Pioli/Chiefs Quotes from "War Room"
I put together a list of best quotes and passages from "War Room". One of the most interesting books I have ever read. These quotes do not do the book justice and I highly recommend it. I leave it feeling even more respect for Pioli and with fully belief in the system.
Patriot Years
-Pioli and Belichick settled on Stephen Jackson before Vince Wilfork fell to them
-Huge scouting rift between scouts and Belicek on the Maroney and Chad Jackson picks. Belichick wanted the players and scouts/Pioli didn’t. Led to the unravelling of things.
-Belichick on the Patriots system in the draft “The first round you want guys with the fewest questions. The second round you find a lot of players with first round talent but not first round performance or production. The third round, you see guys who are maybe better football players than a lot of guys in the second, but dont have the measurements. The highest bust factor is in the second.
Pioli Interview/First Year
-Hunt thought just getting Pioli to interview was good. When he accepted, Hunt was ecstatic.
-Pioli to Hunt during interview on all organizations but later it said how the Chiefs personified this: “There’s this living, breathing dysfunction with football organizations and it pits lifetime employees vs. temporary employees. It’s insane. You need the help of all these people to do the job well. It’s not just the players. It’s the equipment people, the grounds crew, community relations, marketing...”
-Came here because of his love for Lamar Hunt and because he feels like it would be the ultimate challenge to win a championship here.
-Said the first week in the office he saw this as copies were printed out in all color for no reason costing the organization minimum $10,000 per year for no reason.
-Also saw it when scouts were messing around and surfing the internet during tape review.
-As soon as he got in, he tried to get Gonzalez to stay by selling him on a rebuild but Tony balked and wanted out.
-Book vaguely blames the 3 months of prep time as the reason for the first year draft not panning out
Pioli Offseason 2011
-After last year “We’re just not good enough. At the end of the year, when we couldn’t sneak up on teams and we played good teams, we felt it. What do we need? There aren’t many positions we can look at and say we don’t need help there. We’ve got holes today, but we also have holes a year from now. I’ve seen a great roster. We are so far away from a great roster. So far away. You know we couldn’t get anyone open to catch a pass in the play-offs.”
-In Mobile for Senior Bowl, Chiefs scout Jim Nagy wanted two guys Rodney Hudson and Ricky Stanzi.
-Nagy on Hudson- “This guy is gonna be a good pro. Really impressive guy. He was essentially an offensive line coach on the field”
-Nagy on Stanzi- “If I could pick a quarterback who we will all look back at in 5 years and say ‘Can you believe he lasted that long,’ it would be Stanzi. Most improved player I saw all year. He was watching tape of Senior Bowl practice on his own.
-Haley is a huge Zorn fan and considers Zorn to be a Quarterback guru, which admittedly he is not.
-Chiefs beat out the Titans and Jags for Zorn.
-Each scout report asks six questions in the Chiefs scouting system
- What will this player’s role be as a Chief?
- Will the role change from year one to year two?
- How many downs can he be expected to play?
- Which current player on the roster will he beat out?
- What’s his value on special teams?
- Does he have positional versatility?
-On how the scouts see Weigman: They rave about his durability, toughness and willingness to compete, but all agree that his starting days are over.
-Pioli high on Pouncey and Jason Kelce, who reminds him of Dan Koppen and Olin Kruetz. Kelce sounds like a perfect Chief “throwback, mean, nasty, agressive”
-Scouts on Ingram: “For the Chiefs, he is a younger, more athletic version of Thomas Jones. He’s not as fast as Jamaal but is a more complete back that can stay healthy on the field for three downs. See him as a replacement for Jones and a compliment to Charles.” However, Chiefs brass knew they were not spending a first rounder on Running Back.
-Final Question to all first rounders, “Is he a guy who can help us win championships or a guy who will be the REASON we could win championships.”
The Draft
-One of the top 3 players on the Chiefs board was Aldon Smith.
-Pioli was willing to trade up 6 spots from 21 to 15 to take Mike Pouncey but could not agree on a deal. They viewed him as “day one starter int he league, with smarts, toughness, and the type of talent to transform the entire line.”
-Chiefs felt good at 21 because they saw several players that they would take. Deal from Cleveland was “too good to ignore”.
-Haley “delighted” at the Baldwin pick. Chiefs are “thrilled” to get him because Haley gets the most out of wide receivers. Haley saw the same traits in Baldwin that he saw and brought out in Fitzgerald, Owens, and Keyshawn. Specifically picked him because of how the Ravens took Bowe out of the game.
-Falcons rated Wisnewski as a “fourth or fifth rounder”
-Rams called the Chiefs and offered 112 in the fourth for our 118 in the fourth and 223. Pioli turned it down. 112 was Greg Salas and 118 was Jalil Brown. Haley excited about Brown. Pioli, “He’s got a chance to be a good player.”
-Chiefs looking to deal up to get ahead of Buffalo at 133 for Stanzi. Calls the Ravens and offers our fifth (135) and one of the two 7ths we have next year. Ozzie Newsome calls back and wants next years 5th. Pioli says no. Pioli thinks he has a deal with Houston for 127, so much so that he called our guy in New York and wrote down Stanzi’s name, but the Texans pick instead. Colts call and offer next years 4th for our 5th this year and Pioli says no. Stanzi is approaching. Dallas calls and want to give up 143 and 175 for 135. Pioli says no again sensing Stanzi. Buffalo picks Johnny White at 133 and we get Stanzi.
-Chiefs picked Gabe Miller off his individual workout, which was so good scouts talked about it around the office.
-Hunt says to Houston “I’m excited to see you play.” Houston says back, “And I am going to make sure I give you a reason to notice me on the field. I’m excited to play.”
-Pioli has his eye on Kelce at 199. Pioli is stunned when Philadelphia picks him.
-New target at 199: Powe. Concerns- Health and Weight. Scouts were fine on his intelligence and Pioli was livid when it was even brought up because he was dealing with Attention Deficit Disorder and was a determined student who got respect in the classroom. Haley tells him to keep in shape.
-Everyone thought the last day of this year’s draft was very good.
And Finally, Pioli drives around town dreaming of places to hold the Championship parade and settled on Union Station.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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Well looks like I know what I am
buying ASAP. Being a fan of two teams has its merits. Stanzi must be a steal if that many teams wanted to trade for him.
by Casey Byron Adkins on Nov 9, 2011 11:51 PM CST reply actions
it is an excellent book well worth reading
to clarify about Stanzi, those other teams weren’t necessarily trading up to get Stanzi specifically. That is not what the book says. Pioli just was worried about Stanzi and didn’t want to trade down (and tried to trade up as stated above). Those other teams were coming up for their own reasons.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
buy it. confirms what many believe.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
So why are we watching Wieg's get pushed around? After last game getting handled
by the NT we need to see some new blood.
