Three Questions About The Kansas City Chiefs
by Joel Thorman on Dec 19, 2011 1:30 PM CST
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I talked Kansas City Chiefs with Danny Parkins on 610 Sports this afternoon and he had some great questions that I wanted to steal share with you here. I don't think there are any right answers to these questions right now but they are good for discussion.
So the first one...
Romeo Crennel or Jeff Fisher for head coach?
My answer: I rolled with Crennel. My reasoning is basically that the Chiefs, as they are now, aren't a horrible team. They're not your usual bad team that just fired their head coach. They have a lot of talent at key positions so the idea of continuity holds more weight to me. Plus, it was clear the players really, really like him so make a change and you risk losing some of the players' faith. As for Crennel's previous run as a head coach (24-40 in Cleveland), that doesn't hold a ton of weight with me considering no one has been successful in Cleveland since the late 80s/early 90s. So for me, this answer is more about Crennel than it is Fisher.
More after the jump.
How do you handle the quarterback situation in 2012 and beyond?
My answer: I never understood why teams don't invest as much as they can in the quarterback position. Bring as much talent as possible is my opinion. So with that said my ideal scenario for next season would be to A.) bring Matt Cassel back B.) convince Kyle Orton to come back (whether you overpay or not) and C.) draft a first round quarterback. So in this scenario the Chiefs then let Orton and Cassel battle it out in preseason and training camp and the winner is your starting quarterback. The first round pick is then waiting in the wings, learning from both guys, and awaiting his future.
Who does Sunday's victory reflect more poorly on -- Matt Cassel or Todd Haley?
My answer: I picked Haley. I just thought the players responded so well to Crennel. Talking to players in the locker room, we would ask something like, "How did today's game go?" Most of them would, unprompted, attribute their success to Crennel, whether it be how he coaches, the week or preparation or whatever. It was clear the coaching change inspired the players. Also, Haley's decision to roll with Tyler Palko -- even before Orton's injury -- looks like the wrong decision right now. That said, it's not a great look for Cassel either when Orton comes in with only a couple weeks of preparation and puts up great numbers. If Orton continues to play well the rest of the year then I reserve the right to change my answer but right now I'm going with Haley.
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Who does Sunday’s victory reflect more poorly on — Matt Cassel or Todd Haley
good question
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 1:35 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Both
In Ortons first game in the system, he’s looked better than Cassel in 3 years, save maybe the Seattle and Tennessee games.
Listening to the post game quotes, it’s obvious the players wanted to win for Romeo and even went as far to say they were more prepared.
Face it, Haley and Cassel were holding this team back.
by craig in calgary on Dec 19, 2011 1:43 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
I Don't Think Cassel Was Holding The Team Back In 2010
And I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Cassel stunk in 2009 and 2011 with Todd “I’m Not Really The Offensive Coordinator (wink, wink)” Haley running the offense. I’m more than happy to shuffle most of the blame for Cassel’s struggles onto Haley.
That said, I still think Orton is a better QB.
If you blame Haley and not Cassel
Then you cannot come to any other conclusion then Cassel will thrive under the new regime.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions
I Think He'll Do Better Under The New Regime
But then I also think Orton will improve too as he gets more comfortable with his receivers and I believe Orton has a higher ceiling than Cassel.
I think Cassel is a QB that loses his confidence easy
We sucked because of Cassel, Haley sucked because he refused to play Stanzi after cassel went down.
One is gone, and three should be..
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 3:29 PM CST up reply actions
In Cassel's Semi-Defense
The offense has been changed every year he’s been here. I think Cassel is a QB with average talent and most average QBs would struggle in that situation. I think Haley holds more blame there than Cassel.
I think Cassel's ceiling as a passer is lower than I used to believe.
I do think there was too-rigid control of the offense, to protect from fuck-ups, maybe at the expense of up-side. I think Cassel has some un-learning yet to do, and I’m not sure how much of it to lay at haley’s feet.
would of ≠ would've
Same Here
But since we have a sample size of four years to judge Cassel by (one in NE, three in KC) and he was pretty good in the two years that he didn’t have Haley running the offense, I tend to give Cassel the benefit of the doubt.
I don’t think that Cassel’s ceiling is as high as Orton’s…Orton does a better job of spreading the ball around, he throws a better deep ball and I think he’s just more accurate and runs an offense more effectively. I don’t think Cassel will be as bad with someone other than Haley running the offense, but I also don’t think he should be the starter next year. The Chiefs should re-sign Orton as soon as possible.
Definitely the most interesting question right now.
My first thought was Cassel, but Joel’s response made some sense.
Thing is that this level of defense has been there a few games this season. We still couldn’t run the ball up the middle, but were OK around the edges, which is not much of a change. The biggest change yesterday, in my opinion, was the QB play. But I could also see it if somebody put it down to pass protection or receivers getting open.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Orton threw for more yards his first game than Cassel has all year
Crennel got a bigger win in his first game than Haley did in 2 and a half years…
That being said….I still want a full examination and research for a new HC and QB next year…..I dont want to see a rookie take over and have to go through growing pains before we win…so, if they cannot make a push for Peyton, somehow, if he is healthy, then I dont mind them resigning Orton and drafting a 1st round QB…im not sold, at all, on Stanzi…Ryan Mallet showed promise..dont be surprised if Pioli tries to make a trade for him…he has the “connection”..
As for head coach, Romeo had a good debut…great in fact. But lets make sure we are not doing the typical “chiefs fan thing” and get all excited about one glimmer of light….Ive already seen, after one win, people go overboard with how great Romeo is, and Orton, who everybody hated a month ago and thought he was worthless…lets take a deep breathe Chiefs fans, and see how this thing plays out before we start rooting for who returns next season…we want to WIN super bowls…not just beat the reigning SB Champs….
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Hey, I liked Orton since a little before he went to Denver.
I asked Redberry what he thought about Orton last night. Just checked, and still no answer :)
Why would NE trade Mallet? I’d rather just draft our own raw QB than trade for somebody else’s.
I don’t think there’s much danger of Pioli getting caught up in the excitement and not doing his due diligence.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
He's still working on his Orton and Romeo jokes.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Who? Redberry?
I also asked him “Where the hell’s your Tebow now.” I feel bad about that, it might have pushed him over the edge.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
NE is always very active during the draft...
They have Brady, and a very promising QB riding the bench…he has value, they may look to trade…NE is confident they can develop players. They may figure they can get a a pick or two for Mallet and still get a good backup later
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
I just don't want to overpay for Mallet.
If NE is willing to trade him to us….then that probably means we’re paying too much.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
And for the Chiefs, you trade for a guy that has already been in the system
for a year, learning from Brady….and you know Pioli loves anybody connected to NE…would you rather have a fresh faced Rookie, or a second year 2nd round pick that has been groomed behing Tom Brady?…and you may still get to use your first round pick to draft in some other area of need….
Im not gauranteeing this is gonna happen….i can just see it as a possibility
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
I'm just remembering all the knocks on Mallet, and I'm not really interested in bringing him to this team.
I think he needs a very strong locker room, and I don’t think we have that yet.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
A year under Bill Bilachek
can solve lots of issues…many scouts said he had better tools than any other QB in the draft last year…except maybe Newtons running ability….
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Not every draft pick from Belichick has panned out.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 2:30 PM CST up reply actions
We are not talking about EVERY draft pick
we are talking about a QB….
