What If The QBOTF Isn't There?
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 7:08 AM CST
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PrintFrom the FanPosts -Joel
As we begin to accept that the Kansas City Chiefs will probably miss the playoffs and will be drafting in the top 15 next year, there is a lot of talk about who the Chiefs should be taking...OK, we've already been talking about it for a couple months now. Obviously, the majority of Chiefs fans are looking at QB with the first pick, and rightfully so. Personally, I agree. I would love for KC to get Andrew Luck, Matt Barkley, or Robert Griffin III.
However, I am a plan for the worst and hope for the best type of guy.
Looking ahead at the 2012 NFL Draft, I see some very worrisome possibilities in the Chiefs drafting the QBOTF with the first pick. It is a strong QB class with plenty of potential stars, journeymen starters, and quality backups. However, we have had our fill of journeymen and backups...we want our star. So, that limits our options to Luck, Barkley, and Griffin.
So what's the problem? There are several:
1. Indianapolis - The Colts have all but wrapped up the 1st overall pick, and with an aging Peyton Manning coming off of an injured neck, they would have to be crazy to pass over Andrew Luck.
2. Miami - Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. That's what everyone needs to be thinking when it comes to Matt Moore. The Dolphins would be nuts to put their future in his hands. The Panthers tried that, and now have Cam Newton...so the Dolphins will get Matt Barkley. Hmm, maybe the Chiefs should sign Matt Moore so we can get our QBOTF?
3. Washington - John Beck or Rex Grossman? Yeah, let's face it, the Skins will be going QB early this year. The good news here is that Landry Jones is rated higher than RGIII on some boards...so maybe the Chiefs dodge a bullet with that one.
4. Seattle - That bullet we just dodged? Yeah, it turned around and got us. Seattle gave up a 3rd rd pick for Charlie Whitehurst so they wouldn't have to draft a QB. They signed Tavaris Jackson so they wouldn't have to draft a QB. I really don't see this happening a 3rd time. Griffin just got snagged.
5. Arizona - Kevin Kolb failed miserably. There was some life with John Skelton, but that quickly fell apart as well. The Cardinals may be looking at a new coach and a new QB to go with him. If any of those top 3 are available, I just can't see them passing on that opportunity.
6. Philadelphia - What?! That's right, you heard me. Don't think for a second that the Eagles won't pull the trigger if the opportunity is there. Mike Vick started out great for them, but then he has steadily declined, just like he did in Atlanta. Vince Young has played well enough that he can probably get himself a pretty good opportunity somewhere else.
7. New York - Don't get it twisted, Mark Sanchez is playing for his future right now. Rex Ryan pulling him off the 1st team for a couple practices wasn't about him losing his job to Mark Brunell this year, it was about him losing his job to a new guy next season. Sanchez isn't down and out yet, but if the Jets don't make the playoffs? Well, Sanchez might want to warm up his clipboard arm.
So there it is. My list of concerns. And this doesn't include the teams like Chicago, Denver, and New Orleans who will be in the market for backups and future projects.
Now, the Chiefs do have the option to trade up. The Jets did it for Sanchez and the Falcons did it for Jones...but are the Chiefs in the same place as either of those teams? I look at the roster, and it sure doesn't appear that way. I'm not against a trade up, but I can't say I'm thrilled about the idea.
So here is the question Chiefs fans:
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of Arrowhead Pride's writers or editors. It does reflect the views of this particular fan though, which is as important as the views of Arrowhead Pride writers or editors.
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If QB isn't there
We have to take best player available on the offensive line.
No team will ever win with a spotty oline. We need that to be as solid as a rock.
So I say offensive line first and foremost. I would even go for another olinemen later in the draft.
Depth a oline.
Inside LB
Safety depth
TE depth
RB depth
NT depth
How long should you try? Until.
- Jim Rohn
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 29, 2011 11:34 PM CST via mobile reply actions
That's right along with my thinking.
I think a solid RT (Riley Reiff) or LG (David DeCastro) would do a lot to shore up our o-line. That alone would give Cassel/Orton/Palko/Stanzi/whoever a much better chance at being effective.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 29, 2011 11:40 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
And just think what JC could do with a good line…unimaginable things.
How long should you try? Until.
- Jim Rohn
by Matt_Grbac on Nov 29, 2011 11:43 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
with a good O line,
Charles could rush for 2,000 yards
And did
A bunch of times.
He’s a case in point. So is Priest Holmes.
I love Priest, but behind an average line he’s an average back. Dude was a perfect fit for a great line with his patience
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
yep. in my opinion, once again not knowing every prospect etc
if their vince wilfork is not there, as in, ridiciulous once in 4 drafts NT who can intercept passes and dominate the middle, I see little reason to not take an OL. Its an obvious need, and can have an immediate starter. Plus I really really really like what pioli is doing on our o-line with hudson/asamoah young interior linemen, I know he wanted kelce in the draft, but it would be nice to continue to build upon that young line.
Team Pioli/Haley. Decade of the Chiefs.
Team Colquitt
well done, citadel, and 'grats on your Front Paged-ness :-)
see, all of this is precisely why many of us have been wanting to see what Stanzi can (or can’t) do … to see just how high a priority that whole QBotF really is (or isn’t, as the case may be)
Russell Wilson from Wisconsin is an option … lot of options out there, really … big question is does Pioli go that route or not? you’re likely right about who gets taken in the early parts of the draft, the QB Herd will be thinned out a good bit by the time we get around to our pick (not that our pick will be way down the line the rate things are going, but whatever, right?)
well done!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
A very good point on why people are calling for Stanzi
Not because we think he’ll be the long term answer (he probably won’t), but to at least SEE….
And hey, maybe Orton… what am I saying?
Sigh…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Do you get the feeling that the players kinda feel the same?
With the recent release of Kolbert & now Gaither, I wonder if some of it could be due to players questioning Haley’s decisions (on Palko, Stanzi & otherwise). Or maybe it’s just my bias toward playing Stanzi coloring my opinion…
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Could very well be
I hope not, but given some of the decisions made in the game, I HOPE some of the players are questioning things at least a little.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I don't.
I want the GM to question the HC. And maybe the coordinators if something is blatant.
The players need to get the play call and focus on their assignments. They have to trust the coaches and the coaches have to trust the players to execute. Can’t go around second guessing or things just won’t work on the field.
If it isn’t working, then you get different personnel on the field or better coaches. But as soon as players start questioning the coaches at every turn, the locker room is lost and a very bad team culture sets in. Then you become perennial losers all over again.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Fair enough
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
How about this
I want players to be willing to discuss issues with the coach within reason, not blatently challenge his authority and split the locker room.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I'm always good with that.
That should be during the week, practice, film review time though.
Once you’re on the field, you get your assignment and you make it work. Shouldn’t be out there thinking, “Man why am I running this route again?!?” or whatever, depending on the position.
Then if it isn’t working, figure out why / hash it out with the coaches then, while preparing for the next game. Hesitation and second guessing will 100% of the time result in bad play if it’s happening on the field, though.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Hey man, you'd be surprised how often that stuff eats away at bad teams.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
How dare you suggest I have audacity!
I drive ’merican cars!
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Had that sucker removed surgically.
Can’t eat most of what I wanna, now.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Well said
That’s what I meant. That.
:)
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
You don't become one by having your players second guessing everything on the field.
You fall back into being perennial losers. Or you can stay losers. But you certainly don’t become / stay winners by doing it.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
thanks, MN ... wow, see what I started here? it's a GOOD thing!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I have tried so hard to keep quite during this time of who needs to be playing QB
I understand as fans we have our opinions and that is what is great about AP. I sure seem to think though that we get very short sighted about what the coaches see on a day to day basis. We get to watch them every Sunday. They watch them 7 Times a week. We as fans can be great football men and women just as the staff can be for any team. The difference is the amount of information we as a fan have compared to the amount of information they as the staff have. The coaching staff might not be making the correct decisions. In Springfield on our talk radio everyone is calling for Haley’s head. I couldn’t disagree more with the though personally but that is for another post. Their sure does seem to be a break down in communication and confidence on the offensive side of the ball though this year. We can all have our opinion on what that is. The fact of the matter is though that with the amount of information Haley has and see’s on a everyday basis there is a reason the quarterback has not been Stanzi. I realize some of us want to see him but Haley doesn’t. Seems to me their is a reason for it.
If what you see everyday
isn’t reflected on Sunday, then it is incumbent upon the coach to ratchet up what everyone shows all week long.
I understand your point, and it is a valid one. I just don’t see how, as a coach, you continue to defend a guy base upon recent in-game performances…especially the two clunkers that have been dropped by Palko.
A very valid point by you also....
I would have fired about a dozen people by now if it was me lol. The issue is you can’t throw anyone under the buss when you speaking to the press. Palko knows he has turned the ball over. Everyone on that team knows he has turned the ball over. I personally think everyone on that team has ratcheted up their play to try to help besides some of our backups that need to be gone. The team knows, Palko knows, Haley knows hell we as fans know. I think though you have to look at what other options he has. Either way he goes its not good. These discussions have been had behind closed doors with all of the staff including Pioli. Set back a quarterback that has some real potential to be something in the next few years? That seems like a wasted pick and not putting people in the best position to succede. I don’t have the answers as it seems the staff for the Chiefs don’t either right now. I myself think there is more at work here than just the Chiefs 2011 season. I think they have a plan and are sticking to it.
I agree with you about the bus thing
The hard reality is, the brass has made this bed that the Chiefs are in…now we have to sleep in it. Seemingly forever…
I honestly don’t think playing Stanzi sets him back. The whole team is floundering with Palko, why not try Stanzi? Redshirting the guy doesn’t help the overall team, IMO.
Appreciate it.
Kinda surprising. Get home from the gym this morning and BAM! Front page.
I think Russell Wilson falls into the 2nd tier. He, Kellen Moore, and Case Keenum won’t be considered 1st rd talent because of their height. And that’s a legitimate concern. A lot of people will point to Drew Brees and Doug Flutie, but ignore the thousands of guys that didn’t work out because of height.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Not acceptable!
We need to get our QBOTF now! I dont care what it takes. What good is it to have a Jamaal Charles if this league is built around Brady, Manning, Brees. Its a case of ‘haves and have-nots’ and I’m sick of being a have-not. I dont care if we have to trade JC or picks. The days of having a solid D and a dominant running game are long gone and are no longer the recipe for winning championships. If you want to compete and be taken seriously, YOU MUST DRAFT YOUR QBOTF!!!!
Desperation is a bad position to be bargaining from ...
I could see Luck costing something like 4 first round picks over the next 5 years; Barkley 2 first, a 2nd, a 4th and throw in another chip (Glen Dorsey, Justin Houston, one of the Brandon’s, etc.). I like RGIII, not as much confindence in Landry Jones (although he has the physical tools and use to be accurate) and of course Tannehill has tools as well but may go in the late half of 1st round at this rate. Some other QBOTF … Todd Blackledge (K.C. 5th), Steve Spurrier (S.F. 1st overall, just ahead of Bob Griese), Alex Smith (1st overall, might be available), Ryan Leaf (2nd overall, I wonder if we can get him out of retirement), David Carr (1st overall), Akili Smith (top 5?), Joey Harrington (top 5?) — the list goes on an on. At the price of trading up, I would’ve rather have Carson Palmer for a 1st and a (1st or 2nd) — NO WAY PIOLI PULLS THE TRIGGER ON THAT DEAL. Who else could be available with talent … Phillip Rivers (they’ll probably give him 2 more years to fail), Eli Manning (NY judges harshly, but give him 2 years as well), Peyton Manning (we could put him back in a walking cast and he’ll still be better than any of ours), maybe Bellechick will let us have an older Tom Brady on the back end of the Matt Cassel deal.
In this draft, what I’ve seen are 2 upper echelon QB’s who I think can start from Day 1, Landry Jones was in the mix, but seems to have lost some confidence which is a dangerous thing if youre going to step up and lead a team in NFL. Griffin is an amazing athlete, and may play himself into the top 5 just on potential … but I doubt he’ll be amazing his 1st year. Tannehill seems like a great prospect (and I think probably the only one we have a shot at that seems affordable). Then their are 3 OT’s who’ll probably go in Top 10, throw in Justin Blackmon, the last of the dying breed of 1st round running backs Trent Richardson (actually a perfect complement to Jamal, but we do have a lot of other needs), throw in Morris Clairborne and maybe some silly team (i hope not K.C.) will pick a lazy Quinton Coples (he seems to take about 1/2 the game off).
My vote:
One of the OTs
Trade down slightly and get one of the elite ILB’s – Kuechly probably a 4.9 40 guy with a 4.1 mind to read plays. Burfict might be the next great one, or we might lead the league in 1st downs given up through personal fouls, Te’o is huge, fast and a high character “right 53” guy but seems to miss more than he should (but I wouldn’t mind at all). Oh, and I think Hightower will be a darn good pro as well.
We really need a DL — at any of the positions — who can play the run and be a viable rush threat. I hate Coples work ethic, loved Alameda Ta’amu after watching him almost single handedly beat up on Nebraska’s OL in last years bowl game (but he’s no Haloti Ngata, but 2/3 of him wouldn’t be that bad). He hasn’t been able to single handedly dominate like Ngata did at Oregon.
I agree with those above — shore up the OL first.
by Dawson to Taylor on Nov 30, 2011 1:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
So let me get this right
Instead of going all in for a QB You would rather build the pieces around the team- offense and defensive side of the ball….
You make too much sense for it to work.
Unfortunately we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I’d rather have studs all around and a mediocre QB. Trent green was mediocre. But his team was balls deep.
This draft will decide/devide the fan base but it is the right thing to do.
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Nov 30, 2011 1:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Sure would love to have a superstar qb
I just want to also have a team to go with him so we can actually protect, run the ball and compete
by Dawson to Taylor on Nov 30, 2011 2:59 AM CST up reply actions
amen and well said, my friend
love how you made Mas Cervezas give in to the logic :-)
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
how many
playoff games did Trent win again?
QBR 20.4 9/18 yards 70 3.9 long 22 int3 Td 0 Cassel
QBR 27.1 19/41 yards166 4.0 long 20 int3 td 0 Orton
QBR 40.5 18/28 yards167 6.0 long 25 int3 Td 0 Palko
What kind of defense did we have again?
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 30, 2011 8:20 AM CST up reply actions
Hah...no. Those were the Greg Robinson days.
Remember when Mighty Maz was the answer at any of the three linebacker spots? LOL….Six foot one, 240+, but we ran him on the weakside. And Eric Downing was the man inside at tackle. ERIC DOWNING!
Suddenly, I’m not so mad about Kelly Gregg anymore….I just got the cold chills. Ugh, that was some awful defense.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 30, 2011 1:16 PM CST up reply actions
I'd take a Trent Green-type any day in any season
you betcha, give me a high-powered offense that moves the ball easily and scores damned near every single time they touch the ball …
what? did you say that sounds too much like the Colts with Manning or the Packiers with Rogers or the Saints with Brees? yeah, I guess it does, huh … and the problem?
right then … let’s get on with it!
Twisted Lord of AP Color Commentary (H/T - Loco)
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
I like Vermeils offense.
They could run and pass, If we had any kind of defense we would have won a Super Bowl.
We have the Defense to stop em
at full strength
remember Trent’s nickname?
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 8:40 PM CST up reply actions
It does make sense
But this is as deep a QB draft as we’re gonna see anytime soon (judging by the talent at the NCAA level currently).
Next years draft could possibly produce a couple of QBs, one being Logan Thomas out of Va Tech. Other than that, I’m not sure who comes out. Like me, all OU fans fear that Landry Jones and his fucking happy feet will return for another go-round in Norman, which would have him in next years draft. Still, I hate the guy (as a player!). Talk about a product of a system. No thanks.
Who else is out there for next season? I’m telling you guys, the BACKUP at Baylor, the Florence kid can flat spin it. Otherwise…I don’t know what is up and coming for next years draft at this position.
I would put all my eggs in the QB basket and try to trade up and get RG3. If that doesn’t happen, maybe a guy like Russell Wilson or Brandon Weeden are there when we draft in the 2nd. I’d take that all day long. If there is no first round QB available (God forbid), we have to address our needs on the offensive line. If we are addressing those needs, we need to trade down to do so and acquire an extra pick, with which we select another offensive lineman.
KC’s needs, as I see them right now:
QB
RT (BRich. Need I say more?)
LT (Move Albert back to guard if there is a legit franchise LT available in draft or FA)
NT(Gregg ain’t no spring chicken and Powe is apparently not that good)
TE (Have to have insurance cause Moeaki is an injury waiting to happen. Plus NE makes 2 TEs look really sexy)
DE (Need to trade Dorsey and get an end that actually REQUIRES a double team)
S (McGraw needs to go bye-bye)
S (Sabby needs to be out of the NFL)
S (Washington/Langford/whoever needs to go work at the carwash)
Add trading cassel for anything
And I’m down with this. IF we went this route then we are only 1 step away from being a perinnieal powerhouse! That step; a franchise QB.
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Nov 30, 2011 8:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Brilliant.
Add trading cassel for anything
And I’m down with this. IF we went this route then we are only 1 step away from being a perinnieal powerhouse! That step; a franchise QB.
Let’s say we do. Let’s say we trade Cassel.
What do you suppose we do until we get that franchise QB that’ll make us a perennial powerhouse (the kind who come around so often that I can think only about 30% of NFL teams actually have one at any given time)? Do we let fly with Palko? Give Stanzi his shot for an entire season? Hang our hopes on Neckbeard, thinking he’ll actually want to stick around here next year?
agreed
I would not be for cutting of the the best QB the Chiefs have cause of personnal dislike
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 8:42 PM CST up reply actions
Not acceptable
Why draft a qb just to have him sit on the bench for 3 years. How do we know that Stanzi is not the answer. If they won’t give him a shot, why did they waste a draft pick on him.
It's a 5th round flyer
Not a top 10 pick in Stanzi, not a big deal if he doesn’t pan out which the odds are saying he wont
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:32 AM CST up reply actions
most 5th rounders get cut
yep a flyer that has a bad ankle when we need him? Cassel had bad ribs and an appendetomy and hit the field
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, they really screwed up in Green Bay by drafting Rodgers 24th over all then letting him sit for three years.
That really killed his development.
Poor guy could’ve amounted to something if they’d just tossed him in his rookie season.
Tom Brady, too. Having to develop behind Bledsoe. That just sucked. Really should’ve just plugged him in straight away as a 6th round draft pick and let slip the dogs of war. He could’ve maybe made a career in the NFL if they had.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Yeah
How many Aaron Rodgers qb’s are in this draft.
Plenty of rookie qb’s are doing quite well, Dalton for the Bengals comes to mind.
See first comment about Rodgers.
KC isn’t exactly great at drafting QB’s
Past is the past
Can not say, oh we failed with Todd so we shouldn’t draft another one.. when its nearly 20 years later
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:38 AM CST up reply actions
Rodgers was taken 24th overall.
How many QB’s are projected to go higher than that in this draft?
Alex Smith was taken first overall in the same draft as Rodgers. Great tools, great skill set, 40 on the wonderlic. Should’ve been a knockout.
Got tossed to the fire in his rookie season. Had 3 different OC’s in his first three seasons to boot.
That’s the stuff that kills a young QB’s development.
If you’re in a stable environment, have an established OC (and preferably QB’s coach) and aren’t playing musical chairs with your coaches – you have a better chance to bring in a rookie QB and not stunt his career.
If not, you need to develop him a bit.
Some teams are in a situation to bring in a guy and start him immediately. We’re not one of those teams yet. Unless the QB has performed really well in a pro style offense in college and is a sure-fire thing like everyone is proclaiming Luck to be.
If Stanzi fell to the 5th round, it was for a reason. The guy has really nice mechanics and a great looking release. But there isn’t a complete package there yet or he would have been snatched up well before the 5th round. If that’s the case, the odds are in favor of him needing some development time before coming in to start.
I’m as anxious as anyone to see what we have in the guy. But some guys are more pro-ready than others coming out of college, and I have to believe that if Stanzi fell to the 5th round – every team in the NFL didn’t see him as an immediate contributor. Also some teams are far better equipped to have a rookie step in an immediately succeed. We’re not that kind of team yet.
So there’s two big reasons why it’s a bad idea to rush Stanzi.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
by TRSChief on Nov 30, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Could Not Agree More...
I will state that I am one of those who desperately wants to see what we have in Stanzi. That said, as you pointed out, he most likely is not NFL-ready at this point in his career. We all saw a little bit of what he can do, and it looks promising. The coaching staff may just be spoon-feeding him and bringing him along lightly until such time they firmly believe he is “game-ready.” Haley suggested he was ready last week, but we were in that game until the closing minutes. At that point, if Haley switches gears and brings the kid in, the game is on his shoulders. If he loses and blows a close game, what do you think that does to his confidence level? So yeah, I can kind of see why they are holding back with the kid, but at the same time, I am torn because, like everybody else, I want to see what he has. That said, I would rather let him develop and potentially become our QBOTF rather than put a target on his back on a season that has nearly ended already.
PICTURE ME SLAPPING THE TOUGHEST GUY YOU KNOW!!!
KCCHIEFSFAN72!!!!
by kcchiefsfan72 on Nov 30, 2011 11:35 AM CST up reply actions
hah
and also the reason the Chiefs sucked for the last 40+ years
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 8:46 PM CST up reply actions
5th round QBs sit for a few years to develop.
That’s why they were drafted late. Highly rated QBs tend to start early. That is the nature of being nhighly rated in the first place.
I see a very real possibility that we will be picking in the top 4 or 5 picks this year. I see no reason to believe that either Barkley, Jones or RGlll willl not be available. If we have to trade up it would be only a few spots and should cost no more than a 2nd round pick. Maybe a 2nd and a 4th. This is the year to draft a QB early. KC has had only a few opportunities as attractive as we have now to draft and develop our own QBOF.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Deep, deep draft for QBs
Pioli has said he’s drafting a QB every year, so I don’t get the since of urgency.
Plus, Cassel, Orton, Stanzi, are all in competition, one of them has to pan out, right?
What about that kid from Houston?!
He’s been doing incredible things!!
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Nov 30, 2011 1:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Im more of a Keenum fan
Than Barkley
by Supersexy on Nov 30, 2011 7:12 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
He is good but it looks like Pioli likes taller QB's
and he is about 6’ 0" – 6’ 1", He is lights out though
None of these QBs has a chance if we don't have a talented Offensive Coord.
by Slim with the Tilted Brim on Nov 30, 2011 8:26 AM CST up reply actions
That is definitely a huge need going into 2012.
Muir is a very good O Line coach. The OC experiment was done for logical reasons and with good intentions, but just isn’t really panning out. I’d rather have dedicated positions coaches, and a legitimate OC.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Which is something we will never have with Haley here.
Or at least not for very long.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
Ya know...
I would actually accept that with open arms. Turner is a good OC, but meh as a head coach.
PICTURE ME SLAPPING THE TOUGHEST GUY YOU KNOW!!!
KCCHIEFSFAN72!!!!
by kcchiefsfan72 on Nov 30, 2011 11:36 AM CST up reply actions
Yup on both Turner and Phillips
Both show that a good coordinator doesn’t make a good HC.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
I'd take those two as my coordinators all day
Although I like our DC…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Imagine if u will
Drop Palko – trade cassel – have
1. Orton
2. Stanzi
3. Kid from Huston
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Nov 30, 2011 8:40 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Andre Ware, David Klingler...
Weak competition, massive stats, little NFL potential. Easy numbers when you are tossing to receivers open by 20 yards.
Don't forget Jamarcus Russell...Big Body - Big Arm
No literally, big body – big arm.
by Slim with the Tilted Brim on Nov 30, 2011 9:48 AM CST up reply actions
Nick Foles - Arizona
His numbers have been very consistent (and good). He’d likely rank higher if the team around him was any good. He’s not as good as Luck, Barkley, or Griffin but we might be able to get him in the 4th or 5th round. His college numbers are more consistent than Stanzi’s were.
by Chiefs4Life on Nov 30, 2011 10:01 AM CST up reply actions
wrong
no qb on this roster is the answer .Pioli better wine and dine Bill Polian in the off season
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 30, 2011 1:15 AM CST reply actions
If Manning can pass a physical, then hell yes
Interestingly, Kansas City is one of the few (if not the only) teams which has enough talent and salary cap space to be attractive to Manning.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Agreed
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Yep...
1. Trade the Farm for Luck
or
2. Make a solid trade for Manning….throw in Cassel for their 2nd QB needs if they take Luck.
or
3. Take Vontaze Burfict ILB or Mante Te"O ILB
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 30, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
I'd go O-line instead
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Nah...
What is it with you O-Line guys….I didnt see Shields and Roaf taking us to Super Bowl.
I like how Pioli is doing it….get one good best bang for the buck O-line guy every year….Awesom-O 5000…then Hudson….next…..bargain Richardson replacement in the 2nd?
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 30, 2011 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with your 2nd paragraph, but
Shields and Roaf would have most likely taken us to Super Bowls IF the D had been even close to average. They basically made Trent Greene and All-Pro QB…I just don’t know if anyone of their caliber is available this year.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Roaf, Shields and Waters also made the careers of Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson.
RBs need at least a crease and QBs tend to do pooly when they are laying on their back.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Any trade for Manning will require our first this year
So when you say 2nd round pick on a RT, that’s what I’m thinking as well…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
If we go with Manning
He would realistically have, what, 3 years left?
This would require OL choices as #2, and likely two others. Still need to address TE, SILB and S then.
Yeah I do not like the idea of trading for Manning
Due to the cost, and not a long term solution. 1 hit and he could be done
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:42 AM CST up reply actions
I'm with you there
the injury thing does scare me…and the fact that we’d likely have another terrible backup (and I mean terrible by league-wide standards).
I would rather spend another first to just take #1 for Luck
Than spend 1 first for possibly 1 snap to 3 years of Manning
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:46 AM CST up reply actions
I read that they can't trade him.
He’s due a $28 mil roster bonus before the trade season opens. No way the Colts give $28 mil in both cash and cap dollars, even for a pair of 1sts. They will either trade the pick, release Manning, or (most likely) just draft Luck and pay them both for a year or two, imo…
sooner or later, God'll cut you down...
I'd take Manning for our first in a heartbeat, if he's healthy
Surround him with the talent we have on offense & this team will be an instant SB favorite for the next three years. Any rookie QB is going to take a minimum of three years to really reach his potential, we have the offensive talent to win now…in three years that may not be the case. Beyond that, Manning is his own (damn good) OC.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
That is the flip side to the coin
Injury = bad. Manning = good.
Find a true LT (draft or FA), move Albert to RG. Insert Hudson at C. Replace Richardson with an actual sentient being.
Give him another TE to work with, in cahoots with Moeaki, and BAM! We have us a SB offense.
Oh, one more wishlist item; get Norv as OC.
Why move Albert to RG when Asamoah has been doing fine there?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:05 AM CST up reply actions
I would just like Albert to LG if we could pull off 2 bookend tackles
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
Yep
that was what I was getting at. With Albert and Asamoah inside, KC has the two maulers they need.
2 bigger OGs who can still move with a nimble C in Hudson would be very nice
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:17 AM CST up reply actions
Exactly
Find a LT somewhere (draft or FA) and same with RT. I really don’t care at this point. If they could be had via FA, it would be nice to draft another young RB with serious NFL skills (I don’t think Battle is, or will ever be that guy). Of course, that comes with the caveat of the list of needs.
Would be hard to get 2 OTs this year
Unless we pass on a QB in the first and get Kalil/Martin
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:43 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, i don't predict or hope for 2 OTs this year
1 OT and 1 G would be awesome
just one OLineman would be acceptable
he's to old
In 3 years we will be back in the same boat.It is time to get a franchise qb of our own
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 30, 2011 3:01 PM CST up reply actions
trade up.
It’s high time we took a chance on a first round QB
KC Draft prediction: No OT taken in first round
I see us trading up.
But not very far we may have to move up only a few spots. Not all the way to #1 but up a few to get Barkley, Jones or my favorite RGlll.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
We may finish with a draft pick low enough to snag RGlll without having to move up.
How about if we finish where we can get Kalil with a first pick then trade back into 1st round and get RGlll. I’d sacrifice the rest of the draft for that and go home early.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
We would have to spend a lot to move back into the top 15 to get RGIII
Possibly top 10
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
I'd just wait for next years LT class tbh
Albert has not been horrible and if we can get an upgrade at RT for this season and possible future the Oline does not look too bad with Hudson getting more reps
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 6:22 PM CST up reply actions
yep
QB and 2nd round RT would be awesome
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 8:50 PM CST up reply actions
Depends who is there, Chapman/Ta'amu/Poe/Hightower could all be sitting there for us
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:08 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, sure I'd love a superstar qb
Just want a team to go with him, so they can do something
by Dawson to Taylor on Nov 30, 2011 2:55 AM CST reply actions
In all honesty, a good immediate contributor at RT can be found in the 2nd almost every year
If we go QB in the 1st this year, we can still go OL and 2 and 3 (2nd for RT, 3rd for OG/C).
I wouldn’t want to take a RT in the 1st. The rest of the weapons are there for the offense to succeed. The D has shown that they can play with top playoff caliber teams. The O sputters badly because of QB and RT right now.
Our WR corps looks sharp. With Charles back, our running game is solid – though we should still take a RB in the second half of the draft. Moeaki is a pretty nice option for a new QB to go to as well, though we need to take another TE (4th/5th maybe).
We need safety depth. (5th/6th?) We can get by at ILB. An upgrade will be nice if one falls, but shouldn’t be a priority over QB / OT / OG / TE.
There is definitely a team to go with a top tier caliber QB. We just need a QB with all the QB tools. We seem to get one that can lead but can’t throw. Has an arm but isn’t accurate. Can throw but can’t lead. Can do a couple of those but not read a Defense. The list goes on.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
So for QB we need
Matt Cassel with a better arm and more accuracy/touch.
If he’s there sign me up. Agree on the tackle after the first too. most experts (Mock Drafts) think we will take one and shuffle our whole line or put a 1st round T at RT.
Honestly, even though his accuracy is inconsistent, it's not his biggest flaw, imo.
After watching a lot of Cassel the last few years, and re-watching, and re-watching, I think his biggest liability is that he just isn’t able to quickly and accurate read a defense.
He goes through progressions, even though it’s a common meme to just recite the old “he stares down receivers!” adage. He just sometimes hangs a second trying to diagnose the coverage, it looks like. He’s unsure. Seems like he’s second guessing himself, whether it’s a lack of confidence in his ability to make the throw (a possibility), second guessing himself at reading the defense, or having had it pounded into his head that turnovers are the devil – so it results in him being overly cautious in trying to make a read to avoid a bad-decision-INT, I dunno. Maybe all of those things.
I used to think that Cassel didn’t audible much because Haley just insisted on having the play that he called be ran regardless, so that Cassel didn’t have the authority to make the adjustment at the line. But the more I see of Cassel, the more I think he just may not have the confidence in his ability to make the read – or just flat out lacks the ability to make the read – and just rolls with what’s called.
I know the clunky manner of play calling can’t help this year, with many plays not coming in and them not breaking the huddle until there’s 9 seconds left on the play clock.
Granted I also don’t like his throwing mechanics / release. But you can work with those when the QB can read a defense well. (Rivers in any year but this one, for example).
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
by TRSChief on Nov 30, 2011 7:36 AM CST up reply actions 3 recs
Well said
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
This
having had it pounded into his head that turnovers are the devil
No QB could survive that and play lights out.
"An atheist is a man who watches a Notre Dame - Southern Methodist University game and doesn't care who wins." - Dwight D. Eisenhower
by electriclight on Nov 30, 2011 3:15 PM CST up reply actions
Agree with TRSChief.....
a) QB is biggest need. The more skilled the better. A highly rated QB who can still get better is more value than a good prospect who can get better when and if he develops.
b) Oline is next biggest need. (2 positions)
c) NT or DE is next.
d) Then comes ILB, RB, DB, TE in any order.
Between Draft and FA, this year could put us over the top and make us very competitive next year. (Competitive= Able to win a playoff game and Challenge for Super Bowl)
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
cep tif we fire the Head Coach that got us here
the hate for Haley is unreal and totally unjustified.
If I remember correctly Pioli got the job in 2009 and waffled on Edwards till he fired him and then hired Haley after most every team in transition had put together their coaching staffs, we got leftovers and it showed. 2010 we got a full off-season (Haley’s 1st) and hired a very impressive staff that led us to the playoffs. Charlie Wies bails for whatever reson you want to attrib the guy and we go in lockout mode for the entire NFL…
Sheesh Haley has ONE off-season in his entire Head coaching career to put what he wants on the field and wins the AFC West championship.
Now most of you all can’t wait to fire his ASS
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
It ain' all Haley my friend. We cought a ton of good breaks with penalties, turnovers
and injuries. I like Haley, but I don’t like him so much I wan’t the team to lose. There has been several hints in the local radio, by former players, that Haley has lost the locker room. If so, he has to go.
If RGII, Barkley. and Jones aren't there we're going BPA
I’m betting either Orton or Cassel will get the nod at QB next year regardless and give an early pick or Stanzi time to develop.
BOOM!
Forget Jones
He’s awful. Don’t look at the numbers. Those numbers are to Landry Jones what the curtain is to the Wizard of Oz.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
I agree on Jones
unlike Luck, RG3, and Barkley he has not shown up in big games, he is just a prototype QB physically. reminds me of Clausen, will be all hype and good numbers in a system set up to have good numbers.
Quiet, Sshhhhh.
Let Luck, Jones and Barkley be hyped to the max. Let RGlll fall to where we can snag him without having to trade up. We will have a pick in top ten. Maybe as early as 4 or 5. BPA may well be one of the top QBs. We just need to pick the correct one. Not the Todd Blackledge of the group.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
If the Chiefs have to roll with this group of QBs again then they better draft Richardson
Hand off to Charles and Richardson all day. I don’t want to have to watch the current group of QBs try to win a game next year
Would be a solid upgrade over T. Jones.
Especially when we really don’t know how Jamaal Charles will do after surgery. Many backs never fully recover.
Yesterday's world
In today’s NFL guys come back from ACL tears
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Priest Holmes...
In Holmes’ case, he actually became faster. Before his ACL tear, he ran the 40-yard dash in 4.5 seconds; after his recovery, his time had been trimmed to 4.3 seconds.
First of all, you throwin' too many big words at me, and because I don't understand them, I'm gonna take 'em as disrespect...
Richardson may be the best RB available.
However, ya gotta look at the line he runs behind. That does make a difference. Many other backs will also be available who have not had the exposure of being on such a highly touted team nor the luxury of running behind such solid blocking and well designed schemes.
I’d rather have a playmaker at the QB position first.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
I think if the top three (Luck, Barkley, RG3) arent there
Trade down and stockpile picks.
Jones seems like he is far from the top and closer to the 2nd round QBs, so if you like him trade back then if he is not there take a tannehill in the 2nd if you like. The last thing i want is to pick a QB just to pick one. We need to draft a franchise QB that is or has potential not one we try to force or make into one.
Also have to look at the next class may be weak at QB so a second round QB this year may equate a 1st next as far as talent. If Haley is still here i can see them taking a 2nd-4th round QB for competition with Stanzi and see who comes out while Orton and Cassel fight for the 1-spot in training camp. Who knows i have no clue how they view our QB situation, it would be nice to come out of the draft with QB, DT, ILB, S, OT, CB, OG. (not in that order)
I agree
Trade down, maybe even twice, and shore up the holes. If done wisely we could end up with 4-5 picks in the top 80, and fill several holes on the roster. Of course, if a QB they like is there, they have to take him.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
IMO we pick around #5.
If other top QBs are gone we may still have a choice of RGlll or Kalil. I’d take RGlll and get a OT or OG/C on next few picks. Hit FA for what we need in the other areas. Even with the best of O-Lines a QB needs to be able to extend the play. RGlll has that ability. (Plus all the other skills)
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
I just don't see how we are in the top-5
Right now there are 13 teams with 4 or fewer wins, and most would pick ahead of us due to schedule strength. I also think we’ll win another game this year, making the chances even slimmer.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I'm too lazy to look
but who are those four teams?
I know there is Indy, Miami, Seattle….who else? Jacksonville?
Honestly, I don’t see this team winning another game, not with Palko. I don’t think we’ll see Orton this week yet either. Orton might surprise and drive us into the low teens in the draft.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
Indy, St.Louis, Minnesota, Carolina
you think any of those teams need QB’s? Really need QB’s?
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 9:06 PM CST up reply actions
None of those 3 pick QB
They don’t hurt us if we get more wins than them.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
No need to say the "wrong, wrong, wrong"
A simple correction is fine. Simmer down. I wasn’t sure, hence my asking.
I’m with MN, they don’t need QBs.
Other team with similar records (now) do not have the injuries nor the schedule of the Chiefs.
Chiefs will slide to where we pick somewhere around 5th IMO.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
A superstar QB doesn't do shit without some guys to protect him.
If we get the oppurtunity, we CAN’T pass of Kalil. Jonathan Martin is option #2.
As much as I’d love RGIII, you’ve already showed that he’s probably not gonna be available.
by NigerianNightmare on Nov 30, 2011 7:21 AM CST reply actions
That maybe true, but I can't root for them to take a QB over Jon Martin, either.
A young QB, as in any young QB besides Palko, could be amazing behind a line with Martin and some guys switched around. He already has a great running game and 3 studly receivers.
Trent Green was never really great and besides Tony G, he never had good receivers. But he had the best offensive line of all-time to protect him and the best running game in the league to fall back on.
by NigerianNightmare on Nov 30, 2011 7:26 AM CST up reply actions
I would say this would be my order for what you are saying
1. Luck
2. Kalil
3a. Batkley
3b. RG3
5. Martin
6. Reiff
7 L. Jones
Ref Reiff?
As an Iowa fan I am usually supportive of the players they turn out. However, this year Riley Reiff and Shawn Prater (DB) both made first team All Big 10 and I don’t think either one of them deserved it. There has been talk since last year about how Reiff was going to be the next great T to come out of Iowa. He might be, but if he is smart he will come back for his senior year because the way he played this year he was pretty average and not deserving of a being a first day pick.
I just don't see the love that RG3 is getting
I watched him play this weekend and I don’t see an NFL QB there. What am I missing?
I disagree about the Eagles.
They just gave Vick a huge contract, and they need to fix their o line so their QB can make a play. Also I see the so called “dream team” like the Miami Heat of last year. It took some time for all that talent to work together. My bet is they are a force to reckon with next year in the NFC.
Also the stunt pulled with Sanchez is the same one pulled last year to make Sanchez start playing a whole lot better.
Same with the Cardinals
They gave a lot for Kolb, and paid him. They aren’t giving up yet.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
There have already been rumors swirling about the Cards considering it.
After Skelton came out and played well in his first couple of games, there was a lot of talk about the Cards cutting their losses at the end of this season.
They still have a lot of money invested over the next few years, and Kolb hasn’t appeared to be worth it. What they will be looking at is whether or not there was any improvement to the team by playing Kolb instead of Derek Anderson…so far, the answer is no.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
There are a lot of considerations to be made with keeping a QB though.
The Eagles will have some serious money moving to do next season to make sure they’re under the cap. That means they will probably try to trade off some talent. Mike Vick is getting older and now has an injury history to consider. Andy Reid has already shown that he’ll cut bait if he doesn’t think the guy can get the job done.
The problem for Sanchez is that Rex Ryan isn’t going to want to keep doing that. Sanchez was supposed to take that final step this year. Has it happened? If the Jets miss the playoffs (which could easily happen at this point) then it falls on Ryan and Sanchez. I doubt Rex Ryan (the media darling) is going to be let go, so Sanchez will get the blame. His stock is way down right now and the Jets may think another big trade is in order so they can get one of those Big 3 QBs.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 11:21 AM CST up reply actions
Samuel will likely be released, DRC is a FA after this year, Djax is, Young, etc
They will be able to save cap and keep Vick
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:24 AM CST up reply actions
Yes, but it won't be the "Dream Team" without those star players coming back.
If that’s the case, then is Vick the best investment? Or is it grabbing a rookie QB to move to the future with?
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
Likely Vick if Reid is back
Toss up if they go in a new direction
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
You are probably right.
But, like I said in the post, these are all potential problems to consider.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 11:29 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah I can see what you mean
I just don’t see it happening with it being Philly and if Reid is back, he will have to play for a serious play off push
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:30 AM CST up reply actions
I don't think Kolb has failed yet
He was banged up a lot this year. They sunk a lot of money in him. He’ll be back. Also, I think we need to explore the option to trade Cassel to one of those teams desperately seeking a QB, thus eliminating them from the race.
What makes you think anyone would want Cassel? Other teams see the same things we do.
Seattle possibly, because of Carrol, but I can’t see them giving up much of anything for him. And honestly, I’d rather just keep him on the team as a backup than trade him for a late-round pick.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
He's cheaper to let go of right now that he ever will be, due to how his contract is structured.
He gets more expensive in 2012 and 2013. If they’re going to cut him, it’ll be now. If they’re going to keep him, he’ll be starting since he gets more expensive.
Don’t want a backup who’s getting more expensive over the next two years. Even though we have miles of head room for the cap, it’s just kind of bad business.
I think he’d be a great backup to have, but from a front office perspective I don’t know that they would.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I didn't think about the contract, that's a good point
Unless he’s willing to restructure, that’s probably what will happen.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I see a Pro Bowl QB
That had piss poor play calling and a week O line. If Charles played this year and only had 500 yards rushing, you would say the problem is the O line. People have become emotional because we are losing and they put the blame on Cassel. Look at Chris Johnson this year, everybody said he doesn’t run hard anymore, this week he ran for a 190 yards.
When there is a problem you have to figure out how to fix it. That is what coaches do.
If a coach can’t do that we need to get another coach.
Funny how most NFL QBs look better when the run game is clicking and O-Line is pass blocking well.
We need a QB who can make those around him better. We need a QB who is a playmaker. We need a QB who the rest of the team will want to follow.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Were the Cards any better with Kolb instead of Anderson?
Not that I could see. In fact, they played better with Skelton than either of those other two. That requires some serious consideration if you’re going to continue to pay the guy.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
by citadelchief on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
This is the easiest draft in a long time
QB in the 1st, Offensive line in the 2nd and 3rd, then defensive depth the rest of the way.
Throw in a TE there and I'm okay with it.
Maybe a UDFA or late round HB.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
^ This
Our defense has shown it can be legit with who we have, even without Berry and with a couple of younger rooks playing significant snaps.
Throw Berry in there and continue Houston’s progression as it’s been going and we’re set on D for the most part.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
I disagree....1 more star ILB...you know who....then I think we are set
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 30, 2011 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
It’d be nice to have, but with the offense as bad as it is the pick needs to be used on a QB or OL.
"Hater" is a term used by weak-minded people in the face of legitimate criticism.
...
QB yes…..OL….in the 2nd…nothing wrong with the 2nd to replace Richardson
sucks...we're not getting Luck
Team Berry
Team Burfict or Team Te'O
...if I cant have the next Ray Lewis...ill settle for the next Junior Seau.
Le’ron McClain might be to Christian Okoye what Tamba Hali is to Derrick Thomas.
by MasterBlaster7 on Nov 30, 2011 9:31 AM CST up reply actions
Yeah if we can't get a franchise QB or LT Kalil, trade down for a superstar ILB
And take RT in the 2nd and maybe OG in the 3rd could be pretty tempting.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
In a trade down that would be a great pick
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
yeah, it still leaves RT as an issue
but, the interior line would be SET, and they could roll with B Rich/Mims for another year if they had to
or
look for a RT in the 2nd /3rd round
Any idea what the FA market looks like for RT?
Could that be a stop gap solution for us?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
Hire me on as assistant GM, Pioli
Together, we can overthrow the Emperor and rule the galaxy.
It is…your destiny!
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
You can't get a starting LT in the second round.
You could get a starting RT in the second round.
Easiet Pick-Up...Grab Jamarcus Russell for peanuts...
by Slim with the Tilted Brim on Nov 30, 2011 8:28 AM CST reply actions
Not to mention the lake full of purple we'd have to procure.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
QB isnt the biggest need anyway
We need an SILB. Matt Cassel is worth another shot on a healthy Chiefs team with a competent OC and stacked DEF. The play action will be unstoppable next yr with Charles, the Killa B’s, and Moeaki and that’s when Cassel is at his best. If he doesn’t pan out nxt year, we will already be great in every other position so it will be easy to trade up for a franchise QB next draft.
by JC25FoMVP on Nov 30, 2011 8:29 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I think you’re forgetting the fact that Captain Checkdown Cassel is incapable of stretching the field and will immediately dump it off to our RB for a short gain.
Cassel was given his chance and is not the answer for QB. When you have QB’s like Barkley, Luck and RG3 coming out which could potentially happen this year. You can’t pass on that. Cassel has reached his ceiling. We’ve seen what he can do. There’s a reason he was a backup at USC and a backup at NE. He’s not starter material. If he wants to restructure his contract, I’d love for him to be our backup QB.
Sounds reasonable
but most drafts don’t have a true franchise QB available. If there’s a QB in this draft that the really like, they need to get him (other than Luck of course). The good thing is that our team needs aren’t at ‘premier’ positions, other than QB. We can get a very good ILB & RT in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
Luck/RGIII in the first
Hightower in the second
Wagner in the third?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:10 AM CST up reply actions
Belcher > Cassel
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
The problem with this is.
