Simply Put...
by Lanier63 on Mar 17, 2011 8:38 AM CDT
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PrintI quite possibly could be the AP member with the lowest IQ on here. But I have actually been thinking (without a beer in hand) on this Lockout/Decertification matter. If someone would, please correct me on a couple of points:
- If the players walked away from the table and decertified as a union, then there is no union any longer.
- Now the players are all individuals representing themselves with the owners
- However, each player has a contract to play football for their repsective teams until the contract expires or is terminated
- The owners also have a employer/employee relationship with each player as most businesses do with employees not represented by a union
- There is no longer a need for a lockout and the owners get to keep all their profits, as any normal business owner does
- The players play for their compensation outlined in their contracts as each of us would in our respective jobs
- If they dont like it, then Burger King is hiring
Did I forget something?
Now why are we not carrying on with business as usual?
I now it isnt this simple, but with a simple mind, it sure seems like it should be.
Lanier63
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Can we drop the whole "just like any other business" nonsense?
The NFL is in no way like any other business. Name another industry where owners are allowed to collude.
I don’t comment on this site for the people that are against me and think that I can’t do it. I comment for the people that have always believed in me. I comment for my family, for my wife, for my mother so it really comes down to that.
MLB, NHL, NBA, etc
We're the same team as last year, except incredibly better, and with new players.
How are other sports leagues a different industry?
I don’t comment on this site for the people that are against me and think that I can’t do it. I comment for the people that have always believed in me. I comment for my family, for my wife, for my mother so it really comes down to that.
by HIV 2 Elway on Mar 17, 2011 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a toally different landscape for each sport.
I see what you’re saying though
We're the same team as last year, except incredibly better, and with new players.
And they're not like any other business either.
I would like a Royale with Cheese
by ChiefWarPaint on Mar 17, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions
Just naming another business
Like he stated. Didn’t say they were like the typical business.
Big Gulps EH????? All right.....Welp....See Ya Later!
and you are correct :-)
but hey, we all LOVE the Big Oil companies, right?
little known fact: Hitler’s air force depended on a specific fuel additive for the planes to be able to fly, and that additive was produced by one company: Standard Oil … that company in turn sold that fule additive to anyone and everyone, including the Germans, before and during the war
have you thanked the Rockefellers lately?
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Big Oil gets a bad rep
They’ve been recording record profits due to all the newly industrialized companies in the world that are now using oil when they weren’t 20 years ago. Yet they’re vilified for doing well by those who don’t seem to get the laws of supply and demand…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Sometimes they forego safety for profit
and that’s never acceptable
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
Very true
But the outfit I worked for was incredibly safety-conscious, as are most others.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
you do realize that we loan money to those countries ... money they can never pay back
in return, we privatize their oil fields, build military bases, take over their country in many ways … we’ve done it for years
seriously, you should watch Zeitgeist (both 1 and 2) … it’s online, and you might be surprised at what you learn (I knew most of it, but it’s still a good flick and very powerful stuff)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
My buddy Isaac had me watch it with him a little while back
I was pretty tired, but there is some eye-opening info there… And I generally would agree with the broad theory that the world is in fact controlled by banks.
I’ll try to watch it again when I’m caught up with my work, sound good?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Ironically, the banks became a problem when they got in bed with gummint in the name of saving the economy.
Think what the world might be like if bank notes were only as good as the reputation and integrity of the individual bankers. Of course, that’s the system we CURRENTLY have, except we have no options when the banking MONOPOLY we’ve given the Federal Reserve screws everything up for everybody…
This signature is way better than my last one was.
Wait a minute...
You mean if the banks and gov’t are separated, that’s a good idea?
You radical! :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
MN, speaking of Isaac ... a different one, btw ...
look online and read a short story by Isaac Asimov called The Last Question" … you might enjoy it :-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'll give anything a try once...
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I just have difficulty taking Zeitgeist seriously
When it’s had to be amended several times because of factual inaccuracies….
That and any show that attempts to pimp the whole “Jesus never really existed” theory is hysterical to me, so that’s hard to get over.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
being raised jewish, I've had issues with the New Testament in terms of "factual inaccuracies"
never really questioned the existence of Jesus per se, but the whole resurrection and walking on water thing is a bit hard to buy
as for Zeitgeist itself, I can see some “facts” being skewed a bit, but the basics of it … the bottom line point it makes … is spot on: the wealthy control more than anyone realizes, and the politicians, both Dems and Reps, are pawns of the elite wealthy and the banks
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Sure... there are some good points there
But the bottom line (at least for me) is that it has largely been panned by the entire academic community, from left-leaning to right-leaning.
I do, however, applaud the message that people should think harder about who is controlling what.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I like that take.
Our founding fathers got it right by their deep suspicion of concentrated power. We dropped the ball, since then.
This signature is way better than my last one was.
yup, and power is more concentrated now than ever before
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Mar 19, 2011 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yup. And usually by well-meaning nincompoops who buy into the soak-the-rich
class warfare spiel.
The Robber Barons of the past would’ve had their day and passed away, were it not for a kajillion 3-letter agencies ostensibly created to control them. Of course, once you create an agency to regulate the rails, for example, who ends up heading up those agencies? You guessed it: the very people they’re regulating. Same with banking.
You just make the problem worse by looking to stop the nonsense with regulations that mainly stop good people from competing with the ruthless. Think of where we might be, with the communications made possible by technology, if there were no new laws compelling fair play, but if companies survived ONLY by trust and good will of customers. It’s not building codes that make housing safer. It’s good companies that build smart, and build solid reputations, which THEY protect more fiercely than any uninterested government beaurocrat.
Instead of a society where excellent people strive to make things more excellent, we are building a society where mediocre people play politics and meet minimums under overcomplex law. By trying to impose a floor, we impose a ceiling.
I know. You’ll shoot me down by pointing to all the thousands saved by government intervention, whereas I can only speculate about the millions who would’ve kept themselves out of that fix in the first place, by handling themselves intelligently in a society of citizens who do likewise.
This signature is way better than my last one was.
Now that you've made this realization, UPS, the NEXT level is realizing that
progressive/populist politics only FEEDS the beast, in the name of destroying it.
That’s understandable, since the GOOD in progressive policies is easy to see, whereas the damage it does is more diffuse, and may not hit for a generation or two, especially with technology invisibly enriching everyone, in spite of how the wealthy squeeze.
This signature is way better than my last one was.
well, the problem is that even progressive politics is ... poilitics
at the end of that second Zeitgeist it had a few suggestions on how to change things, which I had to laugh at …
-buy windmills and solar panels to get off the grid
-buy smaller cars to use less oil and gas
-etc
… not that those are bad ideas, but the do nothing to send a message of anyh kind and do less than nothing in terms of “changing the world” … that’s accomplished only by revolution
“It says right there in the Constitution it’s really A-OK to have a revolution when the leaders that you made just don’t make the grade” – Brewer and Shipley (Oh, Mommy)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ahh, yes. You're finally exposed as a dangerous adrenalin junkie.
A closet aristocrat, who will create utopia, if only we will help him tear down everything and start from scratch. The poor and unfortunate who perish during the transition are just collateral damage to you cold-blooded types.
And the one thing you hate about Zeitgeist is one of the things I LIKE about it. You want to eliminate concentrations of power, then ideas that empower the individual, that take the individual off the grid (because securing energy and transportation is just something sensible people do).
The more self-reliant the average guy is, the harder it is for assholes in government to bend them to their will. There are other good spinoffs, too. For instance, if you’re no longer dependent on foreign oil to fuel your way of life, then the idea of going to war in faraway places is absurd, abhorrent, even. Both of the Bush adventures in the Middle East would have been laughed out of the halls of congress about a millisecond after someone floated the idea.
An important thing to take away from the thought-provocation in Zeitgeist, is how governments come and go, but the average level of enlightenment in society is the key to forward progress. It might be a simple as an invention like the i-Phone or BlackBerry. All of this hand-wringing we’re doing about governments and human nature might be NOTHING compared to some new food preparation or production device that raises all of us a little bit.
REAL, POSITIVE revolution is all about how we treat each other and handle ourselves, from the poorest street urchin to the wealthiest entrepreneur. And it’s fascinating what the role of invention has played in OUR country.
You want a better society? Invent a more convenient way to heat and power a home with ambient energy sources. Invent a way to power your car that doesn’t require a visit to the local gas station every 400 miles. I have a great respect for soldiers, but I abhor the fact that their lives are being spent to secure gas for my trips to the grocery store.
This signature is way better than my last one was.
we bought titanium
from the russians during the cold war in order to build the SR-71.
Sign a new CBA NOW, you greedy bastards.
Cobalt and, I believe, titanium, were the hidden subtext behind foreign policy in Africa.
We made a LOT of moral compromises in the name of national security.
This signature is way better than my last one was.
and/or the name of corporate profit
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
What other business has $9 billion just sitting there,
and is being fought for on how it gets split up between the owners and their employees?
by ChiefDailyBaked on Mar 17, 2011 9:55 AM CDT reply actions
If the players walked away from the table and decertified as a union, then there is no union any longer.
Technically, there is no union, but the entity exists as a Trade Association as I understand it. The Union was not voluntary. The Trad Association is voluntary. The CBA and the agreement between the NFLPA and the owners essentially allowed the NFL to do whatever the wanted with no regard to Anti-Trust laws. Now that the NFLPA is decertified (and no longer a union) they are representing the players as providers of a trade instead of employees. Since the NFL owners have virtually eliminated all competition the players may sue based on the Anti-Trust laws.