Brady…6th round
Cassel …7th round
Mallet….2nd or 3rd round…cant recall for sure
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
And I Agree With Brsrkr About Mallett
The kid seems to have some fairly serious issues with alcohol and possibly substance abuse. Some of that stuff you’d normally write off to pre-draft misinformation, but the stories around him were serious enough that it knocked him down two full rounds rather than a dozen picks, so it’s likely there was something to them.
With a guy like Mallett, who has plenty of talent, I think you let Belichick work on the guy to see if he responds to coaching and maybe grows up some, and then sign him when he becomes a UFA in three more years (unless Belichick has designs on making him the starter).
Tom Brady is 34..
This year the Colt’s showed the NFL what a mistake it is to not a quality back-up. That all elite QB’s aren’t invincible and do have ex-dates… Ryan Mallet is the Pats..Aaron Rodgers (that sat behind Farve for a couple of years)…Mallet is going NO WHERE..
Bilachek’s not in this business to train QB’s for others..lol
If Mallett Goes Somewhere Before He Becomes A UFA
It’s either because somebody offered them an incredible deal for him or because Belichick was looking to dump him. And if Belichick was looking to dump him we should be very careful before deciding that we want him.
How about the backup
quarterback for the packers? I’d rather have him, and he’s a free agent next year.
By once again trading for New England's #2 guy, we're giving them free picks, while they continue their search for the next #1.
It’s like we’re paying them for their mistakes or semi-mistakes or just plain meh players, while they continue doing what they’ve always done: Cast a wide net for QB with at least one pick, usually for value rather than big splash, and until you develop one of your own, you’re hiring proven, semi-unencumbered veterans.
Kind of the same sort of thing I’d do at LB, while trying to create a situation that allows a wider range of QBs and LBs to thrive. Sure, you’re going to pick high at QB or LB, at some point, depending on your take on the team needs and the draft. I see the not-fast Tom Brady get plenty of stand-and-deliver pauses, most of the time, and I see his WRs and TEs meet him halfway, when the heat’s on. Keep making those quick, ugly passes, but hit on enough and bust enough of ‘em big to force defenses to re-think their blitzing intentions, plus every time you hit on one of those quick ’n’ uglies, that nasty pass rusher on the opposing D is getting up just a LITTLE bit slower, and, if he’s not a workout beast, starts taking off some plays that go away from him, when you know it’s time to go AT him, and JUST past him on some draws.
Watching Orton, I see an offense that is almost a carbon copy of New England’s in the ways it’s built to beat people. Sure, they’re not striking fear that they’re going to run the ball AT you, but they’ll run a few around you when they see you dropping more guys, especially if the corners are, at the same time, 5 or more yards off the line. I can pull a Guard and create a numerical advantage at the point against those soft formations. It’s not rocket science, at least that stuff isn’t.
A little closer to rocket science is using pre-snap motion to parse defensive intentions. Collinsworth pointed this out more than once on MNF, last night. I have to admit that I didn’t used to like Collinsworth, but he does say things worth hearing, at times. I think I softened towards him, too, after watching a few episodes of American Pickers, where the lead guy reminds me so much of Chris Collinsworth. Knowing when that rusty old hulk out in the scrapyard is worth restoring is a cool thing to know, and to actually make money from.
You can also use pre-snap motion to physically remove a defender from where you’re intending to take the play. I can see using McCluster for that, a lot. Motion him out of the backfield to one of the slots and run McClain the other direction. McCluster does more taking a LB/S away from the play than he’d be as a lead-blocker.
One of the things I admired about the Tebow streak was how they just did obvious things, based on what defenses were giving them. Sure they couldn’t get any passing stats, but denying them those stats was resulting in a lot of first downs on the ground, and it DID wear out opposing defenses. After grinding for a while, the need to honor the run, and come up IMMEDIATELY in run support any time Tebow had the bit in his teeth, they got people open enough for Tebow to complete some passes.
I love watching a Belichick team operate during a game. Come in with the best plan they can, for success, but adjusting on both offense and defense. Finding the weaknesses and attacking them. Making it harder and harder to do the things that you want to do, and if you don’t adjust as fast as they do, you’re losing on the percentages, even if you’re as good or even better, personnel-wise.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Dec 19, 2011 3:59 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That, btw, was my biggest concern hiring Haley.
That AZ offense was moribund a good part of that NFCC season, and only began running it with any conviction down the stretch, IIRC. Week in and week out the criticism was about their running game, and all the attention was on the WRs Haley groomed. And I think we all agree that Haley can turn good into great. But the play-action game really came into its own once they started slamming Hightower and James into the wall, and lo and behold, there were occasionally some good holes!
Anyway, different folks came at it from different directions than I did, but I think we were all concerned about game-time mgmt and general demeanor on the sidelines. Haley is the kind of sarcastic SOB that I like having around, to call me out on stuff. But a lot of people don’t “get that” or appreciate it. The thing that sold me on Haley was how he wasn’t at all worried about being challenged by his players. The way he reacted to guys getting fired-up and having an opinion on Game Day was very positive, I thought. I got the impression that he didn’t mind that sort of passion, and wanted to be yelling at guys and getting yelled at.
I still saw a time-out I didn’t like. I’m not sure if it was right after the screen to Jones or after the run play to the 1 that (again, IIRC) followed. Getting 3 yards from the 4 and I feel like I can line up in a hurry and just run to the side with the fewest defenders. A team as hungry as the Chiefs to punch it in ought to be RUNNING to the line of scrimmage after EVERY big play. If THEY’re tired, just think what they just put the defense through. If I see this one change, I’ll be overjoyed at the regime change and root for RAC.
would of ≠ would've
Haley was the problem
Romeo has been doing a good job with the getting the defense ready to play for most of the year and now he had the opportunity to make sure the offense was ready and the results are obvious. I think despite his denials, Haley was interfering with the play calling on offense, that’s why we have had three different offensive coordinators in three years. The first game the OC was able to call plays without interference from Haley, the offense looks good. Some of that could be because Orton is better than Cassel, but the play calling and the players just being prepared to play were the big difference.
JOEL DID THE RAIDERS HIRE YOU AS A CONSULTANT????????????
How many QBs does that team have?
Clark Hunt & Pioli, get some KING KONG BALLS and move up to draft a QB in the 1st RD of the 2012 NFL Draft: RG3, Luck, Jones, or Barkley.
Follow me @ChiefsatWar (Twitter)
Cassel is sooooo mediocre it's ridiculous, we all know it, atleast we all SHOULD know it...
and Haley, I guess isn’t what I thought he was…
the Palko over Orton start vs Da Bears was the final straw…
Viva la Orton…Viva La Romeo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
When to start the new guy is always a touchie situation.
But Haley was always slow to put the new guy on the field. Who’s to say how much Orton benefited from being benched by that dislocated finger. It typically takes 2 or 3 games for the emergency FA QB (for instance, Carson Palmer) to start nailing it down.
To me, the issue was Palko-versus-Stanzi.
Man. After the way Orton played, I feel like Cassel is just the latest Elvis Grbac to come through. Orton is not the most mobile QB, but he was more EFFECTIVELY mobile, in terms of stepping away from heat. And giving HIM time is GOOD for the offense, because he’s not panicking when the ball does NOT come out in less than 3 seconds.
