Starting anyone other than Stanzi is a complete waste of time!
by jshep68 on Dec 14, 2011 1:17 PM CST
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I hate to break it to you Chiefs fans but this team is no where near Super Bowl level and nothing will illustrate the maddening mindset of the Chiefs front office more that playing Orton this weekend.
Contrary to popular belief the goal of a professional football team should not be to try to win each week. It’s to win 1 week, in the case of the NFL the 1st week in February.
Every, let me repeat EVERY move the Chiefs make should be an answer to the question “Does this help us get to and win the Super Bowl?” Now let ask you Chiefs fans, when they acquired Orton is that what you thought “Super Bowl here we come?” If so could you please share what you’ve been smoking, it would have helped some of us watching Palco the last few weeks.
The only issue for the Chiefs right now is talent evaluation so they can go into the draft next year with at least informed decisions. I have no idea if Stanzi can play, but more importantly, neither do they. How is starting a journeyman qb that most likely won’t be with the team next year going to help? What’s the end game? I don’t see it.
Well I take that back, I do see it, it’s to sell seats and make money. You see to go with Stanzi or RGIII for that matter would mean a commitment to ‘rebuilding’, the word which must never be spoken. You see most rebuilding teams lose games, a lot of them. Peyton Manning 3-13, Cam Newton (who statically is having a better year) is 4-9 so far.
Even looking at Tom Brady, and Big Ben , the exceptions to this rule a fair evaluation of their games (when both reached the Super Bowl) would suggest they looked a lot more like Mark Sanchez does than the players we know today.
Losing teams play in front of half empty stadiums, period. That (not failing to get to the Super Bowl) is the outcome the Hunt’s fear the most.
So here we are again Chiefs fans at the end of another season without a sniff of the tile at a familiar crossroad. Which option will they choose?
1) Play the kid, if we have something use the draft to build around him and be patient with the process, or if he can’t play use the draft to get our franchise guy and be patient with the process
2) Start the journeyman, try to get to 8-8 and convince the suckers (fans) that we’re just 1 or 2 players away.
If they start Orton you’ll have your answer.
** One last note, I know, I’m one of the suckers. We’ve had season tickets in the family since 67. Why? My dad wanted to make sure my brother and I got to see pro football, even if your team was terrible. Looking back on it, I’m glad I can say I got to see the likes of Stabler, Fouts, Marino, Montana and Elway. Now that I have a son I want him to remember seeing Romo, Rivers, Big Ben, hell even Tebow. So no, I wont be giving up my tickets but I may be able to soon show him another proud football tradition, the brown paper bag!
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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I'm not one to get involved like shit like this but...
Couldn’t this just be a comment in one of the numerous starting QB posts. Shit like this just pushes creative things like Brodie’s Haley haiku post off the list.
AP mouth breather’s
Comment disguised as Fan Post
Hides good haiku thread
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Dec 14, 2011 1:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Nah I agree with him...
The MILLION posts a day that are all about the same thing are getting really old. Nobody here is gonna make their big sports journalism break by writing a fanpost about the Chiefs’ need to start a new QB, considering everyone and their mother is doing the same thing. I kinda think if you wanna share your opinions on it, do it in the comments of a fanpost that already exists. The fanpost and fanshot boards are hard to navigate with a million posts, and the good ones get pushed down before anyone can actually see them on the front page.
This
This is why I hardly visit Arrowhead Pride…far too cluttered for my tastes.
Bobby Hill: What's a meat examination team?
Hank Hill: It's like a debate team, only instead of doing something useless you get to grade the cut and quality of meat!
Awwwww yeeeaaahhhh, thought I smelled a Haiku challenge
Yo…Yo…..ugh….check it…
Romeo’s Mustache
Sprinkled with Salt and Pepper
Don’t shave for no man
Don’t want McKidFace
Then again we could do worse
“Your new coach Bill Muir!”
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Agree completely with H2E
This has been said just too many times.
by old_school on Dec 15, 2011 10:10 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Uh.. who is Palco?