Our hole team got manhandled by everyone.
I wouldn’t rush Hudson out just yet. Keep giving him the Asamoah treatment and we’ll have a badass line in a year or two.
All depends on where the rookie is, right now.
Apparently, he’s not quite ready, or their natural reluctance to make changes (since so many are forced on you, by fate?) is holding the trigger-finger.
The admission that Wiegmann isn’t really a starter likely indicates that Hudson’s even less so. I’d LOVE to see somebody at least a LITTLE bigger give the Chiefs something MORE in the middle. That said, facing Denver, this week, maybe the quicker, craftier veterans will be of more use against a d-line that is maybe a year or two away from being where Fox likes his d-line to be.
would of ≠ would've
Hudson
Did not look ready in the preseason.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I don't think Haley and Pioli would agree that Casey "isn't a starter"
And, from what I’ve seen… he still IS playing like a starter
Truer words were never spoken..
The highest bust factor is in the second.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
As a general principle, for a team that's already fairly well-constructed. Not so much for KC in '09-'11 drafts,
since there were so many ways to make the team better, they could err towards high FLOOR, and still do the team a lot of good. They didn’t have to take a lot of risks in order to get significant upgrade, since the needs were so many.
would of ≠ would've
I didn't really understand Belichick saying that
when his mojo seems to be collecting as many 2nds as he can.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Outstanding post!
Thank you!
Huzzah! Fantasy football has returned, allowing me to slap my opponents (family members) across the face with my favorite pair of white satin gloves. En garde, monkeys!
This was excellent reading.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
SPOILER ALERT dude
I’m only through chapter 4 so far. Damn work gets in the way of leisure reading. But even the stuff beyond the Chiefs related is absolutely fascinating.
By the way, I’m gonna try piecing together the draft rating system utilized in the Belichick/Parcells/Pioli school and post a thread as the season dwindles down where we can get our AP faithful to start rating prospects the same way our scouts and GM do.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
From reading the book, mangina's rating system seems very interesting...
The way he was gushing for, and originally signed Danny woodhead.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 12:01 PM CST up reply actions
I just finished the book last night, and was going to do a post just like this....
To add to what was said:
Haley loved Julio Jones. Jones went back to Haley’s to play him ping pong…highly competitive.
Haley and Gabe Miller (?) had a connect with hockey.
When Tom Dimitroff called Belichick and told him he had an agreement with Cleveland to trade up to grab Julio Jones, Belichick said that he wouldn’t do the deal….Belichick then goes on to tell him just to stay where he is and draft Baldwin, who Belichick sees as being as good, if not better than Jones.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 11:55 AM CST reply actions
Which makes you wonder if Pioli's endorsement of the trade up was a way of ensuring Baldwin's availability
The only thing is that the relationship between Pioli and Dimitroff leads me to believe that he wouldn’t abuse his friend’s trust like that. Although, I’m only through Chapter 4 so I don’t know if there was a fallout that occurs later, but I’d doubt it based on their interactions I’ve seen recently and the overall closeness of their relationship.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
They're like brothers.
And I don’t believe that was the case. Pioli thought Aldon Smith was going to last longer, and then had contemplated and tried to trade up to draft Pouncey. The Julio Jones trade up was dreamed about months before, and in essence, was executed before the draft. All that to say that I’m not sure Pioli even had Baldwin in his top 5 or so….
He wanted Smith or Pouncey (both in his top 3).
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 12:33 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah. Baldwin was chosen for up-side. The red flags normally would've scared Pioli away in the 1st.
or at least that’s what I THINK.
would of ≠ would've
probably.
Though according to the book, Pioli wanted a receiver like him because of the playoff loss to the Ravens. Either way, a full year under Haley should make him fun to watch in 2012.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
Also, josh mcdaniels and his brother were the ones who influenced Belichick into taking Maroney
But yes, reading that Pioli was against Chad Jackson was redemptive for me
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 12:20 PM CST reply actions
Also, Pioli got Cassel because he knew Belichick better...
And he knew Belichick wanted to act fast so they could free up the tag money for free agents. He didn’t trust three team trades, and liked having second round picks better than firsts.
( was trying to orchestrate a three team deal to give the Pats a first)
Pioli also knew Vrabel would most likely get cut in NE because of his age and cap number
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 12:38 PM CST reply actions
I know what I'm getting this weekend
Skyrim might get in the way of some reading time though :-)
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Nov 10, 2011 1:47 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I just recently discovered the Elder Scrolls series about a month ago.
Still hooked on Oblivion and trudging my way through that. Considerin how many side quests and missions there are on that one, I think I’ll be asking family to get Skyrim for xmas for me. By then I should be mostly done with Oblivion.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
Skyrim is coming out too soon
Must…….beat……..Arkham City first
"The Chiefs only won last season's opener against the Chargers because of the monsoon that night".........yeah because it only rains on one team at a time!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 10, 2011 3:36 PM CST up reply actions
So many good games in the pipeline right now.
I’m thinking all those gamefly commercials on ESPN might’ve nailed me. With MW3, BF3, Skyrim, Arkham City, all recently or about to release, I don’t think I can justify getting all of them and yet I have a overwhelming need to try all of them.
You can't spell Power without Powe.
I got MW3...
It’s alright. I’m digging the pointstreak setup and the new game mode “kill confirmed”. But word of warning… the game needs patched ASAP. Hit detection is shit, the hit boxes on the snipers are huge, and all the guns are essentially the same within their class. A bunch of small tweaks need made here and there, but it’s fun. I’m hoping Infinity ward is already working on a post launch patch.
Both those games look SO badass
Too bad the missus won’t let me spend all my time on the PS3…must…have…games…
The new Ghost Recon is next on my radar.
Trust me
You will not regret getting Batman……..the game looks and feels so good, my girl watches me play like it’s a movie
"The Chiefs only won last season's opener against the Chargers because of the monsoon that night".........yeah because it only rains on one team at a time!
by Hail2DaChiefs on Nov 15, 2011 12:50 PM CST up reply actions
Lots of good games out now
Mario Land 3D
Skyrim
BF3
MW3
Skyward Sword
on and on…
Christmas is going to be huge for games.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:02 PM CST up reply actions
Is this an insult?
“-Came here because of his love for Lamar Hunt and because he feels like it would be the ultimate challenge to win a championship here.”
Sounds like a guy that eat's iron and chits bullets.
Good for him taking on a challenge. I’m glad we got him.
by Tomahawk29 on Nov 10, 2011 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
He didn't say anything about "ultimate challenge," if that's what you are referring to.
It was more like he wanted to go to a passionate city and build a perennial contender for fans.
Lamar had been secretly sending Pioli letters of encouragement for a couple years, after they met. It touched Pioli. He didn’t forget about it…and coupled with Hunt’s contributions to the NFL and Randy Lerner wanting Pioli to have Mangina as his head coach, Pioli chose KC over Cleveland.
