The Last Guy Still Supporting the Coach
by Steve_in_RI on Dec 11, 2011 6:09 PM CST
Email
Print
I am keeping this one on the side for now instead of the front page because I am very much going to be writing a subjective piece here. I'll be that guy. I'm going to be on the ship and go down with it, if that is what it will take to have at least one person still be loyal to the guy.
I have a myriad of reasons for doing this. Do I think Todd Haley is infallible and never makes a mistake? Nope, but the things that I read in the comments section are beyond ridiculous. Ultimately the coach does take the brunt of the blame in most cases, but I just cannot understand what some people are thinking before they type on here.
Here we go. Let's start from the beginning of the season. During the preseason, go back to the threads with our preseason predictions for this team. (A team that was fully healthy). The strong schedule argument was tossed around frequently and the MAJORITY of APers had this Chiefs team (fully healthy) with a losing record. FACT. To repeat, the fact that we are 5-8 should not be surprising to anyone because many of you PREDICTED a losing season.
Siler, Moeaki, Berry and Charles go down. Suck for Luck begins. A good portion of the APers wondered if the Chiefs would even WIN A GAME. There were many people who literally did not think the team would win one. They looked at Indy, Minnesota and Miami as our chances.
Then, probably the worst thing happened that could have for Todd Haley. He actually got the boys playing well and they win four in a row. Suddenly everyone forgets their tempered expectations and is now looking at how we could go into the tough part of the schedule at 6-3. Haley's approval level rises, people are happy.
They lose to Miami and Denver. Haley now sucks again. The team is awful. This guy should be fired. Oh, and Matt Cassel got hurt too. Forget that Miami and Denver have played well since then and showed that they don't stink, we lost to those teams at home, Haley is terrible. Look at his record. Ugh we are now 4-5. Even though, the majority of APers thought we would be under .500 and even though we were missing some of our most important players. 4-5 is disgusting and a travesty.
Tyler Palko is now the starter. Go back to the thread where Matt Cassel was announced as injured. You would have thought we captured Bin Laden again. People were ecstatic! Play Palko! Let's see what he can do, even as people who had seen him play warned everyone else that Tyler Palko throws worse than Tim Tebow. They compete well in two straight games at New England and home to Pittsburgh (even though our offense has officially lost any firepower it had left) yet APers act stunned that we lost those games to two division leaders. Not proud of the effort, but stunned that we didn't keep the Pats closer and couldn't beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. The same Pittsburgh Steelers that nobody thought we were going to beat in the first place. Terrible coaching though, for sure, is what kept us from winning those games.
Another bad idea by Todd Haley was going out and winning last week in Chicago. Even though the team won, clearly the genius that is Romeo Crennel summoned the victory from the team despite Todd Haley, who obviously had nothing to do with it. Instead of being proud of the team for going into Soldier Field and beating a Bears team (who is beating Denver at Mile High while I type), APers got greedy again. At 5-7, people were drawing out playoff scenarios, while others were still plotting the move for the next Head Coach. This all despite the fact that even when we were fully healthy, the majority of APers predicted a sub .500 season.
And here we are today. I predicted a Chiefs win because that is what I wanted to happen, not necessarily what I thought would happen. As people were warned, and as everyone has seen, Tyler Palko could not start on my flag football team. People are clamoring for Jackie Battle to get more touches. Yeah, that must be the problem. Because he has shown in ONE game this year that he can be an every down back. Give the ball to McCluster you say? But then the same people turn and call him McFumble. And lastly, the Stanzi saga. Listen, I want to see the kid play. But if they keep sitting him, there is obviously a reason. Only on AP though do you hear that it is because of Todd Haley's stubbornness, his arrogance, and apparent lack of knowledge that Tyler Palko sucks. He is a human being with a brain. I think he gets it. But here in speculation city, as the Chiefs move to 5-8, it must be that Haley has lost his mind and the team has "quit on him" as I read many times today.
Before I am accused of being out of my mind, do not think I am satisfied with the results as they are. The real question here is, what the heck do some of you want from this staff and this team? If after Week 3 people were told we would have 5 wins, there would have been bedlam and nobody would have believed it. I would like to know exactly what Todd Haley and his crew could be doing with this team that would have them better than 5-8. The team missing four of their top eight players, that when healthy wasn't supposed to make the playoffs. What are you all expecting?? I am glad that so many of you are not Indianapolis Colts fans because I am sure you would be expecting them to be in the playoff chase. Because as I read today several times, "stop using injuries as an excuse". Really? As if they stopped mattering after a certain week? Oh but TJ Yates beat the Bengals today. Yes he did. He also has two STUD running backs and close to the number one defense in football. But I suppose it's just because Gary Kubiak had faith in a rookie (even though Yates is not in there by choice).
I literally am at my wits end trying to figure out where perspective is lost here sometimes. What are you seriously expecting when the games are played? We are not good this year. FACT. We were never good this year. FACT. We have holes to be filled and depth to be gained, but are closer than a lot of teams are to being successful. FACT. We have won 5 games with a team that APers thought might top out with 7 or 8 when we HAD a full squad. FACT.
Firing Todd Haley does nothing to help this squad. It does not give us OL depth. It does not give us a franchise QB. It does not give us DL help. All it does is stunt ANY progress we have made and cause the franchise to start over AGAIN when we have core defensive players who are not getting younger and cannot afford a restart. I mean the guy finally showed some fire today with the officials (which people have clamored for all season) and is now being called childish for doing so. It is a lose-lose situation for the staff, Scott Pioli and the players right now because a win generated ridiculous expectations and a loss to a superior team leads to the desire to eliminate anyone and everyone people dislike. If we want to be better, we keep this coach and we focus on the draft and the offseason. Bottom line. So while this was probably a rambling and long fanpost, it is my opinion (and mine only) that we need to get real here and understand we are not good, find out where we can get better, and then DO IT. The complaining and the witch hunts for people's jobs contribute nothing to the team's future success. I'm out.
My disclaimer is I am as mad as all of you, but I apparently view things through glasses that are a very different kind than some that are worn by others here. I respect the opinions of the many that will disagree with me, I just cannot in any way agree with some of the "blow it all up" logic that is prevalent.
Postscript: Todd Haley has been fired. Time to move on.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
296 comments
|
39 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I'm supporting Haley.... untill January 2nd.
Then he needs to be fired…!
Go Chiefs!!!!
I renig....
Good Riddance Haley!
Go Chiefs!!!!
A wreckable Rant
and rec!
everybody wants different things, BUT, to start over again like 2009 is the worst choice we can make.
Hopefully Pioli is THAT guy that gets a little stubborn this season and gives a what for to the sad sack media in Kansas City. Todd Haley is doing exactly what Scott Pioli wants him to do and rather well for a 2-14 team they collectively took over. There is not a golden rainbow out there for the Chiefs to glomb onto. Hard work and dedication to the task at hand will get us where we want to go
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 6:29 PM CST reply actions 9 recs
very wreckable and duly done
btw, it should be noted (edited in post, even) that those same bears eventually lost to the Broncos … and all I can say about that Denver team is “wow, just wow”
so, can we glom onto a Golden Twinkie for now? :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Ya know Ups I'm not/wasn't a Tebow fan
I still believe that his style of play will go the way of the “wildcat” eventually. It can be used, but sporadically and with sporadic positive results once other teams catch on.
However, teams have not done that the last 6 games. So, there isn’t any admonishment on his play by me.
If 42 is the answer to the universe than this quote by Parcell’s is the answer to football:
“You are what your record says you are”
Simple and to the point.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
I hea ya, Brother
I’m not a “fan” myself, but ya gotta respect the dude … and the whole team for that matter
he’s not gonna be playing that streetball forever, just like Elway didn’t play it forever … but the guy is one hell of a competitor and he does seem to lift up that whole team, offense and defense, just with the old ‘rah rah" stuff … whatever it is, it’s working and you can’t knock success
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Dec 11, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The running threats are real enough, he's STILL getting DBs to abandon coverage assignments to come up and tackle him.
And he’s good enough to exploit that un-covering with good passes on the move. Fact is, you DO have to honor the running threats. And as long as he’s tough enough to play that style of football, it’s pretty effective.
Saw just a TINY glimpse of what kind of offense has a chance of working, with Tyler Palko. And it’s somewhat similar to what Denver’s very cleverly doing with Tebow. Don’t know how long the kid would last, but they might be a better offense all-around if it’s more of an “everybody on the move and seize the main chance” sort of thing.
would of ≠ would've
Yeah
theres a reason Stanzis not playing… and Palko is?
This was a must win game for this season, and Haleys decision to leave him in killed our season. There is no reason and no justifications of why the worst QB in the league by far is playing for our team. If we start Stanzi, we’ll know what we have and can draft accordingly. Now we are tanking our season… and putting our defense look terrible in the process because they have to be out there all the time.
One of the worst part of this is that we may just lose Dwayne Bowe because he knows that he won’t ever have the numbers or the wins he deserves as an elite WR. Wouldn’t be surprised that he signs with another team just for the reason that we do not even think of playing a competent QB
Did Curtis Painter Die?
he was RIP 0-11?
at least in a wierd way
Palko is 1-3
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
Are
you watching the same Palko Im watching? There’s no reason to compare Palko to Painter when they both clearly are one of the worst QBs in the league. And using their record to justify that? We won despite Palko against the Bears. I wonder who has a better TD to INT ratio?
I used to support Haley because I thought he was an offensive mastermind, but clearly he is tilting and cannot even seem to recognize that playing stanzi is best for us regardless if he does well or not. But one thing is obvious, no one can do any worse than Palko,and keeping him in after the first quarter shows that Haley is fine with giving up on our season.
I wouldn't have put Stanzi in either
Not against the Jets and certainly not once we were down by so much they basically had a green light to rush the passer the rest of the game. That’s a good way to destroy your rookie’s confidence and possibly get him injured.
Why
not? after their first touchdown, our defense held them to three straight stops. And then the offense kept on shitting their pants, and our defense finally broke. Its not just about the QB, its about the team. What do you think everyone on the defense is thinking for the past few weeks? What do you think Bowe, Baldwin, and Breaston are thinking? Especially when Bowe can leave after this season, its important to show them winning is important for this franchise.
maybe they think stanzi sucks too since they see him in practice every day
i don’t think palko is worth a shit but i don’t think stanzi is either. i almost wish they’d play him to show everyone that he’s not good either
The only players I hurt with my words are the ones who have an inflated opinion of their ability. I can't worry about that.
Bill Parcells
Knowledge is confidence. And confidence lets you play fast.
Bill Parcells
but then we might lose a game and that would be horrible!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I've said before and I still believe it
I don’t think they had any intention of Stanzi seeing the field this year, barring injuries forcing him into action. I think they drafted a guy they feel they might be able to turn into something, be it a starter or backup, but not this year. I think they want him sitting and watching and studying all year long, regardless of what some want.
Obviously, I could very well be wrong. It’s possible they simply don’t think he’s any better than Palko at this point.
by bh13 on Dec 11, 2011 8:27 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Stanzi is under contract for the forseeable future
Palko is not and should get a very good look also. Without all the Chiefs firepower at his disposal is not the best audition but Palko got a good long look
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
There's that too
Palko is getting his time. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s partially a reward for how hard he’s worked while he’s been here. I know he hasn’t played well, but for now he seems to be the best option. I imagine when Orton’s ready to go, we’ll be seeing more of him, either in rotation or starting.
Looks to me like he gave you more than one reason "why not"
in his original comment.
Bask in the glory that is Kwame Harris. Poor Alex...
I respect your opinion, Steve.
You make intriguing points. I too was a Haley supporter. I too thought the criticisms of him were unjust and without sound reasoning. Until today. Today I saw Haley lose control of both himself, and his football team. I understand, the Chiefs have suffered some awful injuries this year. Any team with Tyler Palko starting under center is doomed to fail. But here’s the stat that I just can’t wrap my head around: 5 times this season…yes, 5 times, the Chiefs have lost by more than 27 points. That’s historically bad. This football team, talent wise even with all the injuries, is not that bad Steve. Not even close. That’s more of a coaching issue than a personnel issue. The Kansas City Chiefs are a proud, cornerstone NFL franchise and results like that are simply unacceptable. And if the Chiefs finish with a 5-11 record, I don’t think Pioli will have much of a choice…Todd will have to go.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 11, 2011 7:03 PM CST reply actions
what were the scores in 1982?
how bad was that team?