So you say that teams should make decisions about playing who gives them the best chance to win EACH week.. yet somehow a 5th round pick who could not beat out Palko is supposed to be the best chance to win over a vet who has plenty of experience? Ok… maybe you should hand over whatever you are smoking to the rest of us
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
to be honest, I've wanted to see Stanzi just to see what he's got ... or hasn't got
but with the “he’s not ready yet” that we kept hearing I kept thinking “ok fine, maybe he was a mistake to draft to begin with” …
now, as for Orton: I have ZERO issue with him starting this week and every week, to see what HE can do, because it MIGHT come down to a choice between Orton and Cassel for next year, regardless of who is or isn’t drafted … and I want to see what Orton can or can’t do before handing the keys of the car over to Cassel again (he wrecked it last time and the insurance company is going to cancel our coverage if he gets into another wreck)
don’t bogart that joint, my friend, pass it to me …
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Was kind of my line of thought as well.
Why did we pick up Orton if you aren’t going to play him at all? Stanzi can develop in OTA’s and training camp, like he should. Need to get the goods on Orton to see if he is worth a contract offer. There are also players on offense playing for jobs next year that won’t benefit from having a rookie throwing th ball. I’m not sure anyone on the Chiefs is sold on a big contract for Bowe yet. He could use some good catches against quality opposition for a change. Baldwin needs a professional QB to throw some catchable balls as well.
I've lost a lot of interest in Stanzi from seeing Palko play and then hearing he is not ready to play
and the massive love for him on AP. I have said several times I want him to play, but in no way does that make the most sense when factored into the OP of ‘playing who gives us the best chance to win’ statement.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 4:20 PM CST up reply actions
I think we'd all like to see what the kid's got, especially since - lip service notwithstanding - they're writing this season off.
would of ≠ would've
I have no problems watching tape on Stanzi, will be one of the few recent games I would record.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
The same folks who told us Stanz was not ready....
did not think Gaither could contribute. Same folks don’t seem to see much value in McClain as a blocker or runner or Rec’r out of backfield. Same folks thought three heads were better than on at play calling. Same folks did not see a need for preseason.
Besides, Because Stanzi is a mere rookie he could not possibly….
….Avoid tacklers and extend plays like Cassel.
….Avoid interceptions & turnovers as well as Palko.
….Avoid injuries as well as Orton.
Why play a rookie when we have done so well with alternatives. Besides it might create a QB controversy. (Note: Tongue firmly in cheek.)
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
by CatChief on Dec 14, 2011 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
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I'm not bringing or talking about the Gaither situation anymore, I've stated my opinion ont hat enough
McClain does block, does catch, how much does he offer over Battle though?
There were only 2 heads calling plays IIRC from Muir to Zorn to QB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 6:01 PM CST up reply actions
Cutting distinctions too fine tends to ruin the ranting hyperbole.
The point is that we have had offensive tools that were not being used to best advantage.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
He isn't smoking anything
We do need to start a rookie so that we can potentially find a diamond in the rough and then use our top 10 pick (currently 11) to draft the best lineman (offense or defense) available.
I agree with that, im just not so sure it depends on stanzi starting this year
Play Stanzi/Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
goota see what he can do
Remember all this talk about evaluating players? Can’t see that theres a better time to do it. Okay so we are not mathmatically eliminated, we will be after Sunday. Let’s see what the kid can do,.. if he’s a Croyle, a Brady, something in between? Let’s find out, give the kid a chance to sink or swim.
(currently 12)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 4:18 PM CST up reply actions
this whole "could not beat out Palko" gets a bit annoying.
then you go on to bash haley for his decisions
maybe this was haley’s biggest failure, failing to play the rookie.
ive seen NOWHERE that palko was outplaying stanzi
even in the preseason, it was clear to anyone with decent vision that stanzi had more pocket presence and poise than palko has ever had combined throughout his entire career. Palko cant make t hrows that stanzi can
so unless stanzi dropped every center to QB exchange, Id say there wasnt really much competition going on
and btw, once at 3rd string, the qb gets literally zero to no reps.