If I hadn’t seen Orton play on Sunday, I would still be in “defend the QB” mode, which I DID for a long time with Grbac, because he could make the throws, had a pretty big arm, and he was pretty fast, on a line, and BIG. I saw enough flaws in the tackle play and down the field to want to see that addressed. In fairness to myself, I didn’t want another SF QB. Bono as Montana’s back-up was bad enough. But a few highlights of Grbac in SF throwing the long ball on the deep drop, with a pocket that stretched to the horizon, and Peterson went gaga.
would of ≠ would've
I think the win reflects poorly on both
On Haley, the play calling was a whole lot better. It felt good to see more than 3 plays called beyond 5 yards and to move the ball up and down the field for a complete game. On Cassal, seeing a QB read the defense and not staring down the receivers and not getting them blown up was nice to see.
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
I don't think you can really compare the play calling...
I think that comes down to a QB that can actually make the throws…with Cassel and Palko there was no confidence…
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Dec 19, 2011 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
Thing about the play calling is that there are multiple routes on every pass play.
I’m not sure if the problem is more the play calling, or the QB not finding the best receiver on a given play.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I feel like it's ALL on the QB
When Palko was in, I could understand the play calling being pretty conservative to prevent him from making mistakes. But I guarantee the play calling was the same or similar for Orton, has it was for Cassel.
Neckbeard put Cassel to shame yesterday. It wasn’t even close. He got the ball out of his hands awfully quick and didn’t hesitate. He just looked so much more confident and composed in the pocket. Went through his progressions. He completed a pass to 10 different players!!!! Cassel can’t do that in an entire season!!!!!!! Plus he has a better arm. Unless something changes in the next 2 games, Neckbeard must be our QB next year.
Orton is just good at the things Cassel struggles with.
Staying calm and searching for the open guy being the big one. Cassel is tougher mentally and physically, a good team leader, outspoken, etc etc. Orton is the better thrower, Cassel is better at most everything else. People who say these guys are the same QB just because of their QB rating make me laugh.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'm a Jack & Coke guy, personally.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Jack and Coke
And maybe the occasional rusty nail or Tom Collins.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
By "old as shit" I think he meant over 21.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I agree completely
And I also think that Orton has waaaay more weapons here than he has had anywhere else. He’s been the same QB as Cassel with way less to work with. Get Charles back out there and I think we’d be pretty legit.
I think if Orton had had the same amount of time with these WRs as Cassel has had,
they’d be legit, right now.
They have their indestructible HB in Thomas Jones, a solid all-around FB with good hands (ALMOST snagged the back end of that football!). They can hurt you in the run game if you don’t honor it. And with Orton, they have a QB who’ll throw the ball to the guy with the best chance to make something out of it.
I don’t think I saw ANY passes that were put up for grabs. Orton made me re-think things quite a bit. I still want to see an OL-heavy draft, and I’m still averse to trading-up for one of the big 3. Orton also reaffirms some of the things I’ve been saying right along. I’m still not in a hurry to draft QB 1st round, because I’m more interested in building a team that a Kyle Orton can succeed with. Actually SEEING him be VERY successful for his first time out tells me that they’ve been off-the-mark with their commitment to Matt Cassel. So my assessment of team-build on offense (withOUT Gaither) has ratcheted up, even though my assessment of their QB-selection-and-development abilities is in the crapper.
would of ≠ would've
They needed Cassel when he came here. They had no locker room leaders on offense, and actually would still be pretty thin there without him.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Strong point for getting off on the right foot.
But the wide gap between what Orton did and what Cassel’s produced suggests that they rewarded hard work and enthusiasm at the expense of quality play. I think Cassel’s been given every opportunity, and the difference between his body of work and the basic good things that Orton did is pretty big.
would of ≠ would've
I've been the new talent who comes in and builds on the foundation that's in place,
and I’ve been the old guy who’s seen the basics that he established be taken advantage of by younger, more “energetic” kids. It kinda sucks to see the work you’ve done actually have a positive effect and not have anybody recognize that in their rush to get new blood in the door.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Points taken. In MY case, you're lookin' at something of a social retard, whose good intentions
and good ideas can get lost by people who maybe aren’t bright enough to follow where I’ve gone or whose skin isn’t as thick as mine. Even if you’re right, people have to be able to get over how they feel about the messenger. There’s a lot of politicking that goes into some jobs – politicking I’m by nature unequipped to provide.
I’m not saying this is what happened to you, at all, but being honest with myself on how folks have perceived me – as opposed to where I thought I was coming from – is what I’m talking about.
I think Haley’s a pretty smart guy, and is honest with himself about things he ought to have done differently. It would’ve been great to learn those lessons and just become a better HC for the Chiefs going forward, but sometimes the clean break is the best thing for both parties. I’ve been in situations where my personality didn’t click with certain people around me, but we kept it civil, I moved on, when I got passed over for promotion, and as far as I know, everybody’s happier, now, except for the time I wasted waiting for the promotion to show up, only to have it handed to a new guy.
would of ≠ would've
They're basically the same dude
in that the sum of their strengths and weaknesses adds up to a mediocre starting NFL QB.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
That's valid if you're looking at an end-of-career stat sheet, but not if you're trying to see which one fits better on a certain team.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I'd agree Orton is probably a better fit for this team
But, I’m not confident either of them would result in a Super Bowl.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Yeah, but who would you be confident with?
If we had Brady or Rodgers, would you plunk down a big pre-season bet on our Superbowl chances? Not saying we’re a bad team, just saying that NO team can ever really be confident that they’ll win a Superbowl.
As an outsider, I can say “yeah, looks like the Pack’s gonna win this year.” But if I was actually a Packers fan, I’d be a lot more nervous about it.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I would like to finally draft, develop and play our own guy
My point isn’t that I expect to be SB favorites every year. My point is that I like our chances much better going the draft/develop route than the philosophy we have tried for the last 28 years. Finding the best available journeyman.
Drafting a guy doesn’t always work. It may bot even work the majority of the time. But the track record for draft and develop is much better than the alternative.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
I agree. But now, we have to worry about finding the right QB coach.
I’d be comfortable with Zorn, but will he stay on after this year?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
If our HC can't find/hire someone to be a good QB coach
then we hired the wrong HC anyway.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Impression about Zorn:
I saw just one episode on Sunday, where it appeared Zorn was going over to say something to Crennel about the previous play, and Crennel was just calmly going about the concerns of the NEXT play. He didn’t ignore Zorn, but sort of held out a hand to let Zorn know he was trying to get something else done.
Just an impression. Whatever the deal with the “eye in the sky,” the offense appeared to run more smoothly, and the QB had the necessary authority pre-snap. QB makes a difference in that, but so might having Haley in your ear, for all I know. It wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that Haley overruled the playcall on occasion, and that some of those occasions coincided with Cassel holding his hands up and glaring at the sideline as if to say “Make up yo’ damn mine!”
would of ≠ would've
Impression about Zorn
The majority of the QBs he has worked with wind up being very mediocre.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Yeah, but how do they start out?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Ya got me ;)
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
I think this year is totally up for grabs.
There are a couple really smart teams in GB and NE, and they’re also pretty talented. But both teams have exploitable weaknesses, too. Then there’s the Dream Team in Philly, who are STILL in the mix, with unstoppable talent, but who can stop themselves. The Giants are capable of putting in a perfect game, as well as a very imperfect game.
It depends on who clicks when they face. I saw a pretty lame excuse for an offense last night from the Ravens, but I know on any given day, they can CRUSH the Steelers.