Does scores matter over record for historical reasons?
The United States lost most every game for 2 whole seasons vs those Johnny Rebs, badly at times. Then the worm turned and the Rebs couldn’t win in any way when the US had the time to prepare and field thier full might
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:17 PM CST up reply actions
Don't know, wasn
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 11, 2011 7:21 PM CST up reply actions
Reply Fail.
Don’t know, wasn’t alive at the time. All I know is that 5 times this season, the team has come totally unprepared to play a football game, this includes OPENING DAY. How are you not prepared for opening day? That’s a COACHING issue.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 11, 2011 7:22 PM CST up reply actions
Why were we unprepared for Opening Day
or should I say how were we unprepeared for opening day?
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
The score says it all, really.
Buffalo 41
Chiefs 7
That’s it. No further explanation needed.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 11, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
My only thought there is
that you prepare for that game for months. The staff made it clear that the schemes centered around Berry. He goes out on the first series. Hard to look prepared at that point.
Fair point.
But how do you explain the complete ineptitude of the offense in that game?
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 11, 2011 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
And I disagree with that type of approach
The Lions did the same thing with arguably the best running back in the game and it got them nowhere for years. Matter of fact once he left they still regressed to an 0-16 year.
You cannot create and entire offensive and defensive plan around one player.
Even the Pats didn’t do this and our own Cassel took them to 11 wins because of having a balanced offense.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
this ^^^
one player on defense should never make THAT much of a difference … no way, no how
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Cassel took the Pats to 11 wins
because of a balanced offense (and solid defense back then) but Denver is winning SOLELY because of Tim Tebow.
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are YOUR STANZI CITY CHIEFS!!
disagree ...
10 other guys on offense (plus the kicker) and the guys on defense …
I do agree that Tebow is making the difference and the primary reason everyone on that team on both sides of the ball “believe” and have stpped up their play … but THEY have to “buy in” for HIS optimism to work
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
They also have some good fundamentals going for them.
They WILL run it down your throat if you don’t sell out against the run. And Tebow, for all his flaws, knows how to stay alive and where to put the ball when he has somebody wide open, and he GETS guys wide open, because the coverage guys are abandoning their assignments when Tebow gets close to the LOS. If they don’t, he’ll beat ’em with his feet. If they DO, they give up easy completions.
It’s a very interesting balance. Does Tebow’s charisma have something to do with it? I suppose. But I also see an offense that is very tough to stop, once they decide they need to get aggressive and take some risks. I’m becoming a big fan of Tebow the football player, even though making a football game into some kind of religious crusade leaves me flat. There is ZERO importance in the real world or the spiritual world who wins what football game.
would of ≠ would've
The coaches can't stop the players from turning over the football
short fields for the opponents created blow outs, hardly something that Haley did not preach to them for years
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:48 PM CST up reply actions
1982 is when I became a Chiefs fan.
Grew up a Packer fan up here in northeast Iowa. Moved to KC in 1980. Started going to games ’cuz, damn, it was the NFL and REAL EASY to get a ticket.
Do you think I wish I’d never moved on from the Packers right now?
Well, tough. I’m a Chiefs fan through and through.
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are YOUR STANZI CITY CHIEFS!!
well said bro.
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
Herm started the rebuild
He’s the only one that wanted to cut the dead wood and start younger guys. Carl didn’t want him to for fear of not putting butts in the seats, so that got delayed for a year. He was at the helm when the team hit rock bottom because of the rebuild. I don’t see him being any worse a HC than Haley. They both are avg head coaches.
If we fire Haley
Herm would be an excellent Choice
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:18 PM CST up reply actions
Gunther would be too
look how good Detroit is!
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:19 PM CST up reply actions
Did I say that?
Herm catches the blame for everything, yet Haley took over a team that already had hit bottom and had some promising players. I wouldn’t want either of them for the HC of my team.
I don't think Manning would have lasted the season behind that O-Line.
They probably would have a couple-few wins this season, but Manning picked a GREAT time to take a year off for rehab. If he hadn’t, I think he’d be in rehab by week 4, ANYway.
would of ≠ would've
bossman, come on now ...
Herm’s been gone for 3 years, he got us the best players we have on the team right now … Haley’s been here as long as Herm and look at the team right this minute … new coaching? dude, Haley IS your “new coach” …
and guess what: in 3 seasons he’s gonna have 2 brually losing seasons and one playoff appearance (and loss) … just like Herm
so guess what … it’s a wash … stop blaming Herm for current failures that are 3 years removed
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
by upamtn on Dec 11, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed and rec'd
I can’t believe I’m saying this,and I’m not supporting Herm or some of his style of coaching. My thoughts were conveyed ad nauseum back then, however Herm as a HC took his teams to the playoffs in half his years as a HC. So 50% playoff rate.
Haley was brought in because of his “prowess” on Offense. Everyone was talking about how much better our offense was going to be once he became our HC. I honestly don’t see that we’ve improved year to year after 3 years.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
Herm inherited a decent but rapidly aging team
Haley inherited a piece of shit team.
I’ve seen people on this site complain that Haley hasn’t “turned the team around” like McCarthy did or Cowher did. Hilarious – those guys inherited good teams and eventually made them even better.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
That's debatable and Herm was trying to make that change
However, you can blame Herm for the first year, and even the second, but the depth we have and some of the players we’ve released/retained in the 3rd year is suspect of poor decisions.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
and ... Herm was only allowed one year of a rebuild (2008) ...
can you imagine what we mght be right now, esp on defense, if Pioli had kept Herm and Chan Gailey and not blown off the 2009 draft (and really the entire year)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
hey, better than the broken wing we have now
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Herm and Carl gave us an EXPANSION team
It takes expansion teams quite a while to become competitive. We were competitive last year. Yes, it was ahead of schedule and raised people’s expectations which makes this year worse.
Steve in RI is exactly right. AP is anorexic dyslexic schizophrenic. Heck a lot of people last year, you included, thought the Chiefs were not a good team and only won by schedule luck. And, then they freak out when the Chiefs are not good this year with a tough schedule and all the best players out.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
The probem and this is just my opinion...
…is that the Chiefs haven’t improved from a depth perspective. Let me be clear on this (or try to). I think there are more holes to fill from starters and especially backups. After 3 years, we should at least have players that can fill in and be acceptable subs.
A team that keeps a Piscitelli, McGraw, Jones, Palko during the pre-season and there were viable available options and get rid of Waters and even Shaun Smith (I consider him a decent backup in the least), just isn’t making the right decisions, IMHO.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
I don't knwo
go compare 2009 team top to bottom to today’s team top to bottom. I think this team is a lot better. Are there examples of bad players on this team? yes.
BTW, yesterday I couldn’t believe my eyes when I was reading people advocating keeping McGraw another year.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Agreed...I didn't read the posts, but agree with your assessment on him
I found it funny that we couldn’t wait to see him off the field, but when he was out for a game due to an injury, we realized we needed him back since we were even WORSE without him.
But, that doesn’t mean he is the answer or even starter material IMHO.
We need a huge improvement there.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
pick your upgrade
A Better engine or curb feelers?
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
Spinners? -ain't crap but keeps people staring at them
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
Waters ... omg, I still cannot believe that move
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
wanted out? is that because he was told he was being replaced by an inferior player?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
when was he told this?
I think Waters did what Tony G did.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
that's very possible, except that in Brian's case he was just in the playoffs
Tony didn’t want to wait thru another rebuild
as for what Waters was or wasn’t told, I have no idea … but YOU were the one who said he WANTED out, and I never heard him say that … and the only reason I can imagine him saying or wanting that is being told that he was no longer the starter, regardless of his play
of course we’ll likely never know what REALLY happened since our organization is now run like the CIA and everything that happens is some national security secret
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
The big difference between both IMHO:
TG: signed contract, verbally made it known to everyone including the media that he wanted to leave.
Waters: never verbalized his displeasure to the media (that I know of). Never supported or denied the 22 guys off the street comment. Professional through and through.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
in re Waters: totally ... always was, always will be
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
my recollection is
but too lazy to go look – is that both Pioli and Waters said it was a mutual decision. But, you always make it seem like the Chiefs were screwing him over somehow, mostly based on BS invented by Whitlock 2 years earlier.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
sure seemed like they were at the time ... based on what happened, not with anything Whitlock did or didn't say
as for the “joint statement” … Brian Waters is too much of a gentleman to say anything else
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
how often does a pro-bowler get outright released from the only team he's ever been with ...
a guy who’s also been NFL Man of the Year award winner, a guy who is most definitely the very epitome of what the organization SAYS it wants in a player: a team leader, a leader on and off the field, a guy who does whatever it takes and helps make sure others on the team do as well …
seriously, how often does a guy like that just get cut, released, sent packing with no warning or explanation?
you answer that for me and then we can resume this delightful conversation :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
See: Jr Seau.
also went to NE and felt revitalized….
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
Truth - your assessment of "a team that keeps..." those players & not others
is an indictment of Pioli and not Haley. The HC works with what the GM gives him. So your logic & argument demands that if Haley is fired, Pioli should be as well.
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
Kinda what I'm thinking, but from a different angle.
Insofar as Haley is influencing Pioli’s decisions, to date, maybe he is partly to blame. I’m pretty darn sure Pioli and Haley have a collaborative approach to the team build. If so, and if they both know what they’re doing, then apparently the idea is to be patient and build the team piece by piece, rather than trying to fix everything all at once. I think they’re farther along on D-Line than they are on O-Line, but they’re pretty substandard on O-Line.
I’d sure like it to have been more trenches-centric these first 3 Pioli drafts. And I don’t think I’d’ve drafted either McCluster or Arenas, nor would I have spent that 1st year’s 2nd-round pick on Cassel and Vrabel. I’d’ve seen the JC successes in ’09 for what they were, and worked to improve the situation for my RBs, before burning a 2nd-round pick on a speedy OW.
For all the hand-wringing over Cassel and now Palko, I think it’s pretty clear that KC’s 2nd-shelf when it comes to offensive line. And judging by how long it’s taking to get this offense rolling, they had PLENTY of time to build culture, without setting back the team-build the way they did with the “Cassel pick.” If they’d gone OL with the Cassel pick and the McCluster pick, they’d’ve been in position to draft QB/WR in the 1st in 2011, or 2012 at the latest, assuming they couldn’t find a pretty darn good QB in FA, to tide them over, and wait for a Stanzi-type pick to develop.
But if you take the long view, the kinds of things they’re doing are the kinds of things a WINNING team does to maintain their excellence. Don’t go overboard on any one thing. Don’t neglect anything. Upgrades through middle-tier FAs when you have a glaring weakness, but the greatest emphasis on drafting and developing your own guys.
I like this approach, but I think where it’s going a bit sour, at least to MY eyes, is their failure to develop the diamonds-in-the-rough that they can promote from within. They left plenty of money to re-sign the guys they want back, like Bowe and Carr, but there’s still a big chunk of change that nobody’s really laying claim to. And they could’ve inked some VERY lucrative front-loaded deals with at least a few FAs that they did not ink, and who could have made a significant difference in the on-field performance.
So either they’re philosophically opposed to chasing FAs very hard, or they’re CONTINUALLY overestimating how good they are up front, in particular. I haven’t seen any (non-injury-related) backwards steps, but they haven’t taken nearly the strides they could have, with more aggression in FA and more aggression in the trenches and outside. They DID make some significant WR moves, but they’re still waiting for OL/QB to see just how good those moves really were.
would of ≠ would've
agree Prof ... build from the inside out ... ie, the lines first
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Heh.
Only thing about inside-out is when it comes to the lines, I don’t think you need to start in the middle, other than to just make sure of STOUT. DE/OLB (Yes, OLB)/OT are perfectly good places to start. Main thing is trenches first. I’ll include TE as the offensive analog of OLB, viewing them as extensions of their respective lines. They both “set the edge” quite often.