Play Stanzi/Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
by SDChief on Dec 14, 2011 4:05 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So where did I bash Haley?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 4:19 PM CST up reply actions
I agree on the snapshot we had of Stanzi. Not on the BAMF characterization.
You’re probably just reacting to the general tenor of the blog, which is pretty negative, in general.
would of ≠ would've
I want to see Stanzi.
This year is lost so why not put Stanzi in and see what he has, after all he was picked whether it be the 1st round or the 5th they had to see some potential or they wouldn’t got the kid. The point is why start Orton when we have 6 or 7 years of film that shows what he has and none on the rookie. Orton is not a winner, I’ve watched him play his whole career he’s a game manager that can put up good numbers, until the game is on the line. Orton is a numbers guys with a good deep arm that turns over the ball at bad times and Cassel is a average QB who takes care of the ball. Starting Stanzi if he plays well is our best chance for the future, starting Orton is a last ditch effort to get to 8-8 and does nothing for the future of this franchise.
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Except starting Stanzi does not follow what the OP said
OP said that the team should play the players that give them the best chance to win every week, which is Orton, not Stanzi.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 5:28 PM CST up reply actions
But how will we ever know if Stanzi is our best chance to win if he never starts?
So while I agree you start the guy that give you the best chance to win, you have to find out if Stanzi is that guy. Waiting until next year to find out only put us that much further away from knowing.
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Don't have stats handy(I'm sure they are out there somewhere)
I would assume(yes I made an ass out of myself saying assume) that tossing a rookie QB(even earlier drafted ones) out into a game does not give you the best chance to win, especially on a team that has been horrible on offense, has big time injures, going against the last undefeated team and oh the last Super Bowl Champions..
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 5:42 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah maybe Orton gives us a better chance than Stanzi, but how do we really know for sure.
At this point in the season this team should be looking into the future and Orton whether people want to believe it or not is not it.
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In the same line of thinking
How do we know Orton is not it? What have we seen him do with this team? How about when we get Charles and TonyM back.. what could he do then?
Just sayin
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
I've seen what Orton can do, being a old Bears fan when I was a kid I watch the Bears games.
I’ve also watched just about every game he’s played as a Bronco. Orton is and will never be a Franchise QB but when the games on the line he fails just about every time and he sucks in the red zone. So waiting to see what he can do with a healthy Chiefs team can waiting until next year when they’re healthy.
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It's the same case for both Orton and Stanzi
We have no idea what either can do(in Orton’s case we have no idea what he can do with the weapons on the team now/next year), if you make the case to start Stanzi to see what he can do, anyone can make the same case for Orton.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 6:10 PM CST up reply actions
Orton can get hurt he's proved that, Orton can throw picks in the red zone when the games on the line, or he can even fumble the ball when no one is around him.
I’m pretty sure we have no clue towards those subjects about Stanzi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhR4p6fFZBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lINsnwqt1FA
Look at his situational stats here, like in the 4th quarter behind by 7 as well as others http://www.nfl.com/player/kyleorton/2506444/situationalstats
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Again different teams
I’m talking about THIS team.
Did he ever have a WR group like he has now? Nope
Running game? Prolly with our crappy one this year
Defense? Bears=yes
I’m not agreeing to either way, I’m just saying you can make the case for both sides. Orton’s 1 snap is not going to be the judgement here in KC.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 6:24 PM CST up reply actions
So because he's a Chief he's magically a good QB.
I don’t understand why you don’t think Stanzi will be great using that type of theory. I tell you this Orton is not the answer and if we start and keep him you’ll realize that we wasted another year on a team that has talent but a shitty QB.
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If we play Stanzi, doesn't play well
Lose Orton in FA we will never know but still be plagued by shitty QB play. Again I was just going with the other side of the argument(discussion?) you were using, it applies to both. I am willing to watch Stanzi, I have said it many many times.. do I have hopes for the kid? Not so much.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 6:31 PM CST up reply actions
My whole point is about looking to the future of this team.
If Stanzi doesn’t play well we should draft a QB early if he plays well we can use that first pick on another position of need like O-line. If Stanzi plays well, we can let Orton and Cassel fight it out for that job.
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My whole point is that I don't think Stanzi is the future
I know it’s not a popular stance on here, but it is what it is.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 14, 2011 6:40 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying he is the future.
I’m saying find out if he is now instead of wait until next year. If he sucks we draft a QB and if he plays great we don’t it as simple as that, yet this conversation goes in circles and you still can’t understand it.
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Or maybe it's not me who is not understanding it
We could start Stanzi or start Orton, both need playing time, both will require decisions for next year. I’m starting Orton over Stanzi to see what the vet has left in the few games we have him for, to see if he could possibly lead this team. It is that simple, and that is what I said above.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 15, 2011 4:28 PM CST up reply actions
Orton is a sitting duck in the pocket at least with Stanzi you get a guy that can move around and throw on the run.
Orton will get killed behind our o-line if he plays wait and see.
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This is the main chance.
Most of the times I’ve seen Orton fail it was because the OL broke down on him when he had to make a play.
Still, there’s a decent chance that even KC’s woeful offense could achieve some sort of balanced attack against the Packers.
From what teensy bit I’ve seen of Stanzi, I think he has better feet and more escapability than Orton, by far. I just hate to see a developmental player thrust into a role for which he isn’t yet ready. Easy to get a false read from a good young QB on a dysfunctional offense.
OTOH, I think there’s some merit to the “supporting cast” argument in judging Orton, as well. But I don’t see this KC squad necessarily being the answer to Orton’s prayers.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Dec 14, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually, you're changing the argument...
Not saying your argument is wrong (we don’t know what Orton can do with OUR offense), but it is a different one that you’re interjecting into the original argument.
The argument is: we have not seen Stanzi play in AN NFL GAME, and now that the season is lost, we should see what the ROOKIE has got.
Which is different than ‘we should see how he looks with our offense.’
And that’s why the argument keeps going. I want to see what Orton can do with the Chiefs because he may be an upgrade over Cassel, whether that means he is playing to be the #2, which I’m not sure he’d re-sign to do, or starting. I also want to see the possible long-term solution—how Stanzi looks—as potential starting QB.
We know what Palko can do. We know what Orton can do (though he is a bit of an anomaly)….but we don’t jknow what Stanzi can do. period. And we don’t know what either Orton or Stanzi look like running the offense.
I’d like to see Orton start. If he keeps it competitive, he plays the game until its a blowout. If it isn’t within 17-21 Pts at half, Stanzi plays. Repeat until season is over…
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Dec 15, 2011 5:11 PM CST up reply actions
I do not believe that is true at all
We have NO idea what Orton can do on THIS team, I don’t care what he did 3 or 30 years ago. I want to know what he can do NOW.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 15, 2011 5:21 PM CST up reply actions
Why dont you allow everyone to see orton for themselves in a Chiefs uniform instead running a smear campaign against the guy. What did he do to you ?
by Willie Beamon on Dec 14, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Orton has had chances now for 2 teams, whats it take for people too see what he brings to the table?
Do you get my point or is it over your head? I don’t think I can simple it down anymore than I have.
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The thing about Orton on those other teams was he did some good things, but couldn't perform miracles.
That Chicago situation wasn’t all that great. I keep forgetting the Dallas reject who’s their best WR, now, plus a converted return man. And not much done on OL. They just added a QB who COULD perform miracles, in Jay Cutler, who looked pretty awesome for as long as he held up physically. I’m not sure how good/bad Hanie is, beyond not being good enough to put the Chicago offense over the top.
I’m pretty sure of what Orton brings, and I saw pretty much just that on the field on Sunday. I think it’s entirely possible that more aggressive defenses have us making less friendly comparisons to Cassel and have us wanting to bring in Stanzi for a look. But, for now, it’s refreshing to see a QB who makes all the throws when given a chance, and that our o-line and WRs gave him good chances, but it was against a struggling defense, and the KC defense matched-up amazingly well against the Jennings-less Packers.
would of ≠ would've
Heh
Soo, you are saying Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin and Tony M are not miles ahead as far as talen for Orton to work with then say Mark Bradley, Grig Olsen, D Hester and Bernard Berrian. That is the best rec. corp he has had to work with prior to being with the chiefs and he did pretty dam well with them whenever the Bears would actually start him and you should remember that very well as a bears fan
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
Oh yea
The bears also thought Eddie Kennison and Casey Wigman where busts but they did OK here in KC too. give the guy a shot. I personally dont think that there is any chance we wont see Stanzi this year if Orton comes out and sticks it up
**Heres to 5 err 4 more years of JC!!!!**
We've got Cassel
We’ve got Hunt,..We will have to pay Cassel 4.5 mil next year regardless of whether we want him or not barring trade. Orton is the same statistically as Cassel. So lets evaluate the rook to see what we have here. Hunt is not going to pay both of these guys, nor should he. Drafting a qb is paramount if this kid is a PalCroyle
This is short-sighted thinking...at some point, there has to be a balance between thinking short-term and long-term
And at 5-8 I think we’ve definitely reached that point.
That said, I have no problem with Orton starting GB…we should see him play. He isn’t that far removed from being a successful QB.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Dec 15, 2011 5:00 PM CST up reply actions
You are a walking talking contradiction
by Willie Beamon on Dec 14, 2011 7:37 PM CST up reply actions
If you can't understand the point im trying make whats that make you.
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Your point is ridiculous youve basically have claimed to be an Orton expert and haveslandered the guy as if hes done something personally to you
The fact is that youve already decided that Orton wont play well and thus every opinion youve given so far is based on Orton playing bad before he has actually played .
You claimed Orton wasnt a winner but he won with the bears
You claimed him a game manager
but then said hes a numbers guy
again your contradicting yourself and I really dont understand why which is why I asked if it was personal or something because Ive never seen anyone go on a situational stat rant based on what someone else did on another team.
Now that Stanzi is up to #2 well he will get a chance to prepare a little bit better and Im sure Orton and Cassell can help him with that . However why put him out there if you dont even know who the coach or what the system will be ?
Contrary to the chicken little approach Stanzis future shouldnt be tied to the final 3 games of a lost season . If anything he actually shouldnt play at all and then the NEXT COACH should be allowed to determine what he can do AFTER A FULL OFFSEASON IN WHICH TO WORK WITH HIM .
by Willie Beamon on Dec 15, 2011 3:19 AM CST up reply actions
You know, it's entirely possible that everyone understands the point you're trying to make.....
….and they STILL disagree with your logic.
Stanzi is a box of Legos with a picture of a Star Wars X-Wing fighter on the front.
He’s a collection of parts that (no offseason, no work with the first team) haven’t been assembled yet.
Toss him to the kids to play with, and they’re going to have parts break off, lose valuable pieces needed to complete the build, and the kids are going to end up with a “too quick to judge” negative attitude about the toy because they got their hands on it before it was even assembled.
Zorn is the QB coach… it’s his job to develop and evaluate the QB’s and let the HC/OC know if he thinks they are ready. I’ve not read or seen ANYTHING that would suggest that Zorn has given his ‘ready to play’ stamp for Stanzi that Haley just flat out ignored. Now Haley’s GONE… and Romeo has 3 short weeks (with one of them against an undefeated team) to show that he has the ability to turn the team around and stay on as the head coach.
And guess what…. Romeo apparently doesn’t think Stanzi is ready either. It sounds to me like Romeo is going to hope and pray that Orton can start (even adjusting to a lot of shotgun if he has to in order to make that happen) because he doesn’t think Stanzi should be tossed in there as the starter yet either.
Your point.. is that the team needs to find out if they need to go after a #1 QB NOW.. or if they can concentrate on other areas this year. Where I would disagree would be to say that maybe the coaches feel they already KNOW that answer… and maybe the coaches think that putting him in now would be the exact wrong thing to do… because the potential negative effects it would have on his development outweigh the chances he has to succeed. Maybe Zorn and Romeo and Pioli really do believe in the kid, and want him to get a fair shot… and that tossing him in now is the exact opposite of giving him a fighting chance.
I think we all understand your point. You want to see Stanzi play. Great… I’d like to see him play too, but not if it means ruining him, getting him killed because he does not possess the toolkit yet to play behind a bad protection, or destroying his confidence at a time when (even if he manages to win a game) won’t do any good for the team.
If Stanzi starts he next 3 games and won ALL THREE of them… do we really know enough about Stanzi to say we don’t need to go after a QB in the first round? Won’t a new head coach (if we get one) want to bring in “his guy” at QB…. just like almost every new head coach tries to do right away? What new coach is going to hitch his wagon to a 5th round player that never got in the game until the final 3 weeks after the team was out of the playoffs?
It wouldn’t matter one way or the other on Stanzi’s play what we do at the QB position in the draft. Not at all.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Dec 15, 2011 3:20 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
"Doesn't posses the toolkit to play behind bad protection"
If you believe that then you didn’t see the pre-season, he had absolutely zero protection and showed poise.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Dec 15, 2011 1:52 PM CST up reply actions
he was the worst QB in the pre-season.. I watched every game multiple times
the BEST QB in pre-season was Tyler Palko….
Which just goes to show that you shouldn’t try to judge a players worth in the preseason.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Palko was the best in Pre-season? I'm speechless by that conclusion.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Dec 15, 2011 5:14 PM CST up reply actions
then you didn't watch the pre-season games very closely
because Palko moved the offense down the field, and had better control than Cassel or Stanzi.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
If hes a China doll
Like Croyle, then lets find out that as well. I don’t want to set the kid up for failure, but when do you decide to give the kid a shot? I didn’t see Palko go down, he played in a pro style offense, so lets see what hes got. We know what we have in Orton, we’ve him, not good not bad, just so-so
we've got Stanzi under contract for 4 years..and no matter how well or badly he plays...
…we’ll STILL have too small of a sample size of his play to change our offseason QB plans with regard to his future with the team.
Orton, on the other hand, has no contract beyond this year. The team has got to find out if he’s a better short term solution than say.. Cassel.. as the veteran QB on the roster.
Orton has never played for the Chiefs, and we DON’T know what we have in him (contrary to the statements otherwise). We’ve got 2 unknowns here. One of them has a multi year contract and isn’t going anywhere. The other has no contract at all, starting experience, and has won games in the NFL.
Which one gives us the better chance to WIN games today? Obviously, the answer is Orton.
Romeo Crennel is playing for the job here, not to satisfy fanboy curiosity. The coaches have a MUCH better idea of what Stanzi is/is not… based off working with him every day. The only people in the dark are the fans. And the only thing that Crennel and the Chiefs PLAYERS care about is winning games and keeping their spot’s on the roster.
From a fan perspective… playing Stanzi might seem like the best course of action, but to the 53 guys and staff of coaches on the roster the most important thing is winning games to try and secure themselves a job in 2012. If Zorn doesn’t think Stanzi is ready to start, and 53 guys on the team want to WIN so they can continue providing for their families next season… I’m inclined to give the benefit of the doubt to the players and coaches over the fans that want to “see what we have”.
There are enough years on Stanzi’s deal that we’re going to get to see what we have in him soon enough. It doesn’t have to be this week vs. the Packers.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
I think we DO know what we have in Orton.
What we saw was that that known is good enough to consistently move the KC offense, which was an unknown. What we saw was that Cassel HAS been a weak link in the offense.
would of ≠ would've
Palko
Was Stanzi even given a chance by Haley. The only tyime I noticed Stanzi being in a game was with the 3rd stringers, Palko was given a chance with the first unit.
Maybe Haley wasn’t playing the kid to spite Pioli, who knows. But to say the kid isn’t any good because he was picked in the 5th round is ludicrous at best. You probably hated Brady because he was a 5th rd draft choice.
And Palko was benched this week
Of course that doesn’t say anything at all…
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Dec 15, 2011 1:47 PM CST up reply actions
Devil's Advocate
I’d like to see Stanzi play too,
but one reason they might play Orton is to try and give Baldwin some NFL experience with a QB who can throw the ball… help to further his development
doubtful, they wont change their QB just to give baldwin a shot. they have 5 years of baldwin.
Play Stanzi/Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
they have 5 years of Stanzi too
so whats the rush?
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
Stanzi can throw the ball, do people not realize he's a damn QB.
It pisses me off that just because this kid was a 5th round pick he’s completely over looked. Stanzi has a strong desire to win, he a good team leader, and if he starts you’ll see his fire. Starting Orton might give us a better chance to win, but does nothing for the future of this team. Orton is not a franchise QB and he’ll never be one. Lets move on from this trend of use teams discarded back-ups and develop Stanzi or draft one early. Starting Stanzi only helps this team in the long run and who we pick in next years draft.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
We're in evaluation mode.
I know that evaluating Stanzi is important, but I would contend that evaluating everyone else is more important. There’s plenty of time to evaluate your third string QB. He may be 2nd string next year, and he’s under contract. Plenty of time. Not so true when you’re talking many of the other guys.
Gotta get a competant NFL QB to evaluate talent. Stanzi can wait for now.
Stanzi is 2nd string
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Dec 15, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
the packers are hungry to go 16-0. I am a major stanzi homer(that lives nowhere near iowa)
but cmon….this is not the time to all of a sudden start him ,with the coaching change as well…let this play out with orton this week, if he struggles, dont be s hocked to see stanzi take some reps away from him the following week.
Play Stanzi/Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
The game will get out of hand in the 2nd half, and Ricky will play.
I’m fairly confident that will happen.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 14, 2011 4:18 PM CST reply actions
Yep, Romeo isn't that stupid.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 14, 2011 4:39 PM CST up reply actions
was Haley even attempting to develop Stanzi?
i haven’t read or heard that he was or wasn’t. but, i can see how not attempting to work or develop a player that the front office and scouts were so high on, could cause some tension.
I thought that myself
Stanzi should’ve been involved more on the sidelines, but they had him doing nothing.
Warning: If you're reading this it has been censored.
Disclaimer: Comments above are not meant to be taken with a grain of salt.
i imagine (using my made-up theory that Haley wasn't developing Stanzi) Haley was annoyed that not only did he have to continue to develop Cassel
but then had to develop Cassel’s backup at the same time. that would be frustrating. Haley made his bones with a QB that didn’t need any kind of development (Warner) and honestly, if KC had one of those, i bet he’d still have his job.
high on?
they were so high on Stanzi that they waited until the 5th round to take him.
They liked his potential, but they didn’t have him graded as a starter… he’s a developmental guy.
And that’s what they are doing… developing him.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
yes, they were.
in War Room it was written that the two top KC scouts, Nagy and Embry were so high on Stanzi that Pioli tried to trade up for him 3 times because he thought that Chan Gailey was going to make a move for him. so, yeah, if Haley wasn’t making the effort to develop Stanzi, which is not out of the realm of possibilities, it would make the situation between the HC and the FO tense.
And they turned down trade offers for their 5th round pick, including a 4th rounder for 2012
So, attempting to trade up for Stanzi, turning down trade down scenarios which would have meant more picks for KC, is a pretty good sign they were enamored with Stanzi. A player they wanted, great draft position, it’s a win-win.
They only people who seemed to be concerned about his draft position are the fans.
by Dr.WalterBishop on Dec 15, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Let's look for examples
Green bay last year. They had to play the patriots. The head coach said, we are nobodys underdog. Played Flynn, and nearly won the game. In the process, instilled a ton of belief in his team, won the super bowl. Heck people this year think Flynn is the next kolb. Let’s try stanzi and find out for ourselves.
Love the Chiefs, Hawkeyes, Golf (Obviously) and my wife and kids. Not in that order.
TJ Yates won an important game with Texans this year.
He was drafted after Stanzi.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
It will be interesting to see....
how Orton does, just, if nothing else, to see how a proven veteran QB does behind the Chiefs OL. If he is healthy and does well then Cassel can pack his bags because he’s run out of excuses.
It’s always been my opinion that Cassel has been our biggest problem and without any competition he was our only option.
I am here to answer those who mock me scorn for scorn.
This is just me
But here is what I would do. I would play Orton if there is any chance at all of retaining him. After all, we already have Stanzi under contract. Because of this, it is more important to evaluate what Orton can do with these receivers.
This is also predicated on still drafting a quarterback in the first round. Trading up or whatever it takes to get one of the top three. I know people are thinking we might have the future in Stanzi. I say screw that, we can do better. We need a true franchise quarterback with the potential to be elite. This ‘draft late and hope’ business we’ve seen for so long is just tired. And if Stanzi actually turns out to be good as well, at least we would have an actual solid depth chart of quarterbacks in the end. I still think it is possible to draft O linemen in the second round or free agency if the front office steps it up for once. But that is just how I would handle it.
by old_school on Dec 15, 2011 10:23 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I bet the Patriots
are happy they started their 6th round pick when Bledsoe went down….Give Stanzi a shot, and see if he can be effective. Not Tom Brady effective, maybe, but just saying.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 15, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions
Brady had a year or 2 to sit though
Along with a much better coaching staff
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 15, 2011 4:31 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, and, as Rodney Harrison reports, Brady had learned to look off the safety and process the pattern
BEFORE he got the nod. He was NOT NFL-ready when he was drafted, and these developments didn’t take place until the offseason after his rookie year.
would of ≠ would've
That kind of misses the point I'm trying to make
We don’t really need to see what Stanzi has right now. I know that’s the most unpopular thing to say at this time, but he is in fact already under contract. We need to evaluate Orton with this system if we have any plans to retain him.
I too want to see what Stanzi can do.
BUT, we had little or really NO training camp, which meant the 4 preseason games were to get our starters the reps they needed to be ready for the season. Stanzi has had little or no reps this whole season, making him about impossible to start. Not that Palko was ready either, clearly. Orton at least started a few games this year, even if it was a couple months ago. Orton’s probably the most ready and should be started, but if he is a total bust or dislocates his finger again on the first play, I hope Romeo will be trotting Stanzi out there. Practices should be 60-40 Orton-Stanzi with Palko as 3rd string. Did any other players play QB, even in HS? They couldn’t be WORSE than Palko. Then again, Palko won one more game than Brody Croyle, and he was our starter for most of a season.
by AnkenyChiefsFan on Dec 15, 2011 1:02 PM CST reply actions
The heart says Stanzi.
The brain says it just makes too much sense to start Orton.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Same
My hopes say Stanzi, because wouldn’t it just be a great story if we FINALLY got that QB, and it turned out he was a 5th round miracle story?
But given the odds of that happening, Orton makes too much sense.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Not the game to start Stanzi
It’s not smart to start a rookie in his first NFL game against a 13-0 team. If it was either Stanzi or Palko, then you could say that you really have no choice, and start Stanzi. But if Orton’s physically able to play, you should start him. If we’re behind by more than 17 points, what the hell the pressure will be off and they’ll be back in a prevent defense, so put Stanzi in then. But not right off the bat against this team.
You want to make it as easy as possible on the rookie, so that he doesn’t get his confidence damaged right away. Give him some sort of chance to succeed. Use him in a game that’s out of hand, or in an emergency situation when he knows we’re not asking him to beat the undefeated Super Bowl champs. It’s going to be hard enough on this kid once he gets in there, it’s best for his development if he isn’t thrown into the fire from the start against this team.
Next week Stanzi should play. Unless we defeat Green Bay, then you stay with the hot hand! LOL.
by Offense of the 70s on Dec 15, 2011 3:04 PM CST reply actions
Still a mistake?
Or was I right? ;)
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
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