches who want to get it right, more than they want it NOW.
I think they did the right thing, with a 3rd-round pick on a guy who slid, due to herbage, and the double-up with Miller. I don’t think Miller’s the pass-rusher that Houston is, but he’ll double-time any TE backwards into the QB’s lap. Offenses will have to spend a fattie on him, or plan on giving help from FB/HB, which is the best way to cover those pesky players.
would of ≠ would've
Dorsey was who I wanted in 2008
but you picked ahead of us and we got Vernon freaking Gholston.
shakesfist
GGN Moderator, House pessimist, veteran arm chair GM.
www.GangGreenNation.com
by Bro Namath on Jun 13, 2011 4:47 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
Ha! Rec
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Jun 14, 2011 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions
yeah honestly I feel bad about that. He was such a slug for a guy with such athletic talent
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt

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