Speaking of setting the edge, Houston’s been doing a fine job of that, when called upon. The talking heads were dissing him the other day for not getting in on the tackle on a couple plays, but my eyes told me that he did his job perfectly, and somebody(ies) else simply failed to make the tackle that he facilitated.
would of ≠ would've
I'm not freaking out ... I never thought we'd be GREAT this year to begin with (said we'd be good to hit 8-8)
Heck a lot of people last year, you included, thought the Chiefs were not a good team and only won by schedule luck. And, then they freak out when the Chiefs are not good this year with a tough schedule and all the best players out.
nor am I freaking out that we’re worse because of the injuries … shit happens, last year we were incredibly fortunate all the way around, not only the schedule but having no injuries all year … this year it’s the opposite in every way
ok, so we suck … so what
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
agreed
I guess I worded that wrong. My recollection is that you thought the Chiefs sucked last year and would suck this year! So, I guess you get extra credit.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
we didn't suck last year ... but we WERE incredibly lucky
and we (ie, AP although I wasn’t among those who did) overrated the team by a factor of 50 bazillion, thus leading to the same expectations for THIS year (by those same overraters)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yeah. I think Haley actually GOT an on-side kick or two in 2010.
McCluster had some surprise factor going for him. Then disappeared, after the ankle injury and some game film. Turns out the best way to defend the Chiefs is to play a penetration-based D, because they were (and are) ill-prepared to deal with pressure tactics. You never know who it’ll be on any given down, but you can generally count on at least one and often 2 OL to whiff or otherwise lose a 1-on-1 confrontation.
The ball bounced KC’s way more than their share last season. I think last season also demonstrated that Haley was a pretty good coach, winning 10 games with a middle-of-the-road team. It’s incredibly difficult to win games in the NFL and you have to do a LOT of things right, especially if you still have some fundamental holes, which they had and still have.
would of ≠ would've
I hear you, Ups. As usual, you're pretty close to my take.
I would add, though, that ENTERING the murderer’s row at the end of the season in the .500 range says that they REALLY didn’t make that much progress. I was thinking 8-8 plus-or-minus, by the END of the season, but Detroit gave us an ass-whipping and Buffalo gave us an ass-whipping. Buffalo’s back to their usual mediocrity (and Fitzpatrick’s taking criticism), but they came ready to beat the Chiefs.
Miami was a much better team than originally advertised (and good for them, btw). Denver surprised with an unorthodox but surprisingly sound game plan. And so on… Bottom line is that KC’s best chance for a .500 season (or dare I say “better than .500”?) was entering the home stretch of the season with a strong winning record. The best an up-and-coming team like KC could hope for was a .500 record down the stretch, and it’s starting to look like a rock-steady 0-for.
would of ≠ would've
He'd at least make for a good press conference
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Dec 12, 2011 5:20 AM CST up reply actions
LOL @ sarsasm? Yes?
Todd has a (SLIGHT) ways to go before hitting Herm’s level in my book. Under Haley, we look like we don’t know what we’re doing every OTHER (or every third) game. Under Edwards? Damian McSack doesn’t fire out of his stance until his QB is loudly sacked to the ground (yes, that’s right, McSnack mistook the sound of Huard going down for the snap). Those teams, save the ‘06/’07 club, didn’t have the focus, conditioning, or professionalism to beat the Des Moines Roosevelt JV squad.
Haley hasn’t fallen that far, yet….not with this guy at least.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:09 AM CST up reply actions
Herm had 3 losses of 27 points or more in 3 seasons
Haley has had 5 THIS season, and 9 in less than 3 seasons. I hope not, but it’s certainly possibly he’ll put notch #10 on his belt this weekend.
Focus or professionalism are shown by not getting curb stomped. No coach is getting curb stomped more than Haley.
Are we in better condition than under Herm? Absolutely…so we’ve got that going for us. If Goodell announces tomorrow that he’s going to have a ‘team mile run’ and whoever wins gets the last spot in the playoffs, we’re in good shape.
This is how I'm feeling as well
I really like Haley for the intangibles in coaching, but it’s looking more & more that he doesn’t know the Xs & Os. The blowouts were okay in ’09 because he was trying to change the mentality of the team at all costs, but we should be well past that point in ’11.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I think he tried to run before he could walk.
It might have been because gimmicks and misdirection were his only shot at beating teams that were dominating the KC offense in the trenches.
But IMHO, there’s PLENTY of “changeup” factor in running the ball up the middle or to either flank AND throwing the ball wherever. Run and throw. Do both with high efficiency from the same bloody formation. That’s what I expected to see the 1st two years of his tenure, at least. And when they still weren’t getting it done in Year 3, that’s what I expected to see. Instead, just more failed trickeration.
To me, it looked like they tried to be fancy before they were any good.
Again, it is entirely likely that trickeration was the only way to get ANY production out of a sub-standard team. It doesn’t much matter WHAT you’re trying to do if defenders are puncturing your O-front at will, inches away from the HB, before he even touches the ball.
would of ≠ would've
I can't disagree more
How can you fire a coach that came to a team that was a complete disaster. 4-12. Not good. The 10-6 with a “soft schedule.” Nice, but nothing special after the 1st rd blowout. Now this year. A roster that is still not complete loses 4 of the most important players. Firing Haley now would just waste another 2 years.
If the season starts next year and the Chiefs have not replaced RT, C, and brought competition for QB, then you can be pissed and ready to fire bullets.
Pioli's biggest mistake in my mind ...
not trusting Herm’s scouting staff when he first got here and didn’t have his own guys in place … that and NOT working the team from the inside out (ie, the lines … it’s always the lines that dictate the game)
yeah he got TJax, but then he got cute with Cassel and really nobody else … he got Asamoah and nobody else last year … the lines, man … it’s always the lines (and we sent our best OG packing off to the Pats … terrific!)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
please read the book about Belichick
and you’ll find out how bad the Chiefs scouting staff was.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
that's why the nucleus and best players we have right now are Herm's picks ... right
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Very true ups
but on the same token, recognizing that talent and weeding out the guys that were dead weight goes on the new regime.
But we definitely need to hit a home run on this upcoming draft
going to be very difficult to do
the 2012 draft is deep in QB’s and Line backers. Depth is hard to quantify as for a good draft. We could get a better NT but we only play the NT position 50% of the time and we are pretty good on 1st and 2nd down now.
OT is a weak area and starting caliber Guards and Centers are maybe 2 deep.
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
we do need a homerun
and a triple, a double and a few singles … maybe a couple of walks and a hit batter or two and few stolen bases and a wild pitch, and toss in a few errors by the other teams and …
well, you get the idea
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
disagree with this dour outlook
First, we get Charles, Berry, Moeaki back which are each better than any 1st rounder available to us. We’ve won with those guys with Cassel who might be back.
Second, even with Cassel, I do think we’ll do something more about QB position. Perhaps it isn’t enough to make APers happy – but what will?
Third, OL is our biggest priority I think. I definitely think it can be successfully addressed. A few more ILB and safeties.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
points for "dour"I do think we need much improvement yet on the lines, both sides ... and yeah esp OLine
QB too, no clue who or what … more depth and please, no Piscatelli
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Thanks for the above dialogue.
I think the D has a pretty solid concept on the front 7. Sure, keep looking for upgrade, but I really think another elite DB is in order. And I’m not talking either/or when it comes to Brandon Carr. I’m saying re-sign him AND look for the best FA/draftee possible.
I’d like to see their top 2 picks go to OL and DB, in whichever order. I’d even be willing to trade up to get both picks into the cream of the draft class at both positions. I’d also make it my priority in FA. We like to brag on our secondary, and pretend all will be well, once Eric Berry returns, but too many guys getting too open too often to suit my taste, and against offenses that mismatch us outside AND have good OLs, our defense can be stubborn inside the 20, but they’re overmatched between the 20s.
As for the other position groups, I think just a plodding attention to upgrade is sufficient. If an excellent d-lineman comes my way, I’m re-examining my commitment to OL and DB, but really I think that Crennel’s system of D will work just fine if they keep doing what they’ve been doing, and win ONE more friggin’ 1-on-1 on the perimeter.
Emphasis on D otherwise is on TACKLERS. Not impressed with Gregg’s, Lewis’s, Langford’s, or Carr’s open-field tackling.
would of ≠ would've
just read the book
and let me know if you’d like your staff to act like a bunch of unprofessional douchebags.
I still don’t think those players would have developed under Herm. They would have been lazy.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
^^This...they actually were lazy under Herm...Haley's managed to get several of them
playing at a much higher level (re: Bowe, DJ, JC…)
In spite of the rough year, the players still play for the man, and show fire. Unfortunately, we don’t have a viable QB or a decent O-line.
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
It's obvious
That guys stopped playing for Haley today as early as the 2nd quarter if you bothered to watch the game. That’s when everyone seemed to not even care anymore.
I’m not going to accuse the players of no longer playing for Haley, but depending on how they play the next couple of games the thought will remain in the back of my mind moving forward.
There's a definite lack of concentration/focus on the part of O-Line.
That’s what’s so frustrating about watching Richardson and Lilja, in particular.
But more than that. When you’re facing a well-coached team that’s just MORE TALENTED than you are, whether you’re playing with fire or not, it still sucks.
I didn’t see a KC team that was playing without heart. I saw a KC team that was overmatched in too many places to find ANY way to get an edge. They’re not good enough on the back end on defense to play all that aggressive at the front end. And against the Jets O-Line, in particular, their only way to get pressure was to send more guys than they could afford to send.
would of ≠ would've
mmmmmmmmmm no fire out there today, sadly ... ither than a bit from Haley, just wasn't there overall
not talking the season, but today …
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
It's not like they had a whole lot to celebrate.
Bottom line, today was they faced a more talented team, and had their asses handed to them by a much more complete team. Sad thing is, I think the Jets have holes. You CAN goad Sanchez into game-losing mistakes, but it takes a willingness and ability to GET TO HIM before he can find somebody wide-open. One more DB who can win 1-on-1 and the synergy between pressure and coverage likely tips in KC’s favor.
The one thing good about this season is it shows them for what they are. It’s not like a Martyball team, able to kid itself by winning all the games they should win and stealing a few they shouldn’t, but having fundamental and philosophical weaknesses that denied them playoff success after a string of winning seasons.
would of ≠ would've
yup, expected by many of us ...
they faced a more talented team, and had their asses handed to them by a much more complete team
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Cassel
the main alternative choice people wanted at the time was Sanchez. Sorry, I’m not too impressed by Sanchez.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Better than our depth at QB combined and then root squared.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
that's not saying much
unless I’m misunderstanding, you’re saying Sanchez is better than our backups. OK, so what? The comparison is Cassel vs Sanchez in 2009. I’d take Cassel at that same decision point.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
I'd take a younger, less beat up Sanchez that goes through his progressions.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
I think USC QBs are suspect (ironically)
but at the time I was happy to take a somewhat experienced NFL pro guy (out of USC) than an unproven suspect USC QB. But, as is KC history, we are still on the hunt for a QB. And, I firmly believe AP would today hate Sanchez if he WAS our QB.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Agreed...I wanted Cassel too...but was kind of like 60mil???? oh, who gives a crap, it ain't my money :)
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
We would hate em all cept Brady, Rodgers, Brees.
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:31 PM CST up reply actions
Green (and many other decent NFL QBs) needed certain conditions to succeed.
DV created most of those conditions. Unfortunately it didn’t extend to the defense.
I’m more about creating those conditions and then seeing what turns up at QB. Often, a well-built team will find a cast-off QB who suddenly looks pretty darn good, or a guy they’re developing (like Brady) suddenly emerge. You can always grab a 1st-rounder and put him in a good situation. I think what’s more rare in the league are teams that put their QBs in a good situation. A few teams strike it rich at QB, like Chicago, GB and NO. I think Brady’s a really good one, but is also a system product, who’s always been given enough to work with. Manning the same way.
