Chiefs Offensive Woes Are Depressing
by Joel Thorman on Dec 29, 2011 11:56 AM CST
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This was supposed to be the year of the Kansas City Chiefs offense. Matt Cassel coming off a Pro Bowl, Jamaal Charles developing into one of the game's biggest threats, the additions of Jonathan Baldwin and Steve Breaston in the passing game and the continued emergence of Dwayne Bowe.
But....the Chiefs pretty much stunk offensively in 2011. Like second-worst-in-the-league bad. The Chiefs are currently ranked 31st, only ahead of the St. Louis Rams.
The (other) AP's Dave Skretta tackled the latest talking point on what's wrong with the offense -- red zone scoring.
Kansas City has scored a touchdown on red-zone trips just 33 percent of the time; the league-leading Jets have doubled that rate. By comparison, the Chiefs scored touchdowns on 59.62 percent of their trips last year, when they went 10-6 and won the division.
I was looking through the Chiefs stats and realized that they may go through the entire months of November, December and the final game on January 1 without scoring more than one offensive touchdown.
Indeed, the last time the Chiefs scored multiple touchdowns in one game was on Halloween night against San Diego.
Think about that. Over two months without scoring at least two touchdowns in a game. They've managed four straight games in double digits (hooray!) the fact remains that the Chiefs may go more than half of the season without scoring more than one touchdown in a game.
On the season as a whole, they've scored multiple touchdowns in just four of 15 games.
Yeah...that won't cut it.
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Which Is Why
I don’t think Haley will ever get another head coaching job. I think he’ll be lucky if he ever gets another offensive coordinator job. He’s a good position coach who only looked good running an offense in Arizona because he had a Hall of Fame QB, two top-end WRs and a head coach who knew how to run offenses.
He got exposed in KC for what he is…a guy in way over his head when he gets that level of responsibility.
Haha
We basically replied at the exact same moment saying exactly the same thing. Cheers!
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
He will most likely be an OC again. But should he stay as a WR's coach? yes.
I think he knows that, its just not easy to support a family with the pay you get as the wr’s coach…at least in comparison to the offensive coordinator’s pay
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
KC gave him $12 million
If he can’t support his children for the rest of their lives on that, then he’s got a problem beyond football.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Hey now you must admit it's pretty hard when
QB! – Play like Warner
WR! – Play like Fitzgerald
OLine! – Err, zone block or somethin, get in people’s way that’s it!
I mean that literally seems to be Haley’s entire offensive scheme. I’m not sure anyone can execute that game plan.
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Amazing KC won the two(?) games in that time span.
And yet there are those (they are few) that would want the Rams offensive mastermind in charge of these problems.
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Dec 29, 2011 12:02 PM CST reply actions
No wonder Succop got that kick blocked
He has the same form as I did in 1991 in my first SNFU mosh pit.
Re: The post. I don’t know what the hell the problem is, there is too much still on offense to be this shitty. First of all, we haven’t known in 3 years who the hell is calling the plays, so it’s hard to point the finger there…Orton certainly has moved the ball BETTER than his predecesors, but still can’t get in the endzone consistantly. I don’t know, I blame Dexter McCluster for not being Gronkowski.
by craig in calgary on Dec 29, 2011 12:03 PM CST reply actions
awesome...
1, 2, SNFU!!!!
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Charter Member of Chief Fans for Neck Beards...Viva La Orton
I want to rip Muir apart limb by limb then light him on fire and dance in his ashes
And Haley deserved to be fire FOR ONE REASON: HIRING BILL MUIR AS A FIRST TIME OC..
JDBJKPFBSJFBHBSFSFBVJCFJLKNFJ HOLY SHIT
I don't hate him.
I’m sure he’s doing the best he can. If you want to hate on someone, that should be reserved for the guy who promoted him to call plays for the first time in his 100 year career. Not that I hate Haley either, but he’s the one ultimately responsible.
Do you really think it was Haley's choice?
The more I hear about the feud between him and Pioli the more I think Pioli hand cuffed him.
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Dec 29, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I do.
l think Haley wanted someone who would let him stay heavily involved in the offense. A puppet, if you will.
Was Pioli trying to handcuff him
when he signed his boy, Breaston? What about Gregg, McClain, Gaither and Orton?
