Introducing your 2011 Championship Kansas City Chiefs….

by CatChief on Dec 16, 2011 5:10 PM CST

Since playoff thoughts have not cluttered my mind of late, I have had time to ponder other great issues of the day, such as:

Could the Chiefs be in the position of the Packers if the Head Honchos had just made different decisions? Consider that the Packer team we see this Sunday has won the last Super Bowl and has been undefeated ever since. One more win and their fans will have gone an entire calendar year without seeing their team lose.

At first I tried to determine if the players made the coaching look good or was it the coaches who brought out the best in players with techniques, schemes and motivation. I promptly got a headache and quit that direction of thought. Instead, this post will keep to the basic question by asking: Could the current roster of starters for the Green Bay Packers have been accumulated by the management here in Kansas City. The short answer is yes.

The Packers starting units on Offense and Defense have been built mainly through the Draft with sixteen players drafted, five obtained by Free Agency and only one obtained by Trade. Every player on the current Packer list of drafted starters would have been available to the Chiefs on an earlier pick except two cases. In 2006 LB Hawk was taken #5 overall and the Chiefs got Hali at #20. In this case, I would say Hali is the better value. In 2009 the Packers had two 1st round picks (B. J. Raji was #9 and Clay Mathews was #26). The Chiefs could have had one but would have had to trade up for the other. The Chiefs got Tyson Jackson at #3 and Alex Magee at #67 that year.

(More after the jump)

If you consider that the Players acquired by the Packers through FA and Trade could just as easily have been obtained by the Chiefs then you must agree that the same roster that won last year’s Super Bowl and is undefeated this year could be wearing red, white and gold.

Here is how the Starting Packers were accumulated and which Chiefs Player would have been lost:

1999 WR D. Driver #213; WR L. Parker #108

2004 OC Wells #251; OT K. Sampson #231

2005 QB Aaron Rogers #24; LB D. Johnson #15

2006 LB AJ Hawk #5; LB T. Hali #20

2006 WR Jennings #52; S Bernard Pollard #54

2006 DE Wynn #182; WR Q, Lawrence #175

2006 CB C. Woodson FA; (woulda, coulda, shoulda)

2006 CB T. Williams FA; (woulda, coulda, shoulda)

2006 DE Pickett FA; (woulda, coulda, shoulda)

2007 LB Bishop #192; K Justin Medlock #160

2007 RB Grant Trade/Giants; (woulda, coulda, shoulda)

2008 TE Finley #91; TE Brad Cottam #76

2008 OG Sitton #135; WR W. Franklin #105

2009 NT B.J. Raji #9; DE Tyson Jackson #3

2009 LB Clay Mathews #26; (Trade required, Alex Magee taken #67)

2009 OG Lang #109; DB Donald Washington #102

2010 OT B. Bulaga #23; SS Erik Berry #5

2010 FS M. Burnett #71; OG Jon Asamoah #68

2010 OT Newhouse #169; FS Kendrick Lewis #136

2010 RB Starks #193; DE Cam Sheffield #142

2010 LB Walden FA; (woulda, coulda, shoulda)

2010 SS C. Peprah FA; (woulda, coulda, shoulda)

The Packers won the Super Bowl in a year they had over a dozen injuries to contributing players; one must consider the team as a complete roster of 53 (starters, backups and role players). Without going through the complete rosters of each team, I can note that, if we had obtained all of the Packer starters listed, we could still, at minimum, have also had the choice of acquiring the following current Chief players as well:

WR Baldwin, OC Hudson, SOLB Houston, DE Bailey, QB Stanzi, NT Powe, WR McCluster, DB Arenas, TE Moeaki, TE O’Connell, K Succop, DE Dorsey, OT Albert, CB Flowers, RB Charles, CB Carr, OT Richardson, WR Bowe, FA-WR Breaston and many more.

The following players would most likely have not been obtained in Free Agency:

NT Gregg, S Piscitelli, LB Siler, OT Gaither.

Many of the contributors on the Current Packer Roster may also have been available as well, like: K Mason Crosby and QB Matt Flynn.

I realize the grass seems greener on the other side. Sometimes it is. Sometimes Green is not just the color of envy; it is the other team’s jersey. Yes, we could have acquired the roster that now wears Championship Rings. The question that remains is: Would the results have been the same? Would the Management and staff in Kansas City at the time have produced a winner as they did in Green Bay?

Poll

If Scott Pioli had access to a "Way Back Machine" he would do the following:

Go back and copy exactly what the Packers did.

8 votes

Go back to 2005 only and tell Carl to draft Rogers.

30 votes

Stand pat. Cassel is better than Rogers and Jackson is better than Raji.

4 votes

Go back and not answer the phone when Clark calls.

3 votes

45 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.

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Comments

well done!

no clue what it all means, but very well researched :-)

ah hindsight, thy number is 20/20 … touche!

Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!

by upamtn on Dec 16, 2011 5:19 PM CST reply actions

Not sure myself.

It could mean that drafts are important because Green Bay has more starters from their drafts than the Chiefs while usually drafting much later.

It could mean that gems can be found late in a draft because the Packers have only six players starting that are from rounds #1 and #2.