The way the matchups are matching-up this season is like nothing I’ve ever seen. KC, for instance, matched up surprisingly well with the finesse teams (at least for part of a game in NE), but got run over by a few teams that are just plain better up front. But more than usual, it seems like there are teams doing it in unique ways.
would of ≠ would've
I think
these two were tied together. They couldn’t stretch the field because of Cassel’s arm, so they adjusted their play calling accordingly.
They hit on some nice double moves with Cassel, but not enough.
And with Orton in there, it found its way to a man with an edge on the coverage, in whatever way, shape or form, and the ball was well (-enough) placed to exploit that edge. There was no apparent bias for going to a particular guy. The Guy was the Open Guy. Very refreshing to see. So unlike watching Cassel or Palko.
would of ≠ would've
Horne doesn't deserve to be celebrating in that picture.
Worst punt block attempt ever.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 1:38 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
it was like he he couldn't beleive he came through untouched, hesitated, then the monstrosity that ensued sickened me...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Block attempt?
You can’t even call it an “attempt”. Because he didn’t attempt to do anything other than run into the kicker. Which he did just fine.
My earliest Chiefs memories are watching guys named Dawson, Podolak, Taylor, Thomas, Bell, and Buchanan. So, yeah...I'm kind of an old fart.
Someone needs to bring Albert Lewis in for a punt blocking seminar
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
If those are our only 2 choices of head coach
Please dear God let it be Crennel
-Kool Aid drinking Cassel Believer-
Buffalo W (0-1) @Indianapolis W (3-2) Denver W (4-5) @Jets W (6-7)
@Detroit W (0-2) @Oakland L (3-3) @New England L(5-5) Green Bay L (6-8)
@San Diego L (1-2) San Diego W (4-3) Pittsburgh W (5-6) Oakland W
Minnesota W (2-2) Miami W (4-4) @Chicago W (6-6) @Denver W
Thunder Win-Loss 2011-2012 record (52-14)
Western division champs
NBA Champs over Miami Heat
I could definitely roll with Crennel, at this point and into the next season.
He’s always wanted his chance with a FO that gets the job done.
I’m not sure if he worked with Mike Lombardi in Cleveland, or to what extent. Was Lombardi out the door with Belichick by the time Crennel took over? Lombardi obviously sees what he started in Cleveland as the foundation for what Belichick perfected in New England. I just wish I remembered the chronology better. Did Crennel get his shot in Cleveland off his DC stint in New England?
Anyway, just the things people said about RAC being clear, on-message, and basically respectful and courteous to everyone. That he inspired respect, affection and loyalty from all of his players. A guy like that is good for that top leadership spot, provided he also brings the discipline, too, which apparently he does. Final thing in his favor is being able to see the game from a lineman’s perspective, and structuring and running things accordingly.
I bet the linemen LOVED the lifting coming after the running. Probably the last thing they wanted to do was go out on the practice field after lifting. Just my guess.
would of ≠ would've
Yeah, Romeo got his shot in Cleveland because of his NE performance. But I can't remember who is GM was.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Found it - Phil Savage.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Crennel and Savage were both hired together in 2005. Here's how Wikipedia says they left Cleveland:
The Browns entered the 2008 season with high expectations, and many pundits predicted that the team would win the division. The highlight of the season was an upset of the defending Super Bowl champion New York Giants on Monday Night Football. However, inconsistent play and key injuries led to a disappointing 4–12 record. The Browns ended up using four starting quarterbacks during the season: Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn and Ken Dorsey were lost to injury; the fourth, Bruce Gradkowski, was hired mid-season. Ending with six straight losses, the Browns finished with a franchise first two consecutive shutouts Savage and Crennel were subsequently fired.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
If you have a legitimate shot at signing Jeff Fisher you do it.
The guy is the definition of consistency which is what Pioli/Hunt want. He doesn’t have a ring so he still has that fire to scrap to the mountain top. Romeo is a nice Plan B though.
well, to be fair
He was 1 yard away from getting the TD and then needing to make the XP to tie the game and go to overtime – the TD wouldn’t have won the game. Final score, 23-16 Rams. Won by 7.
by Ochophosphate on Dec 19, 2011 5:10 PM CST up reply actions
If by 'consistency' you mean ...
… fielding teams that are 8-8 or worse and known for their dirty players (Haynesworth, Finnegan, etc.), then yes.
16 seasons, only six of which were better than mediocre. No thanks.
Eh, Bud Adams has as much or more to do with bringing in the bad attitude guys
Bud is Al Davis Lite.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Regardless, Fisher being a good coach is a myth.
He’s a mediocre coach at best.
A couple of 13-3 seasons gave him a better than .500 win percentage, but that doesn’t excuse 66% of his tenure being average or below.
Bud also constantly had his hands in the day to day operations
Telling Fisher his has to play this guy and not that guy.
I’m not saying Fisher is the greatest thing since sliced bread (I do love me some sammiches). But to not look at his career in the context of the Bud Adams circus in Nashville is not putting in due diligence.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
To have lasted so long without self-destructing, maybe Fisher actually has the patience of a saint.
He got a lot of good years out of Haynesworth, which is more than you could say about Belichick.
Still, I think Crennel gives the Chiefs their best chance of maintaining continuity on the things they’ve been doing right and tweaking the things that maybe weren’t. What’s been said about the way they went about preparing this past week says something very positive about Crennel, especially if it continues these next two games. I think Haley wanted to see more film study, and he created more space for that, and was congratulatory of the players who used those rooms, but it sounds like Crennel structures team-wide film study to a greater extent than Haley. It likely gets the players more involved in the bigger picture, which has to be good.
would of ≠ would've
Agreed
And I’m sorry, but even if he thought Vince Young was a complete piece of shit, it was ridiculous for him to stick with Kerry Collins for as long as he did.
Fisher played favorites…regardless of whether the results on the field said it was a good or bad idea.
So mad we didn't sign him before the season started.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I never had a really high opinion of Kerry Collins, but then when I see him get a little time and an open man,
he makes good throws.
I’m pretty guilty of reserving judgement on Cassel, but Collins is definitely one I can point to as being a decent QB in some not-great situations. I don’t see him lifting a team on his shoulders, but I’ve seen him do things in decent situations that are on par with what I saw from Orton, yesterday.
would of ≠ would've
Just in case you missed it, here's the Titans' owner in all his charming glory
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Did the FCC make you pixelate that?
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Yeah, the motherf***in sons of b****es
They follow me all over the f***in place. Can’t say s*** anymore. It’s like a G** d*** V-chip. I feel like motherf***in Cartman up in here.
F***!!!
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
by TRSChief on Dec 19, 2011 2:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
How can you even tell who that is?
I mean, I know Bud flipped the bird, but for as clear as that photo is, it may be Billy Graham in it and you wouldn’t know for difference.
And maybe a news article, with a link to the video of him doing it
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
No seriously
I’m telling you, the guy is batshit crazy.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Marge Schott crazy?
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Yeah. And not even exaggerating for comic effect.
The dude is nuts.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
We are aware of this.
Another reason I hate Todd Haley even more right now.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
Yeah, that last Palko start is even tougher to swallow right now
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I disagree...
Jeff Fisher had his chance for 16+ yrs…
But what exactly did Fisher do to deserve to be in charge for so long? He never won a Super Bowl, and ONLY made it to one.
I’ll tell you… He’s MEDIA SAVVY….
He had a whopping six winning seasons in his sixteen years
Maybe if He’s hired by Kansas City. Your team might go to super bowl once in 16yrs and then Lose by a TD
Bottom line: He’s OVERRATED
I'm having issues.
I feel like I should know the player in the beanie, white shirt, red sleeves right behind Zorn, but I can’t place a name to a face.
Anyone?
You think it's coincidence that I bleed red?
From a distance it looks like NT Anthony Toribio
by Joel Thorman on Dec 19, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, I believe you are correct...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
It would be nice to have Powe suit up...
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Free Powe!
I feel guilty saying that after telling so many Stanziholics to shut up……
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Im ok with him sitting out.
Now that RAC is running the show, if he thought for any reason Powe should be playing he would be. The fact Powe is still not active tells me he’s got a ways to go yet. There’s still hope that he turns out to be something but maybe we’ll be looking for our solution in FA this year.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 1:51 PM CST up reply actions
I think it also has a lot to do with how Powe only knows the nose,
and how much nickel and dime we play. I think it’s between Powe and Gordon, and Gordon is by far more versatile.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
There's that too and Gordon has played pretty well.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 1:58 PM CST up reply actions
That sack he had was a thumper
That one probably hurt – it was about as solid a sack as you can have, power drive right through the gut and to the ground. Wouldn’t have been surprised if I had been able to hear the “thud” on TV… or a clear “ugh” from Rodgers.
by Ochophosphate on Dec 19, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
I said way back in training camp that Bailey might accidentally kill somebody.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
That could be it, Brsrkr.
From what I’ve seen, he’s good enough to activate if Gregg gets banged-up. And I think he’d play up to Gregg’s level fairly quickly if he got thrown into the fire. But there’s clearly no urgency on the matter, especially, as others point out, Amon Gordon’s looking pretty good.
would of ≠ would've
yeah, a little game experience in the rotation would be nice...
but I trust RAC to put the best players out there…
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
If you can keep Rac on as DC then I think it's a no brainer to bring in Fisher as HC.
But Crennel staying here as DC at minimum is a must.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
Agreed
Crennel needs to be here. If bringing in a different HC means Crennel gets let go, role with Crennel.
This is what I'm thinking
If it’s true that the Fisher deal was pretty much settled like they’re saying, my hope is that RAC said he’d do the last three weeks fully understanding that he’d be giving up the HC chair to Fisher to return as DC. If Fisher agreed to and is willing to work with Crennel and his syestem then I think it’s ideal.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Why would RAC stay as DC?
There are several teams looking for a HC and he is not just auditioning for the Chiefs. Romeo is likely going to be offered a HC job after this year because of his consistent success on defense and derailing the Pack.
On a side note, I don’t want Fisher here. He’s a defensive guy and prefers 3-4, u don’t think his body of work in Tenn was very good especially considering the time he was given.
by Spiderwomn69 on Dec 19, 2011 5:32 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
My only concern
is Fisher comes in and hires his own DC, and changes the D scheme. We can’t afford to have that happen. This D is a couple pieces away from being elite. If we change schemes, that changes the personnel needs.
Twitter: @RaiderHater86
I don't see a transition to a 4-3 that big of a deal
In fact they may even be better in a 4-3. They are still missing the centerpiece of their 3-4, a stud at Nose Tackle. Plus a lot of these guys have already played in a 4-3.
This makes Powe sad.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
He'd be a man without a position for sure.
A 4-3 means Dorsey and TJax on the inside.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 1:59 PM CST up reply actions
Powe and TJax, trade Dorsey?
Run inside between those two.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Dorsey is a beastmaster in 4-3
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Not in the NFL. Not so far as we've seen, anyway.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
He wasn't his rookie year with little to no help on the inside.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 2:14 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that's "so far as we've seen."
He might be good in a 4-3 with a space eater like TJax or Powe next to him. Personally, I hope we don’t have to find out.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
We can have another team test the theory
and trade him for a good pick
Todd Haley lost 7 of his last 15 games by 20 or more points. It was time for him to go.
by joplin chiefs fan on Dec 19, 2011 2:21 PM CST up reply actions
That might be best for us and Dorsey.
Only problem is that they’d have to go off his LSU tape, because he didn’t look so good in the 4-3 here in KC.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
What about Hali?
He never played all that well with his hand in the dirt. If we switch back to a 4-3, would he be a DE or OLB?
DE.
He had by far his best 4-3 games at LDE with Allen at RDE as the primary pass rusher.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Who would be his RDE?
Hali has struggled in the past at RDE, so changing schemes could eliminate our best pass rusher. Houston has been playing well, but his skill set seems to fit a 3-4 as well. Trying to change back to a 4-3 at this point would not be the best fit for our defensive talent.
Hali was also still young and developing
Hali in his prime would probably be just fine at RDE.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
He was more of a rush end at Penn State.
And toward the end of our 4-3, I remember that he was getting injured more often. I think playing above his weight might have done that.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Possible
I’m just having a hard time with the idea that a guy with his motor and talent would fail.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Given how strong Houston looks at the POA
I don’t see him having a problem as a 4-3 DE. In fact, it MAY suit him better since he’d never have to be in coverage.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
He was touted as the most 3-4-OLB-like of any of the tweeners in last year's draft.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
While there'd be better stout in the middle than Hali enjoyed during his LDE stretch,
he’d still be asked to hold up against the strong side runs versus the pro set. That was his weakness in his first KC incarnation. It would remain his weakness, and he WOULD be more injury-prone, because he’d give his all in a losing battle, much of the time.
Hali would’ve been about as good as Jared Allen at RDE, imo, but he was better than Allen at LDE, imo.
One of the reasons I’m pro-3-4 is it’s easier to find a home for good DTs and ‘tweeners, like Hali and Houston. I think there’s a little less emphasis on depth at NT, with the way offenses like to spread things out, these days, but still the 3-4 gives you more of a shot at getting needed production from those ‘tweener DE prospects, without worrying about them having to be a bookend 300-pounder, who can run like the wind, like Neil Smith. Championship 4-3 defenses are a lot tougher to staff on the front 4 than it is to staff this 3-4. And they can always get the most out of those ’tweener OLBs, as much as you get from great 4-3 DEs, when you’re in nickel ‘n’ dime.
would of ≠ would've
Agree, I like the 3-4 better.
It just makes more sense to me. And like you said, if you run a 4-3 then you’re just adding one or two more “star” positions at the DE spots that you’d have to draft/pay for.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Not to mention the depth concerns when your defense is based on those 4 guys.
And there’s not much way to conceal your intentions with that 4-man front. Sure, you can twist and stunt and occasionally drop a fattie into a short zone on an outside-the-box zone-blitz, but the offense gets a lot of predictability from those 4 guys with their hands in the dirt, and they have to be DOMINATING in their level of execution. The 3-4, especially the way Crennel runs it, gives him more leeway and more of a rotation, imo.
would of ≠ would've
Romeo
Should be our head coach. Even if there is a better coach out there “on paper”, these guys want to play for Romeo and demonstrated that yesterday. If we could get an elite coach it wouldn’t matter if the team didn’t want to play for him.
In addition to the “right 53 players” there should also be the “right 18 coaches”. In this case I think Crennel is the right Head Coach for our team based on how the team rallied for him.
by chiefs_kc_fan on Dec 19, 2011 1:51 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
Thats true - they really wanted RAC to win
I’m torn then on who should be the OC – then the DC for that matter
If Crennel stays
he will get to handpick his DC. So pretty much whoever he wants. If it were up to me, I’d go after Keith Butler (LB Coach – Pittsburgh), he’s been turning out fabulous LBs for Pittsburgh for nearly a decade now.
Gary Gibbs would also be a legitimate choice.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
He's been turning out fabulous LBs on our team for a few years now.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 2:17 PM CST up reply actions
Also has experience as a DC if I'm not mistaken.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Romeo pointed to Gibbs and Emmit Thomas providing huge support during the GB game.
Twitter: @RaiderHater86
Heh, yeah either one of those guys would be a legit DC candidate.
I guess that’s one benefit to loading up your coaching staff with old farts.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
No Thanks On Gibbs As DC
Saints fans were ecstatic when he got fired there and they upgraded with Gregg Williams. His defenses in New Orleans were absolutely horrible…and they improved significantly, with the same personnel pretty much, once he was gone.
Yeah, I remember that's how we got him.
Who would you want to have as DC? IF Romeo becomes HC, that is.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
IF we stay in house
I would say Anthony Pleasant or Emmit Thomas. If we look somewhere else I say Pitts LB coach
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
I'd Go With Thomas
He did a decent job in Atlanta as I recall. Or go with a young outside hire. I’m not that picky about it…I just don’t want someone with an established track record of failure at the job.
Would Emmitt push for DBs from the earlier KC tradition?
If so, that could be a nice match. I DO want to see the team migrate away from cover-2 philosophy. Of course that can change with the return of Eric Berry, but right now, with the likes of McGraw and Piscitelli on hand, deep safety just seems to mean there are more guys in the camera frame when the receiver gets behind you.
would of ≠ would've
I've been wanting to add a cover-type safety for awhile
as opposed to a more run-stopping safety. Now, after seeing them play Daniels over Finley yesterday, I’m feeling somewhat smug.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
In case your starting TE covering guy goes down.
So, what took him so long to get on the field?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
No Clue
Defense looked a bit chaotic at times yesterday. Guess they were still adjusting to Crennel moving up. Maybe that had something to do with it.
I think they knew they needed to mix it up for 4 quarters in the planning part,
and Daniels was an important piece, there. Finley’s on the WR end of the TE continuum, near as I can tell. Daniels is pretty good at that man-off stuff, too. Maybe just not physical enough on the re-direct? But he has that hip flexibility. Combine that with smart pre-game preps, and he has some darn good anticipation.
would of ≠ would've
No doubt
and Crennel may feel more comfortable with the familiar face and Gibbs may have a similar mind to Crennel now after working together. I’d like them to look around the league though and see if there are any other candidates to consider.
Crennel gets the job, there will be minimal changes to defensive coaching staff, Pioli will make the suggestion on the OC
and the OC will pick his staff there, so there will be a number of changes on offense.
Crennel is not HC, there will be a transition year where not too many changes occur, then a shake out, the new coach will want his idea’s there.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
If that's the case
I hope Crennel is DC. I think we are very close to having the playing talent for a run into the postseason. Having chaos in the coaching staff would set that back. Go with RAC and let Pioli find the talent to fill the roster.
Its still only one game
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
But it does change the landscape
Not that I think Crennel will be the best head coach ever after that one game, but I do won’t to keep him on the staff. Crennel has made big strides wit this defense. if he is unwilling to work with another HC, keep Crennel. Rolling with a new HC, OC, and DC going into next season is not exactly continuity.
this league is week to week
we could lose next week and everybody will jump off the bandwagon….lets just see how the rest of the season plays out….it was one win…a GREAT win, but lets not hang our hat on it yet
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
But But But
What good is having knees if you don’t make them jerk?
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Nice to see
It was great to have a coach, cool and collected during the game, without blowing his cool, every 5 minutes. I really like Romeos personality.
did anyone notice that ball that orton stuck into baldwin’s hands at the goal line? not sure if cassel could make that throw. don’t want to go overboard abt orton. He’s just got a better arm and maybe more poise than cassel.
And with Jamaal Charles behind him that play action fake would be legendary.
And just think about those screens if Charles was on the receiving end. Orton has some great ball skills for sure.
No homo.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 19, 2011 2:16 PM CST up reply actions
Ortons play fakes were pretty good
With JC even better. Hey, since he’s from the Denver system I could see us doing more boots too!
You Play to Win the game!!!
by Wichita Chief on Dec 19, 2011 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Cassel got the same play fakes and the same time off those play fakes.
So did Palko. But DOING something with that extra second or two? Had to wait for Orton to come to see THAT.
would of ≠ would've
I can't tell how their arm strength compares
But Orton looked like the more accurate passer based on a few of those throws yesterday. The only miss I can really remember was on a quick slant to Breaston that could’ve been a TD if it wasn’t behind him. It could’ve been poorly thrown, but that also could’ve been a miscommunication due to them playing together for the first time.
by Chatch McNasty on Dec 19, 2011 2:40 PM CST up reply actions
What impressed me was that there weren't more miscommunications, considering it was Orton's first start.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
It's just one game, guys.
One wonderful, glorious game, but still just one game. All of our problems are not solved just because of one good game.
How many dropped passes did Greenbay have yesterday . . . ?
not nearly enough
they scored 14 on us, I wanted a shutout.
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
at least two
running into the punter and 12 men on the field on their first FG attempt…
It is time to anoint the Stanzi. He is The One.
How many times did Hali get held,
I know 9 point difference if they call those holds.
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
All aboard the Crennel train!!!! But don't you think
someone might want to know if Crennel is even interested in the job. Interim is one thing to take on, full time is another. Let’s add to this so far one sided arguement that Crennel is 64. My guess is that Hunt and Pioli would prefer a longer term solution even though we fans can’t see much past our own peckers.
But for now, just bask in the warmth of a December victory!
by BCRavenJHawkfan on Dec 19, 2011 2:29 PM CST reply actions
He said in his first press conference that he wants another chance to be head coach
I think coaching the guys he’s been around for the last 2 years would probably be his first choice team
by Chatch McNasty on Dec 19, 2011 2:41 PM CST up reply actions
Hell, I haven't seen my pecker in 10 years
reminds me, I need to go on a diet.
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
by ChiefWildcat on Dec 19, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
According to BC, a diet would be bad for your eyes.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
You saying I might need new spectacles, too.
Damn, I’m getting old.
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
by ChiefWildcat on Dec 19, 2011 2:51 PM CST up reply actions
Man goes into the doctor...
he says “I’m getting too fat. I can’t see my penis anymore.”
Doctor looks down, looks back up and says “Diet”.
Misunderstanding the man says “Dye it? My god, what color is it NOW?”
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 19, 2011 3:05 PM CST up reply actions
He already said he wants the job permanently.
More than once.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Depends on what happens the next two games.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
What if
the team plays great the next two games, and the first 10 games next season, then starts getting injured and tired and fat because Romeo has them spending too much time in the film room?
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Not enough data.
Ask me again after it actually happens.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Just sharing my nightmare.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I have reservations about every candidate mentioned.
Some worse than others.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Kind of my nightmare, too.
The big men don’t always appreciate what’s best for ‘em. There can be things they hate doing, but which keeps them on the field all season. I’m optimistic that Crennel will keep what makes sense from Body by Haley and scrap whatever doesn’t.
would of ≠ would've
Those are very tough questions..
Tough especially at this time to answer with it being only ONE game. However, if Orton were to continue to play at that level and consistency to finish the season, then I do not see how the Chiefs could let him walk. That being said, keep Cassel and let them battle it out as you said on the radio. Either way, you’d end up with a decent backup qb. Also like you said it would be nice to also go ahead and draft a qb in the first round and plan for the future. Why not right? I would really love this scenario.