That Cassel is an average QB, if we roll with him next year and he does like last year.Then we’re stuck with him, because everyone will think he’s a great QB. I’m done with the team covering for Cassel. I want a QB that can excell when the rest of the team is down. Cassel is not the answer.
I don't have a catchy, catch phrase.
Gotta have a QB that can win the game in today's NFL
Cassel can not, he might be able NOT to lose it, but he wont win them when the running game is not taking 8 guys out of the passing plays
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Cassel can't win, when Haley calls run, run, pass.
There isn’t a top offense that is winning that way.
Maybe if the run, run part
Wasn’t 1 yd gain, 0 yd gain and now it’s 3rd and 9…every time. Those are not successful situations, especially for a QB of #7’s caliber.
Haley hasn't called plays for awhile
If you are going to hate on a guy, stick with the times
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 2:35 PM CST up reply actions
I think anyone who's shown greatness in 2 seasons as a starter
deserves another chance if Bill Muir is his offensive coordinator. Its really not worth it this year. If we aren’t getting Luck then we don’t need a QB
Mallet
ok, so now all of you short-sighted folks that didn’t wanna ‘Suck for Luck’ now see why we were screaming this at 0-3. We screwed the pooch! However, lucky for everyone on this board, I’ve found the perfect solution:
Trade Matt Cassel and a 2nd round pick back to New England for Ryan Mallet. He’s better than any of these QB’s.
In Todd We Trust!
Heh- only new England and KC would do that trade
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Nov 30, 2011 8:43 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Actually I kinda sorta like that idea
Get Kalil/Martin in the first, Mallet who has a ton of talent, with our second…
Could you imagine AP/world after KC trades yet ANOTHER 2nd round pick for a NE back up?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:11 AM CST up reply actions
Just saying a top LT prospect in the first
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 1, 2011 11:58 PM CST up reply actions
I agree that Kalil looks to be a great pick
but almost every team will probably have him on their board.
Mallet can't win in KC
He is a pocket passer, Our O line can’t protect the QB, This is Cassel problem too, The defense knows where Cassel is most of the time.
For a pocket passer
Cassel sure is uncomfortable in the pocket
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 30, 2011 10:56 PM CST up reply actions
trenches
BS, O-line, O-line, D-line. the game is won in the trenches, if your lines rule, you do. ANY QB can pass behind them, and any RB can get through them. Draft a tackle, guard, nose tackle/d-end, in or around that order, for the next three years. pick up extra positions in the later rounds or free agency. The chiefs used to have the best O-line in football with two of them presently up for the HOF, THIS YEAR! One in front of Palko right now, another we CUT and is now going to the playoffs in NE. Teams were scared they were going to be run over, and they were. Ask Trent Green if he really was that good, or if it was his O-line. BTW, if you have an O-line that good, it improves your Defense beacuse guess who has to practice across from them every day? Thanks for letting me vent, see ya in the sports pages.
by jd2009 on Nov 30, 2011 8:40 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
U sound like Masons and I last years draft: Beef!
It’s either 1 direction or the other
Trade up for a QB
Upgrade the beef
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Nov 30, 2011 8:45 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Only reason i dont like trading up is because we are not just a QB away
we need depth at many positions and that is what those picks can help with. So i say stand pat or trade back if what you want isn’t there.
How DARE you bring logic and insight into a QBOTF thread!
CASSEL IS THE PROBLEM WHARGHARBLE!!!! RAAAAAAGE!
Most voted for beefing up the oline because we know that is the biggest problem with our offense at this time. Get a monster line and I could be a pro bowl QB.
"In my experience, there is no such thing as luck."
"It's not always going to be pretty; and that's alright..."
then we do what we shoulda done
a long time ago. get a dominant OT…
Just like novocaine. give it time; always works..
The greater the fall, the grander the ascention..
Trade Cassel, a jug of gatorade, and BRich For...
someone like Vince Young. Work on building the pieces around Young/Orton in the draft. Band-aid with Young/Orton until Stanzi is ready to put his big-boy pants on. See what Stanzi has and if we’re still having this conversation in a year or two, at least we have built the team to succeed when we find the right QBOTF.
Just my two pennies…and pennies are pretty worthless.
Vince Young's psyche is to fragile
one “throw the effing ball Vince” or “f you vince” from Haley and he checks out.
How do you think being traded for Vince Young would make the jug of gatorade feel?
He’s all, “Ahhhhhhhhh Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhh……….”
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
He has the biggest forehead in the world for someone not bald.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
Let's keep it family friendly from now on
No more pictures of what happened that night!
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:12 AM CST up reply actions
This a gay photo...Not that there's anything worng with that.
by Slim with the Tilted Brim on Nov 30, 2011 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
As long as its pg-13
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
And yet he's adorned with a cross, now I don't know what to think.
Someone tell me what to think.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Could be. Covering all bases just in case?
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
You can get a good O-Lineman in the 2-3 rounds
It’s rare to get a franchinse QB in those rounds. If one is available and I would say Luck, Barkley, Jones, or RG3 then you have to take them.
With that said I don’t think all of those teams will be drafting ahead of us either. Indi is the only one guaranteed ahead of us with the #1 pick.
Miami is 3-8 – I could see how it plays out with Moore, he’s been playing decent but they could
Cleveland is 4-7 – Have Colt McCoy so the chance they pick a QB is low.
Jacksonville is 3-8 – 1st rounder on Gabbert last year so they won’t
San Diego is 4-7 – they have cry baby so unless something crazy happens they won’t
Philly is 4-7 – they have Vick and Young so I highly doubt they do
Washington is 4-7 – yeah, they should pick a QB
Minnesota is 2-9 – used 1st rounder on Ponder last year so they won’t
Tampa is 4-7 – They have freeman and its to soon to give up on him
Carolina is 3-8 – no way they take one with Newton
Miami still plays Oakland, Philly, Buffalo, NE & Jets and they are 3-2 in their last five so they could win one more of those and correct me if I am wrong but since they beat us we would be ahead of them right or does it go purely by strength of schedule.
Washington has the Jets, NE, Giants, Minn & Philly. They could easily win 1 more there even if its just Minn or steal one from Philly
Cleveland still has Balt, Pitt, Ariz, Baltimore and Pitt. If they win another it would be Ariz but that’s tough. Either way I don’t know if they would give up on Colt yet.
We have Chicago, NY, Green Bay, Oakland or Denver so I don’t expect us to win another but if we do it will be one of the divisional games.
So it looks like 1-2 QB’s could be gone before we draft, probably Luck and either RG3 or Barkley and if it comes down to Landry or RG3/Barkley I would draft either. I think out of those 4 QB’s one will still be there when we draft and I think we are going to be a top 5-6 pick.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
It has probably been said already
but, my take:
IF you can get Luck, RGIII or Barkley… do it.
IF not… take Kalil, Martin or maybe Reiff
IF they aren’t there… David DeCastro, LG
It’s time to take a franchise QB… forget about the 2nd/3rd tier guys
So, if one of the top 3 aren’t available… build the OL, roll with Cassel/Stanzi for another year
I like that with a caveat
If you can’t get Luck / RG3 / Barkley / Kalil
Trade down and get a LT, or if one of the really good ILB prospects (Te’o, Hightower) is available – take him and get an RT in the 2nd. And hope beyond hope that Cassel or Stanzi or Orton (if he even wants to come back to KC) can somehow get it done.
The extra picks from trading down can go to good interior O Line, or a really good TE or both depending on what all is gained from trading down.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I'm ALWAYS in favor of a trade down
unless a “franchise” LT/QB is sitting there
I think ILB is a “nice to have” upgrade at this point, but I’d be happy with one.
NT, S depth, OG/C depth and a 2nd TE are CERTAIN needs that can be addressed with mid-round picks… so the more, the better!
Please, no Barkley
He just looks like a pro disaster to me. Jones has issues, but they don’t include arm strength or accuracy so he’d be my target after Luck/RG3. I agree with taking an OT early, but personally I’d rather trade back a bit & take one of the 3 big ILBs, then grab a RT & S in the 2nd.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I don't think he will be a disaster
Barkley that is, I think he will be a solid but underwelming top 10 pick
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:18 AM CST up reply actions
Along the lines of Sanchez honestly
I do not like to use that comparison though, just too easy with the USC QB links
I would take a Matt Ryan in the top 10 anyday
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:20 AM CST up reply actions
Cassel=Flacco
In all honesty, they’re pretty much the same guy, especially as far as being maddeningly inconsistent.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
yeah, I hear ya
Cassel is probably a better game manager, Flacco has a better deep-ball
that’s been my point all along, though… if it’s not a MAJOR upgrade over Cassel/Stanzi… don’t bother drafting a QB
That's why I don't like Barkley I don't see a huge upgrade
We will see what Flacco really has in the upcoming years if the offense continues to change to a pass first offense
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:29 AM CST up reply actions
Yeeeesh, in that case, no thanks.
Top 10 guys have to be homeruns, not saying they always are, but should be.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
What about the idea above?
A 2nd round pick for Mallet?(no idea what his value is anyhow)
If we are out of the Luck/RGIII race, it would allow us to get Kalil/Martin in the first, talented QB in the second, still have picks to fill holes in the Oline/TE/ILB/Depth
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:19 AM CST up reply actions
I like Mallet fairly well
but, I doubt he’s available… and he was just drafted in the 3rd round, and hasn’t played yet…
so, a 2nd (or a 2nd and Cassel) would be overpaying, IMHO
As I said I don't know his value and I doubt the Pats would take Cassel's contract anyways
However at the point if Luck/RGIII were gone, we wouldnt get a better prospect in the 2nd for that pick
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:28 AM CST up reply actions
If the top 3 arent there...
You go with either OT reily reiff or id be very happy with ILBs Burfict or Te’o. Its a need position and both are beast run stoppers and can pass rush. This solidifies our linebacking core and i kinda feel that reiff or any lineman is a reach at where we’ll be picking. I agree that tackle is a need but im curious to see what mims does. Saw him at training camp pancake glenn dorsey 3 times and i think he has a ton of upside. They also need a replacement for ryan lilja. And besides the top 3 what about case keenum in the 4th? Small school guy with a big time arm, i think the chiefs need a change of pace from the possession quaterbacks weve had to someone that can throw it around
by tyson_jackson who? on Nov 30, 2011 9:34 AM CST reply actions
Reiff likely returns to Iowa, Te'o could return as well
Burfict is not worth that high of a pick with his inconsistent play and still not getting himself under control
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:36 AM CST up reply actions
I had hopes for the guy especially with how the season was going
We would likely have a midround pick, and Burfict hasn’t done anything to prove he is worth a high pick. Even with the officials ‘watching for him and making bogas calls’ things havn’t changed
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:39 AM CST up reply actions
Really? For poor play, or being out of control?
He would be a great pick if he falls to the 2nd round. Guys like Berry, Hali & DJ would keep him in line.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
He was benched in the game against Cal for being out of control
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
Cool, I hope it hurts his stock
Though I wouldn’t mind the guy in your sig either.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
agreed
I’d LOVE a guy like Burfict in the 3rd-ish… similar to how Brandon Spikes fell to the Pats.
and Ta’amu would be a good choice for KC in the 2nd round, giving them a guy that could play NT or DE
Or even late in the 1st on Ta'amu
If we don’t get our QB I really hope we trade back for an extra pick or two in the 2nd & 3rd. It’s a deep draft in the positions that we need the most, so it’s a good year to stockpile.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
I don't think he would be a good high pick
Although I could see a team like the Texans possibly going after him in the late first due to their 1 gap scheme
He has not been impressive at all when asked to 2 gap, I do like him as a DE in our scheme though, just not NT
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:51 AM CST up reply actions
I think he could do both
but, he’s not the proto-typical NT.
I am hopeful Powe is that guy, and a guy like Ta’amu could play the Amon Gordon/ Shaun Smith role pretty well
Ta'amu needs work to become an NT in our scheme
Hand technique and leverage have been bad this year, however he does have nice lateral quickness quite an enigma
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:57 AM CST up reply actions
Very easily
A lot of people see a big body and expect a instant NT out of him, that will not be the case. He might be best in a 4-3 or a 1 gap scheme, however if he was in Dorsey’s spot with more 1 on 1s with an actual NT in Gregg and hopefully Powe he will succeed IMO
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 9:59 AM CST up reply actions
I think Romeo really likes those versatile guys
someone that he can move around and bring in on different packages
I agree
I have high hopes for Powe at NT, adding someone like Ta’amu who could give us a Dline like the Ravens of basically 2 NTs always on the strong side of the offense would make this defense incredible
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:04 AM CST up reply actions
somethin like:
1st: Manti Te’o,ILB
2nd: Ta’amu,DE
3rd: Kyle wilson, RB
4th: Case Keenum,QB
And an O-linemen somewhere else, dont really see any good guards or tackles past the 2nd round
by tyson_jackson who? on Nov 30, 2011 10:02 AM CST up reply actions
I would still go Oline in the first if no QB
TE/ILB in the third
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:05 AM CST up reply actions
maybe its cause im an MU fan
but i think a guy like michael egnew or tj moe in the 5,6,7 would be a nice fit. We obviously need TE depth and it never hurts to have 4 WR that can catch but wouldnt waste a high pick on it
by tyson_jackson who? on Nov 30, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Not sure the MU TE fits what Pioli/Haley would want
Too 1 dimensional.
Its not a wasted pick IMO, if they can both block and also catch then it gives you basically 7 Olinemen on running plays out of a 2 WR/2TE set, and 5 WRs out of that same set on passing plays.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:11 AM CST up reply actions
Just a thought,
back to ta’amu though, i like him especially if you can deal dorsey to a 4-3 team and maybe get a 2nd probably a 3rd. Fix the oline with the first and go DE and ILB with the next too then best available for the rest
by tyson_jackson who? on Nov 30, 2011 10:16 AM CST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind that draft
Not sure what SILB prospect could be there in the 3rd however
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:18 AM CST up reply actions
Its unlikely but,
if a guy like burfict keeps up the character issues he could fall to the 3rd alot like justin houston
by tyson_jackson who? on Nov 30, 2011 10:20 AM CST up reply actions
I doubt that
I can still see a team taking him in the first like the Eagles who need LB help badly, you are right there are always prospects dropping, SILB’s usually drop the most
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:21 AM CST up reply actions
Ravens could take a flyer on him and let him learn behind Ray before he retires
A lot like Jimmy Smith that might be the best place for him to land, as well as them getting a fantastic prospect
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:23 AM CST up reply actions
Had that thought too
Moe is more intriguing of the two. At this point, I think KC is loaded at WR though. Egnew is too much like Coffman and Rucker and they haven’t exactly torn up the NFL. If Pioli wanted that style of TE, we’d have one of them on roster now.
Let's not forget...We have a legitimate shot at the playoffs.
According to our fearless leader…
by Slim with the Tilted Brim on Nov 30, 2011 9:56 AM CST reply actions
There's a problem with the "Build a team then get the QB" or "Build the team and get a mediocre QB" philosophies
I know people keep throwing around that we need to build a team first and worry about a QB later or bring in a mediocre QB and we can Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson it. Well, that doesn’t happen very often (twice in around 25 years) and is harder to build.
A franchise QB, I’m talking about the P. Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Marino, and all the rest can make your team a contender. Take Brees, Rodgers, Brady, or Manning off any of their teams and what do you have? You have teams that won’t win the Super Bowl, go very far in the playoffs or as in Indi not win a game. Does anyone doubt that with Manning the Colts would have been better this year or if you take Rodgers off that team that they would be undefeated? A true franchise QB elevates your team and its difficult to win a SB without one. Take the left tackle off any of those teams and they still have a chance.
If you have an opportunity to get a true franchise QB you have to take it. It may bust and that sucks but you have to take the chance if its there. Imagine the Chiefs with Marino or Elway through the 80’s early 90’s. The course of our team would have been drastically different.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
agreed.
plug in a Rogers/Brees/Brady on this team, even with the injuries…
I think the Chiefs make the playoffs
Without a doubt
That’s how good those guys are.
It is more important than any 2 positions combined on offense IMO.
I’d take Aaron Rodgers over Joe Thomas and Adrian Peterson any day.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
by MNchiefsfan on Nov 30, 2011 11:03 PM CST up reply actions
i agree -
But i disagree with the theme of this thread page – why does the Chiefs have to pick either /or to improve this team this year? Helolo how about some free agents? We’re sitting on all this cap space to resign players who look like crap this year, because this team has zero depth. Can this Chiefs fan just hit the reset button on this year?
Yeah, easier to get other players through free agency though
Harder to get a true top flight QB. It’s happened as Willie B points out in the post below but its much more rare.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
if you replace them with Palkos yes if you replace them with midlevel talent they would still make the playoffs
Those types of Qbs are even rarer then winning with Dilfer . The draft is a crapshoot and if you waste too much time focusing on one player then you are gonna suck for a long time .
Brees and Favre are not on there original teams
Manning was the #1
Rodgers was a luxury pick as the packers had Favre
Marino was the 6th Qb taken in the first rd
Building your team and taking advantage of opportunities should they arise is the way to go. Reaching is how you end up with a Sanchez .
The Colts would be better with a capable QB ANY capable QB and no the Packers would not be undefeated but it doesnt mean the would suck either . With as many weapons as they have they would still be a good team
by Willie Beamon on Nov 30, 2011 10:28 AM CST up reply actions
Weapons do not matter with Palko
Couldn’t resist
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:29 AM CST up reply actions
Maybe a submachine gun, where he could just kill the other team.
Then he’d probably only throw 2 INT’s per game or so.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Wouldn't doubt that
Not like he was trying to avoid the defenders in the Pitt game
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
I agree with a lot of what you say
I am just saying that if you believe someone is going to be a franchise QB then you have to take a chance on them. If it’s iffy then you end up with a Sanchez.
You are right there are other ways to get a great QB, trades and free agency but those don’t happen that often. I was talking about the draft because I don’t see a team willing to trade anyone or release anyone I see as a franchise QB this offseason and we will have a high pick.
Rodgers was kind of a luxury pick, that team had a lot of needs if I remember but Rodgers dropped in the draft and they knew Favre would be gone soon. He was to good to pass up where they got him.
Marino was the 6th QB taken but out of those 6, 3 turned out to be hall of famers and Tony Eason led his team to a SB.
I agree, we need to take advantage of opportunities. Drafting this high in a QB heavy class is a great opportunity that we have to take advantage of. It may fail but it may be what sets our team up for 15 years. Tackles, defensive players and all that can be had in later rounds or free agency but it is rare to do that with a QB.
Insert witty yet thought provoking phrase here.
They were all 1st round picks except Favre and he was taken #33 overall.
It is rare that the successful QBs are found in round #5 or lower. Yeah Tom Brady was a #6 but try and name some more recent franchise Qbs found later than 4th round.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
With THIS KC team...
I would push for a trade for a veteran QB before i turned the reins over to a rookie…WE NEED AN INSTANT LEADER ON OFFENSE.
IMO the Colts cannot afford to draft a QB at #1,and keep Manning. Its not just because they dont want to invest that much money into the QB position…its because they have WAAAAY too many other needs to address. If Manning recovers from this injury, they could get multiple draft picks/players for him, they would also save money by trading his 100+ million dollar contract vs Lucks 30 million dollar rookie contract…
The reason i would push for the trade is because we have some very good talent here NOW… I dont think its a good idea to wait and groom a Rookie QB that may or may not be any better than what we have now…The Colts are in a prime position to get their QB of the future and also pick up much needed high draft picks/players and save money…
If they pick Luck, and keep Manning, they are picking a player that cannot help them win for the next 2-3 years or until Manning hangs it up..
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
However a good young QB with JC, and our defense
Would be a scary team. Like with Cassel, the defenses will focus 8 men on Charles, leading to 1 on 1 match ups with the Killer Bs and easy throws
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:49 AM CST up reply actions
the problem with that
is that when it really mattered, Cassel could not make them pay when it counted…he has lost to EVERY team that had a winning record that he faced in KC…but, then again, so has Haley…
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
If we go QB early
Luck or RGIII would both be an instant upgrade to Cassel IMO. With Luck you know what you are getting right off the bat, RGIII is a little more complicated but with his arm and also the ability to work the pocket to create extra time they could both start and be an upgrade.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
How soon we forget...
he has lost to EVERY team that had a winning record that he faced in KC…but, then again, so has Haley…
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2011/11/27/2589578/chiefs-vs-steelers-2009
And we also beat the Chargers in week one and they ended up with a 9 – 7 record for the year.
Pitt went 9-7 and missed the playoffs.....
SD was 0-0 when we played them…..and missed the playoffs…
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
I dont want a scarey team
I want a Super Bowl team…a young rookie QB may turn out to be shit in the NFL…I want a proven NFL QB
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
So pretty much give up the future for Manning who could possibly only play 1 snap to a max of like 3 years?
Yeah that’s smart. Give up another first and get Luck.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
nobody said give up the future
and ….this all hinges upon Manning passing his physical…Luck could play one snap and never play again..its football..
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Luck has not had multiple surgeries on his neck
Yes it is future, pass on a rookie who could be on the team 10+ years leading them to play off pushes yearly, or old injured Manning
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
he wasnt exactly PROVEN either
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Most PROVEN thing about Manning is his uncertainty
1 bad hit and he is done, is that worth a first round pick to you?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:00 AM CST up reply actions
They are planning on playing Manning THIS YEAR if possible
even with the losing record…why do you think that is??
its to prove he is healthy enough next yr…its to prove to the rest of the league he is healthy enough too……
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
He won't play
Even if he did, thats best for us, maybe he can win them some games
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:06 AM CST up reply actions
They never placed him on IR this year
and i just heard last night that he will start practicing in December….so. we will see
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Your point was rookies
not proven anything. Besides, #7 had NFL starting experience. So technically, he was more proven than any rookie.
Wow..
nit picking……Cassel had a good “season”…Manning has had a HOF “career”….
The point everyone is missing is this…
It takes time for a rookie to develop, usually at least 3 yrs before he is fully ready to lead his team to a Championship….now, where will THIS CHIEFS team be in 3 yrs?..who will still be here? will we miss the window?
Bringing in a PROVEN veteran leader, like Manning, makes us contenders RIGHT AWAY…..
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Point you are missing is most teams that are picking high have a TON of holes
This team does not have a ton of huge holes.
OC’s are finding ways to get young QBs in the game sooner and speed up their learning.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:11 AM CST up reply actions
but are they contending for a championship?...
NO
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Who?
Flacco/Sanchez have both made huge pushes, Ryan has been great, same can be said about Freeman
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:13 AM CST up reply actions
None of those guys have won ANYTHING
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
You didn't say WON championships
You said CONTEND.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:16 AM CST up reply actions
dude...
my 3rd comment said
“I dont want a scarey team
I want a Super Bowl team…a young rookie QB may turn out to be shit in the NFL…I want a proven NFL QB”
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Yet the one I replied to says contend not won
Proven.. like Marino was? He didn’t win a championship, he must suck too
Proven.. like Marino was? He didn’t win a championship, he must suck tooAs I said the only thing Manning has proven now is that he does not have long in the NFL, age and neck.
Proven.. like Marino was? He didn’t win a championship, he must suck tooAs I said the only thing Manning has proven now is that he does not have long in the NFL, age and neck.But hey lets give away a possible future QB for a few year loaner and be in the same exact situation when the core of the team is almost passed its prime..
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:23 AM CST up reply actions
No idea why that happened...
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
So lets pass up a guy who could...
lead us to a couple Super Bowls in his last few years….for a rookie who has proved exactly NOTHING in the NFL….?
I think you missed the part in my post that said…IF MANNING IS HEALTHY AND CAN PASS A PHYSICAL…
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Healthy for 1 day to pass a physical
Could be done after the first snap or in a few years.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 AM CST up reply actions
yeah
and Luck could break his throwing arm in Pre-season….its football, so that arguement means nothing….
IF he is healthy(ill say it again)…i would rather have Manning than Luck, or any other unproven rookie….even if its only for 3-4 years…
Ive watched this team since the early 80s…I want a Championship…nothing else
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
At least a 1st round pick(which will be high this year)
For a few years is NOT how you build a team.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:44 AM CST up reply actions
except for a QB
and help on the lines…this team is already built!!!
running game, WRs, great secondary
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
No the team is not built
There are still some holes that do need work
This team is not in the same of the Pats where they can just replenish
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 2:36 PM CST up reply actions
and Manning has only won 1
giving up multiple picks to get him wouldnt be smart. getting him doesnt guarantee us a SB run especially when without an OL in front of him to block he would be running for his life
Our OL would look much better with Manning
Teams simply don’t blitz Manning, because he kills them for doing so. Give him Charles, Moeaki, Bowe, Breaston & Baldwin & our OL will looks like a collection of all-pros.
Predictions:
I'm going to stop predicting positive things
And those teams are rebuilding
after 3 yrs under Haley, we should NOT be still rebuilding….we need the most important piece….a QB to LEAD the team…
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Again we don't have the huge holes most teams do when they are picking high and pick a QB
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:15 AM CST up reply actions
so again,
we would be in the same situation…the most important position on the team will be a weak link because we are starting a Rookie…
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Yeah cause obviously you missed the points above
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:26 AM CST up reply actions
jeeez..
they are not peyton friggin manning either
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
I understand
I’m not debating that there are any rookies better than Manning. I’m just debating your point that rookies cannot get it done. Manning argument aside, rookies, especially this year, have proven more effective than KC’s current situation.
Actually
Manning has not shown himself to be a proven vetran leader. He demands 100% of the practice snaps when he is healthy, and he has a record of not mentoring the QB waiting in the wings. A better example would have been someone like Brees, Rodgers, or Brady.
lol
wow….i choose Manning because of the situation in Indy….Brees , Rodgers, and Brady are not available….Manning may not be either, but, i can see it happening…there is too much value for him IF he recovers fully
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
#7 was brought in as a ready to go Young Starter.
It was envisioned that he hold the fort as we developed a team that had many many holes. His contract was front loaded for a reason.The team has fewer holes now. The time is better to bring in front line prospect now than any time in the past 10 years. We have a few needs and QB is the most glaring.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Well stated....
I agree whole heartedly! I think they may think they have a year left though with Matt.
i think Orton will outplay Cassel...easily
if he gets up to speed by the end of the year, the chiefs will be more inclined to try and re sign him than to retain Cassel.. money is not the issue here, lack of production is….I feel they would rather groom a rookie under Orton than under Cassel….thats IF they can get Orton to sign for next yr
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
Everyone's QB happy
But the fact is that very few rookie QB’s come in and make an immediate impact. Yeah, some have the potential, but it takes a veteran to consistently come in and win. I say we use the remainder of the season for an evaluation on Orton and draft a beefy runningback or some defense 1st round. There are so many talented QB’s in this upcoming draft that there will still be very skilled rookies in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I’d love to see KC take CB Tyrann Mathieu or RBs Richardson/Lattimore 1st round. Then beef up our off/def lines post 1st round.
As far as drafting a QB is concerned
I really like Brandon Weeden from OSU. He’s experienced, mature, and makes good decisions with the ball. On the opposite end of the spectrum, Colin Klein from K-State would make a good large, running QB. This league will see more and more of that in the upcoming years and Klein could make a difference once we get our ground game back in 2012.
Weeden reminds me of Chris Weinke. He would need time to develop into an NFL QB and he's already 28, so 1 year younger than Orton and Cassel
Pass. We already have a QB on the roster that needs developing (Stanzi)
No thanks on Mathieu, not first round talent, sick of small DBs who can get abused by tall WRs and good QBs
Lattimore is not coming out, Richardson may stay, no value in a 1st round RB anymore unless they are AP. No first round NT, not sure if there is a 1st round DE
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 11:46 AM CST up reply actions
Have you watched LSU play this year?
With Berry, Lewis, Flowers and Mathieu in the secondary we could shut down so many opposing pass offenses, not to mention the fact that he’s a beast on returns.
Yes I have watched a lot of LSU
The big difference is that Mathieu is able to abuse WRs beyond 5 yards, that is how he stays in the plays. It will not work in the NFL, nor will he.
We need 3+ returns? Where did Carr go?
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 2:38 PM CST up reply actions
On the contrary, young/rookie QB's have actually been on a roll lately.
Matt Ryan-Playoffs first year
Joe Flacco-Playoffs first year
Mark Sanchez-Playoffs first year
Andy Dalton-Probable playoffs first year
My point here is that under the right circumstances a young QB can be succesful, there just has to be a decent team around them. The Chiefs, I believe, could easily be one of those teams that has the right parts, in the right places, to make a rook shine.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Dalton's the only rookie on this list
and he’s just been a manager. Look at Cam Newton. He’s an amazing talent and puts up good fantasy numbers, but in reality football his team still has a losing record. So many analysts were high on Gabbert last year and he hasn’t done much. It takes a full season or two for any rookie QB to make a consistent impact on offense.
Each of those guys were rookies the years they went to the playoffs, and I was going off of this..
But the fact is that very few rookie QB’s come in and make an immediate impact.
Regardless of what year they’re rookies, my point is that in the last 5 or so odd years, starting a rookie QB isn’t as sketchy as it might have seemed in years past.
Again, if they have the right supporting cast around them, decent O-line, weapons at the skill positions, and a defense that doesn’t leak like a sieve.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
agreed
and KC does have most of the pieces needed to support a young QB.
that being said, I predict that, even if they take a QB in the 1st… Cassel will likely be the starter day one, and the rookie will have a chance to develop for at least part of the season, if not a whole year
Unfortunately, and assuming we go QB, I think you'd be right
I think the old theory of having to sit young QB’s is just that….old, shallow and pedantic. The only reason I could see this being necessary is so we don’t “break” the kid, or “throw him to the wolves”, thus destroying his confidence.
Then again, if they can’t take the heat from the jump, are they the right person for the job anyway?
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
It's definitely not old, shallow and pedantic.
Bringing in a kid early works when everything is running smoothly. If we still had Weis this year, and were going to have him next year as well and the offense was working like a well oiled machine because of it – it would be a fantastic situation to bring in a rookie to immediately start.
Our offense can’t even find an identity. I can just about guarantee we’ll have another OC next year, and Muir can’t be anything more than a stopgap for continuity’s sake. So we’ll be bringing in OC #5 in 4 years. That’s an offense with no identity – a pretty terrible position to bring in a rookie and make him start.
Some teams are in a good position to do that. The Pats are a fantastic situation, for example. Brady went down, Cassel still came in and put up some 400+ yard games and won 11 that year. I have no doubt that Mallet could step in when needed and the Pats will still be right there in the playoffs. That’s a great situation for young QB’s.
But here we have an offense that’s been at the bottom of the pile a few years in a row in passing. We’ve only just now got more than one receiving threat at WR, and even the simple act of getting play calls in on time slows things down and tosses a monkeywrench into this offense. It’s a terrible situation to bring in a rookie unless he’s one of those once-in-a-generation talents.
Going around saying that just because it’s worked a couple of times recently means it’s always going to work is pretty short sighted. It would take a pretty monumentally great QB prospect to come in and succeed here next year. Now if we get a good OC next year, develop an identity through 2012, then it could be a great chance for someone to step in in 2013.
But nobody wants to look that far ahead or admit that that may be the tough medicine we have to take to cure the playoff loss disease we’ve been afflicted with.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Agreed
But we can’t let that situation also create short-sightedness and keep the organization from moving the timeline along more quickly. What I am saying, is all things being true and recognized, why not bring in a rookie this year (with a very strong rookie class), let him learn under the new OC (they’re both new anyway) and by year two, they’re on one page?
I think this is the route to ultimately take. Just trying to find another angle here.
That's pretty much what I was just saying
If you bring in a rookie, unless he’s a once in a generation talent, he’s likely not going to be set up to succeed if he starts next season. But if we bring in a good OC (and keep a dedicated QB coach) to work with him all year, 2013 could be a very good situation.
Either way you slice it, unless we get Luck or Manning, next year is a temporary stopover on the way to wherever we’re going.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Yes, but those squads have a decent mentor in place
Are we sure we’d want our new kid learning from Cassel..or…(gulp)….Palko?
I’m not so sure that in our exact situation just throwing the kid on the bar-b is a bad thing.
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Youngster would be learning as much or more from QB coach and OC than the QB in front of him.
Plus getting practice reps for some timing instead of having to make those mistakes on the field, then get crucified for the inevitable miscues.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
For our sake, I hope to shit you're right
Let’s leave Cassel to teaching the kid how to put on hats…er..um..
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Heh no kidding.
Well, I hope I’m right as long as we land a good OC and keep him here.
It’s the OC and QB coach (please let us keep SOME kind of consistency there guys, please? Pretty please?) that will let this offense establish some semblance of an identity, and result in there being an identity for a rookie to learn from.
For example – as much as I really want to see Stanzi on the field, and am excited by the prospect, I also understand that starting him right now is the equivalent of putting him on the field, shrugging and going, “Shit man, we don’t know either. Make something happen we guess.”
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
I would think you would want a rookie learning from Matt...
(Watching film) See this is what you don’t do. Why are you doing it Matt? I can’t help it! You can so learn. All joking aside though Matt is everything we want in a QB besides he can’t throw a deep pass very well and the reading the Defense he is a awkwardly slow at. Matt would be a good mentor I think.
If nothing else hopefully Matt could push the rookie
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 4:37 PM CST up reply actions
Hopefully he doesn't push him too hard.
The way our luck has been, the rookie would break a thumb or something.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
if Cassel, who has run this offense for 3 yrs now
cant make it happen, why do you think a rookie could be better….the o line is very very shakey as well…
other than QB, this team, next yr, when healthy, should be able to contend for a SuperBowl, NOT just make it to the playoffs…this is just MY opinion so…we need a quality proven veteran QB to LEAD…all is not lost if we do not draft the QBOF next yr…take advantage of the players we have NOW by bringing in a QB that is up to speed with the NFL…not a rookie trying to get his feet wet…the Chiefs are NOT in the beginning stages of rebuilding, they are in yr 3. The Qb that they THOUGHT would be our leader did not work out…you dont start over by bringing in a rookie QB…
Playoffs are a REAL possibility in 2010...just need few tweeks here and there.
I understand wanting a proven leader
Trust me, I do. I just think that this team and the franchise are ready for their own great QB. That player will never be found if we don’t make a move and draft one. I think this QB class is as good as any in recent memory.
Btw, there are a lot of young QBs out there better than #7. And I think the top 5 or 6 rookies this next season may also be.
True QBs need time to develop. So the sooner we start the better.
At the same time we can develop a NT,OT, DE, ILB, another interior lineman and depth. One good draft and good FA year (now) and one year of seasoning and we are good to go.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
Good post
People around here make it sound like acquiring a franchise quarterback is so easy and is available to any team who wants it.
I think the pricetag for both Luck and Manning will be too high and Barkley will go too high for us to nab him. Pioli and Haley HATE spread offenses and I highly doubt they have RGIII rated very high, so even if he was there, I think they would pass. Landry Jones is a definite “no.”
Our best bet is to draft a franchise LT in Matt Kalil or Jonathan Martin in the first, and try to grab a big run-stuffing ILB in the early 2nd in Don’ta Hightower or Manti Te’o. I think in the 3rd we need to draft a TE or a RT.
I’ve posted previously, but here is my first mock of the year:
1. Jonathan Martin – LT – Stanford
2. Don’ta Hightower – ILB – Alabama
3. Coby Fleener – TE – Stanford
Our best bet at this point is to stick with Cassel for another year and help build a roster. With the right supporting cast, we can still be a playoff team, albeit not a SB contender. The only only player who would make us a SB contender overnight would be Peyton Manning, and obviously his pricetag is going to be huge, and there is the injury and age concern.
We also need to replace Thomas Jones with another home-run threat at RB. Here’s my offseason wish list:
1) Draft a franchise LT, kick Albert inside to LG
2) Look for a RT in FA or later in the Draft
3) Draft a stud SILB, continue to develop young defensive talent
4) Bring in another RB that fits the ZBS to replace Thomas Jones, either through FA or mid-rounder in the Draft
5) Add another TE – the game is evolving to where you need 2 good TEs
6) Re-sign Le’Ron McClain — we have the money and would like to see him block for Charles
7) Re-sign Brandon Carr (Javier isn’t there yet, and I still like him at the star position)
8) Re-sign/franchise D-Bo (no need to elaborate here)
9) Continue to develop Stanzi and look for another QB in FA to replace Palko
10) Let Orton walk, take the comp pick
I think this team is on the cusp of something great. Many of the pieces are in place. We are a very young team that has been pounded with injuries and had the toughest schedule in the league. It will get better.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
by Nick Britt on Nov 30, 2011 12:26 PM CST reply actions 3 recs
Sorry for the novel
Don’t have the time to post as often, so my ideas get bottled up and released in bulk.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
No need to say sorry....
Anytime a person puts actual thought into a post I give a HT too. Much better than the HE SUCKS FIRE HIM FIRE HIM FIRE HIM>!
well done, actually
my only beef with it is that Fleener isn’t a blocker, from what I’ve read.
So, I think KC would opt for a TE that can block first, catch second…
other than that… dead on.
that being said...
I would continue your draft like this:
4) Isaiah Pead, RB
5) Trenton Robinson, FS
6) Ryan Broyles, WR (slot)
7) Philip Blake, C
With his numbers
there is no way that he can. It’s not like the guy is fragile, just a freak injury this year. Hell, a year or two back, he played the entire season with a broken shoulder blade suffered at Miami…had to be two years back.
Good stuff
In all of my mocks of the last two years, I have always included a safety. We need a big, athletic safety who can play man coverage, but is big and strong enough to matchup against TEs. Basically, a Jon McGraw replacement. Depth at the safety position is a big concern with me, and if we have to rely on guys like McGraw and Sabby, we aren’t going to be sniffing any championships.
Berry and Lewis both seem to be better zone guys and I like the progress of Donald Washington, but we need another body in there. I’m still holding out hope that Jalil Brown can make it at CB, because I really liked him coming out of college.
We also need to add another backup interior lineman who can play G/C. Lilja can play both guard positions and is an above-average backup if we move Albert in to LG.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Thanks stags
I may be higher on Fleener than most, but I think I see some positives that could really help this team and I think he will be a great NFL player. The first thing I always look at with TEs is size. You want them to be at least 6’3" but optimal is 6’5" – 6’6" and at least 240 lbs., with optimal around 250). Fleener is 6’6" 248, and I think he has the frame to be 260. He needs to add about 10 lbs of muscle, but I think he can do it. The next thing I look at is hands. Third, I look at speed and athleticism. These are those measurables that are not “teachable” and Fleener has those.
Most college receivers aren’t great route runners, because there just isn’t enough time to coach them and the defensive backs are generally so poor in college that you can get away with sloppy route running. I think Fleener is above average in this category, probably attributable to good coaching. Haley (who I think will be retained) is a route-running technician and will fix any flaws Fleener has in this area.
As for blocking, I would say Fleener is average to below-average compared with other TEs in this class, but I think he has the athleticism and the frame to be a good blocker, with proper dedication and coaching, as well as adding weight.
Another positive with Fleener is that he runs a pro-style offense with an advanced route tree, which will make the transition into the NFL that much smoother for him.
Basically I look at Fleener as the perfect complement to Moeaki (complete TE) and Leonard Pope (better blocker than receiver, RZ threat with his size). I also think in today’s game it is essential to success to have at least two good TEs and gives you an advantage in matchups and gameplanning.
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
I honestly would love it if we can get a....
strong LT with the first pick in this draft and move Albert to LG. I really feel our line would be damn near set for quite sometime. RT I feel needs to be addressed and will be through one of three ways. Draft, FA, already on the team just still developing.
That is what I am thinking as well, and the poll agrees with this sentiment as well
Nicknames I have coined:
Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'
Got the same problem after Chipotle, damn you delicious Chipotle, damn you straight to hell
"Why are all these people here? There are too many people on this earth. We need a new plague…"
-Dwight Schrute
Yes but chiptole is delicious enough to make it worth the bulk release.
Foxtrot Alpha November - Sierra Hotel Oscar Tango!
Nick makes a lot of sense.....except I would nock all priorities down one notch and put a QB at the top of the list.
One who is highly skilled and able to learn and progress. It will take a year so no time like present to get started.
"You talkin' to me? You TALKIN' to me ?" - Travis Bickle
With as many comments that this thread has received...
How in the world is there only 6 Rec’s? Come people show some appreciation for a post that has started the discussion about the draft already!
I really love 2 players that I'd love to see the Chiefs draft, both in the Pac 12. Doubt they get both, or even one of these guys.
1. Matt Barkley – I really like Matt Barkley’s ability to put the ball in the right spot on the deep ball. He really throws a great fade route and the ball is often on the outside shoulder of the wide receiver. Also I love the fact that he checks the ball down to his backs and tight end or throwing the ball away if no one is open instead of trying to force a ball down the field. He plays smart, doesn’t take stupid sacks, and has very good mobility. And aside from Matt Kahlil, his offensive line, and WR corp aside from Robert Woods is terrible.
2. Coby Fleener – Not much of a blocking tight end, but he’s an excellent pass catcher. He runs great routes and has phenomenal hands.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Nov 30, 2011 8:46 PM CST reply actions
Pretty sure USC's WRs are not terrible beyond Woods
Kalil looks to be a stud though
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Nov 30, 2011 10:10 PM CST up reply actions
Reality,
is that with the multiple needs we have, we just can’t be moving up and paying for it with picks that we need so badly. The possibility exists that we might be able to get Reiff with our 1st rd pick. I would venture to say that Luck, Barkley, Jones and griffin will be gone along with Kalil and Martin. As I like Iowa and Wisconsin for Off linemen I have been thinking if we could get Reiff in the first, and possibly Weeden and Wagner in the 2nd and 3rd, we would have our off fixed for awhile without giving any picks up. And we would have 4 or 5 picks left to shore up the defence. Weeden is the joker, So far i have really liked what I have seen and we have Jones and Weeden playing head to head this Saturday, so let’s take a good look at him and see if he suits your fancy.
Like that
not sure of the actual math, but Reiff or a Tackle with a QB such as Weeden later frees up some good picks for the OL
by Steve_Chiefs on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 PM CST up reply actions
Isn't Weeden 28 though?
I mean, I see the wisdom in line first, but it’d be a shame to grab a QB who’s 30 by the time he’s ready to contribute effectively…
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Seth, have you had occasion to see Weeden play?
He looks more steady and calm in the pocket than Cassel and has a much stronger and more accurate arm. I think he could come in and start at the git go. Give him a look this Saturday if you can get the game up north. If we get a left and right tackle in the draft who can protect him we would be pretty well set on the offence for 4 or more years. After that time we will be having to start reloading the skill positions again anyway. We have a 2 or 3 year window for getting to the Super Bowl. Pioli’s ineptness has set us back a couple of years and I feel that the draft this year is make or break. If we don’t have a great class this year and get the major holes filled it will be for naught as the window isn’t going to stay open forever. You see what has happened to SD. They have screwed the pooch and their window has closed with this group of players. Last year should have been their year, but a cheap owner let 2 of his best players set it out for half the season and by the time they got back to game shape the season was gone.
I haven't, so the info is greatly appreciated
If he would indeed be ready to start from the get-go, then age isn’t as much of an issue.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
SD is indeed a fascinating example
Of watching a window scream shut. Although I’d argue that their window stayed open for over half a decade, so hopefully we’ve got some time left.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
It depends upon the round in which he's taken
If it is 2nd (or as some project, 3rd) then I think age isn’t as much of a concern, as you often see players that age traded for those picks. As a first, to me, his age is a concern.
I think the guy is really smooth and as unflappable as they come. For a pro-style offense, I think he’s ideal.
Still, RG3 and Russell Wilson are my guys.
The difference is those players that are traded from one NFL team to the other know the game
They know the speed, how to do their job, etc. Weeden doesn’t know ANY of that, and you will likely be looking at a few years of him catching up to speed
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 1, 2011 9:52 AM CST up reply actions
I understand
It isn’t always a truism either. I think Weeden, in the right situation, has one tough year, then he goes.
Depending how the draft falls, mainly in the first
If we miss out on Luck/RGIII then in the third or later I wouldn’t hate Weeden too much I suppose, I don’t see him as an answer to the QB position and that is what we need.
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 1, 2011 10:54 AM CST up reply actions
They don't take my calls anymore..
One night out on the town and all the sudden I’m not part of the ‘right 53’? I mean WTF
I don't start arguments, I provoke thinking. -Me
Alameda Ta’amu NT/DE 2012 Draftee
by BAMFSpecialOps on Dec 1, 2011 11:59 PM CST up reply actions
I think the injury to Lilja is preventing this, isn't it?
He’s going at LG again this game, I believe. The good news is he held his own last game at the position.
But yeah, it’d be nice to see him at the position we (I assume) drafted him for.
I love my wife, my kids, and the Chiefs. In that order. Except on game days.
I am the Master of Hyperenthetical Asiditry (you know, like this. Only more)
Draft Pick 2012
Please be aware that this week will help us move closer to determining when the Chiefs pick. Win vs Chicago and they will probably have 6-7 wins-drafting 9-15. Lose and they will be picking from 4-10.
If they draft 9-15- They should be able to pick the 2-3 best tackle, or a guard that is the best prospect since Steve Hutchinson. Reiff or Martin or DeCastro. If they are closer to 15, there are some incredible junior LBs that may declare-Keckly, Teo or Burfict.
If they draft 4-They can have a shot at Barlkey either by a trade up or if StL, Minn and Carolina are ahead of us they will pick Khalil, Claiborne and Blackmon leaving us with the choice of Barkley or Griffin.
If they draft 5-8 They should have a decision between Martin from Stanford or Reiff from Iowa.
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