It could mean that Free Agency is important because the Packers have dipped into it for successful starters more than the Chiefs.

It could mean that its all about coaching because the beginning talent level and rating of Chiefs aquisitions were as good or better than the Packers.

It could mean that its all about the QB because except for Cassel vs Rogers the overall talent pool seem pretty close. But ya can’t argue that Green Bay hasn’t done purdy fair fer not having a bunch of high picks on the roster.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Dec 16, 2011 6:09 PM CST up reply actions

I called Raji a much better pick than Jackson at the time...

…and am feeling awfully smug about that.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov

by burntorangehorn on Dec 16, 2011 5:28 PM CST reply actions

Pride cometh before the fall....

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 16, 2011 6:50 PM CST up reply actions

If you're seriously saying the TJ choice over Raji will be vindicated...

…then I’d like to know what you’ve ever seen that would give you cause to say so.

by burntorangehorn on Dec 17, 2011 7:03 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

Fuck Rodgers. Give me DJ.

by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 5:58 PM CST reply actions

I'll see your DJ and raise you a Clay Matthews

by upamtn on Dec 16, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions

Imagine

Hali from one side, Clay from the other..

by LJ ALL DAY 27 on Dec 17, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions

Houston looks pretty badass.

I’ll keep Hali, Houston, Belcher and DJ. They can have Mathews, Zombo, Hawk and Bishop.

Although I have to admit… swapping Bishop with Belcher would be badass. But overall our LBs are better.

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 17, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions

the need for

Better qb play for the chiefs is huge the team overall is a few pieces away from being really really good you get better qb play watch this team go from average to elite holes at ilb,offensive line can be addressed along with a piece on the defensive line all which can be got in one offseason but the thing holding back this team is the qb big time give the chiefs manning right now they’d be super bowl contenders give them a competent qb playoff team easily and with everyone coming back no reason the chiefs could dominate

by rickrock58 on Dec 16, 2011 6:03 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Pretty much agree that the QB is the main missing piece.

But we would be a lot closer if we did not need an upgrade on O-Line, upgrade at the 2nd TE spot and an upgraded depth in the defensive secondary. Without a QB upgrade, we will need even more.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Dec 16, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions

The difference maker is Rodgers.

Compare rosters:

OFFENSE:
OL:
Interestingly enough, I don’t think the GB OL is much better, if at all than the Chiefs OL. Both OLs have allowed 33 sacks, but the Packers pass more. On average the Pack allows a sack once every 13.5 pass attempts. The Chiefs allow one every 12.2 attempts.

Running the ball, both OLs are averaging 3.9 yards per carry.

Overall KC OL =< GB OL

RBs/FBs
Jamaal Charles >>>>>>> Ryan Grant. No need to explain.

McCluster/Battle = James Starks. Starks averages 4.4 ypc. Battle is at 4.0, Dex is at 4.5. Backup RBs are about even. Both Starks and Dex are good receiving threats.

McClain = Kuhn. Kuhn has a reputation as a good FB, and is averaging 4.7 yards per catch, and 2.7 yards per carry. McClain is at 5.6 per catch and 2.0 per run.

Overall KC RB/FB >>> GB RB/FB

WRs/TEs
I won’t list stats here, because let’s face it, Rodgers throwing to these guys makes a HUGE difference
Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Moeaki are pretty comparable to Driver, Jennings, Nelson and Finley. Slight edge goes to the Packers receivers, but again, the QB makes a huge difference here, IMO. Let Rodgers throw to our guys and see what happens.

Overall KC WR/TEs < GB WR/TEs

DEFENSE:

Front 7:
DE
Dorsey/Jackson > Wynn/Pickett. Both Dorsey and Jackson are top 15 in tackles among NFL D linemen. They’re both top 6 tacklers for 34 DEs. The progress Crennel has made with them is awesome. I’m seeing more fire from TJax. The LBs around them are playing well too, which is probably the best way to gauge their progress.

NT
Gregg < BJ Raji. Although statistically Gregg is having the better year, Raji has more upside. Raji would have been a great addition to the Chiefs, but I’m happy with the progress TJax is making. TJax has been more dominant on the DL this year than Raji.

Overall KC DL >= GB DL

LBs:

Hali > Mathews. Yeah I said it. So what? Hali has more sacks, tackles and forced fumbles. Don’t get me wrong, Mathews is a really good pass rusher. But Hali is better.

Derrick Johnson >= Desmond Bishop. Giving slight edge to DJ here, because he really has been one of the best ILBs this year. DJ has Bishop beat by 112 tackles to 97. Bishop has 5 sacks to DJs 2. Bishop is still a really, really good ILB.

Belcher > AJ Hawk. Oh snap. Yeah, I said that. It’s pretty true though. Belch has 74 tackles, Hawk has 60. Belcher is in his 2nd year as a starter and is progressing every game, every week, every year. He still hasn’t hit his ceiling. Hawk may have. At the very least you might be able to say Belch = Hawk, but nah. Belch needs to start getting some rep.