That is valid argument....
I also think that Pioli didn’t plan on Haley to last past this year. I honestly don’t think he would have be here this year if it wasn’t for the lock out. If you are planning on bringing in a new head coach wouldn’t you want the coach to bring in an OC they are comfortable with. I’m wondering if he didn’t promote Muir to leave his options open next year. I could be reaching here but it seem likely to me, but at the same time so does you point.
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Dec 29, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
Also
Haley ran off two offensive coordinators in his first two years and the most recent offensive coordinator basically said the offense ran better when Haley wasn’t involved in it (and they’ve looked miles better on the field since he was fired). If anything, Pioli saved Haley for an extra year by hiring Charlie Weis to run the offense…because Haley sure didn’t know how to do it himself.
And what did Haley do?
Refuse to run plays through McClain, leave Gaither on the bench, and let Palko show Orton how it’s done here in KC.
Haley handcuffed himself by not “playing the guys that” gave him “the best chance to win.”
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Dec 29, 2011 12:45 PM CST up reply actions
That's not true
Every week Haley said he was playing the guys that gave us the best chance
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Which is why he will never be a scout in this league.
Or any position other than WR coach where he is tasked with evaluating talent. Not anytime soon, anyway.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Dec 29, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Haley Is An Insecure Idiot Who Also Can't Accept Responsibility For His Shortcomings
That’s important to keep in mind when evaluating anything he says. It’s also why he couldn’t work with offensive coordinators who knew as much or more than him (Gailey, Weis)
actually Trades and picks
are left to the GM, all Haley could do was put his voice in to bring them here… it was up to Pioli to let them come here…
2 words
Jamaal Charles
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 29, 2011 12:05 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Jamaal Charles had like 5 TD's last year.
He breaks off long chunks, but isn’t the reason we were scoring TD’s.
by craig in calgary on Dec 29, 2011 12:07 PM CST up reply actions
I mean because people had to prepare for him
Without him, I think it’s been tougher
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 29, 2011 12:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He wasn't even used in goal line and short yardage situations.
And that’s been their biggest problem, at least since Orton became the QB.
I think Red Zone play calling...
They always seem too scared to turn it over…granted last week the first time they weren’t they turned it over…
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Dec 29, 2011 12:20 PM CST up reply actions
They turned it over because the ran the same play twice in a row
Only, on the second one there was a zone underneath. The first was a drop by Bowe.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Dec 29, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Playcaller needs to be fired!
I hope it’s Muir, as this offense has lacked consistency all season.
The last 2 weeks, on 4th and inches we’ve runt he same exact play! Instead of a QB sneak, he has the QB run 5 yards backward and give the ball to Battle. So now you are asking Battle to actually get 5 yards PLUS those inches to get the first down against a stacked defense.
If you are going to run on 4th and inches, it has to be a sneak, a quick FB dive or run to the outside. Especially in the Green Bay game! There was only 1 D-LINEMAN in front of the center and two guards! If Orton runs a sneak, he’s in the endzone on that play! Ridiculous.
we have no identity on offense we cant gain one yard we need a better oline we need better play calling
There r some real tough decisions pioli must make for this team in the next month or so. That will definatly hold his job on the line. I’m very interested to see what happens.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Dec 29, 2011 12:10 PM CST via mobile reply actions
im just pissed that we didn't even attempt a qb sneak on the 4th and inches play.....
I mean, did it look that bad in practice?
by CHIEFFAN82 on Dec 29, 2011 12:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
All Orton would have to do is fall forward and he would have had the 1st down
or they could have pulled out the Bono bootleg
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
it is mathematically impossible to pick up a first down moving backwards...
I think?
by CHIEFFAN82 on Dec 29, 2011 1:19 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Unless you spiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin jumpppppppppppp crashhhhhhhhhhhh
FIRSTTTTTTTTTT DOWNNNNNNNNNNNN
Madeen>Math
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
you know about that O-line
really, with Muir being promoted to OC, has he had the time to work the O-line this year?? think we messed up whenever we promoted Muir but didn’t hire another coach to be the O-line coach… so now Muir has to split his time with the gameplan and with coaching the O-line… next, i think i figured out why if the O-line starts the game bad it usually ends the game bad, our damn O-line coach wasn’t on the sideline to correct assignments, instead he’s eatting hotdogs and falling asleep in the box…
We got 99 problems, and a QB is definitely one of them
Until we make a splash at that position we are fucked. Kyle Orton is not the answer!
