Could a Current Chief be a Diamond in the Rough?

by 808NaNz808 on Mar 8, 2011 3:35 PM CST

Evaluating a player is a lot like Poker. It's almost entirely luck, yet somehow the same people seem to be sitting on the championship table year after year. In the NFL's case, the high rollers would be people like the Rooneys, Bill Bellichik, Bill Polian, A.J Smith, and Ozzie Newsome.

The Steelers currently start 7 players that were drafted in the fifth round or later, 10 if you add in third rounders and Flozell Adams, who was signed cheap by Pittsburgh. The Colts? TWELVE players started that were drafted lower than the fifth. Six of them went undrafted.

The best franchises are built on late picks and cheap free agents just as much as they are on successful early picks. It's all about value in the NFL, and it doesn't get much better than having a cheap free agent, late round rookie, or undrafted rookie, turn into a starter for a playoff push.

That said, is it possible that the Chiefs have a high value player already on the roster? As it stands the Chiefs start a bunch of guys that could fall under the "good value" category but how many of them are actually good value at this point?

Brandon Carr looks like he was a huge steal for the Chiefs, but he is lined up for a pretty decent contract if the Chiefs want to keep him long term, Verran Tucker shows flashes of brilliance but he was more of a stopgap than anything, and Ron Edwards is near the end of the line.

The Chiefs have some starters like Barry Richardson, Jovan Belcher, Ryan Lilja, and Kendrick Lewis that look to have bright futures ahead of them at solid value. But with so many holes to fill and such a hard schedule ahead for the Chiefs, is it possible a Chief could break out and help them make a playoff push?

Darryl Harris

via prod.static.chiefs.clubs.nfl.com

Position: G/C

Age: 26

Undrafted

Darryl Harris is one of those guys that could be a fan favorite that never sees an NFL field. Still he's very intriguing. Last year Harris killed it in training camp playing both Center and Guard, but ultimately suffered injury and was moved to the practice squad. Harris has a ton of athleticism and played every offensive line position in college. If he ultimately becomes a starter at Center or Guard, the Chiefs' undrafted class of 09 may be better than the drafted class.

Justin Cole

via prod.static.chiefs.clubs.nfl.com

Position: OLB

Age: 23

Undrafted

Cole is one of those "right 53" guys. He's not the most talented guy in the world, but what he does give you is a good frame and tons of hard work. We haven't seen much of Cole in game action outside of a few drives in the Pre-Season, but he has a ton of college tape, having started three years. In terms of a pass rush, Cole is a threat on the edge, but his shorter arms limit him rushing between the tackles. We don't really get to see him in coverage in both college and the pre season, so the ballot is still out there.

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Interesting topic

You forgot to mention Studebaker though. This may (finally) be the year we find out if he’s going to always be a ST and “situational” guy or if he can get out there and claim that SOLB spot as his.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 8, 2011 4:07 PM CST reply actions

Does that work in reverse?

If the guy doesn’t show out with more and more snaps thrown his way, do we finally move on? I like the guy, but I don’t see him being “the guy.” Tired of waiting on turds to turn into diamonds.

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 8:58 AM CST up reply actions

I'm right there with you

With how much Vrabel has slowed down, and with Stude going into his 3rd year with us, there are simply no more excuses for not taking Vrabel’s snaps and outperforming him.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 10, 2011 9:20 AM CST up reply actions

Also, one thing about the Colts

Is that they have several elite players at key positions (Peyton, Wayne, their DEs). This allows them to have players that are perhaps not as talented, because the stars draw so much attention that a less-heralded player will get opportunities that otherwise wouldn’t exist.

Steelers, same thing (Troy P, Big Ben, their OLBs)

Call it the “Scottie Pippen” theory. Pip would’ve been a good player no matter where he went, but would he have been nearly as good as he was without MJ to take all the pressure off? I don’t think so.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 8, 2011 4:10 PM CST reply actions

This is true

I forget where, but I read that teams like the Patriots and Colts are built around 8-9 solid players that they break the bank on. The rest of the team is expendable. To me that’s got to be your QB, His favorite target, Your best pass rusher, Your NT, a solid S, and your Offensive Tackles. I think you can get by with the rest of the field after that.

Back on the Sione Fua bandwagon.
B(lind)old supporter of Polynesian players in the NFL

by 808NaNz808 on Mar 8, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions

It's the Polian way

And I agree with you. Get a core and stick with it. Everyone else can be replaced.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 8, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

And even MJ never won a championship until he got a team around him.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 8, 2011 7:51 PM CST up reply actions

Well, sure...

My point is that when you’ve got elite players, they help mask the deficiencies of the other guys.

Rodman, for example, wouldn’t be much of a PF on most teams because he’s SUCH an offensive liability. But for those Bulls teams (that didn’t need scoring, but toughness and rebounding) he was perfect.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 9, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions

He was an elite rebounder.

Didn’t he start out as a Piston. Funny how the Kurt Rambisses and Worms seem to catch on with great teams. It’s like they have a strong core group and just need role… Oh. Never mind. ;o)

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 13, 2011 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions

And since I'm yammering on and on... Rec'd

It’s good to have something original and interesting to talk about… slow news days.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 8, 2011 4:10 PM CST reply actions

Micah Johnson

I really liked the guy coming out-of-college and I think he’s a guy that could work his way onto the field as a mid-season PS pickup last year.

After a lot of youtube scouting...I think Kerrigan could play OLB.

by BJ Kissel on Mar 8, 2011 4:11 PM CST reply actions

Maybe Cameron Sheffield?

His season was cut short due to a neck injury in preseason

FA: Mike Simms-Walker
Draft
1: Phil Taylor
2: Brooks Reed
3: Austin Pettis
4: Marcus Gilbert
5: Tim Barnes
5: Nathan Enderle

Let's See 11 wins this year guys

by Rockhurstdude on Mar 8, 2011 4:16 PM CST reply actions

Yep. Looked great in the game he got injured.

by WURoyal on Mar 8, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

Jackie Battle

I know he’s not new to the team or anything, but he KILLED it in training camp and the pre-season last year. The guy looked like a wrecking ball blasting through the line. He isn’t fast, and he isn’t all that ‘quick’ either…but he still may end up a quality between the tackles runner.

The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw

by Texas Chief on Mar 8, 2011 4:18 PM CST reply actions

That's what my homer side keeps hoping

Then I look at his career stats and think, “Why on earth should I believe this guy will ever do anything?”

And then the war between inner cynic and inner hopeful fan begins…

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 8, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

Agree with both of you.

Few here seem to think much of his running, but I saw a guy who was spinning off multiple tacklers and just kept his feet moving, manufacturing 2 or 3 extra yards after Charles/Jones/McCluster-stuffing contact. It was ugly running in ugly traffic.

IMO, it hinges on the non-running aspects of his all-around game. It seems likely that learning protections, lead-blocking, pass-catching, and the like have more to do with his limited touches, plus the fact that there are other guys ahead of him in the depth chart. It says something good that they gave him the rock in some must situations, where defenses were keying on him, and he converted. It says something bad that they never ask anything else of him, and my impression was that the few times they did, he didn’t impress.

But I’ve seen the way he moves and he seemed sure-handed when I saw him in workouts. That’s why I’ve always speculated that the blue-collar part of the RB job wasn’t his area of strength. What doesn’t fit with my lame impression is his active contributions on special teams.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 8, 2011 8:07 PM CST up reply actions

Agreed about the "homer side" comment

but the logical (some would call it the pessimistic or “hater” side) is much louder. It says, “He’s a ST lifer. NEXT!”

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 9:00 AM CST up reply actions

I'm curious how the carries get divvied out this year

With Haley talking about Dex being in the backfield more, it may well turn out that Battle’s chances are over.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 10, 2011 9:37 AM CST up reply actions

Very fair statement

Haley seems intent on Dex carrying the ball more. To me this says that Battle will really never be a viable option in this offense. He’s great on special teams though. The real question is; does he have enough value, at the end of the pre-season (after he’s shown his early year brilliance against 3rd and 4th string defenses) to move and get something of value in return?

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 9:42 AM CST up reply actions

I like the idea of Dex getting some carries

With the way our line is set up, we need fast RBs. Also, he seems to be a better receiver out of the backfield than out of the slot.

And that may be a good idea on Battle. Snag a 7th for him or something.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 10, 2011 10:03 AM CST up reply actions

Dex gets to many carries he will be on IR. I see him in the passing game

more. Also I believe he will be decoy on several plays, being a second or third option. Not saying he will not run the ball, I just don’t think he’ll last the season out doing it often.

by dubld on Mar 10, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions

Not arguing there

but I think the Chiefs will pick and choose where he gets carries. I can see him getting 5-8 carries a game. He may be another guy that they look at in the draw or screen game too. Wonder if he’s better than Charles on draws…

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 1:41 PM CST up reply actions

Is anyone?

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 10, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

Hope not!

LOL

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions

Very true

I was thinking 7-8 carries in a game max. Less if he’s not needed.

I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.

by MNchiefsfan on Mar 10, 2011 1:45 PM CST up reply actions

He's mostly been a decoy to this point.

But he was clutch before the ankle injury.

I think the fact that he CAN split wide or in the slot makes him much more difficult to scheme against as a halfback, much like Priest Holmes was.

I don’t see Dex as a huge injury risk, but I think the Chiefs need to establish something outside before ramming him up the gut. As with Charles, it’s that one step to the outside that panics defenses and creates cutback lanes up the middle.

Really, I see Dex and Charles as nearly interchangeable, and I think that’s why the Chiefs picked up Dex. At least a large part of the reason. As I’ve said a jillion times, I saw Dex as Charles insurance. As it turned out, Charles stayed healthier than Dex, but Dex showed MORE all-around skills than Charles did as a rookie. Much greater “presence” and awareness, and, for a little guy, very gutsy about blocking.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 13, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions

He may be on the chopping block

with McCluster moving to a more RB heavy role… supposedly. I would love for Battle to step up and take Thomas Jones’ spot though

Back on the Sione Fua bandwagon.
B(lind)old supporter of Polynesian players in the NFL

by 808NaNz808 on Mar 8, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions

McCluster might do that

Dream Mock Draft:
1. Aldon Smith OLB Missouri
2. Phil Taylor NT Baylor
3. Tim Barnes C Missouri
4. Vincent Brown WR SD State
5A. Ricky Stanzi QB Iowa
5B. Mario Harvey ILB Marshall
7. Hank Hynoski FB Pittsburgh

by ChiefWarPaint on Mar 9, 2011 1:59 AM CST up reply actions

And keep a guy or guys like Battle around for power sets.

Battle has darn good speed for a big back, and might be just what the doctor ordered as a lead blocker for speedier backs.

And maybe the Chiefs keep a couple-three big backs around to power up, like the Falcons did with their 3-tackle fronts.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 13, 2011 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions

look at the Royals...

Texas Chief….

training camp may be great and all…

Mich Maier for the Royals KILLS in Spring Training…. and look at what he does with the big boys…

besides use your backup running backs on special teams, dont resign then. Take a chance on a rookie fa or draft and maybe he becomes a starter (Charles)

by macjeff35 on Mar 8, 2011 4:59 PM CST up reply actions

Great comparison

Jackie Battle embodies the whole Royals TEAM; killers in pre-season, but disappears when it counts.

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions

Lb Pierre Walters looks to me like he is ready to take the next step and I have hopes

for Harris as well.

by dubld on Mar 8, 2011 4:19 PM CST reply actions

The same guy that is stiff as a board?

by macjeff35 on Mar 8, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions

he had a good preseason

Was a “sack machine” in college, if I remember the fanpost correctly…

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 8, 2011 6:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Ryan Leaf looked good in college also... So did Snoop Minnis...

by macjeff35 on Mar 9, 2011 8:12 AM CST up reply actions

And Todd Blackledge

by SCKSChief on Mar 10, 2011 9:01 AM CST up reply actions

'Tweeners tend to look that way.

You don’t realize their value, until you realize they’re mixing it up with the bigs in heavy traffic. Vrabel and Studie are both pretty stiff (in my opinion)

That said, the young Sam Acho looked like he had more quicks and sheer athleticism and as much stout as other OLBs on the roster.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 8, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions

Well if I had to guess on who's not

It’s Anthony Toribio.

Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.

by TRSChief on Mar 8, 2011 4:39 PM CST reply actions

and..

Bates, Price, Cole, Lawrence, Anderson

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 8, 2011 6:09 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Richardson and Belcher

I am just glad someone finally agrees we have someone good in both Richardson and Belcher. Get off the o-lines nuts. we do NOT need another tackle to competition and all that crap. We need depth.. Do NOT a high pick on backup’s…. high picks are a gamble anyways..

by macjeff35 on Mar 8, 2011 4:57 PM CST reply actions

We still need to draft starting quality O Line

But it’s the interior.

We need at the bare minimum – one near-future starter at C / G, assuming Asamoah pans out as a quality starter. With both Wiegmann and Waters being in the twilight of their careers, we’ll need their replacements on the roster and trained up / ready to go.

So on top of a must-have interior O Line starter, we’ll need at least two solid interior O Line depth guys and a solid OT that can provide depth or possibly an upgrade over Richardson. I think Richardson is fine, but if I have a chance at “great” over “fine” – I’ll take it every day of the week.

Chiefs - back in the playoffs in 2011.

by TRSChief on Mar 9, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions

good point

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 9, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions

I like Greenwood, and think that he could make some noice.

by Helmets on Mar 8, 2011 5:01 PM CST reply actions

you bet

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 8, 2011 5:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

LOTS of potential

Studebaker, Belcher, Richardson, Greenwood, Micah Johnson, Harris, Sheffield, Tucker, Horne, Urban…

If half of those players go up one notch (starter-to-stud, backup-to-starter, ST player-to-backup, PS player-to-contributor) that would be Huge!

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 8, 2011 5:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Horne. Good call. I think he’s gonna break out.

by WURoyal on Mar 8, 2011 6:17 PM CST up reply actions

would be a nice bonus

I am not counting on it.

