The Chiefs Need A QB, But Can They Get One?
by Wait and See on Dec 16, 2011 9:44 AM CST
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PrintThis article is an update to our QB draft analysis article from last week. The premise is the same:
An effective QB would improve the Chiefs more than an upgrade at any other position. There are four QBs expected to enter the upcoming draft that are considered good enough to start in their first season: Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, Robert Griffin, and Landry Jones. This article, which was co-written by a friend, examines the likelihood of one of those players being available at the Chiefs draft slot.
The same disclaimers also apply:
- The draft order will likely change. For example, how will the Chiefs perform under Crennel?
- The QBs have yet to be fully analyzed, which could insert new players into the mix or cause one of the top 4 to nosedive.
Needs Perspective: Teams Who Need a Starting QB
The updated top 15 draft order is below. We include strength of schedule below because it's the first tiebreaker. Carolina has beaten Washington head to head and they're in the same conference, so Washington should get to pick first.
| Pick # | Team | W | L | SOS |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Colts | 0 | 13 | 0.550 |
| 2 | Rams | 2 | 11 | 0.556 |
| 3 | Vikings | 2 | 11 | 0.574 |
| 4 | Washington | 4 | 9 | 0.479 |
| 5 | Panthers | 4 | 9 | 0.479 |
| 6 | Browns | 4 | 9 | 0.497 |
| 7 | Dolphins | 4 | 9 | 0.509 |
| 8 | Jaguars | 4 | 9 | 0.533 |
| 9 | Buccaneers | 4 | 9 | 0.550 |
| 10 | Chiefs | 5 | 8 | 0.479 |
| 11 | Eagles | 5 | 8 | 0.491 |
| 12 | Bills | 5 | 8 | 0.503 |
| 13 | Cardinals | 6 | 7 | 0.467 |
| 14 | Seahawks | 6 | 7 | 0.485 |
| 15 | Chargers | 6 | 7 | 0.509 |
Not much has changed from last week. The same four teams with a QB need and no recent expenditures on one remain ahead of us (Colts, Redskins, Browns and Dolphins). However, the Seahawks won last week and we lost, so we've increased separation on them from one draft slot to four.
Therefore, just like last week, assuming a static draft order and that teams that need QBs pick them, if the draft was tomorrow and the Chiefs stood pat, it's unlikely we'd get any of the top four. The two teams most likely to trade up, Seattle and Denver, remain the same. Tarvaris Jackson continues his mediocre play but can't claim the same lack of playmakers that could give Colt McCoy another year as the starter in Cleveland (and the Chiefs a shot at the fourth rated QB).
Historical Perspective: QBs Picked in the First Round
We also need to consider that losing teams generally have many needs in addition to QB. The table below shows how many QBs were taken in the top 9 (the picks prior to the projected Chiefs pick), and how many in the first round.
| Year | Top 9 | Top 32 |
|---|---|---|
| 2011 | 2 | 4 |
| 2010 | 1 | 2 |
| 2009 | 2 | 3 |
| 2008 | 1 | 2 |
| 2007 | 1 | 2 |
| 2006 | 1 | 3 |
| 2005 | 1 | 3 |
| 2004 | 2 | 4 |
| 2003 | 2 | 4 |
| 2002 | 1 | 3 |
Updated trends:
- On average, just over 1 QB is taken in the first 9 picks.
- In all of the past ten drafts, at least two of the top four QBs were available at pick 10.
- In six of the past ten drafts, at least three of the top four QBs were available at pick 10.
This situation is much improved from last week. Unless the QB situation around the league is worse than the typical situation of the past 10 years, this data indicates that the Chiefs have a good chance of having the opportunity to draft a highly touted QB in the first round. In fact, even in last year's draft, when four QBs were taken in the top 12, two of them were available at the tenth pick. In this year's draft that would translate to Landry Jones and either Robert Griffin III or Matt Barkley being available.
Will the Chiefs Take a QB?
Much of what we thought we knew is up in the air with the coaching change. First, if Stanzi gets to play, which seemed unlikely under Haley, and performs well, the Chiefs could be satisfied going into camp with Cassel, Stanzi, a later-round QB pick and/or Orton. Second, a highly touted coach like Cowher or Fisher could demand a high QB pick as a condition for taking the head coaching job. Third, there have been rumors that Pioli is comfortable with Cassel, which could cause him to skip picking a QB at all (I'd assume in that situation he'd try to finagle a huge trade back with a team that wanted a QB before Seattle or Buffalo get to pick).
Our current draft slot will almost definitely allow us to get a QB, but trying to decipher Pioli's intentions is almost impossible. So if you want us to take a QB, just take solace in the fact that historical trends make it look like we'll have a shot at a top-rated prospect.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I think we take a QB, just not in the first round, unless Scotty trades up. The QB I like is a
kid from Arkansas. Sorry don’t remember his name, and no idea when he is projected to go. I just liked seeing how he played and he showed a good and accurate arm. Remember Pioli is very good at disguising what he will do, the jury is still out on the QB’s we already have, except for Palko. I am liking the big OT from Ohio State as of now in the first round, but that is a situation that likely changes as the draft order and more info comes out, the closer we get to the actual draft.
I don't think Wilson will come out this year
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Pioli doesn't like one year starters anyway.
And I imagine even moreso at QB.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 16, 2011 9:55 AM CST up reply actions
I like Tyler Wilson alot and have said so. But,...
I am not sure he is much of an upgrade over Stanzi if any?
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Remember Pioli learned from Parcells
and Parcells downgrades QBs that only play 1 year as Wilson has…so I don’t see him taking him in the 2nd.
by AZDiamond75 on Dec 16, 2011 10:25 PM CST up reply actions
TYLER WILSON
two losses this year they came aganist LSU & Bamma. He also threw for 500yards twice no QB has done that this year… he is entering the draft….
by Chieffanndonkeyland on Dec 16, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
We would have a clipboard with his name on it.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
No way...
this is the most top heavy QB class in some time. He will stay and be he first one taken in 2013.
Good choice...
he’s used to getting smashed in the mouth on a regular basis.
Tyler Wilson is pretty damn good.
Doesn’t sound like he’ll cone out this year but I’d gladly take him this year or next.
by bamachief5558 on Dec 16, 2011 12:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I like Wilson as our 1st rd pick next year.
Maybe we Franchise Kyle Orton? Give him a year as the starter (obviously depending on how things go the last 3 games). This gives Stanzi an offseason to really learn the system (a major factor with a coaching change coming).
We also get to use this draft to plug some holes on that o-line (I think our 1st rd pick has to be OG or OT) as well as add some much needed depth. The Chiefs can also make a late round flier at a QB.
For this year’s draft, I like the kid out of Richmond. I’m going to start a new thread down below about why.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Dec 16, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
A few reasons to do it.
1. We have the money just sitting there.
2. This assumes that Bowe and Carr deals are done, so who else would we tag?
3. Gives us a big arm QB for at least one season. That alone makes our offense much more dangerous.
4. Gives us a high compensatory pick when he does leave.
5. With the uncertainty of getting a QB in this year’s draft, Orton might be the best option we have.
6. Cassel becomes tradeable (granted it won’t be for much).
Is it ideal? No. But we are hardly in an ideal situation. Sometimes you just have to do what you can to stay afloat before you worry about moving on.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Dec 16, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
Still don't see it
I’d take Cassel over paying Orton over 20 Million for a year
Just because teams have a franchise tag doesn’t mean you have to use it.
If you’d want him it would make much more sense to sign him to just sign him to a 1 year contract
He's unlikely to sign a 1 year contract.
He gives the team the best chance to win immediately, which is of huge importance to Pioli right now. If this was last year or the year before, it would be different. But Pioli is coming into year 4 of his 5 year plan. That means there has to be results.
Orton getting a franchise tag provides opportunities. It makes the Chiefs more competitive now. It increases his value for either a trade or a compensatory draft pick. It allows Stanzi to develop. It also provides a viable option for the incoming HC. There aren’t many coaches who will want to be tied to Cassel. Orton, on the other hand, is a much more desirable option. This helps in the the coaching hunt.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Dec 16, 2011 2:32 PM CST up reply actions
Who is to say Orton get's a favorable offer elsewhere
to be a Starting QB, maybe this is is his best opportunity, it is actually pretty common and often times advantageous for people looking to (re)prove themselve a capable starter to sign a 1-year contract to prove themselves and up their value
Seattle and Washington are both in the QB market.
Pete Carrol has passed on drafting a QB several times, no reason to assume he wouldn’t do that again. Dan Snyder is notorious for hiring high profile players that have a hard time getting on elsewhere.
The Chiefs have to MAKE this his best opportunity. That isn’t going to happen in just 3 games.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Dec 16, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
You can't assume a Bowe deal gets done.
