3 Out Of 4 KC Chiefs Fans Approve Of Kyle Orton Move
by Joel Thorman on Nov 24, 2011 9:01 AM CST
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PrintThe Kansas City Chiefs shook things up on Thanksgiving weekend when they acquired Kyle Orton off the waiver wire following his release from the Denver Broncos. Orton now enters a Chiefs quarterback group that includes Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi (with Matt Cassel on IR).
The most simple way to look at this, in my mind, is whether Orton is an upgrade over Palko. Many of us think that's the case so it's no surprise to see the final results of our approval poll on the Orton move.
With about 2,700 votes in, 76 percent of our readers approved of the move to acquire Orton. 11 percent do not approve of the move 11 percent responded they weren't sure yet.
That's about what I expected. The vibe I've gotten from the fan base, which our poll supports, is that there are far more Chiefs fans who think this is the best move for the team right now.
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Yeah, im in the same boat.. I'm hoping this means they are going to explore the QB position this offseason and it's an open competition.
poop
by Kuhmmish on Nov 24, 2011 9:13 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
^^^This
A lot of people are looking at this thinking it is a last ditch effort for the season or that the front office thinks Orton can be the savior. I think it’s more about the beginnings of a revamp at the entire QB depth chart. Draft a QB in the first round and either send Cassel packing or have a four quarterback competition with Cassel, Orton, Stanzi, and the rookie, and keep the best three going into next season.
by old_school on Nov 24, 2011 9:47 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Orton's not a long term answer for Kansas City ...
… just as he wasn’t for Denver. I’m honestly not sure whether or not he’s even an upgrade over Palko, who, other than the interceptions, looked decent against New England.
I’ll give you a background on me here. I’m a Broncos fan, but I actually like the Chiefs (any weekend they’re not playing Denver anyway) too. From my perspective, the Chiefs have put together a talented team, but under a questionable coach and they’ve not had a good quarterback in a while.
Honestly, I think the best thing Kyle Orton can do for the Chiefs is put them in a spot to land Landry Jones or Matt Barkley. Kyle’s a good enough quarterback, but he can’t carry a team. He’ll be a practice stud—he’s likely to win any “competition” you guys have for QB next year—but he will inevitably choke under pressure.
I hope he does well for KC, especially against Oakland, I really do. But I don’t think he will.
We don't need him to carry us
We need a damn QB to move these chains, finish drives, and give our D a damn break. He’s got more weapons now than he’s ever had. I like the spot he’s in
You know, I second most of what you're saying. But I have my concerns over canning Haley...if we can Haley.
Our biggest problem, as far as coaching goes, is Haley is exactly what he says he hates: a Yo-yo. When he arrived in ‘09, one of his favorite sayings was “be the same player every day.” However, he’s struggled with some of his decision making, both in-game and with regard to his staff…
I’ve come to the conclusion that we hired the man about one to two years earlier than we should have (in terms of his head-coaching development) and that we’re watching him test and keep/throw whatever coaching concepts he thought he had.
Sort of like Mangini, really. I think that he would make a much, much better head coach now than he did at either of his last two stops because he’s had time to reflect—“Am I Belichick? What do I beleive winning football is? How do I want to talk to this player/address this issue?”. Eventually, Mangini wiill get another crack at it and I think he’ll be better for that.
If memory serves me, that stuff really began to click with him during his last season in Cleveland. Of course, his craptacular record etc got him fired…maybe too soon.
I worry that Haley will be exactly the same way—that the success in ‘10 and the epic fail in ’11 will make him a better coach in the long run—but that he’ll bring that success to some other club, while we’re set back another 2-3 years because someone else will come in and want to do things their way.
Here’s hoping that his learning curve is as steep as I suspect it is….I could be wrong of course (about all of this). But I hope not.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 24, 2011 10:33 AM CST up reply actions
Orton can be a star.
Denver was in transition the last few years, they were trying to find their identity. Orton can be successful with the right play calling. Denver made a mistake giving up on Orton.
is that there are far more Chiefs fans who think this is the best move for the team right now.
Best might be a stretch. Definitely a good move, though.
I'd disagree
I’d say Orton is the best QB option for the team right now. Who is better?
by Joel Thorman on Nov 24, 2011 9:16 AM CST up reply actions
completely agree
Orton is a (slight) upgrade from Cassel anyway so getting a free upgrade at QB is always welcome.
In my ideal world, we release Cassel and Palko at the end of the year and go into next year with Orton as the starter. Draft whichever QB is available to us in the 1st round (Barkley or RG3, preferably RG3 – he’s a more accurate Newton and that’s working out pretty well for Carolina).
So next year’s depth chart would be Orton → RG3 → Stanzi until Griffin is ready to take the reigns depending on how the season goes.
how about do whatever it takes to get Luck instead
Luck is GOING to be the best qb in that class.People need to understand that.
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 24, 2011 8:44 PM CST up reply actions
Luck will be a Colt.
And I’m even more excited about RG3 than Luck.
So, fingers crossed.
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 10:35 PM CST up reply actions
RG3 has bust written all over him
Luck WILL be better ,mark my words on that
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 24, 2011 10:53 PM CST up reply actions
Haha says you.
Bold prediction, that the unquestioned #1 prospect will turn out better than the small school sleeper.
What exactly is written all over Griffin about being a bust? Please enlighten me.
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 11:05 PM CST up reply actions
spread offense number 1
he also is a 2 progression qb.What I mean is,after his 2nd read he takes off and runs instead of going to his 3rd read.If he does that in the NFL,he will get killed.Baylor is in the big 12 so you really can’t call them a small school.He also doesn’t have ideal height(barely 6’2) it is the same concern I have about Barkley.He also had a serious knee injury in college.I like him a lot better than Landry Jones.I still like Barkly better because he plays in a pro style offense
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 24, 2011 11:36 PM CST up reply actions
he's 50/50
If he is a bust I wouldn’t be shocked.If he succeeds I wouldn’t be suprised. He is the biggest boom/bust prospect in the draft.He won’t be better than Luck.That I can guarantee
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 25, 2011 1:49 AM CST up reply actions
I still say Stanzi
Although its because I consider Orton and Cassel to be on par with each other, and Stanzi above Cassel.
So due to the transitive property he’s the best QB option we’ve got.
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Nov 24, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
I consider Orton slightly above Cassel, because Orton can locate his passes correctly--he's more fundamentally sound as a pocket QB.
Or at least, moreso than Matt.
Other than that, I’m all for stopping in Stanzi City for the last quarter/eighth of the season, if Orton doesn’t help our offense to click more effectively.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 24, 2011 10:36 AM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Ah but Orton has zero mobility
He needs a clean pocket moreso then Cassel did, because he can’t make plays with his legs.
He’s a better pocket passer, I agree, but what happens when the pocket isn’t there?
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Nov 24, 2011 7:06 PM CST up reply actions
So why is Palco and probably Orton starting over the guy?
Maybe it is because he is NOT the answer at QB
In nomeni parti et fili spiritus sancti
by saints_chiefsfan1979 on Nov 24, 2011 10:54 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, not saying he's all-world or anything
But for Week 12, you could do a lot worse.
by Joel Thorman on Nov 24, 2011 9:45 AM CST up reply actions
As long as this isn't Pioli's answer to the QB issue
I’m cool with it. Better than Palko anyway.
by SCKSChief on Nov 24, 2011 9:57 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I think thats what most of us are thinking.
We still need to address our QB situation this offseason.
I doubt this is the answer. It's just another option on the exam (so to speak).
We have to get another GOOD arm in next year’s draft. Have a four-passer throwdown, best three stay on the squad. Best #1 gets to be the #1.
Cassel’s an easy cut next year…just as easy as Orton was.
/shrugs
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 24, 2011 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
This move doesnt only improve us at QB
It takes away the Bears getting him,which we play in 2 weeks. Rumor has it that they were going after him. Also, he gives us insight to the Broncos. Killed a lot of birds with this stone
by TheScreenName on Nov 24, 2011 10:58 AM CST up reply actions
David Garrard?
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Nov 24, 2011 10:08 AM CST up reply actions
I was joking
Jeez chill out
Me and Matt Cassel just - you up, dog!
by ChiefWarPaint on Nov 24, 2011 7:04 PM CST up reply actions
The move is done-the real question is..
to see if we can use Orton’s throwing strengths down-field. Muir are u listening-wake up, throw it down the middle or over the top! I am thankful to be a chiefs fan!
We can only hope
that it was Cassel and Palko’s fault that Muir couldn’t call deep passes.
by old_school on Nov 24, 2011 9:50 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
Somehow, I see a shakeup (again) on the offense.
If we’re looking for continuity….why not try this?
-Zorn as offensive coordinator. (Only man to call plays to QB).
-Muir as offensive line coach/“senior offensive assistant” (our way of saying “It’s not a demotion Bill…it’s us, not you, baby.”)
-Sirianni as QB coach
-Palko as player/coach, OR offensive QC.
-Weigmann as offensive QC, if Palko’s not interested.
Why do this, you ask? Especially since it looks like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic?
1. Same terminology in system but a fresh set of eyes calling plays
2. Aces in their Places (Muir needs to focus on line, they miss his old ass. Sirianni has been the QB’s gofer before, and he’s an old college wideout. Good buffer between Zorn and Haley and QB. And Zorn can stlll work with passers during the week, but can outsource some of the work to a man who’s already been a de facto QB coach for this team before).
3. Get someone who has scanned the field and thrown a ball, or even caught a pass, on the headset. If Haley isn’t going to own this offense like McCarthy or Payton do, he needs to hire someone with a similar mindset.
What does anyone else think? (Besides the fact that I probably should have done this in a Fanpost, lol)?
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 24, 2011 10:51 AM CST up reply actions
honeslty this is the best move dor the chiefs
We pay nothing for this guy and worst case scenario we have a better back up qb than cassel could ever be. I really think he is going to work out he’s a drop back passer which is awsome cuz we got 4 excellent recievers when tony comes back and an even better run game hello play action. I see us balling out for a long time if this works. Orton has never in his life had so many options.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Nov 24, 2011 9:58 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Yes, but Scott P. has to work....
some magic next year to get Orton under contract when our injured weapons are back on the field.
by theSaukchief69 on Nov 24, 2011 10:00 AM CST reply actions
true and thats my whole thoughts about orton making the move here
Here he can honestly have a good qb gig. Haley worked wonders with a pure drop back passer and two great recievers and a decent run game in az. Now you have potentially 5 great recievers with the triple bz and dexter and tony next year. If orton goes to chicago he instantly becomes a back up next year when cutler comes back. This is a major opt that he has here based off the chiefs drafting tendances for the last 40 something years. We have something special right now I’m really believing in this move. He’s no montana but he could be atleast our trent dilfer.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Nov 24, 2011 10:08 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
2 great receivers in AZ and 5 here?
So Breaston counts here, but not there?
And I’m having trouble finding the 5th great receiver on our roster…
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 11:30 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
I see a move to OC for Zorn coming up soon.
With qb options like we have never had before, time to put the old seachicken to work and make this offense move like Cam Cameron used to do.
by theSaukchief69 on Nov 24, 2011 10:02 AM CST reply actions
not while haley's in town
He doesn’t want an OC with ideas or strategy of his own
by SillyHatDay on Nov 24, 2011 10:09 AM CST up reply actions
Haley does seem to example a quashing of originality of playcalling...
but me thinks this is a result of a limited qb (execution) that is now on the ir.
by theSaukchief69 on Nov 24, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
OC with ideas and playcalling abilities
is exactly what we need the most. that and for Haley to give whoever total control of it.
Never argue with an Idiot...... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
sometimes I wonder how they would do that chalk outline, if you pushed someone into a tree chipper.
not while Haley is in town
he doesn’t want an OC with their own ideas or strategy
by SillyHatDay on Nov 24, 2011 10:13 AM CST up reply actions
Do we know that for sure?
He’s also on record as saying he likes disagreement in his coaches, because it creates a healthy environment for new ideas.
Granted, that was when he first came, and when Weis arrived….so it could be a sales pitch to the media. But he DID hire Zorn with no prior connection…
Maybe it’s been more on the limits of our passer, rather than the stubbornness of the coach…OR Haley could be too stubborn to evolve his system with new ideas.
Just throwing this out there.
"I’m still waiting to get my first sympathy card about all this. Nobody else cares that we lost our quarterback. They’re just out there waiting to kick our butt. So you can be an ostrich and keep your head in the sand, or you can realize we’ve suffered a dramatic injury here and we can’t just fall down and let everybody kick us in the face."
-Bill Muir
by go_saleaumua on Nov 24, 2011 10:56 AM CST up reply actions
we just need to get vertical and orton can
Throw all day.
FOUR F'S FIND UM FEEL UM FUGUM FORGET UM.
by sexassassin on Nov 24, 2011 10:10 AM CST via mobile reply actions
that's what she said...
"The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his way" Josh Billings
Kansas City Chiefs - 2020 Team of the Decade
AP should interview Lenny D. and get his take on this issue...
Purdue connections aside-the vertical game is something that has been missing for quite some time (since the TG era).
by theSaukchief69 on Nov 24, 2011 10:19 AM CST reply actions
Orton has a good arm, good vision and good play action. Unfortunately he has slow feet.
He needs more time than most QBs when plays break down due to his slow feet. He has a good attitude and will be a good mentor for a young QB. Hopefully his 2011 propensity for turnovers was just an aberation, he has a good track record of protecting the ball over the years.
For better or worse he has been a placeholder most of his career, just good enough to create interest but never pans out to be more than a tease. He will make an excellent backup, probably like Earl Morral was for Bob Griese.
BTW, I am a devout Broncos fan but I have many cousins from the KC area who are Chiefs fans so I want their team to be fun to cheer for. Plus, I want the entire AFC West to return to relevance.
I agree, Larsen shouldn’t get any bigger. I am getting tired of his bone crushing hits knocking the pixels off my TV, once they fall to the floor they are very hard to find.
my thoughts
I just think it may be too late to matter in making this year’s playoff race. i think with a whole year of orton we could be leading the division right now, but he’ll only have what 4 games to play this year? and with limited knowledge of the offense?
really the best positive i can get from this is that he’d be a good mentor for a young qb, but who knows if he stays for next season
I may be a smart ass, but at least I'm not a donkey
I sooooooooo wish I was a fly on the wall the moment he enters that locker room.
Thought food: if Joe Sacco is fired, Sylvain Lefebvre will be the Avs' new head coach. Think about it.
The 2011-2012 Colorado Avalanche: there will be blood and there will be wins.
"God I'm excited for those two to fail miserably." - SBNation writer Andrew Sharp on Josh McDaniels and Tim Tebow.
The Number Zero, for everything but mathematics. Blood and Thunder Record: 8-10-1 (Total Record: 9-14-1)
by Tempestuous Binary on Nov 24, 2011 10:38 AM CST reply actions
Opens up a question
Would it be that bad of an idea to keep Orton, draft a QB, Trade Cassel to a team maybe for like a 4th round pic and overall save some cap room? I would think that a team like Dallas, NY Giants, or Chicago would protect themselves a little bit and grab a good backup which Cassel could be in case their starter goes down. Food for thought on Turkey Day!
Nope, not a bad idea.
That’s the best plan in my book.
Just not so sure that Orton will stick around just to keep the seat warm for the new guy if he has the chance to get a real gig somewhere else.
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 11:37 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The 11% that voted that they did not agree...
are Broncos, Cowboys, and Bears fans.
Go Chiefs!!!!
Bronco fan here
Orton was mentally checked out this year. The Fans constantly calling for Tebow got to his head. He’s an alright QB, has a better arm than Matt Cassel and is more accurate. I think a scenery change will do him some good, and is a good fit for the offense Todd Haley has set up.
In an open competition Orton should beat out Cassel and is fairly young still (29 years old) so this was a good move by KC
MOZGOD Member #35
Orton vs. Cassel
I’m not sure about all of this, “dump Cassel for Orton” stuff. I call it an even swap at best. The difference would be Cassel’s familiarity with the system and players, but it doesn’t stop there. Cassel proved last year that he can pick apart a defense, if he has time – that was with only Bowe as true target for big plays. Now he has Breaston and Baldwin to add into the mix.The real move starts with the O-Line. In all of the losses this year, the common element has been poor O-line play… No pass protection, no holes for the running game (that includes the 2 games we had Charles), and too many penalties have killed drives. Charles struggled when we had him – remember, the Chiefs were blown out both games!Hes’ an exceptional RB, but he can’t do it by himself – that’s how he got hurt. I say, keep Cassel, Orton (if he’ll stay), and Stanzi. Upgrade the damn offensive line!
by Chief's Country on Nov 24, 2011 11:10 AM CST reply actions 1 recs
Charles was about to blow apart the Lions defense before he blew out his knee
So it really isn’t about run blocking during that game perse… and the Bills game the problem was that we shied away from the run game, and went to air it out. The Lions game we began to right the ship with a heavy dose of run (6 straight run plays then Charles got injured on a big run).
Go Chiefs!!!!
Cassel has NEVER "picked apart" a defense.
That is ridiculous.
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 11:39 AM CST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
And Charles did not struggle!
He averaged 5.6 YPC in game one and had 2 carries for 27 yards on game two before tearing his ACL. In what universe is that struggling?
The problem is that Cassel can’t run an offense of do anything smoothly that good QBs are supposed to do.
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 11:42 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
The truth about Cassel.
It is the OC and the head Coaches job is to look at the strenghts and weaknesses of the QB and come up with a game plan. For me and the Cassel supporters we don’t believe
KC has come up with a game plan for Cassel. Run, Run ,Pass is playing not to lose,
that is not a good game plan.
Some of us see potential in Cassel, we could be wrong. We want to see him get a fair opportunity before we release or trade him.
If your not a Cassel supporter, what if your wrong, wouldn’t it suck if Cassel went to another team and won a Super Bowl? I would like to bring Orton back next year and let Cassel and Orton compete for the QB job.
I hate the move more now
Kyle freaking Orton a Chef now… great.
Thank you Pioli for giving us the likes of Cassel, Orton, Palko, and Stanzi.
Look at those names again. Not much different then…
Huard, Croyle Thigpen
That just screams SUCK to me. All of them.
This big FYOU goes to Scott Pioli. Tjax,Brich,Belcher, all the active TE's. All active RB <--- stink , they stink. And your Qb are the worst in the NFL.
Give me Huard and Thigpen back.
Seriously.
by bamachief5558 on Nov 24, 2011 10:36 PM CST up reply actions
Orton was 4th in the NFL is passing yards in 2010
Huard, Croyle of Thigpen ever do that?
Jared Allen wouldn't have fit the 3-4 anyway...
Mixed feelings on this one.
If we lose this Sunday, which the odds are we will, it will put us at 4-7. We would still have to win out, to even have a shot at winning the division, and there defintely isn’t a Wild Card coming out of The AFC West. Wit our shedule , I just don’t see it happening, and I don’t think Kyle Orton is gonna ride in, like my hero, John Wayne, and save the day. I also don’t know if the team will even be able to get a fair evaluation of him, and how well he will fit with what this team wants to do moving forward, with the limited games left, and it taking at least a couple of games, to comprehend the system.
I don’t know what the Cassel contract status is, or how much guaranteed money they still owe him, but I would have to think there is no way both Orton and Cassel will be in training camp, next season, not with Orton being a Free Agent at the end of the season. I don’t know what Piol.promised him, if anything, but an auditioning job, for us, or another team. As I stated in Tex’s post, I see Orton and Cassel as pretty much equals, as far as where they rate in the QB hierarchy.
So, maybe I don’t have mixed feelings, afterall. Play Palko, until we lose another game or two, then let Stanzi get some experience, and finish out the season. It’s time to admit, we are playing for next season, and maybe beyond. No, the move really doesn’t make a helluva lot of sense! So the mixed feelings are now gone!
There once was a man from Nantucket......Nevermind.
Cassel supporter
I have been a Cassel supporter since he got with the team, but after watching him play this year it is painfully obvious that he is not the solution to our problems. I constantly look at our defense, and really think that we are a good team with the injuries that we have, and a great offense without them. I can’t remember as a Chief fan the last time a quarterback was a consistant deep threat for our team. Trent was the last viable option for us in this aspect. Cassel just has not progressed to go through his reads on the field well enough and has happy feet. Our O line is servicable. It comes down to the quarterback to spot reads and to react to them accordingly. I really do think that this is a good move for Orton’s career. Interestingly I have looked at four different mocks, and all of them have us going different directions, with only one going the QB route. I do know one thing that Orton will be be baptised under fire. I can already see one bad quarter and I will have to hear these ridiculous crys for Stanzi. There is a good reason he has been inactive all year.
by Kimberly Brathuhn on Nov 25, 2011 8:56 AM CST reply actions
Orton is better.
I’ve also tried to stay positive on Cassel, but he isn’t progressing. He panics, gives up on plays, and doesn’t take chances when he should. Cassel is gutless. He’s a borderline starter, or solid backup.
I hope Orton shows us what a decent QB can do with this group of WR’s (and McCluster.)
Jared Allen wouldn't have fit the 3-4 anyway...
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