Houston > whoeverthehellisplayingforthem. I had to go look this one up, and I think it’s Zombo, but he doesn’t have a game started. Regardless, I think the entire city of KC is totally stoked over what we got with Houston. The guy has been a wrecking ball the last, what, 4 or 5 games?

Overall KC LBs >> GB LBs

DBs:

I’m tired of typing this comment. Time to wrap it up…
Flowers, Carr, Lewis, Berry > Woodson, Shields, Peprah and Burnett. When healthy the Chiefs have the best secondary in the NFL.

Overall KC DB > GB DB.

Conclusion:

KC OL =< GB OL
KC RB/FB >>> GB RB/FB
KC WR/TEs < GB WR/TEs
KC DL >= GB DL
KC LBs >> GB LBs
KC DB > GB DB

Maybe I’m crazy, But it looks to me like Rodgers makes all the difference between being 5-8 to being 13-0 and on their way to a second consecutive SB. Coaching plays a big part too… but looking at these rosters gives me hope.

I really believe we are an elite QB away from the promised land.

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 16, 2011 6:48 PM CST reply actions

well that

and them having a pathetically easy schedule, kinda like we did last year

by banshee_01 on Dec 16, 2011 7:01 PM CST up reply actions

ok, you lossa stuff here, and for me to go over EVERYTHING you have would take me forever, but ...

Maybe I’m crazy

I don’t there’s any “maybe” about it … seriously, you have the Chiefs as better at every single position except for QB and WR’s, and … to quote someone: “come on, man!” … now I’ll grant you that you’re right, the Pack has better QB and WR’s, but wow … everyplace else? we should be 9-5 with all the “talent” you think we have … even with Charles, Moeaki and Berry out … according to your comparisons, we’re LOADED

sorry, just not seeing it … good stuff thee, but just not seeing it at all

by upamtn on Dec 16, 2011 7:21 PM CST up reply actions

Well how do you disagree then?

And I did say Raji is better than Gregg.

Come on Ups, is Bishop better than Johnson? Is Mathews better than Hali? Is Ryan better than Charles, lol? Statistically our DEs have better stats than their DEs, AND our LBs Are making more tackles and impact.

Oh, and BTW, Berry, Charles and Moeaki were included in the assessment. Our healthy roster is overall better than theirs.

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 16, 2011 7:59 PM CST up reply actions

Totally agree

If Cassel was on the Packers and we had Rodgers, I bet we would have at the most 1 loss with a healthy roster.

by andrew33 on Dec 17, 2011 3:09 AM CST up reply actions

and they would

at the fewest have 4 losses with Cassel.

by andrew33 on Dec 17, 2011 3:09 AM CST up reply actions

The main difference between the starters on the rosters is the QBs.

The rest of the starters have only a slight edge favoring Geen Bay. But the biggest factor besides QB is depth and the quality of that dept. They have Jones, Jordy Nelson and Cobb as backups and depth at WR. They have had backup Flynn come in and play well at QB, They sustained 16 injuries last year and went on to win a super bowl.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Dec 17, 2011 8:48 AM CST up reply actions

I disagree.

When both teams are healthy, and minus Aaron Rodgers, GB’s offense has a slight edge on KC’s offense. KC has better RBs but GB has better WRs.

Defensively KC has the edge, at all three levels: DL, LB and DBs.

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 17, 2011 2:00 PM CST up reply actions

Doubt you'll read this... Buuuuuut...

KC was the better team on 12/18/11

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 18, 2011 10:43 PM CST up reply actions

Close..... If that elite QB also came with....

1) an upgraded OT.
2) another Interior Lineman.
3) another RB to compliment JC.
4) another TE to bookend with Moeaki.
5) a NT to replace Gregg.
6) better depth at most every position to sustain injuries mainly at Safety.

"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle

by CatChief on Dec 17, 2011 8:53 AM CST up reply actions

I'm not sure why you think GB is better on those things...

1) an upgraded OT.
2) another Interior Lineman.

This is true. But like I pointed out, GB’s OL isn’t much better than ours. GB has been notorious over the last few years about giving up a lot of sacks. Right now both KC and GB has given up 33 sacks. They both average 3.9 yards per run. These OLs are about the same in quality.

3) another RB to compliment JC.

Again, JC is better than Grant. McCluster and even Battle are comparable to Starks. KC’s run game is far better.

4) another TE to bookend with Moeaki.

Who is GB’s TE opposite Finley? Andrew Quarless, a 3 reception for 36 yard monster, lol. The Packers don’t have 2 great TEs.

5) a NT to replace Gregg.

Agreed, just because he’s old. But right now, as in THIS season, Gregg is statistically better than BJ Raji. And KC LBs are making more impact than GB’s. Right now, THIS season, I’d say that Gregg is the better NT. But the wheels can fall off on him fast, look at what happened to Weiggs. Gotta replace him.

6) better depth at most every position to sustain injuries mainly at Safety.

Agreed 100%. I was just comparing starting rosters. The Chiefs are only 3 years into a complete rebuild. We’ve just now got the starting roster fleshed out, except for at a couple of OL spots and of course QB. The depth should be coming over the next year or two.

"saints_chiefsfan1979 is a genius" - yes, I lost a bet.

by Tomahawk29 on Dec 17, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions