Kansas City Chiefs vs Packers: Breaking Down The O-Line Film
by Bewsaf on Dec 19, 2011 10:01 AM CST
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Week 15
The Kansas City Chiefs beat the Green Bay Packers at Arrowhead Stadium this Sunday, 19-14. The Chiefs move to 6-8 on the season as the Packers drop to 13-1.
It was a nice time for the offensive line to come around in pass protection. The past couple of games the line had not graded out very well...and it looked as though there might not be a light at the end of the tunnel. But there was a light...he's called Kyle Orton.
First, the line played better this week. Second, Kyle Orton got the ball out on time, didn't panic after 3 seconds had gone by, and appeared to be able to check down through his progression. All of that helped the stagnant Chiefs offense.
Barry Richardson...yes, Barry Richardson...had a 91% run assignment grade and a 95% pass assignment grade. He did a fine job all night long. So, hats off to Barry for pulling out a good game against a 13-0 team.
Let's take a look at the grades for the Chiefs...
| Team Run Blocking |
Power Blocking |
Power Blocking Score |
2nd Level Blocks |
||||
| Did the lineman get the job done or not? These grades are good for understanding value for a team and not necessarily for comparing across teams. A game in the mid 80s to 90% is a decent score. |
How often did the offensive lineman dominate the block or how often did he get dominated? These scores are good for comparing across teams and finding the most dominant lineman in the league. |
Anything over zero is a good score. The more over zero the more the lineman dominated the defender. Each lineman is scored a minus for being dominated, a zero for a draw, or a plus for dominating the defender. |
The number of successes over failures for the lineman when blocking linebackers and safeties on the second level. The lineman must be athletic to accomplish a high second level score. |
Run Blocking Grades
| Percent |
Grade Bar |
Power |
Pull |
2/Level |
|||||||||||
| Grade |  |
Blocking |
Blocks |
Blocks |
|||||||||||
|
Albert |
75% |
 |
+1 |
0 |
+2 |
||||||||||
| Lilja |
70% |
|
0 |
+2 |
-3 |
||||||||||
| Wiegmann |
70% |
|
-3 |
0 |
0 |
||||||||||
| Asamoah |
83% |
 |
0 |
+5 |
0 |
||||||||||
| Richardson |
91% |
 |
+1 |
0 |
0 |
||||||||||
Run Blocking Notes:
- At 3:30 in the 1st quarter, Ryan Lilja has a nice block to the left of the formation and takes his defender down the field. We like the motor, Ryan. You can see him in the pic, below. He is continuing to drive his defender (#96) down the field.
- At :59 in the 1st quarter, Ryan Lilja and Branden Albert get some movement on a run double. It is refreshing to see that out of the Chiefs. Getting movement is something Kansas City needs more of, in games. You can see them in the pic, below. They are part of the line surge around the 25 yard line.
***From Chiefs game on FOX
- If you would like to see just where the Chiefs ran the ball and which receivers they targeted in each zone...then go here.
- At 11:02 in the 3rd quarter, you can see how aggressive the Packers are on the run. They actually are very similar to the Bears, who are in their same division. They attack the run with aggressive play and sometimes run blitzes. You can see the Packer's middle backers charging hard in the pic, below.
***From Chiefs game on FOX
- If you would like to see how the Chiefs linemen have done over the past games, then look here.
- Nice pull block by Jon Asamoah on the touchdown run at 4:57 in the 4th quarter.
| Team Pass Blocking |
Passing Power Blocking |
Pressures | Combo Help |
||||
| Did the lineman get the job done or not? These grades are good for understanding value for a team and not necessarily for comparing across teams. A game in the 90% is a good score for pass blocking. |
How often did the offensive lineman dominate the block or how often did he get dominated? Each lineman is scored a minus for being dominated, a zero for a draw, or a plus for dominating the block. | How often did the offensive lineman give up pressure on the quarterback? Every once and a while a lineman can do his job but give up pressure on the QB. This stat will help glean more info from the line grades. |
How often did the offensive coordinator provide help for a tough defender or a struggling lineman. Yea, two lineman ended up with the same grade...but how much help did either of them get? |
Pass Blocking Grades
| Percent |
Grade Bar |
Power |
Pressures |
Sacks |
Combo |
|||||||||||
| Grade | |
Blocking |
Allowed |
Allowed |
Help |
|||||||||||
| Albert |
87% |
|
+1 |
2 |
0 |
5 |
||||||||||
| Lilja |
93% |
|
0 |
0 |
0 |
8 |
||||||||||
| Wiegmann |
93% |
|
-1 | 0 |
0 |
10 |
||||||||||
| Asamoah |
95% |
|
0 |
0 |
0 |
10 |
||||||||||
| Richardson |
95% |
|
+1 |
0 |
0 |
3 |
||||||||||
Pass Blocking Notes:
- A big change in the Kansas City Chiefs offensive performance....At 13:44 in the 1st, the quarterback sees an early blitz and makes the proper throw. That is something Chief fans have not seen for a while. Even Matt Cassel was having problems picking up the blitzes at times and getting the throw out quickly. You can see Orton, below.
