Poll: Will The Chiefs Feature Jamaal Charles Front-And-Center?
by Matt Conner on Feb 12, 2011 1:26 PM CST
in 2010 Kansas City Chiefs Season
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PrintDoug Farrar over at Football Outsiders has put together a list of key questions this off-season for each team. When it came to the Chiefs, Farrar interestingly focused on Jamaal Charles vs. Thomas Jones -- a drum often beat by FO this season -- and asked the question of whether the Chiefs will learn the same lesson the Titans learned from Chris Johnson's explosiveness.
Specifically, Farrar brings up the head coaching preferences of both longtime Titans coach Jeff Fisher and Todd Haley for the power running game. Within that context, he wonders if the Chiefs will place Charles front-and-center next season:
The team has expressed at least two concerns when asked about more carries for Charles -- his ability to be an every-down back, and head coach Todd Haley's preference for a power-running game that goes back to his days working under Bill Parcells. Jones is more of an inside bruiser, while Charles blasts outside of the Chiefs' zone slide blocking plays. However, when former Tennessee Titans head coach Jeff Fisher was presented with Johnson's production, he put away his power-running preferences dating back to Eddie George and rode a faster horse. Haley and the Chiefs may be wise to do the same.
It's a decent argument. Then again, Haley's 2010 rotation carried the Chiefs to the playoffs, saved Charles for a whole season and garnered two of the Top 20 rushers in the NFL for the Chiefs. What do you believe will happen? Will Charles be featured as the primary back a la Chris Johnson next season? Will Haley continue the same type of rotation?
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I think we'll see more of the same.
Charles may be the designated starter, but I doubt if his carries will increase significantly. I would hope they better pick their spots to use him, though.
YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!
I don't
Think Charles could finish a whole season as the primary and I don’t think he would be as explosive even if he could. Jones didn’t have a bad season and our line really wasn’t built for a runner like him so I think with a bigger stronger line next year we could still see 2 thousand yard rushers with more TDs combined
by Kmillz2525 on Feb 12, 2011 1:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I like things as they are
but then again, I’ve never troubled myself with being a Fantasy Football team owner. I’d just hate to see them run the wheels off of Jamaal. I think things are working pretty well as they are and a somewhat fresh Jamaal that has the luxury of a Thomas Jones carrying part of the load is a Jamaal that can take us deep into the playoffs.
The homer in me says Daniel Thomas would make a great Thomas Jones of the future.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 12, 2011 1:48 PM CST reply actions
The Husker in me hates to admit that I would be exicted to see Daniel Thomas in the Thomas Jones role.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
Best of all
you won’t find a better kid.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 12, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
As long as he doesn't play the Blackshirts he can run well :)
One of the founding members of The Super Duper Matt Cassel Fanclub.
We all have the right to our own opinions, its just that mine are right.
My quest for soberiety is an ongoing struggle.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 12, 2011 4:08 PM CST up reply actions
If Battle has another camp and preseason like he did last year can they really ignore it again?
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
I agree...
when they brought Battle in late in the games he punished the defensive line.
Go Chiefs!!!!
for three yards at a time
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
The goal line decides how many yards one can get.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
4 runs at 3 yards equal a 1st down...
Go Chiefs!!!!
Can you flag pics?
Draft
Berry 2010
Castonzo 2011
Floyd 2012 (24th)
FA
Jones 2010
ANY BAD-ASS WR AVAILABLE! 2011
Tony Gonzalez (IND) 2012
by Chiefs_swagger on Feb 12, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, you use push the "actions" button and hit "rec"... but don't hit the "flag" button or your computer will explode.(=
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
Can you flag profile pics that look like the Raiders?
Draft
Berry 2010
Castonzo 2011
Floyd 2012 (24th)
FA
Jones 2010
ANY BAD-ASS WR AVAILABLE! 2011
Tony Gonzalez (IND) 2012
by Chiefs_swagger on Feb 12, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
FUCK LJ! you should be banned for 27 hours from AP for that pic
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Easy now, I made sure he wasn't wearing a Chiefs uniform in the pic... that has to count for something.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
by BigRedChief on Feb 12, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Battle came in during garbage time when we were winning
So The defense was keying off on the run. Also he’s almost unstoppable with a FB in front of him on 2nd/3rd and 1 which we were one of the worst teams in the league doing this year.