A fellow named Carl Peterson, who happened to draft Bowe, could end up in Miami. I would bet he’d shell out big bucks to reunite with his WR, and imagine him accross the field from Brandon Marshall.
I don’t think Pioli will shell out the money that it will take to keep Bowe, unless it was just Haley who didn’t like him.
Goodbye Todd Haley
If Orton is getting the tag, then the assumption has to be that Bowe and Carr got their deals done...
or it was decided that they are being let go.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Dec 16, 2011 2:34 PM CST up reply actions
Haley liked Bowe
I think they have to keep Bowe… but I would much rather the Chiefs franchise Bowe than Orton
First of all,
If they wouldn’t have fired the great almighty Haley, We wouldn’t need to draft a QB. A little more time and he would have had Palko winning like Tebow. In fact Tebow isn’t Tebowing to God he is Tebowing to the Great Haley, who got the shaft from Pioli, who has built a shitty team from day 1, just so he could Sabatoge the Great Haley. My apologies to you Haley, I thought you was a terrible coach this year, I didn’t realize it was all Pioli to make you look like shit this year. Please forgive me master Haley.
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
kinda reads like that around here doesn't it?
I found it to be a big surprise how many loyalists there are.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
I think a lot of fans recently (the last year maybe) started to put a lot of love, trust, and faith in the guy.
The jury is still out whether it was a good or bad move for those fans.
I was once fired from a job two days after I waited on Matt Cassel and his wife Lauren Killian. Totally my AP moment to remember. Unfortunately also one of my stupidest moments.
by Chiefs_swagger on Dec 16, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
Really no need for that in this particular thread
Taking away from a really good fanpost
by Steve_in_RI on Dec 16, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
Really, So I'm not allowed to post want i want, but everyone else is.
Ok, Steve didn’t realizing i was violating any Rules. MY Bad. I will ask you for now one what I’m allowed to post, and when. Ok ?
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Or, you could relax and learn something from Steve
There was a great (and much commented on) fan post about exactly this kind of thing. Traditionally, at AP, when I open a post about QB drafts, I expect to see comments about — QB draft prospects
A post about the o-line have comments on—
The offensive line play
Posts about player controversies —
Comments about the current situation
Your comments are welcome. I, for one, would rather read them in the post about Haley on ESPN, or an open thread. It’s not a rule, just how AP has been (like the no “first” standard)
by juvatbull on Dec 16, 2011 11:21 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
When I open a post, I expect to see anything,
That’s just the way I’ve always seen it. But I will leave it at that, and will play by the rules
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Nope didnt say that either.
I was more saying it to keep the integrity of this good fanpost. Nobody was saying anything about Haley. Thus my comment.
As someone who writes posts frequently, I can probably vouch for the author and say putting in work gets tiresome when people use the thread as their personal soapbox.
I never said you were violating anything, just common courtesy
by Steve_in_RI on Dec 16, 2011 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Well put Steve.
Never argue with an Idiot...... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
sometimes I wonder how they would do that chalk outline, if you pushed someone into a tree chipper.
Ok I agree, I should have maybe not put that in this thread,
I will leave it at that.
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
SOME OF YOU PEOPLE NEED TO LOOSEN UP
Ii mean come on this is suppose to be a fun place but you people are constantly crtisizeing people on what they write spelling grammer if you dont like it skip it and go on to the next one while i don’t agree with any thing he said cause i personally liked haley i still think he should be able to wright anythng he wants
I think we will see more QB's taken high (in the first) becasue of the new rookie wage scale.
There will be a little less long term risk gambling on a QB.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Yes indeed
and I also think we’ll see more trades into the top 10 as a result as well.
Braccae illae virides cum subucula rosea et tunica Caledonia-quam elenganter concinnatur!
Possibly.
Teams always have a lot of needs generally though and rarely are there more than 1 or 2 QB’s that actually pan out as NFL caliber starters, regardless of their lofty college status. I am guessing only 2 of the top 4 QB’s go in the first round. Always a couple of sliders, and with OL and DL on everyone’s list, many teams will go another direction. I suspect, if we are around number 10, we will forego QB and draft a tackle or top RB.
If we lose out then #5 pick is very likely as the teams ahead of us(behind us?) all have at least one winnable game.
Here’s a hypothetical though…
Let’s say McDaniels is out of the head coaching picture and stays in St.Louis. I don’t think he or the Rams are happy with Bradford so maybe he’s available, We have McDaniels golden boy on our roster with a very appealing 5.4M$ for next year salary. Would you trade Cassel and maybe a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Bradford? He does have some injury issues but he could still be a very good player for us.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
I don't think they trade Bradford.
I expect the cap implications would be ridiculous.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
6 year 78 million deal with 50 million guaranteed.
I don’t know the specifics but I would expect with 4 years left the prorated bonus money accelerated against the cap could easily be over 30 million in cap charges.
The views expressed by craig in calgary do not necessarily represent the views of all Canadians.
Another scenario where Bradford becomes available is if Spags gets the boot out of town.
And a new coach wants his own QB, drafted especially with their draft position and the quality at the QB position at the top of the draft.
"Give them nothing! But take from them everything!"
by GenericBrand on Dec 16, 2011 9:58 AM CST up reply actions
There is no if, on Spags getting the boot.
The GM is likely gone as well. But I think ownership is going to hire a GM that believes in Bradford.
The Rams could be making a draft day trade
But I would think it would be to slide back a few spots to one of the teams wanting to move up to get RG3 or Barkley. The Chiefs could be that team if they choose, but I don’t see it happening. Hope I’m wrong.
The first 3 draft picks are very valuable with all the teams in the top 15 looking for QB’s, a couple of them will do what it takes to move up and get one. Washington, I imagine will be a team that definitely moves up to grab whoever they prefer between RG3 and MB.
I would not be the least bit surprised if QB’s go 1, 2, 3.
by kcsno56 on Dec 16, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
They're not trading Bradford.
Not a chance…we have about as much chance of getting Peyton Manning.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 16, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Hell no...
With McDaniels still over there… we trade Cassel for Bradford and they give us a 2nd and 3rd, cause that is how he rolls!
Go Chiefs!!!!
by ravenhawk on Dec 16, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
someone pass the j to Griffin
so he can slip, then we pick him up in likely fashion as Houston…
by gibson21 on Dec 16, 2011 9:57 AM CST reply actions 5 recs
please do not even consider Landry Jones
That is all.
by kcsno56 on Dec 16, 2011 10:04 AM CST reply actions 7 recs
Agreed
I’d take someone in the 2nd or 3rd, and keep Cassel for 8games-1year. Wouldn’t put us as far back as picking up Landry Jones in my opinion…
Side note, I think Landry Jones goes back to school
I'd take Jones in the 2nd or 3rd as a developmental guy
But he’s not ready to be starting next year.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I really wouldn't..
But by all accounts, he’s going late 1st, at worst early 2nd, so we shouldn’t have a shot at him (thank god) unless, we take him with our first, and if this happens, I’ll immediately drown my sorrows in scotch.
I don't like Jones either BUT...
I’m don’t watch tape and grade QBs. I like RGIII and Luck because I’ve seen them make big plays, but maybe Jones does a lot of things well.
by Wait and See on Dec 18, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
I'll pick a new team...
…if Pioli even winks at Landry Jones.
Boomer Sooner.
CRB
by Chief Running Bare on Dec 16, 2011 10:06 AM CST reply actions
We already have a 28 year old developmental QB.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
by JComp11 on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I actually think his age may make him more ready.
He is more mature than others and, sometimes even the young guns are not showing improvement until they are in their late 20’s.
Then again he took years off for golf
Will still have to adjust to the speed of the game, and reading NFL defenses…
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
valid point
I couldn’t remember what it was that he did to cause him to be that old and a college qb
He played baseball. I don’t see how he’s an upgrade at all over Orton/Cassel.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Baseball.. golf.. same thing
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
No rookie is an upgrade
at least not immediately. That is not the question. It’s who would you pick. I am just throwing out his name. By the way, Weeden’s team will be playing Luck’s team in a bowl game this year so we can get a comparison of the 2, to a point.
Typically speaking
Rookies are not. Will there be the anomolies? yes. But to assume a rookie qb would be the savior for the team year one is asking too much. Great if it happens, but unlikely.
If a rookie came in here and could complete a pass for more than 10 yards, he would be a savior
If the KC QB, in anyway shape or form could take the top off the defense JC and co could run wild. And if they stuffed the box, the moster WR’s could run wild in the secondary against one on one. It all hinges on the ability to throw down the field.
At this point I’d take a bag lady at QB if she could throw a 20 yard go pattern.
This is the real reason why Haley got fired...
Weeden and Haley are big golfing buddies!
Go Chiefs!!!!
I like Weeden
But it comes down to how much hes gonna get paid and how long he will be around. The dudes as old as i am and ive been out of college for 6 years. If we dont get one of the top 4, then this kid could be a pretty good look
"It's still real to me dammit!"