***From Chiefs game on CBS
- All the offensive lineman did a good job against the Packers. Branden Albert had a couple of plays in which he got beat, but overall, nice job.
- Kyle Orton should take the offensive line out to eat for that performance.
- As always, the tight ends and backs grades are at Pro Football Spotlight. Click the button, below.
Check out this article! (click it)
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 19, 2011 10:03 AM CST reply actions
Haha, Rac'd.
"[Jamaal Charles] probably fights crime in his spare time while inhaling carbon emissions, exhaling oxygen, and crapping oil. That’s how awesome he is. Not just good for the Chiefs, but America."
- MNchiefsfan
No, Rac'd is what happened to the Packers' offense yesterday.
“On Sunday, the Chiefs Rac’d the Packers, holding them under 24 points for the first time all season.”
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 19, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
Greened! :-)
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
by WorL4Chiefs on Dec 19, 2011 11:46 PM CST up reply actions
Those shall be used in Kalo's breakdowns.. if there ever are anymore
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 20, 2011 5:19 AM CST up reply actions
Was BRich just able to out muscle Bloodline?
Overall it was a great showing by the Oline
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 19, 2011 10:05 AM CST reply actions
Amen.
Kyle Orton got the ball out on time, didn’t panic after 3 seconds had gone by, and appeared to be able to check down through his progression.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Amen
When you fail to prepare, you prepare to fail.
Jamaal above all. #25 ftw.
CHIEFS WILL!
by NJChieffan16 on Dec 19, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
That is what happens...
When a QB can actually sell a screen pass….all the sudden the defense is scared to blitz…
Arrowhead pride addict
by groundedchevy on Dec 19, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I hope people start to see the correlation between good QB play and good O-line play.
We’d probably be trashing the o-line’s play if Cassel was in yesterday.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 19, 2011 12:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
As for me, I'd see the unforced errors and happy feet and STILL blame it on not trusting the OL.
Cassel’s still a big, physical QB who can run it when things get tough. But understanding when (and where) to slide to just buy time, i.e., pocket awareness, still seems to be something he’s learning, and he built some bad habits in ’09 and ’10 that reinforced some of the tentativeness they were trying to un-teach him in New England.
would of ≠ would've
Bew's first pass blocking note says it all for me.
My friend and I were talking about this exact throw Orton made on our first drive at the 13:44 mark. A guy was coming unblocked off the edge and Orton stood there and delivered a perfect pass to Breaston for the first down. Cassel would’ve either folded and taken the sack or tucked the ball and started running and taken a big loss.
This is the big difference between a below average QB and an average QB. Imagine if we had a great one.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 19, 2011 1:14 PM CST up reply actions
And there was another throw to Copper going against Woodson on the right side, too.
Cassel’s made similar passes, but not with nearly the same success percentage.
But a QB who can find the hot route under pressure is a real step up.
GB was still determined not to be beaten by the run game, and willing to single up to accomplish it. For the first time in eons, KC had a QB who knew how to capitalize and was skilled enough to capitalize.
I still don’t want to see a whole lot of those passes having to be made by Orton. That one sent some pain signals through his right hand, and it’s the kind of throw that results in QB injuries.
would of ≠ would've
Cassel’s made similar passes, but not with nearly the same success percentage.
With passes like this we see the importance of just a half second. Orton’s a half second faster at making reads and getting the throw out.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
It does seem like a more laborious process for Cassel.
Just overall execution, but especially the touch and timing on those screens. NOT just a quick, gimmicky bubble screen, but one that actually develops.
would of ≠ would've
I'm very, very excited for the game on Saturday
If Orton plays well again and moves our offense, I may have no choice but to do a post discussing how a potent offense needs a good QB, not an elite one, and our options regarding that route…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Thing is, by the time you get that supporting cast and decent QB,
folks start believing your QB is elite, unless his name is Dilfer (who was underestimated, imo).
would of ≠ would've
This is what I have been saying.
My biggest problem with Cassel is his pocket awareness. His pocket awareness makes the line look worse than it is. Sometimes Cassel could sidestep and avoid pressure, but he doesn’t then it looks like the whole line collapsed. That takes away from the time he should be using to through his progressions or jus make a play in general.
"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite
It's always been 6 of one, half-a-dozen of the other.
But seeing a QB who can sidestep the heat and still make very good throws does show Cassel up.