I agree with kabrink that most of us would be hating Sanchez, right now, if he were a Chief. I think Ryan took the best guy he could find at the time to come in right away and compete, on a team that was already mostly built. Maybe half-assed it @ WR, a little bit, but definitely had horse properly in front of cart, for the most part.
would of ≠ would've
I didn't want Cassel, btw. I was OK with it, after my faith won over my reason,
and I was able to rationalize the move. But three years into it, they STILL haven’t turned the corner on OL, and that’s pretty unforgivable, in my book. I’d be disappointed if they HAD made those OL picks I wanted and they hadn’t panned out, but I would have agreed with going that direction.
Hope Baldwin pans out, but boy it sure would’ve been nice to have spent late-1sts and early-2nds right along on OG/C/RT, and maybe a high 1st on LT if an elite prospect fell. Still, it’s looking like 2013 is going to be where you can reasonably get into that elite category at LT. Sure would be nice to KNOW you’re solid up front and pull out all the stops on skill players!
would of ≠ would've
Sanchez goes through progressions?
TRUTH, are we talking about the same guy? Jets QB, right?
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:14 AM CST up reply actions
Yep...and so does Tebow.
You guys can hate on these guys all you want. The fact is that they are better than any QB we’ve had in quite a few years.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
I disagree about Sanchize, I really do. He makes me think of Cassel all the time.
Inconsistent performances, inconsistent technique, poor reads, errant throws….impressive athleticism, better-than-average arm, can lock throws in tight places, developing leadership ability.
Tebow I hated on for about ten minutes, but now it’s starting to be envy. I hate to say it but his passing looks more and more professional every minute. As his throwing becomes more consistent—even if they keep his “skipping rocks” mechanics, which at this point I think they should—his athleticism becomes more and more dangerous.
The entire 4th quarter and OT of the Bears game yesterday bears that out (sorry for the pun). I live in the Des Moines metro, which is heavy Bears country, and I got a good view of what Tebow can do when his staff puts him in a position to succeed.
I hate to say it, but I’m starting to think Elway needs to swallow his pride and work on making this kid great. Infuriating but true.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 8:16 AM CST up reply actions
Living in Elway country, the sense is that ole Horse Face is warming to the kid.
And well he should.
And even the poor production in the 1st 3 quarters may not really mean what we all think it means. Seems to me that their brutal running attack really sets them up for those 4th quarter successes. Also seems to me that they use that earlier action to size up where the opportunities are going to be when they DO open it up.
I’m really looking forward to seeing them play the Patriots. They are a team that can and will single-up quite a bit and bring the blitz after Brady, which is key to stopping their offense. What I’ll be looking for is whether or not they knock Gronk and Hernandez around at the line, or give them free release. When things get tough for Brady, that’s what they do, and they’ll use Nate Solder as tackle-eligible AND the two TEs, which, despite their actual lack of OL dominance, gives them a damn big lineup that nobody (except maybe the Jets) has figured out how to match up against.
I personally hope to see them get a 20-point lead in the 1st half, and KEEP going after the Broncos, rather than fucking up like every GOOD team Denver’s faced, and try to sit on a lead. That’s how Denver’s been able to stay in games, when they shouldn’t have.
would of ≠ would've
If something isn't working, sometimes you need to try something else even if you don't think it'll be any better
And I’m referring to Palko vs. Stanzi. Putting Stanzi out there might not pan out, but why not give it a shot? I know he COULD be worse, but the team isn’t winning either way, so who really cares? At least Stanzi has some upside…Palko doesn’t.
And for anyone who says the coach always knows best, I’ll remind you of 2009 when Larry “2.7” Johnson was getting all the carries while someone named Jamaal Charles watched from the sideline (you know, the guy who ended up running for 1k in half a season).
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Something that bugs me still
Charles has had 2 shots at 2 seperate all time leading records. One in ’09 for most yards in a game against the Donks, and then most YPC ever in a single season in ’10. Both times Haley shut him down short of those records. You can cite it as, maybe Haley curbing an ego trip by Charles, or something to that nature. But at the same time, how crappy would that be if you were Jamaal?
RG3, its easy as ABC.
I hear what you are saying
but maybe he wanted to make a statement that it is about team and individual stats
Charles himself stated that he pulled himself out of the donks game.
Wanted to give other people playing time.
learn something new every day
hard to believe he didn’t want it though and just took himself out.
RG3, its easy as ABC.
if you dont belive
go to kcchiefs.com they have jc’s press conf after the donks game where he tells why he didnt go back in and get the record know the facts b4 you spit your mouth off
Well written
say we hold onto Haley. Who do we bring in as OC, or do we continue to ride the yearly OC wheel? How does that affect a QB? Look at how its affected Matt Cassel. Of course, he’s not very good, he’s just had a great year with NE and fresh off a Pro bowl year with the Chiefs, but he still sucks anyway? Poor reads, poor footwork, holds onto the ball too much, right?
You can make these circle jerk comparisons and arguments, just like that, all day in Haley’s defense. Oh injuries, oh terrible team he inherited, oh this oh that… Point in case, Matt Cassel is not an elite QB, his play speaks in itself. Todd Haley is not a good Head Coach. His decision making, attitude, actions, and team speak for himself.
So my question really is, we keep Haley another year, only to find its not working, how much farther back have we just set ourselves? Instead of just two years back, we’re now at 3? Thanks but no thanks. We knew this season would be tough. Losing key players makes it that much tougher. Agreed. Doesn’t mean we can’t be competitive. One thing to lose a game, its a whole nother to continually get blownout. If Pioli’s smart, he’ll realize that.
RG3, its easy as ABC.
Art Briles
Briles was also known for developing quarterbacks, sending six of his former players to Division I colleges, including Branndon Stewart, Kevin Kolb, and his son Kendal Briles.
[edit] CollegeBriles left Stephenville after the 1999 season to join Mike Leach’s staff at Texas Tech. While serving as running backs coach, Briles improved Texas Tech’s rushing average every year from 66.4 yards a game in his first year to 99.6 yards a game in 2002. He also coached all-conference backs and later NFL players Ricky A. Williams, Shaud Williams, and Taurean Henderson.
In 2003, Briles was hired as head coach at the University of Houston, where he took over a program that had an 8–26 record under the previous coach, Dana Dimel. The Cougars went 0–11 just two years before Briles’s arrival. In his first season, Briles led the Cougars to a 7–5 record, including a 48–54 triple overtime loss to Hawaiʻi, in the Sheraton Hawaiʻi Bowl.
After a 3–8 season in 2004, Briles guided the Cougars to a 6–6 season and another bowl game in 2005. In 2006, he led the Cougars to a 10–4 record and the Conference USA Championship that was played on December 1, 2006. The Cougars won the game 34–20 and it was the school’s second C-USA Championship (the first came in 1996, in the school’s inaugural season in the C-USA).
In 2007, the Cougars finished second in the Conference USA West Division to Todd Graham’s Tulsa Golden Hurricane. Houston was invited to the Texas Bowl, which was played December 28, 2007 at Reliant Stadium.7 It was Houston’s fourth bowl appearance in five years. Briles left the Cougars before their bowl game to take a coaching job at Baylor.
Briles interviewed for the Baylor head coach position on November 27, 2007, and was hired the next day for a seven-year term.8910 At Baylor, Briles was faced with a familiar task to turn around another rebounding program. Within three years, Art Briles led the Baylor Bears to their first bowl game in 15 years.
In his first season at Baylor, Briles led the Bears to a 4–8 record, 2–6 in Big 12 play. The season featured the emergence of freshman quarterback Robert Griffin. In his second season at Baylor, the Bears again finished with a 4–8 record. However, they only went 1–7 in Big 12 conference play. Griffin was injured and missed every conference game. Baylor bounced back in 2010 with a 7–5 (4–4 conference) record with Griffin, who passed for over 3,000 yards, at the helm. Also the Baylor Bears achieved a bid in the Texas Bowl to play Illinois.
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 7:56 PM CST up reply actions
not sure the point of this
AP would have lynched this guy in his 2004 3-8 season.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
If we draft RGIII and this dude is RGIII's mentor
He is OC material and a full 15 years younger than Bill Muir
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
That's great
not seeing what it has to do with my comment. Love to have RG3 here though, I can agree on that.
RG3, its easy as ABC.
I quit reading after the Rant started
you said possible OC’s
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions
please explain your "attitude" statement on Haley
this is another area of schizo-opinion on AP. AP hates angry Haley and AP hates calm Haley. Make up your mind. Personally, I liked the fired up Haley. Was glad to see him come back today.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
I liked the OC "guru" Haley in Az.
It’s that guy we were talking about when he came on board, not the guy who changed OC’s like a merry-go-round since his arrival and kept running Jones into his own O-line and had the Offense garner only 3 yards in the first half.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
so, we can agree that Haley should be calling the plays?
this is another area of hot debate on this site. I myself have gone back and forth on this point. But, I think he should do it. It would be better than what we’ve done.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Absolutely....get rid of Muir
But, if you’re saying he should be OC and get a new HC, it’ll never happen. I’ve never seen a HC demoted on a team to OC.
Some people are great at specific jobs….Romeo = Defense, not Browns HC.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
nope HC and OC is what I mean
plenty of guys have done it and are doing it.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
yeah, Haley can call the plays ... but only if he has Kurt Warner as QB
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Excellent
We should all be 2008 Arizona Cardinals fans
doesn’t really help us to move forward in real life though
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:34 PM CST up reply actions
Attitude
•A position of the body or manner of carrying oneself: stood in a graceful attitude. See synonyms at posture.
• a. A state of mind or a feeling; disposition: had a positive attitude about work.
b. An arrogant or hostile state of mind or disposition.
Which one of those last two describe Haley the best? Surely Todd Haley isn’t arrogant or hostile? You like your “schizo” description so well, how do you like rooting for one?
RG3, its easy as ABC.
no, I don't think Haley is arrogant or hostile
is that the answer you wanted?
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
So not shaking hands with two seperate coaches
finger wagging one of them, firing his OC 2 weeks before the season began because he felt more confident he could do better, “shoving” Bill Muirs headset into his face, “relieveing” Weis of playcalling duties, getting a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct today…just some examples, and he’s not hostile? Or arrogant?
Either you’re lying to yourself, or you know you’re wrong and just don’t want to admit it.
RG3, its easy as ABC.
1. I don’t care at all about the Josh incident. That guy’s a dick who cheated in that game, imo.
2. I don’t recall the other “hand shake” incident so can’t comment.
3. I didn’t see this alleged Muir incident.
4. Relieving Weis is totally and completely rumor and unproven but you like to believe it so it bolsters your case.
5. I wish he would have fired Gailey on his first day, but he tried to make it work. We still don’t know any facts of that case. But, it was Gailey’s JOB to do as he was told. If he was choosing not to he should have been fired. Not sure why everyone thinks Gailey is Tebow’s dad either.
6. Sometimes coaches and managers do things to get their team fired up. Today’s game was over anyway. No big deal and I like hot Haley.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
by kabrink on Dec 11, 2011 8:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
shotty seems to be B
as if we all have a say on what someone else should act like in their position
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 8:35 PM CST up reply actions
Didn't mean to offend
just tried defending my opinion, not unlike many people here do. Not trying to be hostile or come off as arrogant. Sorry if that’s how I seem.
RG3, its easy as ABC.
I did see the video and Haley didn't "shove" the headset in Muir's face -
he moved the mic vertically (read: up) in front Muir’s mouth, likely so he could possibly be better understood. Ever listened to Muir? Marble-talk..
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
by WorL4Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
Half of your examples are media bullshit, shotty. The other half are legit concerns.
a) because he felt more confident he could do better
b) "shoving" Bill Muirs headset
c) "relieveing" Weis of playcalling
…OK, most of them have more opinion than fact. We don’t know ANY of the above to be true (save for the headset, which I witnessed and did not think was a “shove”). The reasons for letting go of Gailey, and the fiction about Weis—that’s mostly media BS, entirely unproveable unless you have Chan or Charlie’s cell numbers and can get them to explain their sides of the story.