I think for him it would be the ultimate reward….though it has been a challenge.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:26 PM CST up reply actions
no, there was nothing like that sentiment in any of the book
he had great respect for the history and organization of the chiefs and Hunt family. It was interesting reading about his impressions of how shitty the organization was on the inside.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
"settled on Stephen Jackson..."
i don’t even want to imagine what NE’s offense would have been like with Stephen Jackson and Tom Brady. that would have been damn scary.
For Steven Jacksons own sake
I hope that he does not read this book.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Can we get over Stanzi is going to be a stud talk
70 QB"s taken in rounds 5-7 since 2000.Only 4 have started a playoff game.If I had a dollar
for every time I heard someone said a guy was the next Tom Brady,I could retire.Ken Dorsey,Marc Bulger,Craig Krenzell,Kliff Kingsbury etc… He was taken in the 5th round for a reason.He has a chance to be a good backup,but that is it.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 5:59 PM CST reply actions
The thing is... Pioli did draft Tom Brady.... and Matt Cassel....
2 of those 4 late round QBs to play a playoff game came from Pioli’s picks.
If I had to pick the next late round QB to start a playoff game I’d have to go with the QB that was picked by the GM with the highest success rate in late round QBs…
So, you are saying that he is the next Tom Brady and you would give up two drafts for him?
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 6:59 PM CST up reply actions
If he was yes but he isn't so no
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:11 PM CST up reply actions
I am just messing with you.
You get so worked up about this quarterback stuff, it is amusing.
Watching everyone argue with your “out of left field” solutions is good stuff too.
Rick(-y) Stanzi is a 5th Round project with some upside, until he proves he doesn’t have any upside. He could be the best QB KC has ever seen, or he could be a QB that will never see the field. It is all guess work at this point, there is no ‘fact’ about the guy’s future.
Most likely he will be a backup that everyone will scream for until he proves he isn’t good enough to be on the field, but who knows? Maybe the Chiefs will “Luck” out with him.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:27 PM CST up reply actions
Haha
I hope he is, that would be great.I would have no problem admitting I was wrong,in fact I would love to be wrong on him.I just think a lot of people are getting excited over nothing
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions
People get fired up about the QB position around here.
If the Chiefs did ever draft a first found QB, this place would have a meltdown everyday.
I am not wildly predicting that, it is just the truth. AP would go insane with the Chiefs picking a top tier QB in a draft, we already go crazy over late round QB’s.
Remember when we traded for Trent Green, we were going crazy. Vermeil + Green = Super Bowl. Wish I could pull up some old KC Star forum quotes. Where is RaiderHa8er when you need him?
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
Yes, they do.
That’s why I’m glad Pioli’s calling the shots. He isn’t going to do a stupid Montana-Bono-Grbac sort of thing. There are (imo) a lot more good QBs in this league than there are solid teams that are good enough for them to strut their stuff.
Kurt Warner was NEVER going to take a team on his shoulders, but he DID have it in him to elevate a GOOD team, with GREAT wideouts. There aren’t many teams that would give Brady what HE needs in order to wow all o us, either, imo.
Before really getting serious about moving on from Cassel to a new guy, I really want to see more dominance from the team around him, both to get a TRUE read of his up-side and to prepare the way for a shiny new QB, if Cassel ultimately disappoints. The YEARS of spending draft picks and franchise-type money on FA QBs, not to mention the utter failure of the Blackledge pick, has me HIGHLY averse to “fixing” QB before the team is really ready.
That said, please don’t conclude that I’m a Bono or Grbac hater. In Grbac’s case, in particular, I think KC got a plenty good QB, but failed to create a situation in which he could reach his potential. And what they gave UP to get that plenty good QB slowed them down even MORE on team-build. But you can go back even further to Bono, and consider where that team in the ‘90s might’ve ended up if they’d just stood pat with Gannon and gone ape-shit for OT and WR…
would of ≠ would've
losing Gannon hurt...
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 11:01 PM CST up reply actions
A coach and FO who totally misunderstood the QB position.
Then Marty went to SD and worked the same “magic,” throwing away QBs until sticking with the 1st-rounder he was obliged to stick with. Meanwhile, Brees goes on to New Orleans and wins a ring.
would of ≠ would've
I agree to an extent
this team isnt ready, its not like its just a QB away…maybe in 2 years or so
I just want to see stanzi before we make any rash decisions on taking barklay or whoever in the first
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
I can understand wanting to see Stanzi.
I saw enough of him to know he has exceptionally good feet for a guy his size. I’m not sure he’s processing the field at that high a level, yet, and I’m not sure seeing him play right now will necessarily give an instant reading for his ultimate up-side. I would not base my 1st-round QB decision on watching Stanzi in 2011.
What I see on the field, right now, is a team that might be able to prosper with a better QB, but not a team that I want to waste time chasing Mr. Goodbar at QB until I feel better about the rest of the squad. With one or two new faces up front, they MIGHT be ready to go after QB, but I’d still want to give the new kid some time to learn, before throwing him into the fire. Let the OL establish something, first, would be my approach.
I don’t want to just win games or just make playoff appearances. I want to WIN championships, and build a top-to-bottom team. I want any high QB pick I make to step into a situation that he can elevate to a championship and not elevate to a 10-6 record, followed by an early playoff exit. The irony, for “Suck for Luck” guys is that they want to put a great QB on an incomplete team, when history suggests that good QBs appear out of nowhere, when your team-build principles are sound.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Nov 20, 2011 2:58 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
This:
It is all guess work at this point, there is no ‘fact’ about the guy’s future.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:38 PM CST up reply actions
And how the hell do you know, Nostradamus?
And nothing above says Stanzi is Brady. Talk to the scouts…but, oh wait, you’re smarter than everyone.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:29 PM CST up reply actions
If you want to bank on a 5th round pick be my guest
Meanwhile,I will look at the data to come up with my conclusion.Overwhelming data clearly shows,that 5th round QB don’t make an impact.That is not me making stuff up,that is a fact.I hope i’m wrong and he beats the odds.But,he is a long shot at best.By the way it’s not about being psychic or being smarter than everyone.It is called looking at data and information to come up with a conclusion.Try it sometime
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:40 PM CST up reply actions
What is wrong with just calling him along shot,
Instead of just blatantly saying he will fall?
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:41 PM CST up reply actions
a long
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
Fail
epic*
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:42 PM CST up reply actions
I was talking to this guy above
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
I was just asking in general. It is an open blog.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:45 PM CST up reply actions
I'm not saying hr will absolutly fail
but it is very very likely he will based on the evidence
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
If Cassel can make it....
I won’t say Stanzi will be an elite qb, but I will say he is, for the most part, already better than Cassel.