This was still the 1st season (with no offseason) with some real quality and some quality depth at WR. It took some time to gel, and it took a month-and-a-half to even get Baldwin on the field.
Cassel might’ve done some of the same things as Orton did, because that defense really wasn’t very good, Sunday. But Orton certainly looked more crisp and decisive. He doesn’t have the same alarm clock in his head that Cassel has, and that might not be so good against the Raiders.
That said, the Raiders have been able to blitz without fear, ever since Cassel’s been here. Orton is likely going to be better at finding the open man in that situation, and that changes the landscape of a game.
would of ≠ would've
great post - rec'd
Here’s hoping this becomes the norm for both the OL and Orton.
O-Line looked good, although they got some help
Orton gets the ball out faster than anybody we’ve had in years, and all the play action we were running takes some of the pressure off pass protection. I don’t say that to detract from their performance, but to say this: when they’re not having to block for 8 years on every pass play to give Cassel time to throw the ball, they can lock down late in the game and give Orton all the time he needs on a slower-developing play. Love it.
We all understand what being a Mizzou fan is like. That’s no excuse for being a douche.
orton is just a blessing so far i could not imagine this guy
With charles in the backfield and tony m as tight end in the game. It would just be unreal
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Dec 19, 2011 10:33 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Enjoy it as I always enjoy these posts.
Always better and a lot more fun to analyze and talk about a Chiefs win than a Chiefs loss.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 19, 2011 10:37 AM CST reply actions
I'd like to see what he brings to the game
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 19, 2011 11:31 AM CST up reply actions
Yup.
Short-term, I’m easing up on Pioli a little bit. We’ll see how KC does in these last two games. GB hasn’t been stopping people on D this year as much as they’ve been performing miracles with skill players on offense and out-scoring all comers. KC never let it get out of reach, which is the source of the turnovers that’ve been keeping GB on top.
would of ≠ would've
fab-o as always, Bews!
hella job by BRich both Run and Pass blocking, wow! and entire line was great on Pass Blocking scores, makes HUGE difference (as does a QB who goes thru progressions and doesn’t panic
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I'm curious how the next couple games play out
Were Cassel and Palko making our line look THAT much worse than they are? Or was yesterday an anamoly? Something in between?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Dec 19, 2011 12:15 PM CST up reply actions
Like AZ in '08, they're good ENOUGH run-blocking, and stubborn enough about running, that the play fake is always there.
The difference appears to be in a QB who at LEAST finds the single-covered guy and delivers a good throw. That was a big part of Copper being targeted early. GB singled him, and whether it was Woodson or that other guy, the ball went to the singled-up WR. The guys in the booth said KC was targeting the other CB, but Copper made a nice catch-and-run against Woodson for a 1st down on the first series.
It wasn’t like KC was dialing-up the screens all the time, so much as taking them, when the defense was vulnerable.
would of ≠ would've
yup, huge difference between Cassel and Orton right there ... ie, taking what they give you instead of trying to force your way to a miracle
Orton looked at 2, 3 whatever options every time … what did have, 10 different people with a reception? Cassel would have no idea he had that many different possible targets in a month, much less a game
MN raised the question “is it Cassel/Palko? is it the OLine was suddenly way better? was it both?” I think the answer is “yes” … take it anyway you want, but Orton was clearly superior to anything I’ve seen from Cassel in 2-1/2 years
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I've seen Cassel have good games, like the one against Seattle last year,
where he trusted his O-Line and they rewarded his trust.
Cassel is much more tentative with his throws and much more dependent on getting his feet just right. I’ve seen him throw the ball quite a distance, but only when he gets the proper wind-up and you throw off that wind-up and the ball’s gonna sail on him. Orton “flipped” the ball a number of times, but it still got there with good velocity and touch.
But we saw KC play inspired against a below-average between-the-20s defense. Orton will get his chance this Saturday against Richard Seymour and company. They’ve been disrespecting Cassel for two-and-a-half seasons, now. No disrespect to Haley, but I get the distinct impression it will be clear in everybody’s mind what they want to do to the Raiders, and how they want to do it.
would of ≠ would've
I'm happy with the grades
but let’s be real….in goaline short yardage we were dominated. In short yardage, when we wanted to run, and they new we were running…we failed multiple times and it turned 28 points into 9. It was nice we were able to run out the game….but the problems in the redzone show how much needs to be improved on the OL. Even when they play well, they couldn’t dominate and get us TDs.
The run blocking grades are not good above.
So I guess that was pretty much covered.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
No they weren't good
and the grades were shown, but not really talked about. I think most people will look a this game as a vindication for Albert and proof that B Rich can play. I wanted Gaither to play LT and when he was cuz all I heard on this board was Albert was better, Albert is one of the best run blocking LTs in the NFL, Albert is top 10 pass effeciency blocking (whatever that is)….and then Gaither goes on to start at LT in SD and suddenly their OL can handle the Ravens. I was so looking forward to a OL next year of Gaither/Albert/Hudson/Asamoah/Any RT other then B Rich. Obviously Hudson will be there…but until the LT, LG, and RT are upgraded…we won’t be able to play with the big boys on a consistant level.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 11:54 AM CST up reply actions
I'm with you.
Especially with respect to Gaither. He never got a fair shot in KC. One of Haley’s failures.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Yeah,
you know it worked with Bowe and DJ…but I think it was a big mistake to cut Gaither.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:03 PM CST up reply actions
I doubt Haley had much to do with the decision to cut Gaither...
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 19, 2011 12:19 PM CST up reply actions
He had a lot to do with the decision to bury him on the bench.
By the time he was cut, there was little reason to keep him around.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Wonder how much
Muir did. Obviously he is the last person that should be evaluating the explosiveness of a player.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
Well, Muir is another one of Haley's failures.
So either way.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
I agree
I don’t blame Haley for finding somebody in the organization due to the lockout. I wonder if Haley wanted to call plays, Pioli wanted an OC…so he picked Muir but then had to but in. Things were so much smoother with only Muir and Zorn. Plays got in so much quicker. I read an article at the beginning of the year that said Haley knew he was going to be out at the end of the year and was going to do things his way. That article looks pretty accurate.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:31 PM CST up reply actions
By the way
did you notice STudie not being on the field and Sheff actually get more reps…another difference between Haley and Remeo.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, I was confused who Sheffild was in for.
Looked like for Houston, then he was on the other side then he seemed in the middle for Belcher. Wonder whats up about that?
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
He played for Belcher
as a spy for Rodgers on passing downs.
That's pretty much where I saw him and what it looked like he might be doing.
It’s almost exactly what I WANTED to see him doing (that and run-stuffing) from SILB, since I first read his scouting report and saw his nose for the ball.
I think his extra heft allowed RAC to show one thing to Rodgers and then have an extra d-lineman crashing the line from that ILB area, pre-snap.
I didn’t much care for what RAC did late in the game, up two scores, but with a first down or two from the offense, they held on for the win. And they did do a good job of keeping GB from stopping the clock, by denying the sidelines. But I thought they sent only 3 or 4 guys about 3 or 4 more times than I would’ve liked.
As for Haley having say on Studie’s snaps, I’d say that’s very limited. Houston had already taken most of Studie’s snaps on regular D. I don’t know how much MORE of Sheffield we’re going to see, although it’s encouraging to see more of him in at least one of the late-2011 games, and for him to be a part of what was a pretty unprecedented defensive effort against the Packers. But they’ve been rolling with injuries all season long, and Jennings and Bulaga may have been the last straw.
I think Jennings is coming back, and judging by the way Bulaga was standing around during the game, they were less interested in beating a team like the Chiefs, who REALLY WANTED TO WIN FOR RAC, than they were in having Bulaga in-harness in January and February. That thinking can only take me so far, though, since they didn’t yank Rodgers.
would of ≠ would've
Gaither was mostly blocking down on the DE/DT, doubling with the LG, from what I saw.
They didn’t rely on him to do much in the way of single-blocking, and used a TE/FB for the most part against the outside pass rusher.
would of ≠ would've
He wasn't as good a LT as Albert.
Even so, I’d’ve tried some other combinations.
The one thing RAC did to really change the routine was putting the lifting AFTER the practice. This sounds like something coming from a former trench player that generated some real buy-in from our big men.
We’ll see if the apparent attitude change lasts for any length of time. They did seem like they really wanted to win for RAC, and trusted themselves and each other, more. Haley did a phenomenal job of keeping his big men healthy, when other teams (like GB) are seeing their big men dropping like flies. Even Gaither’s return to at least decent form occurred in KC.
would of ≠ would've
Wasn't as good
His best year was much better….maybe not as healthy….but Gaither is a better LT then Albert.
read earlier more classroom/film/study time as well ...
The one thing RAC did to really change the routine was putting the lifting AFTER the practice.
more film time and less on-field or in weight room? (gasp) our team will get SOFT like with Herm Edwards!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I think the early film study and the post-practice re-hash likely meant the time on the field
was better-spent. We’ll see if there’s any perception of getting lax on the conditioning end. At this point of the season, getting enough food and rest can be a higher priority. I sometimes wonder if Hali might play even better on the field, by toning it DOWN a little bit on the pre-game routine, which sounds pretty extreme.
would of ≠ would've
Thomas Jones had a 3.2 ypc average yesterday.
The o-line must have been doing something right.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 19, 2011 12:14 PM CST up reply actions
Ha ha
Too bad he couldn’t get one yard on 4th and 1.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
Possibly
Really shows how much Moeaki and JC make a difference. They are in the endzone on those screen passes.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah. Sadly I was actually wanting Jones in there for that run. Battle is too slow
hitting the holes and too big to fit through them in those situations.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 19, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
I am glad you brought Gaither up.
I admit that it is looking like we should have held on to Gaither, but don’t forget what the knock on Gaither was. The original knock was his health. Remember he was passed over by other teams before we picked him up. The Chargers had no choice but to play him. Time is the factor to keep your eye on. He may be out very soon due to injury if the reports on him were correct. I do wish him well as far as his health goes though.
"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite
I believe pass plays from short and goal were more of a problem than rushing plays.
"An atheist is a man who watches a Notre Dame - Southern Methodist University game and doesn't care who wins." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
by electriclight on Dec 19, 2011 11:51 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah,
timing was off a bit with a new QB…but we didn’t run block well. How many times did we try and get yards running in the redzone and came short? That was our problem last year as well, so it has been a long term problem with this OL.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 11:55 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah this didn't make a lot of sense to me.
We were throwing timing passes with a QB who has little rapport with his receivers.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 19, 2011 12:16 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
I thought some fades to Baldwin or Bowe. One thing I did like was Orton using his backs and TEs which helped open it up for our WRs.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:18 PM CST up reply actions
Battle ran it to the 1 on 1st and goal, IIRC.
I think they COULD get more movement up front, by coming across as more determined to punch it up the gut. I thought they were hard enough to stop up the gut that they could’ve walked one in on that left side.
What pissed me off about the red zone was they burned a time out and let the defense re-set themselves. They should have a killer play or three up their sleeves for those situations and quick-snap it while the defense is struggling to re-array themselves after a disheartening play against them. This is something I’ve wanted to see from Haley’s offenses, and even goes back to Vermeil’s offenses, with Saunders. It’s like the KC offense is more discombobulated by the successful play than their opponent.
It’s something that’s fairly widespread in the NFL, and something you could give yourself an easy edge by NOT being confused after you actually did something right. There ought to be a rule that you leave the same guys on the field (or have SPECIFIC personnel changes dialed-up just-in-case for those situations) and run another play RIGHT AWAY against a D that’s demoralized and a little panicky.
would of ≠ would've
Broadcasters talked as if our run game was working and setting up the Play Action.
Our yards /carry were actually a little down from season average. Seems like we ran just enough but key was sequence of plays keeping PAckers off balance. Also seemed that Orton has qicker release or at least decides were to go faster than Cassel did.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
The only real difference I saw was the execution level in the playaction PASSES those runs are supposed to set up.
With the passing to balance the running, the YPC on the ground didn’t matter much. Most defenses are going to cheat up to stop the run, first, because they don’t respect the KC passing game. Suddenly, Orton comes in and the passing game is respectable. Puts a whole ‘nother level of responsibility onto the opposing defenses. You can’t just blitz a few times, and then drop back in coverage and pick off the panicky pass against your 3- and 4-man pass rush. Not anymore. KC now has a QB who can find the open man and complete passes to that man.
would of ≠ would've
Now we need to find out if he's average or above average
Because I believe you can contend with an above average QB with our weapons and defense. Only thing we’d need to add is an O-line upgrade and a better “thumper” at SILB
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I'm always in favor of beefing up the OL.
I think the way they’ve gone about is has been to maximize the continuity, while making forward progress. When Cassel was starting, I wailed about their OL strategy being “half-measures.” Now I see them just continuing to add a talented player to the trenches, year in and year out. I think the bias needs to be for the higher pick, until they’re done with their “build-up.”
I think the ILB Thumper is already in-house, most likely. I’m always on the lookout for a shutdown corner, myself.
would of ≠ would've
We have two shutdown corners
And I’d love to know who that thumper is, Belcher has seen his play time decrease since Chicago
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Dec 20, 2011 7:59 PM CST up reply actions
Sheffield or Studie look like prime candidates.
Gabe Miller has potential in that regard. I’m just not in a hurry to go rich there, which is why I’m always putting the brakes on such talk. ILB in the 3-4 is a brains, stout, and durability thing, to me. The SILB has a built-in advantage in terms of the ground he has to cover. Sound decision making and consistency are bigger to me.
Miller and Sheffield scouted to me like those kinds of players, and Miller has some athletic up-side to go with. I’m very much a “throw ’tweeners at OLB and SILB and see what sticks” kind of guy. I’m more likely to reach for an OLB, and let the system picks and coaching reveal a good solution at SILB.
Everything I’ve seen in coverage that I didn’t like from Belcher (or Mays) was as much about using the SILB the wrong way. Sure, drop him on the changeup, but you have to have the offense on their heels before pitching that changeup. I want my nickel to be TOUGH to run against, and any time I’m thinking about using that SILB in coverage, I’m more likely to stick a safety in his place.
would of ≠ would've
Wasn't Sheff doing some ILB work Sunday?
Could be something to keep an eye on
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I saw him, and it looked like that was where he was lining-up.
Saw him crash the line a few times, but am relying on 3rd parties telling me just what he was actually doing. Worth watching again.
Seemed like good things happened with groupings containing those younger guys.
While I’m thinking about it, Rodgers’ TD was against a 3-man rush, with Dorsey in the middle and Bailey on the left side. Bailey went to his knees after trying the inside move, and Dorsey was the closest one to try and contain the scramble. Not the best play for Bailey.
would of ≠ would've
Yes!
LT: My prediction for first round draft pick Jon Martin/RIley Reiff.
LG: Branden Albert. He’s possibly a Pro Bowl tackle, but his potential at guard is astounding.
C: Rodney Hudson. Young, physical and our only option.
RG: Jon Asamoah. Really picked up where Brian Waters left off.
RT: Maybe Jon Martin or Riley Reiff if KC picks up an ok left tackle.
by NigerianNightmare on Dec 21, 2011 8:35 AM CST up reply actions
Big enough to stay strong on the goalline, athletic enough for Jamaal's speed.
Albert is probably the best O-lineman in space, if he’s a guard he’ll get the opportunity so much more. Jon is great in space, too.
We actually have the bulk to use Jackie, and the speed and agility to use Jamaal.
by NigerianNightmare on Dec 21, 2011 8:37 AM CST up reply actions
I see almost no way to get 2 starting tackles in 1 off season
Better would be getting a Guard like Grubbs in FA or a C like Wells and then get a Tackle in the draft, Martin/Reiff/Sanders
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 21, 2011 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
agreed
NO way they go into 2012 with 2 new tackles.
and, I really DON’T think they need to.
get a new RT, and a LG/C that could possibly start, or sit behind Lilja for a year.
Don’t fix what ain’t broke
Grubbs and an OT would be nice IMO
Depends which OT is there in the first that could be an upgrade to Albert at LT
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 21, 2011 4:47 PM CST up reply actions
Does Grubbs really fit the ZBS?
You keep pushing him but I don’t think he’s the greatest fit, plus I don’t think he’d leave Baltimore…
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Dec 21, 2011 5:06 PM CST up reply actions
I'm willing to reach a little, for NFL-readiness.
But then I’m willing to overpay for OL, just to get the best. I’ll save money on the back end by developing and trading-off an unending succession of quality, durable, well-schooled RBs, all with 4+ YPC. Be a little quicker to pay ‘em $1 million and a little slower to pay ’em $10 million, and keep the mutant Thomas Jones’s, who are all-around decent, and durable.
That’s something I’ve struggled to understand in this league: the number of o-backfield players (QB and RB alike), who will flat-out take the money, even when they know the team needs to steal a Logan Mankins from somebody with a deal he cannot refuse. You have a team that can withstand the high-dollar deal your stud G wants, and the QBs and RBs get to have more fun playing the game the way it ought to be played, and for extra years, because the big guys are their friends.
would of ≠ would've
Oh money is absolutely no issue with me
Stuff those pigs with plenty of bacon I say.
Its just I don’t want to fit a square peg in a round hole.
But looking at his scouting report out of college, it states he was pretty athletic(even played some Tight End) so maybe I’m just blowing air out of my ass.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Dec 21, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
I actually havn't meanted Grubbs too many times
He can move in space, I don’t really believe he has had to in Balt that many times though, best part is Grubbs can play almost anywhere along the line if there is an injury.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 22, 2011 5:34 AM CST up reply actions
I would like to see this too.
However, i’m pretty sure the D would just call a timeout anyways if they weren’t ready. It would be the same end result, but we could get them to burn a timeout at least.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 19, 2011 2:20 PM CST up reply actions
That mostly stems from Weigmann and Lilja, not Albert and B-Rich
Both of them seem fine in those situations. It’s the middle of the line that gets overwhelmed.
Take out Weigmann and insert Hudson and see if that changes. I like Weigmann a lot, but he’s been our weakest link on the O-line this year.
All that said, Gaither clearly should be playing one of our T positions.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Dec 19, 2011 12:17 PM CST up reply actions
I agree
Lilja and Weigs should not be back. I just like Albert in that LG position. He’s bigger and stronger, plus he is quick enough to pull could really open up some holes for our backs. I consider him an average LT, so I don’t think we lose too much replacing him and he would be an instant improvement at LG. As for B Rich….he just gets beat too many times to even be in this discussion as a future starting OT.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 19, 2011 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
To replace Albert at LT means getting into the cream of the draft class and hoping for the best.