He is a better option than Cassel at the moment
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
well that makes me feel comfortable
hey, don’t worry, he’s a slightly better version of average than the last guy.
by BeauJackson on Dec 29, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
King Shit of the Turn Pile
is still a King – amirite
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:48 PM CST up reply actions
Turd pile
aka what my comment amounts to
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
He's much better.
We actually get to the red zone with him.
by bossmanham on Dec 29, 2011 12:54 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yup
Orton isn’t a franchise QB, or anything resembling a franchise QB, but he’s definitely the best QB currently on the roster.
I keep saying between the 20s he's the best QB on the roster without a doubt
Our Red Zone Offense is just lost…I hope someone figures it out by next season.
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:59 PM CST up reply actions
we refuse to go to our strength's in the red zone, and of course no moeaki kills it
this teams needs to spend some picks on TE/HB….as well as the obvious OL. Id really like another solid TE for 2 TE sets, pope is done here, and Halfback is an obvious need, battle is a free agent, jones will be gone…
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
I dunno
That backshoulder throw to Bowe for a TD is pretty hard to defend.
The only other time in the endzone I remember was 3rd and goal from the 5 and we ran Jones up Weigmans ass. Oh right, there was an int too. Nevermind.
by craig in calgary on Dec 29, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions
Does Orton call the plays in the Red Zone?
I think not. Were there any plays called to utilize the height and jumping ability of Bowe, Baldwin, or Pope? I think not.
orton is the better qb over cassel
i just don’t see how the chiefs still not having a QB in the elite class is going to work out any better than it always has.
If we agree Red Zone Offense is mostly about play calling and execution from the line
I notice a pretty clear pattern: Muir. From OLine to OC, he’s been pretty damn fail.
Of course the skill positions have to execute their assignment as well, but if the call is fail or the line fails to execute in the Red Zone, it’s over before it begins with virtually no chance for improvisation unlike between the 20s.
Of course we really don’t KNOW who to blame fully (anybody?) for the play calling (per se), but Muir had a hand in it this season, and with the OLine before that (I’d find it hard to call our offense even mediocre at any point in Haley’s time here). It just appears awfully damning for the man imo.
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:36 PM CST reply actions
"Chiefs Offensive Woes Are Depressing"
The whole team is depressing……………
You Play to Win the game!!!
Defense isn't really depressing....
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Dec 29, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
But, as good as the D was, they really fell apart several times and that still has to be
Crennel’s fault, his defensive play-calling. If Crennel is given the HC position, we’ve got even more problems. He does great in just trying to manage the D.
I think that has more to do with
the defense being on the field for almost 40 minutes in those blowouts
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
by KingChief on Dec 29, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This right herr.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Dec 29, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
exactly. this. and short field's that allowed early points
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
what about Detroit and Buffalo??
yeah early in the season but still part of the season… both those teams jumped up on points on us very quickly
And Jets
"An atheist is a man who watches a Notre Dame - Southern Methodist University game and doesn't care who wins." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
by electriclight on Dec 29, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Detroit and Buffalo games were
a direct result of Haley’s wasted pre-season experiment.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
A lot of that was still the offense
I watched those games. The amount of times the offense turned it over or 3 and outed giving short field position to the opponent was astounding. That is going to make any defense look bad.
by old_school on Dec 29, 2011 3:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree, lots of young talent still learning by getting "burnt"
and without arguably their best player – they made enormous strides this season. The best of the best get owned sometimes, because NFL Offenses tend to be pretty good at what they do.
When your Offense continually puts the Defense in a position where one mistake equals game over, it certainly doesn’t help things.
Our Defense is the only thing we really have to be proud of this year imo.
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:43 PM CST up reply actions
I'm looking forward to seeing how our WR corps develops over the offseason
Breaston is $$$, and as soon as Baldwin gets the message across to these QBs to just lob up some jump balls… Should be dangerous for defenses.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Dec 29, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
Literally the only thing I feel Haley did for this team
Unfortunately it takes much much more than evaluating WR talent to be an effective HC. I for one will not miss him.