But that’s my very strong opinion. I wouldn’t dare state it as fact without seeing him on the field with the ones.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:53 PM CST up reply actions
Ok ,you say that but you haven't seen him play
I have seen a few of his college games,and he has a lot of the same problems Cassel has.Cassel has won a division title ,Stanzi has not.I am just pointing out what the numbers say.What have you seen that makes you think he is ‘’already better than Cassel’’???
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 8:02 PM CST up reply actions
Again, thinking you know everything
you say that but you haven’t seen him play
I happen to be a u of Iowa alumni. I’ve seen every game Stanzi has played. Even if I hadn’t, why would it matter? Cassel never got off the bench, and Brady sure the hell wasn’t a perennial starter at Michigan.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions
He started three years of college ball, led many comebacks, including last second comebacks,
And greatly improved his TD-int ratio.
Then there was watching him in Mobile, combine workouts, and preseason.
Better accuracy, stronger arm, ability to progress through multiple receivers….
If one of Pioli’s scouts, Nagy, loves Stanzi, and Pioli wanted him, I’ll trust their PROFESSIONAL analysis over your opinion.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 9:05 PM CST up reply actions
So,you like him because you're an Iowa homer,makes sense
So if he wanted him that bad ,why didn’t he take him in the 1st round?In other words,why did no one take him till the 5th round?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 9:20 PM CST up reply actions
You make it seem like players can't be good unless they are first rounders.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 9:35 PM CST up reply actions
In the case of the QB ,yes
Look at the top 15 QB"s in the league and see how many were takin after the 1 st round.Not very many
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 9:53 PM CST up reply actions
Yes. And I think that's because everybody DOES take QB in the 1st (except Pioli).
And with so many 1st-rounders being chosen and the urgency to get those 1st-rounders on the field, the statistic is skewed. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think it’s JUST as effective to select a later-round QB every year, and give ALL your QBs better protection and targets. It maximizes your chances of hitting on a winning combination, and you’re not biased towards playing somebody just because you squandered a high pick on him. Also, a LOT of guys who MIGHT develop get passed-up, because they’re not quite NFL-ready.
And, again, you look at how GREAT Kurt Warner was, but how BAD he looked, if things were breaking down up front. Lucky for him (and us fans), he landed in a great situation in St. Louis, and found another one in Arizona. And that’s what I want to see happen in KC. Create the situation for the QB and THEN start gettin’ nit-picky about QB. Draft QB in the 1st round, if you want to fill seats, but stick to your all-around team build strategy if you want to win championships. It’s hard to be patient, and follow your best science, even though your gut tells you it sure would be nice if Cassel had eyes in the back of his head and shot lightning bolts out of his eyes.
would of ≠ would've
by hmills110 on Nov 10, 2011 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 5 recs
Well said Mills
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 10:57 PM CST up reply actions
I agree also Mills
My thing is we could at least wait and see what we have before we plan t get someone else. I would rather Stanzi become a great in house QB than us draft Luck and have him become a great QB. Why? Because we already have Stanzi. Luck is a great prospect, but he could very well be a bust or he could be like Matthew Stafford and not be able to stay on the field. It is just funny to me when people take strong stances on possibilities. None of us knows what the future holds. I trust Pioli to do what he does and turn this team into a winner. Oh, great post by the way. Rec’d.
"If ifs mattered, everyone would be undefeated." Enite
Thanks.
To me, there’s always an underrated Kerry Collins looking for work, if it comes to that. What’s hard is creating a team where a great QB is likely to last very long. And by the time you have THAT, you have solid QBs coming out your ears. A lot of QBs out there who can make great throws with that ONE extra second, either off the play fake or just because their OL is dominating the opposing DL.
I love the GREAT QBs, but I respect them too much to want to throw them into the fire, behind a 2nd-tier team. That’s how people get hurt, or QB development gets derailed.
Pioli did a pretty good thing, bringing a tough, hard-working QB to get the ball rolling. I thought KC would’ve been better off just drafting OL like crazy, and improving their 4-3 on the other side of the ball, by drafting or stealing shut-down corners, and going blitz-happy. Especially in a league where guys who are big enough to hold up in the trenches are too slow to track down the best QBs, so you have to blitz ANYway, against the better QBs.
would of ≠ would've
Since 2000, 28 quarterbacks have been drafted in the first round. Of that total, only 14 were starting-caliber players with the potential to carry their team to the playoffs. A major portion of that 14 has come in the last three years, with six first-round picks since 2008 now starting for their respective teams.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 10:32 PM CST up reply actions
haha. i knew you would say that.
you suppose that I hadn’t seen him play. then I say I’ve seen all of his games, and now….now I only like him because I’m a homer….
And yet, I love the Chiefs and am critical as hell (not a homer). Hmm….Everything conveniently proves your point in your world.
So…if I also said that I have watched all of Andrew Luck’s games and got my MA from Standford, would I be a homer for wanting him?
I actually really like Luck, and despite liking Stanzi, would love for Luck to be a Chief, though that seems impossible at this point. Still, wanting Luck, I still think Stanzi will be an above average NFL starting QB, because I also believe he’d be better in many aspects than Matt Cassel is right now….and Cassel, who was a 7th rd pick and never was a starter, was a pro bowler and happens to be an NFL starter.
If you were a Patriot fan, you would have eaten crow twice….once on Brady and once on Cassel.
Anyway, why didn’t Pioli take him in the first? How about Pioli is committed to Cassel? At least for this year. Got him shiny new toys and an actual qb coach. If he fixes his line, Cassel has no more excuses. But bringing in a 1st rd for his boy? When Cassel has been a serviceable QB and this team is full of holes? How about the money that would have to be paid to two QBs then? The pressure to start a rookie qb?
How many of those 1st round QBs play for a team that went to the playoffs last year? How many play for a team in the playoff hunt this year? How many of those QBs have been starting since the very first game of the season?
And how about this one….how many years did Aaron Rodgers sit as Favre’s backup? And then, when he actually got to play, how long did it take for him to turn into Aaron Rodgers?
What was Peyton Manning’s record his first season?
What is the record of the team the #1 pick plays for?
What happened to Jamarcus Russell? Ryan Leaf? Danny Wuerffel?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
Ok Pioli didn't take him in the 1st round because he had cassel
Even if I accept that (which I don’t) then why did every other team pass on him 4 times?If he has the talent ,surley a team would have drafted him sooner.But he was the 8th QB taken.And by the way,that is about where most scouts had him going.There are busts in the 1st round at QB.But ,even by your admission above,half of the 28 taken were starting calibar QB’s.Now,I am going to go back and check that out,but giving you the benefit of the doubt ,that is 50%.That is still a lot most than the 5% taken in rounds 5-7 that started a playoff game.And I don’t know what your criteria is ,but all I wanted was 1 playoff start.I would much rather take my chances with a guy in the 1st round ,than hope and pray for a once in a lifetime player in a later round. P.S Wuerful wasn’t a 1st round pick,he was taken in the 4th round.Another mid round QB that failed,
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 11:31 PM CST up reply actions
But given that the draft is not until after the year is over
Why not play Stanzi now and see what he’s got?