That might be in the cards for 2013 draft, which has more quality-in-depth from what folks are saying.
I’d be OK with top G and RT prospects in this next draft. To really “go after” Albert, I think we’re talking trade-up or taking some real risks. If the risk is a guy who has a mean streak for playing G/RT and a SHOT at pushing Albert, that’d be OK. But there’s really only going to be one, maybe two guys, in this next draft that would really push Albert, and rooting for RAC to get the next two wins, KC would have to trade up to get ‘em, and it’d be a year early for this team to be doing any kind of trade other than trade-down.
would of ≠ would've
It all depends how much you value Albert
I don’t…I think he’s average. There are only 2 or 3 OTs worth taking in the first based on their college production…however, there are some nice OTs that can be had in the 2nd or 3rd round. Albert has never had any real competition in his time in KC…I’m not counting Gaither. He was a LG in college who couldn’t beat out Eugene Monroe…so that might tell you something about him pushing himself due to competition. The NFL proected him at LT due to his size, but not because of his play. I’ll be interested to see what happens with a new coach, and off season to make any changes.
I'm just dubious about 2nd- and 3rd-round OTs being in that elite class.
Still, I always see OLs in the 2nd and 3rd that look like instant upgrade at RT and could maybe push for LT. And I don’t see LT as the glaring weakness in the KC O-Line, though. And my guess is you can get some upgrade at either LG, C, RT with an almost sure-thing pick in the 2nd or 3rd.
That said, if a no-miss OT were in reach, for instance still being on the board 2 or 3 picks ahead of KC’s pick, trading up a few spots might be tempting, because yes, I believe you could easily move Albert to LG and have a VERY high-quality backup LT, there, and probably a dominant duo on the left side. . Albert’s held down LT for years, now, and might not give up that spot easily. If the new guy can play LG as well as Albert, I could live with that, too.
would of ≠ would've
Even though he said different when the Chiefs signed him.
And was the backup at RT.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
you say lot of things when you don't have a job
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 1:32 PM CST up reply actions
He did have a job.
Like I said, he was the backup RT. Can you point to an instance during his time in KC where he said he wouldn’t play RT, or refused to play it or anything like that?
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Chiefs flat-out released him, when he was a false start waiting to happen when asked to do Albert's job.
And it doesn’t look like San Diego is trusting him to guard the blind side single-handed, either.
would of ≠ would've
False start waiting to happen?
He came off the bench and got a penalty….didn’t Albert have one in a critical situation yesterday….don’t give me that. Albert is like Dorsey…you either love him or you don’t. The NFL is about moving up or moving on….teams that accept average players remain average. I don’t know what SD is doing, but all I know is since Gaither arrived, Rivers has had time to find his WRs and they have won….and that’s with all their other injuries on the OL.
Richardson is a master at making critical penalties.
Not to mention pushing coaches on the sidelines. And yet, he continued to get all kinds of love from Haley.
"This was about the most fun as I’ve had on the football field." - Kyle Orton
Well I'm glad we dumped before the Greenbay game, Richardson was terrible.
by Bigcherokeechief on Dec 19, 2011 2:29 PM CST up reply actions
oh, he was HORRIBLE yesterday, shocked we had any positive yardage at all the whole game ...
… BRish and Albert both, atrocious! I know, huh!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I think BRich is 2nd highest penalized. Pope is 1st.
Pope must have highest penalty per play than anyone in NFL.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Still, AZDiamond75: I got a sense that that false start was a "last straw" for Gaither.
Not that we choose our investment strategy on my impressions…
would of ≠ would've
Question
I not really familiar with line play too much, is it possible for us to move albert to LG and draft Reiff for our LT. Riley Reiff looks like such a physical and fundamentally sound LT,if this move was possible I think we should draft the guy.
Reiff
is more of a RT, and will probably be gone when we draft. There are only 2 top LT in this draft in Martin and Kahli…there is a guy out of FSU named Sanders I really like as a LT and would be there at the end of the first, early second round….I see Pioli trading back to get him and picking up an extra pick…but to answer your question…yes it is. Albert played LG in college cuz he could not beat out Eugene Monroe, the LT in Jacksonville. In his time at Virgina, he only played 2 games at LT.
Hmm you sure Reiff cant play LT?
Ive watched all of Iowas game this year and alot of tape on him last year, and he manhandles his assignments with great physicality and seems to have great intelligence of how he should be protecting the QB.
And
I haven’t watched martin too much, but I did notice that he just got burnt up against USC this year. He got beat by Perry over and over again and Perry made him look too weak and too slow. What type of LT is Martin and why is he better than Reiff?