Joel, it was fun getting to listen to your thoughts on these topics for a change. Perhaps AP could have a Joel Q&A once a week or month where readers can pick your brain on Chiefs related topics.
by MelNerz on Dec 19, 2011 2:45 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'd be OK with Orton, letting Cassel walk, and drafting another developmental guy.
I’d be OK with keeping Cassel another year, but any decent evaluation process is going to put Orton ahead of Cassel, because of decision-making and accuracy.
would of ≠ would've
Hey Joel,
You said, (Bring as much talent as possible is my opinion. ) on the QB situation. Then why did you say bring Cassel back. HAHA
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
my opinion
1. Crennel. While I’m not thrilled with his record in Cleveland I also know that it’s hard for anyone to succeed in Cleveland with their owner. Fisher had some mediocre to good seasons with Eddie George and Steve McNair (8-8, 8-8, 8-8, 13-3, 13-3, 7-9, 11-5, 12-4) but then tanked when he left so I’m not sure what to make of him because I’ve never followed the Titans. Was Fisher getting a lot out of a mediocre QB and RB or was he doing as well as he did because they were there. My gut reaction is that Fisher is rather average.
2. I agree with you on keeping orton and Cassel (as a backup) but how do you know Stanzi ca’t develop into a starting QB?
3. Cassel. What I saw yesterday was a team that just executed a lot better, mostly because there was a QB who could work through the progressions and put zome oomph on the ball when he threw it.
I also wondered about Stanzi's role in Joel's QB plan.
I’m not nearly the Stanziholic some others are, but I wouldn’t want to see a fifth round pick just wasted.
I’d like to keep Orton or Cassel, Stanzi as our “veteran” backup, and bring in a first round talent.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
I know this isn't a popular opinion but...
I have this gut feeling that they are trying to protect Stanzi until he is absolutely set up to succeed if and when that happens. It 100% confidence or zero. If this were true it would be Pioli’s call.
This is probably not the case but is does make me wonder..
I think Stanzi was right where they wanted him this 1st season: Inactive on Game Day, but continuing to develop.
Haley and others have pointed out how it takes time for QBs to really begin processing everything they’re seeing. There are some things that most potentially-good QBs have to have pointed out to them and that they have to work on. And it takes time to turn those lessons into something you just do automatically. It’s tough to look off a safety, if it takes you a full second to decide if your WR has an edge, and where the opening is going to be. It’s see-at-a-glance stuff that some learn quicker than others, but which some can never quite master, because they just aren’t equipped with the vision or brain.
I think Brokie Croyle was one of those. I think his being prone to injury was as much due to how quick he was to make his decisions as anything to do with toughness. I’ve seen him pop back up after some horrific hits. But it looked to me like he set himself up to take more of those horrific hits, and put himself in a bad position to start with. He was a little too much on the foolishness side of the courage equation. But it all comes down to making snap decisions, and Orton showed much more capacity in one (lucky-to-be-facing-GB-D) situation than I’ve seen from Cassel.
Maybe Cassel just has too much baggage from all the blind-siding when he DID trust what he was getting. But seeing Orton almost always delivering strikes when he had time, and Cassel flat-out rushing or flat-out missing on most of those same opportunities has me squarely in Orton’s corner. I don’t think you need to go 1st round and look for miracles, though. I think you can bring in guys like Tom Brady, who have it upstairs and in their hearts, and be patient with them, while you bring in your Ortons and Bledsoe’s until The Day.
would of ≠ would've
Major major salary cap issues and an aging team
The years following George’s trade to Dallas and before McNair’s eventual departure were a cap nightmare caused by “going for gold” with the team that almost won it in 1999/2000. There was a lot of turnover but they also had to dump a lot of talent. That’s when you lost guys like Derrick Mason, Samari Rolle… guys retired like Frank Wycheck, and Bruce Matthews. The team more or less had to be entirely scrapped and rebuilt from the ground up. I want to say by 2003 or ’04, there were almost no players remaining from the teams that were extremely dominant in 1999 and 2000 (and the 2k team was better than the ’99 team that almost won the SB).
Fisher basically got to do what most coaches don’t get the chance to do – he got to rebuild his own team rather than getting fired and having another coach come in and rebuild it instead. Despite some clashes with ownership, and iffy QB play, he was able to put together another highly competitive team before leaving.
I’m a mixed bag with Fisher. I like him, he did well while he was here, he was well liked by the community. For cryin out loud he had the longest tenure as coach with one team since Cowher did it with the Steelers. On the other hand I don’t want him to swap us over to a 4-3 considering we’ve invested in a 3-4 for years, and there’s always the question of whether or not he has another serious run left in him.
He also does have a bit of a stubborn streak – if you recall he picked up Randy Moss in his final year to fill in while Kenny Britt was down. Except when Kenny came back, he put Randy on the bench and refused to start him along-side Britt. His excuse was that Moss and Britt were the same and played the same spot. For the life of me I couldn’t understand why you wouldn’t put them opposite each other to open the field.
by Ochophosphate on Dec 19, 2011 5:47 PM CST up reply actions
I think the only answer at coach that doesn't include Crennel is Andy Ried.
1) Fisher will make the Chiefs a very decent team. Decent is not what I am looking for.
2)Fat Andy is smart enough to let Romeo (should he stay) do his thing on defense.
3)He will bring consistent offensive game plans which is what this offense needs.
Of course this is if the Eagles are stupid enough to let him go. I think Andy Ried is the best guy for the job. Best fit and the best way to not get rid of the good things we have going to fix the bad.
Maybe he could make Muir our DC
kidding…kidding….
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KC_Satchmo on Dec 19, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
And great job on the radio today Joel.
I completly agree with what you said about the QB’s. While I think it is the right aproach, I don’t see them actually going that route.
I keep hearing that KC is "not a horrible team"
Look at point differential and points scored. We are near the bottom in both categories.
Only team worse than us in points scored is the St. Louis Rams (and everyone is saying we should get THEIR HC for our OC??).
Only teams worse than us in point differential are the Rams, the Buccaneers, and the Colts.
So, yeah, while our defense has played some inspired defense 3 out of the last 4 games, I’d say we are a pretty bad team. We rank 10th in most points given up (10th in the bad way…only 9 teams have given up more points…Admittedly, much of that can be blamed on our offense, turning the ball over on the bad side of the field. Still. We are not a good team, even if we did beat the Pack.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 19, 2011 3:02 PM CST reply actions
You are what your record says you are.
Point differential only counts in tie breakers, and it’s way down the list even there. This ain’t soccer, thank God.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
Stats do lie
The point differential is because of the 5 blowouts. The 5 blowouts was because the offense did nothing but go 3 and out leaving the defense on the field for most of the game.
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
QB 2012 and Beyond
If you go that route with Cassel, Orton, then what do you do about Stanzi. Say it was a wasteof a 5th round pick or do you give him a shot?
You could always bring 4 QBs to camp
Keep the guy who wins the job and trade/release the guy who doesn’t and wind up with Starter/Stanzi/Rookie as your 3
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
That's too sensical to work.