I haven’t heard your specific thoughts on that particular plan.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 11:50 PM CST up reply actions
It pains me to say it
But I think Cassel gives us the best chance to win.And we are playing for a division title after all.God forbid, if we are 5-9 going into the last 2 games of the season,then you play him.But until/if that happens ,he belongs on the bench.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 12:00 AM CST up reply actions
But with 2 games hardly being enough to judge...
I see what you’re saying, but I’m more on the lines of sooner rather than later, to get a decent sample size
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 11, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
It's like the Giants awhile back
Kurt Warner was 5-3 as a starter.The Giants were very much in the playoff race.But ,Coughlin benched him in favor of Manning and the team fell apart.Now,it worked out long term,but it ruined the season.There was no bigger suck for Luck guy than me.But now,they have to win.If this team finishes 7-9 and misses the playoffs,I will throw up in my mouth.IT would truly be a disaster,considering what we could have had.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 11:38 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't call it a disaster
What’s worse, 7-9 and a shot at RG3 or one of the “other 3” QB’s, or 9-7, killed in the playoffs, and a MUCH harder time trading up to get one?
Either way, I think we’ve seen Matt’s ceiling, and it’s not high enough (although he’s still got 2 weeks to prove me wrong)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 11, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
I'm not entirely sold on RG3
Doesn’t baylor run a spread offense
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
Partly
More importantly though, he’s got great accuracy, throws a wonderful deep ball, and goes through his progressions quickly
Given the direction the NFL has taken has of late, running a borderline-spread in college isn’t nearly as harmful as it once was. The game has changed, and with it the requirements for a QB.
He’s got the arm, the accuracy, the smarts, and off the charts athleticism. And he makes a terrible team look decent.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I disagree
Spread offense is a huge red flag.That is why Luck is so highlty touted. Remember Gailey ran a pistol offense in 08
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 8:30 PM CST up reply actions
Spread offense WAS a huge red flag
A few years ago. Now? Not nearly as much from what I’ve seen, with this years QB class’s success.
And Luck is highly touted for a variety of reasons, not just the fact that they run a pro style offense. Crap, so did Stanzi, the guy you know for a fact is a backup at best.
Regardless, I’ve seen RG3 go from behind center plenty, so they must not run a pure spread…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 12, 2011 12:06 AM CST up reply actions
Ok over or under
Wins/playoffs/Super Bowels Luck vs Stanzi vs RG3.I will give my house+ 401 k lLuck is the most successful QB out of the 3/I have NO DOUBT about that.You on?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 12, 2011 2:36 AM CST up reply actions
I don't bet
But odds are Luck with be, barring injury or horrifyingly poor coaching/GM decisions, the most successful QB in the draft. He’s a great prospect.
That said, my only point was that the reason he’s a great prospect isn’t primarily that he’s playing in a pro-style offense, as you implied.
It’s certainly a part of it, but not the main reason. I’d say his accuracy and field awareness are the biggest reasons, very closely followed by a big arm and incredible understanding of the game.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
All that said, it doesn't really matter
I’m very tired of any time someone tries to talk about a QB prospect, someone always comes back with, “Luck’s way better!”
That may very well be, but we don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting Luck.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
we won't get RG3 if we go 7-9
His stock is rising.
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
by trentchiefsfan on Nov 11, 2011 12:40 PM CST up reply actions
After the loss to the dolphins, do you honestly think this season has meaning?
Just seeking an honest opinion. Maybe I should ask after the Denver game.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions
yes
This is a very weak division this year.Chiefs could win it at 8-8.Since we aren’t getting Luck ,the only thing that would make me feel even remotely better is winning the division.But that’s just my opinion.If we lose against denver ,we are in big trouble
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
That is all that I am saying.
Why be down on the guy with no proof that he will fail. Why not just let him try first? Giving him a shot to be decent in your mind isn’t going to keep the Chiefs from drafting a QB next year.
We have only seen him in the preseason and you already say that:
He was taken in the 5th round for a reason. He has a chance to be a good backup, but that is it.
You used the word chance, he has the chance to be a solid starter or more at this point, or complete garbage. It may not be much of a chance, but there is a shot he can be anything.
Why just dismiss him completely?
I didn’t really like him in the draft, but he looked feisty in the preseason. If nothing else he seems like a gamer.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:55 PM CST up reply actions
If the weather man says there is a 5% chance of rain
Then you probably don’t put a rain coat on.If he really gave us a better chance than Cassel,then why hasn’t he even been active this year?After all,Hayleys job is on the line
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 8:06 PM CST up reply actions
I think they are just taking it slow with some of the rookies. (Hudson, Powe, Stanzi)
I disagree with not having him active, but I don’t think it is a question of skill with Stanzi. I think Haley is doing the slow mind trick BS with him.
Will it work?
Maybe, it is definitely worth a shot, but I would rather see him out there learning on Sunday’s.
I don’t think Todd’s job is on the line at this point, and I don’t think Ricky Stanzi would save him even if it was.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:11 PM CST up reply actions
If Hayley goes 6-10,I think he is in trouble
I wish we were drafting Luck ,but that isn’t going to happen
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 8:22 PM CST up reply actions
Who else do you like
Top Draft 2012 Prospects — (Updated 11/9/2011)
Rank Player Pos. Position
Rank School Class Ht. Wt. 40 Time
1 *Andrew Luck QB 1 Stanford rJr 6-4 235 4.73
2 *Matt Barkley QB 2 Southern California Jr 6-2 220 4.74
8 *Landry Jones QB 3 Oklahoma rJr 6-4 230 4.74
20 Ryan Tannehill QB 4 Texas A&M rSr 6-4 222 4.65
21 *Robert Griffin QB 5 Baylor rJr 6-2 220 4.52
70 Brandon Weeden QB 6 Oklahoma State rSr 6-4 218 4.92
108 Kirk Cousins QB 7 Michigan State rSr 6-3 205 4.80
129 Nick Foles QB 8 Arizona rSr 6-5 240 4.96
153 Ryan Lindley QB 9 San Diego State rSr 6-4 230 4.92
169 Russell Wilson QB 10 Wisconsin rSr 5-11 210 4.59
186 Kellen Moore QB 11 Boise State rSr 6-0 195 4.98
203 Case Keenum QB 12 Houston rSr 6-1 210 4.94
222 Dominique Davis QB 13 East Carolina rSr 6-3 212 4.65
228 Patrick Witt QB 14 Yale rSr 6-3 220 4.87
246 Chandler Harnish QB 15 Northern Illinois rSr 6-2 220 4.78
263 Aaron Corp QB 16 Richmond rSr 6-3 205 4.76
278 John Brantley QB 17 Florida rSr 6-3 220 4.89
289 Austin Davis QB 18 Southern Mississippi rSr 6-1 221 4.78
299 G.J. Kinne QB 19 Tulsa rSr 6-1 234 4.75
325 B.J. Coleman QB 20 Chattanooga rSr 6-3 220 4.93
352 Jordan Jefferson QB 21 LSU Sr 6-4 223 4.64
365 Jacory Harris QB 22 Miami (Fla.) Sr 6-3 195 4.75
402 Marshall Lobbestael QB 23 Washington State rSr 6-3 215 4.87
408 Jarrett Lee QB 24 LSU rSr 6-2 206 4.74
453 Stephen Garcia QB 25 South Carolina rSr 6-2 232 4.85
461 Brian Reader QB 26 Idaho Sr 6-2 220 4.97
464 Zach Collaros QB 27 Cincinnati rSr 6-0 218 4.77
526 Matt Scott QB 28 Arizona Sr 6-3 195 4.63
549 Chester Stewart QB 29 Temple rSr 6-3 215 4.74
571 Tyler Lantrip QB 30 Nevada Sr 6-4 220 4.78
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:25 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe they are secretly dreaming of an all Yale backfield
Bannon/Witt
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:26 PM CST up reply actions
The Chiefs really like those 6-4 QB's...