"Success is never ending, failure is never final."
by GenericBrand on Feb 12, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
Battle picked up a big 4th and 1 that kept the drive a live for a game clinching td
He should have been used more in those short yardage situations
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
That case can be made.
He showed a real knack for keeping his legs moving, manufacturing yards out of virtually nothing. He also has good ball skills. Ya gotta like a guy who will get positive yards, no matter what. You get a guy who’ll get you 2 yards against all-out jumbo package run defense, and 4+ yards when the D doesn’t sell out and you have an offense that can mix it up. If he could get on the field, more, those ball skills would start coming thru pretty quickly, but he still has the “rookie jitters,” in the sense that he’s mostly unproven in games as an all-around back, so one drop might be all he gets and he’s done. Be cool to see a big-back set, because KC has a good number of guys around 240 who can run and catch the ball. Sadly, none of the bunch scouts as a dominant blocker. C’mon, Mo’!
I kind of think he’d be in there more if he were a devastating blocker on top of the ball skills. He really hasn’t impressed me much in that category. But it’s hard to judge, because of his limited opportunities. His biggest showcase was really garbage time in the preseason, although he DID come through at least once in regulation at a key moment, as someone pointed out, above.
I know enough to know I don't know very much.
Battle has been a Chief for three years already
Where is all that you talk about?
Why was he not the option prior to Jones being signed?
I have more questions cause I am 5 years old?
Why does Battle have 103 yards all-purpose in 3 years?
Do we really think he is the answer if Jones goes down?
am i done know?
Yeah
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
Those are some of my concerns with Battle
RBs aren’t wine, they don’t get better with age. Some learn to play smarter and can extend their career (Marcus Allen), but they don’t usually become faster. If an RB hasn’t broken loose after three years in the league, I don’t know why folks would expect much more production after they start getting older.
by Chiefs4Life on Feb 13, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
They split carries well.
Regardless of who starts, it’s worked VERY well.
Also, gameplan makes the difference. Every games unique. Continue to utilize them similarly, yet creatively….and safely!
Draft
Berry 2010
Castonzo 2011
Floyd 2012 (24th)
FA
Jones 2010
ANY BAD-ASS WR AVAILABLE! 2011
Tony Gonzalez (IND) 2012
It really seems like Jones is there to probe and take care of the ball, while KC figures out where they might pop a seam.
It seems to transpire as though Jamaal’s set up to get a big run, without having to run into a wall of defenders, while the Chiefs figure out the best blocking scheme and/or as part of a plan to get a gap in one spot as a result of attacking a different gap with Jones. I’ve seen Jones turn into a ball of steel in a sea of defenders and just pop right back up after the whistle, when Jamaal maybe would’ve been torn in two or lost the ball.
He knows what to do and how to do it, but he is not as compact and powerful as Jones. Some of his runs are “on principle” runs designed to force the D to bite on the play fake. You have to do some “no matter what” runs, so the D will honor the run or give up some gashes against the “no matter what” runs you call when the D does NOT honor them. Jones has a fair number of 7- and 8-yard runs mixed in there that are virtually game-deciding because they stuck with it. Defense still has to honor the play fake or get gouged by the run.
I know enough to know I don't know very much.
I agree with this
You have to do some "no matter what" runs, so the D will honor the run
Would it be nice if they have some affect with the jab while jabbing?
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
As much as I'd love to see Jamal "blow it up" next year,
he was somewhat properly used. Maybe a few more carrie and a rushing title would make me happier. That said, it would really suck if the increased carries decreased his effectiveness or caused a serious injury. Without Weis calling plays, he may be more effective with the same amount of carries.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
I agree with Willie on the point I would not want to run the wheels of Charles.
Tennessee definitely ran the wheels of Chris Johnson. As I have posted earlier, I would prefer a new young big back to take Jones spot rushing the inside. I have brought up Mikel Leshoure who would be 8-9 years younger than Jones and for the 4 million tied up in Jones for 2011 would cost about the same front end dollars for the 21st pick.
Just try to STOP US
Several commentors have been calling for a bigger back in the draft.
I think that would be a mistake. Jackie Battle is a pretty decent banger and would most likely “git er done”.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
Hold off and take Daniel Thomas in a later round... he is a versatile stud.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
I think the difference is the burst factor between the two
I will double check though
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by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 2:05 PM CST up reply actions
We should draft this guy in the later rounds...
by ravenhawk on Feb 12, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Leshoure 281 attempts 6.0 ypa
Thomas 298 attempts 5.3 ypa
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by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 2:11 PM CST up reply actions
Difference was Thomas WAS KSU's offense.
I’m not saying Leshoure isn’t an outstanding prospect also.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
and if people thought Cassel had trouble completing a pass
Coffman absolutely stinks and Thomas was running against an 8 man front constantly. Some of the pressure was taken off of him when they inserted Klein at QB, but to put it all in perspective, Klein completed 2 of 4 passes in a win against Texas. K-State was a running team and Thomas was the horse.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 12, 2011 2:22 PM CST up reply actions
If Charles gets 275-300 carries he gets 2,000 yards easy
Charles was coming off shoulder surgery in the offseason last year. Was held out of any kind of contact until almost the end of training camp. You can train, run, and do all the drills you want, but you have to get used to getting hit. That was probably one of the main reasons Jones was starting, as soon as Charles was in football shape he started getting more carries from the middle of the season on. He almost won the rushing title with 50 less carries, and could of set a new NFL record in yards per carry. The kid should be getting the ball as many times as he wants
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:00 PM CST reply actions
Maybe he wants more carries in his career than he does in a season.
Don’t pound the stud RB… it never pays off in the long run.
Conserve him till the playoffs and then let the dog off the leash.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
if he doesnt get carries we wont make the playoffs
The offense would be nothing without Charles, you seen what happens to the offense in the games where the running game was slowed down. Cassel couldnt do squat. Besides the avg RB career isnt very long, his time to shine is now
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:10 PM CST up reply actions
20 carries per game equals 320 per season
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
And he shouldn't
How many times did we see him get gimpy during games? There’s no need to “Chris Johnson” him and hurt his effectiveness by going for stats.
What I’d like to see is our “other” RB (whether it’s TJ or someone else) do a better job getting yards efficiently.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
yeah Charles avg 14 carries
Jones avg 15 carries with a 3.7 yds per attempt for the season are we going to pay him 3.9 million next year at age 33?
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
We pay him but I think his role reduces in favor of another back... be that Battle or Daniel Thomas or Roy Helu Jr.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
Did Jackie Battle play for NU too :)
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
Sorry
I don’t want Helu at all, the term inconsistent comes to mind
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind Roy
but Crick would sure look good in red and gold in 2012.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 12, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions
Crick is a DT and I don't think he could properly play NT or make the transition to DE.
Too bad too because he is monster strong never stops… I’m gonna miss him after next season.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
I have to agree with BigRed here.
He wouldn’t be an ideal NT but I think he could be a good DE. He’s solid against the run, can collapse the pocket and his motor never stops.
One of the founding members of The Super Duper Matt Cassel Fanclub.
We all have the right to our own opinions, its just that mine are right.
My quest for soberiety is an ongoing struggle.
by nateforchiefs on Feb 12, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
The only inconsistancy was our terrible OC but that's been fixed.
Roy has trouble staying healthy as the “main” back but as a spot runner he would be an excellent option to have. Very explosive.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
According to some
That’s exactly what we should do.
TJ was pretty effective for the first 11 or so games and then the bottom just fell out. Whether that be because of the passing game or if he got gassed, that cannot happen again if we’re going for a playoff run.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
if you look at the actual stats
I disagree
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by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
In our first 10 games
He averaged above his season average for YPC 6 times. In the last 6? Once. That’s all I’m saying.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I posted his game stats below
on a link.
Should we expect one member of our committee to have those stats. Could we do much better up the gut with someone else.
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:20 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, we've already been down this road...
Why are you still arguing with someone who agrees with you? :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Cause I Love to argue?
I do it on AP alllllll the time :)
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:23 PM CST up reply actions
Fair enough
It’ll give me practice for law school I suppose…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I think some of that had to do with the teams we started seeing...they had bigger guys on the line(oakland) and gave us a tough time
Weigmann and Richardson went from “good” to….a 38 plus year old center, and a swing backup tackle
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
yeah, dont see the huge dominating middle of a line on either of those teams that gave us issues against teams like baltimore, oakland etc
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Indy shut him down
cleveland shut him down
St. Louis shut him down
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
ok. so thats all on jones?
most backs need blocking…period.
charles seems to be so fast that hes 2.3 yards ahead of others.
personally, I think its RIDICULOUS to put it all on jones.
I think its more on the fact that we block far better on the outside, and on runs that charles excels at using our ZB scheme…then when jones uses the pound it up the gut, we dont get a lot of space because we lack that center to give us said space.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
also tony moeaki and branden albert play a small part in a lot of jones' runs...they are the best blockers on the team
sorry waters, but people get older
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Do you want the Chiefs to get better?
Do we have to fdraft an entire offensive line so Jones does not turn 33?
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
are you kidding me?
the chiefs dont need an entire offensive line.
its not even worth responding to you at this point….
it really really isnt
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Maybe a 32 year old back is done
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions
To be fair
CLE shut down JC as well (part of the reason I want Rogers on our D-line). But other than that, I’m with you
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I read that Rogers is much better in a 4-3 Defense
not a great 2-gap eater like what we want. I hope the Skins take him so they got two under achieving NT’s on their roster
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:21 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know about all that
But I know that Rogers was killing our interior line when we played them in a way Edwards doesn’t kill anyone.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Gotta do all the legwork :(
Which is why it is somewhat surprising we’re getting a glut of 3-4 teams looking at Rogers to soothe their nose tackles. We know why they’re doing it. Desperation. Rogers is a good player and he has the right size. So put him on the nose and watch him go.
He’ll manhandle centers in one on one match ups, no doubt. The amount of times he did it this year in a limited role tells us that (if you don’t believe me ask Jonathan Goodwin or the Saints, or Jeff Faine of Tampa what they think). But he’ll also struggle to cope with being double teamed, and it can breed an ill-disciplined side of his game that sees him lose leverage when he tries getting inside.
http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/02/11/shaun-rogers-worth-the-risk-and-then-some/
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by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:48 PM CST up reply actions
Hey, I believe them
But I also know what I saw. One guy single-handedly destroying our line.
And if he’s manhandling centers one-on-one, that’ll mean he demands a double team, right? Which means 3 other guys who are getting single-teamed :)
I like that.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Well we made the big dance this season using the current formula so I think it's working out okay.
When the avg RB has a big year teams tend to over use him the next season thus shortening his career. The next thing you know is you’re watching Larry Johnson running into the back of an o-lineman squeezing out 2.7 yards per carry.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
Charles is in no way shape or form like LJ
That comparison is ludacris
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:18 PM CST up reply actions
You're right, LJ was a much bigger back and was capable of taking the pounding... untill he wasn't.
Charles isn’t built to take 30-40 direct hit per game.
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
20-25 at most
When including the passing game. Any more than that and we’re just asking for trouble.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
Although I can understand if exceptions are made
In individual games, when we’re really gunning for a win.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
i think 15-20 carries and 5 catches a game would do him good
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
Noone is disagreeing with you there
but put him at 30 or more a game and his effectiveness is going to decline rapidly.
by Chief Willie Wildcat on Feb 12, 2011 2:28 PM CST up reply actions
20 and 5 is too much to me....
I prefer to see 15-18 touches
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
15 and 5 maybe
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
they have two different running styles
Charles doesnt take very many hard hits, defenders dont get clean shots on him usually
by ChiefDailyBaked on Feb 12, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
As MNchiefsfan said:
How many times did we see him get gimpy during games?
What makes you think giving him significantly more carries wouldn’t hold him back?
It’s alot harder to be explosive when you are nursing an injury or two…
Cornstar!
Rock out with your stalk out!
I think they used Charles perfectly
..he isn’t that big and they kept him fresh.
I believe that Charles needs to be paired with a bigger back. As well as I like Jones, he is
not enough of a factor to really benefit Charles. We need a true FB type running back that can take the pressure off Charles and also block for him.
depends on game situation to me
For the most part I like how they used him last year. But I don’t think you hold him to x number of runs or touches just to “save” him. If the game situation allows for that then you do. If its a close game number of touches goes out the door.
I think game importance matters as well
Do you over use him in Week 2 against a stout run defense that has been shutting him down all day if it’s a close game?
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
What bothered me...
They seemed to try and force virtually the same split late, regardless of the score. In some close games, late, I wanted them to leave Jones pretty much on the bench unless needed. Conversely, in games with a comfortable lead, I wanted them to leave Charles pretty much on the bench unless needed. But those two different situations didn’t seem to affect the rotation.
YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!
Agreed
The coach speak that they were “interchangeable” just didn’t seem feasible. I can only HOPE that it was more to throw off opponents in not knowing what type of play we were going to run depending on the back in the game. However, didn’t Suggs say something about that 4th down play in the playoffs, something like knowing what they would run depending on if Jones or Charles was in the game???
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
You guys are just not getting the whole idea
for them both to be as effective as they are, they have to play in the same fasion as they did. It’s about the offense being run the way it is being run. Somebody (I think Mills) brought up the fact that AZ did the same thing with Hightower and James. There were many running plays that went up the middle for little game, but it is part of the overall game plan. It is funny that there is this much ‘discussion’ over a running game that was the BEST in the league last year. Just because you don’t like the way they used the players does not make it any less effective. It’s gonna be the same game next season. Let’s just hope that we have set up the system and have improved WRs to make the passing game better. If that happens, this offense will be able to score against ANY defense, period. EP is all about using the run to set up the pass. I know that many of you ‘youngster’ believe that the NFL is all about the passing game, but an effecitive running game makes the passing game a lot more effective. You’re just gonna have to get over yourselves and get EXCITED!
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
yep plus 1
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Aiken Why do so many of your comments sound so condescending?
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:54 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Because we should be satisfied with the far inferior half of our rushing duo
Why do you ask?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
+20
Consider me not satisfied. :-)
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
I was just about to ask Aiken the same thing
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
Is it condescending to make a statement
rather than ask a question? All I am saying is that, to me, it is funny to read so many comments about how our running game from last year had so many inadequacies, yet it was number one in the league. It is the same issue that many here identified concerning Steelers fans bitching about Bruce Arians play calls, but having their team in the Super Bowl time and again because of what he was doing.
I apologize profusely for the youngster comments and the getting over yourselves. Jesus, do you guys walk around in your lives crying foul every time somebody says something that you don’t like? If so, you must spend an awful lot of time refuting the ‘way’ something is said rather than ‘what’ was said. When it boils down, it’s just my opinion. Take it easy. I didn’t take yours away.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Definition
con·de·scend·ing/ˌkändəˈsendiNG/Adjective
1. Acting in a way that insinuates a feeling of patronizing superiority.
2. (of an action) Demonstrating such an attitude.
I think you can be condesending by stating, asking, telling, etc.
And it was kind of condesending :-)
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
What exactly, about that post
meets the insiuating feeling of patronizing superiority measurement? I apologized for the youngster commment. Other than that, what I said was based on informed opinion using historical facts as a guide. Why is that condescending?
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Hightower and James are similar
JC and TJ are not. Not an apt comparison.
Also, that year ARI’s running game sucked. Why emulate that?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
yeah, not a fan of that comparison either. I like Hightower(off topic a bit) but...that run game they had was awful
didnt edge average somewhere near 3.2-3.4 ypc?
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
The point has little to do with either back
and more to do with the way that offense ran those backs. It’s bigger picture than who had x number of yards and what was their effeciency. It’s about setting up those defenses to look for particular things and/or keeping them off balance so that passing plays (when you do use them) have greater chance of success because the were not so obvious or expected. Frankly, I don’t care if it is TJ or anybody else, the offense would have been run the same. Does’t the way that LJ was used give you a clue? It’s part of the offense.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
For a bit more info on the way running backs are used in Parcells type offenses
Read this. The Chiefs offense since Haley arrived is really not much different (concerning how the backs have been used) than many of these other teams. Ah, History. From it one can learn much.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
I gotta tell you Aiken
Either someone hijacked your user name and password, or something/someone has rubbed you the wrong way one too many times. Most everyone on here respects your opinions, as well as appreciate the crap out of your positivity posts about the Chiefs, (even if they don’t necessarily agree with it), but you are definitely bordering on going too far with trying to get EVERYONE to see what you see in these comments about the running game.
Just my opinion….
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
Why do you feel that way?
What is wrong with getting you to see what I see? I don’t understand how that is going too far.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Definitely not used to seeing such....
I don’t want to use the word again, but it just seems condesending. Again, I know most of us hate to use the phrase, but it does come off a bit “be a better fan”-ish, if that makes sense :-)
I’m sure I’m reading into it too much, but clearly a few other people picked up on it too. Just making an observation myself, but I respect your opinion regardless. And I guess it comes off like you aren’t respecting others’ opinions, which is definitely NOT like you
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
For the record
I respect all opinions here. At the same time, when I feel like I have identified something that seems to be playing out, I guess I can ‘go too far’ in trying to get folks to see my point. I kind of look at this forum as debate. Maybe I need to look at it as a more banal arena of stated opinions that do not wish to be challenged, rather than a place where vigorous debate is welcomed. You cannot champion an idea without passionate, hearttelt verbage combined with fact. I simply do not understand the point of discussion without conviction. ;>)
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Choosing the debate with the proper person
is awesome :)
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 14, 2011 6:44 PM CST up reply actions
I agree Aiken
But even on those throw away plays up the middle one does hope for more than 1 yard on a keep them honest play.
I really don’t think we would be touching this subject if the Chiefs had 2 more good WR’s and a couple of upgrades on the o-line. I also think that the days of have one feature RB are gone. I’m not saying it couldn’t be done by a few teams, but most teams now feature 2 RB’s.
I don’t have a problem with the way we run the ball, splitting the carries will only pay off for J.C in the long run. I love the work ethic T.Jones has and i believe it has rubbed off on several other Chiefs players. I do how ever think we could draft someone in this years draft that could take his position in the future, and that is Stanley Havili FB USC.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
My dream o-line:
B.Albert, B.Waters, S.Wiesniewski, J.Asamoah, M.Gilbert
Agreed
Like I said all the way at the bottom, not featuring JC and limiting his carries is fine by me, but more production out of the other RB can only help that cause. It doesn’t need to be another home run hitter, just someone that can put us in better positions than 2nd and 9 consistently. Again, a better interior push from the O-line would help that, but looking for the future TJ is definitely in our best interest
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
I think that drafting someone like S.Havili would fill 2 needs.
While i haven’t seen much if any video of Havili blocking, he does everything else good. IMO he could be a weapon out of the backfield, and the opposing defense would have to account for him when he’s in the game. He is a FB but he runs like a HB and fills 2 roster spots RB/FB.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
My dream o-line:
B.Albert, B.Waters, S.Wiesniewski, J.Asamoah, M.Gilbert
Yeah, didn't see any blocking from him
But he does have some running skills for a FB, no doubt. He could be utilized in some different ways in different packages with skills like that, and if he can block like an NFL fullback. I’ll keep my eye on him. I’d like to have a straight mauler, like ole John Connor for the Jets, at fullback for us, as that could definitely help the push up the middle for TJ, or whoever. But Havili looks good running, mos def
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
Here's the best video of him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXlwb6c089g&feature=related
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
My dream o-line:
B.Albert, B.Waters, S.Wiesniewski, J.Asamoah, M.Gilbert
Ok Caveman
all else being equal, I will give you that it would be nice to get more than 1 yd on the throwaway downs. The real point is that no matter what the gain on throwaway downs, they will be run anyway and will not largely affect the overall game plan. It is part of the offensive strategy. Of course, if you can give it to that back and score every time he touches the ball then yes it is better. The reality is that the downs will be run and the gain in yards is not the main purpose of the play call, although the team will take first downs in any form. I am good with a draft choice on someone to eventually replace Jones, just as I am good with a draft choice to replace Weigmann. The making of that choice is a fluid situation and cannot be right or wrong until the games are played and the awards are given out.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Ain't broke with JC - don't need to fix it
A new guy to challenge battle for TJs spot is the focus in the running game. Period.
We need BEEF; This is my mock prediction 2011
1. Houston LB - Georgia
2. Moffit G - Wisconsin
3. Powe NT - Ol' Miss
4. O'Dowd C - USC
5. Carter S - Oklahoma
6. V. Brown WR - San Diego State
7. Taua RB - Nevada
by Mas Cervezas on Feb 12, 2011 3:39 PM CST via mobile reply actions
yeah saw something on PFT from a fan from a diff team....he said
if you have a RB averaging 6.4 YPC…and gaining 1400-1500 yards on the ground….there is absolutely nothing to fix in that regard
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Hope not
Charles needs to stay fresh as long as possible, and Jones and him combine for one of the best tandems in the NFL. Jones isn’t great, but he’s good, and he keeps Charles fresh.