I wouldn't look at him earlier than the 4th
Age, offense, etc just not worth a high/mid pick
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
I dont know..
if all the QBs are taken i would take him in the 2nd rd after we draft our O Lineman
"It's still real to me dammit!"
2nd round pick for an old developmental QB
.. sounds familiar
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:15 AM CST up reply actions
Im just saying that it might be a reach..
but we will need a QB that ready to come in and play and he would be the last one left to be close enough to playing his rookie season. Hes got arm strength and accuracy and he plays in a pro style offense. Nobody doubts the guys ability, only his age.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
Gimme Orton next year over Weeden
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:19 AM CST up reply actions
Depends on his asking price
Orton is an upgrade, but I wouldn’t break the bank to keep him and still have Cassel’s contract as a back up
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
actually...maybe the best thing to do is do nothing....
Next year…Orton starts, maybe trade Cassel, keep grooming stanzi…….and see what falls out of the draft with all these teams clamoring for new QBs….maybe Colts trade Manning too us…who knows.
If nothing happens….take Vontaze Burfict at 10 spot
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 16, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Please no Burfict, especially that high
2nd round or later.. yeah then we will talk.
Dude has continued to regress, can not keep himself under control, gets in a lot of bad positions, bites on almost every playfake, does not use his hands well to shed blocks instead tries to out muscle everyone he plays
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
yah I would take him in the 2nd if he dropped to the 2nd....
or…..Te’O
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 16, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Te'o is returning to ND
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
oh yah?...thats good...someone to grab in 2013
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 17, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm starting to like the kid from Boston College
I think his name is Kuechly
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
I don't see him as a SILB though, much more of a WILB
Doesn’t take/shed blocks well, flows down the LOS to make tackles, a lot like Paul Poslaksjdf;alksdjfal;skdjfsky
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
Burfict just needs
Good coaching. If Crennel can do what we’ve seen to Johnson, he can turn Burfict into a monster. Pioli and company also seem to be pretty big on discipline, which I think would be good for the youngster. We will regret not taking Burfict.
by Brett Chamberlain on Dec 16, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Considering Burfict REGRESSED even after officials were fired due to targetting him
Meaning he got away with more than the year before.. no I’m staying away from him with a high pick, if he drops like Houston then yes scoop him up
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:19 AM CST up reply actions
Id still grab him with a high pick
last year the guy gave me football wood…do you know how hard that is to do with as jaded as I am!
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 17, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
Weeden in the few close matchups they had
looked completely shook. ISU had him lost in the 4th and OT. That’s when I want to see a QB shine, especially against an opponent like that. Couple of hideous throws cost them a trip to the big one.
Other than that, yes, statistically he had a great season in a QB friendly system with All-American caliber receivers. Chris Weinke looked good in college too at 27 and that didn’t go well.
by Steve_in_RI on Dec 16, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Keep in mind...
That ISU game was the day they received news of yet another plane crash within the OSU athletic dept. The entire team and coaching staff was flat and glassy-eyed. I’m not taking away from ISU—they played lights out—but OSU had other things on their mind that day. I wouldn’t judge Weeden on that ISU game.
However, I also wouldn’t draft Weeden before the 4th. Your Weinke point is spot on.
Dont forget
that ISU is starting to turn a corner. They are becoming a legit football team.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
Yeah!
Don’t be dissing my clones.
I bleed red and gold whether it’s my chiefs or my clones…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 16, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
I played football with him in middle and high school
He didn’t even start playing QB until his junior year. So he has 2 years of QB in HS and then college. I would say odds are he won’t make it in the pros but he has a hell of an arm and hasn’t reached his ceiling. I think he would be worth considering in rounds 5-7.
I dont really care who we get
I dont have a preference one way or another.. I just hope they get the guy they want and not just settle with a QB because thats who was available at the time. if they want Luck.. then break the bank and get him. If they want RG3 then make some trades. If they dont want any of them, then have a plan and execute it before the draft.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
by Matt in KC on Dec 16, 2011 10:07 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Yea but were dealing with Scott Pioli....
And his New England way or the highway….
Exactly.. Hes already screwed up big time with Haley
Im hoping he sees how the fans have reacted and realizes how close he is to being canned. My guess is that he tries to make everything ok with the fans and go with the sexy picks and some real big name FA talent.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
Matt -I wish they thought as logical as we did...
Maybe the fear of god has been struck in Pioli with the Haley firing (since he hired him and all) and MAYBE just MAYBE he knows he is going to live or die with Cassel.. SO he just might pull the trigger.. or I could be waaaay off….
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions
Right-
If he goes with Cassel next year hes essentially telling the fans to shove it. We know what Cassel can do. And its not pretty.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
by Matt in KC on Dec 16, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If he goes with Cassel next year he's essentially telling the fans
that he’s dumber than the fans.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
or drunker...
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:22 AM CST up reply actions
That's why I upgraded to drinking pine sol during the NE game
by mushin on Dec 16, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No need for a mop
Just lick the floor clean
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:27 AM CST up reply actions
It's funny Pioli is getting all this bashing for firing Haley
Yet Haley said he was going to quit anyways…
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:17 AM CST up reply actions
Did he say that on ESPN?
Maybe it was Hunts idea for change…(the firing) and thats why Pioli said multiple times I have to do my job better…
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Haley said he was going to quit the week sometime during the week before the Jets game
IMO there are some fans who are ’’hurt’’ for Haley being gone already and instead of looking at it as time to upgrade, they believe Pioli should be fired. We don’t see much from Pioli, we saw Haley every game day/pressers/etc
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
True
I wasnt hurt by it. But then again I seem to be apart of the minority..
I think it maybe that we are cutting off one head of the hydra and not all of the heads in order to try to slay the beast(problem)
OR
Firing Haley was like putting a band-aide on a amputated arm…
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
First HC for Pioli
Had no experience, did well.. but I don’t think anyone honestly expected Haley to last for 10+ years
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly...
We didn’t get into the hiring of coaches untill late in the game… Pioli didn’t have his eggs in order for the draft his first year. We also knew that the coaching staff that Pioli wanted wasn’t in place at this time (i.e. see Romeo Crennel siting out of coaching duties for a year). Pioli also knew that it would take 3-4 years to get this ship right.
2nd season we bring Crennel in and Weiss comes shortly after that. The writing was on the wall that Haley’s time in KC was going to be short if he was to start losing. Pioli had backup plans already in place if Haley was to fail.
These people that want Pioli’s head will be the same people to complain that Pioli was fired when he goes and turns around another franchise, and/or complain when we are back into full rebuild mode again. Stability needs to occur at the GM position for a little while… I think most of this is hatred of Czarist Peterson fatigue in Kansas City. Firing Pioli right now is not the right way to handle things.
Go Chiefs!!!!
Pioli gets the brunt of it
because he was the one that couldnt co exist with haley. The way this has all happened and played out, Pioli looks like a chicken shit
"It's still real to me dammit!"
Yeah cause it was Pioli going after Bowe right?
We don’t know all the reasons why Haley was fired, he wanted to quit, went after Bowe, etc.. yeah if that all is true, thank god he is gone.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
In the end it is up to the HC to co-exsist...
The GM can always go out and get another HC. It is up to the HC to co-exist wit his boss (the GM) and frankly Haley couldn’t do that. Add on top of that he made a cluster f*ck of a coaching job this whole season. He deserved to be fired!
Loyalty...
Pioli did little to squash the rumors from the end of last year. How long do you think he’s wanted to fire him…my guess, year one.
Please God
let us take a 1st round qb this year. I’ve waited way too long. It’s “that” time now. Pull the tirgger Pioli!
By the time we pick
You won’t want us to take a QB. You don’t want the ‘4th best’ QB in this draft.
exactly..
Its trade up and go all in or.. trade down and get an Oline guy at a great value in the mid 20 pick area..
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
or.. trade down and get an Oline guy at a great value in the mid 20 pick area..
I think we all know Pioli is probably heading this direction – shore up the o-line, keep Cassel on his feet, and he can run an effective offense.
Ryan Succop will be the kicker for the AFC in the 2011 Pro Bowl
by PVChiefsfan on Dec 16, 2011 10:27 AM CST up reply actions
What I expect as well
I’m not sure we trade down though.
There may be the 2nd best OT in the draft sitting where we pick.
the Stanford kid or Reiff from Iowa?
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
Martin is #2 at LT
I’m not sure Reiff will be able to play LT in the NFL, likely a RT
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
O line....schmo line....
lets get Vontaze Burfict in the 1st…then O-Line with 2nd and 3rd
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 16, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
No.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
or Te'O
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 16, 2011 10:57 AM CST up reply actions
Fuck yes, need that kind of crazy playing next to DJ
A linebacking core of Hali, DJ, Burfict and Houston all backed by Berry is scary good.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Dec 16, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
word
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 16, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
It would be a ballsy move by Pioli...
Maybe he is starting a trend..
Berry – You dont take S that high
Baldwin – Diva
Houston – Mr 420
Burfict – Immature player?
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
He took a chance on an immature coach who got his team personal fouls
Why not take a chance on a blood thirsty LB?
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Dec 16, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Honestly
I think that i would have done the same thing if it was me.. i was livid watching that shit from my house..
"It's still real to me dammit!"
I was beyond rage..
I was in a stae of infuriating silence…
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Ya I was pretty pissed...
I think the thing that got Haley in trouble wasn’t that he got the unsportsmanlike penalty, but that right afterwards McClain got the same unsportsmanlike penalty for coming out on the field yelling at the refs. This showed that he had lost the team.
While those penalties sucked, but not as badly as the refs, I fully agree with their outrage at the calls. I too would have been out on the field.
Go Chiefs!!!!
Very valid point
A blood thirsty QB or a Nasty Mean streak type player is a key ingredient missing on the already Developing/awesome LB corps
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
Whats a bood thirsty QB?.....Vick?...snicker
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 17, 2011 9:29 PM CST up reply actions
If you put a gun to my head right now
And I had to guess our draft pick right now, it would be Reiff. And I do think he can play LT at a high level. They may start him at RT his rookie year, though.
by kcsno56 on Dec 16, 2011 10:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
we won't pick because manning will be coming to kc
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Dec 16, 2011 1:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'll take 4-5 great offensive years
And build from there…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 16, 2011 2:24 PM CST up reply actions
Yep...im down with the Manning possibility....
I dont think it will be like the Montanna era either…Manning still has gas in the tank…and well…its Manning…I just still cant picture Manning in red…some sorta mental block.
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Dec 17, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah totally, gotta pick early
Don’t ever pick a QB later in the draft, that Aaron Rodgers guy (#24 overall)
Terrible pickup.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Dec 16, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
just look at my sig and thats how long its been since we drafted a qb in the first round
1983
will the chiefs ever draft a Qb in the first round, not since todd blackledge in 83. and the chiefs could of had marino. OH well atleast 65 toss power trap worked for KC, it should be wide open red. Hank stram still the man.
by niageriannit1 on Dec 16, 2011 1:24 PM CST up reply actions
Wait a Year
Stanzi is the Team Captain type of Leader that the Chiefs need in the locker room. I would say that he has more enthusiasm than Luck, Barkley, RGIII (who I think will be gone by the time the Chiefs pick).
I love stats, but the Chiefs have not had a QB with passion since Montana. Green, Gannon, and Cassel didn’t have the Winning Spirit. They were more of cliche spewers around the Gatorade cooler. None of them really cared about being a Chief. Stanzi does. He might not lead the NFL in Stats. But I think he could lead the team to wins.
Not true at all
Gannon was the man, the Chiefs just chose the wrong guy. Trent Green was awesome but quiet. And if Cassel has anything at all going for him, it’s his competitiveness and “winning spirit.” There are a lot of knocks on Cassel, but I don’t think you can knock his attitude.
by Chatch McNasty on Dec 16, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
Chiefs picked the wrong guy
When they kept putting Bono out there.
Finally went with Gannon, then he got injured and we lost in the playoffs with Bono.
Then Carl Peterson got bit by the good idea fairy and went with Elvis Grbac instead
of Gannon.
With the defense and Priest Holmes we coulda gone to the Superbowl.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Dec 16, 2011 1:49 PM CST up reply actions
I think the top QB's will be gone by the time we pick
So I see us trading back and addressing the oline. Then in the 2nd or 3rd Drafting Kellen Moore or Brandon Weeden.
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
by KingChief on Dec 16, 2011 10:16 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Moore will be available past the 5th easily
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
Trade up?
Does the pay structure affect what picks are worth now? What would it take to potentially move up from say 10, to 3 and pick up RG3 or Barkley?
Yes.
Picks are much more valuable then in years past. We went through a decade where there were only a couple trades within the top 5, now I expect we’ll see them every year.
But moving up will cost more than it did…and for that reason, I doubt Pioli will pay that price.
Trade our #10 and next years first round pick
for RG3 or Barkley. A QBOTF would be worth 2 #1 picks.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 16, 2011 2:27 PM CST up reply actions
I think it would take a little more than that
Like a 4th this year, or a 3rd next…but it would be tempting.
Personally, I would do it, but I highly doubt Pioli will.
That's almost what the Falcons gave up to jump from 21 to 6
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:13 PM CST up reply actions
Well it's a 2nd and a 4th less
So, if that’s almost to you, then so be it.
Yeah thats close considering we wont have to jump up that far
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 5:36 PM CST up reply actions
Also it would be even closer when you factor in
Ankeny/your trade picks-2 firsts/3rd/4th
Atlanta for Jones-2 firsts/2nd/4th/4th
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 5:37 PM CST up reply actions
No, actually, as I said the first time:
What I said it would take: 1, 1, 4
Atl trade: 1, 1, 2, 4, 4.
So, as I just stated, a 2 and a 4 more. You seem extremely argumentative, pretty much all the time, and you also tend to not want to admit a mistake. For instance, you were very confident in a thread the other day, it was likely we were getting the 7th pick, and when I factually pointed out that was in fact extremely unlikely, you didn’t respond to the comment.
Now, you’re picking arguments over my comments (not directed at you) about my opinion on what it would cost to make a trade up. If you’re going to do so, at least don’t waste my time by misstating what I said.
Here, I believe, one of your mistakes is thinking the 6th and 3rd pick are relatively equal, whereas in the draft value chart (or common sense) the picks get exponentially more valuable at the very top of drafts.
I stand by what I think it would take to move up. If you would’ve argued, ‘well, maybe it’ll just take a 5th instead of a 4th,’ Or given me an example of a trade more similar to what is being proposed, and what it cost those teams, that would’ve advanced the discussion, possibly enlightening me and changing my perspective. Instead, it certainly seems like your entire goal is just to argue, and if that is the case, scratch that itch with someone else, b/c I’ve already grown tired of it.
I’m drunk, OUT.
I actually did misread what you said
However jumping up from 21 to 6 should cost a lot more than 10 to 3, especially in this draft where it is very very top heavy. There is no trade chart at this point to reference due to the rookie wage scale
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 5:25 AM CST up reply actions
It would cost more, I said it would, you tried to say that I was saying it would cost the same.
A 2 and a 4 is nothing to sneeze at.
And you’re contradicting yourself with this statement:
21 to 6 should cost a lot more than 10 to 3, especially in this draft where it is very very top heavy.
But this is what happens when you’re arguing just to argue.
How so?
You will see a few elite prospects but there is solid depth throughout the draft, which is what teams like the Rams or Panthers could use instead of 1 high pick.
I didn’t say this draft was horrid after the first 3 picks, I said it was top heavy. Completely different.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 3:30 PM CST up reply actions
Ha
Keep arguing with yourself:
You will see a few elite prospects but there is solid depth throughout the draft
it is very very top heavy.
Hey, as much as you love to argue, I think you found your ideal person to debate
yourself. And neither of you will ever admit they are wrong, perfect!
I don't get what you are not understanding
A few elite prospects=top heavy
Never said it was a complete shit class, but thanks for twisting things around in your mind.
Done with you
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
Oh and just an FYI, Matt Kalil is entering the draft. There was speculation that Barkley and Kalil would stay for a potential bowl game next year, but now that Kalil is gone, I’m hoping Barkley declares as well!
Posted that in the What should the Chiefs do on draft day? thread
They should both come out
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
I still have faith. Everyone said Pioli would NEVER draft a safety at #5 and look what happened.
We’re a franchise QB from being DANGEROUS. Please Pioli do that right thing.
If one of the top 3 fall to us, I think he would strongly consider it
Trading up for one, with what that will cost (to move from 10 to 3) is another story.
Hope I’m wrong, and it certainly isn’t impossible, but I think it’s pretty unlikely.
Hell to move up 21 spots to pick up Julio only costed what
a 2nd last year(swapped firsts obviously), a 1st and 4th this upcoming year
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly. So moving up from say 10 to 3 would involve 2 2nd rounders
rather than a 1st and a 2nd.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Trade
From 27th to 6th pick, Atlanta gave the Browns five draft picks: their 1st- (27th overall), second- (59th) and fourth-round (124th) picks this year and their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012.
Whoops forgot a 4th lol sue me
So it very well could be a second next year/extra pick this year to move up a few spots to grab a QB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
Very good point
Based on that event, maybe we really want a QB and don’t want anyone to know that we do, so Pioli is “leaking” we’re good with Cassel going forward.
by Wait and See on Dec 18, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
Top 10 picks could be more valuable now
Although we don’t know for sure. The fact you don’t have to pay a top pick 60ish Mil and if they bust there goes years of your franchise, Cam got 22mil.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
16 to 10 last year cost the Jags a 2nd round pick and that was under the same structure.