In wondrous beauty, once again, shall the golden tables stand mid the grass, which the gods had owned in the days of old.
by Chiefs_Ragnarok on Dec 29, 2011 12:57 PM CST up reply actions
You just gave me an idea
Herm gave us great corners. Haley gave us a good receiving core. Crennel gave us a good defense. I say we now hire a head coach that can build our offensive line. Then fire him in three years and hire a head coach who can get us an elite quarterback. We can’t go wrong!
by old_school on Dec 29, 2011 3:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It also doesn't help
when you have one TD drop per game
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
well , palko sure in hell didnt help
and not having moe and charles takes away ALOT of the offensive yards. this year has just been a bad year. cant wait till the offseason . Cant wait to see what the chiefs can do next year !
to score tds you either have to a have a dominant line and sound scheme or your skills players have got ot be able to find the endzone instead of going down inside the 5
When was the last time we had a skill player stretch for the endzone and make it ?
When you get down into the redzone its a confined space and its about your skill players getting open and making defenses pay when they do .. We have two dropped tds in two weeks .
Sure Palko caused a huge problem moving the ball but man we should be spending 2/3 hours doing nothing but redzone work a day. The redzone is about perfection and weve had too many guys wasting opportunities .with mental errors
when I look at this roster
I get really freaking excited about the future of this team
but in order to get out of our offensive issues, a new OC must come to town, and quite frankly, two brand new offensive lineman…hopefully young.
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
Too much upheaval with players going to IR, Turnstile at QB and OL, Coaching changes
Oh and don’t forget Muir and the ST guy who cant have his line block anyone
-I’m honestly surprised it wasnt worse.
agree, was actually surprised at the yardage totals and averages of that very sad 3 man rotation KC has at HB
Pay Brandon Carr/Romeo
Team Colquitt
Yeah.. BRich just turns em loose!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:19 PM CST up reply actions
The problems in the Red Zone are frustrating
Especially when you have two big WRs…fades, slants would make sense to me. Or spread out the D with an empty backfiled and slip a TE into the endzone. I have little faith in our OL’s run blocking when we want to run and the D knows that we want to run. Beef up our interior with Albert and Hudson to go with Asamoah and find 2 OTs in the draft and FA…maybe Pioli will blame Haley for Gaither and get him back.
Keep Albert at OT
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
I think if there was any chance whatsoever
that they were open to moving Albert, they wouldn’t have cut Gaither. Sadly that same logic implies they still believe in BRich…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Unless Gaither could not cut it at ROT in our scheme
Why do people not even think about that?!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
If he was given the opportunity and failed.
You would have a point. Since he wasn’t, I’m not going to make that assumption. Just like I’m not going to assume that Stanzi is worse than Palko, simply because Haley never gave him the opportunity.
If he couldn't handle it in practice, why even toss him out in a game?
RAC didn’t give Stanzi the chance either, even with the season over we are rolling with Orton
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
First thing RAC did was move Stanzi ahead of Palko.
Haley also didn’t see enough of Charles in practice to put him ahead of 2.7. An argument that automatically gives Haley the benefit of the doubt in player evaluation doesn’t impress me.
This again? Tark we have been through this so many times it seems...
Charles took away Haley’s favorite toy, Haley was upset because Charles tossed it to Bowe and Haley couldn’t jump high enough to get it back!
Bowe then dropped it, but Charles was fast enough to grab it and run away before Haley could get it.. that’s why Haley liked 2.7.. he was lazy and slow.
Who cares about the depth chart anyways? I mean.. why not argue about Jones being ahead of Charles?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:45 PM CST up reply actions
Depth chart is meaningful
when one guy plays and the other one doesn’t, or one guy is active and one isn’t. Palko has been inactive since RAC took over, so he hasn’t even been available in games. That’s where the depth chart matters. RAC immediately decided he didn’t even warrant putting on a uniform on Sundays.
Then again we have 2 other healthy QBs
If Orton was still injured or Stanzi got injured, Palko would suit up.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:00 PM CST up reply actions
But Stanzi would still be ahead of him.
That’s the point. RAC immediately said that either Orton or Stanzi would start. Palko wasn’t even an option.
Yup
The fact that Palko hasn’t even been activated since Haley got fired shows just how little regard the rest of the Chiefs’ coaching staff has for Palko in regards to Stanzi. I’ve grown to suspect that Haley started him for no other reason than that he wanted to send a “fuck you” to his boss.
And considering that Haley kept playing Thomas Jones and Larry Johnson ahead of Jamaal Charles, I think it’s fair to say that outside of WRs, Todd Haley knew fuck-all about evaluating talent.
Agree, Tarkus
None of us know how Stanzi performs/performed in practice. Haley didn’t allow Stanzi to play because he wasn’t a good coach and couldn’t see that Palko was a bad QB. We didn’t really get to see that much of Stanzi in the preseason, but I saw enough to believe that he is better than Palko in many ways.
I do get the idea, though,
that he made that decision based on trying to get the job permanently. If Crennel had been the HC all along, I think we would have seen Stanzi once the season was lost…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
If Crennel had been HC all along
the season wouldn’t be lost.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
The season was lost against the Raiders...
Yet Orton is starting…
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, he is!
And I look forward to him shredding the Broncos defense.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Yes but then again, with RAC at HC.. we played the exact same way?
Too big of a leap
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
But now Crennel needs to win to keep the job...
If Crennel were already permanent and felt safe, he could play Stanzi and look to next year.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Let's fire Haley after a hell of a turn around season, and playoffs... to replace with RAC
Just doesn’t make sense
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:07 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying that at all.
Obviously Haley wasn’t getting fired after last year.
But Crennel’s decisions have to be made in the situation he’s in. Right now, the position he’s in requires showing omprovement, if not winning, in order to get the permanent gig.
If he was an established HC who thought his job next year was safe, then he would likely get some game film on Stanzi, hoping he would prove worthwhile and be the QBotf, or prove worthless and let the team move on.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Who is to say the season happened the same way under RAC though?
You are changing a huge variable then keeping the result the same.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Any number of variables could have changed the situation, obviously.
What I am saying is that Crennel came into the situation we have, along with the situation he has. And that made playing Orton a nobrainer.
On a different team where Romeo was established and not coaching as a job interview, he may well have reacted differently.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Speaking Of Gaither
Looks like he may very well have landed himself a job for next season as well. Apparently three-fifths of San Diego’s offensive line is possibly retiring. Hardwick, Dielman and McNeill. That’s a team on the way down fast.
Their window has slammed shut
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 30, 2011 5:41 AM CST up reply actions
Could be totally true, there's no way to know for sure...
I’m just saying that there seems to be this idea that Gaither was held out because of Haley, or some other personal reason, when it’s way more likely he didn’t play,and was then released, because the team didn’t feel he had a chance to beat out the player(s) ahead of him..
Muir even said outright that while Gaither didn’t look as good here as they had seen him look in Balt, he was released for other “team” reasons. He just wasn’t in our future plans and they decided the roster spot was better spent protecting Mims from getting signed away.
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
Yup I agree with the last parts
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:43 PM CST up reply actions
I know you like Albert at OT
I am on the side of of moving him to LG where he could be elite versus my opionion of him as being average. In any case I would guess we will add 3 OTs this offseason via FA and the draft….so we’ll see what happens when he has some legit competition.
I'm not moving him WITHOUT someone who can beat him out at LT.. which is no one we have
Nor do I see anyone in this draft, besides possibly Kalil who could challenge Albert at LT quickly.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:46 PM CST up reply actions
I think we will be in a position to grab
Martin, but I think he is more of a RT. But I would rather trade out and use a later first round pick on Sanders from FSU at OT….I agree unless we find somebody better don’t move him, we just differ on how hard it would be to beat him out.
Sanders has really looked better on the left side this year at FSU once Datko went down
Didn’t think his hip situation was that bad, but really does look more active on the left than right
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
I agree that is why I want him over Martin
I love his long arms and how athletic he is.
It did actually surprise me as the season went along how better Sanders looked
Hopefully more info comes out about his hip
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:02 PM CST up reply actions
With the bowl game tonight,
combine, and pro workouts we’ll know every little thing about him by April.
Yup
Sanders is the kind of OT to look at, a guy who can handle the right side but could potentially challenge Albert at LT. That is fine, and what I look for.. I just don’t see a guy at this moment who could instantly take that job from Albert
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
Again
that all depends what the Chiefs Brass really think of Albert.
Have to feel pretty good about him for not taking an OT with the #3 or #5 pick, IMO
Hell we really havn’t even went after OTs in the draft, even with.. BRich :(
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Not really
When Pioli picked TJ he had only been with the Chiefs for 2 months and was looking for players that could fit into the D he wanted to play. Plus, it was Albert’s 2nd year in which he did improve as his rookie season went along, so I think he went after bigger needs. With the lockout this year and from what Pioli and Haley were saying, they were trying keep it as simple as possible and not move too many people around with the lack of offseason. Now that Albert has played 4 years and Pioli has watched 2 of them, he has all the info he needs to decide what to do with him. I think this draft will be more of an indicator then the last 2.
B-Rich is a helluva run blocking RT though.
That’s all we actually REALLY need from him after JC comes back. And hopefully we get a smash-mouth/power RB or two, and give McClain more carries.
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 4:44 PM CST up reply actions
Not scoring TDs is not Orton's fault.
1) No power running ability (Lilja, Wegs)
2) 2 dropped TD passes (Bowe and McClain)
3) Overall bad offensive sheme (Muir)
Fix these problems not Orton
At least Orton gets us down their. I rather be cock teased then get consistent 3 and outs.
Ron Paul 2012
by EricBerryYoYouScary on Dec 29, 2011 1:22 PM CST reply actions
Yup
I think the concerns about him in the end zone are overblown. Against the Packers he was putting the ball where it needed to be…the receivers just didn’t execute. I suspect that if he’s back next year with the same receiving corps, that aspect of the offense will improve as they get to work together.
I thought the same thing when I started look into his stats
The I called a few buddies I worked with that are die hard Bears fans. The first thing they said was “Good luck once he gets to the RZ.” and “Hope you have a good FG kicker.”
I then went onto quite a few blogs and talked to non troll Bronco fans. They said the same exact thing.
Now these are just fan perspectives but it is not just a coincidence that it is the first thing being brought up about him. The QB runs the team and so far he is 2-9 in the RZ. I cant fault him for not being on the same page as the WR here in KC. A couple of weeks just isnt long enough to know your WR in every situation.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Exactly...
the constant variable here is Orton. I don’t think he is the worst thing to happen to the QB position, but he isn’t the answer.
Barring a QB acquisition I’d prefer him start next year.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
He would be a QB acquisition
I’d bet my lucky penny that Cassel is back under center, for better or worse. Pioli’s view is still that if we put the rest of the team around him, he will be NE’s Cassel again. That view hasn’t actually been proven wrong,yet, either. Until it is, we’re stuck with him.
Fact is, replacing the #16 QB in the league with the #14 QB in the league is not enough of an improvement to get half as excited about as some fans are for Orton. Average is average and as long as that’s all we’re talking about, the average QB already under contract next year is your frontrunner by a long shot…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
That’s right he would be an acquisition. Even so, I’d rather cheer for him than Cassell. I think I’m just tired of him.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Thank God!
Another one that would bet some cash (although I’d never bet my lucky Buffalo Head nickel) that Matty Nice is back under C next season, as well. I think KO would run from this dysfunctional organization for even less money from another team … even if Pioli showed any interest in signing him? I absolutely believe Pioli absolutely believes Stanzi can be developed into his next franchise QB, ala Brady and Matty Nice. I really do believe that is his plan. Now I’m wrong 90-plus-percent of the time, so I still reserve that right in this case, as well. But I’ll only concede when I’m proven wrong … just sayin’ …
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
This is where you shouldnt ask people but go find out for yourself because the one thing ive learned from the intrent is that more people will simply go off the the rep than finding out the truth.
I did this in another post after someone mentioned he was bad in the redzone . I got these numbers from teamrankings.com and they do not include fgs only tds
Ortons teams redzone scoring throughout the past 4 seasons
2008 Bears – 13th 56%
2009 Broncos 24th 48%
2010 Broncos 14th 55%
2011 Broncos 12th 54% before tebow took over now its 21st 50%
The redzone is about timing and precision there can be no mistakes saying that Orton should be throwing td passes like HOF Qbs Brees and Rodgers is crazy .