I like

Tucker to take over Copper’s spot
Greenwood to take over DW’s spot
Micah to take over Mays’s spot
*Maybe Horne could take Tucker’s spot, and
MSW or a good draft pick takes over for Chambers
Maybe Langford or a draft pick takes over for McGraw?

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 8, 2011 6:36 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Didn't Tucker take Horne's spot?

by Chief Willie Wildcat on Mar 8, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions

yep

But, I am predicting Copper not returning, Tucker taking his ST and ocassional WR job.

That would leave Horne Urban or Lawrence to take Tucker’s roster spot…

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 8, 2011 7:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Horne might have the most speed of the bunch.

Made a couple blunders suggesting he had potential but was wet behind the ears. He’s one with pretty high up-side, imo.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 8, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions

Stagdsp..

Greenwood to take over DW’s spot?

So you want him to stand on the sidelines right beside him?
What spot did Williams have (I personally think Williams should never come off of the field, but we don’t use him anymore…no idea why)

Everyone treats the NFL too much like a video game… you cant just pick up someone you THINK might work and have them work out asap…

by macjeff35 on Mar 9, 2011 8:56 AM CST up reply actions

DW didn't see the field much

but, he was the backup WILB, which is what Greenwood could develop into.

DW also played a lot on special teams, though I don’t think he contributed much… Greenwood is becoming one of the best STers on the Chiefs.

So, yeah, it’s not a big leap to think that Greenwood could do what little DW did last season, and DW could be let go.

Prediction: KC will not draft a LB before the 3rd round

by stagdsp on Mar 9, 2011 9:49 AM CST up reply actions

fair enough

by macjeff35 on Mar 9, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions

As long as Greenwood doesn't run into the freaking kicker!

by groundedchevy on Mar 9, 2011 4:56 PM CST up reply actions

Basically our LB corps

could be filled with gems. Improved NT play could really bring out the best in these guys.

I wouldn’t mind a double down at NT this year (draft/FA-if we have one) so we can really see how good the LBs can be.

Sheffield is the x-factor because we have no idea what we have in him. Also, don’t sleep on Micah Johnson because he has some great film. Maybe he needed a little more time to catch on to the pro game.

2011 Draft Needs:
OL (C/RT), NT, WR, SOLB, depth..........

Big things poppin next year!

by Hail2DaChiefs on Mar 8, 2011 6:50 PM CST reply actions

I like our LBS we need to draft elsewhere.

Lots of potential Gems at lb and deff enough tallent that we have a solid core please no lbs in the draft this year.

NT,C/OL,WR,QB,TE,

Most importantly this year we need to get depth at our older positions find Wiegmans replacment. Get a #1 WR to team with Bowe. Pssibly pick up a RB.

on this topic our LBs and S/CBs i feel our both full of gems. DL we have some gems Gillberry mostly.

by kcchiefstd on Mar 9, 2011 4:36 PM CST up reply actions

That's my generic take.

But front 5 is pretty important to me, too. I’d love to see Sheffield/Studebaker/… bring something PHYSICAL to that position, and I’m open to drafting high for that purpose (for a Terrell Suggs kind of player), although the preference is to DISCOVER that kind of player after the DL and DB situation is excellent. When you have those other 2 groups top-notch, maybe a guy without the entire toolkit (like maybe not great in coverage) puts you over the top by denying the run and killing QBs. But you maybe don’t discover that guy if you’re 2nd-tier in those other two position groups.

This signature is way better than my last one was.

by hmills110 on Mar 13, 2011 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions

Verran my man Tucker

He flashed this past year. Busts his ass on special teams and if this CBA gets done a full camp working with Haley. Maybe he goes to the Fitz camp with Bowe. He’s a hard worker, I think he’s gonna be our Breaston

by RamX21 on Mar 8, 2011 11:00 PM CST reply actions

Ima say Jermey Horne

by Larryemcdaniel on Mar 9, 2011 1:46 AM CST via mobile reply actions

Cory Greenwood is a guy that comes to mind

by ChiefWarPaint on Mar 9, 2011 2:02 AM CST reply actions

I've got a few I'm interested in.

Jovan Belcher – UDFA who started for us in just his second season. He’s improved a lot so far and I don’t see any reason why that won’t continue.

Jackie Bates – Filled in pretty well when he was called upon to replace an injured Brandon Flowers. He seems like one of those guys that has plenty of raw talent, but never developed a skill set in college. The right teacher could turn him into a quality player.

Jackie Battle – Size and speed are ideal for a between the tackles type RB. He runs hard. Could have a solid future as either a compliment to Charles or possibly even as a FB.

Verran Tucker – Another UDFA getting some starting time. Offers the ability to stretch the field. Needs to work on his route running and separation skills.

"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram

by citadelchief on Mar 9, 2011 7:23 AM CST reply actions