I’d imagine 10 to 3 would involve a 2nd and 3rd or maybe even 2 2nd rounders.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
10 to 3 is MUCH more expensive than 16 to 10
Think, 3X as much.
I'm not sure 3x as much
There is not even a value chart that we could refer to
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:24 AM CST up reply actions
Here's the chart
It’s not exact, but a guideline.
That I believe is the old one, without new wage scale factored in
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
It's actually...
The same one that was around before contracts got insane, so it was outdated, and now back to being relevant.
Depends on several factors. I also think that we'll be picking more around 7th anyways.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Guarantee we'll be in 7th position after next week.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Teams below us play very beatable teams this week.
Bucs vs. Cowboys
Browns vs Cards
Dolphins vs. Bills
Redskins vs. Giants
Panthers vs. Texans
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
My picks
I have the bucs losing
Brown losing
dolphins losing
redskins losing
panthers losing..
Alright!! we could be gaining some ground on these guys.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
Of course.. the way things have been going
I can see Romeo pulling one out of his ass here and killing the Packers at home.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
Beating Green Bay would make my day.
Who doesn’t want to destroy the dreams of a team’s perfect season?
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Not scared of any of those teams you picked.
Cards and Bills suck. Cowboys melt down in the 4th. Texans are starting a 5th round rookie QB and the G-Men have lost 4 out of their last 5.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I wrote about this in another thread let me ctrl+C and Ctrl+V
First off, our SOS listed above is current, and doesn’t factor our last 3 opponents, which have very good records. Currently we really aren’t even 10th, we are 12th. If you really want to get into it, look at this spreadsheet .
To get to #7:
First we would have to lose out, which mathematically is less than 50/50.
Second we would need wins from both Philly and Buf. Buffalo will be a dog in the final 3 games. Their best hope is this weekend vs. Mia.
That gets us to 10th.
To move from 10th to 7th, we would then need one win from Clev and Tampa or to jump over Wash, Jax, Car or Mia, we need them to win two games. A combo of 3 of those last 6 occurrences.
It gets even worse if look at the schedules of the teams to get us from 10th to 7th.
I think we have a ‘realistic’ shot at getting to 10th. 7th not so much. Sure it ‘can’ happen, but it’s not likely.
That looked like a blast to make.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
Never looked that far into it.
10th and 7th put us in the same situation though. Out of the running for a top 3 QB. I think that’s why there’s so much debate about trading up right now.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not interested in projecting SOS
I’ll continue to update this article each week based on realized results.
by Wait and See on Dec 18, 2011 9:09 PM CST up reply actions
If we could trade up, but it’d cost us two 1st rounders. Do we do it? If this meant we got the franchise QB we haven’t had in YEARS.
Possibly add Bowe into the equation when trading up
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
ehhh I’m still not sure about that yet. He’s improved over the years but still makes boneheaded drops. But I’d like to see him with Baldwin and Breaston for years with a capable QB to spread the field.
I just do not think Pioli has seen enough to give out a big deal
I do believe Bowe wants a monster contract.. I have a hard time seeing Pioli giving him one
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:32 AM CST up reply actions
I’ll be on board if he’s demanding BIG money, but if he wants to be a Chief and will work with us, I say sign him again.
I know we have a ton of money that we really do HAVE to spend
I just don’t think Pioli will give him a huge deal, although yes keeping the WR corps together would be very nice
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:35 AM CST up reply actions
If we don't get a QB
I can see Bowe leaving
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
He aint just walking out
Tagged and traded
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:41 AM CST up reply actions
I can see it being a Vincent Jackson situation
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
I don't think Pioli will let him stick around if he doesn't want to be here
Ala TonyG and also Waters
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Wait...
Wouldn’t we only have to move up to #5, ahead of Miami, to get one of the top 3 QB’s? Indy and Washington, and then us. So trade with Carolina.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 16, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Two issues with that...
One, Clev and Jax both also may take QB’s. Clev especially.
Two, and this is the bigger problem, all those other teams can move up also. It’s the reason, IMO the top 3 QB’s go 1, 2, 3. I think Min and STL trade back. This is a QB league more than ever, and owners like Snyder will do whatever it takes to secure one. Wash is the one team that I have almost zero doubt is coming out of this draft with one of the top QB’s…that or Peyton.
From the few games I watched
I wouldn’t consider Landry Jones a top 10 pick. That being the case, we need to draft one of the top three QBs in order to have them start next year. ESPN has Jones ranked as the 37th best college QB from this season. Behind the big three, Kellen Moore, Brandon Weeden, Kirk Cousins, Tyler Wilson, Nick Foles, and bunch of other lesser known names and juniors are rated higher than Jones.
If Moore is rated higher than Jones
I am all set with Jones.
Out of that second tier, I found Foles to be much more suited for the next level than the others.
by Steve_in_RI on Dec 16, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
I'm also big on Foles
He, to me, is this year’s Christian Ponder.
Your eyes tell you more than any statistics can.
So what team will he be on?
I mean.. he was a rookie THIS year for us, he could be considered a rookie NEXT year if on a new team
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:25 AM CST up reply actions
Stanzi is no where near ready.
Hes been a 3rd stringer getting 5-8 snaps a practice with #2 players. He couldnt beat palko out for the second string job. He may be closer to ready next year, but def not this year.
"It's still real to me dammit!"
its ok.. we are all entitled to be wrong from time to time...
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 10:26 AM CST up reply actions
Taylor Martinez ftw
Todd Haley lost 7 of his last 15 games by 20 or more points. It was time for him to go.
by joplin chiefs fan on Dec 16, 2011 10:24 AM CST reply actions
We don't run the option
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
If we don't go QB in the first
I would take a flier on him, he didn’t really look much better this year than last year.. he may already have hit his ceiling. Not a huge arm but can make all the throws, accuracy is a big thing with him.. very spotty, mobile enough to extend plays
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:31 AM CST up reply actions
or if Stevie doesn't hit Berry low
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:52 AM CST up reply actions
Landry Jones..
I know a lot of people aren’t hot on this guy but I found this pretty good about him.
http://www.thephinsider.com/2011/12/16/2638905/tale-of-the-tape-landry-jones
Just sayin..
If we were to draft Jones and let him sit for the year or however long it takes. he COULD be what we’ve been looking for.
For those that don’t want to read that article. Miami drafted Dan Marino in the first round. He threw 17 Td’s and 23 Int’s his senior year AFTER having a great year his junior season. Sounds oddly familiar to Jones?
Sounds like Rex Grossman too
and he is terrible
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
I like Jones' arm & accuracy
I’ve just heard that he falls apart under pressure (like another QB we have on the roster)
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I hope Jones doesn't come out this year but takes another year to refine his game
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
I wasn't around for the Marino draft
I can say that Jones did seem to regress in every facet of his game, gets rattled/bad accuracy most of the time on mid/deep passes/slow release and reading
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Definitely, but that isn’t the tell tale sign of a bust either. He looked good to start the year but regressed after losing Broyles.
With that being said, if KC’s staff thinks he can come in and be our QB. I take it you guys would be mad?
If we pick him top 10.. I still don't know..
We could likely miss out on the top 3 QBs, Kalil and Martin before we pick.. Reiff would be a nice upgrade at RT, however those can be found anywhere in the draft.. DeCastro would be a nice guard for us, however a top 10 LG?
I see us being in a very iffy spot if those 5 players are gone(Luck/RGIII/Barkley/Kalil/Martin)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:53 AM CST up reply actions
St. Louis could look at Kalil/Martin as well
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
The fact he went to hell after the Broyle's injury says a lot.
0 TDs in his last 3 games and 2 of those defenses faced were Baylor and Iowa State. If he needs premier receivers to get the ball in the end zone against Big 12 defenses then it doesn’t say much about him.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
Agreed
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Am I the only one that doesn't want RG3
I just think statistically, drafting a Heisman winner is a bad idea. How many times has Heisman QB been drafted and how many times has it actually panned out? Maybe RG3 is different ad he turns out great (Newton has been pretty good this year), but stats say it’s a bad idea to draft RG3. I dunno…maybe it’s just me.
Watch several games of his and then make an opinion
I have been talking him up on AP before he was the popular name, I am sold on the kid
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I have, but thanks for assuming I haven't
I used to live in that area, so Baylor highlights/games were available to watch. I thought he was good well before this year, but now that he has the Heisman, I think statistically the odds are that he won’t pan out in the NFL.
Because he has a trophy he won't pan out?
Come on now.. if you have seen his tape(not just highlights) and believe the kid has the tools.. he has them with or without the piece of bronze
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, I've seen him and he looks phenomenal.