When you gotta go in the lion's den, you don't go quiet. You go in loud, kick the door down and say WHERE IS THE SONUVABITCH. -B. Billick
problem is you lose your chance to get another draft pic
Orton Auditions for the job the next two games.
pull the triger.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 4:06 PM CST up reply actions
Nope
You just lose the chance to get that draft pick in the 2012 draft.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Probably keep Stanzi and see how he developes. I’m not sure how many years cassel has left on his contract, but let him walk when it expires and hopefully stanzi will be ready to step in as the viable backup or potential starter depending. While also hopefully drafting a qbotf.
by MelNerz on Dec 19, 2011 3:11 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with your evaluation of the situation 100%.
Chemistry has a lot to do with a football team’s success and it apparent the chemistry is right with Crennel. Now if the “football brains” are just bright enough to realize all the above facts and not screw the situation up even further the way they did with the quarterbacks.
"The Hammer"
I could really rally around Orton.
It’s not like he has played poorly anywhere he went. He averaged more points that Teblow in Denver. Played well for Chicago. Almost broke Dan Marino’s yrds record. He has never been shown defference when he has a bad game. EVERY QB has a bad game or two.
I agree with dbakerku and a few others, Joel.
I think that we should keep RAC as HC, and trust his judgment on an OC.
After watching Orton yesterday, how can you even think of supporting bringing back Cassel, especially without seeing Stanzi with the 1st team, unless Orton doesn’t want to re-sign with the Chiefs and no other QB is available who is better than Cassel. After watchng Cam, and a couple other rookie QB’s, I have no problem with drafting a QB to groom for the future. I’m convinced that Cassel will never be more than a descent backup with a good o-line and good play-calling.
The Chiefs’ victory yesterday reflects negatively on both Haley and Cassel.
Simple Answer: HALEY!!!
PROOF:
Barry Richardson didn’t play Barry Awful like he has been, and that has something to do with the preparation and coaching.
LeRon McClain looked mean.
Thomas Jones ran like a kid in his twenties all hopped up on RedBull.
Bill Muir & Jim Zorn probably didn’t know they could coach without being interupted all time…
Clark Hunt & Pioli, get some KING KONG BALLS and move up to draft a QB in the 1st RD of the 2012 NFL Draft: RG3, Luck, Jones, or Barkley.
Follow me @ChiefsatWar (Twitter)
I disagree
i also think its too soon to say anyone was holding us back. That was an awful defence we played yesterday. A complete offensive team that faced a good (even better lately) defence….Tamba was awesome.
You all will need someone to BLAME if we lose out, so hold your horses.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
Thomas Jones
ran at a 3.1 clip……..everyone has blinders on today?
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Dec 19, 2011 3:58 PM CST up reply actions
He was up one tick
so that was the Haley effect.. lol he has some nice runs though, good catch I think or two. more production then in a while.
Haley’s offense, without being over micro managed, probably Haley’s biggest problem.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Jones was corralled when he was properly defensed.
He had some big plays when he wasn’t. That’s pretty much what I’m asking for from an indestructible running back. I don’t much care about the YPC, when what he did was integral to the overall game plan, and he made some big plays off the good opportunities he got. KC RBs are still being greeted by d-linemen in the backfield too often. But at least defenses have to sell out to stop the run. The quality of the play-action passing was high enough to tip the scales to victory. And as the game wore on, KC was running BETTER. That was huge.
Now they just have to tighten-up the execution a teensy bit and they’re scoring more TDs from outside the 20 and punching more in from inside the 20.
would of ≠ would've
I think if you asked the team they would say Muir
but I think they kept showing Zorning calling the plays. Hard to say.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 4:03 PM CST up reply actions
Yesterday?
Zorn didn’t even have a play sheet. He was relaying plays to Orton. The guy in the booth can’t even talk to the QB, so you need someone on the sidelines for that.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Dang I would have thought RAC would have fix that by now.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
I see what you did there.
I never did the see the big deal about the playcalling system. Nobody complained about it last year, when it was Weis and Sirianni instead of Muir and Zorn.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
To soon to tell, but here are my knee-jerk answers to the questions
1. Crennel needs to stay. If he’s willing to be DC under Fisher, that would be great. If he’s not, keep RAC and let him hand-pick his defensive staff.
2. Let Orton finish the season before making a decision. If he keeps playing like he did yesterday, sign him to a 2-3 year contract. Draft O-line in the 1st round and consider taking a QB in the 2nd or 3rd. That takes some pressure off Orton and gives us a chance to grow the position. I’m not sold on Stanzi being the man going forward; unlike a lot of folks around here, I was unimpressed by most of his college portfolio.
3. Haley was most to blame. Cassel’s play this season was ugly, but I think that reflects on decisions made by Haley or because of Haley. The carousel we’ve had at OC likely kept Cassel from developing to his full potential. As well as suspect decisions made for who rides the bench and who sees game time (one solid game does not excuse playing BRich the entire season).
Share my 2-cents on your post...
1. RAC stays agreed…Fisher not sold he’s a must-hire really, more coz of idea of continuity with current team (i.e. Parcells, Belichik like-minded coaches)
2. Agreed, unless top4 QB is available when we pick :)
3. Not blaming Todd for Cassel’s play and apparent lack of development. Related to this, was rooting for Stanzi to play, but I can see how he was just not ready and could be more damaging to start him way too early. I also saw the attempt to ease in Orton by the time the Bears game came around, but as luck would have it he injured his finger! I’d speculate that if Orton played in that game we’d still see Haley as HC, and looking fwd to nxt year with him as coach. (BUT still demanding a new OC!!)
matt
If you look at the two it seems like KO is quicker getting the ball out . And the pass location looked a hole lot better Bowe was not leaving his feet much to catch the ball Also hell he made pope look like a real tight end . And GB knows the diffrence in the Two they did not blitz him much wich was getting done to matt and that other guy .And they did it to matt in the pre season lets not forget the pancake sack he took in preseason because of the blitzs and then everybody all season has been doing this so is there something about matt speed that was exposed last year and then put in bright light in the playoff we did not see .I did not see alot of droped balls out there the rookie gave us a huge one and pope but for the most part not many .Thats because of better ball location by the QB so yea matt looks bad.
Actually, Joel, some teams do everything they can to get that special QB,
and they chase after it like it’s the Dragon Scroll, and QB is the Secret Ingredient, and only a few who go chasing actually end up with perennially contending teams. More often, they just have QB controversies on teams that most outsiders see as having clear problems elsewhere. And I don’t want KC to be one of those teams.
I’m VERY biased the other way, largely because of the futile QB-chasing by KC coaching and mgmt, when they already had a perfectly good Rich Gannon playing for them. Year after year, they were satisfied with a team that was collecting holes, and unaware of a perfectly good QB already in-house. They kept looking for finishing touches on a team that just needed to keep going to the well until they got it RIGHT up front.
Neil Smith, Vaughn Booker, John Tate – it’s not like they didn’t find quality big men, but they couldn’t keep ‘em happy, when they had them. It seemed to me like the big men weren’t as high on the priority list. They kept reaching for miracles at LB, RB and TE. Important positions, but more something you add on top to something already pretty well built, and they raise your team from very good to something great.
Ironically, Orton’s performance Sunday indicated to me that KC’s a lot closer to being fundamentally sound (we’ll see how they measure up against Oakland and Denver D) than I thought. Ripping Pioli for not being more aggressive on the OL was maybe over the top. I still wish he’d done more, and done it with that 2nd-rounder for Cassel, for starters. McCluster was another 2nd-rounder that could’ve done some real good up front, in my view. But McCluster was instrumental in some of those early wins in 2010, because they were a bit short on playmakers at the time.
would of ≠ would've
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