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:30 PM CST up reply actions
I'm pretty happy with riding with Stanzi and the best available QB in
the 5th round in 2012. SO THERE!
Heh. Seriously, Stanzi reminds me of a full-size Rich Gannon. Excellent escapability, good feet, quick release. Quicker feet than Croyle (who was pretty nimble, himself), and harder to beat up or bring down. Just a matter of how he processes what he’s seeing, and that visual processing piece of it is where Pioli seems to have been successful. Looking off the safety takes a lot of potentially great QBs some time to learn. Throwing hot to the area vacated by the blitzing DB takes some time to develop in most mortal humans.
Cassel was a workmanlike job of setting a solid floor for the QB position. But you can see he’s more deliberate than he is quick. He’s not a natural gun-slinger, who just uncoils like a snake, and delivers the ball where his eye is sending it, standing tall or on-the-run. He can’t just flip it on a rope, like Vick or Rodgers or Cutler or ?Newton? while he’s in the act of falling to the turf. Just watching Stanzi get blitzed all to hell in preseason tells me he has more God-given pocket awareness/quickness than Cassel, and that might be why people want to see more of him. But I don’t know if he’ll ever be half the leader or have half as good down-field awareness as Cassel, and we all question THAT.
would of ≠ would've
No one else really
I kind of like Barkley.Too many spread QB"s
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 8:37 PM CST up reply actions
I want the Chiefs to draft a kid that will stand in the pocket and deliver strikes
with no fear until they very last moment. Yet. still have the ability to get rid of the ball without panicking.
Too much to ask?
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:41 PM CST up reply actions
No ,1 of the reasons I like Luck so much
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 8:43 PM CST up reply actions
Nothing wrong with liking Luck
There is just no way in hell he will be drafted as a Chief.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:57 PM CST up reply actions
I like my suggestion
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
I know you do...
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 9:18 PM CST up reply actions
I'm semi-OK with the stand-and-deliver-type QB.
But for that to work, you really need to get your protections worked out. You don’t want the Golden Arm to suffer a Dislocated Elbow in Week 3. Build the team, first, and then, push comes to shove, there’s always a Carson Palmer or Donovan McNabb (or Drew Bledsoe) around who can THRIVE on an otherwise-dominant offense.
I think the ultimate expression of the QB position is more mobile, and we’re seeing more and more of those kinds of QBs, and most play for teams whose weakest link is the O-Line. But I have to admit that the scales ARE tilting in this league towards just getting WRs and QB and putting on a show, every week. Big Ben, Rodgers, and, yes, Cutler, have taken teams with OL questions and elevated them to the playoffs. Cam Newton’s that KIND of QB, but maybe it was too much to ask of him as a rookie.
would of ≠ would've
In our blowout losses
I’d much rather see Stanzi out there taking snaps (or even Palko for that matter) than continue seeing Cassel playing meaningless downs in the 4th quarter in games that are out of reach.
Your eyes tell you more than any statistics can.
I will say that I don't want to risk the future on Stanzi....
I would like the Chiefs to draft another QB in 2012, and sign a free agent as well.
Go into 2012 with four at camp and kick one to the curb before the season starts.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 8:07 PM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't waste time on a FA
They’re “emergency only” moves, when you pay or trade whatever you have to, but only after your starter is hurt. I’d draft one late, bring an UDFA to camp, and keep the best 3, counting the starter. If, at ANY time, the team has progressed beyond the current starter and backups, THEN you go rich at QB. The thing is, when the team has progressed to that point, chances are good that one of the 3 guys you already have can kick ass. But so few teams are that patient and systematic about team-build.
would of ≠ would've
Well if we're going with data and calling it "fact" I'll see you and raise you Tom brady and the nerd projection systems of football outsiders
Which does actually compare Stanzi to Brady.
But I didn’t make a claim either way. I just have a problem with people equating their opinions to absolute truth. You can’t know he won’t be a HOF qb anymore than anyone else can say he 100% will be.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:47 PM CST up reply actions
He has also been compared to Curtis painter,Charlie Whitehurst and yes Matt Cassel
Is a 90% chance he will fail make you feel better?Because that is what the evidence suggests.We are in a QB starved ,pass happy league.The vikings reached on Ponder in the 1st round.Yet,Stanzi lasted till the 5th round .What does that tell you?
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
Their scouts are dumb?
Where does this 90% fact come from?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:54 PM CST up reply actions
4 out of 70 is actually, what 5%
Whose scouts are dumb
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
The Vikes.
And how much of those stats are because of opportunities? Brady and Cassel both got to play when they did because of injury. What team is going to draft a qb in the first round and not give them a chance to start in year one or two? Not many, if any. Later round picks aren’t exactly going to generally playing in year one because teams don’t have the pressure to play them.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 9:11 PM CST up reply actions
they probaly aren't good enough to start
1st round QB’s get more chances to play because,generally ,they are better.That is why they go in the 1st round.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 9:15 PM CST up reply actions
if first round qbs ONLY go in round 1 because they are better....
answer 2 questions:
1) Why didn’t Brady go in round 1?
2) Does that mean that the qbs are drafted in the order of their talent? Because if only first round abs have the talent to start in year one, it would also seem to follow that the best qb gets drafted first, the second best next and so on.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 10:40 PM CST up reply actions
he is a very rare exception
You cant use an anomaly and act like it is the rule.Can Stanzi be a great QB?Sure,but it would be like me winning the lottery.Very rare and the odds are against it
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 11:13 PM CST up reply actions
lottery odds are way greater than getting a QB...