I am a bear of very little brains and big words bother me.
Haley seems stubborn about how and when he uses the runningbacks.............
Imagine what would have happened if 2.7 hadn’t been a dumb ass!
I still haven't found what I'm looking for........
This scary.
YAAAAAY! Now you go, lady!
by Tarkus on Feb 12, 2011 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still haven't found what I'm looking for........
Proud Puggle Owner!
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
Nice expression "What u talkin bout Willis!?!?"
We need BEEF; This is my mock prediction 2011
1. Houston LB - Georgia
2. Moffit G - Wisconsin
3. Powe NT - Ol' Miss
4. O'Dowd C - USC
5. Carter S - Oklahoma
6. V. Brown WR - San Diego State
7. Taua RB - Nevada
by Mas Cervezas on Feb 12, 2011 5:24 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sorry to mislead everyone :-)
I do own a puggle, but that’s not a pic of mine. I just googled that image, it was one of the first that popped up. I don’t have any pics of my dog on my work computer.
But she looks very much like my boy. Cocks his head at EVERYTHING you say to him, tries to howl like his Beagle brother. He is damn cute, about 4 years old.
One little known fact about puggles: they are prone to epilepsy. Mine has it. Suffers from seizures every one to two months.
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
One of my pugs was having occasional seizures
To make a long story short we were giving her flea pills that caused the seizures. After we stopped giving her the pills she’s never had another problem.
JC got banged up once or twice every game. They wound up being minor. But a few times I thought he was out for the count. He can’t take 25-30 carries.
no kidding. but haley is just holding him back...imagine 6.4 ypc over 25-30 carries....
oh wait…you mean he wouldnt get near 6.4 ypc because he would be tired, worn out, and defenses would only have to worry about his run style, and tackling him…instead of worrying about tackling him like hes a thomas jones, and watching charles scoot right by…..sigh
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
this stuff just makes me angry.
texas football fans for the most part always said charles was GREAT, but couldnt hold up, or saw his production slide as his carry number went up in terms of overall
there is the FACT that charles comes out of every game…EVERY game…with some sort of injury, at times involving the trainer and looking like a serious problem.
the more times hes on the field, the more tired he gets, the more lazy he, and anyone else, or I guess the word should be “tired”…and that leads to fumbles…if he wasnt saved by barely having his knee hit down or the evidence not being there, he would have had another 5-6 fumbles
what can we learn from the CJ situation? we can learn that CJ performed FAR better when he had someone taking carries…this past season was by far CJ’s worst.
I think this argument is ridiculous. I think the question is ridiculous. Quite frankly charles should NOT see more than 20 touches a game.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
He only is seeing 14 now
So I thought this entire thread was about whether Thomas Jones IS the other back to get the 15 or so carries per game next year. @33 years old and costing 4 MIllion dollars I vote not.
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:46 PM CST up reply actions
Could you imagine the 4th Quarter with a serious big back beating on your defense all day.
trying to catch Charles?
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:48 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I do think we will find another back....but I believe Jones WILL take the carries next year that charles doesnt.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
$5000 dollars per yard?
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
I dont pay the football players...I also didnt say that I necessarily wanted jones to take said carries....just that I thought he would
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
considering the poll says : "will the chiefs feature jamaal charles front and center"...Id say its more about charles taking on a full carry load
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
I see prop Charles has 13%
obviously 87% of the vote is about someone else
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:50 PM CST up reply actions
the poll itself isnt what I meant, read the title of this freaking thread
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
I read between the lines SD :)
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
and I like to look at the topic at hand :)
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
as in
“Farrar interestingly focused on Jamaal Charles vs. Thomas Jones — a drum often beat by FO this season — and asked the question of whether the Chiefs will learn the same lesson the Titans learned from Chris Johnson’s explosiveness.”
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
and what did Johnson do this year?