Like you, I’m really, really disappointed in Haley right now…but its with tangible things, like our 50/50 blowout ratio and not Fescoe BS.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:25 AM CST up reply actions
Haley just reminds me a lot of myself.
And when I’m in the heat of the moment, I come across like a mean SOB. To get away with it, though, I have to be surrounded by equally mean SOBs, and there can’t be any witnesses who see how little we care about each other’s feelings.
That’s the telling thing about Haley, in my opinion. He dishes it out, but he can take it, too. I’ve seen him in apparent screaming contests with people, but never give it a second thought, and have nothing but GOOD things to say to any of us mere outsiders about his guy. 5 seconds later, he’s forgotten it, because the screaming didn’t matter one bit to him. I think this got him into hot water with Pioli and guys with less fire in the belly and thin skin. Not everybody relates this way. Most people have layers of camouflage between their hearts and their speech. I think Haley, when he’s talking to “family,” has no such filter. And if he’s like me, what HURTS is when he discovers that HIS honesty is neither appreciated nor reciprocated by those whom he lets into his heart, like he does his players.
would of ≠ would've
And some of the people that don't like angry Haley
Want Cowher as coach, like he never yelled at anyone.
exactly, I've said that same thing many times but nobody ever comments afterwards
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
I've said it too, Kabrink. Pretty much everything Haley does (except the whole changing OC's thing), Cowher did.
Not too different from Marty, either…high expectations, lots of sarcasm, on-field and off-field intensity…Even sticking with a lesser QB—that’s a Haley/Marty thing too! Anyone remember the Grbac/Gannon conundrum?
Issues with Haley include a) inconsistent schemes, b) yo-yo team (total focus followed up by total domination), clock mismanagement—also shared with Cowher and Marty.
Hmm. As much as I’m put out with Haley, and really thought yesterday desrved a pink slip, this comment alone is giving me pause. Who really COULD do better right now?
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:32 AM CST up reply actions
(gasp) you mean Haley is NOT perfect after all? who'da thunk it! (GASP)
Issues with Haley include a) inconsistent schemes, b) yo-yo team (total focus followed up by total domination), clock mismanagemenT …
well said, go-sal … thing that we (fans) do is get so polarized (“Haley Sucks!” v “Haley Walks On Water!”) that it’s silly and almost impossible to have a REALISTIC discussion (you remember realism: like when I was saying last year we were gonna get creamed by the Ravens)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Another harsh dose of realism: Several folks on here are begging for Fisher, saying he'd bring a dose of professionalism to the team
I dare them to go on MCM and ask a Titans fan how they feel about J-Fish. Outsider perspectives are always skewed…
Seriously though, our o-line is talent deficient and we lack a passer. If we had those two things, or even a QB who could pull a rabbit out, we’d likely have beaten PIT. In fact, that was our o-line’s best game in awhile…
The issues with coaching are legion. But there’s no band-aid fix, despite what about five or six (of the same) posters keep insisting. (Note…the previous comment was not meant as a defense of justification of Todd Haley).
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 10:06 AM CST up reply actions
O/T
Green Bay is only favored by 14 over us. For now. Thanks for the feedback on this piece by the way. I was in a weird place after watching the game and going through the postgame comments. I’m just glad I did not make the drive today to go to the game
The Chiefs are just not competitive
If Haley were a great coach, I don’t think we would keep getting blown out. You see it every week in the NFL, good coaches find ways to be competitive. Regardless of what you think of our players they are professional football players. Each coach has the same number of players. You’ve got to know what your players can do and know what the other team can do then plan accordingly. Unless you just get out coached (which will happen to anyone occasionally) you should be competitive. Haley has just been blown out too many times this season to call him a good coach. I believe there are great coaches out there without jobs (Jeff Fisher, Bill Cowher) and others waiting for there chance (Brian Schottenheimer). I hate to see the Chiefs keep wasting time on Haley. I don’t think he was even their first choice anyway when they hired him. We need to make a move on one of these coaches before they get picked over and we have to settle like we did last time. I think Haley has been given enough opportunity.
Good points
but Brian Schotty is almost on his way out of his current job. He may have to wait longer.
The problem I see (and let's look at only one example to keep this reponse short)
Is any HC that keeps Jones doing the same thing over and over by playing a guy that runs into his own line without gaining any yards, after 13 games, is just asking to be ostracized.
ROOT with your heart.
ANALYZE with your head.
insanity - doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Haleys judgement
If Haley were on trial for his performance he would be deemed incompetent to stand trial by a jury of his peers.
like Del Rio? :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
ok, I can't explain that
but Dexter and Battle haven’t really been incredibly productive either. What I don’t like is running Dexter in the middle.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
that i agree with
dex running up the middle when it never works makes me want to just turn the tv off and palko doesnt make it any better
Im done with Haley since the
Chicago game. He started Paolo over Orton which did not give us the best chance to win even though we still did. Other reasons why I’m done with him is getting blown out all the time, and giving carries to TJ over Battle
He’s done. I will be very surprised if he’s not fired
by chiefnation on Dec 11, 2011 8:29 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Bill muir
Said in a interview that Orton learning the plays was not an issue and that he was learning fast.
Bottom line, he would give us a better chance to win then turnover tyler
by chiefnation on Dec 11, 2011 8:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The games the Chiefs have won...
I believe they’ve won in spite of Haley. A pretty good defense and defensive coordinator didn’t hurt either. On top of this it seems like he clashes with too many people. I thought a coach knew how to communicate his ideas to his coaches and players and they buy into the plan. Haley just makes people hate him and they leave.
I think I was including Gaily.
I exaggerated a little, sorry. But do you think based on his performance as a HC that he has the ability (personality) to lead a team successfully? Just his press conference comments make me crazy. He seems very petty. This beard growing superstition and nasty hat thing makes no sense at all either.
I also think it's unproven that Weis left because of Haley
hell, look at the guy moving again away from his supposed best friend and leaving him in the cold.
Anyway, yes, I still think Haley can be a good coach. I agree with his hard ass approach of making players get in the best shape possible and working hard and being disciplined.
His press conference comments? What, because he doesn’t spill the beans on the decisions, strategies, etc? No coach does that. He is no different than any of the other coaches that say a lot of words without saying anything in their press conferences. Go watch Belichick. The one that DOES say things is Rex Ryan and everyone seems to hate him for it.
The beard and hat thing are somebody just having fun at work. Seriously, the beard and hat thing are reasons he can’t be a HC?
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
by kabrink on Dec 11, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
I said he is petty. That's his attitude. I think that could effect playcalling.
You have a right to your opinion. But, I think Haley’s record proves my opinion to be more correct, so far. I really wish Haley was a great coach. The fact is he’s not. I just hate to keep wasting time on him.
then too, his opinion is as valid as your opinion ...
I mean, when it comes to subjective issues … one opinion is as valid as another
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Check his record (or facts).
The fact that his W/L record is not very good, makes him not a great coach. That’s how coaches are rated.
at some point
all Hall of Fame Coaches sucked record wise
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:27 PM CST up reply actions
36-44 Record... in 5 years...
Would you take this coach? Right now to hire if that is what he is basing things off of.
Generally regarded as a having a bad attitude, good pedigree as a coordinator, kind of a ragamuffin.
Can you guess this coach?
I really do not have anything beneficial to add to this conversation. More than likely I stole the response I gave from someone else. I do not believe in originality.
by Cowboynchrist on Dec 11, 2011 11:39 PM CST up reply actions
total wild guess, I'll say ... Ryan of the Jets?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Hoodie Bill?
The loss record is too high, though.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
what
if he wore a 3 peice and a tie would that make him any better in your eyes palko dresses nice but he still sucks haley is a good coach i like the beard and the hat seams like a down to earth person that we all well most of the working class can relate to
I cant speak for everyone on AP ,I can only speak for myself
I have been against Todd Haley from day 1.When we were 4-3,I warned everybody it was a mirage.I got called disloyal,negative,a band wagon fan etc…. Low and behold, we are now 5-8 with a laughing stock for an offense.You would think with Haleys pedigree, the offense would be the unit keeping the team afloat.But,we know this is not the case and it was awful even when Matt Cassel was starting.We now have an offense,that was bad in 09 under Haley,very good in 2010 under Weis,and god awful again under Haley this year.I think we can put 2 and 2 together and surmise the 2010 offensive production had everything to do with Weis ,not Todd Haley
You can blame Bill Muir for the offensive struggles,but come on,we all know the truth with that.Even if I were to take away all logic and reason and say Muir really is calling the shots,I would say that Haley has at least a large role in the coaching and scheme planning.Even then,it is still irrelevant to me who is calling the plays,because Haley put Muir in that position in the first place.Despite the fact Muir had no experience with offensive play calling.Either way,Haley is directly responsible for that abysmal play calling we see on game day
The Tyler Palco situation his head scratching to say the very least.Not so much the fact that he is playing but the fact he is even on this team.The UFL and CFL,both decided that Palco wasn’t even good enough to make there opening day roster.To put that in perspective,Brooks Bollenger was the UFL MVP a couple years ago.Not to mention,3 NFL teams came to the same conclusion about him.Yet ,Haley/Pioli decided he was good enough not only make the team ,but be the number 2 guy in case Cassel got hurt.Whether that was arrogance or ignorance, it was still poor judgement.And it is yet another in an ever growing list of poor decisions by Haley/Pioil both of whom I have been very critical of
1 more quick point about Palco before I move on.I warned people before the Pats game be careful what you wish for with Palco starting.People argued with me up and down,that there was no way Palco could be worse than Cassel. As we have seen ,Palco makes Cassel look like Joe Montana by comparison.Now people are saying there is no way Stanzi could be worse than Palco ….hmmmm…..really?
You speak of loyalty to Todd Haley. Why do I owe Todd Haley loyalty? Todd Haley owes the fans loyalty not the other way around.I’m loyal to my friends,my family,my girlfriend,I don’t owe Haley my loyalty. What about his loyalty to the fans and this city?He owes this fan base the best product he can put on the field.He hasn’t done to much of that lately.
How come no one ever brings up the way Haley ran the off season when talking about injuries?Have you ever stopped to think,maybe the reason Moeaki and Berry were hurt was because of them playing in the 4th quarter in a pre season game?Or because of the way he handled the off season conditioning program? Yet he seems to escape criticism when it comes to those injuries.
If you are waiting for this big I told you so moment with Haley,I think you will be disappointed by the end result.I don’t need 10 years to see if a guy is working out here.People get fired after a year,products pulled off of shelves after 6 months,TV shows cancelled mid season.If something/someone isn’t working out ,you don’t need 20 years to figure it out.I am tired of banging my head against the wall with Todd Haley.He isn’t head coach material
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 8:53 PM CST reply actions
Haley hasn't been here 20 years
I know it seems like it to you.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
3 seasons to many
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions
you're right
it’s 3 seasons to all of us. Not just many! Sorry, had to do it!
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
he's been here 3 seasons to many
and he has been here 3 years……point ?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
to vs too
sound the same, but completely changes the meaning.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
oops my bad
spelling not withstanding ,I think people get the point.Besides,when all people can do is criticize the spelling of a word I think they lost the argument
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 10:29 PM CST up reply actions
See my reply above.....
I really do not have anything beneficial to add to this conversation. More than likely I stole the response I gave from someone else. I do not believe in originality.
by Cowboynchrist on Dec 11, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
I have been against Todd Haley from day 1.When we were 4-3,I warned everybody it was a mirage.I got called disloyal,negative,a band wagon fan etc…. Low and behold, we are now 5-8 with a laughing stock for an offense.You would think with Haleys pedigree, the offense would be the unit keeping the team afloat.But,we know this is not the case and it was awful even when Matt Cassel was starting.We now have an offense,that was bad in 09 under Haley,very good in 2010 under Weis,and god awful again under Haley this year.I think we can put 2 and 2 together and surmise the 2010 offensive production had everything to do with Weis ,not Todd Haley
How many high draft picks over three years was devouted to the Offense?
3 maybe or 4 if you include the trade for Cassel/Vrabel
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:03 PM CST up reply actions
well if you think about it
We already had a WR, 2 RB’s, and 3 o-lineman on the team already.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 9:44 PM CST up reply actions
who's Palco?
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
he sucks so bad that I refuse to spell his name right
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 9:26 PM CST up reply actions
Well it is a lot opinion
So just the facts would not apply here. Implying that injuries to multiple players were because of playing in the 4th quarter of a preseason game is not science.. It’s an opinion
Just like your post
It’s all just opinions,you have yours and I have mine
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Dec 11, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
No...opinion. You call it fact because you like what it says.
There’s a lot of merit in saints_chiefs’ comment, sure…but calling a fact an opinion because I dig it is the same as calling a fish a chicken because I stick a feather in its side.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:39 AM CST up reply actions
Hunt family does not care
Haley cant compete when his owner is a cheapskate surpassing David Glass. He had no margin for error before the injuries.The players see that too and will leave at first opportunity and free agents will ignore Chiefs as long as Hunt Family owns this Team, which they have about 35 years too long.
I just have an issue with being against a coach since the beginning
To quickly add, Berry wasn’t injured in the 4th quarter in the last preseason game so I don’t see the correlation.
Now to my point. Sure, when I heard Todd Haley’s name come up to be the head coach, I was disappointed, but that’s because I had my hopes high on a proven head coach like Cowher or Gruden. But I knew that wasn’t how it was going to be now. And I just wanted the whole organization to be on the same page. I was tired of Carl and his head coaches not going in the same direction, and yes, I believe Herm got shafted. However, if Pioli and Herm were not going to be on the same page, I didn’t want it to go on any further with lack of agreement on the direction of the team like the Peterson debacle I’d witnessed in the last several years. Cohesion was my hope.
Since Haley was going to be the guy, I was going to support him. I was going to be as objective as possible. While some questioned the unorthodox style of this new regime form the get go, I tried to figure out the reasoning behind it. Instead of hearing the rumors and further spreading them to justify a dislike for the regime, I dismissed them and based my assessment on that which we actually could see with our own eyes. And instead of saying fire Haley after two blowout losses, I was going to give Haley until we were mathematically eliminated to make my decision on him.
And now, barring a miracle next Sunday, we are at that point. We now have a representative sample of the inconsistency and lack of adaptation. I still wish I could have seen this offense under a good quarterback, but I can see the reason to let Haley go now.
by old_school on Dec 12, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
The thing I didn't like about Haley when the announcement came
was my main exposure to him was that AZ Superbowl, when Dick Lebeau totally outcoached him. Every time there was a weak spot to be exploited, it took AZ most of a quarter to make the adjustment to exploit it. Then Lebeau would adjust to counter that adjustment in about ONE PLAY, and Haley would take most of a quarter to find and exploit the new weak spot.
This seemed to continue as the offensive mastermind of the Chiefs. I saw lots and lots of preparation, but very little in the way of play-to-play adjustments. Just the unreeling of a predetermined plan of attack, rather than a plan that included seizing opportunities as they arose. Just so you know, I felt the same way about Weis. It was more about trying to trick the other guy, rather than just an instant, common-sense exploitation of what’s happening on the field.
I HATE hearing about “great halftime adjustments,” when I believe that a team ought to be adjusting every minute of every game. Sure, you might cook up a nice sequence of plays, designed to get the other guys off-balance to start the 2nd half, but why the hell did it take you ’til halftime to get the opponent off-balance and KEEP him off-balance?
would of ≠ would've
Great Post and rec'd
I am a staunch Haley and Chiefs supporter. I believe in Coach Haley and so does his players. Yes, he needs some improvement as do some of the players, but they are on the way to winning.
Huge mistake to fire him and it would set the team back years in development.
The problem with Todd, it seems, is that he only knows one way of playing football
And there is nothing that will cause him to deviate from that one style, because he doesn’t know anything else. Look at what Chan did in ‘08…he saw immediately that Thiggs couldn’t operate a conventional offense, so he scrapped it & after one week nearly knocked off (ironically) the Jets the following week. Look at what John Fox is doing in Denver…he knows that Tebow can’t run a traditional offense so he has changed things up to fit who he has. Haley just doesn’t seem to be capable, in this regard.
Haley has a lot of great coaching attributes, most importantly he gets his players to buy in and play hard for him, even though he’s not really a ’player’s coach’. This is a really difficult attribute to find, I think, and it alone makes me hate giving up on him. Unfortunately it’s not the only attribute needed, you also need to be able to out-think your opponents… which is something he doesn’t seem to be very good at.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Chan's team now has the same record that we do
and of course no playoffs last season
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:04 PM CST up reply actions
It's not really a fair comparison
Chan’s team plays in the AFC East (the division that outscored KC by 120 points this year), they have a much more difficult schedule than KC. It’s hard to argue that if KC were in the AFC East we would have made the playoffs last season.
More to the point, in 2008 Chan took a below average QB with a terrible OL, poor running game and literally no NFL caliber receivers beyond TG & Bowe, and made this group score about 20ppg.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Yes. And I'd've stuck with that Arrowspread until I had the players to do something different.
And I’d’ve KEPT the journeyman Thigpen as my starting QB until I’d done a LOT to upgrade the talent around him. I’d’ve made Stanzi-type picks in the meantime, and been on the lookout for other, relatively cheap QBs who were highly mobile. I watch Tavaris Jackson in Seattle and think, just as I always thought, “Here’s a perfectly good QB, who’s tough, mobile, and has a better arm than anybody I see on the KC roster.” Watching him play Monday night against the Lambs (and yes they’re lambs this year) only bolsters my strongly-held belief that Minnesota has done nothing but WASTE TIME ON QB, when all they needed to do was fix their O-Line and, sure, keep drafting QBs in the later rounds and look at FA QBs, but going rich at QB has done nothing but get their coaches in hot water and their fans in alcoholics anonymous.
would of ≠ would've
He wants to flat out beat them with superior talent
not out-think em
If you always mold your team how do you get rid of players that don’t fit?
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:07 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with a lot of what you say, jmc. I reached a lot of those conclusions yesterday.
I will say this: If someone can sell Haley on an idea, he will go with it.
An example is the ZBS…No Haley club prior to this (Jets, Dallas, AZ) had been a zone team, at least not primarily. The base Erhardt offense uses mostly man with some zone mixed in. Examples include the Giants and even the Pats.
Haley came here, saw the athleticism rather than brawn on the line, and went toward a zone-scheme. We use very little man-to-man.
But this is also a good example of his lack of deviation—Asamoah and Richardson are very athletic, but are strong and could really do some damage just by locking onto a man and driving him down. There are two players who would benefit from a more traditional approach to the Erhardt-Perkins offense.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:44 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe I just didn't get the message correctly
But, I felt like this was a stupid post tbh.
A lot of what you wrote was predicated on things people said before the season had even began (i.e. predicting records), which everyone does. Just because you “Predicted” a loss to a team before the season started, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be mad that you lost, that’s stupid. Especially when you had a chance to actually win.
I felt like this entire thing was just putting a twist on things in a BS direction. Predictions are made by people who hope to be proved wrong, not right.
yep that has to be it
preconceived notions are just blather and apparently should always be judged as more blather
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:08 PM CST up reply actions
Not sure if you're sarcastic
But I see it like this, predictions by people always change depending on whether or not guys you expect to be good this season turn out not doing so well, or guys that you don’t expect to be good end up having a couple of breakout games. Most fans probably end up having maybe 3 or 4 sets of predictions they made simply by the way the situation changes, which I felt like you failed to address in this entire article.
I think it is stupid to say since a person predicted to lose a game at the beginning of the season, and their team lost the game during the season that they shouldn’t be mad or disappointed.
The poster and I are both disappointed that we lost any games at all
The point is that many you included had pre-season ideas on how tough this season was going to be. According to those concensus ideas the Chiefs are right about where we thought they would be with or without all the injuries to key personnel. Firing the Head Coach based on meeting expectations seems silly to most rationale AP members
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
Something I don't get
Is that by your logic what you’re saying is that if people had predicted a 4 – 12 season in 2010 after we had a 4 – 12 season in 2009 you would’ve been happy with Haley and the staff because they gave you what you wanted? Which means that your entire argument by you and the poster used in this write-up would be completely non-existent if the general consensus among people to begin this 2011 season was that the Chiefs would end the season with any record above .500 and/or a playoff berth.
If an argument can be that easily changed based on a different wording, then I don’t see what you guys are saying rationale at all, just childish. I think a rationale person takes into consideration the situation at hand and changes their expectations accordingly. Just because some people expected a sub .500 season at the beginning of the season doesn’t mean they kept that mentality all throughout the season, and at every waking moment.
Everyone changes their opinion as things begin to take shape, I am pretty sure that you and the person who posted this even had thoughts about the Chiefs possibly leading the division at 6 – 3 after we won 4 straight with games coming up against Denver and Miami, and had thoughts that the Chiefs could get an upset or 2 going into the tough 5 game stretch that would allow them to still be in the playoff hunt coming out of the stretch, and you expected all these things after initially probably thinking at the beginning of the season that they Chiefs weren’t going to well.
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with the premise that because some people say that the Chiefs would be a terrible team and they turn out to be a terrible team, that they should be fine with that because that’s what they expected anyway.
You assume that the point of the post is that "people should be fine." I never read that into this post.
Steve_in_RI is talking more about the dramatic mood swings folks have had. We all want KC to win, every game every year in fact…but reality is, they don’t. No you don’t need to be “fine” with that. However…it is a fact of sports. Kind of like, in life, everyone dies.
Steve’s post is addressing the unrealistic expectations that change weekly on this site—one week Todd’s the worst coach since God was born, fire him and his boy Pioli who can’t do math, much less draft, and take Clark with him. Then the next week we nail a team down, and it’s all about us sneaking in the playoffs and Go Chiefs.
Those reactions are all natural—we all go through them as we travel through the course of a season. But Steve is encouraging people to keep some perspective. KC is not the total doormat we saw yesterday; look at what we’ve done to PIT and to CHI. HOWEVER, KC is not ready to be a playoff team in ’11. Look at what a wildcard team did to us yesterday, and what an NFC wildcard contender did to us early in the season.
That’s what he’s addressing…people remembering that this club is not all the way there. That doesn’t mean “Oh, we lost, it’s all good and awesum11!!”. That means to appreciate wins and see the losses for what they are…another step that shows us what we need to do to become better. Maybe that means dropping Haley, maybe it doesn’t. Steve_in_RI thinks no…I’m on the fence.
Also, a lot of the commentary on this blog has become inflammatory and personal in the last several weeks, and I think that also has something to do with Steve’s post. As I’ve said a time or two now….my favorite E-sports bar is turning into cable news. Kinda frustrating, right?
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:54 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Y'welcome and no problem.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 8:11 AM CST up reply actions
You and the horse you rode in on, sal.
I’ve NEVER EVER said ANYTHING inflammatory!
Right on. As you were. :o)
would of ≠ would've
again, well said ...
you and I and many, many others have said allong this team isn’t/wasn’t ready … toss in the injuries and anyone with a brain could see it wasn’t gonna be pretty … everyone wants “instant gratification” in everything, kinda sad but that’s the kind of people we are now … it’s an instant news cycle, fast-food, get it right now society and we want our football (wins) to be the same way
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Danke.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I'll go you one further and say that withOUT the injuries this team's problems STILL would have
led to an early exit from the playoffs, at BEST. Probably more wins, but still basically a .500 team in its basic makeup. Haley could maybe wangle another winning record without those injuries, but maybe not more than one or two above where we’re sitting now, with the QBs they have and the OL they have.
They really didn’t make much progress over 2010 up front. In fact, you factor in age (Lilja and Wiegmann) and the loss of Brian Waters, and I’d argue that they MAYbe stood still, when it was the position group they MOST needed to improve.
would of ≠ would've
And thank you for several respectful and very intelligent comments.
Not enough of that on AP these days. Makes it fun to talk football again.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:56 AM CST up reply actions
Screw that. I wanna let my hair down.
Sorry, go_saleamua. Every time you say something statesmanlike, I feel compelled to tear it down. :o(
would of ≠ would've
Steve, I wholeheartedly endorse everything you said.
Thank you for ‘declaring’ your convictions and articulating them so well..
Truly, a breath of fresh air!
Angry Red, 'nuff said.
by chiefsfan62 on Dec 11, 2011 9:07 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I would like to see Haley get another season
I think he and Pioli have both made mistakes, but I’d like to see what he could do with another full off season. I don’t think we’re likely to gain much by gutting the coaching staff and starting again
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. ~ Groucho Marx
by Big Chief on Dec 11, 2011 9:07 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Thank you Steve! Rec'd!
It really does get old that expectations & blaming keep going up & down like an elevator.
I do hope that Hunt & Pioli address the QB and depth issues on this team and maintain continuity with Haley. To start over with a new HC / HC philosophy would set this team back.
Also – I sure don’t blame Haley for getting fired up about the officiating – it stunk today, a bit more than usual.
I'm dressin my voodoo doll in stripes every season...
Haley has made mistakes
Can he improve? Haley’s made some key personnel mistakes, notably the OC carousel that has been Gailey/Weis/Muir. Never in a million years should an off line couch been promoted up, and a big name guy should have been put in there.
I really disliked that he kept Cassel in as long as he did (Cassel took 9 games to have the same stats that Orton did in 5, and Orton lost his job) but now that I see how bad Palko is… ugh. How couldn’t you keep Cassel in.
People forget that he’s taken a really sloppy, unorganized Herm team and made it competitive again. He’s lacking a good QB, which no coach can succeed without in this generation of NFL teams. Last year he took a middling QB and helped him overachieve. This year he just doesn’t have the ammo that he should have.
I guess I’m one of the few people that generally like Haley. I like his swagger and the ability to do surprising things. I like it that he pushes his players, and never over invests in believing they are better than they really are. I like that people are calling for his job (which is just low in general) and he’s sticking with it, reading letters from fans, etc.
Haley gets another year, if he gets a good FA QB. Two if he gets a high pick rookie qb starter next year.
by MichaelMantastic on Dec 11, 2011 9:12 PM CST reply actions
If most of their losses were close, then people wouldn't be as mad.
But most of these losses have been blowouts. I don’t blame em for being pissed off.
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.
Last year we blew out San Francisco
This year we blew out Oakland
So do those count for anything more than a win?
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 11, 2011 9:25 PM CST up reply actions
A loss is still a loss but I'd like for them to be competitive even in a losing game.
*When we blitz, have the LB's do a KC Strip. Do this in remembrance of DT.
*Dear David Glass, as a lifelong Royals fan, I beg you to please sell the team. You have always been the problem; you will never be the solution.
by mistamic on Dec 11, 2011 9:38 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
No, but what is your point?
Blowout WINS are a good thing. It means you are putting points on the board, and keeping the other team from shifting the game’s outcome on one drive, or one play.
Blowout LOSSES mean you have
no chance
to win.
See the difference?
Being competitive includes beating the crap out of another team. Being competitive does not, in any way, include putting up FOUR YARDS OF TOTAL OFFENSE in the first half and having no chance of winning.
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are YOUR STANZI CITY CHIEFS!!
This is exactly why I've gone from "Keep Haley, c'mon folks" to "I don't know about the future of this team."
So many blowout losses, so little time.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:57 AM CST up reply actions
I think you get the blowouts when you're gambling all the time, because you can't win straight-up.
When all the risks you’re taking do NOT result in (improbable) success, it really snowballs.
I keep using the chess analogy: When you’re behind, you lay a lot of traps, because they’re your only shot at winning. If your opponent doesn’t take the bait, it only hastens your defeat. But you STILL have to lay those traps, even though they’re technically unsound. I feel this way about the KC offense, and even, to an extent, about their defense.
would of ≠ would've
starting Palko again?
Thats like putting your hand on a burning stove and then doing it again. If ever Ive seen utter incompetence by a head coach this is it. I liked Haley til it was clear to me that he cannot get beyond the fact that things aren’t working. Reminds me of a stubborn kid that keeps doing the wrong things over and over. Was it really going to hurt to see what the Stanzi kid has when we are clearly getting our asses kicked? I’m pissed and I’m done with him. Haley’s comet just flared out.
Haley is perfect for Kansas City
long time follower first time poster. I love Haley. Our team is banged up right now but just think, next yr how much better we will be. Haley also has a big issue many are overlooking I think. Whether you believe he caused it or not. Haley is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t hire a new of. If he does ppl will say see one more he didn’t get a long with. If he doesn’t he gets blamed bc Muir is a terrible OC. We all know what last year what he could do with a healthy team and last place schedule. Next yr ppl will be even better and our team will be healthier. New QB and better OC, and some new additions we should be favorites next yr. All it takes is a good schedule get hot at right time and we could go far in playoffs. Love ya AP, keep up the great work guys.
welcome to AP
hmmm 91 … we have someone who wears that number, I think (grin)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I like Haley
The team clearly was affected by having so many of their starters out for the season. It would be a completely different story this year.
But, I wish him well and I think he’ll do well wherever he goes.
I don't think the injuries helped.
On the other hand, KC lost none of their big men to injury, which is more than most teams are able to say at this point in the season.
would of ≠ would've
thank god i am not the only one
sure these are hard times but we have seen harder haley needs a little time if we keep starting over we will never get any where i love the mans fire loyalty altho sometimes i dont agree who he is loyal to i think he will be a great coach with the time and a compatint oc who can stay awake haley will right the ship now i will go drink some more kool aid even tho it tastes bitter some times
couldn't have said it better
You are not the only one. I know many ppl that agree. Although it seems the ones calling for his head are the loudest right now. I also want to say I understand ppl being frustrated. Todd Haley isn’t perfect by any means but even though I totally disagree with Muir and Pallor I respect him more for standing with him. He does what he thinks is best for the team. Would I like to see Stanzi yes. But I also think Haley is giving him time to mature. Imagine how hard it would be to come in and play in a game that has meaning and make a few bad plays aNd everyone thinks you’re terrible. What if he is patient with him and brings him along like he sees fit (bc I’m sure Todd know better about his players than the avg fan). Grooms him and he becomes the best thing ever. I honestly believe Todd will get us to the BIG game and I for one am happy he’s our coach.
I don't think we should fire Haley but
1. We need a new offensive coordinator. From the start of the season I have questioned Haley’s reasoning on having Muir call plays. The best offensive mind on the team is Haley. If he wants Muir to be offensive coordinator, fine but HALEY should be calling the plays, like he did in Arizona — and like Hue Jackson, Sean Payton, and Muir’s old head coach Gruden did (Muir was offensive cordinator with Gruden). Haley talks about starting the best players. How about the best coaches?
2. Need an offensive line coach. Muir was great and virtually the same offensive line last year was much better. Since Muir is also offensive coordinator he can’t spend as much time with the o-line and it shows!
3.Start tryouts for our quarterback of next year. We are out of the playoffs. See if Orten or Stanzi looks like the one who can carry this team next year.
I have consistently supported Haley … and still do. It would be a mistake to let him go….but if none of the above is done in the near future we won’t win next year either, and if he can’t see this or doesn’t correct it then we should look for someone who will.
Oh my goodness
This is just silly.
I could post a write up as to why that terd in the toilet should stay there and not flush it. But at the end of the day I need to flush it or else it just stinks and will never smell any better.
It’s nothing personal against the terd….just business.
Pioli, please flush Haley. He is really stinking it up in KC.
How long should you try? Until.
- Jim Rohn
by Matt_Grbac on Dec 11, 2011 11:36 PM CST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Mobile rec
Great analogy
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 12:58 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Best analogy
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Dec 12, 2011 5:56 AM CST up reply actions
would rather he win in KC
Then get fired bc we weren’t patient only to be a great hc somewhere else. Haley is going to be a great coach i honestly believe it. The question is will be patient long enough to see it through.
Also, on Stanzi. Why does everyorone question him on this. I understand the want to not be a doormat or laughing stock of the leaGue, but look what he did for other players on our team. Ppl that most had given up on. Would you rather he put a future possible qbotf in too early bc of pressure from fans or the media and risk ruining him? This is a process,noone said it would be easy. Ppl seem to forget how bad we were.
I’m not saying you have to love Haley, but get a grip. The constant critique, no matter what he does. The obsession. I don’t know what it is that makes some of you so thirsty for his blood. It bums me out. I feel like we’re Broncos fans or something. So plastic and cheap.
My personal opinion is that he’s hard to get along with, and stubborn, arrogant, and aggressive, and I like it. I would love for the Chiefs to be a whole team full of guys that liked it too. Look at the players who vocally like playing for him. Johnson, Hali, Charles, Thomas Jones, Brandon Flowers, Eric Berry, Bowe.. basically all the players that buy in end up playing at a high level. I think we should give it time.
If it goes another 2 years and we’re still not upper echelon then let him go. At least we’re not cycling through coaches like we’re the Raiders.
Chiefs Pride. Some Patience. Please.
While schedule was a hot topic of debate amongst the faithful at the beginning of the season
The losses might have been expected, but the way most of these losses have come is what is potting Haley’s head on the block. One thing that this team had going for it last year was their discipline, the Haley tough love from 2009 had paid dividends as we were seeing the “same guys every day”. Maybe they weren’t the most talented team every week, but they remained consistent.
Fast forward to 2011. If two star playmakers going down forced this team to regress to the level of “totally inept and outplayed in every facet” in MANY games this season, when does the coach get the blame?
I applaud and give lots of credit to Haley for turning around DJ and Bowe (for the most part) and unleashing/developing Tamba, Charles, Flowers and Carr.
The questionable personnel decisions, the lack of in-game adjustments, terrible game plans and scheme, and the continued commitment to the “process” AND “putting the team in the best position to win” (which are complete contradictions at this point), all of this shows that Haley is a master motivator, but terrible game manager. Which one of those coaching traits are the most important, I don’t know, but if motivating your players alone isn’t getting you wins, them I’m inclined to think being a good game manager is more important
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 12:49 AM CST via mobile reply actions 3 recs
This is a perfect expression of where I've been since 4pm yesterday.
I’m rec’ing this, and might need to create a new login just to do it twice.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Dec 12, 2011 7:59 AM CST up reply actions
that discipline thing ... good point, and I put that on Pioli (and Haley) for grabbing Baldwin the Diva
more than that, seems to me that Haley was allowing that Diva BS in practice (the days before The Thumb incident) and should have nipped it in the bud before it came to a head (well before there was a face-off on the practice field between Baldwin and Charles … and Baldwin was an idiot for even DREAMING of saying anything to The Franchise)
ok, I’m done now :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Yes. Game mgmt was my #1 gripe against Haley.
In his 3rd year, a smart guy who prepares the way he does (did) should have made that a priority and closed the gap. To see Cassel still struggling to get the play and the offense still struggling to get lined up, to see WEAK challenges. All this says that he failed to delegate properly. Not that he didn’t delegate a LOT, but managing challenges, and so forth. That’s something a coach should be able to control. Something he should be able to find a competent staffer to handle, when he obviously can’t.
would of ≠ would've
Steve in ri,
We are on the same page. People tend to flip flop more than john kerry in an electric chair. They sail whichever way the end blows them. Some of us have our feet firmly on the ground and have been football fans for a while now and clearly see the ridiculousness they are spouting. The sad thing is that many gm’s and owners are also being in the wind. My hope is that we get a dedicated oc and have our stars on the field next year… With todd haley leading the way. i think that’s truly the best we can hope for.
by MasterChief on Dec 12, 2011 1:29 AM CST via mobile reply actions
spoken like a true Republican who wants to continue the tax cuts for the wealthy because that's the only way to get the nation out of debt :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Clark Hunt
Hunt IS THE PROBLEM. He is The new Bill Bidwell. Pioli and Haley are not going to go into season 32 million dollars under cap unless they have been ordered not to spend. I hate Clark Hunt. He cares even less about winning games than his father did and make no mistake about it ; Lamar Hunt cared more about Soccer than the Chiefs the last 25 years of his life. This organization sucks and will never be a consistent winner let alone win a Super Bowl as long as it is owned by the Hunt family.