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 11:16 PM CST up reply actions
Now that's more like it
If you’d have said it like that initially, I doubt anyone but the biggest of homers would’ve argued.
Odds are he’s not that good. But we won’t know unless we give him a shot. Why not now, with our best players hurt and our odds of genuinely competing in the playoffs slim to none?
Know what i mean?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 11:47 PM CST up reply actions
I don't know that I would say slim to none for the playoffs. Our whole division sucks
And I’m not nearly as scared of the pats or steelers as I probably should be.
by ImissMontana on Nov 12, 2011 4:04 PM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
And you can't act like there aren't anomalies.
If the most talented qbs go in the first, why did Brady go at 199?
When you can admit that drafting a crapshoot and there are other circumstances, we’ll be at a middle place.
But not being drafted in the first doesn’t mean one doesn’t have the talent to be a starting qb. And if this discussion was about any other position, you wouldn’t dare say that only the best get drafted in the first.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 8:54 AM CST up reply actions
You didn't answer my second question.
We’re all the qbs in the first this year drafted in order of their talent? If not, why?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 8:56 AM CST up reply actions
Ya
Thats pretty obvious that scouts thought those guys were better than Stanzi.Are they right on that?Only time will tell.The problem is that ,fans see some busts at the QB and act like that is the norm.Likewise,we see Tom Brady and say’’see,you can get a QB in later rounds’’.Tom Brady was an aberration,a freak of nature, and fans don’t realize how special he is.Stanzi went in the 5th round,instead of 5th overall for a reason.The QB position is the most sought after position in sports.Teams reach on them all the time.So ,the fact every team passed on him at least 4 times,should tell you something. 70 Qb’s taken in rounds 5-7,and you have 1 star,Brady.I would love Stanzi to be great.But based on overwhelming odds against him,i’m not counting on it.They call them diamonds in the rough for a reason
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Freak of nature?
Physically, coming out of college they were eerily similar. In Stanzi’s favor over Brady and Cassel is that he wasn’t riding the bench.
I’m not saying he is the next Brady or Rodgers, though my opinion is that he has the potential to be from what I’ve seen of him.
What we’re missing on is that you seem to think that teams don’t make mistakes on evaluation. Great qbs have come out of every round, and even arena football.
Stanzi is being groomed as a player. If he does not end up being a starter, it will be because of brains or lack of opportunity, not talent IMO.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 12:06 PM CST up reply actions
I didn't mean Brady was a freak of nature physicaly
I never said teams don’t make mistakes evaluating players.I am just saying when you get to later rounds in the draft,the odds of getting an impact player(regardless of position) is very low.Why do you think teams throw around 5,6,7th picks in trades,but hoard 1,2,3rd picks?Because the odds are much higher getting a player early in the draft than later.That doesn’t mean you can’t get a quality player in later rounds.But the odds are much lower and they are the exception, not the rule.If Stanzi can play ,he WILL get an opportunity to prove himself in this QB driven league.I just go back to the odds are stacked against him overwhelmingly to fail. 1 great QB has come out of the of Arena football.1 great QB has come from the 6th round.Only 1 great in each case.I can’t think of another great QB taken in the 6th round in my lifetime(i’m 32 years old). It just doesn’t happen often
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 11, 2011 12:30 PM CST up reply actions
You take QBs later, and you have time to be patient and develop them.
Brady wasn’t NFL-ready out of the draft. He took almost a whole year before he started processing the game at NFL speed. That’s the thing about a 1st-round QB. You’re almost obliged to stick him right out there, and you better have your team ready to help him.
would of ≠ would've
Vikings a good case in point.
Ponder’s a little quicker afoot and McNabb’s not the dominating scrambler he once was. But NEITHER ONE is in a winning situation. Sure, Peterson’s a great one, but it sure is tough to get off a decent pass for that offense.
The statistic with which saints is bludgeoning you is flawed. But it’s still an indisputable statistic. I think you’re using a couple exceptions to disprove a general rule. I think there’s a lot behind that statistic that’s unaccounted for
would of ≠ would've
Most QB's go to a bad team
But the good ones turn around the franchise in a hurry
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 11:33 PM CST up reply actions
No. You just notice the franchises that do some other things right, along the way.
When the franchise turns it around, you can point to your QB. When they don’t, you can point at the franchise.
It’s all in how you interpret the facts and the underlying causes you assign. I just see things a WHOLE lot different than you do. A lot of what you see as causal, I see as merely a symptom of some other cause. That’s fine. We both see the world unfold pretty much as we expect, but one of us is kidding himself.
would of ≠ would've
I'm not arguing Stanzi will be a HOF qb.
But this guy seems to think NO talented qb gets drafted out of the first round.
And he still hasn’t answered for the “anomaly” to all of his argument, Tom Brady.
To make the argument that teams pick the most talented qbs first. And to have Tom Brady going at 199 does throw a wrench into his world of “facts.”
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 8:49 AM CST up reply actions
I've seen far too many journeyman QBs come in and produce for good teams
and I’ve seen far too many high draft picks have their careers shortened by too much faith and trust placed at the altar of “great QB.”
would of ≠ would've
1st round qbs get drafted in the first round because
1) they are more polished (or perceived to be)
2) there is a run on qbs, and qb needy teams draft them while they can
3) a team has no viable starter on the roster
4) to generate fan excitement/interest
5) more depth at other positions of need
6) a team cannot wait for a higher potential, but less polished qb to be “groomed.”
7) some teams are stupid?
8) it is hard to justify handing out a huge contract to a non-qb with the #1 pick
9)“nfl-ready,” (high floor, low ceiling guys)
I’m sure you can think of more reasons.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 10:45 PM CST up reply actions
by chief Stevie_k: Don't judge too harshly. Remember there's an unwritten IMHO attached to every com.
A lot of us (especially me) are free-writing what we’re THINKING, without any huge stake in being spot-on. From the READER’s point of view, someone’s lighthearted remark can come across like Moses bearing stone tablets.
Heh. All in my humble opinion, as always.
would of ≠ would've
generally
except when you see a pattern….or someone seems to start jumping on a collective group.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
the collective group as you say, still has a right to feel that way
just becuase its become a popular opinion doesnt make it less valid, less important, or something to insinuate is just an opinion shared rather than an opinion you come to on your own
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
and where's your data showing that Luck is a guaranteed franchise qb that will win multiple SBs?