Oh for reference over the same years
2008
NO 3rd 61%
GB 5th 60%
2009
NO 5th 61%
GB 7th 57%
2010
GB 4th 63%
NO 19th 52%
2011
GB 4th 68%
N0 20th 42%
Its simply very hard to compare anyone but maybe 3/4 other Qbs to those situations because only 3/4 qbs have had the type of continuity that those two Qbs have had
I dont know how good Orton can be here but what I am finding out that there seems t be a whole bunch of exaggerations about his faults.
The funny part is that the Bears have not achieved or surpassed the redzone efficiency they reached with Orton since he left .
by Willie Beamon on Dec 29, 2011 2:54 PM CST up reply actions
RZ efficiency
is a total of the running game and passing game. What does Orton do in the running game? He just hands off. Now he could be the one checking off at the line but that isnt something that McD or Smith game him much to do.
To make my point last year KC was 8th in the NFL in RZ Eff at a clip of 59.62%. Does that mean Cassel was AWESOME in the RZ? Nope!
-
There is a lot to be said about the eyeball test when it comes to QB’s in the RZ. When you get inside the 20 certain routes go away, when you get inside the 10 even more routes go away. Some QB’s are just not good at the corner fade, back shoulder out, quick slant, etc.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
And again people who try and divide the redzone into individual sections simply miss the entire point . Football is a team sport it takes all 11 guys to score tds whether its passing or running
Your point falls way shorhanded here is why
Cassel had 18 redzone tds last year
RODGERS HAD 19 REDZONE TDS
before saying someone is bad at something maybe people should take the time to find out what good actually is .
Orton had 13 last year in 13 games and 17 the year before but what redzone weapons did he have last year after they got rid of Marshall and traded away there pass catching TE ?
As I said before alot of this stuff is based on unsubstantiated reputation .
Orton or even cassel claims that either struggle in the redzone simply because he doesnt throw as many tds passes as the top Qbs implies that they have had access to the same quality of weapons and thats just not true .
by Willie Beamon on Dec 29, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
How do we know that Orton didn't have the same type of OCs as Muir, KSU-Chief?
I keep reading that Cassel was better in the Red Zone than Orton. How many TDs did Cassel orchestrate this year in the Red Zone? How much time did Orton have to work with and get to know his receivers compared to Cassel? Again, who called the plays in the Red Zone?
That INT vs the Raiders was pretty bad though.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
I agree.
But that’s one play and he’s only been on the team what a month?
Ron Paul 2012
by EricBerryYoYouScary on Dec 29, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Time will definitely tell. Although it looked to me that it was an issue of him just not seeing the defender. I’m not sure that has anything to do with time on the team. That being said, I think he’s pretty ok and certainly better than any other QB on the team.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
If Bowe catches the TD
that INT doesn’t happen though
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
True as that may be it had no affect on the play itself.
Proud parent of SD-born Shane Loux.
If Cain is with us, who can be against us? - atxgiantsfan
Does actually, you couldn't bring up the INT anymore ;)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 29, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Well, why in the HELL was Romeo still letting Muir call pass plays down that close for!?!?!
We were already in FG range. So run it for better FG position, and then bring on Succop. Doesn’t Romeo, or especially Muir know Woody Hays maxim about throwing passes??? Hell, Muir probably knew Hays personally … or might’ve even worked with him at some point? I mean … Muir was like around in the 1890’s when football split off from Rugby … wasn’t he? I blame Romeo and Muir for that friggin’ pick! (smh)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 4:01 PM CST up reply actions
Here are a few running stats that are just down right PATHETIC!
Inside the opp 10 yard line KC is averaging 1.1 ypc on 23 attempts 4TD’s
-
On runs that are longer than 10 yards(46 on the year) NONE have gone for a TD.
-
On 3rd/4th with less than 2 yards to go KC is averaging 1.9 ypc on 32 rushes. This actually looks better than is should because one of those rushes we gained 20 yards. So on the remaining 31 rushes we gained 40 yards(1.3 ypc) We gained a 1st down on 18 of 32 rushes or 56% of the time
-
Rushing to the right side is netting us 2.8 ypc and rushing to the right sideline is netting us 3.6ypc.
-
Now we all know what losing Charles meant to the team but these stats really help tell the story on just how we missed him… The OL isnt good enough to get an actual push but Charles was good enough to make people miss or squeeze through a very small opening.