Blah
Hunt is the owner, and that isn’t going to change. GM, head coach, coaching staff, QB, other players, these can be changed, but owner, why work yourself up over that? That won’t change, so get over it
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 1:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Blah
That is why I gave up my Season Tickets after 28 years (1981-2008). This man got $375 million in Stadium Improvements and rewarded the taxpayers with one of bottom 3 payrolls in NFL last year and possibly lowest this year. I hope they move. There are 3 or 4 teams in League who try to win that would love a fan base like there is in KC.
You really chalking up the end of your fandom because of a low payroll?
That is pretty weak, dude. Just saying
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 1:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
How is Nnamdi doing for Philly?
Haynesworth in Washington? Kolb in Arizona? How are all those big contract, cap-eating players doing for their teams?
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 2:03 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Blah
I am still a fan but I am not a fool like I was for 28 years. I can sit at home and watch an undermanned low payroll team on TV while drinking $6 worth of beer that would have cost me $35 at Stadium and save $75 on Ticket(s) and $25 for Parking each game. Chiefs have been in KC for 49 years and have never hosted an AFL-AFC Championship Game and I am certain that that is by far longest current streak in NFL.
Blah
I remember Delaney well. I was at ALL games he played at Arrowhead. He was a Hero on the field and an even greater one off it. Yet it took Hunt Family over 20 years to even recognize him and his sacrifice.
Yeah, everything that the team and the country did for his family immediately after his passing
Is all for nothing since the Hunts didn’t put him in the prestigious Kansas City Chiefs Hall of Fame until 2004. Devil owners!
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 2:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
How many years have you been a Season ticket holder?
You talk a lot . What I would like to know is you can talk the talk but have you done the walk? I DID for 28 years and watched older Season Ticket Holders in my section literally cry because they did not think they would ever see Chiefs win another Championship.
What does that have to do with anything?
I’m not old enough to have watched Delaney’s games, so does that make anything I said incorrect?
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 3:16 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
And you are saying that being closer to the salary cap would change not getting a championship?
That is what is baffling about everything you say. You blame Hunt for not spending money like that is the key to changing the Chief’s woes. They used to spend plenty of money on few agents like Ty Law, Patrick Surtain, Chester Mcglocklin, etc, and we still didn’t host a championship. What next?
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Dec 12, 2011 3:22 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
So if a guy is married for 28 years
And then starts cheating on his wife, is he still a decent husband? After all, he put in the work for 28 years!
Great, you bought season tickets for years. Good for you. But when you say crap like “I hope they move,” people are obviously going to question your fandom.
There aren’t a lot of statements that are worthy of the “you’re not a fan” speech that gets tossed around here WAY too much, but if you don’t want the Chiefs in KC, and you want another team to come in, then you’re not a Chiefs fan. You’re a football fan you used to like the Chiefs.
No shame in that, but why call a spade anything but a spade?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Didn't read the comments
but would like to comment anyway.
I personally told people around here, when asked, that I thought the Chiefs would struggle to go 8-8 this year.
However, I expected them to be competitive in every game.
That, imho, is why this season has been so disappointing. Eight and eight could damn well win the division. Getting blown out at home never figured in to my thought process.
I figured the first place schedule would be tough on us, I thought we’d win more at home and less on the road, and I obviously didn’t figure on the injuries.
BUT, I thought we’d play hard and have a chance to win most every game. That has not been the case.
Disclaimer: I think looking at a schedule and picking wins and losses is a fool’s errand, although we all do it.
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are YOUR STANZI CITY CHIEFS!!
It's not a fool's errand if you set aside your homerism for the team.
Looking at last year’s easy schedule, it was pretty obvious they’d get 3-4 wins out of the NFC West. After that you’re talking about going .500 in all their other games for 9-7 or 10-6 (which I did predict). Knowing the brutality of this year’s schedule and that the Chiefs were at best an 8-8 team last year with a tougher schedule, and how badly they lost their final 2 games, you start predicting things anywhere from 4-12 to 6-10. Even with Jamaal Charles and Eric Berry, the Chiefs wouldn’t have gone better than 8-8 without significant improvements. I think I predicted a 4-6 win season this year if you search my old comments. So with that being said, let’s look ahead to next year!
KC’s 2012 opponents
Oakland Raiders x2
Denver Broncos x2
San Diego Chargers x2
Home
Baltimore Ravens
Cincinnati Bengals
Atlanta Falcons
Carolina Panthers
AFC South Opponent
Away
Cleveland Browns
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
New Orleans Saints
Pittsburgh Steelers
AFC East Opponent
Let’s split the division games down the middle. Maybe we’ll beat Denver twice, Oakland once, and lose twice to SD, or beat them all once, or Oakland twice, SD once, and get Tebow’d twice. Whatever. 3-3 in the division sounds about right.
The Home opponents? Wow, the Chiefs are in for another hard schedule. Baltimore is a loss, Cincinatti and Atlanta is likely a split (don’t see the Chiefs winning both, but they could lose both), Carolina will be a tough game and the AFC South Opponent will be Indy if the Chiefs stay in last in the AFC West. That looks like 2-4 to me. I know Indy is terrible this year, but they are a completely different team with Manning. If they dump Manning for a rookie, this game moves to the win column, and I would guess 2-3 or 3-2 in these games.
The Road?
Cleveland is a likely win, though they could grind one out if the Chiefs have no offense. Tampa has completely regressed this year, but will be tough as it is a road game. New Orleans is an automatic loss, as are the Steelers. AFC East Opponent figures to be Miami or Buffalo, which both blewout the Chiefs in ARROWHEAD this year. So it doesn’t matter which happens. I see 2-3 at absolute best, and a worst case scenario 0-5.
Combining all that together the Chiefs are looking at 8-8 at best, and worst case scenario 5-11. No playoffs again next year without significant improvements.
This is all based on Cassel at QB
you can toss it if we get a QB that we can expand the roles of our playmakers (unlike this year)
by Steve_Chiefs on Dec 13, 2011 8:05 PM CST up reply actions
Going back to read the comments now...
just got home from work, trying to catch up.
By the way, how about that O-line? Man, Richardson, Wiegmann and Lilja are pathetic.
Ladies and Gentlemen, here are YOUR STANZI CITY CHIEFS!!
Haley's getting pretty much the results one would expect, when one sees how his guys are matching-up.
I don’t think playcalling has anything to do with their failure rate on offense. I think sheer talent is the deciding factor.
I think the Mgmt’s desire to get competitive right away, adding NFL-ready guys like McCluster, Cassel, and Arenas, for example, backfired on them this season, when key skill players went down, like JC and Moeaki. Berry’s injury set the defense back, SOME, but they’re still OK, because they’re mostly pretty sound.
If you’re losing a game of chess, the only way to get back in the game is to set traps and hope the opponent falls for them. If he doesn’t, you’re going to lose more quickly, but error-free play in a losing position leads inevitably to defeat. The unsound traps are your ONLY hope for victory, just as going to war against the U.S. was unsound, but from the Japanese side, even though they KNEW a war was unsound, they saw themselves as being inevitably throttled by European and American imperialism (controlling resources the Japanese needed to survive).
When I see how the KC O-Line doesn’t match up and how the QB and receivers can’t make up for their breakdowns, I really have nothing to say about the playcalling. It’s like worrying about whether your doctor wears matching socks.
We can argue all day about whether it’s mainly OL or mainly QB, but they definitely need to get better at both. While I still don’t think QB is the weak link, right now, yes, even with Palko out there, I do think there are more “aware” QBs out there, who can throw the ball better. I’m just not sure I want to get an elite QB and see him have his spirit broken by a poor supporting cast. I’m a LITTL bit worried right now about just how Bowe feels about the organization. We talk about stealing Fitz from AZ, but I’m not sure this outfit can keep Bowe from heading to AZ!
would of ≠ would've
I agree
No one short of Lombardi could have done any better with the hand Clark Hunt gave to Pioli and Haley and that was before the injuries.
Yeah I know
Berry, Flowers, Carr, Hali, DJ, Lewis, Houston, Jackson… not a lick of talent on that defense, right?
And who could win with losers like Charles, Moeaki, Bowe, Breaston, McClain, Asamoah, Albert, and Baldwin on their offense?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Good Post Steve
And you are not the last guy supporting the coach. There are actually more than it would seem because we spend so much time here at AP. Thanks for your viewpoints. What is going to be interesting now is to see if this whole Pioli/Haley thing has any legs at all.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
" I believe you have to be a glass half full person in this league, you really do."--Todd Haley
I was no fan of Haley, but Pioli seems to be getting a pass for the team failures.
I know you are not supposed to use injuries as an excuse, but the Chiefs were dealt a pretty tough hand early.
The lack of team depth is usually something I would point out as a failing of the guy in charge of player procurement. ie. Pioli. I know that very good coaches seem to be able to develop players that are not top line talent, but I really have to question the belief that the Chiefs have offensive players that could be expected to step in for those that were lost and continue to move the team forward.
So who is responsible for the lack of a back up QB, TE, and RB?
My 2011 Lions season prediction: 12 wins and 4 losses. I made this prediction the week after the New England preseason game. Well, so much for that prediction. 10 and 6 anyone?
Depth a problem? I don't think so.
We have numerous starters who would make wonderful depth, if Pioli had done a better job of getting better STARTERS.
would of ≠ would've
Good point here
Go back to the thread where Matt Cassel was announced as injured. You would have thought we captured Bin Laden again. People were ecstatic! Play Palko! Let’s see what he can do, even as people who had seen him play warned everyone else that Tyler Palko throws worse than Tim Tebow. They compete well in two straight games at New England and home to Pittsburgh (even though our offense has officially lost any firepower it had left) yet APers act stunned that we lost those games to two division leaders. Not proud of the effort, but stunned that we didn’t keep the Pats closer and couldn’t beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. The same Pittsburgh Steelers that nobody thought we were going to beat in the first place. Terrible coaching though, for sure, is what kept us from winning those games.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 12, 2011 1:26 PM CST reply actions
Thanks for writing this
You wrote what I have been thinking.
It seems like a sad day to me – and a dumb move.
Many on this forum act like the Roman mob in the forum.
for playing palko 3 weeks in a row alone
is reason enough to be fired. and this offense looked god awful even at the start of the year & the passing game went down the shitter. Maybe thats a lot to do with the o-coordinator as well, but too pass so terribly all yr long, then put palko in & see how he performed & not replace him isn’t acceptable in my books.
this also only helps us play for a higher pick, which i don’t mind.
Meh. I'm one of very few who don't judge Palko too harshly.
I have a fairly pessimistic take on how much good ANY QB could do with the inconsistencies all around him. Has Palko made plenty of mistakes? Sure. To be expected from a 1st-time starting QB. As with Cassel, I’m STILL not sure just how good the guy could be, if the OL had its shit together and he had one or two things he could actually COUNT on happening.
would of ≠ would've
My guess is Haley will have a long and successful coaching career.
Can’t say the same for Pioli. A franchise qb is the only thing that can save him now.
good post!
This is an excellent post that makes several strong arguments. You really provided some perspective that is convincing IMO. People forget that best-case for a healthy team was 7-8 wins, so basically as bad as the Chiefs have been at times they are on track for that win total, and since they are missing 4 of their best players one can argue that they actually overachieved this year.
My one criticism of Haley is sticking with Palko after it was obvious to all that the guy does not deserve to be a starting QB in the NFL.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Arrowhead Pride
Related FanShots on Arrowhead Pride
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
SBNation.com Recent Stories
In Association With
Shutdown Corner - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
- Detroit Lions DT Nick Fairley arrested again; now has more NFL arrests than NFL sacks
- Former high-school star Brian Banks does serious time on trumped-up charge, now hopes for an NFL shot
- Former ‘idiot kicker’ Mike Vanderjagt in trouble after accosting junior-high heckler
- Adrian Peterson blows teammates away in footraces; appears to be on the mend
- UPDATE: Charlie Sheen didn’t buy Lawrence Taylor’s Super Bowl ring