But being a stats person (not a sports fan that likes facts, but someone that actually analyzes statistics for a profession), I tend to believe data and probabilities. Odds are that he won’t be very good in the NFL. Watching him play makes that hard to believe, which is why I’m a bit torn between my objective (not pan out) and subjective (think he’s a baller) viewpoints. I almost always tend to favor data over opinion, so that’s why I’m leaning toward not wanting him.
I wonder how many of the other QBs to win the Heisman were not good prospects just blew up the NCAA
That is the big difference, a lot of the NCAA game does not translate to the NFL. I could care less if he won the Heisman(although he did win me 100$)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with your point
He has the fundamentals and mechanics to do well in the NFL. He’s not a good NCAA QB, he’s a good QB. It’s just that the Heisman stats make me hesitant.
But hey, that’s the beauty of it…we’ll be able to see how the experiment plays out. I just hope he goes to the NFC somewhere so it doesn’t bit us in the ass if he is phenomenal.
That is all that can be done, wait and see
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Basing your opinion of him on NFL success of past Heisman winners?
That logic doesn’t really fly man.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
Using past data to predict future probabilties doesn't work?
Science is doomed…lol. Okay, so this isn’t science, but I hope you see the point.
Yes, but your constant in this "science project" is Heisman winning QBs.
The problem with that is that they are all different.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 11:02 AM CST up reply actions
That's not a constant, it's a categorical variable
Nothing is a constant, but there are random variables (things you can’t account for) that can explain your results. Random variables generally do not drive a pattern.
Let me ask you this. What do Charlie Ward and RG3 have in common
other than they both won Heisman trophies?
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
Ward and Third kinda sound similar?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:07 AM CST up reply actions
Stats that do transfer well from college to the pros include:
completion percentage and TD:INT ratios. Both of which look favorable for RG3.
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 16, 2011 11:08 AM CST up reply actions
Intelligence of QBs is a big factor as well. Most good QBs score well on the
Wonderlic. Think RG3 has that covered.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 11:10 AM CST up reply actions
I see all of your points, I don't think you see mine
I understand what you, BAMF, and Fetish are saying. I get it. I actually agree with you on many points – he just has what it takes to be a good QB, even the non-quantiative stuff like “winning under pressure.” Yes, I get it. But you all fail to see my hesitation…
Did you know that there is a very strong, positive correlation between Omega fatty acids and prostate cancer? There is no argument against this, it’s based on solid statistical data. However, that does not mean that fatty acids CAUSE prostate cancer. But knowing that there is a strong link between omega fatty acids and prostate cancer, doesn’t it make you a little hesitant to take omega fatty acids? You may take omega fatty acids and be just as healthy as can be, but it doesn’t change the fact that the probability of getting prostate cancer does go up.
Long story short…there is a link between Heisman winners and QBs not living up to expectations. Although winning a Heisman doesn’t cause failure, there sure is a strong link. You can’t deny that. That’s enough to make me a bit hesitant.
I would draw a link to Heisman QBs being over drafted due to winning the trophy
The trophy has not changed RGIII’s stock at all
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
The combine will change RG3's stock. He'll tear that shit up.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 11:58 AM CST up reply actions
He is already the #2 QB on most peoples boards
He won’t pass Luck. How is the combine going to change RGIII’s stock?!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:14 PM CST up reply actions
As of now there are just as many, if not more people with Barkley #2
He could certainly solidify the #2 QB spot at the combine and in interviews/Wonderlic at the combine.
Also, it’s more than just being the #2 QB, he could separate himself the way Luck did, so there are 2, clearcut talents that are beyond everyone else. If this happens, it becomes more likely for whoever picking 2nd (MN or STL) to trade the pick b/c it will be worth more via trade.
I've seen a lot more have him at #2 ahead of Barkley after the OU game
Texas game was icing for him, I havn’t looked at too many boards lately, but I don’t see how they could have swapped them(RGIII/Barkley) with no games being played
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 5:39 PM CST up reply actions
Everyone has their own 'they' they pay attention to
But both ESPN guys have Barkley over RG3.
Most mocks out there, have Barkley going before RG3.
Personally, I’d rather have RG3, but that certainly isn’t the consensus.
I never said it was the consensus that RGIII was the #2
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 5:27 AM CST up reply actions
We must be looking at different boards.
Most of the ones i’ve looked at have him after Barkley and not even a top 5 pick. They seem to like him around 7.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 5:16 PM CST up reply actions
If he is #10 or #3 it doesn't matter
I’m talking QB rankings
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
Like I said, Barkley is still above him on a lot of boards.
The combine will change that. It could mean the difference in trading up to 3rd or 7th to get him.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 5:45 PM CST up reply actions
I don't see the combine changing anything
No one is going to overvalue the 40 yard dash for a QB(Raiders do not have a first round pick), like Julio last year who sky rocketed when he ran a 4.36 I believe but doesn’t play that fast on the field.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 5:27 AM CST up reply actions
If there is a link between Heisman and QB disappointment
I think it would be something like: Heisman → lots of hype → drafted too high → unreal expectations from fans → shattered confidence → bust
by Chatch McNasty on Dec 16, 2011 11:18 AM CST up reply actions
I would agree with that, too
I see your point. I would take Luck in the first round if he won the Heisman, too.
I’m starting to free myself from probabilities, but it’s just not in my nature to do so!
So the way I view it is, if he would’ve had a first round grade as a QB anyways, the Heisman doesn’t affect anything. If he had some flaws that scouts would’ve knocked him down a few rounds for, then the Heisman hype could cause him to be drafted too high and be a bust (Tebow?). I don’t think Pioli would reach for a QB in the first round if didn’t think they were worthy of the grade.
by Chatch McNasty on Dec 16, 2011 11:22 AM CST up reply actions
Welcome to the 'real' AP
Always willing to tell you that you are wrong and lead you along the right path
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
Well, you got that half right
Always willing to tell you that you are wrong
by kcsno56 on Dec 16, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
haha
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
I understand the distinction between correlation and causation
But that one correlation by itself doesn’t mean anything. I could say that every person who has ever drowned has had the gene for hemoglobin but that doesn’t indicate any connection between those two points. To get a better idea of what indicates success in the pros, you need to do more of a multi-factor analysis. This one relationship by itself is meaningless.
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 16, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
You're using an incorrect analogy
But I understand what you are saying about multiple variables. But see one of my previous comments on predictor variables vs. random variables – random variables generally do not drive a statistical pattern, you only account for them as statistical noise when interpreting your predictor variables.
More predictor variables (and even factoring in random variables) would = better, but you are incorrect in saying this relationship is meaningless. Statistically, it’s not.
I just don't understand what past winners have to do with this at all.
There’s no relation. Different players, teams, schemes, eras, etc. Now if you told me you didn’t like Case Keenum because NFL QBs from Houston don’t usually pan out I could see your point. They don’t play in a BCS conference and their QBs over the years have seen weaker competition.
Also, the last 3 Heisman winning QBs have looked good in the NFL so far. Maybe a new trend is starting.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
Ugh...
Okay, I’m pretty much done with this thread by now. I don’t mind the discussion on the football aspects, but I’m done explaining why there is a real, statistical pattern.
I guess if I was in a conversation with an engineer, I guess at some point I’d just have to say, “look, I don’t understand the finer points of his argument because I’m not an engineer, so I guess on some level, I just have to trust that this engineer knows what he’s talking about when it comes to engineering.”
If I just say “you win, congratuations” can we end this?
PS – Your Keenum example is a good one and so is your point on the last 3 Heisman QBs, although I would argue only 2 of the 3 are statistically “not entirely shitty” QBs (not counting the W column…but I hate to acknowledge that guy as a winner as long as he plays for the Donkeys).
Statistically speaking
If every rabbit I ever saw was brown, should I assume that all rabbits are brown?
by bamachief5558 on Dec 16, 2011 1:04 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yes
The white ones are cats
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
Been watching RG3
since last year and he looks like the real deal
Men succeed when they realize that their failures are the preparation for their victories.
Luck finished 2nd in the voting. Should we stay clear of him too or is he good because he didn't win?
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
Luck finished 2nd twice.. he is such a bum
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Don't shoot the messenger
Just look at the statistics of Heisman QB winners. QBs that finish 1st often don’t usually pan out. I haven’t dug up the stats for QBs that finish second, but my inclination is that there isn’t as much impact. But I have no data for that. If you have some on runner-up QBs, please post…I would love to see it (because I may very well likely be wrong!) but haven’t the time at the moment to dig.
I will say this. It was a unique year for Heisman candidiates.
I think all of the 5 finalists could very well end up being great in the NFL.
by ChiefsFetish on Dec 16, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
He is such an athlete
He would mask some of our problems with our O-line right now while we try to improve that over the next year or two. I don’t want to trade up to get him but I would love for him to fall to us at 10.
