Should we believe the Media spin on Haley as a villain?
by Turkeyleg on Feb 4, 2011 9:39 AM CST
Email
Print
Haley isn't easy to work with. Haley doesn't use Jamaal enough. Haley won't shake McDaniels' hand. The headlines in the media, and many of the blurbs here at AP, are aimed at what Haley isn't. But perhaps, before we focus on what he isn't and what the Chiefs do not have going for them, we should look at what we do have, and what the Chiefs and Haley want for the future. This is not a Kool-Aid supportive viewpoint, merely the other side of the coin. Head coaches are the leaders. They are the ones who make the calls. There are some other head coaches who make the offensive play calls. Are they called hard to deal with just because they control the team and make those calls? No. It all started with head butts with certain Terrell Owens and the speculations hasn't been let go of since. It hung on Haley when he first came aboard and the Brian Waters' incident was started up. Seems Mr. Waters is pretty happy nowadays, and haven't seen any other players disliking how things are going. So, just perhaps, things aren't that bad on the Chiefs' sidelines.
Haley was third in voting for Coach of the Year after turning the Chiefs around in the coach's second year at the helm. The one person at the head of the class, may be very well what Haley and Pioli are trying to emulate in their coaching approaches....ok, really no try about it, it is what the Chiefs are doing. Look at how the Patriots produce coaches. The Dante Scarnecchia is currently assistant head coach/offensive line coach. Enter Bill Muir to the OC position at Chiefs (although will that be his title? Most of the Patriots staff beyond Belichick aren't household names, until they hit their prime. It is the Belichick show. And he was given the Coach of the Year award for his work.
So before many even say it, am I comparing Haley to Belichick?! Not necessarily. I am just pointing out that Piolio is creating the same formula for success.
But back to the media spin. Since not much news comes out of One Arrowhead Drive, the media is left to its own devices. That leads to hyped up headlines...how else are you going to capture the imagination out of readers? Stating, well no news out of Arrowhead tight lips today folks, isn't going to cut it. But the best thing to really do is to ignore the media spins on the whats and whys of they do or do not like Haley. Let's focus on the good thing we got going at Arrowhead.
I have no problem with the choice made for new OC (or assistant head coach?). I just think the timing is a bit earlier then I would have thought. Pioli is fast tracking the Chiefs' growth process, obviously. I was guessing another year, maybe two before Haley stepped into the Belichick role. I really thought another period of veteran coaching help would come in while Haley got the QB and receivers, specials teams, etc. in step. I was wrong.
But, I'll step up with another viewpoint, given the new circumstances. A quarterback coach will have to be brought in to work with Haley, Sirianni and Cassel/backups. If this fast track is going to keep from derailing, this will be a KEY.
So let the speculation begin, who will that be?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
90 comments
|
3 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Personally, I love it this way
Do you think Patriot fans care that the world hates Belichick? Of course not . . . Apathy is the ENEMY! Haley does things his way and as long as that makes us win, he’ll be around. The Bill Muir choice is simply for stability, something this team needs. Muir (or Haley) can call run, run, pass just like Weiss! I have not had an issue with Weiss leaving simply because it was the execution that improved on offense, not the playcalling. Regardless, this team will win with defense and running game . . . Go Chiefs!
Well
I certainly do not remember Sean Peyton getting any hate when he was calling all the shots for the Saints SB run.
I was very skeptical of the hire at first. But once I realize that many offensive Head Coaches run the show it makes it better.
"Nobody scares us," Dion Gales said. "Where I’m from, it ain’t how big or small a man is, it’s the size of the fight in them.
"I’ll be doggone if I let another man beat me, that’s just my attitude. I’m not scared of another man."
by Matt_Grbac on Feb 4, 2011 10:07 AM CST via mobile reply actions
This is a point I tried to make in one of the posts yesterday.
In fact if you include Belichick as a playcaller 14 of the 22 participants in the last 11 Super Bowls have a play calling(on one side of the ball or the other) Head Coach with a so called “puppet” at coordinator.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
After this year it will be 15 of 24
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Feb 4, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I generally prefer to see the playcaller on the ground, rather than up in the booth.
And I don’t care what the division of labor is, so long as it works. Ironically, the better the offense is, talent-wise, the more likely I’d give up the playcalling. With a team still in trickeration mode, the playcaller’s going to take a lot of heat, because he has to be unconventional. And unless KC gets a lot more physical up front, the playcaller’s going to take a lot of heat in 2011. The 2011 schedule is not looking good for a finesse team that’s prone to being pushed around by the better d-lines in the league.
I know enough to know I don't know very much.
Agree.
Also, listening to Muir yesterday, I liked his attitude. He seems like a no-bs straight-shooter, who obviously knows a lot about the game. And for all the talk about his age: you don’t stay in the NFL as long as he has in any capacity without knowing how to adapt to change. Good for him, good for Haley and GOOD for the Chiefs!
I like when he said
“I know who calls the play is a big issue for the media around here” basically saying “get over yourselves, you’re idiots”
Sign Shaun Smith.
Yeah, Haley is a loser.......
NOT!…. here’s a guy that turned a billion dollar professional sports franchise around, motivated young athletes to perform at a high level, and changed the whole attitude of a piss-poor bunch of losers. I am really sick and tired of the grief some fans want to unload on a master motivator, organizer, and leader! Proof is in the pudding, guys. and the results he achieved. How soon we forget what a mess this guy took on…..are the end results just not good enough for us? who cares who calls the plays, who cusses out whom? We had a bunch of losers. Hell, we had a team in total disarray. It is incredulous to me that anyone wants to give Todd Haley any grief at all! I don’t care if Todd Haley screams, punches, kicks, and howls like a dog! He can shave whenever he wants, and can pick on, pick up, and shit-can anyone he wants and he is still MY HERO.
by i'minCostaRicachiefsfan on Feb 5, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Haley acts like a little brat.
He reminds me of Frank Martin, who also rubs me the wrong way. It’s one thing to be an asshole like Lombardi or Parcells or Branson but you have to do it with a touch of class, which Haley is horrible at…that and in game decisions.
Whiny little brats.
Chiefs Might
by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 4, 2011 10:44 AM CST reply actions
Are you talking about 09 or 10?
I dont remember too many time when Haley was being a jackass to his players this year. He yells at the refs all the time but that is something some coaches do.
Haley was an ass to his player in 09 but was a different coach in 2010.
by Raiderhater1 on Feb 4, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Good point
I’m afraid Mr. Hyde comes out in 2011. I might be wrong, have been before. My gut just says, “look out!”
I do believe Haley's past that, I think he matured a lot LAST year, and it showed THIS year (2010)
what concerns me is divided attention during the game … no way he can focus on calling plays AND keep track of every other aspect of the game as well
when Herm was here it as a HUGE deal that he wasn’t a good “game manager” … Haley himself isn’t “great” at it, and this can only make things harder for him in those terms
micromanagement is almost never a good idea … and I can’t believe that Belichick (the supposed “role model” here) was calling plays in his first or secnd year of being HC … and remember too, before coming to KC Haley had only ONE YEAR of actual OC and playcalling experience (ie, Arizona) in an environment where that was his ONLY function: be OC and call plays
he has a much bigger mandate here as HC … good leaders LEAD and DELEGATE to others … hire the people to do your bidding (ie, OCs to generate a game plan that you approve of) and let them do their job (including playcalling) while you focus on yours (being HC)
if Haley had been HC for 4 or 5 years and THEN wanted to take over playcalling duties, I’d feel much more comfortable about it, but he’s still getting his feet wet as it were … he’s had only 2 years of HC experience, that’s not much at all
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
please explain Sean Payton to me then
I know what you are saying about easing into it but coaches do it all the time.
Sign Shaun Smith.
been around longer and more experience at higher level than Haley
he was OC for Giants under Jim Fassel back in 2000 and 2001 (Fassel took over playcalling in 2002), and then under Parcells with the Cowboys as assistant head coach and quarterbacks coach in 2003 and 2004, then assistant head coach/passing game coordinator in 2005, then to the Saints as HC in 2006 … 6 years at that higher level of coaching before becoming HC
Haley didn’t become OC until 2007 and 2008, and didn’t start calling plays until late in 2007 with Arizona … 2 yrs at high level of coaching before becoming HC
that’s a bit more higher-level experience than Haley has had, and more experience at play-calling … that’s all I got :-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
good argument
btw, what an egomaniac Fassel must be for wanting to call the plays.
Sign Shaun Smith.
Good post Ups.
And that’s a good tree for Haley to spring out of…I just hope you’re fears (and mine) are off, and that he isn’t biting off more than he can chew.
I think ’11 will show us that Haley the playcaller can delagate a lot more effectively than Haley in ’09.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
this is a Haley thread...no?
Chiefs Might
by chicks_love_chiefs on Feb 5, 2011 1:36 AM CST up reply actions
You really are just personally irked by Haley? Well BOO frickin' hoo.
Get over YOURSELF. Waaaaahhhhh we’ve doubled and tripled our win toatal in just two years…waaaaaaaaahhhhhhh! I don’t like the coach, waaaaaaaaah. Pathetic. Get a different storyline, cause I only seem to see you post to shit on the coach.
"It's not always going to be pretty; and that's alright..."
Those that wish potentially fatal diseases or other ill-fortunes on others, are the LOWEST form of trash!
naybe he's saying that Haley should get over himself
he’s entitled to his opinion, just as you’re entitled to yours … your response is really no better than his comment
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Everyone has an opinion!
You have yours and I have mine. I think Haley is doing a commendable job! I love his transparency recognizing his own need to change and grow as a person and as a coach.
I’m sure Haley has his issues just like most people. But to call him names because he rubs you the wrong way is very, very subjective, to say the least. Just exactly why do you think he is “a little brat” and “an asshole”? And define what you see or saw in Lombardi, Parcells, and Branson that qualifies them as have “a touch of class”?
Often times our comments about others reveals more about US than it does about the person of whom we are speaking.
Media spun
Haley has “sideline clashes” with TO and Boldin. Translation: Haley doesn’t let players walk over him and they have to do what the team needs them to do, period.
Haley “runs off” two OCs in two seasons. Translation: Haley has a vision of how the offense of his team should look. The first OC didn’t share that vision, so good luck to you. No hard feelings, especially now that he’s a Head Coach. The 2nd OC took a job elsewhere for whatever reason, wasn’t fired, didn’t publically resign, didnt bash the team, Haley, or anyone. There wasn’t even any credible rumors to lend to a “rift” between Haley and Weis.
"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter
I agree...
Too many people cant get past how he acted to his players last year. Haley moved on and so should most of the people who cant…
by Raiderhater1 on Feb 4, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Plus, all of the Players seems to like Haley
and they responding by taking the AFC West title.
Todd Haley can beat the players with a fly swatter and I won’t care if they win.
We will deal with the what if they lose when that starts happening. Either way I will support this team.
meh...
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 4, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
wouldnt be surprising if Sirianni gets promoted to qb's coach
Then when Muir leaves, Carthon will take over as OC, then when Carthon goes Sirianni will be named OC. Then Haley will be able to stroke his own ego and say he developed Sirianni from quality control of the offense to an OC in the NFL, and will have the first branch of the Todd coaching tree
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 4, 2011 11:05 AM CST reply actions
Why does he need to stroke his own ego?
He has you to do it for him :-)
"That was a good job. It wasn't pretty and we made it tougher than it had to be but that's alright. That's alright this time." - Todd Haley
Win pretty, win ugly, win easy, win tough, it doesn't matter
Didnt you know
that is the plan of every HC in the NFL? But your right no HC wants to promote from within if they have the people to do it. Why keep someone who knows exactly how the team works over someone who has no clue about the players or the system… What the hell is he thinking
by Raiderhater1 on Feb 4, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
The only issue I have with Sirianni doing this
Is that yes, he is good on play analysis, etc and maybe on mechanics of helping QB review and prep for game, but he is lacking in body mechanics work…we’ll need a young up and comer to step into a offensive coaching role who handle that and take over for Sirianni when he moves up ladder….or go get Zorn!
This I like.
…and Sirianni can pick Zorn’s brain about QB play (being a former reciever and all).
I’d also go for a Chris Palmer, Dan Henning, hell—even a Carl Smith. A vet who’s played and/or coached the QB position for awhile, and can teach our young staff another trick or two.
Ups suggested Steve DeBerg awhile back. I wonder if the Mothership is listening ;) lol
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
I like Haley...
the players seem to too
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
by SFLChief on Feb 4, 2011 11:06 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
And this...
Is an important thing many are ignoring.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
by MNchiefsfan on Feb 4, 2011 1:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Sports writers need to fill space and interest audience.
1-QBs and HCs are most visible targets.
2- Controversy creates interest.
3- Create a QB or HC contoversy if there isn’t one.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
by CatChief on Feb 4, 2011 11:59 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
hey, be nice to Jason ... he supports Willie for HoF
you could be right about him not making it this year … lot of tough competition, though not sure all 3 top WRs make it in the same year … if I had to go with one, it would be Carter
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I have no idea what's going on
But I find it entertaining when people make all the assumptions that are being thrown around right now, then call optimists “Kool-Aid Drinkers” for believing players will improve or things like that.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Ouch!
MN, you got a mean streak in you. I LIKE IT! LOL
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
which media member called him a villain?
this is bordering on the paranoid
The only measure of true success in the NFL is the Vince Lombardi trophy. Anything less is a rationalization.
Agreed
Why is it spin? What’s the angle? I just don’t understand that argument. What is the media trying to accomplish?
Drama. Isn't the point to be read and talked about?
And it’s about the same amount of leap to ASSUME that the media is just trying to create drama as it is to ASSUME Haley and Pioli are lying about the reasons Weis is leaving, and to ASSUME that Haley is hiring Muir to be nothing more than a figurehead.
I don’t know is either is right, but both sides are making pretty big assumptions right now…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
So what? Haley is a horse's ass...
Just like the rest of us. It all comes down to this…can he get it done come crunch time? I’m pessimistically optimistic.
Yeah a horse's ass that has taken a 2 and 14 team to a division title in just 2 years.
Yeah he sure is an asshole. A winning one, but still an ass, right?
PFFFT!
"It's not always going to be pretty; and that's alright..."
Those that wish potentially fatal diseases or other ill-fortunes on others, are the LOWEST form of trash!
is he an ass?
maybe, maybe not … is it a good thing if he IS an asshole? not to me …
that said, I don’t think Haley’s an asshole, he seems pretty cool over this past year, I like what he’s done, and he’s done a great job with the team
that said, he also had a LARGE influx of good, new talent in 2010, he also had a VERY soft schedule to work with (statistically the easiest in the NFL by far), he also had the help and expertise of two of the most respected coordinators in the NFL in Weis and Crennel
the differences in 2009 and 2010 were astounding … beyond the records, Haley was a “differenet person” in his demeanor and approach, and I’m VERY pleased at that
in addition, Haley had excellent help from OC and DC and he allowed them to do their jobs (at least I assume he allowed them to do their jobs) and I do hope he allows the new OC do his job (including allowing the OC to call the plays so that Haley can give his FULL attention to the game on Sundays … that’s another huge difference from 2009 to 2010)
so there … I’ve said some VERY positive things about Haley
happy now?
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
No probs UPS but my comment was directed at Mr. 12t up there.
"It's not always going to be pretty; and that's alright..."
Those that wish potentially fatal diseases or other ill-fortunes on others, are the LOWEST form of trash!
understood
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
question
Somewhere else there was discussion as to whether Haley is courageous. Ok, we can all have different definitions of “courageous”. However, many people (maybe you too) for some reason (thanks Whitlock et al) think, without any basis I have seen, that Haley is egotistical.
Don’t you think that the fact that he hired Weis and Crennel KNOWING that doing so carried the risk that any improvement in the team would be credited to them (like you did up there) rather than him show that he is NOT egotistical and is “courageous”? He cared about winning, not whether he or those guys got the credit.
Of course, I know your next argument is that Pioli MADE him hire those guys. I strongly disagree. Pioli and Haley have both said on several occasions that all coaching hires are the responsibility of the HC. From day one, Haley said it would take him 2 years to put together the staff he wanted.
Finally, the influx of talent is something every team gets every year to varying levels of success. Pioli deserves a hell of a lot of credit along with our scouts. However, Haley had a hand in those selections too. And, even more, he and his staff are who coached them and the rest of the team up. Remember we all moaned when we didn’t get a NT? We still need to make that addition but it turned our far better than we expected. That’s due to the coaches getting the same players to raise their game.
Sign Shaun Smith.
well, again kabrink ... you're trying to put thoughts and words down as being mine when they aren't
I suppose the bottom line is this ..,
A) it can’t be both ways … Haley can’t be blamed for all that happens that’s bad, nor should he get credit for all that happens that’s good
B) of course, you can do it the other way: Haley gets all the credit for the the good and positive things, but then he must also be blamed for anything bad and negative
you can’t have your Haley cake and eat it, too … but then again, maybe the reality is somewhere in the middle …
C) maybe he’s not so egotistical after all, but maybe too he’s not so courageous, either … maybe the whole turnaround this is all because of Haley’s vision, or maybe new players, schedule, coaching (by everyone) had a LITTLE something to do with it after all … maybe it was indeed Haley, maybe it was pure luck and a cosmic accident
yes the team turned out better than many of us expected (those who said we’d go 16-0 and would win the SB this year must be terribly disappointed, I’m sure)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
we can agree
to the old saying, “head coaches get too much of the credit for wins, and they get too much credit for losses.” Yes, I absolutely think that’s true. When I defend Haley it’s not because I think he has done everything by himself or that he is perfect. No, all the progress we’ve made is due to the whole organization from Clark down to the water boys. Totally. I just think he gets a lot of blame for made up and inconsequential things.
My hot points are when our fans instantly jump on the unsubstantiated BS that is foisted upon us by the KC press corp. I think it is indisputable, but unprovable by me, that the KC media has had a beef with the Chiefs since the day Pioli came to town and has been on a mission to “get them”, to denigrate them, to do whatever it takes including making up stories to eventually run them out of town. Do they (the press) think this raises their own significance? To me, none of these actions make them more significant to me. It makes them look like infantile little idiots to me and thereby discredited and unreliable as a source.
So, it irks me, when fans on here always jump on it, eat it up, encourage and enable it.
Sign Shaun Smith.
fair snuff, kabrink
and understand that sometimes when I criticize it doesn’t mean I hate the guy … it means I want things to work better, be better, etc
we may not be so far apart after all, overall
have a beer, it’s game day ;)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I would say "peace"
but I gather you’re for the Stealers and I’m for the Packers! Not really. This game is a tough one for me because it’s very hard to pick so will need to enjoy it just for the game. I don’t hate either of these teams and I like things that harken back to “tradition” and old school football – which this game supposedly does. Should be an awesome game.
Sign Shaun Smith.
agreed, should be a VERY good game
then too, I recall all too many that should have been good but ended up 59-3
yeah, I’m taking the Steelers … always liked their team AND organization, and I do think they’re the better team
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Good points...
Orginizations win…not D’s, or O’s, or coaching staffs. The only thing I, personally, can judge Haley on is how well the team is prepared, how hard they compete, and game time decisions. If the team doesn’t believe in his decisions, or preperation; they will fail to compete. So far it looks like they
" want" to believe in him. By this time next year we will see a team that is either all in, or still has doubt.
by 12t on Feb 6, 2011 2:04 PM CST up reply actions
Do we remember the coaches Haley worked with his first season?
I’d be pissed off and cussing half the time too..lot more stability this time around and he’s gotten a few years under him so nothing is going to be really “new”.
do we WANT to remember the players? :-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
not really
the point really is that people look at 2009 Haley and think 2011 will be exact same if he calls plays. This is one of the hugest fallacies out there. There have been mega change since then. Not to mention that Haley himself has said that a lot of that (yelling) was a method he used to shake up the place and weed out those who wouldn’t buy into being a hard working disciplined team. I think if he calls the plays he’ll be fine now.
Sign Shaun Smith.
oh, absolutely we have better players. a billion times better
far, far better and stronger and deeper team than 2009 (thankfully!) … and I mentioned above as well as many other times this past season that Haley has grown quite a bit since he first got here
my “argument” then (as both HC and OC) was there there’s just way too much to do as HC to do both, and I’ll stick to that (for now) … again, if he had a few more years in as HC, I’d likely change my mind on that as well, but I think he’s still learning how to be HC, and that’s a huge job
and again, during the game itself I’d rather his attention be on the TEAM as a whole instead of JUST the offense … I have no doubt he can call the plays, but then too: why can’t Muir? he’s going to design the plays, and figure out which ones they want to use for any given week, is he not capable?
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
as to Muir calling the plays
Umm, I guess my knee jerk and uninformed opinion, but real concern, is that he might be too conservative and just want to run the ball. There is really no evidence either way on how his biases are or how he would call. I just tend to suspect that Haley is the more “wide open” offense type of guy than Muir having come up through the receivers position.
Sign Shaun Smith.
most likely, yeah
of course, when the running game is working that conservatism can be a GOOD thing … same with the passing game, when it works sure, it’s great to air it out
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
same with a great passing game, no? :-)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
yes
but I’ve never advocated that. I advocate a balance offense that can do both well. And, if I recall, that’s what Haley has also said since day one. I think you would agree that even if our stats might show us to be “balanced” I don’t believe that our passing game is reliable and truly productive. There is work to do here.
Sign Shaun Smith.
I agree balance is good
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
to rephrase or use a different analogy ...
Haley has shown he’s a pretty good alligator wrestler, but he’s still learning the ropes at being a Master Swamp Drainer
he might be a very good salesman, but now he’s running the company (not JUST doing sales) and this isn’t a 5-man hamburger stand where the head guy just goes over to run the grill or work the register
I’d say he was a far better “game manager” this past year than he was in 2009, wouldn’t you? he had his head in the game at all levels, in all areas … that (to me) is what the HC is supposed to be doing on gameday
make sense?
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
If he has a guy he likes/trusts as passing game coach/QB coach, I think we see continued growth in '11.
That’s my hope at least.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
I noticed that same coaching staff doing a bang-up job in Buffalo...
And by bang-up I mean “good enough to lose,” same as they did in KC. I loved the Thiggy pistol-spread as much as the next Chief fan, but that’s not a winner’s offense…it’s a band-aid.
Good luck to Chan, Curt Modkins, and Bob Bicknell (among others) but I’m just not sure they’re headed for greatness.
But again—I’m just a fan, and am probably wrong.
/shrugs
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
well, not much to work with going in ... Gailey got the offense going at least some this year
gotta start someplace
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ups--here's a name for you, regarding our QB coaching position....
Dowell Loggains, successful TX highschool passer…longtime Razorback backup/holder…former Dallas Cowboy scout/QC (in Parcells’ last year there, I might add)…and current Tenn QC/QB coach/playcaller (after Coach Dinger got cancer).
Do a Google search; you’ll be impressed. I kind of am, actually—a guy who’s 5’5 running an NFL offense.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/sep/11/loggains-finds-fast-lane-to-the-nfl/
That’s one link of many; check it out. He’s a young/played the position/Parcells experience/right 53 kind of coach…to me at least.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Feb 5, 2011 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
nice find!
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award (I'd like to thank my producer, my director, all of my wonderful fans ... )
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
Come back, Jason!
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Dowell Loggains
I am very impressed by this guy
He seems to have a "Rudy " kind of mentallity that I think would fit well in KC.
He worked with Parcells and Haley, I have no idea how I have never heard of him. I bet he learned a lot about how to be a good QB coach in that Titans mess.
Did the Titans retain his services?
That is the question.
Good work rec
meh...
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 5, 2011 10:16 PM CST up reply actions
Right now, not sure if TEN is keeping him or not.
My guess? If the Titans internally hire, Loggains stays. Unless he gets another offer. Hey—look at our staff in ‘09, they were held over even though their version of this offense and Haley’s desired version were two different things.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
Maybe the Titans are looking at Winston Moss as HC
Whom in turn might hire Tom Clements.