What a year! At least we have the Royals... Oh Wait!
Well ... what do you expect with midgets in the middle of our O-line?
Why in the HELL … and WHO in the hell made this decision? … did we committ to a ZBS last season!?!?! We’re an extremely run-first E-P offense. You don’t use a freakin’ ZBS in our kind of offense. If JC can’t get yards behind plow horses blocking for him, then screw him! LOL! We can always go out and get another Okoye, Word, Donnell Bennent stable of smash-mouth runners (yes, I think JC can get the same yards behind road graders, too … like he did the last 10 games of 2009.)
Starting with signing Hillis or Bush in FA (or I think Mendenhall will be a FA too? Or maybe a RFA?). Then drafting one like Ganaway, Marc Tyler, Brandon Bolden (was a teammate of Dex, btw) or Vic Ballard in the later rounds, re-signing McClain and giving him more carries, and still throwing Battle in the comp, too. Piloi’s (or was it Haley’s?) decision to go to a ZBS was asanine! As its harder to find O-linemen for the ZBS to boot! (smh)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 3:34 PM CST up reply actions
Ganaway
Is really a pretty good back. Of course, there are two other guys off that squad I’d rather have…
by SCKSChief on Dec 29, 2011 4:01 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Dude ... we don't need RG-3 to hand off the rock to three or four RB's all game.
I think even Matty Nice has that down … well, purty well anyway? RG-3’s passing skills would be wasted in our offense. I’d tag Bowe and try to trade him for whatever? to get more picks to build the O-LINE, our DEFENCE, and a friggin’ huge blocking TE. And well, yeah … snatch Ganaway or whatever smashmouth/power RB also. We don’t need anymore friggin’ pass-catching WR’s for downfield blockers. Throw Copper out there in his place if we need another WR blocking.
Btw, whose the other guy you want? Kendall Wright? We sure as hell don’t need a burner WR for our offense!?!?! Can he even block at all? I want us to give that NT of theirs a tryout if he goes undrafted too. Yeah … Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, 6’2-315. He’s no Phil Taylor, but still worth a looksee in TC.
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
Next year...
we Should just put charles out there… would be more offensive excitement then anything they put on the field this year
Skretta's a little late to the party on this one ...
Martin Manley (Upon Further Review) did a nice chart couple of weeks ago showing the BOTTOM SEVEN teams in Red Zone Scoring … every one of those teams was last in thier division
and which team was DEAD LAST of all of them? our very own Kansas City Chiefs, of course … hey, at least we’re the “best” at something
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Is RZ scoring actually scoring TD's? Or do FG's count, too?
Well, blame either Pioli or Haley for going to a midget ZBS o-line and NOT drafting nor signing another smash-mouth runner or two. But, hey … this team kicks FIELD GOALS on offense! And we rely on our DEFENSE to score TD’s! At least we got another Stenerud/Lowery-esque FG kicker … if our midget o-line ever learns to block for him too, that is!
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 3:44 PM CST up reply actions
I think they go by TD %
But, I’m often wrong.
by SCKSChief on Dec 29, 2011 4:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
No more wrong than everyone else on here. ;=)
A Dog's Heart
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Author Unknown
Still trying to outsmart me, aren't you, mule-skinner. You want me to think that you don't want me to go down there, but the subtle truth is you really *don't* want me to go down there!
by LocoLoboChico on Dec 29, 2011 4:24 PM CST up reply actions
Start Over Again
Fire Pioli & bring in Fisher or Gruden’s coaching staffs & college scouts. Fisher & Gruden did wonders working with crappy owners in Tennessee & Tampa. they can do the same with cheap skate Clark Hunt
by Chief Fan from DFW on Dec 29, 2011 2:15 PM CST reply actions
Fisher only had
6 winning seasons out of 16. I like him, but he isn’t a sure thing.
pretty amazing really,
i just wanted to say here at AP that the chiefs havn’t drafted a QB in the 1st round since Todd Blackledge. If you need some historical reference for that, it was the year when Micheal Jackson first did the moonwalk, our embassy in Beruit was bombed.
And before that, the Dallas Texans selected Lenny Dawson. it’s just crazy how hard this organization doesn’t like quarterbacks.
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