And do you think
Albert could also play RT instead of LT since he’s a much better run blocking lineman?
I guess that's where you and I part ways, then AZDiamond.
If I’m not in the elite LT category, I’m not wasting a 1st-round OT pick on anything less, unless the guy’s at least a beast at RT. If fyou think your Martin guy is at least good enough to be a clear upgrade at RT, then I’m OK with it. But not if you’re counting on him playing LT, and he doesn’t fit anywhere else, I’m not really interested.
would of ≠ would've
Agreed
I don’t think you can justify spending a 1st rd pick on a RT. At that point you have just reached and then missed out on talent at another position.
I was totally OK with the Brian Bulaga pick, at around #21 or #22.
What I don’t like seeing is a LT pick too late to be everything you really want from LT.
To me, draft position is far less important than getting somebody GOOD. Let others worry about micromanaging the whole reach/not-reach thing. The fact is, if that reach plays really well for you for 10 years, it was a steal, be he G/C/T. It’s just critical that you get it RIGHT.
Asamoah and Hudson were solid picks. Pioli still hasn’t taken his big shot at drafting a top OT. I don’t want to settle for a 3rd-round OT and then be wringing my hands for the next 4 years, because we took 2nd-shelf. The guys on the outside are just too critical. Winning 1-on-1s week in and week out is just too critical.
ZBS/EP, I don’t care. But I also want physical domination in the middle. The guy doesn’t have to be a real twinkle-toes, AFAIC, as long as he can hold up 1-on-1 against the best bull-rushers. That ZBS stuff and helping-out inside goes right out the window on the blitz up the middle. You BETTER be able to stuff that DT’s push, when your help switches to pick up the blitz and/or the twisting DE. Besides, I want to get forward push as an every-down thing, requiring defenses to commit a LB to helping out in the middle all day long.
It’s great to be able to run away from those fatties, and turn the power advantage on D to a maneuver disadvantage, but I’m really hoping Hudson will be the SMALL guy on the KC front, and the Chiefs will make those ugly 3-yard runs against perfect D a staple. Then see what will happen with the play-action.
would of ≠ would've
Red zone failures highlight the need
For some roadgraders in the middle. It would be ideal to be in the position of short yardage or goaline situations when everybody knows your just gonna play smashmouth football running up the middle.
Pioli has shown the attiude you’re talking about, Mills, in not caring about protocol of who to draft when (T-jax, Berry are prime examples). Tjax is developing, and Berry looks to be something special. I’m counting on the Chiefs knowing who they want at OT already, and then pulling the trigger and moving up and down accordingly to get their guy. Love to see him hit the homerun on an OT next draft.
Home run on OT. Not sure what that would feel like. (Searching brain for John Alt reels)
Hey. Did you notice that KC DID punch it in on the ground? In the middle of the 4th quarter, when Green Bay was still in it, KC was up one score, used Becht as a lead blocker on one good run, threw a nice completion to Becht down to the 5, Then it’s Hudson-eligible, Root, hog, or die, run it. That’s reminiscent of some Dallas Cowboys games, where you’d do everything right all day long and keep Emmitt in check, but then when you NEED the ball back, BOOM, Emmitt for 5 yards. Emmitt for 8 yards. Emmitt for 15 yards, and it dawns on you that you’re not going to GET the ball back.
People talk about RBs getting stronger, but it’s more about defenses getting weaker, and offenses dialing-in what they’re doing. I think the KC offense has cleared their head of some junk, judging by that game-clinching Jackie Battle run. Albert sets the edge, and takes a hunk out of the 1st enemy LB to the scene and KC has ’em outnumbered on the weak side. Becht cracks the back-side pursuit, while Asamoah pulls and McClain and he are out in front of #26 10 yards down the left side, by the time the secondary has rallied to the ball.
I’m optimistic about this current squad in the next two games, when it comes to Red Zone. I think getting Asamoah and Hudson on the field at the same time is very helpful in this regard. I hope to see more long SCORING plays, but I also want to see them just go BIG inside the 20, with maybe one of our big LBs or DLs (like Bailey, perhaps). Seriously, until red zone is fixed, I’m maybe experimenting with one of our big LBs at TE. Seems outside the box, but if Belichick did it with Vrabel, it has to be considered orthodox.
would of ≠ would've
Rec'd
Thanks for the quick post Bewsaf!
Run blocking, as usual…hoping for some off-season upgrades for sure, esp Wiegs & Lilja (echo…lots of us have been saying it for some time now)
Pass blocking – wow, what a change this game. Where the heck did that come from? Likely, better QB play. Question for me is…will it continue the next 2 games? Still could use a couple of upgrades…
But for today, I’m happy with yesterday’s outcome!
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
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