Who knows, the more I think about this guy coming in to Coach Cassel the more I like it…
meh...
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 6, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
Well Munchak just got the Titans job
He said it was not going to be the same old team. I think they will draft another QB.
So who knows if Tennessee will keep Dowell Loggains or not.
That is definitely an interesting name to spell.
The Chiefs need a QB Coach…. maybe Munchak will let Dowell go and hire Warren Moon as his QB Coach. Who knows haha
meh...
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 7, 2011 9:32 PM CST up reply actions
"media" doesn't have to tell me anything
I’ve—we’ve all seen what a jackass Haley can be.
i like Haley's edge, and the main thing is this.
It seems to be effective, I do not look at what he did for DJ and Bowe as signs of him out of control.
He was a complete and utter jackass to both of them according to some. Well preach on brothers…. cause it worked. Haley can yell at everyone the whole entire game, and light KC Wolf on fire each week…. as long as it is effective. I am down.
Ill support the Chiefs either way, but I try to judge things for how I see them…
meh...
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 7, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions
You touch on an interesting point
that I think many here too readily dismiss; “…I try to judge things for how I see them…”
Just like you, there are others calling it as they see it, from the other side of the issue. Many people interpret Haley’s “edge” or “fire” as him being a jackass. I personally love fiery coaches and guys with an edge. That being said, for my personal preference, Haley crossed the line during his first season. I know he was frustrated with his crappy team (he knew what he had, hence the “guys off the street” comment), horrid officiating and overall lack of success. I was pissed and would have been more-so as a coach for that rubbish heap of a team.
That being said, every time we saw the guy he was lighting into someone…hardcore. It wasn’t like we wouldn’t see him on camera for 10 minutes at a time either (for those of you that blame the media for portraying him in a certain light), he was on after every third play, it seemed.
Bottom line; I like Todd Haley as the coach for the Chiefs. I like his fire. I liked him exponentially better THIS season than in season one. Why? Because this year, he looked like he had a brain in his head and at least an ounce (maybe two) of self-control. Ergo, I like him more when he has an OC and he can focus on his role as HC.
I haven't read the comment yet by C-b-o so I going to respond before hand.
You started out so well I thought. “…I try to judge things for how I see them…”
Please remember some of us played sports into college most of you probably did not though. Most of these guys have been playing competitive football for years. Do you really think the first time they heard Haley getting into their ass that they stopped in their tracks and said “Woah Hey you can’t treat us like that” or “Hey we are grown men don’t use those words”? Get real people. The yelling and getting some ass on a platter is a football coach. He had to set his standard high and let them know this was how things were going to be done and that Herm the Perm Edwards had been a MOMMA like figure to the Chiefs players and that was unacceptable now and he (Haley) expected more from them. Yes I think we all can say “well everyone doesn’t respond to that harsh treatment” or “if you have to be that way I would just rather play for someone else that’s not going to hurt my feelings”. I get it and I am sure that others get it also. Those are not the kind of players we want around. Haley may have said something like this “Nothing personnel gentlemen you just don’t fit in with how we are going to be doing things around here” or “I expect more from you that anyone has ever expected out of you and yes that includes your momma’s” we don’t know what was really said. Does it really matter though? How we see things from our sheltered view? Most of us that have been in a very competitive sport or even in the military get it for the most part. The others that don’t understand it its not your fault. Competitive sports is a nasty game sometimes. Its not for the weak of heart or mind.
I dont see 2009 as him angry because we was the OC
I just think Haley hates to lose.
Why people relate him being a raging ball of unprofessionalism to him calling the plays I don’t know. I think first year Todd Haley would have acted the same way if he had not fired Chan and didn’t wear a headset the entire game.
His behavior did improve in 2010 and I think it had more to do with the Chiefs starting out 3-0, then him not the calling plays.
meh...
by Chief-blinders-on on Feb 8, 2011 3:15 PM CST reply actions
I feel it also had to do with he got his message across the first year.
The players knew what to expect in 2010 and they came prepared. Those that didn’t you didn’t see around.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Arrowhead Pride
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley arrested again; now has more NFL arrests than NFL sacks
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