Recent Heisman winners have done better
Cam Newton is having a statistically terrific rookie season. Bradford played well last year before his entire team started to struggle this year. Tim Tebow isn’t putting up the stats, but is putting up some wins (yes, I know their defense is also responsible for that). Carson Palmer was pretty darn good before he got inured too many times.
The recent misses have been Troy Smith and Matt Leinart. Smith was too small and Leinart was too immature. Jason White from 2003 was also too injury-prone. it looks to me that if you stay away from injury-prone players who have a good head on their shoulders, they can play very well. Enter RG3.
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 16, 2011 11:01 AM CST up reply actions
That was NOT well-written
Here’s a summary: Heismann Trophy winners can be productive in the pros as long as thy don’t have a history of getting injured and they also have a good head on their shoulders. RG3 has both qualities.
by Chiefs4Life on Dec 16, 2011 11:04 AM CST up reply actions
I don't want him, but only because he already has concussion issues and may not last long in the NFL
RGIII had 1 from the late hit last year
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:15 PM CST up reply actions
If one of the top 3 QBs aren't available
then I think we should either trade back, and I know that is easier said than done, or draft best available(hopefully a tackle) and look for someone like Tanehill, Cousins or the kid from Arizona in the Second/Third round. I don’t think we should trade up because even though talent wise we are better we still have too many holes to fill to give up draft picks and reach for a QB.
I think this would be the year to trade up
A-we are picking high, next year we could win the West with our IR’d players back, putting us in the 20s with still no QB
B-Shouldn’t cost a lot to move up
C-We do have a solid team, a G/RT can be found later in the draft.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
I think it will cost a bit to move up
If the order stays the same; there are teams above that would be willing to trade, rams, vikes, and panthers but right nowe they are sitting at the 2,3 and 5 picks in the draft. I really think Seattle will look to move up especially if Luck and RG3 or Barkley are gone by Pick 5 as I expect 2 of 3 will be. It could still cost quite a bit to trade up. I agree that a we have a solid team with our IR guys back and would not mind swapping something like a first round pick and giving up a 2 or 3 if we could get RG3 or Barkley but I think it is going to cost more than that. Agree with C but if a top tier tackle is available you have to take him over someone like Landry Jones.
Well yes I wouldn't take Jones over Martin or Reiff, hell I would take DeCastro before Jones
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
However...
I do agree IF we are going to look at trading up this will hopefully be a better year than next year to trade up.
RG3
I would love to have luck on our team but the price will be way to high, so I’m hoping we can some how some way get RG3, he would be a great fit. IMO!!!!
by albuquerquechiefsfan on Dec 16, 2011 10:43 AM CST via mobile reply actions
We won't draft a QB in the first round
Unless maybe Barkley or RG3 magically fall to us.
We’ll hire McD in some capacity, keep his choice between Cassel & Orton, with Stanzi as the backup. This draft will address the OL, ILB & Safety (for depth), and then in ‘13 we’ll either roll with Stanzi or go for a franchise QB in the draft.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Except if we win the West next year and pick in the 20s again
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
I think we'd trade up once the other pieces are in place
If they see someone they really like
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
y'all are funny ... *
(angelic smile)
*Steve_in_RI – not you, of course! you’re all serious, but everyone else is funny
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yeah.. well your funny looking!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
nah.. he smells funny.. like old blue cheese...
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 11:14 AM CST up reply actions
The Browns
Would be foolish to take a QB. Colt McCoy is good and they have too many other holes. If the Brown do take a quarterback, we should trade for McCoy (assuming one is not available for us to draft). That means that only the Colts (Luck), Redskins (Barkley/Griffin), and Dolphins (Barkley/Griffin/Jones) will probably pick quarterbacks ahead of us. Essentially that leaves us with Landry Jones if we don’t trade up. Jones is just simply no good. So what are our options?
First of all, we could trade for Manning. Manning certainly has a couple years left (at least) and he can groom Stanzi or someone we may pick up in later rounds (Tyler Wilson – Ark, Russel Wilson – Wisc, Weeden – OkSt).
Second of all, we could see if anyone makes a crazy move and grabs a quarterback while they still have a good one on their roster (I’m looking at you, Jacksonville). If the Jags pull the trigger on Griffin, then we should probably look to trade for Gabbert. He is young and has all the tools.
In either situation, I don’t think we are going to get our quarterback of the future in the first round of this draft without giving up quite a bit. What I think we need to do is trade back to the mid 1st round and pick up Burfict, who is the next Ray Lewis. Get a good 2nd-3rd round quarterback and try and develop him. If Tyler Wilson, Russel Wilson, or Brandon Weeden come out, they all would be available in round 2 and would all be solid pickups. If we can snag a hall of famer like Manning via trade, that would probably be a wise choice as well, because he could then groom our youngster. Think of it… Burfict in round 1, Tyler Wilson in round 2, nose tackle help in round 3, then offensive line for the rest of the draft (haha), and trade next year’s 1st or 2nd rounder for 2-3 years of Manning at the helm. Dream come true.
by Brett Chamberlain on Dec 16, 2011 11:15 AM CST reply actions
I wouldn't call Colt McCoy good
but with a good running game he would lead winning teams that can break into the playoffs.
Can see the Browns going with RB or trading down again, they have traded down consistently
for the past 3 seasons.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Dec 16, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
We should take Kellen Moore
Not only do we not have to lose any assets by trading up, I think he’ll be the best QB from the draft. If he was three four inches taller, he would definitely be taken in the first round. And he’s the most winningest QB, and he has been studying tape since he was six years old. Extremely accurate.
by andrew33 on Dec 16, 2011 11:15 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
This and we would have to take him in the second
where Pioli seems to waste picks. So we will see
by readANDgold58 on Dec 16, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
If we dont take a QB in the first
1. I will be supremely pissed. More than any other time in my Chiefs fandom lifetime
2. IF we dont take a QB then we better take Burfict from Arizona State
I HOPE WE WIN OUT, but
I have a feeling we will fall short to the Packers and Raiders…I hope we murder the Broncos and piss all over their playoff dreams!!!!
So say we finish 6 – 10….
Have the remaining games of those teams in front of us been evaluated? Those six-teams in front of us with 4-wins now, a few of those could win 2-games. Only Indy is guaranteed their current draft spot. It is possible that the Vikings & the Rams could win out….
So this unfortunate race we are in isn’t over yet…I think we will end in the top 6.
Clark Hunt & Pioli, get some KING KONG BALLS and move up to draft a QB in the 1st RD of the 2012 NFL Draft: RG3, Luck, Jones, or Barkley.
Follow me @ChiefsatWar (Twitter)
If we don't take a QB, we will take an offensive lineman...
Meaning either Orton or Cassel will be are QB, and we will try to protect them next year…Hopefully replacing Barry Awful Richardson first!
Clark Hunt & Pioli, get some KING KONG BALLS and move up to draft a QB in the 1st RD of the 2012 NFL Draft: RG3, Luck, Jones, or Barkley.
Follow me @ChiefsatWar (Twitter)
by ChiefsatWar on Dec 16, 2011 11:25 AM CST up reply actions
Never want a loss...
But Top 6 would be nice. We have a tough schedule remaining but with two of those three being against the donkey’s and faiders we could win both of those and finish at 7-9 or 8-8 if we play really inspired and the Packers look at us like a bye week.
What to look for
I want a QB with a lot of college starts, about 30 or more. With a very good completion , about 65 or or more. With a very good TD-INT ratio. And who makes good decisions under pressure.
I don’t want us taking any QB who doesn’t fit that profile. Which QBs coming out this year fit that profile?
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 16, 2011 11:48 AM CST reply actions
We have him already...
PASSING STATISTICS
Year Lge Team Age # GP Comp Att % Yds TD INT TD% INT% Y/G Y/A RAT
2007 NCAA Iowa Hawkeyes 20 0 1 0 4 0.0 0 0 1 0.0 25.0 0.0 0.0 -50.0
2008 NCAA Iowa Hawkeyes 21 0 13 150 254 59.1 1956 14 9 5.5 3.5 150.5 7.7 134.8
2009 NCAA Iowa Hawkeyes 22 0 11 171 304 56.3 2417 17 15 5.6 4.9 219.7 8.0 131.6
2010 NCAA Iowa Hawkeyes 23 13 221 345 64.1 3004 25 6 7.2 1.7 231.1 8.7 157.6
NCAA Totals 38 542 907 59.8 7377 56 31 6.2 3.4 194.1 8.1 141.6
http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=1204701
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
that's good stuff
I’m glad we have Stanzi. I think he’ll get his shot in the last two games so we can start to see what he’s got.
We can keep him and also bring in another QB this year though.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 16, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions
Guess you wouldn't want Brady then huh
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:16 PM CST up reply actions
Nope, you don't draft Brady in the first round
You can get a guy like that in the 6th, no problem.