There is NO guarantee and it is completely STUPID to trade 2 full drafts to draft that guy or any guy.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
actually, you cant be more wrong. do I need to link AGAIN to the website showing the links in their game?
do I really?
the lack of red flags? do we need to go there?
the improvement EVERY YEAR as a QB in college. What did brady do? he improved beyond college, something very very rare. in that respect, add in tom brady’s mentor, and you have something I like to call a comparison
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
You're probably right
But that doesn’t make it any less annoying that you’re acting as though your opinion (based on zero professional game tape) is being presented as fact.
How hard is it to preface a statement with, “odds are” or “most likely?”
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
this is true. no one is claiming stanzi to be the next brady. people have just said there are comparisons. there are things that line up, things you see that you like
whether its the mentor, the tape watching, the improvement year to year…its that type of stuff that makes a mid round pick succeed so to speak
frustrating that no matter what, we’re just fans of the backup QB. such a load of BS. I was never part of the brodie croyle fan club, I wanted him gone.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Great read.
It’s interesting to know how high Pioli and his scouts are on Stanzi. Makes me think we won’t see a QB taken with any relevant pick in 2012.
Also, that’s cool that Pioli got “livid” when Powe’s intelligence was questioned. He’s okay with bagging on the dude’s health and weight, but Powe was in fact known as a guy that fought through disabilities to get where he is. I can only hope that in another year or two Powe is “powning” teams that passed him up. He seems to have great talent at NT. I’ll be happy if he fell to us in the 6th because some jackass GMs questioned his intelligence.
Even though he ended up a Chief, he still fell all the way to pick 199
Credit needs to be reserved for that kind of free fall. Everyone skipped him, even “livid” Pioli.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:05 PM CST up reply actions
And Pioli already had a plan to draft someone else at that pick.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:30 PM CST up reply actions
Kelce....was who he was going to take there
Explains why Powe hasn’t been active yet.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:32 PM CST up reply actions
I loved the Powe pick,
it was a great get and value. However, the Chiefs skipped him several times and I am not going to sing Pioli’s praises too much for getting him there, just because everyone else passed on the guy way too long.
Powe was a great pick and I am anxious to see him on the field.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:34 PM CST up reply actions
I like Powe
But Pioli had intended to pass on him at 199. It seems certain he would have been picked by Pioli in the 7th, if still there, but when teams passed on him 6 times, there must have been concern.
That said, I think he’ll be as good next year as Gregg has been this year. It is good for Stanzi, Hudson, Powe, Brown, etc to learn from Cassel, Weigmann, Gregg, Flowers/Carr respectively.
This team will be much improved next year.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:43 PM CST up reply actions
I think Powe would be as good as Gregg if we used him now.
He is an effort beast.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:48 PM CST up reply actions
So if the 2nd round has a highest bust factor...
Why does Belichick stockpile so many 2nds? It seems like he’d avoid those and go for firsts or thirds.
Because its the lottery for him? When you have your core developed....
The second round you find a lot of players with first round talent but not first round performance or production.
In the first, you pay more. In the second, you, perhaps get a disgruntled player with a chip on his shoulder. Lower risk, higher reward.
Just think, Pioli got Houston even later.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:36 PM CST up reply actions
Houston has the chance to be something special.
It would be nice to see the Chiefs let him chase after the QB every now and again. It is hard to see what their end goal is with Houston. It is like they are working backwards with the guy.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:44 PM CST up reply actions
Maybe they want to keep OCs honest? And show he isn't necessarily in to blitz?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 7:50 PM CST up reply actions
With 9 sacks on the year
He needs to be after the QB every time. It is what he does best and the Chiefs piss it away on game day IMO.
One of the best pass rushers in college last year is chasing down coverage all the time. Why? Why? and Why?
Makes no sense.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
Ask Crennel.
Maybe our defense is just that slow.
I’d love to see Houston and Powe out there doing what they do best.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 10, 2011 9:13 PM CST up reply actions
Me too
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 9:19 PM CST up reply actions
agree. Houston looks lost out there because of what we must ask him to do without berry and others available.
heavy defensive draft to go with o-line in april imo
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
funny thing is, so many would mock us for saying that, but its true...the guy is just that good
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
train wrecked
awesome insight. bit of method behind the madness. no mention of Pioli’s thinking in the 09 draft at number 3?
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
Nothing in there about it.
Other then mentioning Berry, the only chiefs draft talk was on this April’s draft.
The first draft was complicated because Pioli, Dimitroff, and Belichick had a very specific coding for their scouting, and the chiefs in house scouts were using their old method. Not making excuses because Pioli didn’t, but apparently much of the Chiefs scouting staff were slackers….answering e-mail during an initial meeting with Pioli and giggling while watching film with Pioli in the room.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 9:02 AM CST up reply actions
As evidenced by the one good draft in 20 years
apparently much of the Chiefs scouting staff were slackers
Interestingly, Dimitroff was a part time scout for KC when he worked part time as groundskeeper for the browns starting out.
I think that would put him here during Carl’s reign. And I believe he told Pioli he never received some of his paychecks from that time working as a kc scout.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 11, 2011 12:10 PM CST up reply actions
They cetainly have played Hudson at both positions...
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 12, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
certainly that is...
Rodney Hudson should be a great Chief, but it would have been interesting to see what they might have done with Kelce in the mix.
All that said, I am glad they got Powe instead… This place would have implode if another team took Powe in the 7th and the Chiefs had guys named Kelce and Bannon on the team… just saying.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 12, 2011 9:14 AM CST up reply actions
The book did say they were strongly considering drafting 2 centers.
I’m guessing one would have ended up at LG.
Would Weigmann still be here if KC had been able to trade up and get Pouncey?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 12, 2011 6:49 PM CST up reply actions
IMO Yes
Just because he has the ability to be a starter from day one, doesn’t mean you get rid of a quality starter for no reason.
I just wonder if our draft would have ended up Pouncey…Hankerson, who knows how it would have went.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 12, 2011 7:14 PM CST up reply actions
Pioli called Pouncey a "day one starter", so where would he have played?
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
by chief Stevie_k on Nov 12, 2011 7:57 PM CST up reply actions
Just because you can start from day one, doesn't mean you do.
You don’t think Clark Hunt thinks Rodney Hudson can play now. He called him the best ever.
Situational circumstances, with Waters already cut, I doubt they lose Casey too. Though you never know.
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 12, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
yeah, look at asamoah. he was "ready" to an extent last season
he came in, and looked freaking awesome against buffalo, and that was what…week 3?(gosh that draft was awesome minus maybe dmclust
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
point being, he still didnt start for us by the end of the year
and im OK with that, because now hes one of our best lineman, on either side of the ball, and he also happens to be under 26
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
yep that REALLY was interesting to me
they were no doubt looking hard at center…pouncey failed, so they move to hudson, who with the kelce movement, seem to possibly have been viewed as a guard, which would change EVERYTHING about this upcoming draft
center is so darn important, I think we draft one come april
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Luck has looked like Cassel tonight....
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "

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