Walter banged the same drum all season
and AP thinks he is an Idiot
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:08 PM CST up reply actions
and I wasnt bashing AP....when did I ever say anything about AP? the topic needs to die...this was about an ARTICLE from SOMEWHERE ELSE
stop being so defensive over a site that quite frankly I have been to for years and have never ever ever said anything negative about
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
I surrender
Jones is the ultimate committee guy to team with Charles :)
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 6:12 PM CST up reply actions
when did I say that?.......I said that I felt he would take the carries....I have yet to say I want jones to take them
what is your deal?
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
by SDChief on Feb 12, 2011 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Who should take them?
I thought we were having a discussion, I do tend to rely on all my knowledge though rather than just what is specifically said. Outside the box sucks
Just try to STOP US
by Steve_Chiefs on Feb 12, 2011 7:00 PM CST up reply actions
+1
Just about to write something when you took the words right out of my mouth, and put ’em on paper much better than I could have.
man, it's hot here!
by i'minCostaRicachiefsfan on Feb 12, 2011 5:49 PM CST reply actions
+1 for Steve
man, it's hot here!
by i'minCostaRicachiefsfan on Feb 12, 2011 5:50 PM CST reply actions
ya doug farrer an chris johnson will be shit in 3 years there running the hell out of him in tennesse,
I dont care wat some dude at outsider sports has to say, you cant run a RB in this leage 30 times a game or more if there 190 freakin pounds, they dont last 5 years tops of max production, its just to big of beating on there bodies.. thomas jones fits the mold perfect, but eventually he will have to be replaced.. Now in my opinion if your in the playoffs or the super bowl its a whole diffrent story..
Every game is important unless
You’ve already locked up playoffs and cannot improve on home field advantage.
Or
You have been eliminated from the playoffs.
After last season
I think Jones is a great receiving RB. Sure, his run game wasn’t great, but compared to Charles, who would look good?! Anyways, when Jones caught the ball, I really began to see him use his strength. Jones > just about any linebacker, in terms of strength, not to mention Jones is pretty darn athletic too. My only complaint is why the Chiefs decided to use Jones over Charles to start every game.
IMO..
I like the 2 back rotation. Just thought Jones my have faded some down the stretch. Charles is a great back would love to see in a Chiefs uniform for years to come.
What they failed to mention in that article was how CJ2K’S production was down from the previous year(he was splitting carries with a different 25 guy). I just think in todays NFL regardless of good or great one back is you need another to compliment that back and take some of take some of the load off. The stronger you are at the end means the better you are for season #2. Just my opinion.
by ONECHIEFan on Feb 13, 2011 12:18 AM CST via mobile reply actions
To my eye, Jones had BETTER burst down the stretch. What happened was KC faced better line play and other teams were
gettin’ their number. Depending on the teams KC faced, they could single up one or more wideouts and bring extra hats to bear in the middle of the field. Chambers wasn’t at the top of HIS game much of the season, and there weren’t any dominant or near-dominant guys behind him. Chiefs were very sound at HB last season, and it’s just a question of maintaining that (at least) and getting better at other spots.
I’m in no hurry to see the last of Thomas Jones, nor would I hesitate to bring in a mid-round draft pick and put him in there, if he were better than Jones. I just don’t see a whole lot of ‘backs who are going to come in a play as well all-around as Jones does. Not as fast as Jamaal, but he has a pretty complete game that is limited only by what the other 10 guys are givin’ him.
I know enough to know I don't know very much.
Get what your saying...
I like Thomas too but JC’s production didn’t seem to fall like Thomas did in the last 6 or so games. I know some can be blamed on line play, opponents but what about Thomas himself. Jc was still making it happen. That’s all I’m saying. And next year we will see a bunch of top 10 defences.
by ONECHIEFan on Feb 13, 2011 10:02 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Will The Chiefs Feature Jamaal Charles Front-And-Center?
Shouldn’t they get somebody a little bigger to replace Wiegmann?
Continuing controlling JC's carries is a good thing for his long term health
However, more production out of his counterpart can only help the cause to keeping JC’s carries limited, as a RB that is good for more than barely 3 yds. a carry won’t put the team in positions to need to use JC in 3rd downs or more frequently just to keep the running game established. More push from the middle of the O-line will help that, but so can a younger, fresher RB to take the pounding better
It's one thing to see something wrong and have good ideas how to fix it, it's another to complain about everything because nothing is ever good enough. Look in the mirror, which one are you?
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