I’m sure everyone with college numbers like Brady’s turns out just like Brady, too.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 16, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Actually Brady does not fit your mold, so you wouldn't ever look to draft him
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 5:28 AM CST up reply actions
No what I wouldn’t do is go looking for more quarterbacks just like Brady, who fit his college profile, certainly not with a high draft pick. If you want to take a 6th round flyer on a guy like that, when you already have a fairly young top 3 pick starting at QB who has already taken you to the Super Bowl, then sure, take a guy like that. Just expect him to fail, like most players of that profile do. You can try to obscure that by focusing on the outlier if you want, but it doesn’t change that reality.
What I wouldn’t do is spend a high draft pick on a QB of the future who doesn’t fit that profile that I talked about. Since this thread is about the Chiefs doing exactly that, that’s why I put that profile out there. That’s the kind of QB of the future I would look for with a high pick.
Since you keep talking about the outlier, one-in-a-million shot who came through, it seems like you would spend a high pick on a QB who didn’t start for his college team and who every other team had 6th round or lower on the draft board, and hope he turns into the next Tom Brady. I don’t think that’s a good plan and don’t agree that that’s what the Chiefs should be doing.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 17, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions
What I would do is watch tape and see what I think about him
Screw the mold, even though its from Parcells.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 9:33 AM CST up reply actions
Not much tape on a guy who didn't play much in college
That’s one reason why you have a better shot on being right on a QB who has played a lot of games, you see him in more situations against more competition. He’s likely to have to have dealt with more in-game adversity, and you’re more likely to have seen him at both his best and worst, and seen if he’s actually grown as a player year by year, what he’s improved at an what he hasn’t.
A QB’s decision-making is hugely important for me, especially quick decision-making under pressure, and the more decisions he’s actually had to make in game conditions, the better shot you have of evaluating how good he is at it.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 17, 2011 10:14 AM CST up reply actions
You don't always need 3+ years of tape
Nor does every QB get that chance to start 3+ years. Depending on the system/conference you can shrink down the requirements by the system they play, the routes the WRs throw, etc
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
The more information, the better
Especially when you are trying to evaluate something as hard to figure as decision-making under pressure. You see a guy in different situations, with his team in different seasons, it’s easier to get a more precise handle on it and to have more confidence in what you’re getting.
You invest a high pick for a QB, you need to be right, and the more info you have on him the better shot you have to be right.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 17, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't say the QB had to be a high pick
I am saying that an old metric to judge QBs is not something I go by.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 3:31 PM CST up reply actions
This thread is about who we would take if we spent an early round pick on a QB. We already have a late-round young QB on the roster.
And I’m saying if we are trying to find a QB of the future in the draft, we’ll probably have to pick one early, and we have a better shot if we draft a guy who fits that profile. You can point out one of the few who made it who didn’t fit, but pointing out an outlier isn’t convincing at all to me. Agree to disagree I guess.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 18, 2011 11:18 PM CST up reply actions
if we don't get a QB this year
I’d love to get Tyler Bray from Tennessee next year. Kid is going to be good in the NFL.
Time to take back the AFC West
Go Chiefs
by King of the Cassel on Dec 16, 2011 11:54 AM CST reply actions
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/501546/tyler-bray
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions
Needs more seasoning
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Dec 16, 2011 12:05 PM CST up reply actions
Yuck
Personally I would rather not draft a QB in the first three rounds unless his name was Luck or Barclay. Case Keenum at Houston would also be an interesting grab (yes I know they lost to USM but he made a lot of great throws in that game that his receivers just didn’t catch).
Matt Kalil from USC is a no brainer if he is available and those guys aren’t. Otherwise I think this is a pretty weak draft class at most positions for us. If we traded down we might get better value at a linebacker to add to the rotation or another DB but who knows.
http://victorypolka.blogspot.com/
That ''Barclay'' guy is gonna be a STUDDDDDDDDDD
Next 10 years worth of draft picks for him!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
Aaron Corp - QB - Richmond (This post is a continuation of one I put up above)
6-3, 205 lbs
Projects as a late rd pick – UDFA.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1244463/aaron-corp
He was named the starter for USC in 2009, but a broken fibula ended that before it could get started. With Matt Barkley poised to take the reigns, Corp decided to transfer out. He went to Richmond where he hasn’t put up amazing stats, and was again visited by the injury bug.
He has shown the ability in the past, but injuries have cut him short. Still, as a 6th or 7th rd pick, he’s worth the interest. Especially with a QB coach like Jim Zorn on the staff.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
The succes of any team starts with a QB that can produce . Start Stanzi the rest of the season trade Cassel and give Orton a one yearcontract.
Trade up with SL which is presently in #2 GET US A GOOD QBknow all genie.
sl presently at the #2 sp
by know all genie on Dec 16, 2011 4:17 PM CST up reply actions
There is no way this team is in a position to be trading up to #2 in the draft.
There is absolutely NO guarantee that any of these QBs will be successful. For every Peyton Manning, there is a Ryan Leaf. Missing on a player like that can set a team back for years. Trading up to do so can set them back twice as long.
OG, C, RT, SILB, TE, S, and FS all have to be addressed. Each position either needs an upgrade at starter or better depth.
This team is NOT one player away from a Super Bowl. So we need to keep working towards that.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Dec 16, 2011 6:36 PM CST up reply actions
David Mims is the retaining wall protecting any new QB the Chiefs bring in.....
A request to the football Gods:
“Please bring the KC Chiefs a stud QB that’s protected by David Mims, for without protection, I’ll be requesting another stud QB next year” “Bless the talents and services of David Mims” “Thank You”
by Big Daddy Booster on Dec 16, 2011 1:35 PM CST reply actions
Forget about getting another QB
According to Nick Wright’s sources within the organization, and their goooooood sources, Pioli is tied to Cassel, and so I’m guessn that he will go down in flames with “Woody” (look at Woody from Toy Story, and then Cassel….they are dead ringers), like a millstone tied around his neck.
Why do you think he wants Mc Dingleberry to come to KC so badly? He is convinced that Cassel can be fixed.
“There are none so blind, as those who will not see.”
Just because a QB is drafted doesn't mean he's gonna play year 1
Cassel only has 1 year left on the contract. Draft RG3,let Cassel get crushed next year, put RG3 in with 4 games left on the season.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Dec 16, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
Right, but.....
What I left out of that post, was the fact that because Pioli is tied to Cassel, he has no interest in drafting another QB this year.
I think the man is certifiably nuts…….blinded by his on ego. Lounging on the deck of the SS Cassel, which is taking on more water with each game Cassel starts…..
So wait.. you heard from a guy who has a guy that might be in a position to hear something about something at sometime
Ok no more QB talk folks!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
Do you have any info on the quality of the source, or are you taking Nick's word for it?
I’m not saying you or Nick is wrong, just curious.
Uh, no.....
That’s why they are called un-named sources. Nick might be kind of a douche, but one thing I’ll give him credit for, he has developed more inside relationships than the other guys in radio in this town.
We will see if his “sources” are right as this thing plays out, but do you really think what he is reporting is that far fetched, given what we’ve experienced with Egoli so far in his tenure?
The only hope we have, IMHO, is if “the Clarks” intervene at draft time, and tell him he WILL draft RG3 or whatever potential franchise QB might be available. I truely believe that a guy like Don Pioli will take us down in flames, in an effort to prove he was right about Cassel. And I know there are a lot of fans out there that feel the same as I do.
But, I’ll be delighted if I am wrong about all of this!
Anyone can claim they have a 'source'
If they do not name them, then I won’t believe what was said.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 17, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
What I don't get
is that everyone last year during the draft seemed pretty excited to get Stanzi. (and now having seen Palko play and remembering “the Croyle”, I see why). If he was worth drafting, then we should play him and see what he can do, and not just in the pre-season. If we lose to the Packers, our slim playoff hopes are done. Start stanzi vs. the Raiders and the Tebowites and let’s see what he can do. If he looks awful, then think QB first round, and trade up to get him. If Stanzi looks great, then we keep him and offer Orton a 1-yr deal to sit on the bench behind him, and draft a project in the late rounds. Cut Palko and trade Cassel. If I ever see Palko in red and yellow again after this season, I may have to rethink my fandom…
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 16, 2011 2:54 PM CST reply actions
Or we start Orton because he is on a 1 year deal and we have to see what he can do for us
Stanzi has several years left to prove what he can or can not do for us.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
QB
A teams succes with a QB that can produce. Start Stanzi the rest of the season . trade Cassel,sign Orton to a 1 year contract. Trade up draft picks with SL which presently holds the #2 pick. know all genie . Would this make me general mgn of the year.
Doubt Orton would sign a 1 year deal here when he could prolly still get a multiyear starter deal
What is Cassel going to net us? Why not keep him instead and let Orton walk.. gain the extra comp pick in the process
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 16, 2011 5:38 PM CST up reply actions
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