That being said, I’m an accountant not a labor lawyer so that could be all wrong. That’s just what I’ve gathered because no one has taken the time to sit down and explain the situation.
If someone asks you if you want extra mayonnaise you have to say yes, cus that's part of it.
-Jared Allen
by JComp11 on Mar 17, 2011 10:08 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Thats the way I see it.
Being Certified allows them to use the Power of Collective Bargaining to advance their cause.
Being De-Certified allows them to use Anti-Trust Laws and the Courts to advance their cause.
Sort of like being married and able to “Certify and De-Certify” your Marriage License depending on your intentions for the weekend.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
by CatChief on Mar 17, 2011 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
So...
If there is no union how do they discuss a new CBA? Sending people/players to represent the rest of the players would represent a union wouldn’t it?
Anti-Trust Laws exist to prevent a monopoly, no?
And the players decertifying the union puts the owners in violation of those laws? Or does it? How is the NFL a monopoly when there is the UFL (United Football League), the CFL (Canadian Football League), and the AFL (Arena Football League). As far as I can tell, there is plenty of competition out there. The NFL cannot be a monopoly when there are 3 other leagues out there. Just sayin….
by KCChiefsfan75 on Mar 17, 2011 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions
It's the owners preventing true "freedom" with the draft and a salary cap
That makes it a monopoly of sorts, I believe…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
you guys are talking about different things
monopolies are marketplaces where there is one company providing all the product. NFL at least partly meets this because the other leagues simply don’t provide the same level of entertainment, a different product. But, overall, it is simply an entertainment choice for all of us. Under that view the NFL is no monopoly.
In terms of labor, the NFL is certainly NOT a monopoly. The players can choose to do anything they wish. Work in the other football leagues, bag groceries at HyVee, be an astrophysicist. Seriously, nobody is “entitled” to the job they wish to have.
As Rush once sang: “If you choose not to decide, you have still made a choice.” There is no monopoly against the players. Choose something else if you wish.
Sign a new CBA NOW, you greedy bastards.
All the worlds indeed a stage..............
………and we are merely players, performers and portrayers……each anothers audience….inside the gilded cage.
I believe its Shakespeare…but kind of fits this whole mess some how.
#1 OT Gabe Carimi (Wisconsin) #4 FB Owen Marecic (Stanford)
#2 NT Jerrel "POWE" (Ole' Miss) #5 WR Greg Salas (Hawaii)
#3 G/C John Moffitt (Wisconsin) #5 ILB Mario Harvey (Marshall)
#7 C Alex Linnenkohl (Oregon State)
by Masons on Mar 18, 2011 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
bravo! bravo!!
but you charged too much for the show, Masons … I want a refund ;-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
my mind struggles ....
I have a hard enough time figuring out 4-3 defense instead of a 3-4 defense. Talk about slow….. I would really like to go back to football rather than labor negotiations between a bunch of overpaid, greedy ass, unrealistic, … did I mention greedy ass … self-important, rich guys.
76°
by i'minCostaRicachiefsfan on Mar 17, 2011 12:06 PM CDT reply actions
Mr. Lanier...don't flatter yourself...I have the lowest IQ around here ; )
#1 OT Gabe Carimi (Wisconsin) #4 FB Owen Marecic (Stanford)
#2 NT Jerrel "POWE" (Ole' Miss) #5 WR Greg Salas (Hawaii)
#3 G/C John Moffitt (Wisconsin) #5 ILB Mario Harvey (Marshall)
#7 C Alex Linnenkohl (Oregon State)
by Masons on Mar 17, 2011 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
wreck'd for brutal honesty ;-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Somewhat random idea.
Seeing Lanier post about the labor situation kind of makes me want one of those videos you used to do, but of the last days of the negotiations. I’m just sensing it would be hilarious.
Maybe I should do one with Todd Haley acting as rep for the players vs Todd Haley the rep for the owners...lol
Winning begins with Attitude - Haley and Pioli will be winners in KC!
I'll forever be a Chiefs fan! Only God himself could take that away from me, but when I get to my great reward, I'll rejoin two bigger fans, my Mom and Dad.
That was just brutal
One of the dumbest things I’ve heard someone say in a while…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Y.E.S. Lanier
Did I forget something?
The people need to hear the dialogue that really went on inside those two weeks worth of meetings. Those xtranormal tubes were the funniest shit I have ever seen here. I know they are time consuming but you are a Rhodes Scholar in the Xtranormal Kingdom.
by stenerud's roost on Mar 18, 2011 2:34 PM CDT reply actions
Yes..... for new guys , like myself.
#1 OT Gabe Carimi (Wisconsin) #4 FB Owen Marecic (Stanford)
#2 NT Jerrel "POWE" (Ole' Miss) #5 WR Greg Salas (Hawaii)
#3 G/C John Moffitt (Wisconsin) #5 ILB Mario Harvey (Marshall)
#7 C Alex Linnenkohl (Oregon State)
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