Haley and Pioli: A History of Getting Dominated
by Clay Wendler on Nov 9, 2011 8:52 PM CST
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Per 810:
In KC history, the Chiefs have lost by more than four touchdowns at home only five times, four of which have occurred under Pioli and Haley.
Read on after the jump for more meat on this topic.
Yep, these guys have a penchant for getting dominated. Let's review:
2009
Ravens 38, Chiefs 24 - A "close game," but the Chiefs get outgained 501-188. Total domination by the Ravens.
Eagles 34, Chiefs 14 - Outgained 420-196. Cassel has a 124.5 QB rating, cus he's awesome.
Giants 27, Chiefs 16 - The Chiefs score two garbage time TDs that makes the score appear closer than it really was. 429-212.
Chargers 37, Chiefs 7 - Pitiful. 403-203.
Chargers 43, Chiefs 13 - Disgusting. 426-284.
Broncos 44, Chiefs 13 - Appalling. 413-222.
2010
Broncos 49, Chiefs 29 - Suddenly, smart fans realize Pioli and Haley are huge frauds.
Chargers 31, Chiefs 0 - 426-67. Brodie Croyle, you say? I say, look at the first game of 2009. No excuses for this.
Raiders 31, Chiefs 10 - 344-201
Ravens 30, Chiefs 7 - Hey, look! 32 games into the Pioli era and the Chiefs are still getting dominated by the Baltimore Ravens! 390-161.
2011
Bills 41, Chiefs 7 - 364-213
Lions 48, Chiefs 3 - 411-267
Dolphins 31, Chiefs 3 - 351-343. I didn't even realize it was possible to match an opponent yard for yard and lose by 28 with NO TURNOVERS.
Summary:
Haley is 18-23 counting the 2010 Baltimore Ravens playoff scrimmage. In 13 of his 23 losses the team has been outright dominated. And THE MAJORITY of those blowouts have come in the last two years when the Chiefs were supposedly "getting better."
Seven of those losses have come at home, meaning that at least twice a year, Arrowhead Stadium season ticket holders can count on witnessing a complete embarrassment. That's 25% of their gameday experiences for the year. One quarter of the time, Haley and Pioli embarrass Arrowhead Stadium.
Future potential blowouts:
@ New England
Pittsburgh
@Chicago
@New York
Green Bay
Oakland
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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hmmm
In the transition of what we were, to what we are, to what we are becoming, is it not expected to get our asses kicked a few times?
In pursuit of any goal, there are always times that you fail, what separates winners from losers is how you respond. I think these Haley/Pioli teams respond very well and refuse to give up.
I like the overall momentum this team has and I’m excited to see where it takes us
Nice round number
When you TRY to win it sometimes gets way out of hand
WIN BIG or LOSE BIG, how many times did we blow people out?
here ya go
2009- KC 44 -Den 24
2010-KC 31- San 10
KC 42-Jac 20
KC 31-Arz 13
KC 42- Sea 24
KC 34- Ten 14
2011- KC 28 – Oak 0
KC 45 – Den 3
Ok so the last game isnt accurate, YET.
by TheScreenName on Nov 11, 2011 5:25 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, Haley and Pioli suck.
I guess that’s why Pioli is planning on giving Haley an extension and Clark Hunt is speaking about them in glowing terms. Keep talking man. Dig that hole.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Talk is cheap.
If we keep getting destroyed like this – and history says we will, especially against the good teams we’re about to face – Haley won’t be extended.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 9, 2011 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OK, I call bushit here. Haley ain't going anywhere. Also it would be something to
consider, how the passing offense has evolved with the rule changes, so running up the points is a by product. But the real culprit is we are not good enough on the Line of Scrimmage. PERIOD. And haven’t been since Roaf retired.
Excellent!
R U Ready for the return of HERM? Yeah baby, that’s what we need.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Kinda like what I wrote after the Buffalo Game, records adjusted for today
“Haley, in his 33 meaningful games as an NFL coach, is a respectable 12-8 against teams with a record under .500. He is, however, a laughable 6-16 in games against teams .500 or better. Furthermore, he is 0-7 against teams that won 10 or more games, getting outscored 215-97, which is an average of 30.7 to 13.8 per loss.”
Assuming Detroit and Buffalo hang on to win 10 games, that would make him 0-9, WHEN we lose to the Packers, that’s 0-10. New England, Chicago, Jets, Pittsburgh, we could be 0-14, best case scenario 2-12.
They perform behind this veiled shroud of secrecy like they’re the only guys in town with a clue, meanwhile they’re just a big joke. Can’t agree with you more. They aren’t the answer.
Haley has won 18 games in his first two and a half years as a head coach.
Belichick won 20 games his first three years. Very comparable I’d say.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:28 PM CST up reply actions
Belichick had the wonderful disadvantage of being with the Browns
That’s a failed organization and hasn’t done squat since. And he didn’t have a hand in player personnel then if I am correct. But he did/does in NE, and now he has some shiny rings.
The Browns team Belichick inherited had a better record than the Chiefs team Haley inherited.
And, don’t forget, that was the old Browns. That organization is now the Baltimore Ravens, who have had quite a bit of success since he left.
And speaking of New England, the only reason they’re above water right now is because of Brady, a Pioli draft choice. Their defense is terrible, and it’s terrible mainly because they haven’t been able to find talent since Pioli left.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:37 PM CST up reply actions
Let me know when Haley beats a playoff team
then we’ll talk
See below.
Sorry I’m late about letting you know.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:40 PM CST up reply actions
In 2009, Pioli and Haley inherited a 2-14 team.
In 2011 Pioli and Haley lost two of their top three players, and one very good starter.
In 2010, the blow outs occurred a team who probably cheated, when we were starting a quarterback who can’t find a job in the NFL, and during a game when we had already clinched the division.
If you think Pioli and Haley are frauds, you need to look at the situation again. They got a 2-14 team and turned it into a playoff team in two years. And even after losing those players this year, we’re still competing for a playoff spot.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:25 PM CST reply actions
And how exactly did we do in the playoffs?
against real competition?
As opposed to the fake competition we played in the regular season?
I know you guys just want to complain, but if you look at our record last year, we blew a lot of teams out. It goes both ways.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Is that the standard now?
Never mind making the playoffs, the new standard is blow outs.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:41 PM CST up reply actions
just give it up
Dudes like these will never be satisfied.
“Yeah, we made the playoffs, but we lost.” FIRE EVERYBODY!!!
“Yeah, we won a playoff game. So, what it was only one. These guys suck. FIRE EVERYBODY”
“Yeah, we won the Superbowl but only by 3 points. What an embarrassment. FIRE EVERYBODY.”
“Yeah, so what they only won 2 Superbowls. Not really what I’d call a dynasty. What a bunch of frauds.” “FIRE EVERYBODY”
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
by kabrink on Nov 9, 2011 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Not only will they never be satisfied
they will never admit that this team is a good team. They will not be happy until we are the Steelers. I wish they would go root for them instead of hanging around here bitching about what is going on in KC.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Wow, thought you were above that nonsense, aiken
How the mighty have fallen
I'm so overrated, I'm underrated.
by RememberDelaney37 on Nov 11, 2011 6:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
the Mighty?
The way to talk to and treat me here at AP, no one would believe that you EVER thought I was mighty. You have been more about belittling what I have to say here than anything else. Tough look in your own mirror?
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
by Aiken_Drum on Nov 11, 2011 6:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Teams that are still trying to get where they've never been are likely to have fits and starts.
A team in transition, that was determined to follow the long-term plan, maybe they were hurt more by the short offseason than teams with less patience. Breaking-in 3 ’tweeners, and putting all 3 of them on the field for significant playing time as rookies, may have higher up-side for 2012 and beyond (if only to tell them who to get rid of), but maybe not so good for 2011. Or at least the first half of 2011.
But maybe their choices set them up better for finishing than most of the other 32 teams, who maybe treated the offseason as a time for staying good, rather than for getting better, as much as possible, and in as many places as possible. Chiefs had a lot better success than the Chargers did against Oakland, once they lost McNeil and Vasquez. Depending on how badly those two guys are hurt, one of the contenders in the division may have just fallen by the wayside. The Bolts don’t have the depth to compete without those 2 starters. And the Raiders owned the line of scrimmage against the Bolts on the OTHER side of the ball, too, even though the Chiefs made a solid goalline stand against the Raiders.
This game against the Broncos is huge. A loss gives the Broncos hope and gives the Raiders confidence. A win, and the Chiefs remain in control of their destiny.
would of ≠ would've
You tell em wustl
:)
I was once fired from a job two days after I waited on Matt Cassel and his wife Lauren Killian. Totally my AP moment to remember. Unfortunately also one of my stupidest moments.
by Chiefs_swagger on Nov 10, 2011 1:17 PM CST up reply actions
Clinching the West these days
is like winning the Ivy League conference in NCAA Basketball. You’ll get an invitation to go get your ass whipped by the better teams.
If you make the playoffs, it doesn't really matter how you got there.
Remember when the Cardinals went to the Super Bowl a couple years back? They had some blowout losses, but nobody remembers that because they made the Super Bowl, and were very close to winning it.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:33 PM CST up reply actions
Look Clay, I couldn't care less about wins and losses...
…as long as the team gives MAXIMUM EFFORT.
Holy moly, JoePa just got shitcanned.
by craig in calgary on Nov 9, 2011 9:31 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
New England Sucks as Well
They lost a few games… they should fire big Bill and Cut Brady..
Comeon dude – they made it to the playoffs last year. Everyone had the cheifs winning 7 games this year – WITH CHARLES, TMOE and BERRY. Yeah, I wanted be at AFC championship game this year but it’s not likely to happen.
If you don’t like it, don’t be fan. Many fans don’t get to see their teams win a championship.
When did he say any of that?
He just stated some facts, that are pretty hard to refute.
Aren’t we tired of losing? I know I am.
by craig in calgary on Nov 9, 2011 10:00 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
TRY HARDER
means you throw picks like against Buffalo and Detroit and they turn them into points.
Remember Philadelphia whe the Chiefs “QUIT” and ran the ball down big, that sucked !
A loss is a loss no matter if by 1 point or 50 points, let er fly and try to get better
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 9, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions
Cinderellas shoe fell off with this team
Now we are back to reality .We were a nice story last year,that had come back to earth this year.It really sucks so many fans accept mediocrity,and blast fans that want more.This crap wouldn’t fly in Philly,Pittsburg,New York,New England.Yet, people on here are so happy with a random playoff appearance, that they will make excuses as to why this team has regressed.We don’t have enough talent and that is on our GM that people worship with a Jim Jones devotion in KC
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:11 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah
I would rather "spygate" and be called a winner.
Go New England!
How long has it been since New England has won a SB? How many years have they been predicted a favorite? Until they stop riding Brady’s arm and fix that horrible defense they won’t make it far.
Philly? Yeah, you see what they are doing with all that “talent” there.
NY? Giants were a joke last year and won’t make it far this year. The Jets will be lucky to get a willdcard. Steelers are doing pretty good this year but they always seemed to be loaded with talent.
The thing you have to understand is that with Haley he got a piss poor team. The players were fat and thought just because they had “talent” they could be on the Chiefs. The first year with Haley wasn’t pretty but he pulled out a few impressive wins getting the players back into playing mode. Last year, Haley won almost every injury battle and BEAT the teams he was suppose to BEAT. I would have liked to see a better division record but that’s really the only thing from last year I didn’t like.
This year the first couple of games Haley wasn’t prepared and that is all on him. Then from the 3rd week to the Monday night game he seemed to have the team emotionally and physically ready to play. Last week was horrible all around. Was it the players fault? Coaches? I’ll give them all credit on the performance. This week will be a true test to see where everyone is at.
After losing Charles, Berry, and Moeaki and the first 3 games this season seemed to be at a loss. Now after 9 weeks we are STILL very much in the AFC West race. I don’t mind when people complain because I do about somethings on this team too but seriously? We should be thankful we are holding it all together after the start of this season. We have depth issues but quite a few teams in the NFL does. Pioli has had some busts but the few special players we got makes up for those late round busts. The front office has resigned some of our best players yet people still complain about money.
I’ll say this once again. GOOD teams beat the teams they are suppose to beat, beat their division rivals and a few teams they aren’t suppose to beat. So far we beat 3 teams we were suppose to beat and 1 team we weren’t suppose to beat in the Chargers. We are 2-1 in our division games. Now, it’s time to beat a few more teams we aren’t suppose to beat and keep winning our division games. Take care of the weaker teams. It’s that simple.
by Chiefsfan85 on Nov 10, 2011 2:51 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Just like when we beat Miami...oh wait
Wow ……where to even begin.
New England was 14-2 just last year .Since 2000 ,they went to 4 Super Bowl and won 3 and had 1, thats right 1 losing season.But yeah.what losers.
The Eagles since 2000 ,9 playoff appearances,4 NFC championship games and a Super Bowl appearance.Boy they are a horrible team.
The Jets sine 2000, 6 playoff appearances back to back AFC championship games.God awful, piss poor,terrible.
The Giants since 2000,6 playoff appearances 2 Super Bowls,1 championship.What a moribund franchise
The Steelers since 2000,7 times in the post season,3 Super Bowls ,2 rings
average at best
Ya, so true these teams really suck ,I would much rather have the Chiefs record.And what is that you ask?
KC Chiefs since 2000 ,3 playoff appearances, 0-3 in the post season,6 losing seasons.
C’mon man ,I have heard of spinning a tale ,but that is ridiculous.If you wouldn’t take what any of those teams have done over what the chiefs have done, you are crazy
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Now
you are spinning in your favor. I’m talking about this year except when noted such as New England and the spygate thing and the Giants being terrible last year.
All you have to talk about in that whole thing in what I typed out was the other teams. Yet, you didn’t comment on the other stuff starting with “The thing you have to understand…”
EVERY game day thread you talk nothing but negative. Now, you are praising everything under the sun about these big market teams still saying nothing positive about “Your team”. C’mon man, I have seen it all but you are bringing negative Nancy to her all new high.
Did you ever stop to think maybe,just maybe
I want this team to be great like those teams.I just don’t think Pioli is doing that good of a job here.Sorry,but that is my opinion on the man.Green Bay is much smaller than KC.So,why do they produce a winner?There is no excuse as to why this team can’t be elite and that is what I want.New England and ’’spygate’’ who cares,they taped 1 Jets practice,so what.The Giants won a Super Bowl only 4 years ago.What was this teams record in 07?Yes,they weren’t very good last year,but they look pretty good this year.We as fans,have to shed this loser mentality that we have when it comes to this team.We need to demand more from this team.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:50 PM CST up reply actions
The second time around
In which I commented you didn’t mention Green Bay once. Hence why I said Big Market. Why does Green Bay produce winners? They are a storied franchise and more free agents want to play for them they attract the bigger names. They have a good scouting program. I don’t know. Spygate? Who cares? You are right cheating is good. There is a fine line between positive and negative. BUT when 95% of what you say is negative it gets pretty bad. Especially, when you pretty much call the ones who are all positive “crazy”. We can demand more from the team but the thing is THE ORGANIZATION will do what they want to do. The fans can stop spending money on Chiefs stuff or tickets but a new batch of fans will by them along with the hardcore fans. There is nothing we can really do about the wins and losses. It’s not like I can go out right now and become a scout for the Chiefs. We can however support the team day in and day out. The Chiefs will eventually right the ship and when they do I can say I’ve been here all along. WE are still first place this year after all that happened. That’s more than what I can say for over 20 teams that aren’t first place in their division.
Green Bay had had 1 good free agent (Charles woodson in 10 years)
Almost all of there talent is drafted.Have you ever heard fans on the East Coast?My god ,they are brutal ,in Philly they got McNabb and Kolb traded.They eat Eli and Sanchez alive in NY.I think fans here are to nice.Support your team,cheer for your team,I agree.But blind loyalty,hell no.Is Clark hunt blindly loyal to you or I?Truth is Carl Peterson should have been fired 5 years before he was.But he hung around because fans didn’t demand he be fired(remember the Millan man march in Detroit) How many years have we been saying this team will right the ship,only to disappoint us in the end?I am all out of’’positivity’’,now all I want are results
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 2:13 PM CST up reply actions
I agree with you
on Peterson and yeah they are crazy in Philly. Thanks for the info on free agents. It is all scouting and drafting then. Good. Now, I know that. There is still a line that we all can be on seeing positive and negative. Are you happy with being first right now? Will you be happy with a division title? Will you still be a Chiefs fan if we only win 5 games this year? Do you think the Chiefs have good core players? Did you think that victory in Oakland was impressive?
I mean there are positives and negatives to look at. I look at the positives while looking on how the team could possibly fix the negatives.
ok first things 1st
Am I happy being tied for 1st?Well,if we were 6-2 yes absolutly.But SD plays Oak tonight,so we aren’t going to be in 1st very long.And we are going to be in a dog fight till the end ,with the toughest part of our scheduele coming up.So,no I don’t feel good about it,it’s a mirage
Will I be happy with a division title? I was a ‘’suck for Luck guy’’.I desperatly want him on this team.So,now IMO we better win a division title or this season is a complete disaster ,considering what we could have had.
Will I be a Chiefs fan if they win 5 games?Yes,i am past the point of no return of fandom.No matter what happens with the chiefs/saints, i will always be a fan.But I will be very dissapointed with that record(see above)
Do I think the Chiefs have good core players(i.e starters) Well,yes and no, at wr yes ,at cb yes,kicking game yes.But O-line,D-line,OLB,TE,QB no I do not.Pioli hasn’t done a good enough job (again IMO) stocking this team with talent.
Do I think the win in Oak was impressive.Defensivley, it was amazing.But the offense struggled to much, considering all the turn overs we got from our defense.I don’t think that win excuses the 2 blowout losses we had at Arrowhead
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 2:52 PM CST up reply actions
Hate to break it to you
But the menatility of the fans means nothing. We’ve all been fans for a REALLY long time and have suffered through some bad football. What is important is the culture of the football team. The players today don’t care about any of the playoff losses except 1, the Ravens game last year. This teams belief in itself is FAR more important that what the fans THINK. This is a team on the rise from a very low, low. You don’t just go from bad to good overnight.
I don’t think anyone on this site is happy or even ok with a loss, no matter the fashion we lose. That said, there are always glass half empty or glass half full types. What each individual choses is his/her own choice.
To the topic of Chiefs managment, all i can say here is, i think this team has been improving, but still has a few missing peices, but i think the closer you get to being great, the faster greatness comes.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 5:13 PM CST up reply actions
They're not giving him until the end of the year????
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
HALEY HAS NEVER BEATEN A PLAYOFF TEAM
How many years does it take to prove that to you guys? If you’re content beating the scum of the NFL then by all means extend him. But if you want a coach that in his first 42 games that matter has never, and I mean NEVER beaten a playoff team, then go for it. I choose otherwise.
Yeah!
Well, except last year he beat a playoff team. And this year he has unless either we or the Broncos make the playoffs. But other than that, YEAH! Never beat a playoff team!
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:39 PM CST up reply actions
Who did he beat last year that was in the playoffs?
And don’t say Seattle, because a 7-9 team doesn’t count. They didn’t deserve to be there.
Thanks Mr. BCS, for deciding who gets to be in the playoffs.
Regardless, by the end of the year he’ll have beaten at least two playoff teams in his career.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 9:45 PM CST up reply actions
He's still awful
Someone from the NFC West had to represent their division, that doesn’t make them a good team. Let me rephrase that then, he hasn’t beat a team with 10 or more wins. And that still stands true. He is 0-9 against them, which 10 wins means that you’re a pretty good team. How can you go forward and extend a coach who is 0-9 against 10+ win teams. Isn’t the goal to beat the good teams too, not just the bad ones.
Bill Cowher
I’d pay him a boatload to see that Steelers D here in KC.
You asked, if you’re Santa, that’s what i Fricken want.
took that loser 10 years to win the superbowl
and hardly any coaches are successful with taking a second team to the SB
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Haley isn't even in the same Galaxy as Cowher
Cowher went 26-15 in his first 41 games. Haley…. 18-23. Cowher went to the playoffs his first 6 years. Cowher is 12-9 in the playoffs, he has a .623 winning percentage overall. Yes I’d take Cowher any and every day over Haley, thank you.
.
Dream On and you got some serious Toys in your Attic
You gotta Draw a Line and realize They Ain’t Coming and you should ask for My money Back
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 9, 2011 10:15 PM CST up reply actions
please educate us on the state of the Steelers team and organization
when he took over.
Hey, I love Cowher too actually. But, I just think you’re not looking at the Chiefs situation fairly. But, whatever. I wonder if you were one of those dudes 3 years ago that hated Haley because he yelled a lot. Many of those same people were crying because we didn’t have Cowher. Oh by they way, he yells a lot. But he never gets criticized for it. That’s just an example. But for whatever reason, the pitchforks have been out for Haley since day 1 and I don’t get it. He’s done a hell of a lot.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
90's AFC Central
…was the cakewalk of all divisions in the 90s after the Run and Shoot Oilers fell apart after the 93 playoff loss to the Chiefs. Then they got the expansion Jaguars in 1995.
So of those 26 wins you crow about, 10 (I looked it up) came against the Browns and Bengals.
He inherited a 7-9 team from a retiring coach. Not a busted franchise in full rebuild mode.
This year's AFC West looks like a cakewalk too
…well, to other teams that DON’T reside in said division.
Coaches who won a Super Bowl with their second team
Bill Belichick
Don Shula
Mike Shanahan
Tom Coughlin
Tony Dungy
Jon Gruden
Dick Vermeil
Ya you’re right, it never happens
He means won a Super Bowl with more than one team.
Which none of those guys did.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 11:11 PM CST up reply actions
Okay?
So after a guy wins a Super Bowl you should never hire him, because no one has done it with two teams. That makes a ton of sense.
Comedy Gold. Thanks bro', I can go to sleep with a smile on my face.
"In my experience, there is no such thing as luck."
"It's not always going to be pretty; and that's alright..."
Cower was a 10 year coach before he mad the dance with the steelers...
and if you want the steelers defense, Cower is not the man to go after.
There’s this one guy… he’s pretty well known…and credited with a huge portion of the development of the fire zone blitz scheme that the Steelers run… maybe you’ve heard of him?
His names LeBeau, Dick.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
The goal is to win the Super Bowl.
I don’t really care if we go 7-9 and lose those 9 games by 40 points each, if we make the playoffs and win the Super Bowl then that season was a success.
So, yes, by my standard Haley and Pioli have technically failed. But the fact that, after getting the system in place, we are consistently playoff contenders even considering that several teams don’t have a single player better than two of the ones we have on IR right now, means that they’re doing their jobs and working towards a Super Bowl the right way.
by wustl_chiefs_fan on Nov 9, 2011 10:33 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That not good team in the NFC West
won a playoff game against the Saints.
by Chiefsfan85 on Nov 10, 2011 12:02 AM CST up reply actions
um, we won 10 games last year.....
so do we suck, or are we a pretty good team?
by KCfosho on Nov 10, 2011 1:19 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Sweeeet!!!
"Even when the Chiefs win, they can’t win." - Aiken Drum
by electriclight on Nov 10, 2011 12:37 PM CST up reply actions
I guess you'd prefer Cowher?
Hmm, he took 10 years to win the SB. But, you’d have fired him before he got the chance.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
by kabrink on Nov 9, 2011 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
why would I have fired a coach
that started off going to the playoffs 6 straight seasons with an AFC championship in the mix.
and Haley has gone to the playoffs already, and has a damn good chance to do it again.
Face it, Haley isn’t the dog you make him out to be.
Every time the guy makes the grade, you raise the bar.
I can respect that… don’t settle for less… want for more. So lets see what the team does the rest of the year. Maybe you’ll get a playoff win yet.
The Cardinals didn’t exactly light it up in the season they went to the superbowl.
Hell, the Packers went into the playoffs as the 6th seed in the NFC last season, and ended up winning it all.
It’s too soon to write off the GM and the Coach that took a 2-14 team to the playoffs in 2 seasons.
The Powers Of Astute Observation Are Often Mistaken As Cynicism By Those That Do Not Posses Them -- G.B. Shaw
by Texas Chief on Nov 9, 2011 10:47 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
That is a rec'able offense, sir.
Top 10 defense and another trip to the playoffs!
Tamba Hali, NFL Sack Leader, 2011
by ArrowSpread on Nov 10, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
I pictured the Rock there when you said it like that...
“And Lil’ Sparky means NEVER…”
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
...missed the playoffs the year we beat them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season
Remember when Jamaal used to return kicks?
He isn’t accurate though, we did beat last years NFCW winning Seahawks, quite handily.
So, 100% of the games I’ve been to the Chiefs have won a game vs a playoff team. Sweet.
by craig in calgary on Nov 10, 2011 5:29 PM CST up reply actions
11,9,12,11,10,11
Bill Cowher’s win totals his first 6 seasons
steeler records
1988 5-11 (their worst record in 20 years)
1989 9-7
1990 9-7
1991 7-9
1992 Cowher hired
I think he had slightly a better head start than taking over for a bumbling idiot like Herm and King Carls 2-14.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
by kabrink on Nov 9, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Same thing with the Packers
People fail to realize how much worse off this team was when Pioli and Haley came in. I know we bring it up all the time, but the magnitude of it is still so overlooked.
Meh
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I'm against extremism in all forms regardless of the totality of evidence in all forms
This being an example.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
In all forms (apparently I need to say that as many times as possible)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I appreciate the stats to back these claims...
but this is by far the biggest downer thread ever…
now I’m sad
Cherry Picking
4 games per year (on average)
I could conter with Matt Cassel’s 400 yard passing games, and it would easily equal the eqation. Who cares? We’ve got a shot, and that’s what matters.
This is not cherry picking.
This is 13 losses out of 23 in which we are DOMINATED. That is a clear and obvious problem.
By the way, Matt Cassel has one 400-yard passing game as a Chief, and we got blown out in that game.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 9, 2011 10:52 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, that stinks
But your conclusion doesn’t follow from the premises…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yeah, it kinda is Cherry Picking
Appreciate the effort into research that you did here. Not one single person on here likes these blow-out losses, but picking losses from Pioli/Haley regime and assigning causality, without ruling out any other causes or providing any comparisons is pretty much the definition of cherry picking…
Perhaps if you provided some comparisons against other teams or Edwards/Peterson records, your hypothesis might be more plausible.
by Chief_Elmo on Nov 10, 2011 7:05 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
It's not cherry picking.
It’s simply stating the facts. The Chiefs get blown out a lot under Haley and Pioli.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 10, 2011 7:47 AM CST up reply actions
Sure it is
If you were stating that the Chiefs got blown out, then you’d be stating fact. You make it subjective by attributing causality (through cherry picking data) and using indefinite terms (a lot, really?). This is the only point folks are trying to make. You may continue to be obtuse and say it’s not so (because you say so), but then you inhibit all intellectual discourse.
Assigning causality without the appropriate analysis or comparison is completely subjective — not fact-based. We had blow-outs before Haley & Pioli got here. Guess what, we’ll probably have them after they leave.
by Chief_Elmo on Nov 10, 2011 10:12 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Give me a break dude.
Dominated 13 times in 23 losses.
Fact. Fact. Fact.
That is a horrifying trend.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 10, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
The first time we played them last year we sure did...
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
A 10-6 win is total domination?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, dammit!
I thought you knew this already. C’mon, man!
In the same vein, Ds are now the new Bs for law school students. Give that a whirl.
Fine by me
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yeah... this is a profession where they REALLY care about grades when offering jobs...
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
So the 2.4 GPA
isn’t “totally dominating” law school?
I guess I was misinformed about this domination concept.
Ha!
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
If the final record is respectable, why does it matter what the margins are in the losses?
Honestly I’d rather lose in a blowout than in OT…I find watching blowout losses much less painful, and I don’t really believe in moral victories. This and I think being blown out in a loss brings the team into better focus.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
by jmcgoblue on Nov 9, 2011 11:25 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
Because it's an indicator of poor coaching.
Well prepared teams do not get destroyed.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 9, 2011 11:29 PM CST reply actions 2 recs
The Pittsburgh Steelers, who are a good team
have gone 27-14 since Haley took over the Chiefs. Their worst in that time period came on the 35-7 whipping they took from Baltimore to start this season. Haley has 7, count em 7 losses by a larger margin than that in his 41 games. That’s the sign of an uncompetitive team.
The Steelers next largest margin of loss...
39-26 to the Patriots last year. 13 points. Do you know how many games Haley has lost by more than 13 points? 11! He averages 4 games a year where he gets beat by 13 points or more. How is that OK that 25% of our games we aren’t even competitive in?
If you have a boner for the Steelers
why aren’t you a Steelers fan?
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
by ChiefWildcat on Nov 10, 2011 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
this is just stupid
how can you compare the two situations of these two teams during the Haley timeframe? It makes no logical sense whatsoever. The Steelers have had stability in their team and been at high playoff/SB caliber level for a long time. The Chiefs barely just completely cleaned house and started over only 3 years ago.
CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal
Because I can legitimize any crazy situation or argument I want
it’s my brain, i’ll do with it as i please
More excuses
.We were a nice story last year,that had to come back to earth this year.It really sucks so many fans accept mediocrity,and blast fans that want more.More than just a random playoff appearance every 5 years.This crap wouldn’t fly in Philly,Pittsburg,New York,New England,because their fans want/expect more.Yet, people on here are so happy with average, that they will make excuses as to why this team has regressed.We don’t have enough talent and that is on our GM, that people worship with a Jim Jones devotion in KC.Is our self esteem that low,that we feel we don’t deserve the best product on the field.We are over 10 times the size of Green Bay.Yet,they put out a good/great product year in and year out.It isn’t acceptable,sorry if you think it is
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:26 AM CST up reply actions
Wow, you've got it down to just copy / pasting the same thing over and over now?
Well there’s a lot to be said for efficiency I guess.
We Don't Hear The Hate
I only copied part of it
If you read both you would know that.But then again you attack the means ,instead of the message.Because you know what I say is the truth
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:08 PM CST up reply actions
Haven't attacked anything. Funny that you're so hurt by it though that you think it's an attack.
I just find it funny that you say the same thing every day in just about every thread you comment in. To the point that you’re now just copy / pasting.
It’s pretty entertaining.
We Don't Hear The Hate
I'm not hurt by any means
I copied part of it yes.But again ,no matter how you say it the truth is the truth.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Well, no. Your opinion is your opinion.
People like to state opinions around here like they’re facts. I actually agree with parts of what you’re saying. And parts of it are just pretty much made up. But at the very least own up to it and call it what it is – an opinion.
The main fact is that it’s still funny that you’re copy / pasting your own comments. You have to admit, the unintentional comedy there is worth a chuckle.
We Don't Hear The Hate
by TRSChief on Nov 10, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
just out of curiosity
what did I ‘’make up’’
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:56 PM CST up reply actions
Well all of this is pure conjecture, and pretty bad I might add
Yet, people on here are so happy with average, that they will make excuses as to why this team has regressed.We don’t have enough talent and that is on our GM, that people worship with a Jim Jones devotion in KC.Is our self esteem that low,that we feel we don’t deserve the best product on the field.
Plus the irrational hated for Pioli is mostly just founded in some kind of weirdly tinted view. It’s your opinion, more power to you for thinking it. But there are a lot of flaws with a lot of what you keep posting over and over and over again.
And instead of ever considering opinions that aren’t exactly your own, you just sort of shout it even louder as if that validates it when it didn’t before.
To each their own. I like some of what Pioli has done, and don’t like some of what he’s done. The near doomsday style ranting about him though is bordering on the levels of Harold Camping.
In the end, I want what you want, what everyone at AP wants. The Chiefs to kick the ever loving shit out of the AFC West, win the division, win playoff games and bring home the Lombardi. There are many different views on how to go about that.
Most are views formed from partial information, incomplete information, or just plain pulled out of asses – because it’s all fan commentary. And we fans will never know the reality of what coaches / scouts think of certain players, what the front office did or didn’t offer for this player or that draft pick, among other things.
So wild ranting and speculation, shouting the same thing over and over again from the rooftops when the ideas formation was tenuous at the very best – is slightly less meaningful than pissing in the wind.
The seething vitriol about this or that doesn’t really do anything, other than maybe troll some other commentors into “NO, YOU ARE!” back-and-forths.
My preference is looking at what we have to work with, trying to figure out how they’re going to get the most from it, and work within the reality of the situation. Not repeat a mantra of something that isn’t going to change anyway – in this specific example: your wanting to get rid of Pioli.
Whether the Chiefs would be better had Hunt hired a different GM or not doesn’t matter. (I personally don’t think so, but my thoughts are irrelevant. Pioli is who we have).
And Pioli won’t be gone after this year, or the next or the next. So focusing on what parts of the team need tangible improvement (DE, S, ILB, QB, OL) – and the why / how of making it better seems a lot more interesting of a discussion to me than just shouting over and over again about something that isn’t realistically going to change.
Y’know?
We Don't Hear The Hate
by TRSChief on Nov 10, 2011 2:08 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
We don't have enough talent on this team
I just see that when anyone criticizes Pioli,they are personaly attacked.There is an element of a Pioli can do no wrong attitude on here (the Jim Jone refference was a little extreme).Fans can make a difference to a team,I have seen it happen.On the East Coast,they do not tolerate losing.That doesn’t make them better,or,smarter than we are.But, I would like us to adopt more of a what have you done for me lately attitude ,when it comes to this team.Yes,in the end this blog doesn’t matter a hill of beans to what this team does.It is just a place for us to vent,cheer,complain or whatever you want to use your 1st amendment right to do.It is just that,when you follow the NFL/draft/NCAA as long as I have,you get an idea of what works and what doesn’t.When i’m watching the draft and the Chiefs trade up and get Moeaki,i’m screaming ,‘’no no no ,he’s to injury prone get Hernandez.‘’If a guy like me can see a mistake like that ,why can’t he?That is just 1 mistake of many he has made that has me very concerned
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 2:33 PM CST up reply actions
Those kind of things are hard to just draw a direct line to, though.
Hernandez is definitely very good.
He’s also benefiting from lining up in 2 TE sets alongside Gronk, as well as having Brady throw to him.
Injury prone doesn’t really have any bearing on an ACL tear. Berry and Charles aren’t really injury prone (Charles’ shoulder to an extent, still has no bearing on ACL tears). We just got a perfect storm of being snake bit with those damn things right out of the gate.
Moeaki can, and likely will, be a solid contributor for us going forward. I’d love to get another well rounded TE to put opposite him and steal some of NE’s 2 TE sets on offense.
Depth is hard to build, and always a work in progress even on the best of teams. Some teams that have a more solid and established core like PIT, NE, BAL can lose a star player or two and keep on chugging. KC has a much longer road to travel before we get there. It’s not something that can be fixed overnight. Pioli’s done some good things coupled with a headscratcher here and there.
Overall, things are going in the right direction, I think. But there will be bumps, bruises and scrapes along the way – and those aren’t going to be any fun to watch.
From a purely strategic / armchair GM standpoint, it’s going to be interesting to see how we handle the QB position in the next year or two. The team is going to be too good to draft in the top 3, but barring a moment of clarity by Cassel where something clicks and he starts setting the world on fire, he probably won’t be the guy to take us to the promised land either.
So we’ll be stuck in a kind of in-between situation draft-wise. That’s what separates the really good GM’s from the rest, the ability to move forward in a spot like that. And I’ll be very interested to see how Pioli will approach it.
We Don't Hear The Hate
by TRSChief on Nov 10, 2011 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
All too true
I think we are building something awesome here in KC.
I am going to enjoy every up AND down. I remember the 90’s and how I felt we were going to win every week and usually did and it became sorta boring playing those challenged teams waiting for the elite teams.
I will miss the nervousness when this juggernaut gets rolling
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 10, 2011 7:51 PM CST up reply actions
Yes. 'nother rec.
Interesting that the Steelers had success against the Patriots by getting MORE aggressive, rather than LESS aggressive. Got their hands on everybody at the line, and nixed all the impossible-to-stop timing routes. A guy like Brady can just see who gets off the line untouched, and he knows where the timing route to that guy will be (assuming no illegal, unflagged grabbing in the pattern). I think those passes are the ones that Crennel’s D does too little to prevent at the front end, so they’re living and dying by unforced errors on offense.
One thing about the loss of one guy affecting or not affecting your success, notice the Pittsburgh rollercoaster when Polamalu was hurt. It’s awesome to have a truly gifted safety who does a little bit of everything for you, all day long. I think losing Eric Berry was the biggest blow to the team from that rash of early season injuries.
I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment:
That’s what separates the really good GM’s from the rest, the ability to move forward in a spot like that.
So far, Pioli hasn’t painted himself into any corners. It’s the danger of doing that that keeps me on his side, when my fellow fans insist that this or that is a problem.
And while some may be correct in saying the Chiefs don’t have much depth, I’ve been watching them pretty closely for quite a while, and everywhere I look, you may not like what you see, but I see them having made progress. While it’s anybody’s guess if it was enough progress to contend for a championship (Most would guess not.), they did make progress, and there’s no big chasm looming ahead, either.
And when draft season comes around, it’ll really be anybody’s guess, because the farther along they get, the less clear-cut the decisions will become, and that’s the true test of a GM. When you get close, do you make a decision that you think gives you a chance to win now, but which ultimately creates a cascading effect that leaves you middle-of-the-pack for the next 5 years?
would of ≠ would've
Also, re: "when anyone criticizes Pioli, they are personally attacked"
That thing goes both ways.
Saying something good about Pioli gets one drawn, quartered, hung, burned at the stake and summarily sent to the bottom of the lake. It’s a polarizing topic, and people with little to no real inside information continually to state their opinions on the matter as fact. Which just leads to more silly arguments.
We Don't Hear The Hate
I have never attacked anyone you didn't attack me 1st
Moeaki missed half his games in college with injuries.I knew it was a red flag when we got him.Charles slipped on a 1st down marker,yes that is pretty freaky.Berry was cut blocked at the knee,which should have drawn a suspension,or at least a fine(but thats a whole other topic).Moeaki got hurt diving out of bounds,i’m still trying to figure out how he did it.That along with his injury history,has me doubting he will ever be the same player.I will give Pioli some credit,Lewis was a hell of a find in the 5th round.Signing Gregg,Breaston and McClain were good moves(wish he did more) But there has been to many mistakes for me to feel really good about him at the helm.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 3:04 PM CST up reply actions
actually,i'm flatterd
I am flattered that you would notice all the thread posts I make.Considering I don’t pay much attention to what you say.None the less,you took the time to comment on my thread even though I wasn’t talking to you.In fact,you do that quite often.So,I must be striking some chord with you in what I say.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:42 PM CST up reply actions
"your" thread? :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Erm, what?
I read the exact same thing twice within the space of about five minutes. Word for word.
That’s why I thought it was funny.
We Don't Hear The Hate
my thread comment my bad
You are easily amused TRS,
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 10, 2011 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Like the Saints? :)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 12:11 AM CST up reply actions
We beat one team by 28 or more points
which was the raiders, against their 5th string QB. We beat 8 teams by a score of 13 or more points. Most of which were last year of course.
a win is a win
You think I care if they have the best QB or worst QB in the game? That just means the team capitalized when they SHOULD have.
by Chiefsfan85 on Nov 10, 2011 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
we, WHAT 8 teams by 13 points?
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 5:58 PM CST up reply actions
Pioli and Haley have only been GM and Head Coach for two and a half seasons.
I think that’s a pretty small sample size to try and statistically prove they’re incompetent, especially considering the circumstances. They inherited a team that was in shambles. I’ll put it this way, how many coaches that were considered good or even great coaches had immediate success (or any success, for that matter) when they took over a bottom feeding team? Ditka? Nope. Shanahan? Nope. Schottenheimer? Nope. Stram? Nope. The list goes on. I guess I’m trying to say, sometimes you can’t blame everything on the coach and/or GM. Especially when they’re only two and a half seasons into it.
They did not inherit a team in shambles.
In fact the only reason they are currently not viewed as complete idiots is the players they inherited.
Three offseasons and we are still getting our butts handed to us several times a year. We may not have even seen the worst of it this year.
Inexcusable.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 10, 2011 2:31 AM CST up reply actions
Really?
The 2008 Chiefs is basically what Haley inherited in 2009. They finished the season 2-14. They were 26th in scoring offense and 29th in the league in points allowed. They had a point differential of -149 points. I’ll list the players who started the most games that year. I’ll bold the ones that are still with the Chiefs.
QB: Tyler Thigpen
RB: Larry Johnson
FB: Mike Cox
WR: Dwayne Bowe
WR: Mark Bradley
TE: Tony Gonzalez
TE: Brad Cottam
LT: Branden Albert
LG: Brian Waters
C: Rudy Niswanger
RG: Adrian Jones
RT: Damion McIntosh
Right now we have an upgrade at every position besides LG and TE. We still have Albert and Bowe. Two key players on our offense out of 11 starters.
LDE: Turk McBride
LDE: Tamba Hali
DT: Tank Tyler
RDE: Glenn Dorsey
LLB: Demorrio Williams -Not a starter
MLB: Rocky Boiman
RLB: Derrick Johnson
LCB: Brandon Carr
RCB: Brandon Flowers
SS: Bernard Pollard
FB: Jarrad Page
So we got quite a few starters now which is a great start but they were all pretty young and now hitting the stride of their careers. The rest of that list is just horrible. Then we had depth players such as Weston Dacus, Jean-Phillips Darche, Curtis Gatewood, B.J. Sams.
I’m sorry but that team was just horrible with a lot of potential from the younger players. Also, remember how out of shape these guys were showing up to Haley’s camp. No excuse for that.
It was a horrible team, yes.
But it was not in shambles. The players you bolded are quite a nice talent core. And you left out Charles.
by Clay Wendler on Nov 10, 2011 3:30 AM CST up reply actions
What would be in shambles then?
a 0-16 team with 95% turnover? The 2008 is as close as you get to “shambles”. Yeah, a nice core but then the players Haley got were pretty young and not playing like they do today.
I’ll list the players who started the most games that year.
in your opinion no, in the opinion of many, yes.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
read the war room, the first chapter alone, about the 93 browns, has enough that it feels like you are reading about this team, in 2011.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
What's the difference between horrible team and a team in shambles?
I’m assuming potential?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 11:41 AM CST up reply actions
You bolded our current best players, and ommitted JC
You also say “That team was in shambles” evidencing a -141 point differential, 26th in scoring offense and 29th in scoring defense.
Well, after 8 games, we extrapolate to a -142 differential BEFORE playing the hard part of the schedule and are 26th in scoring offense and 26th in scoring defense. I appreciate you want to defend the current regime, but you’d be better off going the Aiken technique with rainbows, hopes, dreams and big words, because the stats aren’t going to back up your argument
by craig in calgary on Nov 10, 2011 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 8 recs
I also said
once again just naming the players with the most starts that year. THAT is a whole season. We will see at the end of this season. You really can’t compare half of one and a full of another. So how about those rainbows?
by Chiefsfan85 on Nov 10, 2011 11:33 AM CST up reply actions
Except for wins
That would seem to be a significant difference.
It’s not like the 2008 team didn’t play crappy teams as well. Yet they only managed to pull out 2 wins. We’re halfway there and have twice as many despite missing our two best players.
While we’re not a great team or even a good one, I find it fascinating that people are using this season as a benchmark for where we are as a team.
If Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews went down, and the Packers were now 4-4 instead of undefeated, I have a hard time envisioning everyone saying “holy crap we suck!”
Circumstances in their totality must be considered.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Exactly what I've been trying to say...
Pioli has been riding Herm’s coattails. Herm put the pieces in place, Haley and Pioli get the credit.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Hard to say
Would Herm have developed those guys into the players they are? Given his lax approach? Maybe… But DJ sure didn’t develop under him.
On the flip side, T-Jax, Berry, Lewis, Asamoah, Arenas, Baldwin, Houston (for a rook), Breaston, Gregg, McClain, Belcher, and Lilja are all pretty serious contributors for our team as well. So “riding the coatails” is a bit of a stretch.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I'm not one for name calling
but you, sir, are a complete idiot if you’re suggesting that Todd Haley and Scott Pioli are complete idiots. Exactly what qualifies you as a football guru? At least these guys have a history of success. I’ll side with them over you and your opinion any day.
Its stats like this that strain my faith in Pioli
He has done some good. bought some talent in. got us out of the 2-14 rut. but blowout losses like these shouldnt be happening as frequently as they have this far into his rebuild of the team. I’ll give it to him that he doesn’t have 3 of his best players this season. but the depth at those positions is shocking. Terrible depth at safety. average depth at RB. very average depth at TE. And it’s not just those positions. If Hali wen’t down, we have NO pass rush to speak of. NONE
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
all a product of never establishing a core, spending all our picks searching for starters and missing completely
this team wasnt in the position TO draft depth, and the misses werent even depth players.
vermeil hurt this team in the long run, still paying for it
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
Yep
Still early to be drafting depth when we were just finally getting a starting lineup in place. Almost there… Got to the playoffs a year ahead of schedule and still have a fighting chance this year with a nasty string of injuries to key starters.
"Even when the Chiefs win, they can’t win." - Aiken Drum
by electriclight on Nov 10, 2011 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
I do believe you're onto something there.
Last year’s easy schedule threw us ahead of where we were supposed to be. A shame, too, given that with a lower draft pick we could’ve gotten Pouncey (and supposedly would have).
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Clay and Spanky
Seriously why are you fans of the Chiefs??? There is nothing you can do to change the Chiefs so why put yourself thru all this misery? Sure it sucks at times with the chiefs, but you know what every sunday im going to be sitting there cheering my ass off, hoping for a win.
by CWil03 on Nov 10, 2011 9:49 AM CST reply actions 3 recs
And so will they
They love the team and want them to win. They view certain problems as preventing this, and are so discussing them.
I may not agree with their conclusions, but it’s no different from complaining about B-Rich as a RT. When you think something is holding the team back, it’s OK to talk about it.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 11:59 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Yep, they've lost some
they’ve won some too… in the last 2 yrs… they’ve won more than they’ve lost.
I don’t give a flying fack about “good teams” and “bad teams”… Detroit, SF, Buffalo and others are proving that you don’t know from one year to the next who the “good” teams are going to be.
play the schedule you’re given, win more than you lose, build towards playoffs and super bowls… everything else is bs
"W" and "L"
Are the only stats that matter. I don’t really care about blowouts either way.
"Even when the Chiefs win, they can’t win." - Aiken Drum
Meh
Tough to say that when three-quarters of the losses are shellackings…and a majority of those are at home.
If the wins were equally as impressive, then I would concur with your thought. Then it would just be bizarre. As it stands, when this team loses, they do so in grand fashion. However, the wins have been ugly, for the most part. This doesn’t breed much confidence that they really can perform at a high level. I’m not even going to use the word “consistently” there because I’d just like to see the high level performance once or twice first…then we can work toward consistency. Kinda like Major League.
Arrowhead Pride
Where I come to see how and why the Chiefs will lose this week.
by NotAGoodName on Nov 10, 2011 11:44 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Also
I like how if we beat a team with backups in, it’s a worthless win, but if we’re starting backups in significant positions it’s not an excuse.
by NotAGoodName on Nov 10, 2011 11:50 AM CST up reply actions
I wasn't a fan of the Haley hiring
But still found myself having to defend the guy against a lot of unfair and undue criticism over the past few years. All that said, the results just really aren’t there. I don’t think the guy’s particularly suited to be a head coach or coordinator—much like Herm Edwards.
I think Pioli can manage a program very well, but I think his biggest mistakes so far—bigger than even Jackson at #3—have been in the coaching department. Hiring Haley, not finding a real defensive coordinator, waiting until the last moment to fire Gailey, not really replacing Gailey, then a couple of great moves in Weis and Crennel, but then (allegedly) letting Weis leave due to incompatibility with Haley…it just hasn’t been good.
"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"
― Isaac Asimov
by burntorangehorn on Nov 10, 2011 12:09 PM CST reply actions
Man, that's a lot of games for Haley to not shake hands with the other coach
Maya: "What are your first impressions of Denver?"
Mozgov: "I must break you..."
Future potential blowouts:
Yep. I betting the Chiefs win by a blowout in one of these games. Lose a couple close games, win a close one or two and maybe, God Forbid, get blown out in one. So what?
@ New England
Pittsburgh
@Chicago
@New York
Green Bay
Oakland
"Even when the Chiefs win, they can’t win." - Aiken Drum
Eh. Pioli and Haley know what most are just realizing....
This team is far from great. Read War Room. Pioli knows the team needs to improve greatly. Still, to discount the job of Pioli and Haley is both ignorant and premature. Losing Charles, Berry and Moeaki hurt. The Chiefs hadnt even had time to adequately upgrade all the starting positions, let alone build depth….and then lost a star and two talented, up-and-coming second year players.
How about we wait to see what the 2nd and 3rd drafts become?
Haley came in and instantly got slow, undisciplined players in shape.
There are obvious weaknesses on this team. They know it, we know it. Offensive coordinator, the o-line, and d-line, depth…..but it takes time.
"At one point in your life you either have the thing you want or the reasons why you don't "
This thread is crazy
It’s turning into a civil war if you will of Arrowhead Pride.
The Our team sucks and I’m not happy with anything
I hate a few players and some coaches and I’m not happy
Since we lost LAST WEEK I’m not happy
We haven’t won a playoff game in forever so I’m not happy
I want our team to do better
vs
Haley and Pioli are the best ever
I say anything positive and I get attacked
I look at the upside of the team only
We beat the Raiders and Chargers this year once so I’m HAPPY
I can’t look at any negative….ever
Then you have the sides riding the fence. This might turn ugly and get heavily moderated.
What if I say some positive and some negative things?
Is that like selling weapons to both sides?
We Don't Hear The Hate
by TRSChief on Nov 10, 2011 1:57 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Keep your head down
You will be called crazy for being too positive
or
Not a real fan for being too negative
by Chiefsfan85 on Nov 10, 2011 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Or the dreaded flip-flop fan
That stings. And the smell never comes out.
by SCKSChief on Nov 10, 2011 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Haha exactly
No win for anyone around here..
You’re either a hater, a homer, or a flip flopper.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Hamerflip
Meh...
I don't only want to stand out here when we get our asses kicked... I like to stand out here when we kick somebody else's ass... Big Win, Big Win ~ Todd Haley
@w_a_watts
by Chief-blinders-on on Nov 10, 2011 4:32 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I treat my football team like I treat my government
I choose not follow them with blind optimism, I believe nothing I hear and only half of what I see. I’m very critical and expect only the best. And in both cases I can’t personally select the people to lead, so I reserve the right to judge, critique, and bash at anytime I choose.
I also however love them with endless compassion, follow them, cheer them on, and hope for the best in everything they do. But that doesn’t mean they don’t screw things up and in which case we should hold them accountable.
by Lil'Sparky on Nov 11, 2011 4:38 PM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
No, don't do it
Then you will inevitably have someone call you a flip-flopper or waffler or whatever the title is for the people that try and be objective and see both good AND bad in the team. Heaven forbid that should happen.
Hrm. What kind of flip flop are we talking about here?
The beach kind?
Or the kind you wear to take a shower in a public place like a dorm or a truck stop?
I might be okay with beach flip flopping. I don’t know if I can handle shower fungus flip flopping though.
We Don't Hear The Hate
My overall synopsis of the Haley/Pioli regime
They both bring great things to the table, and are very passionate about the job (You can see Haleys passion every game, how awesome was it seeing him fistpump after Succups FG?) and Pioli’s can be seen even with the fiew quotes from the book I have read.
BUT…what Clay is saying isn’t wrong…he’s not making shit up, the stats don’t lie, this team has not been good enough and I think the sole reason for this is we don’t have a good enough QB. I don’t know how else to sugar coat this, but this offense, especially if we had JC and TM playing could be the best in the NFL. Oline is solid (Miami: Mulligan), WR corpes has Top 3 potential, running game is elite, and the QB (most important person in the stadium) is somewhere between “not completely incompetent” and “useless”.
I’d hate to waste Piolis talent and Haleys beardgrowing ability on having a great team during their core players prime with a shitty QB. He’s got all the things we like in a QB, except ability and he’s holding this team back. The core players have maybe 5 years left and I think it’s paramount we do whatever it takes this offseason that Cassel is no where near the Chiefs. Get Manning, draft Barkley, position the draft to get Luck…I don’t know what the answer is, but I’ve seen MORE than enough in Cassels 2 1/2 years to say he’s not going to get us to what we want.
I wish I could be like many others and blindly support the Chiefs but for Christ sakes I just turned 33 and we haven’t even SNIFFED a Superbowl in my lifetime and I’m not content with 10 win season scattered in among a bunch of lousy seasons. The league has evolved and as it is today, a Trent Dilfer led team will NEVER win a Superbowl.
by craig in calgary on Nov 10, 2011 2:09 PM CST reply actions 9 recs
You're a shitty fan
-craig2011’ed
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Nov 10, 2011 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
You did indeed
Just create a new verb.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Wrong
you only need to look in the mirror for that.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
Have to agree. Either Cassel makes a very manly second half of the season turnaround and wows us all (in which case, f'in yay for us)
Or we look at taking the training wheels off of Stanzi, or kidnapping Aaron Rodgers or something. (Or Barkley, RG3, etc).
This is the year that Cassel is the easiest to let go the way his contract is structured. I think Pioli probably has him under a microscope this season, and set up the contract that way on purpose. Three seasons is enough time to tell if he’s the guy or not.
We Don't Hear The Hate
Man I will turn in my man card and squeal like a little girl if we manage to draft RG3
Won’t even lie about it.
We Don't Hear The Hate
I think there are a fair number of us that would
I know MN and I would also…well, I shouldn’t speak for him and the squealing part, I guess.
Oh I would
Repeatedly.
Honestly though, any of the top 4 would be a good grab IMO. Excellent QB class this year.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
See, if we are going QB, lets go QB.
I’m all for Dikta’ing the draft and getting Luck. We have a young team, new picks would just be inactive anyways (Hudson, Powe, Stanzi)…why settle for 2nd or 3rd best just because it is cheaper?
by craig in calgary on Nov 10, 2011 2:25 PM CST up reply actions
I'm for it if they can work it out. Not sure anyone will be willing to deal out of the #1 spot with Luck there.
If that happens, I’ll be so elated I’ll squeal like two little girls.
We Don't Hear The Hate
(winces)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
The more I hear about that story the more irritated I get
I mean, how many grown men out there don’t have the stones to beat the ever-loving crap out of a dude like that?
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
It drives me nuts
The whole story is a lesson in “How To Screw Up A Situation”.
Barry Switzer said it best in the Oklahoman. ESPN also had the quote last night.
What really irks me is the fact that the AG new in ’98 and nothing happened then.
People like to dump on Ditka and the Vikings for the Walker trade....
What they don’t mention is that in those cases the teams traded the whole draft for a dime a dozen RB. We’re talking about the second coming at QB. Trade the farm.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
I could not Shave for that
No Guts, No Glory Win for Luck
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 10, 2011 8:24 PM CST up reply actions
What if the Colts land the pick
And shop Manning?
I’d give up our first for that…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
In a heart beat...
This team is an instant super bowl favorite with Pey Pey
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
Glad to have my thoughts confirmed
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
What scares me there
is two-fold. 1) Obviously the neck. Can our oline keep him alive? 2) Can he adjust to our system? I sure as hell don’t wanna fall into offensive hell the way the Colts have when he leaves.
If those are rectifiable things, I’m in.
The neck is all that scares me
I think Manning can play any system. Frankly, I think with Manning throwing to him Bowe would become the best receiver in the league.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 11, 2011 10:43 AM CST up reply actions
Outstanding get if we can do it.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 13, 2011 12:38 PM CST up reply actions
There's no way Pioli ties his fate and rep to KCQB#7
If the dude continues to fail he’ll cut bait if only to save face.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
I agree
I think Cassel’s been given plenty of time and weapons, and while he’s improved, it hasn’t been nearly enough.
MAYBE if he was a young guy, and this was his 2nd year in the league, I’d say he was at a decent spot.
But he’s not, and it’s not. Eventually, you have to think that we’ve seen the ceiling.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 4:07 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
If he was Dalton, Newton, Ponder…hell even Bradford (ironically this is a list of guys I’d rather have than #7), the level of “progress” would be acceptable. Still, at this point with KC, the boom or bust year would be upon us by this point.
by SCKSChief on Nov 11, 2011 7:40 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
You folks took the words right out of my mouth.
I’m all for Cassel winning as many games as he can in ‘11, but I beleive we have seen the ceiling…and even if we’ve got another year with Cassel on the squad, it’s more of a “transition” year.
If Pioli’s watching the same games we are, he has to know that Matt just doesn’t quite have it. He has MOST of it, some of the time…but that’s just not quite enough in the NFL today.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 11, 2011 11:12 AM CST up reply actions
Luckily you can still party
when you are 80 :P
Cassel just isn’t consistent. I think that’s the biggest thing I have against him. If he played at his highest or near highest ability every game he would be a top 8 QB in the league.
I agree with the fact that Cassel isn't winning games for the chiefs
and everyone here has heard all about it. What we should continue to do is talk about what we can do about it, realistically. Losing games to position ourselves to draft better is NOT an option. That has to be one of the most dangerous games to play. We arent going to be in a position to get RGIII. Do we want to trade everything we’ll ever own to aquire P.M.? No. So let’s talk about realistic options for the QB position. Somehow Chicago got Cutler……don’t get me wrong, i don’t think there is a QB i hate more than that pouffer, but i did watch the monday night game this week and for a second wished he was wearing red. Let’s not blindly support anything, but critisizing what we have without realistic suggestions on what we can do gets old.
Go luck yourself.
by ottawachiefsfan on Nov 10, 2011 6:33 PM CST up reply actions
Then kill two birds with one stone...
play Stanzi, see what you have and if he’s a bum then we’re in a better position to get RG3. Per PeyPey, if they get Luck its not going to take much to get PeyPey. They’re in need of players and aren’t going to want to pay him to back up a rookie.
Standing on the corner in a white Godfather hat. He drives a long black gangster Cadillac. He can steal a broads mind, man, in three or four minutes. It’s not how long you talk, brother, it’s what you put in it.
by HIV 2 Elway on Nov 10, 2011 6:41 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
We need to get these plans down in writing
Pioli needs help
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 10, 2011 8:28 PM CST up reply actions
That sounds like a perfectly reasonable plan to me
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I hate Peyton Manning...but...I'm in favor.
I think he’s one of those “good at everything, not on my team so I hate you” kind of deals.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 11, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
Nah, sign Ingle Martin
That’s a plan that you can be proud of.
"You gonna pull them pistols...or whistle Dixie?"
I can go with this.
"You've only got 10 fingers to stick in the dike. Is there a breaking point that pushes you over the edge?...Where's the limit?"
-Marty Schottenheimer
by go_saleaumua on Nov 13, 2011 12:39 PM CST up reply actions
If only..
Pioli listened to the words written here. We would be super bowl favorites right now. And every year from here on out.
by JayhawksNChiefs on Nov 10, 2011 8:40 PM CST reply actions
Sell the farm for a true shot at glory. Let the chips fall where they may.
That sir is my game.
My take
is we don’t have enough cap money to afford Peyton if there was a chance to sign him. We also would not be able to protect him with the off line we have. I also think he would retire before coming to KC and taking a chance to getting killed from lack of any protection. Now, looking at the remaining schedule, I see no chance of drafting any of the top 4 QB’s. So why not draft the best off tackle we can get, or possibly the best NT. All the talk about QB seems moot to me if we can’t protect him. I have watched Weeden from Ok St and have been impressed with his maturity, arm strength and accuracy. I know he is 29 and not the QB that we really want to take us to the Super Bowl, but I submit that there just isn’t anyone out there who we can realistically get this year. I think Weeden is better than Cassel and Stanzi and would be more than likely make us a competitor in the AFC West. That is about the best that we can hope for in the immediate future. Pioli missed the boat in years past as far as a QB is concerned.
If QB is determined to be a need
You do whatever you have to get one.
As far as protection goes, up until the MIA game Cassel was at the tail end of the pack for times sacked. And despite that game, he’s still only in the middle of the Pack. It’s not like we’re the Texans of yesteryear, where the QB has no chance.
And in any event, QB>O-line. Because QB>Everyone.
Our line isn’t great, but it’s not terrible. Just a few weeks ago everyone was singing its praises after they did a fantastic job protecting Cassel against IND and OAK…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
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